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Town MPs vote to shut post offices
BOTH of Swindon's MPs voted against a last-ditch effort to postpone the closing of four of the town's post offices.
Anne Snelgrove, the MP for South Swindon, and Michael Wills, the MP for North Swindon, voted against a Tory motion to delay closure of the post offices while other options were explored.
Post offices, in Lawn, Rodbourne, Lydiard Millicent and Eastcott are to be closed under present post office plans to shut thousands of facilities up and down the country.
The two Swindon politicians say they voted against Tory plans to delay closures because the scheme was merely political game playing.
The Conservative motion, which was debated and voted on last Wednesday, saw 20 Labour MPs rebel against the Government and vote for the motion - but it was downed by a count of 288 to 268.
Mr Wills said: "What matters is to save services for the vulnerable locally.
"The Tory motion wouldn't have kept a single extra post office open. It was political game playing.
"They agreed post offices would close, as the network is losing £200m a year.
"Indeed, they refused to match Government investment of £1.7bn so the Tory approach could see a further 7,500 post offices closing.
"I've surveyed Cheney Manor residents to see what they want and got 100 responses so far.
"I'm working with the Post Office and I hope the council will now reply to my invitation to join us to see what can be done.
"This is a test for Swindon Tories - can they put aside party politics and work with me for residents?"
Anne Snelgrove spoke during the Commons debate on the closures and, after a Government minister told her the Tories' plans would not save a single post office, she voted against the motion.
"This was just cynical political point scoring," she said. "The Tories weren't going to put any more money into keeping post offices open in Swindon or anywhere.
"I think that the fight to keep the post offices open should be a cross-party one."
Robert Buckland, who will fight the South Swindon seat for the Conservatives at the next General Election said: "We are staggered both Labour MPs have sought to front Save Our Post Office campaigns in Swindon, yet voted to carry on with the Government's closure programme."
11:55am Monday 24th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: Ian13, Swindon on 12:11pm Mon 24 Mar 08
So Labour just voted against this idea beacuase it was a Tory one? So how is that serving the vunerable public then?
So Labour just voted against this idea beacuase it was a Tory one? So how is that serving the vunerable public then?
Posted by: Peeved, Swindon on 12:27pm Mon 24 Mar 08
For goodness sake.. will Snelgrove and Wills ever take responsibility for their own actions. Whatever the Tories plan or don't plan to do with the Post Office should not detract from the point that both of our "caring" MP's voted for closures. Surely the hope that "the fight to keep the post offices open" across all parties should begin with the party in power. Yet another fine example of Snelgroves and Wills massive hypocrisy. The sooner these two are voted out the better!
For goodness sake.. will Snelgrove and Wills ever take responsibility for their own actions. Whatever the Tories plan or don't plan to do with the Post Office should not detract from the point that both of our "caring" MP's voted for closures. Surely the hope that "the fight to keep the post offices open" across all parties should begin with the party in power. Yet another fine example of Snelgroves and Wills massive hypocrisy. The sooner these two are voted out the better!
Posted by: who dat? on 12:31pm Mon 24 Mar 08
Orders of the Brown Nose all round , then!
The Robber McBroon must be SO-O-O-O-O proud of you two!
Orders of the Brown Nose all round , then!
The Robber McBroon must be SO-O-O-O-O proud of you two!
Posted by: Mrs Hullabaloo, Kent Road, Old Town on 1:10pm Mon 24 Mar 08
Seeing as our Labour MPs have abandoned us, will the Swindon Tories could follow the route being investigated by Essex County Council... for the Council to run the postal service?
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/uk_politics/7
289939.stm
Under the Conservative regime between 1979 and 1997, 4000 sub Post Offices were closed; and since this Labour Government has run the country, a further 3000 urban Post Offices have closed.
Maybe the service should have been privatised in 1994 when Micahel Heseltine proposed the idea? At least we would still have a local service...
Seeing as our Labour MPs have abandoned us, will the Swindon Tories could follow the route being investigated by Essex County Council... for the Council to run the postal service?
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/uk_politics/7
289939.stm
Under the Conservative regime between 1979 and 1997, 4000 sub Post Offices were closed; and since this Labour Government has run the country, a further 3000 urban Post Offices have closed.
Maybe the service should have been privatised in 1994 when Micahel Heseltine proposed the idea? At least we would still have a local service...
