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No one takes up offer of canal trip
1:22pm Thursday 15th May 2008
Comments (75)AN offer of a free trip to Birmingham for objectors to the Swindon canal project has sunk without a trace.
In April the Wilts and Berks Canal Trust offered a coach trip to see part of the Birmingham canal system as a way of getting their message across to the doubters of the Swindon scheme.
But three weeks after the offer was extended not a single response has been received.
Roy Cartwright, chairman of the Swindon branch of the trust, said: "This is a great disappointment to the trust as we would have liked to show the doubters what has been achieved with urban canals and waterways elsewhere.
"These canals provide enjoyment for all - including tourists, walkers, fishermen, cyclists, and of course canal boaters who contrary to popular belief only make up about three per cent of the members of the public who use canals.
"One lady who wrote to the paper did come into the shop and explain that she had no desire to travel to a canal with us as she had already seen them and still did not want it for Swindon.
"We can all respect the lady's views as we all have our own ideas on what is best for Swindon.
"Therefore we will now be withdrawing our offer of a free trip for dissenters of the canal as our bus would be empty."
A number of supporters of the canal project did express an interest in paying to go on the trip, so an outing may be arranged in the future.
Roy hopes to take councillors and members of the business community along for the ride.
Critics of the £52m canal project fear it will quickly fill with rubbish and attract drunken yobs.
There are also concerns that it will add to potential traffic problems created by the town centre regeneration.
The scheme's supporters counter with the view that it will create £8m a year in tourism revenue.
They also say that it could help change the often negative impression the rest of the country has of Swindon.
At a council meeting in April it was agreed that the council would investigate the scheme in more detail.
The findings will then form the basis of a public poll on the canal.
Anyone interested in going on a future canal trip should sign up at the trust's shop at 1 Theatre Square, opposite the new central library, on Friday or Saturday between 10am and 4pm.
For more information on the trust go to www.wbct.org.uk.
Your Say YourSwindon
john c, swindon says...
2:22pm Thu 15 May 08
Grimaldi, The Big Top says...
2:28pm Thu 15 May 08
yeti wrote:Yeti - Birmingham is not a ****hole, as you so eloquently put it. It has undergone a huge amount of regeneration in the last few years and is a far nicer town/city centre than most I have been to.
are the birmingham canals long existing? the swindon one would have to be created from scratch. birmingham is a **** hole and its no wonder anyone wanted to go. the canal in banbury and the shops around it are nice i'd like to add.
potluck, swindon says...
2:29pm Thu 15 May 08
yeti, swindon says...
2:33pm Thu 15 May 08
Grimaldi wrote:i've been to birmingham loads of times and that is my opinion of the place.
yeti wrote: are the birmingham canals long existing? the swindon one would have to be created from scratch. birmingham is a **** hole and its no wonder anyone wanted to go. the canal in banbury and the shops around it are nice i'd like to add.Yeti - Birmingham is not a ****hole, as you so eloquently put it. It has undergone a huge amount of regeneration in the last few years and is a far nicer town/city centre than most I have been to.
yeti, swindon says...
2:34pm Thu 15 May 08
Grimaldi wrote:i've been to birmingham loads of times and that is my opinion of the place.
yeti wrote: are the birmingham canals long existing? the swindon one would have to be created from scratch. birmingham is a **** hole and its no wonder anyone wanted to go. the canal in banbury and the shops around it are nice i'd like to add.Yeti - Birmingham is not a ****hole, as you so eloquently put it. It has undergone a huge amount of regeneration in the last few years and is a far nicer town/city centre than most I have been to.
fish n nips, Swindon says...
2:40pm Thu 15 May 08
potluck wrote:potluck, canals were in this town long before you and i were around so i suggest if you dont want a canal, why dont you move somewhere where there are lots of nice parks?! or in aother words, any standard town or city. Us Swindonians can then have the canal most residents are looking forward to enjoying.
one good suggestion for those wishing to see a canal be built, and to spend many summers watching people enjoy it. Move to another town and enjoy to your hearts content. we have plenty of fantastic parks in and around swindon that these monies should be spent on, for all the people and not the few who love canals
Richard, Toothill says...
