Probation service uproar

First published in News by

PROBATION officers in Swindon and Wiltshire have joined hundreds around the country in appealing against the jobs assigned to them under a new system.

Controversial changes to the probation system will see 35 local probation trusts shut down and replaced with 21 rehabilitation companies run under government contracts by private companies and voluntary groups known as the Community Rehabilitation Company (CRC).

Only 30 per cent of offenders who are most at risk of serious re-offending will continue to be seen by the remaining centrally-run public sector arm of the service, known as the National Probation Service (NPS), after the changes come into effect.

In the meantime, Probation Workers are being reassigned to jobs in the public-sector arm and the privately-run branch to ensure nobody is left out of a job, but despite having the opportunity to express which arm of the new service they wanted to be in, many have chosen to appeal against their new roles.

Albertine Davies, secretary for the National Association of Probation Officers in Swindon, said: “We have all had to express an interest where we want to be assigned. But I haven’t got a job description. We had to make a preference blind.

“I think a lot of people will decide to leave the service entirely and find work somewhere else that suits their particular skill set. I think probation will lose a lot of valuable people.

“We’re not concerned about our jobs, we’re concerned about the impact that it is going to have on offenders.”

Of the 120 staff working at the Wiltshire Probation Trust, four probation workers were not assigned their expressed preference, and three have chosen to appeal against the decision.

Liz Hickey, Deputy Director of Operations at Wiltshire Probation, said: “Most of the officers in Swindon were assigned the roles that they preferred, and only four didn’t. Of them only three appealed against the decision.

“In Wiltshire we are already trying to work a step ahead and on the basis that the changes will come in in order to make a smoother transition to the new system for our offenders. We want to continue to work while causing minimum disruption to our offenders.”

Nationally, 553 probation workers have appealed against their assigned roles, although Justice Secretary Chris Grayling said this was a fraction of the appeals he had been expecting.

The changes are expected to be fully in place by April 2015, but Napo is asking the public to sign an online petition against the plans.

l Go to www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/ stop-risking-public-safety to have your say. For more on the changes to the probation service visit www.justice.gov.uk/transforming-rehabilitation.

Comments (17)

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6:31am Thu 20 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

So many criminals currently re-offend whilst under the, ahem, 'watchful eye' of the Probation Service that it's hard to believe any alternative service could possibly be any worse.

Why are these people whinging and claiming the new service will be worse when it appears that almost all of the people staffing it will be the same people who currently staff it...
So many criminals currently re-offend whilst under the, ahem, 'watchful eye' of the Probation Service that it's hard to believe any alternative service could possibly be any worse. Why are these people whinging and claiming the new service will be worse when it appears that almost all of the people staffing it will be the same people who currently staff it... ChannelX
  • Score: 12

7:35am Thu 20 Feb 14

swindondad says...

ChannelX wrote:
So many criminals currently re-offend whilst under the, ahem, 'watchful eye' of the Probation Service that it's hard to believe any alternative service could possibly be any worse. Why are these people whinging and claiming the new service will be worse when it appears that almost all of the people staffing it will be the same people who currently staff it...
Exactly.

Whilst we are at it why is between 2.5% (3/120) of staff appealing their outcome a story I would think you would struggle to find many work places (public or private) where 97.5% of staff were content with a major restructuring.
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: So many criminals currently re-offend whilst under the, ahem, 'watchful eye' of the Probation Service that it's hard to believe any alternative service could possibly be any worse. Why are these people whinging and claiming the new service will be worse when it appears that almost all of the people staffing it will be the same people who currently staff it...[/p][/quote]Exactly. Whilst we are at it why is between 2.5% (3/120) of staff appealing their outcome a story I would think you would struggle to find many work places (public or private) where 97.5% of staff were content with a major restructuring. swindondad
  • Score: 7

8:29am Thu 20 Feb 14

house on the hill says...

ChannelX wrote:
So many criminals currently re-offend whilst under the, ahem, 'watchful eye' of the Probation Service that it's hard to believe any alternative service could possibly be any worse.

