Average wage in Swindon has dropped by a fifth

Swindon Advertiser: Members of the GMB Union during a protest in 2012 outside the Next Store in Swindon over low pay for its staff Members of the GMB Union during a protest in 2012 outside the Next Store in Swindon over low pay for its staff

WAGES in Swindon have been hit hardest by the recession according to GMB, Britain’s General Union, as new figures show the real value of average earnings has fallen by more than 20 per cent since 2008.

The town was one of 20 that saw the amount its residents’ pay packet could buy drop sharply in the past five years, far above the national average of 13.4 per cent.

The figures were based on the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings, which provided data from 2008 to 2013.

Overall nationally, wages rose by an average of four per cent, but this was set against a 17.8 per cent inflation rate between April 2008 and November 2013.

In contrast, average wages in Swindon fell during this period by 3.1 per cent, from £26,100 to £25,297.

The worst-affected area during the recession was Hammersmith and Fulham, where the value of earnings plummeted by almost 50 per cent, as the average wage fell dramatically from £65,452 to £44,963.

The only area in the UK to see any benefit to wages over the last five years was Moray in Scotland, which had a one per cent increase.

Paul Kenny, GMB general secretary, said: “These alarming figures show how hard-pressed working people across the UK are struggling to pay their bills after years of wage decline and attacks on the living standards of families throughout the land.

“Working people deserve and need a decent pay rise to halt the drop in living standards.”

Justin Tomlinson, MP for North Swindon, said the figures were skewed against a recent rise in employment, particularly in the retail sector, which would bring the average wage down.

He said: “There has been a massive increase in employment in Swindon. Most of those new jobs have been in retail centres that have opened. It isn’t that people’s wages have decreased, just that the new jobs have a slightly lower average wage.

“Swindon has seen one of the fastest rates of growth in start-up businesses and new jobs, and the town has shown it can recover from economic challenges.

“As this takes a grip we will start to see average wages rising. Over the last 12 months, youth unemployment in North Swindon has fallen by 23.1 per cent. The dramatic fall in youth unemployment will bring down the average wage as they take their first step on the career ladder.

“In 2008, the two areas hardest hit by the crash was financial services and manufacturing. Since then we have seen businesses like Honda coming back to where they were before the recession, and financial services are recovering very well. It is those jobs which will bring the figure back up.

“As the economy takes grip the corporate jobs start to flow in and average wages will rise quicker.

“The key for us is to make sure Swindon continues to attract new jobs and start up businesses, and that we share that growth among all our residents.”

Comments (16)

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6:37am Tue 31 Dec 13

John~R says...

Misleading headline.

The details show the average wage dropped by 3.1%.
Misleading headline. The details show the average wage dropped by 3.1%. John~R

9:15am Tue 31 Dec 13

LordAshOfTheBrake says...

Would have been good to see the employment rates for the same period too!

Some interesting comments especially from Thomlinson....

Quote "In 2008, the two areas hardest hit by the crash was financial services and manufacturing. Since then we have seen businesses like Honda coming back to where they were before the recession"......

No acknowledgement that Honda have let a lot of people go during the last 5 years, so in reality their business has decreased from peak.

Quote "Swindon has seen one of the fastest rates of growth in start-up businesses and new jobs, and the town has shown it can recover from economic challenges"

In my view the town hasn't shown anything yet, a few large chains have opened new stores. How many of those startup's turn out to be long term viable business's. Also note the lack of name dropping, so what are these companies.

Quote "It isn’t that people’s wages have decreased, just that the new jobs have a slightly lower average wage".

Whilst we have the ridiculous working tax credits system, employers will continue to pay low wages knowing that the government tops up employee pay essentially giving their business a subsidy.
Would have been good to see the employment rates for the same period too! Some interesting comments especially from Thomlinson.... Quote "In 2008, the two areas hardest hit by the crash was financial services and manufacturing. Since then we have seen businesses like Honda coming back to where they were before the recession"...... No acknowledgement that Honda have let a lot of people go during the last 5 years, so in reality their business has decreased from peak. Quote "Swindon has seen one of the fastest rates of growth in start-up businesses and new jobs, and the town has shown it can recover from economic challenges" In my view the town hasn't shown anything yet, a few large chains have opened new stores. How many of those startup's turn out to be long term viable business's. Also note the lack of name dropping, so what are these companies. Quote "It isn’t that people’s wages have decreased, just that the new jobs have a slightly lower average wage". Whilst we have the ridiculous working tax credits system, employers will continue to pay low wages knowing that the government tops up employee pay essentially giving their business a subsidy. LordAshOfTheBrake

11:09am Tue 31 Dec 13

Davey Gravey says...

