Swindon school gets tough over AWOL pupils (From Swindon Advertiser)

Shame we can't fine schools for closing for a bit of Snow & Ice......... What a crazy crazy world this is becoming!!!!

Apply the same rules to teaching staff as well. After all every teaching day counts!

Allow parents to bill the school for teacher training days which are taken during school term time and not during one of the many weeks where the kids are not in the school.

From friends who are teachers (once they get a few drinks in them) you find out what really goes on and hard being a teacher really is.

I can honestly say i don't remember ever having to stay at home from school because of a bit of snow, as for st joe's head being tough it's not the impression students have of her, as for the fine's it's all hypercritical them against us

If the schools spent time teaching properly rather than showing videos in class and actually asssessing their students correctly as well as taking holidays like the rest of us then I may be more sympathetic to their plight.

Those teacher training days were a real pain for me when the children were younger and whilst I was trying to work full time. I was also a lone parent with no child care support. Add to that the days when the school was closed for leavers day, a little snow, no heating at school, the children were ill or needed to attend appointments, I had very little holiday leave left for a family holiday!

The education is not what is used to be either so parents are having to make up the shortfall in teaching, reading, spelling, handwriting, times tables and even telling the time. Apparently schools do not have enough time in the day to teach some of the more basics or that's what my daughter's teacher told me.

If children today had more academically supportive parents who didnt rely on teachers to raise other peoples children, if discipline hadnt gone out of the window and if consequences for missing school were applied rather than just threatened, then schools across the town wouldnt have a problem.

Its always someone elses fault in this society....if you have kids dont expect others to raise them!!!

Can schools like St. Josephs honestly say they offer a 100% teaching and learning experience. Of course they can't so why look towards 100% attendance.


What percentage of schooltime is spent in hands of supply teachers or teaching assistants who don't offer a full education.

It is the pot calling the kettle black.

gina948 wrote:
If children today had more academically supportive parents who didnt rely on teachers to raise other peoples children, if discipline hadnt gone out of the window and if consequences for missing school were applied rather than just threatened, then schools across the town wouldnt have a problem.

Its always someone elses fault in this society....if you have kids dont expect others to raise them!!!

I am academically supportive of my kids. Both are at the top of their classes. This is because we have taught them at home. The schools do not stretch them or provide any kind of motivation for the kids to do more than the minimum effort required and never teach outside of the curriculum, so it's not really surprising that some kids misbehave - they're probably bored. Not an excuse, but there's generally a reason why some classes are better behaved than others - it's generally down to the environment that the teacher fosters...

I'm in agreement that measures should be in place to stop parents taking kids out of school for weeks/months, but some seem to have taken it rather too far. For instance, some schools will now put a black mark against the kids record if they have to go to the doctor/dentist in school time. Parents generally have little to no control over when appointments are made (especially for referrals) so this seems rather unfair on the kids.

I kind of agree with some of the above - kids rarely do any work of high importance in the last week or so of a summer term, so taking them out for an educational holiday (to another country for instance) will not harm them in any way - in fact it's probably better for their overall development as it's like a mega field trip!

Sadly, some parents do try to take their youngsters out at ridiculous times i.e. the run up to examinations or when they are in their first weeks at a new school. If these parents pick up a fine to be honest they will, in most instances, deserve it. However, for others the cost of a family holiday in school time is exorbitant. In these circumstances, and provided it is not more than once a year, I think a fine is over the top. A family holiday can brings its own benefits and these should not be disregarded. I think essentially I am wary of hard and fast rules when the issues behind each absence should be assessed individually.

For example, a family making a holiday request to go on an expensive holiday to Bermuda because prices are cheaper in October is very different to a family on a limited income looking to hire a caravan in Dorset in October because that is the only family holiday they can afford.

I do find it slightly chilling that the agents of the state would physically threaten parents for not having their children sit in a room being berated by failed graduates.

Someday, somewhere, many people will realise that 7 hours & 5 days a week in a class room isn't the best way to learn...

I am now feeling very thankful that my children do not go to St. Josephs and if they did I would be looking for a new school pronto! Every child and their circumstances should be treated individually, and saying that every school day counts is complete rubbish - if the schools really believed this then they would'nt have numerous teacher training days and spend the whole last week before most school holidays playing games and watching dvd's. Luckily the head teacher at my childrens school has the attitude that a holiday IS a learning experience and always gives the kids an exercise book to write a holiday diary.

Its certainly a topical debate. What strikes me the most these days (clearly as I'm getting older) is how young the teachers are. Most are inexperienced graduates lacking life skills and being confident our children are receiving the best educational attention is difficult to ensure. Often children from mixed backgrounds can cast long shadows on other more influential children and weak teaching practices only encourage poor behaviour through those who become bored and disruptive. But, the main thing that strikes me in todays teaching, is the fact that most of the older teachers who did teach the class and manage the behaviour and understand the needs of their pupils are unfortuately retiring or leaving as young feral kids dominate the classes. The younger teachers, fresh out of uni cant cope and why on earth should it be their job to wind the necks in of these unappreciative 3uggers! I do feel for the teachers in todays classes. The kids are worse than ever. I think the holidays are more for the staff than the children but as previously stated, holiday prices go through the roof during this time and of course I do agree that if the holiday taken benefits the childs studies then no, the parents should not be penilised for removing their child through term time for such an opportunity. More over; I actually think all kids today should be sent to the third world to see for themselves how lucky they are to receive a free education and to absorb the gratitude of children who do receive an education over there! How many of us recall having "Behaviour teachers" at school when we went and yet now, its the norm to have this post employed!

