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MP offers last-ditch hope for Arnel Cabrera
ARNEL Cabrera could be allowed to return to the UK with his son if last-ditch talks are successful.
The 38-year-old boarded a flight back to the Philippines on Tuesday, but behind the scenes there has been a furious last-minute drive to over-turn a Home Office decision to reject his visa application.
Anne Snelgrove, the South Swindon MP, held a two-hour meeting on Tuesday night with Home Office minister Liam Byrne to try to overturn the decision.
She said the minister was sympathetic to Arnel's plight and was seriously considering the arguments put forward.
She said: "We have put a different and more compelling reason to the minister for Arnel to remain here.
"The crux of the matter is that Mr Cabrera would have had the right to remain in this country if his wife had lived.
"The deal was that after five years of service as a nurse Mrs Cabrera would have been allowed to stay and so would her family.
"That is where we have let Arnel down badly - by saying that because his wife died he now has to leave the country.
"I think we put forward a very strong case and I hope the minister is sympathetic to that."
Mrs Snelgrove said the argument previously pursued by lawyers acting for Mr Cabrera had been a "bit of a dead end".
The appeal turned down by the Home Office had centred around article eight of the Human Rights Act, which offers protection for a person's private and family life.
Mrs Snelgrove believes the fact that Arnel has now returned to the Philippines will not harm the appeal.
She said: "At this stage it is immaterial if Arnel is in the country or not because if the appeal is successful he can apply for a visa from the Philippines.
"For now it's important that he is with his son to celebrate his birthday then, hopefully, they can both come back to the UK."
Arnel, who himself worked at the GWH as an assistant technical officer, has always maintained that it had been his wife's wish to raise their son in Swindon.
Swindon and Marlborough NHS Trust admitted liability for Mayra being administered Bupivacaine intravenously in May 2004. She died just an hour after giving birth to the couple's son Zac at the Great Western Hospital.
She suffered a heart attack, which a post-mortem later confirmed had been caused by drug toxicity.
Arnel, who had been living with friends in Eldene following the inquest into his wife's death, had given the Home Office a deadline of Wednesday to allow him to stay.
He decided to leave quietly on Tuesday to go back to the Philippines to celebrate Zac's fourth birthday.
1:21pm Friday 16th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Frontier(s) on 1:54pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote]""The crux of the matter is that Mr Cabrera would have had the right to remain in this country if his wife had lived."[/quote]
But, surely the [italic]real[/italic] crux of the matter is: she didn't.
Mind you, maybe we'll see yet another government U-turn!
I guess it's got that desperate that Labour MPs will do just about anything... even for one vote.
""The crux of the matter is that Mr Cabrera would have had the right to remain in this country if his wife had lived."
But, surely the
real crux of the matter is: she didn't.
Mind you, maybe we'll see yet another government U-turn!
I guess it's got that desperate that Labour MPs will do just about anything... even for one vote.
Posted by: Meldrews Dad, Wroughton on 2:10pm Fri 16 May 08
Where are the moderators on this comment forum? Free speech is one thing but racist snipes and inuendo is totally unacceptable.
After such a tradegy one can only pray for this poor man and his child. He needs to know that the people of Swindon, with the exception of a few, a decent people who wish them well.
Unlike many who are allowed to stay he wants to work and has no plans or desires to blow any of us up.
Perhaps Mrs Snelgrove would like to tell the home office that the people here say "welcome back".
Where are the moderators on this comment forum? Free speech is one thing but racist snipes and inuendo is totally unacceptable.
After such a tradegy one can only pray for this poor man and his child. He needs to know that the people of Swindon, with the exception of a few, a decent people who wish them well.
Unlike many who are allowed to stay he wants to work and has no plans or desires to blow any of us up.
Perhaps Mrs Snelgrove would like to tell the home office that the people here say "welcome back".
Posted by: steve-o, Swindon on 2:15pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Pav[/bold] wrote:
The Home Office should get Mr Cabrera to write a list of "10 reasons why Swindon is better than the Philippines". I bet he gives up before he gets to number four.[/quote] You reckon that many!!
Pav wrote:
The Home Office should get Mr Cabrera to write a list of "10 reasons why Swindon is better than the Philippines". I bet he gives up before he gets to number four.
You reckon that many!!
Posted by: malkym on 2:30pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]steve-o[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Pav[/bold] wrote: The Home Office should get Mr Cabrera to write a list of "10 reasons why Swindon is better than the Philippines". I bet he gives up before he gets to number four.[/quote] You reckon that many!![/quote] 1. More Roundabouts, 2. Two great local hard working MPS who continualy ignore the party line and always vote for local issues, 3.A better footy team 4 err.........err.....
.
steve-o wrote:
Pav wrote: The Home Office should get Mr Cabrera to write a list of "10 reasons why Swindon is better than the Philippines". I bet he gives up before he gets to number four.
You reckon that many!!