Tomlinson's comments beggar belief. Could he dress it up any more?

Those people struggling on minimum wages,those in part time work desperate to get full time jobs, the young people who cannot get anything, the hard working families having less and less in the bank each month, etc,etc will not fall for such rubbish.

Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon.
Yet, house building and growth of our over filled and struggling town continues.
Tomlinson's comments beggar belief. Could he dress it up any more? Those people struggling on minimum wages,those in part time work desperate to get full time jobs, the young people who cannot get anything, the hard working families having less and less in the bank each month, etc,etc will not fall for such rubbish. Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon. Yet, house building and growth of our over filled and struggling town continues. Davey Gravey

12:48pm Tue 31 Dec 13

RichardR1 says...

Reality is that companies exploit circumstances, as do employees. In the end I suppose the employer now has regained the upper hand from the days when the unions destroyed our economy.

The working tax credit system does distort the market place, but I suspect removing it would not have a positive impact on jobs because the number of people looking for jobs would not alter in itself.

It is also true to say that different industries have different wage levels and it has always been so, therefore Justin Tomlison's comments, whilst some feel may be a little naff perhaps he makes a valid point. You can't compare apples with oranges.
Reality is that companies exploit circumstances, as do employees. In the end I suppose the employer now has regained the upper hand from the days when the unions destroyed our economy. The working tax credit system does distort the market place, but I suspect removing it would not have a positive impact on jobs because the number of people looking for jobs would not alter in itself. It is also true to say that different industries have different wage levels and it has always been so, therefore Justin Tomlison's comments, whilst some feel may be a little naff perhaps he makes a valid point. You can't compare apples with oranges. RichardR1

2:27pm Tue 31 Dec 13

faatmaan says...

Old well paid jobs replaced by minimum wage retail jobs, that's real progress for the town. When nobody can afford to shop due to poverty,these companies will ten move on or downsize, its a phoney move by the government to make things look better than they are.
Old well paid jobs replaced by minimum wage retail jobs, that's real progress for the town. When nobody can afford to shop due to poverty,these companies will ten move on or downsize, its a phoney move by the government to make things look better than they are. faatmaan

2:28pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Ringer says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Tomlinson's comments beggar belief. Could he dress it up any more?

Those people struggling on minimum wages,those in part time work desperate to get full time jobs, the young people who cannot get anything, the hard working families having less and less in the bank each month, etc,etc will not fall for such rubbish.

Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon.
Yet, house building and growth of our over filled and struggling town continues.
The real reason so many working people are 'out of pocket' is because of the punitive level of Income Tax, NI, Council Tax, VAT and all the other myriad taxes we're forced to pay, largely just to fund and sustain those who contribute absolutely nothing.

The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Tomlinson's comments beggar belief. Could he dress it up any more? Those people struggling on minimum wages,those in part time work desperate to get full time jobs, the young people who cannot get anything, the hard working families having less and less in the bank each month, etc,etc will not fall for such rubbish. Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon. Yet, house building and growth of our over filled and struggling town continues.[/p][/quote]The real reason so many working people are 'out of pocket' is because of the punitive level of Income Tax, NI, Council Tax, VAT and all the other myriad taxes we're forced to pay, largely just to fund and sustain those who contribute absolutely nothing. The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour. Ringer

2:53pm Tue 31 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

""""LordAshOfTheBrak
e says...
Whilst we have the ridiculous working tax credits system, employers will continue to pay low wages knowing that the government tops up employee pay essentially giving their business a subsidy.""""

So what happens if you take it away and they have to pay higher wages, presumably prices will go up to cover the higher wages then and fuel inflation?

""""Davey Gravey says..
Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon"""

Do you think that might have something to do with Swindon being the teen pregnancy capital of Europe not that long ago, it is hardly surprising that we have that trend for the u25's not that it would stop politicians from using it to beat people with!

"Ringer says...
The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour.""

