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| Gary James |
AS classmates downed their first pint on their 18th birthdays, alcoholic Gary James was already a heroin-addicted school drop-out facing three years in prison.
While his friends played football after school Gary was stealing to fund his habit which ranged from £30 to in excess of £100 a day.
But after spending more than half of his adult life in prison Gary, now 30, has turned his life around and thrown himself into education.
The father-of-three has been honoured with an Adult Learners' achievement award after dedicating the last three years to becoming a fitness instructor through Swindon College.
"I destroyed my youth with drink, drugs and crime and because of that I thought I would never live to see my 30th birthday," he said.
"But now here I am, getting qualified and giving myself the respect I deserved from the start. I would still be in the gutter if it wasn't for getting another crack at education."
Now living in the Railway Village with partner Adele and children Benjamen, five, Ave, two and Cora, seven months, his life is a far cry from that of his friends who continued down the road of self destruction.
"Many of my friends have died in the street," he said. "I've lost mates to drug overdoses and drug-related violence and even out of those who have survived many will spend the rest of their lives in prison.
"That won't be me any more. I missed my boy's birth because I was banged up but I have promised all my children that I will be there for everything from now on."
| i would in the gutter if I had not been given another crack at education | | Gary James |
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During his childhood Gary was expelled from three primary schools and five secondary schools.
By the time he was due to take his GCSEs he was already serving a three-year sentence at a young offenders' institution.
But, after getting out of prison at 27, Gary realised something had to change, so he signed up to Swindon College's Adult Learning Programme at North Star Campus.
Gary finished the first year of his National Diploma in Outdoor Recreation with the highest ever grades for the course.
He then progressed on to the national diploma in sport and outdoor education and volunteers for Swindon Town, working with the Twilight football unit.
He has now been asked to be a director for Stepping Forward, a facility for vulnerable youngsters based at St John's Church in Whitbourne Avenue.
There, he plans to use his experience to help troubled youngsters in the same position he found himself in as a teenager.
He said: "What I did to myself was regrettable. It's sad it ever got like that and I know I am lucky to be alive and have a family who love me.
"But if something can come out of the misery I caused myself and others, it's that I can help others who start to find themselves going down that path. If kids turn round to me and say what do you know about it' I can say, I know that I am lucky that I lived to tell the tale'."
1:00pm Wednesday 21st May 2008
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CommentPosted by: KJ, Work on 8:25am Wed 21 May 08
Well done Gary, Your family must be proud of you for all your hard work and determination.
Well done Gary, Your family must be proud of you for all your hard work and determination.
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 8:35am Wed 21 May 08
And what about the victims of his numerous crimes?
Did the taxpayer get forced to bend over backwards to allow them three children and thousands of pounds worth of free education?
Or did they just get a leaflet from 'Victim Support' and be expected to get on with it?
And what about the victims of his numerous crimes?
Did the taxpayer get forced to bend over backwards to allow them three children and thousands of pounds worth of free education?
Or did they just get a leaflet from 'Victim Support' and be expected to get on with it?
Posted by: doug@homefarm, SN1 on 8:41am Wed 21 May 08
Big Mac, given that it is highly unlikely that he has a clue who is victims were, I could have been one of them, it is immpossible for him to make repparation to them individually. However by the way he has pulled himself together and is working with youngsters, I believe that this is a true case of rehabilitation for which he and society as a whole benefits, He should be congratulated, but you and a number of other posters will just carp and snipe at him for the rest of the day.
Big Mac, given that it is highly unlikely that he has a clue who is victims were, I could have been one of them, it is immpossible for him to make repparation to them individually. However by the way he has pulled himself together and is working with youngsters, I believe that this is a true case of rehabilitation for which he and society as a whole benefits, He should be congratulated, but you and a number of other posters will just carp and snipe at him for the rest of the day.
Posted by: swindonlad, swindon on 9:28am Wed 21 May 08
well done to him & i hope he can get kids to do the right thing before they end up as drug addicts steeling or going on the game to pay for their habbits!
if he manages this i think he has paid more back to society than doing time again when he would have come out & more than likely started steeling again to feed his habit[/bold] [bold]bold[/bold]
well done to him & i hope he can get kids to do the right thing before they end up as drug addicts steeling or going on the game to pay for their habbits!
if he manages this i think he has paid more back to society than doing time again when he would have come out & more than likely started steeling again to feed his habit bold
Posted by: Maiden, Swindon on 1:17pm Wed 21 May 08
I remember Gary from when I was younger, he was a lovely lad before he got in with the proverbial wrong crowd, popular at school and good looking. I remember seeing him in a bad way a few years later and I crossed the street to avoid having to speak to him, to my shame, I thought he would have asked me for money. I know of some of the friends he refers to who have died of drug overdoses. Its very sad indeed but a fantastic turnaround. Maybe his achievements will inspire some of the others that are still in the dark place he left behind. I sincerely hope so. Well done Gary!
I remember Gary from when I was younger, he was a lovely lad before he got in with the proverbial wrong crowd, popular at school and good looking. I remember seeing him in a bad way a few years later and I crossed the street to avoid having to speak to him, to my shame, I thought he would have asked me for money. I know of some of the friends he refers to who have died of drug overdoses. Its very sad indeed but a fantastic turnaround. Maybe his achievements will inspire some of the others that are still in the dark place he left behind. I sincerely hope so. Well done Gary!
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 1:30pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote][bold]doug@homefarm[/bold] wrote:
Big Mac, given that it is highly unlikely that he has a clue who is victims were, I could have been one of them, it is immpossible for him to make repparation to them individually. However by the way he has pulled himself together and is working with youngsters, I believe that this is a true case of rehabilitation for which he and society as a whole benefits, He should be congratulated, but you and a number of other posters will just carp and snipe at him for the rest of the day.[/quote] And it doesn't surprise me at all that you don't give a monkeys about his victims.
He has done well with his life, yes, and should be congratulated.
I just don't like the way his previous crimes and victims are brushed aside as if they don't actually matter.
doug@homefarm wrote:
Big Mac, given that it is highly unlikely that he has a clue who is victims were, I could have been one of them, it is immpossible for him to make repparation to them individually. However by the way he has pulled himself together and is working with youngsters, I believe that this is a true case of rehabilitation for which he and society as a whole benefits, He should be congratulated, but you and a number of other posters will just carp and snipe at him for the rest of the day.
And it doesn't surprise me at all that you don't give a monkeys about his victims.
He has done well with his life, yes, and should be congratulated.
I just don't like the way his previous crimes and victims are brushed aside as if they don't actually matter.
Posted by: emmylou83, Stratton on 1:43pm Wed 21 May 08
Frontier(s) he has done his time for crime and he even missed the birth of his son a moment I'm sure he will regret missing for the rest of his life, if we constantly judge people on their past then what is the point of trying for a better society
Frontier(s) he has done his time for crime and he even missed the birth of his son a moment I'm sure he will regret missing for the rest of his life, if we constantly judge people on their past then what is the point of trying for a better society
Posted by: Brad on 1:53pm Wed 21 May 08
Well done Dave! An inspiring story. [bold]Keep up the good work![/bold]
Well done Dave! An inspiring story.