Posted by: Papillon, Swindon on 1:28pm Mon 24 Mar 08
Privatisation would have seen further closures even sooner, and as for fist class post at these prices, forget it!
Our Post Office has long been the envy of Europe and the rest of the world, but unfortunately without government intervention could not survive. WE are all against the closures, but how many of us use the past office regularly? For that point how many of us send letters these days?
Instead of propping it up as successive governments have done, perhaps more should have been done to protect it's market.
Privatisation would have seen further closures even sooner, and as for fist class post at these prices, forget it!
Our Post Office has long been the envy of Europe and the rest of the world, but unfortunately without government intervention could not survive. WE are all against the closures, but how many of us use the past office regularly? For that point how many of us send letters these days?
Instead of propping it up as successive governments have done, perhaps more should have been done to protect it's market.
Posted by: Cllr Peter Mallinson, Walcot Ward on 1:33pm Mon 24 Mar 08
Forget about party politics and gestures, our two MP's voted to close our post offices. What do they expect to happen next, there is no point in having talks about keeping them open with alternative arrangements. The decision has been made to close them and the two MP's were part of that decision. The whole thing is a disgrace.
Forget about party politics and gestures, our two MP's voted to close our post offices. What do they expect to happen next, there is no point in having talks about keeping them open with alternative arrangements. The decision has been made to close them and the two MP's were part of that decision. The whole thing is a disgrace.
Posted by: yeti, swindon on 1:46pm Mon 24 Mar 08
this one time labour voter will be voting for someone else next time.
the labour party is by name only.it is not the party it should be anymore.
this one time labour voter will be voting for someone else next time.
the labour party is by name only.it is not the party it should be anymore.
Posted by: born and bred, Swindon on 1:49pm Mon 24 Mar 08
I am not going to write a lot, But just to say I will never vote labour again ,And I mean that ,What a shambles and I dont just mean here in Swindon or just this issue,, Yes I expect We will lose them, but they could have helped ,Mine is Westcott Place and I used it a lot for e bay ,
I am not going to write a lot, But just to say I will never vote labour again ,And I mean that ,What a shambles and I dont just mean here in Swindon or just this issue,, Yes I expect We will lose them, but they could have helped ,Mine is Westcott Place and I used it a lot for e bay ,
Posted by: dalekdave, Swindon on 2:25pm Mon 24 Mar 08
I'm sure I've seen our beloved MPs standing in front of post offices supposedly campaigning to keep them open. What hypocrites.
Ms Snelgrove - I voted for you at the last election. I will be votng for whoever seems most likely to beat you at the next.
I used to be a Labour Party member; I am embarrassed to say that nowadays!
I'm sure I've seen our beloved MPs standing in front of post offices supposedly campaigning to keep them open. What hypocrites.
Ms Snelgrove - I voted for you at the last election. I will be votng for whoever seems most likely to beat you at the next.
I used to be a Labour Party member; I am embarrassed to say that nowadays!
Posted by: WTF?, Swindon on 3:58pm Mon 24 Mar 08
[quote][bold]yeti[/bold] wrote:
this one time labour voter will be voting for someone else next time. the labour party is by name only.it is not the party it should be anymore.[/quote] Well said that man.
You will NOT be alone on the day of elections that's for sure.
yeti wrote:
this one time labour voter will be voting for someone else next time. the labour party is by name only.it is not the party it should be anymore.
Well said that man.
You will NOT be alone on the day of elections that's for sure.
Posted by: bootersmate, Park South on 8:23pm Mon 24 Mar 08
I will reiterate a comment I made on this website a few weeks ago. When Gordon Brown says jump both Swindon M.P.s ask,'How high?'
I will reiterate a comment I made on this website a few weeks ago. When Gordon Brown says jump both Swindon M.P.s ask,'How high?'
Posted by: paul_swindon on 10:18pm Mon 24 Mar 08
Well doesn't that tell you all you need to know about the Labour Party and Labour MPs in Swindon. They have tried to blame the Council for playing politics with this issue, they tried to suggest the Council didn't care enough to get involved. The Council say that they did care but had no power to affect the decision one way or the other and that many Ward councillors were involved. The Post Office is owned by the government and its MPs had the chance to save the Post Offices by voting to do so, which the Council did not, and given that chance what did they do? Vote for closure. So now we know who playing politics in this Town and it isn't the Council. First goes to our MPs who represent the Government rather than Swindon and the second prize to the Des Moffat and his cronies who attack the Council but say nothing about the MPs. Strange that isn't it! God help democracy.