2:43pm Thu 15 May 08
But like I've said before, you should go look at the Huddersfield canal, or the Forth & Clyde, for what happens when you put a canal back in an urban area and do it well. Go look at the Rochdale canal to see how canal works can actually improve road traffic, not worsen it.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
2:47pm Thu 15 May 08
fish n nips wrote:Most residents?
potluck wrote: one good suggestion for those wishing to see a canal be built, and to spend many summers watching people enjoy it. Move to another town and enjoy to your hearts content. we have plenty of fantastic parks in and around swindon that these monies should be spent on, for all the people and not the few who love canalspotluck, canals were in this town long before you and i were around so i suggest if you dont want a canal, why dont you move somewhere where there are lots of nice parks?! or in aother words, any standard town or city. Us Swindonians can then have the canal most residents are looking forward to enjoying.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
2:54pm Thu 15 May 08
Loft Conversions, Swindon says...
2:56pm Thu 15 May 08
It seems that only the usual NIMBYs are against it. And lets face it, these are the same people who object to EVERY new proposal and would like nothing better than for Swindon to remain the functional, mediocre town it currently is.
As a resident of Rodbourne I am very much looking forward to this canal being built. The sooner the better.
Loft Conversions, Swindon says...
2:57pm Thu 15 May 08
It seems that only the usual NIMBYs are against it. And lets face it, these are the same people who object to EVERY new proposal and would like nothing better than for Swindon to remain the functional, mediocre town it currently is.
As a resident of Rodbourne I am very much looking forward to this canal being built. The sooner the better.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
2:57pm Thu 15 May 08
And lets face it, these are the same people who object to EVERY new proposal and would like nothing better than for Swindon to remain the functional, mediocre town it currently is
Not everyone, I personally am against the canal but by all means bring on change just decent change
Another Ginger, without a paddle says...
2:58pm Thu 15 May 08
That aside, I want to support this canal project, but we STILL DON'T HAVE ANSWERS. Where is the traffic going? Who will pay for the maintenance contracts? Will there actually be any maintenance contracts for that matter? There are lots of flashy projects all over the UK that look shiney at opening, but dull and tatty after a few years.
Until we're offered hard proposals, I can't see how support will improve. The naysayers and NIMBYS will continue to thrive and slowly grind down the possibility of turning Swindon into a town with a soul again.
Or perhaps we could become a working museum for '60s planning and architecture?
Cjones1234, Swindon, Peatmoor says...
3:00pm Thu 15 May 08
Most residents?
Funily enough the people who post on the adver are certainly not a majority just the most negative people in swindon.
i say bring it on
Cjones1234, Swindon, Peatmoor says...
3:00pm Thu 15 May 08
Most residents?
Funily enough the people who post on the adver are certainly not a majority just the most negative people in swindon.
i say bring it on
potluck, swindon says...
3:01pm Thu 15 May 08
the former canal route would have less of an impact to the people of swindon than the illogical prposed route.
Up the movement for new railway stations, bring back the line to highworth, forget park and rides the future is by rail
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
3:10pm Thu 15 May 08
Richard wrote:Richard, from a previous thread, you had suggested to me to look at Rochdale/Huddersfiel
Yeti - you are having me on. Banbury's canalside is pretty bland, just the back wall of a shopping centre and a few bridges. Birmingham's canalside has so much more going for it. Other bits of the city might be a hole - though to be honest, people like us in glasshouses (Swindon) shouldn't throw stones - but not the canalside. But like I've said before, you should go look at the Huddersfield canal, or the Forth & Clyde, for what happens when you put a canal back in an urban area and do it well. Go look at the Rochdale canal to see how canal works can actually improve road traffic, not worsen it.
d/forth-Clyde regeneration. I have done some research and the photos do look impressive and as you have said they have improved the traffic issues.
However, I still have issues. In the review document of the Halcrow study to the SBC cabinet which was dated in January 2007 (15 months ago). It was recommended a more detailed study was needed with one of the biggest issues to be resolve was traffic and the completion of the Transport Plan.
Why did it take a council meeting in April 2008 when a motion to stop the project got the Cabinet to agree that a more detailed study was needed, 15th months after the review of the original study.
I disagreed that Labour's motion to stop the project dead but put it to a public referendum. However, the Conservative controled cabinet have sat on the recommendations of a more detailed study for 15 months.
The public don't want vague visions but facts on how this will affect Swindon. So when will the public see the Transport Plan and why was the review sat on for 15 months?
fish n nips, Swindon says...