1. More Roundabouts, 2. Two great local hard working MPS who continualy ignore the party line and always vote for local issues, 3.A better footy team 4 err.........err.....
.
Posted by: steve-o, Swindon on 2:37pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]malkym[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]steve-o[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Pav[/bold] wrote: The Home Office should get Mr Cabrera to write a list of "10 reasons why Swindon is better than the Philippines". I bet he gives up before he gets to number four.[/quote] You reckon that many!![/quote] 1. More Roundabouts, 2. Two great local hard working MPS who continualy ignore the party line and always vote for local issues, 3.A better footy team 4 err.........err..... .[/quote] oi no knocking the Town, invested too much money there.
Is that not the kiss of death tho, Anne Snelgrove is taking it further.
Bye Bye
malkym wrote:
steve-o wrote: Pav wrote: The Home Office should get Mr Cabrera to write a list of "10 reasons why Swindon is better than the Philippines". I bet he gives up before he gets to number four.
You reckon that many!!
1. More Roundabouts, 2. Two great local hard working MPS who continualy ignore the party line and always vote for local issues, 3.A better footy team 4 err.........err..... .
oi no knocking the Town, invested too much money there.
Is that not the kiss of death tho, Anne Snelgrove is taking it further.
Bye Bye
Posted by: yeti, swindon on 2:38pm Fri 16 May 08
i hope sense is seen and he is allowed to stay.the bloke has had a terribly raw deal from britain so far.
i hope sense is seen and he is allowed to stay.the bloke has had a terribly raw deal from britain so far.
Posted by: malkym on 2:47pm Fri 16 May 08
No Steve not knocking Town! Mind you we'll never hear the last of it if B'Anne'D wagon succeeds - she'd think that 'd be her ticket to re-election BUT dream on in that respect I say!
No Steve not knocking Town! Mind you we'll never hear the last of it if B'Anne'D wagon succeeds - she'd think that 'd be her ticket to re-election BUT dream on in that respect I say!
Posted by: dolly daydream on 3:05pm Fri 16 May 08
Pav wrote: The Home Office should get Mr Cabrera to write a list of "10 reasons why Swindon is better than the Philippines". I bet he gives up before he gets to number four.
Ha ha ha, brilliant. Cheered up my boring friday afternoon :)
Pav wrote: The Home Office should get Mr Cabrera to write a list of "10 reasons why Swindon is better than the Philippines". I bet he gives up before he gets to number four.
Ha ha ha, brilliant. Cheered up my boring friday afternoon :)
Posted by: steve-o, Swindon on 3:10pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]malkym[/bold] wrote:
No Steve not knocking Town! Mind you we'll never hear the last of it if B'Anne'D wagon succeeds - she'd think that 'd be her ticket to re-election BUT dream on in that respect I say![/quote] Know you r not knocking mate.
Dunno about dream of re-election, that falls into nightmare scenario . Yeh??
malkym wrote:
No Steve not knocking Town! Mind you we'll never hear the last of it if B'Anne'D wagon succeeds - she'd think that 'd be her ticket to re-election BUT dream on in that respect I say!
Know you r not knocking mate.
Dunno about dream of re-election, that falls into nightmare scenario . Yeh??
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 3:18pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]malkym[/bold] wrote:
No Steve not knocking Town! Mind you we'll never hear the last of it if B'Anne'D wagon succeeds - she'd think that 'd be her ticket to re-election BUT dream on in that respect I say![/quote] The government are in such dire straits, and MPs are so worried about their seats, that it wouldn't surprise me if NuBruin has given carte blanche to government departments to pretty much do as Labour MPs ask at the moment.
This could, therefore, be one of those very rare occasions where Snelgrove is successful.
It appears from some posts here that many can't distinguish between the law of the land and raw emotion - still, given the state of this country, that doesn't surprise me much.
Again, nobody is saying this man hasn't had a tough time of it - but that in no way gives him any legal right to become a British citizen whatsoever.
malkym wrote:
No Steve not knocking Town! Mind you we'll never hear the last of it if B'Anne'D wagon succeeds - she'd think that 'd be her ticket to re-election BUT dream on in that respect I say!
The government are in such dire straits, and MPs are so worried about their seats, that it wouldn't surprise me if NuBruin has given carte blanche to government departments to pretty much do as Labour MPs ask at the moment.
This could, therefore, be one of those very rare occasions where Snelgrove is successful.
It appears from some posts here that many can't distinguish between the law of the land and raw emotion - still, given the state of this country, that doesn't surprise me much.
Again, nobody is saying this man hasn't had a tough time of it - but that in no way gives him any legal right to become a British citizen whatsoever.
Posted by: BWB, SWINDON on 4:07pm Fri 16 May 08
Three out of ten
comments.
Thats what i call hogging the forum.
Yes you know who you are.
Three out of ten
comments.
Thats what i call hogging the forum.
Yes you know who you are.