Well doesn't that tell you all you need to know about the Labour Party and Labour MPs in Swindon. They have tried to blame the Council for playing politics with this issue, they tried to suggest the Council didn't care enough to get involved. The Council say that they did care but had no power to affect the decision one way or the other and that many Ward councillors were involved. The Post Office is owned by the government and its MPs had the chance to save the Post Offices by voting to do so, which the Council did not, and given that chance what did they do? Vote for closure. So now we know who playing politics in this Town and it isn't the Council. First goes to our MPs who represent the Government rather than Swindon and the second prize to the Des Moffat and his cronies who attack the Council but say nothing about the MPs. Strange that isn't it! God help democracy.
Posted by: Robin Harris, Swindon on 3:35am Tue 25 Mar 08
Two MP's who have conceeded defeat before the next election is announced!!!
Two MP's who have conceeded defeat before the next election is announced!!!
Posted by: compaq, Swindon on 7:59am Tue 25 Mar 08
Wills has never voted against the government, this was no surprise at all. Protecting his position that's all he ever does, never votes for those that voted him in!
Wills has never voted against the government, this was no surprise at all. Protecting his position that's all he ever does, never votes for those that voted him in!
Posted by: Big Mac on 8:33am Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote]Anne Snelgrove spoke during the Commons debate on the closures and, after a Government minister told her the Tories' plans would not save a single post office, she voted against the motion.
[/quote]
Well, there's a surprise, Anne Snelgrove doing exactly as she's told by her party and ignoring anything and everything the people who voted for her might want.
BTW, to all of you who made the same mistake THREE TIMES, it's nice to read that you've finally realised that voting Labour really is not a good idea.
Higher taxes, lower level services and utter contempt for the electorate, that's all we've had for the past decade.
Contrary to the rubbish spouted by the likes of Donkey, I actually don't have any party affiliation and don't really care who you vote for but it has come to the point where if you vote Labour then you are clearly intent on seeing this country ruined once and for all and must therefore be considered the enemy.
Anne Snelgrove spoke during the Commons debate on the closures and, after a Government minister told her the Tories' plans would not save a single post office, she voted against the motion.
Well, there's a surprise, Anne Snelgrove doing exactly as she's told by her party and ignoring anything and everything the people who voted for her might want.
BTW, to all of you who made the same mistake THREE TIMES, it's nice to read that you've finally realised that voting Labour really is not a good idea.
Higher taxes, lower level services and utter contempt for the electorate, that's all we've had for the past decade.
Contrary to the rubbish spouted by the likes of Donkey, I actually don't have any party affiliation and don't really care who you vote for but it has come to the point where if you vote Labour then you are clearly intent on seeing this country ruined once and for all and must therefore be considered the enemy.
Posted by: doug@homefarm, SN1 on 8:58am Tue 25 Mar 08
Changing the subject completely, does anyone know why there were six police cars and dogs outside a house in Marlborough Road/Broome Manor Lane at about midnight last night? the intrepid ( or is it torpid) reporters of the adver clearl;y don't!
Changing the subject completely, does anyone know why there were six police cars and dogs outside a house in Marlborough Road/Broome Manor Lane at about midnight last night? the intrepid ( or is it torpid) reporters of the adver clearl;y don't!
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 10:06am Tue 25 Mar 08
I suggest all of you sign up to 'theyworkforyou.com' You will find it very enlightening reading what Snelgrove and Wills say in Parliament. Anyway back to the story. At the risk of repeating myself, no matter what either the Tories or Labour say, they cannot stop the post office closures. It is part of postal services harmonisation. The comment about 1.7 billion by Wills is yet another red herring. The EU has only allowed 150 million to be used to save services, which yet again is some 65million less than is necessary. This will mean further closures. Once the full EU Postal Directive comes in Royal Mail will just be left with the domestic delivery service which will ultimately mean Royal Mail will be no more. That's reality, all the rest is just electioneering politics. The only solution to this is to fight against the Reform Treaty which will make things like this even worse and ultimately press for Britain to leave the EU and join Norway and Swiss in the EFTA. Lets remember they are the two wealthiest countries in Europe, trade with Europe and the rest of the world without being part of it. You do have a choice in 5 weeks. Vote UKIP come to our meeting at the Nightingale this Thursday at 7pm. Learn the truth. There will be copies of our Local Manifesto available.