3:15pm Thu 15 May 08
potluck wrote:potluck, canals were in this town long before you and i were around so i suggest if you dont want a canal, why dont you move somewhere where there are lots of nice parks?! or in aother words, any standard town or city. Us Swindonians can then have the canal most residents are looking forward to enjoying.
one good suggestion for those wishing to see a canal be built, and to spend many summers watching people enjoy it. Move to another town and enjoy to your hearts content. we have plenty of fantastic parks in and around swindon that these monies should be spent on, for all the people and not the few who love canals
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
3:15pm Thu 15 May 08
potluck wrote:I suggested trams and opening a rail station from Moredon Bridges to Justin Tomlinson in his election web debate as an alternative to the canal project. He was going to pass the suggestion to Councillor Bluh but some how I think the suggestion will be quietly put in the bin. :(
yes i agree that there was a canal in swindon, it was part of the heritage and the infrastructure was built around it, only to be filled in by the various councils over the years. if you want to pick holes in my argument, why not bring back the local commuter trains as well, as that is more of a social and environmental issue in these days of trying to be green. the former canal route would have less of an impact to the people of swindon than the illogical prposed route. Up the movement for new railway stations, bring back the line to highworth, forget park and rides the future is by rail
Al Smith, Swindon, UK says...
3:20pm Thu 15 May 08
Birmingham is different to Swindon because all they had to do was clean up their existing canals. In Swindon they'll be closing down roads and digging a brand new canal. A canal that for the foreseeable future will only go from one bit of Swindon to another.
How on earth will having a canal change the perception of Swindon? Milton Keynes and Slough have canals, as far as I know they're not exactly tourist havens with a particularly good image.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:23pm Thu 15 May 08
Cjones1234 wrote:And I assume you've done an extensive survey of Swindon?
Most residents?Funily enough the people who post on the adver are certainly not a majority just the most negative people in swindon. i say bring it on
I thought not. The most extensive survey done so far was of 1,000 people by the Adver, which came out at 60:40 against the canal. As that's the most representative done so far, I'd say that most residents are NOT for the canal.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
3:30pm Thu 15 May 08
potluck, swindon says...
3:34pm Thu 15 May 08
yeti, swindon says...
3:34pm Thu 15 May 08
Richard wrote:birmingham had a massive amout of canal already.a tidy up job is nothing like what is being talked about in swindon.building from scratch is a massive job.
Yeti - you are having me on. Banbury's canalside is pretty bland, just the back wall of a shopping centre and a few bridges. Birmingham's canalside has so much more going for it. Other bits of the city might be a hole - though to be honest, people like us in glasshouses (Swindon) shouldn't throw stones - but not the canalside. But like I've said before, you should go look at the Huddersfield canal, or the Forth & Clyde, for what happens when you put a canal back in an urban area and do it well. Go look at the Rochdale canal to see how canal works can actually improve road traffic, not worsen it.
banbury has been kept simple and looks good.
i'm not anti canal if it can work.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:37pm Thu 15 May 08
potluck wrote:The adver did do a survey in the town center which was a yes-or-no - it was not limited to the website, rather reporters were on the street.
the survey by the adver was not a straight "yes" or "no", yet still gave the 60:40 result against the canal, i have seen the canal in swindon, the branch lines and the heritage disappear, yet i still feel that Swindon with the right development can be a great place again
Cjones1234, Swindon, Peatmoor says...
3:39pm Thu 15 May 08
Posted by: LordBelacqua, Swindon on 3:23pm today
Cjones1234 wrote:And I assume you've done an extensive survey of Swindon? I thought not. The most extensive survey done so far was of 1,000 people by the Adver, which came out at 60:40 against the canal. As that's the most representative done so far, I'd say that most residents are NOT for the canal.Most residents?Funily enough the people who post on the adver are certainly not a majority just the most negative people in swindon. i say bring it on
Cjones1234 wrote:
Most residents?
Funily enough the people who post on the adver are certainly not a majority just the most negative people in swindon. i say bring it on
And I assume you've done an extensive survey of Swindon?
I thought not. The most extensive survey done so far was of 1,000 people by the Adver, which came out at 60:40 against the canal. As that's the most representative done so far, I'd say that most residents are NOT for the canal.
so your saying 1000 people represent the whole of swindon??? im sure theres a few more people i nthe town that that....1000 is a huge minority.and generaly you find that the majority of people who use the adver bords are against the canal.....so no wonder it was 60/40.
Keysey, Swindon says...
3:40pm Thu 15 May 08
Keysey, Swindon says...
3:40pm Thu 15 May 08
Cjones1234, Swindon, Peatmoor says...
3:43pm Thu 15 May 08
Posted by: Keysey, Swindon on 3:40pm today
I agree with you fish and nips. Canals add a bit of character to the town. I thought Swindon was mostly made up of single mothers....I was wrong...single mothers and very small minded people.
I agree with you fish and nips. Canals add a bit of character to the town. I thought Swindon was mostly made up of single mothers....I was wrong...single mothers and very small minded people.
whooop.....hear hear
Dr Bongo, says...
3:43pm Thu 15 May 08
Cjones1234, Swindon, Peatmoor says...