Posted by: Grumpy, Swindon on 4:26pm Fri 16 May 08
The odious Snelgrove should be campaigning to keep him out rather than the other way round.
This man has no right to be here any more than the other 2 million illegal immigrants that should be deported.
The odious Snelgrove should be campaigning to keep him out rather than the other way round.
This man has no right to be here any more than the other 2 million illegal immigrants that should be deported.
Posted by: Cjones1234, Swindon, Peatmoor on 4:51pm Fri 16 May 08
effectivley our country killed his wife and tore his family apart.....law of the land should right this off i personally would expect the same.
effectivley our country killed his wife and tore his family apart.....law of the land should right this off i personally would expect the same.
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 5:10pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Cjones1234[/bold] wrote:
effectivley our country killed his wife and tore his family apart.....law of the land should right this off i personally would expect the same.[/quote] But why should that mean he doesn't want to live in the country he was born and raised in?
Cjones1234 wrote:
effectivley our country killed his wife and tore his family apart.....law of the land should right this off i personally would expect the same.
But why should that mean he doesn't want to live in the country he was born and raised in?
Posted by: SHEEPHEAD, SWINDON on 5:15pm Fri 16 May 08
The law of the land may say he should not stay it also says that any ilegales should be sent home.How many are there in this country? As usual if it is easy they take action.This man has done everything he should and was happy living here.Then tragedy his life was torn apart.How does the caring country react kick him out.I am sorry if you are one of those 100% law abiding citizens but you are wrong.He should have been allowed to stay without any question.So stop whinging and support him.
The law of the land may say he should not stay it also says that any ilegales should be sent home.How many are there in this country? As usual if it is easy they take action.This man has done everything he should and was happy living here.Then tragedy his life was torn apart.How does the caring country react kick him out.I am sorry if you are one of those 100% law abiding citizens but you are wrong.He should have been allowed to stay without any question.So stop whinging and support him.
Posted by: I Too Could Be a Councillor, Swindon on 5:18pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote]But why should that mean he doesn't want to live in the country he was born and raised in?[/quote]
Perhaps they've got a Labour Government "on the way in".
I blame Labour
But why should that mean he doesn't want to live in the country he was born and raised in?
Perhaps they've got a Labour Government "on the way in".
I blame Labour
Posted by: SHEEPHEAD, SWINDON on 5:29pm Fri 16 May 08
And what exactly did the Torys do last time they were in.They caused the mess we are in.They made most of the immigration laws.This is not a political issue it is a Human Right issue.
And what exactly did the Torys do last time they were in.They caused the mess we are in.They made most of the immigration laws.This is not a political issue it is a Human Right issue.
Posted by: mr big, Swindon on 5:35pm Fri 16 May 08
I know, he should stand on the corner of station road preech how much he hates us UK citizens and how we should all be blown up. Then I bet he can stay. Sorted (I should be a MP)
I know, he should stand on the corner of station road preech how much he hates us UK citizens and how we should all be blown up. Then I bet he can stay. Sorted (I should be a MP)
Posted by: I Too Could Be a Councillor, Swindon on 5:45pm Fri 16 May 08
(I should be an MP)
What are tour policies on Aviaion, Motorbikes, and rock 'n' Roll?
(I should be an MP)
What are tour policies on Aviaion, Motorbikes, and rock 'n' Roll?
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 6:05pm Fri 16 May 08
No one has actually explained how he was able to work at GWH without a visa/work permit. We keep getting told he was here because of his wife, does that anyone who comes in with their direct family on one work permit can get jobs, benefits etc. I have said before had this gentleman so wished he could have applied for legal residence on his own account, but chose not to. So now Anne is also a legal expert, or do I detect a bit of skuldugery here. Could it just be the HO Manderins have said to Anne,, try, this to get him back.
No one has actually explained how he was able to work at GWH without a visa/work permit. We keep getting told he was here because of his wife, does that anyone who comes in with their direct family on one work permit can get jobs, benefits etc. I have said before had this gentleman so wished he could have applied for legal residence on his own account, but chose not to. So now Anne is also a legal expert, or do I detect a bit of skuldugery here. Could it just be the HO Manderins have said to Anne,, try, this to get him back.
Posted by: who dat? on 7:26pm Fri 16 May 08
"No one has actually explained how he was able to work at GWH without a visa/work permit. "
AND HOW MANY ARE STILL WORKING THEIR WITHOUT PERMITS?
"No one has actually explained how he was able to work at GWH without a visa/work permit. "
AND HOW MANY ARE STILL WORKING THEIR WITHOUT PERMITS?
Posted by: WTF?, Swindon on 8:09pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Meldrews Dad:[/bold] Perhaps Mrs Snelgrove would like to tell the home office that the people here say "welcome back".[/quote]
No they do NOT.
There is no reason for this untalented man to return to the UK.