I suggest all of you sign up to 'theyworkforyou.com' You will find it very enlightening reading what Snelgrove and Wills say in Parliament. Anyway back to the story. At the risk of repeating myself, no matter what either the Tories or Labour say, they cannot stop the post office closures. It is part of postal services harmonisation. The comment about 1.7 billion by Wills is yet another red herring. The EU has only allowed 150 million to be used to save services, which yet again is some 65million less than is necessary. This will mean further closures. Once the full EU Postal Directive comes in Royal Mail will just be left with the domestic delivery service which will ultimately mean Royal Mail will be no more. That's reality, all the rest is just electioneering politics. The only solution to this is to fight against the Reform Treaty which will make things like this even worse and ultimately press for Britain to leave the EU and join Norway and Swiss in the EFTA. Lets remember they are the two wealthiest countries in Europe, trade with Europe and the rest of the world without being part of it. You do have a choice in 5 weeks. Vote UKIP come to our meeting at the Nightingale this Thursday at 7pm. Learn the truth. There will be copies of our Local Manifesto available.
Posted by: Cllr David Sammels, Swindon on 10:34am Tue 25 Mar 08
Robert,
Direct subsidy is not the only option available. It would be more than possible to open up the number of revenue generating activities available to post offices. At the moment it is pretty narrow.
With regards to Economic Free Trade Area (EFTA), I can't believe you know so little about an organisation that you wish to join! EFTA is of course part of the European Economic Area (EEA) which is primarily made up of the EU states. EFTA member nations are subject to [bold]ALL[/bold] competition regulations within the EU. This is organised and coordinated by the EFTA Surveillance Authroity - http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/EFTA. Hence, if we were a member of the EEA we would still be subject to the same rules re: post offices and all other free trade measures.
The exception to this is Switzerland - they are not in EFTA, but are in the EEA - meaning they have free trade access to only Norway, Lichtenstein and Iceland - hardly economic giants! They are wealthy in terms of GDP per capita, but that are minnow economies due to their size and population, and keep up due to exploitation of the world oil and finance markets. Switzerland's success could be emulated by a similarly low rate of corporation tax in the UK (and indeed, London and Edinburgh are Europe's 1st and 4th largest financial services economies at present.)
David
www.davidsammels.org
.uk
Robert,
Direct subsidy is not the only option available. It would be more than possible to open up the number of revenue generating activities available to post offices. At the moment it is pretty narrow.
With regards to Economic Free Trade Area (EFTA), I can't believe you know so little about an organisation that you wish to join! EFTA is of course part of the European Economic Area (EEA) which is primarily made up of the EU states. EFTA member nations are subject to
ALL competition regulations within the EU. This is organised and coordinated by the EFTA Surveillance Authroity - http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/EFTA. Hence, if we were a member of the EEA we would still be subject to the same rules re: post offices and all other free trade measures.
The exception to this is Switzerland - they are not in EFTA, but are in the EEA - meaning they have free trade access to only Norway, Lichtenstein and Iceland - hardly economic giants! They are wealthy in terms of GDP per capita, but that are minnow economies due to their size and population, and keep up due to exploitation of the world oil and finance markets. Switzerland's success could be emulated by a similarly low rate of corporation tax in the UK (and indeed, London and Edinburgh are Europe's 1st and 4th largest financial services economies at present.)
David
www.davidsammels.org
.uk
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 11:02am Tue 25 Mar 08
Councillor Sammels, if you seek to correct me at least do not make yourself look wanting. EFTA is the European Free Trade Asoociation.
The European Free Trade Association (EFTA) is an intergovernmental organisation set up for the promotion of free trade and economic integration to the benefit of its four Member States: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. The Association manages the EFTA Convention; EFTA’s worldwide network of free trade and partnership agreements, and the European Economic Area (EEA) Agreement.
The most important aspect of any economy is their GDP and the proportion that they have left. Wealth is objective, the countries and the citizens are wealthy.
Councillor Sammels, if you seek to correct me at least do not make yourself look wanting. EFTA is the European Free Trade Asoociation.