Completely agree, if you want something in life, go out and earn it instead of expecting others to constantly bail you out and that includes having kids, your number one responsibility is to them, so if you cant provide for them, be more responsible and dont have them until you can. They are not a right the are a privelidge but I doubt many will agree with me, mainly because they are on endless benefits paid for by others.
""""LordAshOfTheBrak e says... Whilst we have the ridiculous working tax credits system, employers will continue to pay low wages knowing that the government tops up employee pay essentially giving their business a subsidy."""" So what happens if you take it away and they have to pay higher wages, presumably prices will go up to cover the higher wages then and fuel inflation? """"Davey Gravey says.. Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon""" Do you think that might have something to do with Swindon being the teen pregnancy capital of Europe not that long ago, it is hardly surprising that we have that trend for the u25's not that it would stop politicians from using it to beat people with! "Ringer says... The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour."" Completely agree, if you want something in life, go out and earn it instead of expecting others to constantly bail you out and that includes having kids, your number one responsibility is to them, so if you cant provide for them, be more responsible and dont have them until you can. They are not a right the are a privelidge but I doubt many will agree with me, mainly because they are on endless benefits paid for by others. house on the hill

3:09pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Ringer says...

@faatmaan:


Old well paid jobs replaced by minimum wage retail jobs, that's real progress for the town.


This just is not true.

People are, generally, worth the level of salary that their abilities, skills and education can command. People who have earned £50kpa doing a certain job do not tend to go into £18kpa town centre retail work.

Equally, those who have done cleaning jobs all their lives are unlikely to suddenly move into £50kpa jobs at any point.
@faatmaan: [quote] Old well paid jobs replaced by minimum wage retail jobs, that's real progress for the town. [/quote] This just is not true. People are, generally, worth the level of salary that their abilities, skills and education can command. People who have earned £50kpa doing a certain job do not tend to go into £18kpa town centre retail work. Equally, those who have done cleaning jobs all their lives are unlikely to suddenly move into £50kpa jobs at any point. Ringer

4:48pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Davey Gravey says...

Ringer wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Tomlinson's comments beggar belief. Could he dress it up any more?

Those people struggling on minimum wages,those in part time work desperate to get full time jobs, the young people who cannot get anything, the hard working families having less and less in the bank each month, etc,etc will not fall for such rubbish.

Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon.
Yet, house building and growth of our over filled and struggling town continues.
The real reason so many working people are 'out of pocket' is because of the punitive level of Income Tax, NI, Council Tax, VAT and all the other myriad taxes we're forced to pay, largely just to fund and sustain those who contribute absolutely nothing.

The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour.
I agree that what you say is a problem and needs sorting out. More to it than that though.
It also doesn't get away from the fact that one of the towns mp's is talking rubbish and trying to put glitter on a piece of ****.
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Tomlinson's comments beggar belief. Could he dress it up any more? Those people struggling on minimum wages,those in part time work desperate to get full time jobs, the young people who cannot get anything, the hard working families having less and less in the bank each month, etc,etc will not fall for such rubbish. Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon. Yet, house building and growth of our over filled and struggling town continues.[/p][/quote]The real reason so many working people are 'out of pocket' is because of the punitive level of Income Tax, NI, Council Tax, VAT and all the other myriad taxes we're forced to pay, largely just to fund and sustain those who contribute absolutely nothing. The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour.[/p][/quote]I agree that what you say is a problem and needs sorting out. More to it than that though. It also doesn't get away from the fact that one of the towns mp's is talking rubbish and trying to put glitter on a piece of ****. Davey Gravey

5:11pm Tue 31 Dec 13

John Trollston says...

Ringer wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Tomlinson's comments beggar belief. Could he dress it up any more?

Those people struggling on minimum wages,those in part time work desperate to get full time jobs, the young people who cannot get anything, the hard working families having less and less in the bank each month, etc,etc will not fall for such rubbish.

Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon.
Yet, house building and growth of our over filled and struggling town continues.
The real reason so many working people are 'out of pocket' is because of the punitive level of Income Tax, NI, Council Tax, VAT and all the other myriad taxes we're forced to pay, largely just to fund and sustain those who contribute absolutely nothing.

The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour.
Davey is 100% correct Ringer has a valid point.

Here it is:

Employers paying low wages get taxpayer subsidies in the form of tax credits to assemble a workforce for them to make decent profit margins.
This cannot be blamed simply on the recession although it is a major factor.

Employers motto today= When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.

Workers can do little to fight falling real wages.

Maybe its the consequences of millions of immigrants on the UK employment market along with a stagnant economy.