Keep up the good work! Posted by: Pav, Swindon on 2:00pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote]"I would still be in the gutter if it wasn't for getting another [bold]crack[/bold] at education."[/quote]
:)
"I would still be in the gutter if it wasn't for getting another crack at education."
:)
Posted by: doug@homefarm, SN1 on 2:04pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote][bold]Frontier(s)[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]doug@homefarm[/bold] wrote: Big Mac, given that it is highly unlikely that he has a clue who is victims were, I could have been one of them, it is immpossible for him to make repparation to them individually. However by the way he has pulled himself together and is working with youngsters, I believe that this is a true case of rehabilitation for which he and society as a whole benefits, He should be congratulated, but you and a number of other posters will just carp and snipe at him for the rest of the day.[/quote] And it doesn't surprise me at all that you don't give a monkeys about his victims. He has done well with his life, yes, and should be congratulated. I just don't like the way his previous crimes and victims are brushed aside as if they don't actually matter.[/quote] Did I say I couldn't give a monkeys about the victims? No I didn't. I'm not pushing his crimes aside, he has been punished under due process of the law, but as always you want more than that. Given what he's doing now far outways any wrongdoing of the past.
Frontier(s) wrote:
doug@homefarm wrote: Big Mac, given that it is highly unlikely that he has a clue who is victims were, I could have been one of them, it is immpossible for him to make repparation to them individually. However by the way he has pulled himself together and is working with youngsters, I believe that this is a true case of rehabilitation for which he and society as a whole benefits, He should be congratulated, but you and a number of other posters will just carp and snipe at him for the rest of the day.
And it doesn't surprise me at all that you don't give a monkeys about his victims. He has done well with his life, yes, and should be congratulated. I just don't like the way his previous crimes and victims are brushed aside as if they don't actually matter.
Did I say I couldn't give a monkeys about the victims? No I didn't. I'm not pushing his crimes aside, he has been punished under due process of the law, but as always you want more than that. Given what he's doing now far outways any wrongdoing of the past.
Posted by: Taxpower, Swinetown on 2:20pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote][bold]Frontier(s)[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]doug@homefarm[/bold] wrote: Big Mac, given that it is highly unlikely that he has a clue who is victims were, I could have been one of them, it is immpossible for him to make repparation to them individually. However by the way he has pulled himself together and is working with youngsters, I believe that this is a true case of rehabilitation for which he and society as a whole benefits, He should be congratulated, but you and a number of other posters will just carp and snipe at him for the rest of the day.[/quote] And it doesn't surprise me at all that you don't give a monkeys about his victims. He has done well with his life, yes, and should be congratulated. I just don't like the way his previous crimes and victims are brushed aside as if they don't actually matter.[/quote] you are right and confirm the good old adage of guilt admitted half forgiven that still applies in Courts.
It is great to see a career criminal turning his life round, but should the Justice system kept him locked up long enough, there would have been far less victims.
Frontier(s) wrote:
doug@homefarm wrote: Big Mac, given that it is highly unlikely that he has a clue who is victims were, I could have been one of them, it is immpossible for him to make repparation to them individually. However by the way he has pulled himself together and is working with youngsters, I believe that this is a true case of rehabilitation for which he and society as a whole benefits, He should be congratulated, but you and a number of other posters will just carp and snipe at him for the rest of the day.
And it doesn't surprise me at all that you don't give a monkeys about his victims. He has done well with his life, yes, and should be congratulated. I just don't like the way his previous crimes and victims are brushed aside as if they don't actually matter.
you are right and confirm the good old adage of guilt admitted half forgiven that still applies in Courts.
It is great to see a career criminal turning his life round, but should the Justice system kept him locked up long enough, there would have been far less victims.
Posted by: Taxpower, Swinetown on 2:23pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote][bold]Frontier(s)[/bold] wrote:
And what about the victims of his numerous crimes? Did the taxpayer get forced to bend over backwards to allow them three children and thousands of pounds worth of free education? Or did they just get a leaflet from 'Victim Support' and be expected to get on with it?[/quote] 110% on the same brainwave
Frontier(s) wrote:
And what about the victims of his numerous crimes? Did the taxpayer get forced to bend over backwards to allow them three children and thousands of pounds worth of free education? Or did they just get a leaflet from 'Victim Support' and be expected to get on with it?
110% on the same brainwave
Posted by: AllyT, Swindon on 4:08pm Wed 21 May 08
I am with Emmy Lou on this one. He has done his time, paid for his crime, and missed the birth of his child.Congratulation
s on turning your life around, and good luck with trying to help others to do the same thing.
I am with Emmy Lou on this one. He has done his time, paid for his crime, and missed the birth of his child.Congratulation
s on turning your life around, and good luck with trying to help others to do the same thing.
Posted by: AllyT, Swindon on 4:10pm Wed 21 May 08
I am with Emmy Lou on this one. Gary has done his time, paid for his crime and missed out on his children growing up. Congratulations on turning your life around, and good luck with helping others to do the same.
I am with Emmy Lou on this one. Gary has done his time, paid for his crime and missed out on his children growing up. Congratulations on turning your life around, and good luck with helping others to do the same.
Posted by: AllyT, Swindon on 4:19pm Wed 21 May 08
I am with Emmy Lou on this one. Gary has done his time, paid for his crime and missed out on his children growing up. Congratulations on turning your life around, and good luck with helping others to do the same.
I am with Emmy Lou on this one. Gary has done his time, paid for his crime and missed out on his children growing up. Congratulations on turning your life around, and good luck with helping others to do the same.
Posted by: AllyT, Swindon on 4:21pm Wed 21 May 08
Stupid system !! I only submitted this the second time because the first one didn't show !! Not sure where the 3rd one came from !!
Stupid system !! I only submitted this the second time because the first one didn't show !! Not sure where the 3rd one came from !!
Posted by: AllyT, Swindon on 4:21pm Wed 21 May 08
Stupid system !! I only submitted this the second time because the first one didn't show !! Not sure where the 3rd one came from !!
Stupid system !! I only submitted this the second time because the first one didn't show !! Not sure where the 3rd one came from !!
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 4:25pm Wed 21 May 08
I'm actually quite amazed at some of these comments.
Whose fault was it he missed his son's birth?
Him, and only him. He had a choice.
His victims didn't.
I'm actually quite amazed at some of these comments.
Whose fault was it he missed his son's birth?
Him, and only him. He had a choice.
His victims didn't.
Posted by: tim, Swindon on 4:42pm Wed 21 May 08
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we want to encourage other criminals to do the same? Why the persistant brow beating? What does it accomplish?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we want to encourage other criminals to do the same? Why the persistant brow beating? What does it accomplish?