The European Free Trade Association (EFTA) is an intergovernmental organisation set up for the promotion of free trade and economic integration to the benefit of its four Member States: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. The Association manages the EFTA Convention; EFTA’s worldwide network of free trade and partnership agreements, and the European Economic Area (EEA) Agreement.
The most important aspect of any economy is their GDP and the proportion that they have left. Wealth is objective, the countries and the citizens are wealthy.
Posted by: georgie, SN5 on 11:20am Tue 25 Mar 08
Yup, another stab in the back from the MPs we pay so generously to represent us. All they actually represent is this tory government. I shall vote conservative next time, at least then I'll know what I'm getting. It's pointless having a local MP who has such contempt for local interests
Yup, another stab in the back from the MPs we pay so generously to represent us. All they actually represent is this tory government. I shall vote conservative next time, at least then I'll know what I'm getting. It's pointless having a local MP who has such contempt for local interests
Posted by: Cllr David Sammels, Swindon on 11:27am Tue 25 Mar 08
Robert,
I am well aware of how it works, and I can't believe a parliamentary candidate of any party isn't!
As I said, the EEA is subject to all free trade regulations that the EU is - so you would still not be able to prop up the post offices in the way that you are proposing!
The EFTA members may not be subject to many of the different areas where the EU infringes on national sovereignty - but they do have to adhere to all of their free trade legislation.
Robert,
I am well aware of how it works, and I can't believe a parliamentary candidate of any party isn't!
As I said, the EEA is subject to all free trade regulations that the EU is - so you would still not be able to prop up the post offices in the way that you are proposing!
The EFTA members may not be subject to many of the different areas where the EU infringes on national sovereignty - but they do have to adhere to all of their free trade legislation.
Posted by: Cllr David Sammels, Swindon on 11:30am Tue 25 Mar 08
Wikipedia has a handy map and guide to how it works under the 1994 agreement:
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/European_Ec
onomic_Area
As you can see, EFTA members must adhere to all social policy, consumer protection, environment, company law and statistical rules of the EU. In return they get no representation at the table.
Wikipedia has a handy map and guide to how it works under the 1994 agreement:
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/European_Ec
onomic_Area
As you can see, EFTA members must adhere to all social policy, consumer protection, environment, company law and statistical rules of the EU. In return they get no representation at the table.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 11:31am Tue 25 Mar 08
And in order not to [bold]mislead people Switzerland on not in the EEA as Councillor Sammels states. And for those whose wish to actually understand what being part of ETA really means. Look at what the EEA agreement doesn't cover.
EEA Agreement
The Agreement on the European Economic Area (EEA), which entered into force on 1 January 1994, brings together the 27 EU Members and the three EFTA countries — Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway — in a single internal market, referred to as the “Internal Market.”
The EEA Agreement provides for the inclusion of EU legislation that covers the four freedoms — the free movement of goods, services, persons and capital — throughout the 30 EEA States. In addition, the Agreement covers co-operation in other important areas such as research and development, education, social policy, the environment, consumer protection, tourism and culture, collectively known as “flanking and horizontal” policies. The Agreement guarantees equal rights and obligations within the Internal Market for citizens and economic operators in the EEA.
What is the EEA Not?
The EEA Agreement does not cover the EU’s:
* Common Agriculture and Fisheries Policies (although the Agreement contains provisions on various aspects of trade in agricultural and fish products);
* Customs Union;
* Common Trade Policy;
* Common Foreign and Security Policy;
* Justice and Home Affairs (even though the EFTA countries are part of the Schengen area) and;
* Monetary Union (EMU).
[/bold] So it can be seen the very things UK citizens are concerned about are not part of the EEA.
And in order not to
mislead people Switzerland on not in the EEA as Councillor Sammels states. And for those whose wish to actually understand what being part of ETA really means. Look at what the EEA agreement doesn't cover.
EEA Agreement
The Agreement on the European Economic Area (EEA), which entered into force on 1 January 1994, brings together the 27 EU Members and the three EFTA countries — Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway — in a single internal market, referred to as the “Internal Market.”
The EEA Agreement provides for the inclusion of EU legislation that covers the four freedoms — the free movement of goods, services, persons and capital — throughout the 30 EEA States. In addition, the Agreement covers co-operation in other important areas such as research and development, education, social policy, the environment, consumer protection, tourism and culture, collectively known as “flanking and horizontal” policies. The Agreement guarantees equal rights and obligations within the Internal Market for citizens and economic operators in the EEA.