Why are these people whinging and claiming the new service will be worse when it appears that almost all of the people staffing it will be the same people who currently staff it...
I think you answered your own question there. And this is the public sector, so no idea of hard work or accountability, just a safer job than the rest of us with a lovely pension at the end of it, if they spent as much time working as they did moaning the service would actually improve!
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: So many criminals currently re-offend whilst under the, ahem, 'watchful eye' of the Probation Service that it's hard to believe any alternative service could possibly be any worse. Why are these people whinging and claiming the new service will be worse when it appears that almost all of the people staffing it will be the same people who currently staff it...[/p][/quote]I think you answered your own question there. And this is the public sector, so no idea of hard work or accountability, just a safer job than the rest of us with a lovely pension at the end of it, if they spent as much time working as they did moaning the service would actually improve! house on the hill
  • Score: 9

8:52am Thu 20 Feb 14

anotherimigrant says...

I have found the probation service to be a lying and manipulative bunch of self opinionated do gooders.

Criminals love to tell them their hard luck stories and hope to extract more money from them in grants that they can use for drugs.

Close them down, waste of time money and resources.

All comments by me are my personal opinion and I don't wish to offend anyone but if I do, I don't care either.
I have found the probation service to be a lying and manipulative bunch of self opinionated do gooders. Criminals love to tell them their hard luck stories and hope to extract more money from them in grants that they can use for drugs. Close them down, waste of time money and resources. All comments by me are my personal opinion and I don't wish to offend anyone but if I do, I don't care either. anotherimigrant
  • Score: 5

9:26am Thu 20 Feb 14

umpcah says...

Assuming that no-one has the right to commit a crime especially violent ones I suggest an early return to birching for repeat offenders. I`m also sick of reading that for legal reasons an accused person cannot be named whilst others in the same case are !
Assuming that no-one has the right to commit a crime especially violent ones I suggest an early return to birching for repeat offenders. I`m also sick of reading that for legal reasons an accused person cannot be named whilst others in the same case are ! umpcah
  • Score: 3

10:42am Thu 20 Feb 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

Being so bitter and angry must be tiring. Any actual solutions on offer other than "birching" the usual over 65`s wasnt like this in my day squad.
As stated above 97% happy with a restructure is an amazing result and probably not a managed statistic at all.
Companies running prison and probation system cannot be a good idea or are we suggesting the system in the US works?
Being so bitter and angry must be tiring. Any actual solutions on offer other than "birching" the usual over 65`s wasnt like this in my day squad. As stated above 97% happy with a restructure is an amazing result and probably not a managed statistic at all. Companies running prison and probation system cannot be a good idea or are we suggesting the system in the US works? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: -5

11:20am Thu 20 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

Badgersgetabadname wrote:
Being so bitter and angry must be tiring. Any actual solutions on offer other than "birching" the usual over 65`s wasnt like this in my day squad.
As stated above 97% happy with a restructure is an amazing result and probably not a managed statistic at all.
Companies running prison and probation system cannot be a good idea or are we suggesting the system in the US works?
The reoffending rate - over a comparable time period - in the US (67.5%) is LOWER than in the UK (69%), so I'm not sure what your point is?

As the article states, the people currently staffing the Probation Service will be the same people staffing the new version - so why would their performance suddenly change?
[quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: Being so bitter and angry must be tiring. Any actual solutions on offer other than "birching" the usual over 65`s wasnt like this in my day squad. As stated above 97% happy with a restructure is an amazing result and probably not a managed statistic at all. Companies running prison and probation system cannot be a good idea or are we suggesting the system in the US works?[/p][/quote]The reoffending rate - over a comparable time period - in the US (67.5%) is LOWER than in the UK (69%), so I'm not sure what your point is? As the article states, the people currently staffing the Probation Service will be the same people staffing the new version - so why would their performance suddenly change? ChannelX
  • Score: 6

12:16pm Thu 20 Feb 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

Business has targets to hit do you think they are judged on rate of reoffending no in the US it is judged on annual turnover. US prison system is one of the biggest businesses in the states.

The reoffending rate - over a comparable time period - in the US (67.5%) is LOWER than in the UK (69%), so I'm not sure what your point is?

Do you have a link or source for this? what was the length of time line?
Did I say the performance would be effected? I asked if the US model was one to be followed you have stated that the US prison system reforms criminals where has this statement come from?
Business has targets to hit do you think they are judged on rate of reoffending no in the US it is judged on annual turnover. US prison system is one of the biggest businesses in the states. The reoffending rate - over a comparable time period - in the US (67.5%) is LOWER than in the UK (69%), so I'm not sure what your point is? Do you have a link or source for this? what was the length of time line? Did I say the performance would be effected? I asked if the US model was one to be followed you have stated that the US prison system reforms criminals where has this statement come from? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: -2

1:40pm Thu 20 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

Badgersgetabadname wrote:
Business has targets to hit do you think they are judged on rate of reoffending no in the US it is judged on annual turnover. US prison system is one of the biggest businesses in the states.