His child doesn't even live with him, he went 'home' ages ago to live with relatives. The only reason 'Arnel' wants to come back is so that 'Arnel' can live in a free house on benefits.
There is absolutely NO reason why this man should come back, there is nothing here for him other than a free ride and that should NOT be a reason.
Anyone that supports this mans claim is unbelievably mad and obviously has no respect for GREAT Britain. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Meldrews Dad: Perhaps Mrs Snelgrove would like to tell the home office that the people here say "welcome back".
No they do NOT.
There is no reason for this untalented man to return to the UK.
His child doesn't even live with him, he went 'home' ages ago to live with relatives. The only reason 'Arnel' wants to come back is so that 'Arnel' can live in a free house on benefits.
There is absolutely NO reason why this man should come back, there is nothing here for him other than a free ride and that should NOT be a reason.
Anyone that supports this mans claim is unbelievably mad and obviously has no respect for GREAT Britain. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 9:33pm Fri 16 May 08
WTF says:
Anyone that supports this mans claim is unbelievably mad and obviously has no respect for GREAT Britain. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Mum says
reverse that WTF Great Britain should let this man and his son stay! (still love ya WTF x)
WTF says:
Anyone that supports this mans claim is unbelievably mad and obviously has no respect for GREAT Britain. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Mum says
reverse that WTF Great Britain should let this man and his son stay! (still love ya WTF x)
Posted by: WTF?, Swindon on 9:46pm Fri 16 May 08
Why should they let him stay?
Why should they let him stay?
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 10:00pm Fri 16 May 08
Why should they make him go?
Why should they make him go?
Posted by: kyoceran, swindon on 10:43pm Fri 16 May 08
Apart the Xenophobics, this man and his family were invited into this country to fill a glaring whole in the provision of staff in the Nhs, unfortunately events conspired to create an absurb situation where a genuine migrant family has been denied tenure, yet the less savoury people who have arrived here have had various courts deny them repatriation. Crime does pay. Our sympathies go to this man and his Family, we should be ashamed of ourselves for casting aside this family. The way forward would be for the powers that be , recognise the poor fortune of this well minded family and welcome them into this community.
Apart the Xenophobics, this man and his family were invited into this country to fill a glaring whole in the provision of staff in the Nhs, unfortunately events conspired to create an absurb situation where a genuine migrant family has been denied tenure, yet the less savoury people who have arrived here have had various courts deny them repatriation. Crime does pay. Our sympathies go to this man and his Family, we should be ashamed of ourselves for casting aside this family. The way forward would be for the powers that be , recognise the poor fortune of this well minded family and welcome them into this community.
Posted by: Swindon Local, Swindon, Wiltshire on 6:03am Sat 17 May 08
This guy is illegaly in the UK, sponging from us and our taxes. Quicker he gets deported the better. Once deported he should never be allowed to return.
This guy is illegaly in the UK, sponging from us and our taxes. Quicker he gets deported the better. Once deported he should never be allowed to return.
Posted by: ras, town on 6:08am Sat 17 May 08
if the home office/goverment get 1..just 1 thing right this year then let it be that arnel and his son can come back here!
why he was even sent back is beyond belief. for gods sake let the poor guy try to make the best of his life with his young son, now hes lost his wife and the child has lost his mother due to nhs NEGLIGENCE!
**LET HIM COME BACK**
if the home office/goverment get 1..just 1 thing right this year then let it be that arnel and his son can come back here!
why he was even sent back is beyond belief. for gods sake let the poor guy try to make the best of his life with his young son, now hes lost his wife and the child has lost his mother due to nhs NEGLIGENCE!
**LET HIM COME BACK**
Posted by: Swindon Local, Swindon, Wiltshire on 8:33am Sat 17 May 08
Why .. he is ILLEGALY in this country. Britain has gone SOFT on illegal immigrants. And the do gooders are not helping.
Why .. he is ILLEGALY in this country. Britain has gone SOFT on illegal immigrants. And the do gooders are not helping.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 8:37am Sat 17 May 08
It's interesting that no one has mentioned, probably because of fear of being branded a racist, that the midwife who gave the incorrect application of the drug was not of these shores either.
It's interesting that no one has mentioned, probably because of fear of being branded a racist, that the midwife who gave the incorrect application of the drug was not of these shores either.
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 9:05am Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Mumstheword[/bold] wrote:
Why should they make him go?[/quote] Because he was here [italic]illegally[/italic].
Mumstheworld, you worry me. You're the mother of six children who will take their cues in life from you and yet in this instance you're advocating allowing an illegal immigrant to stay in the UK and in another story you supported a man who deliberately made a criminal of him and his wife in the Phillipines.
Why do you consistently support illegal acts and do you advise your children to do the same?
Mumstheword wrote:
Why should they make him go?
Because he was here
illegally.
Mumstheworld, you worry me. You're the mother of six children who will take their cues in life from you and yet in this instance you're advocating allowing an illegal immigrant to stay in the UK and in another story you supported a man who deliberately made a criminal of him and his wife in the Phillipines.