Posted by: tim, Swindon on 4:43pm Wed 21 May 08
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we want to encourage other criminals to do the same? Why the persistant brow beating? What does it accomplish?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we want to encourage other criminals to do the same? Why the persistant brow beating? What does it accomplish?
Posted by: doug@homefarm, SN1 on 4:54pm Wed 21 May 08
No one has used his sons birth as an excuse, infact Emmylou made the point of it was an event he deeply regrets missing. He is not making any excuses for his past, and as far as I can see nor is any other poster. Yes of course his victims deserve a though as indeed do all victims of crime, but what do you suggest should be done. Never give him another chance because of the past. He has been judged and dealt with in courts of law. That is now over, he is looking to make the future good for himself, his family and even more importantly for kids who may be going the way he was in the past. That can be no bad thing for society as a whole.
No one has used his sons birth as an excuse, infact Emmylou made the point of it was an event he deeply regrets missing. He is not making any excuses for his past, and as far as I can see nor is any other poster. Yes of course his victims deserve a though as indeed do all victims of crime, but what do you suggest should be done. Never give him another chance because of the past. He has been judged and dealt with in courts of law. That is now over, he is looking to make the future good for himself, his family and even more importantly for kids who may be going the way he was in the past. That can be no bad thing for society as a whole.
Posted by: Taxpower, Swinetown on 5:07pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote][bold]doug@homefarm[/bold] wrote:
No one has used his sons birth as an excuse, infact Emmylou made the point of it was an event he deeply regrets missing. He is not making any excuses for his past, and as far as I can see nor is any other poster. Yes of course his victims deserve a though as indeed do all victims of crime, but what do you suggest should be done. Never give him another chance because of the past. He has been judged and dealt with in courts of law. That is now over, he is looking to make the future good for himself, his family and even more importantly for kids who may be going the way he was in the past. That can be no bad thing for society as a whole.[/quote] On this basis we should embrace the would be suicide bombers after their time and give them all the support they need. I think thats a little step too far for many of us including me to swallow that pill
doug@homefarm wrote:
No one has used his sons birth as an excuse, infact Emmylou made the point of it was an event he deeply regrets missing. He is not making any excuses for his past, and as far as I can see nor is any other poster. Yes of course his victims deserve a though as indeed do all victims of crime, but what do you suggest should be done. Never give him another chance because of the past. He has been judged and dealt with in courts of law. That is now over, he is looking to make the future good for himself, his family and even more importantly for kids who may be going the way he was in the past. That can be no bad thing for society as a whole.
On this basis we should embrace the would be suicide bombers after their time and give them all the support they need. I think thats a little step too far for many of us including me to swallow that pill
Posted by: Taxpower, Swinetown on 5:08pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote][bold]doug@homefarm[/bold] wrote:
No one has used his sons birth as an excuse, infact Emmylou made the point of it was an event he deeply regrets missing. He is not making any excuses for his past, and as far as I can see nor is any other poster. Yes of course his victims deserve a though as indeed do all victims of crime, but what do you suggest should be done. Never give him another chance because of the past. He has been judged and dealt with in courts of law. That is now over, he is looking to make the future good for himself, his family and even more importantly for kids who may be going the way he was in the past. That can be no bad thing for society as a whole.[/quote] On this basis we should embrace the would be suicide bombers after their time and give them all the support they need. I think thats a little step too far for many of us including me to swallow that pill
doug@homefarm wrote:
No one has used his sons birth as an excuse, infact Emmylou made the point of it was an event he deeply regrets missing. He is not making any excuses for his past, and as far as I can see nor is any other poster. Yes of course his victims deserve a though as indeed do all victims of crime, but what do you suggest should be done. Never give him another chance because of the past. He has been judged and dealt with in courts of law. That is now over, he is looking to make the future good for himself, his family and even more importantly for kids who may be going the way he was in the past. That can be no bad thing for society as a whole.
On this basis we should embrace the would be suicide bombers after their time and give them all the support they need. I think thats a little step too far for many of us including me to swallow that pill
Posted by: HoneyPie, The Shire on 5:20pm Wed 21 May 08
It is very easy for us to to sit in an ivory tower and snipe at people, just because we have managed to avoid taking this particular road. Oh, to be so perfect.
Unfortunately, sometimes human nature allows us to get caught up in a downwards spiral and often a drug of some sort is at the root of it. Yes, they could have said 'no', that's easy for you or I to say, but I presume you and I are not in that situation.
Yes, there are victims who have been hurt by all this, including - I suspect - his family as well.
He has been sent to prison as punishment for these crimes and instead of continuing down the same road of self-destruction, he has turned his life around and is working positively to help other youngsters who are in danger of following the same road, hopefully helping to prevent the creation of more victims.
This is probably the best and only way of making reparations for his past crimes and shows genuine remorse.
In reality - and in a civilised society - what more could he do?
It is very easy for us to to sit in an ivory tower and snipe at people, just because we have managed to avoid taking this particular road. Oh, to be so perfect.
Unfortunately, sometimes human nature allows us to get caught up in a downwards spiral and often a drug of some sort is at the root of it. Yes, they could have said 'no', that's easy for you or I to say, but I presume you and I are not in that situation.
Yes, there are victims who have been hurt by all this, including - I suspect - his family as well.
He has been sent to prison as punishment for these crimes and instead of continuing down the same road of self-destruction, he has turned his life around and is working positively to help other youngsters who are in danger of following the same road, hopefully helping to prevent the creation of more victims.
This is probably the best and only way of making reparations for his past crimes and shows genuine remorse.
In reality - and in a civilised society - what more could he do?
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 7:43pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote]Oh, to be so perfect.
[/quote]
No, just hard working, law abiding and not stealing, robbing, mugging others.
Is it really that hard not to be a criminal these days.
[quote]Yes, there are victims who have been hurt by all this, including - I suspect - his family as well.[/quote]
Oh, please, spare me.
You don't give a monkeys about his victims - let's be honest - you just feel all warm inside because ONE criminal (out of hundreds of thousands) has apparently managed not to reoffend for a while.
Oh, to be so perfect.
No, just hard working, law abiding and not stealing, robbing, mugging others.
Is it really that hard not to be a criminal these days.
Yes, there are victims who have been hurt by all this, including - I suspect - his family as well.
Oh, please, spare me.
You don't give a monkeys about his victims - let's be honest - you just feel all warm inside because ONE criminal (out of hundreds of thousands) has apparently managed not to reoffend for a while.
Posted by: HoneyPie, The Shire on 8:17pm Wed 21 May 08
Of course I care about his victims. But you can't change what has already happened. Face reality. All you can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again, which is what he is trying to do.
It's so easy for you to criticise. It's all you ever seem to do. But what is your solution? In the real world?
Lock everyone away who has committed a crime, large or small? Or would extermination be your bag?
And where would this line be drawn on the seriousness of a crime? Would it be have to be anything worse than you have ever committed, so that you can stand in judgement?