3:43pm Thu 15 May 08
Posted by: Keysey, Swindon on 3:40pm today
I agree with you fish and nips. Canals add a bit of character to the town. I thought Swindon was mostly made up of single mothers....I was wrong...single mothers and very small minded people.
I agree with you fish and nips. Canals add a bit of character to the town. I thought Swindon was mostly made up of single mothers....I was wrong...single mothers and very small minded people.
whooop.....hear hear
Ewan Hughes Army, Swindon says...
3:57pm Thu 15 May 08
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
3:58pm Thu 15 May 08
angry monkey, Swindon says...
4:03pm Thu 15 May 08
And more to the point If someone as thick enough not to have a picture of a canal in their head, why would they want to waste a day of their lives on a bus to birmingham to see one?
Tobz, says...
4:19pm Thu 15 May 08
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:28pm Thu 15 May 08
shall we bring back the locomotives too?
fish n nips, Swindon says...
4:29pm Thu 15 May 08
Tobz wrote:practical, is that all we want for this town? Im totally for a canal not just on economic grounds but to add some character and identity to our town.. its practical to build lots of cheap house in North Swindon but to me, it all looks the same and in time will become as uninspiring as west Swindon is now. A canal will regenerate a large area and give us something to be proud of.
17 years of disruption, demolition and road closures whilst its built and 17 years before it's properly joined to the full network. Until then, its a slowly expanding elongated pond. The question is whether its worth such a long-term investment when there are other more practical things which could be delivered more quickly...?
Al Smith, Swindon, UK says...
4:31pm Thu 15 May 08
Casual Observer, Swindon says...
4:37pm Thu 15 May 08
Tobz wrote:Rome wasn't buit in a day. As for practical, quickly delivered things - we just got a massive new telly and and smart square and everyone moaned about that (well, not quite everyone)
17 years of disruption, demolition and road closures whilst its built and 17 years before it's properly joined to the full network. Until then, its a slowly expanding elongated pond. The question is whether its worth such a long-term investment when there are other more practical things which could be delivered more quickly...?
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:45pm Thu 15 May 08
Cjones1234 wrote:It wasn't on the adver boards!
Posted by: LordBelacqua, Swindon on 3:23pm todayso your saying 1000 people represent the whole of swindon??? im sure theres a few more people i nthe town that that....1000 is a huge minority.and generaly you find that the majority of people who use the adver bords are against the canal.....so no wonder it was 60/40.Cjones1234 wrote:And I assume you've done an extensive survey of Swindon? I thought not. The most extensive survey done so far was of 1,000 people by the Adver, which came out at 60:40 against the canal. As that's the most representative done so far, I'd say that most residents are NOT for the canal. Cjones1234 wrote: Most residents? Funily enough the people who post on the adver are certainly not a majority just the most negative people in swindon. i say bring it on And I assume you've done an extensive survey of Swindon? I thought not. The most extensive survey done so far was of 1,000 people by the Adver, which came out at 60:40 against the canal. As that's the most representative done so far, I'd say that most residents are NOT for the canal.Most residents?Funily enough the people who post on the adver are certainly not a majority just the most negative people in swindon. i say bring it on
It was adver reporters in the town center asking people if they'd like to see the canal!
As it stands that is the most representative survey done so far - it's completely illogical to claim that most residents are in favour without figures to back it up - it's sloppy and insulting.
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
4:45pm Thu 15 May 08
Casual Observer wrote:If you say 3 years of planning and then construction is quick. I agree that Wharf Green does look good, bet that SBC were cursing the England football team when they got knocked out! ;0)
Tobz wrote: 17 years of disruption, demolition and road closures whilst its built and 17 years before it's properly joined to the full network. Until then, its a slowly expanding elongated pond. The question is whether its worth such a long-term investment when there are other more practical things which could be delivered more quickly...?Rome wasn't buit in a day. As for practical, quickly delivered things - we just got a massive new telly and and smart square and everyone moaned about that (well, not quite everyone)
Casual Observer, Swindon says...
4:56pm Thu 15 May 08
DarkAuror wrote:It does look great, and if they make as good a job with the canal I think it'll be a definite winner.
Casual Observer wrote:If you say 3 years of planning and then construction is quick. I agree that Wharf Green does look good, bet that SBC were cursing the England football team when they got knocked out! ;0)
Tobz wrote: 17 years of disruption, demolition and road closures whilst its built and 17 years before it's properly joined to the full network. Until then, its a slowly expanding elongated pond. The question is whether its worth such a long-term investment when there are other more practical things which could be delivered more quickly...?Rome wasn't buit in a day. As for practical, quickly delivered things - we just got a massive new telly and and smart square and everyone moaned about that (well, not quite everyone)
Let's have it! (sorry Tobz for that non-cogent argument ;¬)
WTF?, Swindon says...