The reoffending rate - over a comparable time period - in the US (67.5%) is LOWER than in the UK (69%), so I'm not sure what your point is?

Do you have a link or source for this? what was the length of time line?
Did I say the performance would be effected? I asked if the US model was one to be followed you have stated that the US prison system reforms criminals where has this statement come from?
The US system does not 'reform criminals'. Well over two-thirds of those who pass through the US custodial system re-offend within three years of release.

That's not good.

However, you appeared to be trying to imply the US system was somehow less desirable than ours... yet, unfortunately, the UK custodial system - with it's so-called 'more enlightened' 'rehabilitation' system - manages to ensure that 7 out of 10 people who've been through that system reoffend within three years of release.

When you take into account those who emigrate, those who are deported, those who fall into serious ill-health and those who die, it pretty much means near enough all of them re-offend.

That's REALLY not good.

Run the system as a business - it has targets to hit (that actually mean something and matter). Run the system as a public service - it has targets to hit (it's just that nothing happens when they're not met).

In any case, in the UK it's going to be the SAME people running the SAME system - so how do you suppose it'll be any better or worse?
[quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: Business has targets to hit do you think they are judged on rate of reoffending no in the US it is judged on annual turnover. US prison system is one of the biggest businesses in the states. The reoffending rate - over a comparable time period - in the US (67.5%) is LOWER than in the UK (69%), so I'm not sure what your point is? Do you have a link or source for this? what was the length of time line? Did I say the performance would be effected? I asked if the US model was one to be followed you have stated that the US prison system reforms criminals where has this statement come from?[/p][/quote]The US system does not 'reform criminals'. Well over two-thirds of those who pass through the US custodial system re-offend within three years of release. That's not good. However, you appeared to be trying to imply the US system was somehow less desirable than ours... yet, unfortunately, the UK custodial system - with it's so-called 'more enlightened' 'rehabilitation' system - manages to ensure that 7 out of 10 people who've been through that system reoffend within three years of release. When you take into account those who emigrate, those who are deported, those who fall into serious ill-health and those who die, it pretty much means near enough all of them re-offend. That's REALLY not good. Run the system as a business - it has targets to hit (that actually mean something and matter). Run the system as a public service - it has targets to hit (it's just that nothing happens when they're not met). In any case, in the UK it's going to be the SAME people running the SAME system - so how do you suppose it'll be any better or worse? ChannelX
  • Score: 1

1:41pm Thu 20 Feb 14

house on the hill says...

The US has the 3 strikes and you are out system which not only puts a lot off re offending but also locks up for good the persistent ones, a shame we dont do the same here.
The US has the 3 strikes and you are out system which not only puts a lot off re offending but also locks up for good the persistent ones, a shame we dont do the same here. house on the hill
  • Score: 3

2:33pm Thu 20 Feb 14

swindondad says...

house on the hill wrote:
The US has the 3 strikes and you are out system which not only puts a lot off re offending but also locks up for good the persistent ones, a shame we dont do the same here.
The American "3 strike" rule for "felony" convictions is an extreme but effective means of stopping criminals reoffending in the community at large but in those states that do not have the death penalty it does mean that prisons contain a large proportion of people who have nothing to lose and so the levels of violence with those institutions is incredibly high.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: The US has the 3 strikes and you are out system which not only puts a lot off re offending but also locks up for good the persistent ones, a shame we dont do the same here.[/p][/quote]The American "3 strike" rule for "felony" convictions is an extreme but effective means of stopping criminals reoffending in the community at large but in those states that do not have the death penalty it does mean that prisons contain a large proportion of people who have nothing to lose and so the levels of violence with those institutions is incredibly high. swindondad
  • Score: 2

2:53pm Thu 20 Feb 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

ChannelX wrote:
Badgersgetabadname wrote:
Business has targets to hit do you think they are judged on rate of reoffending no in the US it is judged on annual turnover. US prison system is one of the biggest businesses in the states.