Are you such a magnificently good person that you have never done something that has hurt someone else that you later regretted?
So how would the Frontier(s) world be ruled? No forgiveness for anyone? Rather a harsh regime, methinks.
Of course I care about his victims. But you can't change what has already happened. Face reality. All you can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again, which is what he is trying to do.
It's so easy for you to criticise. It's all you ever seem to do. But what is your solution? In the real world?
Lock everyone away who has committed a crime, large or small? Or would extermination be your bag?
And where would this line be drawn on the seriousness of a crime? Would it be have to be anything worse than you have ever committed, so that you can stand in judgement?
Are you such a magnificently good person that you have never done something that has hurt someone else that you later regretted?
So how would the Frontier(s) world be ruled? No forgiveness for anyone? Rather a harsh regime, methinks.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 8:32pm Wed 21 May 08
I haven't read any other post deliberately. I have simple and some would simplistic view, education should be about teaching people, if the main stream stream doesn't teach perhaps we should lok for a system that does.
I haven't read any other post deliberately. I have simple and some would simplistic view, education should be about teaching people, if the main stream stream doesn't teach perhaps we should lok for a system that does.
Posted by: vigil, swindon on 8:51pm Wed 21 May 08
Is he actually paying enough tax from what he does now to pay for the FOOTPRINT (i.e. the COST) of his existance with the kids he has made on this earth???
NO.
The major working tax payers are paving his way just as we were when he was in prison.
But this guy has come Good.
And he will put something special into our society I am sure - because he feels he has come to a point where he CAN, and wants to put something into England now he's got his head together.
(Unlike most EU immigrants - who want to take what's special (£££) and take it back to where they came from.)
Is he actually paying enough tax from what he does now to pay for the FOOTPRINT (i.e. the COST) of his existance with the kids he has made on this earth???
NO.
The major working tax payers are paving his way just as we were when he was in prison.
But this guy has come Good.
And he will put something special into our society I am sure - because he feels he has come to a point where he CAN, and wants to put something into England now he's got his head together.
(Unlike most EU immigrants - who want to take what's special (£££) and take it back to where they came from.)
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 8:54pm Wed 21 May 08
Well done to Gary, I hope his story is an inspiration to others in a similiar situation and helps them to realise that they too could turn their lives around.
Well done to Gary, I hope his story is an inspiration to others in a similiar situation and helps them to realise that they too could turn their lives around.
Posted by: sashstaff, Swindon on 9:37pm Wed 21 May 08
What is the point of alcholics, addicts, people with mental illnesses etc. making any attempt to improve their lives when their chances of employment are practically zero (that guy just happened to be offered a suitable opportunity).
Let you taxpayers support them for life (£200+ a week each), I say, if you continue to be so judgemental.
What is the point of alcholics, addicts, people with mental illnesses etc. making any attempt to improve their lives when their chances of employment are practically zero (that guy just happened to be offered a suitable opportunity).
Let you taxpayers support them for life (£200+ a week each), I say, if you continue to be so judgemental.
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 11:52pm Wed 21 May 08
The point is that if you don't pander to them in the first place, and ensure - through taxpayers picking up the pieces - that they don't feel entirely able to do as they please, then not quite so many people will see it as the option that it currently is.
The problem, as so evidently displayed in this thread, is that lots of people seem happy to indulge these people. Happy to spend their money on them. Happy to encourage them.
And then the weasly, mealy mouthed nonsense about them 'caring' about these people's victims come all too easily.
If they truly 'cared' about the victims, they'd try to prevent those people ever becoming victims - not swoon all over criminals who finally get too old to be dirty little thieves and realise they'd better try and get establish a real life for themselves.
People like HoneyPie will never realise/accept that they're no better than the criminals themselves. Especially as they no doubt espouse their 'help the criminal' nonsense from the safety of a nice, safe internet connection.
The point is that if you don't pander to them in the first place, and ensure - through taxpayers picking up the pieces - that they don't feel entirely able to do as they please, then not quite so many people will see it as the option that it currently is.
The problem, as so evidently displayed in this thread, is that lots of people seem happy to indulge these people. Happy to spend their money on them. Happy to encourage them.
And then the weasly, mealy mouthed nonsense about them 'caring' about these people's victims come all too easily.
If they truly 'cared' about the victims, they'd try to prevent those people ever becoming victims - not swoon all over criminals who finally get too old to be dirty little thieves and realise they'd better try and get establish a real life for themselves.
People like HoneyPie will never realise/accept that they're no better than the criminals themselves. Especially as they no doubt espouse their 'help the criminal' nonsense from the safety of a nice, safe internet connection.
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 11:55pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote]So how would the Frontier(s) world be ruled? No forgiveness for anyone? Rather a harsh regime, methinks.[/quote]
I'd attempt to stop people being as childish and black/white as you, that'd be the first thing.
So how would the Frontier(s) world be ruled? No forgiveness for anyone? Rather a harsh regime, methinks.
I'd attempt to stop people being as childish and black/white as you, that'd be the first thing.
Posted by: Neil, Swindon on 8:41am Thu 22 May 08
Ok, just my 2cents..
Congratulations to him on being able to escape from prison with a family, education and a job.
Now let me ask a question.. When he was in prison what other option did he have, he most certainly couldn't go around stealing to fund his addiction, instead he was given a free education. Perhaps I could go to prison so that I could get a better education that I wouldn't be able to afford?!?!?
The victims of his crime have suffered and will continue to suffer (I have been a victim of crime, theft and violent) The victims didn't get "rehabilitated" and handed a free education.
But what I would say, is that I can't knock the fact that he has stayed off the drugs since coming out of prison and is there for his family now, and I hope that continues.
What is at fault is the system, criminals get rewarded whilst victims continue to be punished.
Ok, just my 2cents..
Congratulations to him on being able to escape from prison with a family, education and a job.
Now let me ask a question.. When he was in prison what other option did he have, he most certainly couldn't go around stealing to fund his addiction, instead he was given a free education. Perhaps I could go to prison so that I could get a better education that I wouldn't be able to afford?!?!?
The victims of his crime have suffered and will continue to suffer (I have been a victim of crime, theft and violent) The victims didn't get "rehabilitated" and handed a free education.
But what I would say, is that I can't knock the fact that he has stayed off the drugs since coming out of prison and is there for his family now, and I hope that continues.
What is at fault is the system, criminals get rewarded whilst victims continue to be punished.
Posted by: BWB, SWINDON on 8:43am Thu 22 May 08
LET HE THAT HAS NEVER SINNED
CAST THE FIRST STONE.
Well done Gary.
LET HE THAT HAS NEVER SINNED
CAST THE FIRST STONE.
Well done Gary.
Posted by: eminencegris, swindon on 9:55am Thu 22 May 08
The problem for Frontier and others is that the successful rehabilitation of a criminal makes a mockery of their hardline stance, to the extent that they would prefer Mr James to (eventually) leave prison no different to the person who entered it, back on smack and heading straight back to prison. What's the sense in that?