Why do you consistently support illegal acts and do you advise your children to do the same?
Posted by: WTF?, Swindon on 9:36am Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Mumstheword[/bold] wrote:
Why should they make him go?[/quote] He's gone.
Why do we now have to pay for him to come back into a country which doesn't speak his language and that he can offer nothing to as he's unskilled.
We will be paying for him and his Son for the rest of their lives.
Just imagine:
His son will be growing up here in a non-English speaking household, he then has to go to an 'English' school and learn our language. He will inevitably struggle, which in turn will have an effect of the time his teacher has available for the English speaking children, those who deserve our education, so a TA will be brought it, at an expense to us tax payers of around £10,000 pa + for 16 years.
Now MumsTheWord put forward your argument as to why he should 'come back'?
Mumstheword wrote:
Why should they make him go?
He's gone.
Why do we now have to pay for him to come back into a country which doesn't speak his language and that he can offer nothing to as he's unskilled.
We will be paying for him and his Son for the rest of their lives.
Just imagine:
His son will be growing up here in a non-English speaking household, he then has to go to an 'English' school and learn our language. He will inevitably struggle, which in turn will have an effect of the time his teacher has available for the English speaking children, those who deserve our education, so a TA will be brought it, at an expense to us tax payers of around £10,000 pa + for 16 years.
Now MumsTheWord put forward your argument as to why he should 'come back'?
Posted by: I Too Could Be a Councillor, Swindon on 3:07pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote]This guy is illegaly in the UK, sponging from us and our taxes. Quicker he gets deported the better. Once deported he should never be allowed to return.[/quote]
That's weird!
I thought he was also working, for the hospital that killed his wife
This guy is illegaly in the UK, sponging from us and our taxes. Quicker he gets deported the better. Once deported he should never be allowed to return.
That's weird!
I thought he was also working, for the hospital that killed his wife
Posted by: WTF?, Swindon on 3:26pm Sat 17 May 08
He was but only allowed to be in the UK 'with her' on her visa.
Therefore, when she died he had no rights to be here and he didn't bother getting his own visa, whilst social services tried to find suitable 'parents' to look after the child.
He was but only allowed to be in the UK 'with her' on her visa.
Therefore, when she died he had no rights to be here and he didn't bother getting his own visa, whilst social services tried to find suitable 'parents' to look after the child.
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 6:28pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]I Too Could Be a Councillor[/bold] wrote:
[quote]This guy is illegaly in the UK, sponging from us and our taxes. Quicker he gets deported the better. Once deported he should never be allowed to return.[/quote] That's weird! I thought he was also working, for the hospital that killed his wife[/quote] Strange that he'd want to stay here in that case.
If a country/state had killed my wife and I had a homeland to return to, that's just what I'd do.
To all the supporters of Mr Cabrera, one question: why do you [italic]really[/italic] think he's so keen to live in the UK, the country that killed his wife?
I Too Could Be a Councillor wrote:
This guy is illegaly in the UK, sponging from us and our taxes. Quicker he gets deported the better. Once deported he should never be allowed to return.
That's weird! I thought he was also working, for the hospital that killed his wife
Strange that he'd want to stay here in that case.
If a country/state had killed my wife and I had a homeland to return to, that's just what I'd do.
To all the supporters of Mr Cabrera, one question: why do you
really think he's so keen to live in the UK, the country that killed his wife?
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 11:26pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Frontier(s)[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Mumstheword[/bold] wrote: Why should they make him go?[/quote] Because he was here [italic]illegally[/italic]. Mumstheworld, you worry me. You're the mother of six children who will take their cues in life from you and yet in this instance you're advocating allowing an illegal immigrant to stay in the UK and in another story you supported a man who deliberately made a criminal of him and his wife in the Phillipines. Why do you consistently support illegal acts and do you advise your children to do the same? [/quote] My children will hopefully grow up to have compassion for fellow human beings. I want them to understand that we all sometimes make mistakes, but it's how we deal with them and how we learn from them that is crucial. If that makes me a bad mother big mac Bloody sack me! My kids wont grow up with my opinions. They will be taught to make informed opnions and choices of their own. They are not sheep, they are children!
Frontier(s) wrote:
Mumstheword wrote: Why should they make him go?
Because he was here illegally. Mumstheworld, you worry me. You're the mother of six children who will take their cues in life from you and yet in this instance you're advocating allowing an illegal immigrant to stay in the UK and in another story you supported a man who deliberately made a criminal of him and his wife in the Phillipines. Why do you consistently support illegal acts and do you advise your children to do the same?
My children will hopefully grow up to have compassion for fellow human beings. I want them to understand that we all sometimes make mistakes, but it's how we deal with them and how we learn from them that is crucial. If that makes me a bad mother big mac Bloody sack me! My kids wont grow up with my opinions. They will be taught to make informed opnions and choices of their own. They are not sheep, they are children!