One thing it is a very serious issue glossed over by Mr Tomlinson.
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Tomlinson's comments beggar belief. Could he dress it up any more? Those people struggling on minimum wages,those in part time work desperate to get full time jobs, the young people who cannot get anything, the hard working families having less and less in the bank each month, etc,etc will not fall for such rubbish. Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon. Yet, house building and growth of our over filled and struggling town continues.[/p][/quote]The real reason so many working people are 'out of pocket' is because of the punitive level of Income Tax, NI, Council Tax, VAT and all the other myriad taxes we're forced to pay, largely just to fund and sustain those who contribute absolutely nothing. The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour.[/p][/quote]Davey is 100% correct Ringer has a valid point. Here it is: Employers paying low wages get taxpayer subsidies in the form of tax credits to assemble a workforce for them to make decent profit margins. This cannot be blamed simply on the recession although it is a major factor. Employers motto today= When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow. Workers can do little to fight falling real wages. Maybe its the consequences of millions of immigrants on the UK employment market along with a stagnant economy. One thing it is a very serious issue glossed over by Mr Tomlinson. John Trollston

5:59pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Davey Gravey says...

When workers do stand up for themselves they then get slated by the same folk on here. They get told to lump it basically by the majority in here
When workers do stand up for themselves they then get slated by the same folk on here. They get told to lump it basically by the majority in here Davey Gravey

10:14pm Tue 31 Dec 13

faatmaan says...

Ringer wrote:
@faatmaan:


Old well paid jobs replaced by minimum wage retail jobs, that's real progress for the town.


This just is not true.

People are, generally, worth the level of salary that their abilities, skills and education can command. People who have earned £50kpa doing a certain job do not tend to go into £18kpa town centre retail work.

Equally, those who have done cleaning jobs all their lives are unlikely to suddenly move into £50kpa jobs at any point.
i think you have over egged the differentials, people in Swindon generally earn around £25K or thereabouts, so having to drop to retail wage levels would still be a big hit for them, the jobcentre would bully these able bodied workers into any job to achieve their targets and threaten them with removal of benefit if they did not, for those in the higher sphere of £50K and above, these people can usually sit it out for a while and live off savings which the bulk of the workforce could not.
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: @faatmaan: [quote] Old well paid jobs replaced by minimum wage retail jobs, that's real progress for the town. [/quote] This just is not true. People are, generally, worth the level of salary that their abilities, skills and education can command. People who have earned £50kpa doing a certain job do not tend to go into £18kpa town centre retail work. Equally, those who have done cleaning jobs all their lives are unlikely to suddenly move into £50kpa jobs at any point.[/p][/quote]i think you have over egged the differentials, people in Swindon generally earn around £25K or thereabouts, so having to drop to retail wage levels would still be a big hit for them, the jobcentre would bully these able bodied workers into any job to achieve their targets and threaten them with removal of benefit if they did not, for those in the higher sphere of £50K and above, these people can usually sit it out for a while and live off savings which the bulk of the workforce could not. faatmaan

11:42pm Tue 31 Dec 13

molly60 says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
When workers do stand up for themselves they then get slated by the same folk on here. They get told to lump it basically by the majority in here
Nobody minds people standing up for themselves but not when they are led by Red Robbo Scargill McCluskey and the rest of the red brigade.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: When workers do stand up for themselves they then get slated by the same folk on here. They get told to lump it basically by the majority in here[/p][/quote]Nobody minds people standing up for themselves but not when they are led by Red Robbo Scargill McCluskey and the rest of the red brigade. molly60

2:34am Wed 1 Jan 14

Empty Car Park says...

John Trollston wrote:
Ringer wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Tomlinson's comments beggar belief. Could he dress it up any more?

Those people struggling on minimum wages,those in part time work desperate to get full time jobs, the young people who cannot get anything, the hard working families having less and less in the bank each month, etc,etc will not fall for such rubbish.

Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon.
Yet, house building and growth of our over filled and struggling town continues.
The real reason so many working people are 'out of pocket' is because of the punitive level of Income Tax, NI, Council Tax, VAT and all the other myriad taxes we're forced to pay, largely just to fund and sustain those who contribute absolutely nothing.

The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour.
Davey is 100% correct Ringer has a valid point.

Here it is:

Employers paying low wages get taxpayer subsidies in the form of tax credits to assemble a workforce for them to make decent profit margins.
This cannot be blamed simply on the recession although it is a major factor.

Employers motto today= When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.

Workers can do little to fight falling real wages.

Maybe its the consequences of millions of immigrants on the UK employment market along with a stagnant economy.

One thing it is a very serious issue glossed over by Mr Tomlinson.
Why on earth would that sequence of comments get a minus thumb score.