No one here who has welcomed the news that Gary James has turned his life around has congratulated him at the expense of his victim. Being the victim's self-styled champion, in reality, is nothing more than posturing.
The problem for Frontier and others is that the successful rehabilitation of a criminal makes a mockery of their hardline stance, to the extent that they would prefer Mr James to (eventually) leave prison no different to the person who entered it, back on smack and heading straight back to prison. What's the sense in that?
No one here who has welcomed the news that Gary James has turned his life around has congratulated him at the expense of his victim. Being the victim's self-styled champion, in reality, is nothing more than posturing.
Posted by: Taxpower, Swinetown on 10:05am Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]HoneyPie[/bold] wrote:
Of course I care about his victims. But you can't change what has already happened. Face reality. All you can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again, which is what he is trying to do. It's so easy for you to criticise. It's all you ever seem to do. But what is your solution? In the real world? Lock everyone away who has committed a crime, large or small? Or would extermination be your bag? And where would this line be drawn on the seriousness of a crime? Would it be have to be anything worse than you have ever committed, so that you can stand in judgement? Are you such a magnificently good person that you have never done something that has hurt someone else that you later regretted? So how would the Frontier(s) world be ruled? No forgiveness for anyone? Rather a harsh regime, methinks.[/quote] I am in favour of a harsh regime like Frontier, however, I would like to spice the sentence with a bit of Saudi spirit.
Without one or two hands, am sure this guy would have had problems re-offending and breeding more social retards
HoneyPie wrote:
Of course I care about his victims. But you can't change what has already happened. Face reality. All you can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again, which is what he is trying to do. It's so easy for you to criticise. It's all you ever seem to do. But what is your solution? In the real world? Lock everyone away who has committed a crime, large or small? Or would extermination be your bag? And where would this line be drawn on the seriousness of a crime? Would it be have to be anything worse than you have ever committed, so that you can stand in judgement? Are you such a magnificently good person that you have never done something that has hurt someone else that you later regretted? So how would the Frontier(s) world be ruled? No forgiveness for anyone? Rather a harsh regime, methinks.
I am in favour of a harsh regime like Frontier, however, I would like to spice the sentence with a bit of Saudi spirit.
Without one or two hands, am sure this guy would have had problems re-offending and breeding more social retards
Posted by: Taxpower, Swinetown on 10:08am Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]eminencegris[/bold] wrote:
The problem for Frontier and others is that the successful rehabilitation of a criminal makes a mockery of their hardline stance, to the extent that they would prefer Mr James to (eventually) leave prison no different to the person who entered it, back on smack and heading straight back to prison. What's the sense in that? No one here who has welcomed the news that Gary James has turned his life around has congratulated him at the expense of his victim. Being the victim's self-styled champion, in reality, is nothing more than posturing. [/quote] How about the guys that escape justice for 10-15-20 years, turned their lives round and then one day thanks to DNA they get caught and go to Jail. You think that is Posturing also?
eminencegris wrote:
The problem for Frontier and others is that the successful rehabilitation of a criminal makes a mockery of their hardline stance, to the extent that they would prefer Mr James to (eventually) leave prison no different to the person who entered it, back on smack and heading straight back to prison. What's the sense in that? No one here who has welcomed the news that Gary James has turned his life around has congratulated him at the expense of his victim. Being the victim's self-styled champion, in reality, is nothing more than posturing.
How about the guys that escape justice for 10-15-20 years, turned their lives round and then one day thanks to DNA they get caught and go to Jail. You think that is Posturing also?
Posted by: doug@homefarm, SN1 on 10:11am Thu 22 May 08
Nail on the head eminencegris!
Vigil what a lot of contradictory twaddle. We shall discuss it further at the Steam Beer Fest I think!
Nail on the head eminencegris!
Vigil what a lot of contradictory twaddle. We shall discuss it further at the Steam Beer Fest I think!
Posted by: doug@homefarm, SN1 on 10:24am Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]Taxpower[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]eminencegris[/bold] wrote: The problem for Frontier and others is that the successful rehabilitation of a criminal makes a mockery of their hardline stance, to the extent that they would prefer Mr James to (eventually) leave prison no different to the person who entered it, back on smack and heading straight back to prison. What's the sense in that? No one here who has welcomed the news that Gary James has turned his life around has congratulated him at the expense of his victim. Being the victim's self-styled champion, in reality, is nothing more than posturing. [/quote] How about the guys that escape justice for 10-15-20 years, turned their lives round and then one day thanks to DNA they get caught and go to Jail. You think that is Posturing also?[/quote] No, thses is telling people that if you do the crime then there is a good chance that eventually you'll do the time. No one is suggesting that a criminal (nazi war criminals excepted)who has finally been brought to book should be set free due to the fact that they may have behaved themselves for some twenty odd years. However I'm sure that would be taken into consideration at sentencing.
Taxpower wrote:
eminencegris wrote: The problem for Frontier and others is that the successful rehabilitation of a criminal makes a mockery of their hardline stance, to the extent that they would prefer Mr James to (eventually) leave prison no different to the person who entered it, back on smack and heading straight back to prison. What's the sense in that? No one here who has welcomed the news that Gary James has turned his life around has congratulated him at the expense of his victim. Being the victim's self-styled champion, in reality, is nothing more than posturing.
How about the guys that escape justice for 10-15-20 years, turned their lives round and then one day thanks to DNA they get caught and go to Jail. You think that is Posturing also?
No, thses is telling people that if you do the crime then there is a good chance that eventually you'll do the time. No one is suggesting that a criminal (nazi war criminals excepted)who has finally been brought to book should be set free due to the fact that they may have behaved themselves for some twenty odd years. However I'm sure that would be taken into consideration at sentencing.
Posted by: emmylou83, Stratton on 10:31am Thu 22 May 08
[quote]breeding more social retards[/quote]
So all criminals breed social retards then???
breeding more social retards
So all criminals breed social retards then???
Posted by: doug@homefarm, SN1 on 10:32am Thu 22 May 08
Re above reference to war criminals re-reading it I see that i've made a hash of that point so please any posters don't dwell on it as it is not relevent to the story. For the record I believe that all nazi war crimnals should be brought to trial regardless of their age and state of health. I only put this down as my previous post may imply the opposite.
Cheers
Re above reference to war criminals re-reading it I see that i've made a hash of that point so please any posters don't dwell on it as it is not relevent to the story. For the record I believe that all nazi war crimnals should be brought to trial regardless of their age and state of health. I only put this down as my previous post may imply the opposite.
Cheers
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 11:19am Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]eminencegris wrote:[/bold]
Being the victim's self-styled champion, in reality, is nothing more than posturing.
[/quote]
What a very illuminating comment.
You fall over yourself to help and champion criminals yet feel anyone standing up for the rights of victims is merely 'posturing'.
My mother, sister and I have all been victims of crime (two of them serious) within the last three years.