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 11:28pm Sat 17 May 08
I would like to add that not all laws are just and they do get changed.
I would like to add that not all laws are just and they do get changed.
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 11:38pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]WTF?[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Mumstheword[/bold] wrote: Why should they make him go?[/quote] He's gone. Why do we now have to pay for him to come back into a country which doesn't speak his language and that he can offer nothing to as he's unskilled. We will be paying for him and his Son for the rest of their lives. Just imagine: His son will be growing up here in a non-English speaking household, he then has to go to an 'English' school and learn our language. He will inevitably struggle, which in turn will have an effect of the time his teacher has available for the English speaking children, those who deserve our education, so a TA will be brought it, at an expense to us tax payers of around £10,000 pa + for 16 years. Now MumsTheWord put forward your argument as to why he should 'come back'?[/quote] How do you know that he does not speak our language? Do you have evidence of this?
Non english speaking children receive extra support at school so that other children do not suffer, I know this as a fact as I am a governor at the school. As for a Ta being brought in, well you could argue that bringing children like this into the country creates jobs for our people.
He should come back because both him and his wife came over here and worked. He may have been unskilled but he worked, he didn't claim benefits. Hard working people like this deserve a chance. Particularly when they have suffered such a tragedy as Arnel's. I say bring him back, train him up and get him a job. Give him and his son the same chance that they would of had if his wife had not died due to a tragic mistake.
WTF? wrote:
Mumstheword wrote: Why should they make him go?
He's gone. Why do we now have to pay for him to come back into a country which doesn't speak his language and that he can offer nothing to as he's unskilled. We will be paying for him and his Son for the rest of their lives. Just imagine: His son will be growing up here in a non-English speaking household, he then has to go to an 'English' school and learn our language. He will inevitably struggle, which in turn will have an effect of the time his teacher has available for the English speaking children, those who deserve our education, so a TA will be brought it, at an expense to us tax payers of around £10,000 pa + for 16 years. Now MumsTheWord put forward your argument as to why he should 'come back'?
How do you know that he does not speak our language? Do you have evidence of this?
Non english speaking children receive extra support at school so that other children do not suffer, I know this as a fact as I am a governor at the school. As for a Ta being brought in, well you could argue that bringing children like this into the country creates jobs for our people.
He should come back because both him and his wife came over here and worked. He may have been unskilled but he worked, he didn't claim benefits. Hard working people like this deserve a chance. Particularly when they have suffered such a tragedy as Arnel's. I say bring him back, train him up and get him a job. Give him and his son the same chance that they would of had if his wife had not died due to a tragic mistake.
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 10:27am Sun 18 May 08
[quote][bold]Mumstheword[/bold] wrote:
I would like to add that not all laws are just and they do get changed.[/quote] But that doesn't mean you can simply break the ones you don't like on the off-chance they might someday be changed.
You seem to be confusing having an opinion and making informed choices with plain old breaking the law and criminality.
By the way, you infer that letting Mr Cabrera stay in the UK would be 'compassionate'. Could you tell me what is uncompassionate about a person returning home to the country they were born and lived in for 90% of their life?
He won't be tortured there, he won't be harmed there and he won't suffer there. In fact, he'll be a nice long distance away from the country that killed his wife. Why is that such a terrible thing?
Mumstheword wrote:
I would like to add that not all laws are just and they do get changed.
But that doesn't mean you can simply break the ones you don't like on the off-chance they might someday be changed.
You seem to be confusing having an opinion and making informed choices with plain old breaking the law and criminality.
By the way, you infer that letting Mr Cabrera stay in the UK would be 'compassionate'. Could you tell me what is uncompassionate about a person returning home to the country they were born and lived in for 90% of their life?
He won't be tortured there, he won't be harmed there and he won't suffer there. In fact, he'll be a nice long distance away from the country that killed his wife. Why is that such a terrible thing?
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 1:07pm Sun 18 May 08
By the way, you infer that letting Mr Cabrera stay in the UK would be 'compassionate'. Could you tell me what is uncompassionate about a person returning home to the country they were born and lived in for 90% of their life?
What is uncompassionate is the fact that we allowed him here in the first place. We said "welcome, come to England with your wife, she has a skill." Then, "Oh dear, we killed your wife by accident now you had best bugger off back home!"
Please don't start telling me life is not fair! I already know that.
By the way, you infer that letting Mr Cabrera stay in the UK would be 'compassionate'. Could you tell me what is uncompassionate about a person returning home to the country they were born and lived in for 90% of their life?
What is uncompassionate is the fact that we allowed him here in the first place. We said "welcome, come to England with your wife, she has a skill." Then, "Oh dear, we killed your wife by accident now you had best bugger off back home!"
Please don't start telling me life is not fair! I already know that.
