Warning after cyclists hurt (From Swindon Advertiser)

It is quite simply a case of self preservation. Expect the unexpected.

A cyclist might have the right of way on roundabouts etc but I'd sooner stop than get hit by a car.

Cyclists should have to do some kind of training if only to make them aware of the dangers. Something like a CBT for motorcyclists.

All road users should have some basic training including being tested on the highway code but it will never happen for cyclists.
It would be a bureaucratic nightmare and end up costing the tax payer vast sums of money.

I am always on my bike around swindon and the way people drive around town is unbelieavable,we must have some of the most idiotic drivers in the whole of Britain or is it the same everywhere.i cannot believe how many people have brought cars with out indicators or are they that thick that they don't know what they are used for.then their are the idiots that start to indicate as they are going around the corner which is a little to late.i have have car drivers who cut me up at junctions,swerve in front of me,overtake that close I could open their door as they pass,they drive that close behind they almost touch my wheel, the list goes on,young women and old people are the worse overall but more men don't indicate.These idiots need to wake up before they do hit someone off there bike.but unfortunatly the situation is clearly getting worse judging by the amount of accidents that occur in swindon.

Mushymushy, you are right about Swindon drivers, I have never lived anywhere where so few bother to indicate or tailgate you in the rush hour when you cant go any faster anyway, it really is quite amazing.

On the other side I do get fed up with cyclists who could use cycle paths but dont bother, especially down Akers Way where i have seen cyclists on the road holding up the traffic even though there is a cycle lane on the pavement just inches away, that is just plain stupid. Also far too many with no lights on or dark clothing who just cant be seen either.

There are problems on both sides, as there are with most things including motorbikes too, usually down to selfishness and ignorance, which sadly seems to be an ever increasing part of human nature.

House on the hill,

Mostly right apart from the statement about cycle lanes. They are shared paths, with pedestrians, prams, dogs and the rest, which are for inexperienced cyclists or cyclists lacking self confidence to ride on the public highway.
Cyclists on the road, paid for by council taxes, are part of the traffic, if more people cycled instead of driving a few miles then there would be less cars and all traffic would flow more freely.

^^^

The path on Akers Way has a painted separation for bikes/pedestrians. It is an off-road route for cyclists in this area and is listed as such on the Swindon cycle network leaflets. There is no logical reason for not using it.They are not for 'inexperienced' cyclists, they are meant to be for ALL cyclists.

Of course Mushymushy the same can be said regarding the vast number of stupid and ignorant cyclists around Swindon.
These are the ones who fail to use any hand signals, fail to observe traffic lights and pedestrian crossings, fail to have lights on their bicycles, fail to have an audible warning device fitted, fail to use cycle paths, fail to get off their bicycles in the town centre, ride bicycles on pedestrian crossings, overtake slow moving traffic on the inside, fail to give way to traffic already on round-a-bouts etc etc..
Don't try to lay all the blame on the motorists, the cyclists in Swindon have plenty to answer for themselves.

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man

Just because all cyclists can use it does not mean all cyclists should use it.
Many logical reasons why an experienced cyclist would not use a shared path, such as pedestrians(who have priority and can use any part of the shared path, the painted line is meaningless) are unpredictable, often oblivious to what's is behind them. A cyclist is far more likely to have an accident on a shared path, although they tend to be less severe than an accident on the road. Any cyclist who is reasonably quick(DfT recommends over 18mph but that is still to quick for a shared resource) should not be on the same path as pedestrians.

Perhaps if more cyclists are legal ie lights and bell and are more tolerant and are prepared to use their brakes more often then you could accept the gripes. I have trouble walking and at pedestrian lights in Devizes road some idiot with all the gear on decided not to stop when the lights turned red and came up on the pavement and just missed me. I'm afraid that there are too many of these Lycra clad wallies doing silly tricks like that and buying those special gloves that get superglued to the handlebars hence no signals.

We should all give and take on the roads but it seems each side has a reason not to. Only tonight I saw a cyclist on Tadpole lane with no lights dressed in dark Lycra.

Robh wrote:
Perhaps if more cyclists are legal ie lights and bell and are more tolerant and are prepared to use their brakes more often then you could accept the gripes. I have trouble walking and at pedestrian lights in Devizes road some idiot with all the gear on decided not to stop when the lights turned red and came up on the pavement and just missed me. I'm afraid that there are too many of these Lycra clad wallies doing silly tricks like that and buying those special gloves that get superglued to the handlebars hence no signals.

We should all give and take on the roads but it seems each side has a reason not to. Only tonight I saw a cyclist on Tadpole lane with no lights dressed in dark Lycra.

"more tolerant and are prepared to use their brakes more often then", the same can be said for all road users (an exception for most HGV drivers, especially Iceland HGV drivers).

There are no excuses for cyclists without lights, i's just barmy, pavement riding and general bad/reckless cycling are also worthy of scorn, shame there are no police around to enforce the laws.

Please let me start by saying;

I really hope the two people who were hurt on new years eve recover fully and quickly.