I can assure you, my dislike of criminals and belief that they're treated far better than their victims is as far from 'posturing' as it can get.
As for your comments about rehabilitation, Jesus, what do you want? Criminals to get a medal just because they finally manage to not break laws?
eminencegris wrote:
Being the victim's self-styled champion, in reality, is nothing more than posturing.
What a very illuminating comment.
You fall over yourself to help and champion criminals yet feel anyone standing up for the rights of victims is merely 'posturing'.
My mother, sister and I have all been victims of crime (two of them serious) within the last three years.
I can assure you, my dislike of criminals and belief that they're treated far better than their victims is as far from 'posturing' as it can get.
As for your comments about rehabilitation, Jesus, what do you want? Criminals to get a medal just because they finally manage to not break laws?
Posted by: eminencegris, swindon on 2:00pm Thu 22 May 08
But you aren't standing up for the rights of victims, Frontier, you're merely saying that no one should forget them. Yet, in reality, no-one actually has.
As for me 'falling over myself to champion criminals', well that's nonsense. I've not suggested at any point that Mr James didn't deserve his punishment, neither would I, but what do you wish we had done with him? I'm sorry that you and your family have been victims of crime, but that gives you no greater insight into the relative treatment of offenders and their victims. Have you been denied the opportunities Gary James chose to seize upon during his incarceration? If you believe, as you say you do, that they are treated far better than their victims, would you have preferred to spend the last three years in prison? Thought not.
Finally...what is the purpose of your last paragraph? It's a gross distortion of my comment, as you well know. Medals? No one is suggesting anything like it. The chance of rehabilitation and reintegration into society? What's so wrong with that?
But you aren't standing up for the rights of victims, Frontier, you're merely saying that no one should forget them. Yet, in reality, no-one actually has.
As for me 'falling over myself to champion criminals', well that's nonsense. I've not suggested at any point that Mr James didn't deserve his punishment, neither would I, but what do you wish we had done with him? I'm sorry that you and your family have been victims of crime, but that gives you no greater insight into the relative treatment of offenders and their victims. Have you been denied the opportunities Gary James chose to seize upon during his incarceration? If you believe, as you say you do, that they are treated far better than their victims, would you have preferred to spend the last three years in prison? Thought not.
Finally...what is the purpose of your last paragraph? It's a gross distortion of my comment, as you well know. Medals? No one is suggesting anything like it. The chance of rehabilitation and reintegration into society? What's so wrong with that?
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 2:15pm Thu 22 May 08
[quote]I'm sorry that you and your family have been victims of crime, but that gives you no greater insight into the relative treatment of offenders and their victims.[/quote]
How can being a victim of a crime not give you more insight into how victims of crime are treated than a person who hasn't been a victim of crime? That's completely nonsensical.
[quote]Have you been denied the opportunities Gary James chose to seize upon during his incarceration?[/quote]
Well, in theory, yes, because I have a living to earn and don't have all day, every day, to go on training courses etc. Also, I would not qualify for any of the free training etc. that I've helped pay for in the case of Mr James. Slightly ironic, but that's the problem with the system these days.
I'm sorry that you and your family have been victims of crime, but that gives you no greater insight into the relative treatment of offenders and their victims.
How can being a victim of a crime not give you more insight into how victims of crime are treated than a person who hasn't been a victim of crime? That's completely nonsensical.
Have you been denied the opportunities Gary James chose to seize upon during his incarceration?
Well, in theory, yes, because I have a living to earn and don't have all day, every day, to go on training courses etc. Also, I would not qualify for any of the free training etc. that I've helped pay for in the case of Mr James. Slightly ironic, but that's the problem with the system these days.
Posted by: HoneyPie, The Shire on 2:50pm Thu 22 May 08
Frontier(s) - Again, all you can do is come up with negative sniping. At no point did I espouse 'help the criminal' - a definite figment of your imagination. You know practically nothing about my views on the criminal justice system. You might be surprised.
In asking you what your solution would be was not childish or black and white. It was trying to find out what your answer is to this. If anyone steps over the agreed line, they must be punished forever? Where is your line? These are reasonable questions, surely, to elicit a reasonable answer?
Or is it just that if we dare to disagree with your arguably extreme views, we are all lily-livered bleeding-heart liberals?
Unfortunately, it is you that appears to view everything in black & white - you offer no shades of opinion. If in doubt, talk about how much tax we are all paying to support these people...
In your own post, you say that if we cared about the victims, we'd try to prevent those people ever becoming victims. This is what this man is trying to do by working with kids who might be tempted to go the same way. A contradiction here, surely? Do you tar all criminals with the same brush, regardless of crime?
So Judge Frontier(s), what is your solution?
Frontier(s) - Again, all you can do is come up with negative sniping. At no point did I espouse 'help the criminal' - a definite figment of your imagination. You know practically nothing about my views on the criminal justice system. You might be surprised.
In asking you what your solution would be was not childish or black and white. It was trying to find out what your answer is to this. If anyone steps over the agreed line, they must be punished forever? Where is your line? These are reasonable questions, surely, to elicit a reasonable answer?
Or is it just that if we dare to disagree with your arguably extreme views, we are all lily-livered bleeding-heart liberals?
Unfortunately, it is you that appears to view everything in black & white - you offer no shades of opinion. If in doubt, talk about how much tax we are all paying to support these people...
In your own post, you say that if we cared about the victims, we'd try to prevent those people ever becoming victims. This is what this man is trying to do by working with kids who might be tempted to go the same way. A contradiction here, surely? Do you tar all criminals with the same brush, regardless of crime?
So Judge Frontier(s), what is your solution?
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 3:35pm Thu 22 May 08
'Extreme views'?
Expecting convicted criminals to receive appropriate sentences?
Not supporting a judiciary that considers itself in social work rather than justice?
Not being spectacularly impressed if/when criminals stop breaking the law?
Preferring that the authorities put the rights of the public and victims of crime before the rights of criminals?
I am firmly behind the idea that criminals should be rehabilitated (where possible) and I am firmly in agreement that it's better for criminals to stop breaking the law than to continue to break it.
I'd suggest that all of the above are positive views.
[quote]Do you tar all criminals with the same brush, regardless of crime?
[/quote]
No, of course not. A pensioner jailed for non-payment of Council Tax is hardly the same as a repeat burglar who steals to fund a drug habit.
'Extreme views'?
Expecting convicted criminals to receive appropriate sentences?
Not supporting a judiciary that considers itself in social work rather than justice?
Not being spectacularly impressed if/when criminals stop breaking the law?
Preferring that the authorities put the rights of the public and victims of crime before the rights of criminals?
I am firmly behind the idea that criminals should be rehabilitated (where possible) and I am firmly in agreement that it's better for criminals to stop breaking the law than to continue to break it.
I'd suggest that all of the above are positive views.
Do you tar all criminals with the same brush, regardless of crime?