Posted by: yeti, swindon on 4:45pm Sun 18 May 08
i'm with mums on this.the bloke was wanted here and contrary to the comments saying he was here illegally is complete nonsense.he was here perfectly legally and has now left as he is no longer allowed to stay.
the poor bloke is trying to give his child the best opportunity for a good upbringing.the least we brits can do is give the bloke a break.he is the type of person we should be welcoming.if his wife didn't die it wouldn't even be an issue.
i'm with mums on this.the bloke was wanted here and contrary to the comments saying he was here illegally is complete nonsense.he was here perfectly legally and has now left as he is no longer allowed to stay.
the poor bloke is trying to give his child the best opportunity for a good upbringing.the least we brits can do is give the bloke a break.he is the type of person we should be welcoming.if his wife didn't die it wouldn't even be an issue.
Posted by: WTF?, Swindon on 10:01pm Sun 18 May 08
Have any of you stopped and asked yourselves why his 'son' wasn't living with him?
Why was his son in the Phillipines with relatives?
You lot are so naive. You think everything bad happens to nice people don't you.
Have any of you stopped and asked yourselves why his 'son' wasn't living with him?
Why was his son in the Phillipines with relatives?
You lot are so naive. You think everything bad happens to nice people don't you.
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 9:14am Mon 19 May 08
Why was his son in the Phillipines with relatives?
I don't know the answer, do you WTF, if so perhaps you could put us all in the picture?
You lot are so naive. You think everything bad happens to nice people don't you.
Actually no I don't. I have not made my mind up on that one, although I would like to believe the Dharmachakra wheel works.
Why was his son in the Phillipines with relatives?
I don't know the answer, do you WTF, if so perhaps you could put us all in the picture?
You lot are so naive. You think everything bad happens to nice people don't you.
Actually no I don't. I have not made my mind up on that one, although I would like to believe the Dharmachakra wheel works.
Posted by: Terence, Swindon on 10:34am Mon 19 May 08
[quote][bold]Robert Feal-Martinez[/bold] wrote:
It's interesting that no one has mentioned, probably because of fear of being branded a racist, that the midwife who gave the incorrect application of the drug was not of these shores either.[/quote] Robert - Are you sure about this?
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:
It's interesting that no one has mentioned, probably because of fear of being branded a racist, that the midwife who gave the incorrect application of the drug was not of these shores either.
Robert - Are you sure about this?
Posted by: WTF?, Swindon on 11:23am Mon 19 May 08
Yes, he's right Terence.
Which is another **** reason why we, Great Britain, don't owe him anything.
We tax payers here, who will end up paying for him, didn't administer the epidural.
Can I just ask you all to watch Channel Four on Thursday, 9pm.
There's one question put to a man, who has endless kids, on it:
'Who do you think pays for you to live?'
His reply: 'The council'
Where do you lay abouts on here think that money comes from? It's from ME. Me and my family and friends who all work for a living and pay tax and I am sick to death of it.
Stop thinking it's okay for you to decide how I spend my money.
Your time will come when you have nothing, when you're 'disability' (cough obesity) is seen as a lie and/or you can no longer have children, or care for a so called 'ill' relative and I will sit and point and laugh at you with enormous pleasure.
GET A JOB AND [bold]YOU[/bold] PAY FOR THESE PEOPLE AND THEN YOU CAN SAY 'WE SHOULD SHOW THEM COMPASSION'
You make me sick.
Yes, he's right Terence.
Which is another **** reason why we, Great Britain, don't owe him anything.
We tax payers here, who will end up paying for him, didn't administer the epidural.
Can I just ask you all to watch Channel Four on Thursday, 9pm.
There's one question put to a man, who has endless kids, on it:
'Who do you think pays for you to live?'
His reply: 'The council'
Where do you lay abouts on here think that money comes from? It's from ME. Me and my family and friends who all work for a living and pay tax and I am sick to death of it.
Stop thinking it's okay for you to decide how I spend my money.
Your time will come when you have nothing, when you're 'disability' (cough obesity) is seen as a lie and/or you can no longer have children, or care for a so called 'ill' relative and I will sit and point and laugh at you with enormous pleasure.
GET A JOB AND
YOU PAY FOR THESE PEOPLE AND THEN YOU CAN SAY 'WE SHOULD SHOW THEM COMPASSION'
You make me sick.
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 11:39am Mon 19 May 08
[quote][bold]Mumstheword wrote:[/bold]
What is uncompassionate is the fact that we allowed him here in the first place. We said "welcome, come to England with your wife, she has a skill." Then, "Oh dear, we killed your wife by accident now you had best bugger off back home!"
[/quote]
[italic]We[/italic] didn't kill anybody. One NHS member of staff made a horrendous fatal mistake.
Mr Cabrera was only legally here because of his wife's right of entry. Without his wife, he was here illegally.
The circumstances are tragic, nobody is denying that, but it doesn't change the facts and it doesn't change the law.