The reoffending rate - over a comparable time period - in the US (67.5%) is LOWER than in the UK (69%), so I'm not sure what your point is?

Do you have a link or source for this? what was the length of time line?
Did I say the performance would be effected? I asked if the US model was one to be followed you have stated that the US prison system reforms criminals where has this statement come from?
The US system does not 'reform criminals'. Well over two-thirds of those who pass through the US custodial system re-offend within three years of release.

That's not good.

However, you appeared to be trying to imply the US system was somehow less desirable than ours... yet, unfortunately, the UK custodial system - with it's so-called 'more enlightened' 'rehabilitation' system - manages to ensure that 7 out of 10 people who've been through that system reoffend within three years of release.

When you take into account those who emigrate, those who are deported, those who fall into serious ill-health and those who die, it pretty much means near enough all of them re-offend.

That's REALLY not good.

Run the system as a business - it has targets to hit (that actually mean something and matter). Run the system as a public service - it has targets to hit (it's just that nothing happens when they're not met).

In any case, in the UK it's going to be the SAME people running the SAME system - so how do you suppose it'll be any better or worse?
Any actual source for you statistics? I wont bother asking again as the number you send up as fact are obviously correct in your head.
It is 3 strikes in the same state....how does this prevent reoffending???It moves the problem I grant you but not the point was it?
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: Business has targets to hit do you think they are judged on rate of reoffending no in the US it is judged on annual turnover. US prison system is one of the biggest businesses in the states. The reoffending rate - over a comparable time period - in the US (67.5%) is LOWER than in the UK (69%), so I'm not sure what your point is? Do you have a link or source for this? what was the length of time line? Did I say the performance would be effected? I asked if the US model was one to be followed you have stated that the US prison system reforms criminals where has this statement come from?[/p][/quote]The US system does not 'reform criminals'. Well over two-thirds of those who pass through the US custodial system re-offend within three years of release. That's not good. However, you appeared to be trying to imply the US system was somehow less desirable than ours... yet, unfortunately, the UK custodial system - with it's so-called 'more enlightened' 'rehabilitation' system - manages to ensure that 7 out of 10 people who've been through that system reoffend within three years of release. When you take into account those who emigrate, those who are deported, those who fall into serious ill-health and those who die, it pretty much means near enough all of them re-offend. That's REALLY not good. Run the system as a business - it has targets to hit (that actually mean something and matter). Run the system as a public service - it has targets to hit (it's just that nothing happens when they're not met). In any case, in the UK it's going to be the SAME people running the SAME system - so how do you suppose it'll be any better or worse?[/p][/quote]Any actual source for you statistics? I wont bother asking again as the number you send up as fact are obviously correct in your head. It is 3 strikes in the same state....how does this prevent reoffending???It moves the problem I grant you but not the point was it? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: -2

3:29pm Thu 20 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

Badgersgetabadname wrote:
ChannelX wrote:
Badgersgetabadname wrote:
Business has targets to hit do you think they are judged on rate of reoffending no in the US it is judged on annual turnover. US prison system is one of the biggest businesses in the states.

The reoffending rate - over a comparable time period - in the US (67.5%) is LOWER than in the UK (69%), so I'm not sure what your point is?

Do you have a link or source for this? what was the length of time line?
Did I say the performance would be effected? I asked if the US model was one to be followed you have stated that the US prison system reforms criminals where has this statement come from?
The US system does not 'reform criminals'. Well over two-thirds of those who pass through the US custodial system re-offend within three years of release.

That's not good.

However, you appeared to be trying to imply the US system was somehow less desirable than ours... yet, unfortunately, the UK custodial system - with it's so-called 'more enlightened' 'rehabilitation' system - manages to ensure that 7 out of 10 people who've been through that system reoffend within three years of release.

When you take into account those who emigrate, those who are deported, those who fall into serious ill-health and those who die, it pretty much means near enough all of them re-offend.

That's REALLY not good.

Run the system as a business - it has targets to hit (that actually mean something and matter). Run the system as a public service - it has targets to hit (it's just that nothing happens when they're not met).