No, of course not. A pensioner jailed for non-payment of Council Tax is hardly the same as a repeat burglar who steals to fund a drug habit.
Posted by: HoneyPie, The Shire on 4:17pm Thu 22 May 08
You might be surprised to find that I do actually support most of what you say (with a slight variance on the judiciary as, with some possible exceptions, most judges hands are tied by the political circumstances they are forced to work in. It's hard to jail someone when there are insufficient places, for instance).
You say you are behind rehabilitating criminals where possible. I think this is a case where this is happening - you don't have to be spectacularly impressed by it, but you also don't have to be quite so hard on the guy.
We don't have to put out the bunting and have a party, but we could acknowledge that he is trying to make amends for what he has done.
You might be surprised to find that I do actually support most of what you say (with a slight variance on the judiciary as, with some possible exceptions, most judges hands are tied by the political circumstances they are forced to work in. It's hard to jail someone when there are insufficient places, for instance).
You say you are behind rehabilitating criminals where possible. I think this is a case where this is happening - you don't have to be spectacularly impressed by it, but you also don't have to be quite so hard on the guy.
We don't have to put out the bunting and have a party, but we could acknowledge that he is trying to make amends for what he has done.
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 4:30pm Thu 22 May 08
To be fair, I did actually comment above:
[quote]He has done well with his life, yes, and should be congratulated.[/quote]
I think what staggered me most on this thread were people feeling sorry for him that he missed his son's birth... when nobody but him was responsible for him missing it because he was in prison.
To be fair, I did actually comment above:
He has done well with his life, yes, and should be congratulated.
I think what staggered me most on this thread were people feeling sorry for him that he missed his son's birth... when nobody but him was responsible for him missing it because he was in prison.
Posted by: eminencegris, swindon on 4:41pm Thu 22 May 08
We have common ground, Frontier, it seems...but it's taken some time to get there (although it's a nonsense that the judiciary concerns itself with social work rather than justice. It's just insufficient justice in your eyes, and probably in the eyes of many more here).
I don't think anyone here has been 'spectacularly impressed' by Mr James' choosing to turn his back on a life of crime, but surely you would agree that it's worth reporting? He might not be a role model, but if he makes one person stop and think (he just might, you never know) then the Adver's done a good job.
We have common ground, Frontier, it seems...but it's taken some time to get there (although it's a nonsense that the judiciary concerns itself with social work rather than justice. It's just insufficient justice in your eyes, and probably in the eyes of many more here).
I don't think anyone here has been 'spectacularly impressed' by Mr James' choosing to turn his back on a life of crime, but surely you would agree that it's worth reporting? He might not be a role model, but if he makes one person stop and think (he just might, you never know) then the Adver's done a good job.
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 4:54pm Thu 22 May 08
Seriously, you only need to read the Adver (every day) and you'll see report after report from courts where the actual sentencing guidelines that form part of the law of the land are blatantly ignored and disregarded by certain judges.
They genuinely do seem to believe they're there to act as social workers for criminals rather than to do the job we pay them to do, which is to sentence according to the legal guidelines.
Even when they do, you can rest assured they only ever hand down custodial sentences at the minimum tariff end of the spectrum.
Only today we read of a young criminal who held a gun to the head of a child he robbed.
UK law dictates a [bold]mandatory[/bold] five-year jail term on criminal conviction of gun possession.
Our judge passed a sentence of just three years.
The same judge will no doubt shortly proclaim his 'disgust' at the rising tide of gun crime in this country.
Honestly, it's just pathetic now. It's no longer even remotely amusing how deluded and clueless these people are.
Seriously, you only need to read the Adver (every day) and you'll see report after report from courts where the actual sentencing guidelines that form part of the law of the land are blatantly ignored and disregarded by certain judges.
They genuinely do seem to believe they're there to act as social workers for criminals rather than to do the job we pay them to do, which is to sentence according to the legal guidelines.
Even when they do, you can rest assured they only ever hand down custodial sentences at the minimum tariff end of the spectrum.
Only today we read of a young criminal who held a gun to the head of a child he robbed.
UK law dictates a
mandatory five-year jail term on criminal conviction of gun possession.
Our judge passed a sentence of just three years.
The same judge will no doubt shortly proclaim his 'disgust' at the rising tide of gun crime in this country.
Honestly, it's just pathetic now. It's no longer even remotely amusing how deluded and clueless these people are.
Posted by: Taxpower, Swinetown on 5:26pm Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]emmylou83[/bold] wrote:
[quote]breeding more social retards[/quote] So all criminals breed social retards then???[/quote] with a bit of genetic knowlege you will know that Criminals have a genetic profile running through their family. Sometimes it is dormant but it is triggered by certain events.
So yes, criminals breed social retards = future criminals
emmylou83 wrote:
breeding more social retards
So all criminals breed social retards then???
with a bit of genetic knowlege you will know that Criminals have a genetic profile running through their family. Sometimes it is dormant but it is triggered by certain events.
So yes, criminals breed social retards = future criminals
Posted by: eminencegris, swindon on 6:48pm Thu 22 May 08
Needless to say Taxpower seems to have jumped to scientific conclusions that geneticists don't. Take this from eminent geneticist Professor Steve Jones, for example: [bold]
"Yes, there is a gene for crime. It's the gene that leads the very early embryo, which is nearly always female, into the path of being male. It's the male gene. Almost all criminals are male. That shows what happens if you pursue this argument to its logical conclusion.Crime is inherited. Many children who grow up to be criminals turn out to have had fathers who were criminals. But it doesn't mean crime is encoded into DNA, that a specific propensity to rob, kill, embezzle, rape or mug courses through criminals' veins.
"Look at Australia. If there was a gene for crime, Australian blood would be thick with it, passed down from the high proportion of criminals among their founding fathers. Yet Australia is an exceptionally calm and ordered society."[/bold]
Whose your source, Taxpower?
Needless to say Taxpower seems to have jumped to scientific conclusions that geneticists don't. Take this from eminent geneticist Professor Steve Jones, for example:
"Yes, there is a gene for crime. It's the gene that leads the very early embryo, which is nearly always female, into the path of being male. It's the male gene. Almost all criminals are male. That shows what happens if you pursue this argument to its logical conclusion.Crime is inherited. Many children who grow up to be criminals turn out to have had fathers who were criminals. But it doesn't mean crime is encoded into DNA, that a specific propensity to rob, kill, embezzle, rape or mug courses through criminals' veins.
"Look at Australia. If there was a gene for crime, Australian blood would be thick with it, passed down from the high proportion of criminals among their founding fathers. Yet Australia is an exceptionally calm and ordered society."
Whose your source, Taxpower?