Pretty sad that councillors and politicos have to corrupt a low level readers comments forum
[quote][p][bold]John Trollston[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Tomlinson's comments beggar belief. Could he dress it up any more? Those people struggling on minimum wages,those in part time work desperate to get full time jobs, the young people who cannot get anything, the hard working families having less and less in the bank each month, etc,etc will not fall for such rubbish. Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon. Yet, house building and growth of our over filled and struggling town continues.[/p][/quote]The real reason so many working people are 'out of pocket' is because of the punitive level of Income Tax, NI, Council Tax, VAT and all the other myriad taxes we're forced to pay, largely just to fund and sustain those who contribute absolutely nothing. The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour.[/p][/quote]Davey is 100% correct Ringer has a valid point. Here it is: Employers paying low wages get taxpayer subsidies in the form of tax credits to assemble a workforce for them to make decent profit margins. This cannot be blamed simply on the recession although it is a major factor. Employers motto today= When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow. Workers can do little to fight falling real wages. Maybe its the consequences of millions of immigrants on the UK employment market along with a stagnant economy. One thing it is a very serious issue glossed over by Mr Tomlinson.[/p][/quote]Why on earth would that sequence of comments get a minus thumb score. Pretty sad that councillors and politicos have to corrupt a low level readers comments forum Empty Car Park

10:26am Wed 1 Jan 14

LordAshOfTheBrake says...

Ringer wrote:
@faatmaan:


Old well paid jobs replaced by minimum wage retail jobs, that's real progress for the town.


This just is not true.

People are, generally, worth the level of salary that their abilities, skills and education can command. People who have earned £50kpa doing a certain job do not tend to go into £18kpa town centre retail work.

Equally, those who have done cleaning jobs all their lives are unlikely to suddenly move into £50kpa jobs at any point.
I suspect his comment was intended to be sarcastic....!
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: @faatmaan: [quote] Old well paid jobs replaced by minimum wage retail jobs, that's real progress for the town. [/quote] This just is not true. People are, generally, worth the level of salary that their abilities, skills and education can command. People who have earned £50kpa doing a certain job do not tend to go into £18kpa town centre retail work. Equally, those who have done cleaning jobs all their lives are unlikely to suddenly move into £50kpa jobs at any point.[/p][/quote]I suspect his comment was intended to be sarcastic....! LordAshOfTheBrake

10:29am Wed 1 Jan 14

LordAshOfTheBrake says...

house on the hill wrote:
""""LordAshOfTh
eBrak
e says...
Whilst we have the ridiculous working tax credits system, employers will continue to pay low wages knowing that the government tops up employee pay essentially giving their business a subsidy.""""

So what happens if you take it away and they have to pay higher wages, presumably prices will go up to cover the higher wages then and fuel inflation?

""""Davey Gravey says..
Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon"""

Do you think that might have something to do with Swindon being the teen pregnancy capital of Europe not that long ago, it is hardly surprising that we have that trend for the u25's not that it would stop politicians from using it to beat people with!

"Ringer says...
The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour.""

Completely agree, if you want something in life, go out and earn it instead of expecting others to constantly bail you out and that includes having kids, your number one responsibility is to them, so if you cant provide for them, be more responsible and dont have them until you can. They are not a right the are a privelidge but I doubt many will agree with me, mainly because they are on endless benefits paid for by others.
There are alternatives to working tax credits, in the form of increasing the tax thresholds to which tax is paid; which is where the current government is heading.

There should be no need for government to subside earnings directly through paying back money paid in tax as done in the tax credits fiasco.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: """"LordAshOfTh eBrak e says... Whilst we have the ridiculous working tax credits system, employers will continue to pay low wages knowing that the government tops up employee pay essentially giving their business a subsidy."""" So what happens if you take it away and they have to pay higher wages, presumably prices will go up to cover the higher wages then and fuel inflation? """"Davey Gravey says.. Whatever way he wishes to dress it up the facts are people are out of pocket, cannot get suitable jobs and in the case of U25s are seeing unemployment above the national average in Swindon""" Do you think that might have something to do with Swindon being the teen pregnancy capital of Europe not that long ago, it is hardly surprising that we have that trend for the u25's not that it would stop politicians from using it to beat people with! "Ringer says... The hopelessly unaffordable welfare state needs to be reined back and further cuts to public spending are essential if decent, hard working people are to ever see the fruits of their labour."" Completely agree, if you want something in life, go out and earn it instead of expecting others to constantly bail you out and that includes having kids, your number one responsibility is to them, so if you cant provide for them, be more responsible and dont have them until you can. They are not a right the are a privelidge but I doubt many will agree with me, mainly because they are on endless benefits paid for by others.[/p][/quote]There are alternatives to working tax credits, in the form of increasing the tax thresholds to which tax is paid; which is where the current government is heading. There should be no need for government to subside earnings directly through paying back money paid in tax as done in the tax credits fiasco. LordAshOfTheBrake

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