5:01pm Thu 15 May 08
Grimaldi: Birmingham is not a ****hole, as you so eloquently put it. It has undergone a huge amount of regeneration in the last few years and is a far nicer town/city centre than most I have been to.
Yeah right. Just type in 'Birmingham Crime Figures' into Google and tell me again how nice the place is.
AND: Web Team you're wrong as usual. You have no idea whether I was at the Walcot meeting last night. You didn't ask for usernames as people entered the 'dome' did you! Idiots.
Keysey, Swindon says...
5:29pm Thu 15 May 08
Donkey, Swindon says...
5:47pm Thu 15 May 08
Tha Swindon Advertiser has made the Guinness Book Of Records for the number of times a single, trivial piece of local dreamy fantasy can be turned into (re-hashed, or is it re-hacked?) a fresh article.
Also, there is a special award for the number of Comments Board entries that say exactly the same thing over and over again! So let's give ourselves a clap!
Well done, indeed, from The Donkey!
I would love a circular route for a canal, but Town Centre ... NO!
Incidentally, Blue Rod's got his own Adver column promoting how marvellous his little crowd are, is he a member of the NUJ now? He'll be linking up with Justin and starting his own daily if you give hime too much encouragement ... after all, he doesn't even mention the canal since he's lit the blue touch paper!
Also, putting the cat amongst the pigeons ... I personally do not like the modernist extension to the Town Hall, I think some are calling it a 'white elephant, I mean 'Library' ... what a waste of opportunity to create something grand for this town.
vigil, swindon says...
6:58pm Thu 15 May 08
People need to conserve money in current times.
Loft Conversions, Swindon says...
8:20pm Thu 15 May 08
It might take 10 years, but it'll happen, believe me.
WTF?, Swindon says...
9:08pm Thu 15 May 08
Loft Conversions wrote:Oh grow up.
I have it on good authority that the canal will happen. Plans are a lot further down the line than people think. It might take 10 years, but it'll happen, believe me.
You know nothing.
If plans are further down the line then they need to start work within ten years for any approved plans to be legal.
PeeGee, Swindon says...
9:11pm Thu 15 May 08
No rebuff from Cllr Just Tom to Donkey's politicising of urban waterways?
Only Joe Public putting views across (Donkey excepted)?
How disappointing. This article resembles comments boards of other local papers across the country. How unlike Swindon.
TonyJanson, Chippenham says...
10:32pm Thu 15 May 08
SpeakUp, Swindon says...
3:10am Fri 16 May 08
TonyJanson wrote:Forgotten? I suspect we never will. And as we have more drunks and druggies now, a longer water feature would give them all room to sit along it. Great plan.
I remember an expensive and ridiculous water feature in the town some 20/30 years ago - since demolished and forgotten. I wonder how many in the 40% canvassed realise that the Canal will not be a free installation ? I also wonder how long it will be before Swindon`s second canal is filled in ? Swindonians have such fun !
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
8:29am Fri 16 May 08
Loft Conversions wrote:Has your source told when the council are going to complete the Transport Plan? This Plan needs to be approved by Highway Agency and HMG before any Canal plan can go ahead.
I have it on good authority that the canal will happen. Plans are a lot further down the line than people think. It might take 10 years, but it'll happen, believe me.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
8:46am Fri 16 May 08
Cjones1234, Swindon, Peatmoor says...
9:11am Fri 16 May 08
It wasn't on the adver boards!
It was adver reporters in the town center asking people if they'd like to see the canal!
As it stands that is the most representative survey done so far - it's completely illogical to claim that most residents are in favour without figures to back it up - it's sloppy and insulting.
you still cant claim that 1000 people represent a majority. this subject is so controversial it needs to go to a proper vote.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
9:14am Fri 16 May 08
you still cant claim that 1000 people represent a majority. this subject is so controversial it needs to go to a proper vote.
So why are people (including yourself) claiming that the majority of people are in favour, when I can't use a vote that would suggest the opposite according to your rules?
emmylou83, Stratton says...
9:20am Fri 16 May 08
AND: Web Team you're wrong as usual. You have no idea whether I was at the Wal
yeti, swindon says...
2:19pm Thu 15 May 08
the swindon one would have to be created from scratch.
birmingham is a **** hole and its no wonder anyone wanted to go.
the canal in banbury and the shops around it are nice i'd like to add.