Posted by: irritated, swindon on 6:56pm Thu 22 May 08
I don't know where to start! Firstly, I am glad to see that the positive comments on this story far outweigh the negative, a fact that Gary truly appreciates, I'm sure!It seems to me that Frontier(s) attack's on Gary are more motivated by a grievance with the whole Justice system rather than one mans attempt to turn his life around and do something positive and meaningfull and totally worthy of recognition! You also seem to be under the mistaken belief that Gary has benefited from an education while in prison therefore enjoying the benefits of the taxpayer?....no! - re read the interview! This is what HE has achieved through HIS decision to change his life and HIS hard work! Something that should be greatly acknowledged as it's FAR easier to return to something thats familiar than change and do something to be proud of. I am extremely proud of Gary! If he manages to turn ONE life around through his experience then his efforts should be acknowledged! POSITIVELY! As for the unjustified attacks on his children!...Shame on you! We are ALL as a human race, capable of making bad decisions in life and that has NO bearing on our social standing, or what our offspring will become, are you saying that someone with an aristocratic upbring WON'T turn into a criminal because their family hasn't got the correct DNA ? DNA! that should stand for Disgraceful Negative Attitude! I for one am behind Gary and totally support this ONE mans effort to change.... maybe a few more 'upright' citizens should take a leaf out his book and reassess their tunnel visioned view of life!
I don't know where to start! Firstly, I am glad to see that the positive comments on this story far outweigh the negative, a fact that Gary truly appreciates, I'm sure!It seems to me that Frontier(s) attack's on Gary are more motivated by a grievance with the whole Justice system rather than one mans attempt to turn his life around and do something positive and meaningfull and totally worthy of recognition! You also seem to be under the mistaken belief that Gary has benefited from an education while in prison therefore enjoying the benefits of the taxpayer?....no! - re read the interview! This is what HE has achieved through HIS decision to change his life and HIS hard work! Something that should be greatly acknowledged as it's FAR easier to return to something thats familiar than change and do something to be proud of. I am extremely proud of Gary! If he manages to turn ONE life around through his experience then his efforts should be acknowledged! POSITIVELY! As for the unjustified attacks on his children!...Shame on you! We are ALL as a human race, capable of making bad decisions in life and that has NO bearing on our social standing, or what our offspring will become, are you saying that someone with an aristocratic upbring WON'T turn into a criminal because their family hasn't got the correct DNA ? DNA! that should stand for Disgraceful Negative Attitude! I for one am behind Gary and totally support this ONE mans effort to change.... maybe a few more 'upright' citizens should take a leaf out his book and reassess their tunnel visioned view of life!
Posted by: LordBelacqua, Swindon on 11:03am Fri 23 May 08
[quote][bold]Taxpower[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]emmylou83[/bold] wrote: [quote]breeding more social retards[/quote] So all criminals breed social retards then???[/quote] with a bit of genetic knowlege you will know that Criminals have a genetic profile running through their family. Sometimes it is dormant but it is triggered by certain events. So yes, criminals breed social retards = future criminals[/quote] So, you consider yourself to have genetic knowledge huh? With a claim like that?
Please.
Taxpower wrote:
emmylou83 wrote: breeding more social retards
So all criminals breed social retards then???
with a bit of genetic knowlege you will know that Criminals have a genetic profile running through their family. Sometimes it is dormant but it is triggered by certain events. So yes, criminals breed social retards = future criminals
So, you consider yourself to have genetic knowledge huh? With a claim like that?
Please.
Posted by: Sara, Oxfordshire on 12:02pm Fri 23 May 08
The comments on this have been very funny on the whole by those who have been trying to put a negative slant on this story. I think the likes of Taxpower and Frontier need to have a think about what they are trying to achieve. To merely posture and pontificate with a self-righteous 'are we the only ones who care about our failing society' air merely alienates others and undermines the position they are trying to hold. It is important to choose your battles and concede ground when you are shown to be wrong. Continuously attempting to justify a position that is clearly incorrect simply means that when you do speak the truth it is dismissed as just more ranting. This is disappointing as it gives people the opportunity to label a strong position on law and order as right wing diatribe. As somebody who believes that sentencing in this country needs to be significantly toughened up (life should mean life but at least not less than 35 years for example) I get frustrated when your poor presenting of that sort of position just weakens the case.
The comments on this have been very funny on the whole by those who have been trying to put a negative slant on this story. I think the likes of Taxpower and Frontier need to have a think about what they are trying to achieve. To merely posture and pontificate with a self-righteous 'are we the only ones who care about our failing society' air merely alienates others and undermines the position they are trying to hold. It is important to choose your battles and concede ground when you are shown to be wrong. Continuously attempting to justify a position that is clearly incorrect simply means that when you do speak the truth it is dismissed as just more ranting. This is disappointing as it gives people the opportunity to label a strong position on law and order as right wing diatribe. As somebody who believes that sentencing in this country needs to be significantly toughened up (life should mean life but at least not less than 35 years for example) I get frustrated when your poor presenting of that sort of position just weakens the case.
Posted by: Sara, Oxfordshire on 12:09pm Fri 23 May 08
The comments on this have been very funny on the whole by those who have been trying to put a negative slant on this story. I think the likes of Taxpower and Frontier need to have a think about what they are trying to achieve. To merely posture and pontificate with a self-righteous 'are we the only ones who care about our failing society' air merely alienates others and undermines the position they are trying to hold. It is important to choose your battles and concede ground when you are shown to be wrong. Continuously attempting to justify a position that is clearly incorrect simply means that when you do speak the truth it is dismissed as just more ranting. This is disappointing as it gives people the opportunity to label a strong position on law and order as right wing diatribe. As somebody who believes that sentencing in this country needs to be significantly toughened up (life should mean life but at least not less than 35 years for example) I get frustrated when your poor presenting of that sort of position just weakens the case.
The comments on this have been very funny on the whole by those who have been trying to put a negative slant on this story. I think the likes of Taxpower and Frontier need to have a think about what they are trying to achieve. To merely posture and pontificate with a self-righteous 'are we the only ones who care about our failing society' air merely alienates others and undermines the position they are trying to hold. It is important to choose your battles and concede ground when you are shown to be wrong. Continuously attempting to justify a position that is clearly incorrect simply means that when you do speak the truth it is dismissed as just more ranting. This is disappointing as it gives people the opportunity to label a strong position on law and order as right wing diatribe. As somebody who believes that sentencing in this country needs to be significantly toughened up (life should mean life but at least not less than 35 years for example) I get frustrated when your poor presenting of that sort of position just weakens the case.
Posted by: I Too Could Be a Councillor, Swindon on 5:02pm Fri 23 May 08
[quote]Taxpower and [bold]Frontier[/bold] need to have a think about what they are trying to achieve. To merely posture and pontificate with a self-righteous 'are we the only ones who care about our failing society' air merely alienates others and undermines the position they are trying to hold.[/quote]
That's very true, but now you'll probably be accused of being a member of The Labour Party
Taxpower and Frontier need to have a think about what they are trying to achieve. To merely posture and pontificate with a self-righteous 'are we the only ones who care about our failing society' air merely alienates others and undermines the position they are trying to hold.
That's very true, but now you'll probably be accused of being a member of The Labour Party
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