I also hope society recovers and starts to see the human cost of these avoidable tradegies (please do not refer to them as accidents they are not)

Motorists and cyclists bashing each other for being in the wrong rather than working to together to resolve the issues will not make the streets safer or better for either road user, Until we have safe usable infrastructure for all road users of which there are many different types then these types of incidents will continue to happen.

What are we coming too when, as a society, rather than wishing people speedy recovery we would rather start arguments.

I'm not trying to be funny, yes there are problems with cyclists as well as motorists but has anyone bothered to read the actual article before posting cycling or motoring bashing emails.

I don't know the exact circumstances of either accident but if a dog runs out in front of you it doesn't matter if your on a path or road your gonna come a cropper and it will hurt as the poor cyclist found on new years eve.

P.s Cycle helmets are only effective up to 12mph after that while they have some benefits they are greatly reduced.

I'm fed up with seeing cyclists breaking the law - the three most common illegal things I see cyclists doing are going through red lights, jumping up on the pavement and then cycling across the pedestrian crossing and then going back onto the road when the lights are on red at a cross roads, and cycling on footpaths.

If cyclists want others to take them seriously I suggest they start taking the law of the land seriously - and it would also be nice to see some enforcement action from PC Plod

Crafty1980 you make some very good points and I totally agree we have to stop calling these incidents "accidents" as most are caused by "driver/cyclist error" and could have been avoided with a bit of care and attention.

Sadly even with the most effective infrastructure in place it is still down to the individuals who use it so it will as always come back to the attitudes of the users rather than resources and infrastructure. The only point I would add is that most people live their lives by double standards by which I mean they expect others to live to a higher standard than they are prepared to themsleves. Drivers want to be able to drive like prats and blame the cyclists and vice versa and i dont see that changing anytime soon with the current "me, me, me" society we live in.

As for Nobody, I am not sure what you mean by "experienced" cyclists. Just because you have done something for a considerable length of time doesnt mean you know what you are doing (as evidenced by many of our local councillors!). Cyclists are not required to take any lessons or have any training whatsover. They are not required to take a test of any kind nor is there an "MOT" for their bikes to ensure they are roadworthy. You may pay your conucil tax as the rest of us are forced to but you pay no road tax or insurance to use the roads so as far as I am concerned you shouldnt be there even more so when alternatives are provided.

Our roads are not designed for cyclists as well as cars and bikes will always cause a traffic jam behind them as they travel more slowly and cycle paths are there for all cyclists including those arrogant ones who consider themsleves to be "above" their less experienced cousins.

Yes I also wish those involved a speedy recovery but as has been said we dont know the actual causes of the incidents so it could have actually been the cyclists fault in the first place. Everyone needs to start being a bit more responsible for their actions especially those that impact on other people, but from what I have seen of today's world I wont be holding my breath,

Mushymushy wrote:
I am always on my bike around swindon and the way people drive around town is unbelieavable,we must have some of the most idiotic drivers in the whole of Britain or is it the same everywhere.i cannot believe how many people have brought cars with out indicators or are they that thick that they don't know what they are used for.then their are the idiots that start to indicate as they are going around the corner which is a little to late.i have have car drivers who cut me up at junctions,swerve in front of me,overtake that close I could open their door as they pass,they drive that close behind they almost touch my wheel, the list goes on,young women and old people are the worse overall but more men don't indicate.These idiots need to wake up before they do hit someone off there bike.but unfortunatly the situation is clearly getting worse judging by the amount of accidents that occur in swindon.

Unfortunately it is not just Swindon, it's the same everywhere. I think many people haven't ever read their Highway Code.

house on the hill wrote:
Crafty1980 you make some very good points and I totally agree we have to stop calling these incidents "accidents" as most are caused by "driver/cyclist error" and could have been avoided with a bit of care and attention.

Sadly even with the most effective infrastructure in place it is still down to the individuals who use it so it will as always come back to the attitudes of the users rather than resources and infrastructure. The only point I would add is that most people live their lives by double standards by which I mean they expect others to live to a higher standard than they are prepared to themsleves. Drivers want to be able to drive like prats and blame the cyclists and vice versa and i dont see that changing anytime soon with the current "me, me, me" society we live in.

As for Nobody, I am not sure what you mean by "experienced" cyclists. Just because you have done something for a considerable length of time doesnt mean you know what you are doing (as evidenced by many of our local councillors!). Cyclists are not required to take any lessons or have any training whatsover. They are not required to take a test of any kind nor is there an "MOT" for their bikes to ensure they are roadworthy. You may pay your conucil tax as the rest of us are forced to but you pay no road tax or insurance to use the roads so as far as I am concerned you shouldnt be there even more so when alternatives are provided.

Our roads are not designed for cyclists as well as cars and bikes will always cause a traffic jam behind them as they travel more slowly and cycle paths are there for all cyclists including those arrogant ones who consider themsleves to be "above" their less experienced cousins.

Yes I also wish those involved a speedy recovery but as has been said we dont know the actual causes of the incidents so it could have actually been the cyclists fault in the first place. Everyone needs to start being a bit more responsible for their actions especially those that impact on other people, but from what I have seen of today's world I wont be holding my breath,

I largely agree with you, I always give extra care to cyclists while driving, just wish cyclists would do the same for me when I'm a pedestrian!