In any case, in the UK it's going to be the SAME people running the SAME system - so how do you suppose it'll be any better or worse?
Any actual source for you statistics? I wont bother asking again as the number you send up as fact are obviously correct in your head.
It is 3 strikes in the same state....how does this prevent reoffending???It moves the problem I grant you but not the point was it?
As I've said on another thread, the figures are from US and UK government publications on a like for like basis of criminals who have been handed custodial sentences who go on to reoffend (and that means be arrested, charged AND found guilty) within three years of their release.

They are all publically available to anyone with access to Google and the ability to type and read English.

Just because you may not happen to like the actual reality doesn't, I'm afraid, change it.

Three-strikes is a rather excellent idea for preventing criminals from offending a forth time (assuming they're caught for each crime they commit).

Sadly, it is not uncommon for criminals in the UK to find themselves in court on their 20th, 30th, 50th and even 100th conviction. Something that is not only completely ridiculous but which proves, beyond all doubt, that the Criminal Justice System is run entirely to benefit the criminal and has zero interest whatsoever in the victims of crime, or future victims of crime.
[quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: Business has targets to hit do you think they are judged on rate of reoffending no in the US it is judged on annual turnover. US prison system is one of the biggest businesses in the states. The reoffending rate - over a comparable time period - in the US (67.5%) is LOWER than in the UK (69%), so I'm not sure what your point is? Do you have a link or source for this? what was the length of time line? Did I say the performance would be effected? I asked if the US model was one to be followed you have stated that the US prison system reforms criminals where has this statement come from?[/p][/quote]The US system does not 'reform criminals'. Well over two-thirds of those who pass through the US custodial system re-offend within three years of release. That's not good. However, you appeared to be trying to imply the US system was somehow less desirable than ours... yet, unfortunately, the UK custodial system - with it's so-called 'more enlightened' 'rehabilitation' system - manages to ensure that 7 out of 10 people who've been through that system reoffend within three years of release. When you take into account those who emigrate, those who are deported, those who fall into serious ill-health and those who die, it pretty much means near enough all of them re-offend. That's REALLY not good. Run the system as a business - it has targets to hit (that actually mean something and matter). Run the system as a public service - it has targets to hit (it's just that nothing happens when they're not met). In any case, in the UK it's going to be the SAME people running the SAME system - so how do you suppose it'll be any better or worse?[/p][/quote]Any actual source for you statistics? I wont bother asking again as the number you send up as fact are obviously correct in your head. It is 3 strikes in the same state....how does this prevent reoffending???It moves the problem I grant you but not the point was it?[/p][/quote]As I've said on another thread, the figures are from US and UK government publications on a like for like basis of criminals who have been handed custodial sentences who go on to reoffend (and that means be arrested, charged AND found guilty) within three years of their release. They are all publically available to anyone with access to Google and the ability to type and read English. Just because you may not happen to like the actual reality doesn't, I'm afraid, change it. Three-strikes is a rather excellent idea for preventing criminals from offending a forth time (assuming they're caught for each crime they commit). Sadly, it is not uncommon for criminals in the UK to find themselves in court on their 20th, 30th, 50th and even 100th conviction. Something that is not only completely ridiculous but which proves, beyond all doubt, that the Criminal Justice System is run entirely to benefit the criminal and has zero interest whatsoever in the victims of crime, or future victims of crime. ChannelX
  • Score: 2

3:32pm Thu 20 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

Just to add, clearly (in both nations) many more of those released from prison will reoffend than the 70% or so who are convicted of reoffending, it's just that they're not caught for, or found guilty of, their reoffending.

Essentially, 'rehabilitation' is a myth. A lovely concept in theory, but it doesn't really exist in practice.
Just to add, clearly (in both nations) many more of those released from prison will reoffend than the 70% or so who are convicted of reoffending, it's just that they're not caught for, or found guilty of, their reoffending. Essentially, 'rehabilitation' is a myth. A lovely concept in theory, but it doesn't really exist in practice. ChannelX
  • Score: 1

3:52pm Thu 20 Feb 14

cjones03824 says...

anotherimigrant wrote:
I have found the probation service to be a lying and manipulative bunch of self opinionated do gooders.

Criminals love to tell them their hard luck stories and hope to extract more money from them in grants that they can use for drugs.

Close them down, waste of time money and resources.

All comments by me are my personal opinion and I don't wish to offend anyone but if I do, I don't care either.
A little generalised I think. A close family member has served his time and now works closely with the probation service to get him back in to society. At no pint has he been offered or ever been offered a grant of any kind and he certainly has no involvement in drugs.