Most criminals have some sad story or other in their lives, as do the rest of us, but it doesn't excuse a person from having to abide by the law (much as defence lawyers might think otherwise).
Yes, it's terrible that his wife died as she did, yes it's an awful situation he now faces but how is it going to be made any better by letting him live in the UK? It won't bring his wife back and won't give his children their mother.
So, why are you so keen to see him live in the UK? It just doesn't make any sense. His home country isn't dangerous and is economically fairly well positioned and, of course, the rest of his family live there - surely they'll be needed to help him raise his children.
[quote][bold]Mumstheword wrote:[/bold]
Please don't start telling me life is not fair! I already know that.
[/quote]
As you're only too keen to keep reminding us.
Yes, life's unfair. It's the first lesson every child should learn.
Life's also unfair for [italic]everyone[/italic]. There's nothing worse than people who think bad things only happen to them.
Mumstheword wrote:
What is uncompassionate is the fact that we allowed him here in the first place. We said "welcome, come to England with your wife, she has a skill." Then, "Oh dear, we killed your wife by accident now you had best bugger off back home!"
We didn't kill anybody. One NHS member of staff made a horrendous fatal mistake.
Mr Cabrera was only legally here because of his wife's right of entry. Without his wife, he was here illegally.
The circumstances are tragic, nobody is denying that, but it doesn't change the facts and it doesn't change the law.
Most criminals have some sad story or other in their lives, as do the rest of us, but it doesn't excuse a person from having to abide by the law (much as defence lawyers might think otherwise).
Yes, it's terrible that his wife died as she did, yes it's an awful situation he now faces but how is it going to be made any better by letting him live in the UK? It won't bring his wife back and won't give his children their mother.
So, why are you so keen to see him live in the UK? It just doesn't make any sense. His home country isn't dangerous and is economically fairly well positioned and, of course, the rest of his family live there - surely they'll be needed to help him raise his children.
Mumstheword wrote:
Please don't start telling me life is not fair! I already know that.
As you're only too keen to keep reminding us.
Yes, life's unfair. It's the first lesson every child should learn.
Life's also unfair for
everyone. There's nothing worse than people who think bad things only happen to them.
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 1:09pm Mon 19 May 08
WTF says
Where do you lay abouts on here think that money comes from? It's from ME. Me and my family and friends who all work for a living and pay tax and I am sick to death of it.
Who are these so called lay abouts? I don't see any posting on here? The government decide what your money gets spent on not anyone on here! Please don't tar everybody with the same brush as the bloke on that programme. Some of us want to work and some of us try hard and try to help in our local communities and schools. Not everybody is the same. People who don't give a **** about the world around them do not post here! They are too busy with their own little lives and their next can of special brew.
WTF says
Where do you lay abouts on here think that money comes from? It's from ME. Me and my family and friends who all work for a living and pay tax and I am sick to death of it.
Who are these so called lay abouts? I don't see any posting on here? The government decide what your money gets spent on not anyone on here! Please don't tar everybody with the same brush as the bloke on that programme. Some of us want to work and some of us try hard and try to help in our local communities and schools. Not everybody is the same. People who don't give a **** about the world around them do not post here! They are too busy with their own little lives and their next can of special brew.
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 1:13pm Mon 19 May 08
Frontier said:
Most criminals have some sad story or other in their lives, as do the rest of us, but it doesn't excuse a person from having to abide by the law (much as defence lawyers might think otherwise)
Yes I agree with you but what's that got to do with Arnel? He isn't a criminal? Just a hard working man who moved here with his wife, as they wanted a better life.
Frontier said
There's nothing worse than people who think bad things only happen to them.
Who are we talking about here Arnel? The other bloke in the Phillipines? Me? All of the above?
Yes of course bad things happen to all of us!
Frontier said:
Most criminals have some sad story or other in their lives, as do the rest of us, but it doesn't excuse a person from having to abide by the law (much as defence lawyers might think otherwise)
Yes I agree with you but what's that got to do with Arnel? He isn't a criminal? Just a hard working man who moved here with his wife, as they wanted a better life.
Frontier said
There's nothing worse than people who think bad things only happen to them.
Who are we talking about here Arnel? The other bloke in the Phillipines? Me? All of the above?
Yes of course bad things happen to all of us!
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 5:08pm Mon 19 May 08
[quote][bold]Mumstheword wrote:[/bold]
Yes I agree with you but what's that got to do with Arnel? He isn't a criminal? Just a hard working man who moved here with his wife, as they wanted a better life.[/quote]
At the risk of repeating this for about the fourth time... yes, he was a criminal.
He was in this country illegally the moment his wife died.
Mumstheword wrote:
Yes I agree with you but what's that got to do with Arnel? He isn't a criminal? Just a hard working man who moved here with his wife, as they wanted a better life.
At the risk of repeating this for about the fourth time... yes, he was a criminal.
He was in this country illegally the moment his wife died.
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