What is the EEA Not?
The EEA Agreement does not cover the EU’s:
* Common Agriculture and Fisheries Policies (although the Agreement contains provisions on various aspects of trade in agricultural and fish products);
* Customs Union;
* Common Trade Policy;
* Common Foreign and Security Policy;
* Justice and Home Affairs (even though the EFTA countries are part of the Schengen area) and;
* Monetary Union (EMU).
So it can be seen the very things UK citizens are concerned about are not part of the EEA.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 11:36am Tue 25 Mar 08
What of course you fail to mention is that as an EFTA member you have a potential market place of two thirds of the world and the ability to trade without interference with that 2/3rds without interference from the Commission something Britain cannot do even under our current membership all agreements with 'outside' Sates have to meet EU rules. EFTA currently has 15 or so Trading Agreements and are negotiating many more with the growing economies of the world, all of whom are outside the EU.
What of course you fail to mention is that as an EFTA member you have a potential market place of two thirds of the world and the ability to trade without interference with that 2/3rds without interference from the Commission something Britain cannot do even under our current membership all agreements with 'outside' Sates have to meet EU rules. EFTA currently has 15 or so Trading Agreements and are negotiating many more with the growing economies of the world, all of whom are outside the EU.
Posted by: Cllr David Sammels, Swindon on 11:50am Tue 25 Mar 08
Robert,
I'll break this down for you.
1 - you say EU prevents us from subsidising post offices.
2 - you say we should join EFTA instead of the EU.
3 - you say this means we could subsidy post offices.
Except EFTA states also cannot subsidise post offices. That really is it - your last post "guarantees equal rights and obligations within the Internal Market for citizens and economic operators in the EEA." Ie. competition legislation.
I accept that EFTA membership has benefits over EU membership (personally I actually agree with you that we should become an EFTA rather than an EU member) BUT coming back to your original point - it would still prevent us from subsidising the post offices.
Robert,
I'll break this down for you.
1 - you say EU prevents us from subsidising post offices.
2 - you say we should join EFTA instead of the EU.
3 - you say this means we could subsidy post offices.
Except EFTA states also cannot subsidise post offices. That really is it - your last post "guarantees equal rights and obligations within the Internal Market for citizens and economic operators in the EEA." Ie. competition legislation.
I accept that EFTA membership has benefits over EU membership (personally I actually agree with you that we should become an EFTA rather than an EU member) BUT coming back to your original point - it would still prevent us from subsidising the post offices.
Posted by: A Tax Payer, Peatmoor on 11:58am Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]dalekdave[/bold] wrote:
I'm sure I've seen our beloved MPs standing in front of post offices supposedly campaigning to keep them open. What hypocrites.
Ms Snelgrove - I voted for you at the last election. I will be votng for whoever seems most likely to beat you at the next.
I used to be a Labour Party member; I am embarrassed to say that nowadays![/quote] Tsk, Tsk.
dalekdave wrote:
I'm sure I've seen our beloved MPs standing in front of post offices supposedly campaigning to keep them open. What hypocrites.
Ms Snelgrove - I voted for you at the last election. I will be votng for whoever seems most likely to beat you at the next.
I used to be a Labour Party member; I am embarrassed to say that nowadays!
Tsk, Tsk.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 12:02pm Tue 25 Mar 08
We can be part of EFTA without being part of the EEA that is the whole point. It is the EEA which is part of the EU machine not EFTA If we were not part of the EEA we could subsidise our post offices. Switzerland is not part of EEA but still trades and negotiates it's own agreements in and outside Europe. It steadfastly refuses to join, both the EEA and EU and it is doing fine
We can be part of EFTA without being part of the EEA that is the whole point. It is the EEA which is part of the EU machine not EFTA If we were not part of the EEA we could subsidise our post offices. Switzerland is not part of EEA but still trades and negotiates it's own agreements in and outside Europe. It steadfastly refuses to join, both the EEA and EU and it is doing fine
Posted by: P S Altery, Swindon on 1:28pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Robert Feal-Martinez is of course correct, Cllr David Sammels is not, this is why he is a councillor.