PJC wrote:

Mushymushy wrote:
I am always on my bike around swindon and the way people drive around town is unbelieavable,we must have some of the most idiotic drivers in the whole of Britain or is it the same everywhere.i cannot believe how many people have brought cars with out indicators or are they that thick that they don't know what they are used for.then their are the idiots that start to indicate as they are going around the corner which is a little to late.i have have car drivers who cut me up at junctions,swerve in front of me,overtake that close I could open their door as they pass,they drive that close behind they almost touch my wheel, the list goes on,young women and old people are the worse overall but more men don't indicate.These idiots need to wake up before they do hit someone off there bike.but unfortunatly the situation is clearly getting worse judging by the amount of accidents that occur in swindon.

Unfortunately it is not just Swindon, it's the same everywhere. I think many people haven't ever read their Highway Code.

That also applies to the multitude of cyclists who have never read the Highway Code.

Always Grumpy wrote:

PJC wrote:

Mushymushy wrote:
I am always on my bike around swindon and the way people drive around town is unbelieavable,we must have some of the most idiotic drivers in the whole of Britain or is it the same everywhere.i cannot believe how many people have brought cars with out indicators or are they that thick that they don't know what they are used for.then their are the idiots that start to indicate as they are going around the corner which is a little to late.i have have car drivers who cut me up at junctions,swerve in front of me,overtake that close I could open their door as they pass,they drive that close behind they almost touch my wheel, the list goes on,young women and old people are the worse overall but more men don't indicate.These idiots need to wake up before they do hit someone off there bike.but unfortunatly the situation is clearly getting worse judging by the amount of accidents that occur in swindon.

Unfortunately it is not just Swindon, it's the same everywhere. I think many people haven't ever read their Highway Code.

That also applies to the multitude of cyclists who have never read the Highway Code.

Yes. I think many people haven't read their highway code, even though it applies to everyone. Some pedestrians are terrible, they just step out into the road without looking. It is everyone's responsibility!

house on the hill wrote:
Crafty1980 you make some very good points and I totally agree we have to stop calling these incidents "accidents" as most are caused by "driver/cyclist error" and could have been avoided with a bit of care and attention.

Sadly even with the most effective infrastructure in place it is still down to the individuals who use it so it will as always come back to the attitudes of the users rather than resources and infrastructure. The only point I would add is that most people live their lives by double standards by which I mean they expect others to live to a higher standard than they are prepared to themsleves. Drivers want to be able to drive like prats and blame the cyclists and vice versa and i dont see that changing anytime soon with the current "me, me, me" society we live in.

As for Nobody, I am not sure what you mean by "experienced" cyclists. Just because you have done something for a considerable length of time doesnt mean you know what you are doing (as evidenced by many of our local councillors!). Cyclists are not required to take any lessons or have any training whatsover. They are not required to take a test of any kind nor is there an "MOT" for their bikes to ensure they are roadworthy. You may pay your conucil tax as the rest of us are forced to but you pay no road tax or insurance to use the roads so as far as I am concerned you shouldnt be there even more so when alternatives are provided.

Our roads are not designed for cyclists as well as cars and bikes will always cause a traffic jam behind them as they travel more slowly and cycle paths are there for all cyclists including those arrogant ones who consider themsleves to be "above" their less experienced cousins.

Yes I also wish those involved a speedy recovery but as has been said we dont know the actual causes of the incidents so it could have actually been the cyclists fault in the first place. Everyone needs to start being a bit more responsible for their actions especially those that impact on other people, but from what I have seen of today's world I wont be holding my breath,

house on the hill,

Use google and look up "road tax", it has not existed for over 70 years and insurance does not pay for the local roads, council tax does.
I have third party insurance for when I choose to use pedal power instead of engine power.
You will also find it is cars that cause traffic jams not bicycles, the odd time I have to drive the two miles or so to work the traffic is a nightmare and that has nothing to do with any bicycles just too many cars.
As stated earlier I'm all for training for all road users, just I can see it will never happen. Cyclists should obtain training on how to ride and how to keep the bike roadworthy because it is in their own interests.

Nobody, the point i was trying to make is that any idiot can just pick up a rusty old bike with no lights or brakes and ride on the highway and there is no law against it (apart from the law of common sense that seems to elude so many in todays world). I would imagine you are in a very small minority of cyclists who have any insurance and it isnt what the tax goes to pay for it is the fact cyclists pay nothing in addition to council tax that we all pay anyway, car drivers who have to pay for lessons, tests, tax and insurance as well as MOT's on their vehicles. It is just a very stupid system.

Only this evening on a 5 min drive there were 3 cyclists in the dark with no lights on, on the road it really is hard to blame drivers for that sort of idiotic behaviour. And not all traffic jams are caused by cars, a lot are caused by pedestrians where a crossing will bring upwards of 50 cars to a standstill just to let one pedestrian cross the road as those who commute past Bruce Street bridges will testify.

@ Nobody, expenditure on local roads is financed by a combination of council tax, central government funding and developer contributions (Section 106).