Probation service have helped him integrate back in to normal life successfully, he has not reoffended and has been very successful back in employment earning not one but two promotions in the 6 months he has been out.

Maybe just maybe you should not tar every person with the same dirty brush as your username suggests you certainly do! Self opinionated may have been the right word to use on yourself instead!
[quote][p][bold]anotherimigrant[/bold] wrote: I have found the probation service to be a lying and manipulative bunch of self opinionated do gooders. Criminals love to tell them their hard luck stories and hope to extract more money from them in grants that they can use for drugs. Close them down, waste of time money and resources. All comments by me are my personal opinion and I don't wish to offend anyone but if I do, I don't care either.[/p][/quote]A little generalised I think. A close family member has served his time and now works closely with the probation service to get him back in to society. At no pint has he been offered or ever been offered a grant of any kind and he certainly has no involvement in drugs. Probation service have helped him integrate back in to normal life successfully, he has not reoffended and has been very successful back in employment earning not one but two promotions in the 6 months he has been out. Maybe just maybe you should not tar every person with the same dirty brush as your username suggests you certainly do! Self opinionated may have been the right word to use on yourself instead! cjones03824
  • Score: 0

4:52pm Thu 20 Feb 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

cjones03824 wrote:
anotherimigrant wrote:
I have found the probation service to be a lying and manipulative bunch of self opinionated do gooders.

Criminals love to tell them their hard luck stories and hope to extract more money from them in grants that they can use for drugs.

Close them down, waste of time money and resources.

All comments by me are my personal opinion and I don't wish to offend anyone but if I do, I don't care either.
A little generalised I think. A close family member has served his time and now works closely with the probation service to get him back in to society. At no pint has he been offered or ever been offered a grant of any kind and he certainly has no involvement in drugs.

Probation service have helped him integrate back in to normal life successfully, he has not reoffended and has been very successful back in employment earning not one but two promotions in the 6 months he has been out.

Maybe just maybe you should not tar every person with the same dirty brush as your username suggests you certainly do! Self opinionated may have been the right word to use on yourself instead!
Well put Cjones great to hear a positive story coming out.
Ask for a source for these wild sweeping comments and there is none only that is wast like that in my day.
[quote][p][bold]cjones03824[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anotherimigrant[/bold] wrote: I have found the probation service to be a lying and manipulative bunch of self opinionated do gooders. Criminals love to tell them their hard luck stories and hope to extract more money from them in grants that they can use for drugs. Close them down, waste of time money and resources. All comments by me are my personal opinion and I don't wish to offend anyone but if I do, I don't care either.[/p][/quote]A little generalised I think. A close family member has served his time and now works closely with the probation service to get him back in to society. At no pint has he been offered or ever been offered a grant of any kind and he certainly has no involvement in drugs. Probation service have helped him integrate back in to normal life successfully, he has not reoffended and has been very successful back in employment earning not one but two promotions in the 6 months he has been out. Maybe just maybe you should not tar every person with the same dirty brush as your username suggests you certainly do! Self opinionated may have been the right word to use on yourself instead![/p][/quote]Well put Cjones great to hear a positive story coming out. Ask for a source for these wild sweeping comments and there is none only that is wast like that in my day. Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: -2

8:47pm Thu 20 Feb 14

house on the hill says...

Badgersgetabadname wrote:
Being so bitter and angry must be tiring. Any actual solutions on offer other than "birching" the usual over 65`s wasnt like this in my day squad.
As stated above 97% happy with a restructure is an amazing result and probably not a managed statistic at all.
Companies running prison and probation system cannot be a good idea or are we suggesting the system in the US works?
Says the expert on the subject! and what has age got to do with it, there are morons of every age like the tw4ts on the internet who drink themselves to death for a dare, you dont get much more stupid than that.
[quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: Being so bitter and angry must be tiring. Any actual solutions on offer other than "birching" the usual over 65`s wasnt like this in my day squad. As stated above 97% happy with a restructure is an amazing result and probably not a managed statistic at all. Companies running prison and probation system cannot be a good idea or are we suggesting the system in the US works?[/p][/quote]Says the expert on the subject! and what has age got to do with it, there are morons of every age like the tw4ts on the internet who drink themselves to death for a dare, you dont get much more stupid than that. house on the hill
  • Score: 0

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