Just something I'm picking up on these threads, apart from Donkey is anyone actually going to vote Labour come the general election? I of course shall not, and I suspect very few people shall.
Robert Feal-Martinez is of course correct, Cllr David Sammels is not, this is why he is a councillor.
Just something I'm picking up on these threads, apart from Donkey is anyone actually going to vote Labour come the general election? I of course shall not, and I suspect very few people shall.
Posted by: The builder, Old Town on 1:36pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote] You do have a choice in 5 weeks. Vote UKIP come to our meeting at the Nightingale this Thursday at 7pm. Learn the truth. There will be copies of our Local Manifesto available.[/quote]
Robert,
Please don't try to confuse everyone. The elections in five weeks time are [bold]local council[/bold] elections. If UKIP manage to persuade people to vote for local UKIP candidates, can you explain how those local councillors will be able to take Britain out of europe ? If the present councillors can't even get Anne Snelgrove MP and Micahel Wills MP to even agree with them, I fail to see how suddenly getting a couple of UKIP councillors will make a difference ?
Perhaps it's just me ?
You do have a choice in 5 weeks. Vote UKIP come to our meeting at the Nightingale this Thursday at 7pm. Learn the truth. There will be copies of our Local Manifesto available.
Robert,
Please don't try to confuse everyone. The elections in five weeks time are
local council elections. If UKIP manage to persuade people to vote for local UKIP candidates, can you explain how those local councillors will be able to take Britain out of europe ? If the present councillors can't even get Anne Snelgrove MP and Micahel Wills MP to even agree with them, I fail to see how suddenly getting a couple of UKIP councillors will make a difference ?
Perhaps it's just me ?
Posted by: wales, gwynedd on 4:12pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I remember some years ago a tory MP who stood with the railway men against the closure of Swindon Rail Works and then voted for its closure, so dont think a change of goverment would make much differance.
I remember some years ago a tory MP who stood with the railway men against the closure of Swindon Rail Works and then voted for its closure, so dont think a change of goverment would make much differance.
Posted by: Bill, wootton on 6:33pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Once again we see Robert punting for the decrepit UKIP - a party whose MEPs refuse to disclose how much of our cash they have pocketed - just like Labour and the Tories in fact!
Isn't it high time Robert you told us - or are you still maintaining the fiction that MEPs arn't allowed to tell us how much of our meney they have claimed in "expenses" and such like?
One further point - UKIP had 16 district/borough level councillors NATIONWIDE in 2006 that was reduced to a mere 8 last year. Do you have any realisted expectation of breaking into double figures this May? I ask because I noticed that your London Mayoral hopeful managed a pathetic 3% in a by-election last Thursday on his own turf!
Once again we see Robert punting for the decrepit UKIP - a party whose MEPs refuse to disclose how much of our cash they have pocketed - just like Labour and the Tories in fact!
Isn't it high time Robert you told us - or are you still maintaining the fiction that MEPs arn't allowed to tell us how much of our meney they have claimed in "expenses" and such like?
One further point - UKIP had 16 district/borough level councillors NATIONWIDE in 2006 that was reduced to a mere 8 last year. Do you have any realisted expectation of breaking into double figures this May? I ask because I noticed that your London Mayoral hopeful managed a pathetic 3% in a by-election last Thursday on his own turf!
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 7:49am Wed 26 Mar 08
Bill please keep up your self confessed hatred of UKIP based on 4 years ago. I'm sure those who are now part of UKIP, which I wasn't then, know full well the agenda of other parties and individuals. So as you hate UKIP so much who do you support. Don't be shy, I'm sure we would all like to know. As for expenses, I really do note know how much each MEP has claimed any more than Labour or Tory members know. I do believe there should be open disclosure but as I said that is a matter for the EU to decide. But as I pointed it was a Labour MEP who proposes a complete non disclosure option.
Bill please keep up your self confessed hatred of UKIP based on 4 years ago. I'm sure those who are now part of UKIP, which I wasn't then, know full well the agenda of other parties and individuals. So as you hate UKIP so much who do you support. Don't be shy, I'm sure we would all like to know. As for expenses, I really do note know how much each MEP has claimed any more than Labour or Tory members know. I do believe there should be open disclosure but as I said that is a matter for the EU to decide. But as I pointed it was a Labour MEP who proposes a complete non disclosure option.
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