Do we have any say in the poor education some schools are offering.

I asked my grandchildren about last term and it seems only about 60% of secondary school lessons were taken by their subject teachers.

As I said before it is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Before these headteachers get on their high horse they should put their own house in order. Perhaps they should have to pay parents £10 for every lesson not taught by a subject teacher.

Robh wrote:
Do we have any say in the poor education some schools are offering. I asked my grandchildren about last term and it seems only about 60% of secondary school lessons were taken by their subject teachers. As I said before it is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Before these headteachers get on their high horse they should put their own house in order. Perhaps they should have to pay parents £10 for every lesson not taught by a subject teacher.

I think half of the teaching staff are off due to stress!

Talk about getting a sledgehammer to crack a walnut!

Why is nobody asking the children why they are bunking off? Are they bored in lessons, are they being bullied or threatened and so are scared to go to school?

If it's the latter, and the school is saying 'oh well you have to attend or else we'll fine your parents' then that is tantamount to evil. No child should fear going to school, and bullying happens at EVERY school - even in the posh ones and the top academies.

This stubborn, inflexible, state-control of our children attitude will do nothing to help children develop. Instead it will invoke a fear culture - big brother anybody?

It's time to scrap the current way of education, bring back the three R's and let children leave school at 14 and go into training if they find school boring.

Ref: Simon Price @ 5.12 p.m.

What will young people leave to at 14? Training providers are already overstretched. There actually is a national debate to be had on the future direction of education and training. It needs though to be part of a fuller moratorium on education and not knee jerk. Ideally, it also needs to involve a broader range of people than just politicians.

I do agree with your point on inflexible state control. I think educationalists now have too many diktats and initiatives to implement at the behest of the politicos. At times in education it must seem like ministers are working on the basis of a gimmick a day. Implementing these gimmicks becomes draining on staff; creates initiative fatigue and becomes a distraction from the core task of a school - delivering effective learning in the classroom.

Too often people have a swipe at the educators without considering the raft of changes they have to cope with and the adverse impact that this has on their effectiveness. I think those who have limited recent knowledge of education would be surprised at the amount of reform.

The point is schools should not be charging for kids missing school when they can't for what ever reason provide a full time education whilst they are in school.

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
Apply the same rules to teaching staff as well. After all every teaching day counts!

Allow parents to bill the school for teacher training days which are taken during school term time and not during one of the many weeks where the kids are not in the school.

From friends who are teachers (once they get a few drinks in them) you find out what really goes on and hard being a teacher really is.

Teacher training days aren't taken out of pupils term time lessons.
Kenneth Baker, who introduced them in 1988, in effect took 5 days out of teachers holidays in exchange for the 5 training days. Pupils still get the same number of holidays and school days (190) as they did before the training days were introduced. Staff on the other hand are contracted to 195 days in school - 190 days when the pupils are there and 5 days training.

Always Grumpy wrote:

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
Apply the same rules to teaching staff as well. After all every teaching day counts!

Allow parents to bill the school for teacher training days which are taken during school term time and not during one of the many weeks where the kids are not in the school.

From friends who are teachers (once they get a few drinks in them) you find out what really goes on and hard being a teacher really is.

Teacher training days aren't taken out of pupils term time lessons.
Kenneth Baker, who introduced them in 1988, in effect took 5 days out of teachers holidays in exchange for the 5 training days. Pupils still get the same number of holidays and school days (190) as they did before the training days were introduced. Staff on the other hand are contracted to 195 days in school - 190 days when the pupils are there and 5 days training.

Here, here!

I challenge anyone to teach for a day in a school. It is hard work for very little thanks and very few teachers actually work 9-3.30 everyday. Most of the teachers I know and work with spend a lot of their evenings and weekends planning and getting resources together. How many office/ shop/ manufacturing employees take work home with them?

A lot of children start school not even having the basic skills of how to use cutlery or do a button up, parents need to take more responsibility.

Schooling in the UK is a legal requirement, if you want cheap holidays don't have children!

The parents who can't be bothered should have the means to reproduce removed,

Always Grumpy wrote:

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
Apply the same rules to teaching staff as well. After all every teaching day counts!

Allow parents to bill the school for teacher training days which are taken during school term time and not during one of the many weeks where the kids are not in the school.

From friends who are teachers (once they get a few drinks in them) you find out what really goes on and hard being a teacher really is.

Teacher training days aren't taken out of pupils term time lessons.
Kenneth Baker, who introduced them in 1988, in effect took 5 days out of teachers holidays in exchange for the 5 training days. Pupils still get the same number of holidays and school days (190) as they did before the training days were introduced. Staff on the other hand are contracted to 195 days in school - 190 days when the pupils are there and 5 days training.

Ah, so when a teacher training day falls on a day in term time when my child is supposed to be in school it must clearly be part of the holiday!

Half Terms, Christmas, Easter and Summer holidays are no different in length, yet the children are out for extra days classed as teacher training.

Given that teacher training days fall on what use to be term time teaching days and the school year is no longer than it use to be, I guess the extra 5 days a year must have been conjured up by magic!

wiltshiregal wrote:

Always Grumpy wrote:

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
Apply the same rules to teaching staff as well. After all every teaching day counts!

Allow parents to bill the school for teacher training days which are taken during school term time and not during one of the many weeks where the kids are not in the school.

From friends who are teachers (once they get a few drinks in them) you find out what really goes on and hard being a teacher really is.

Teacher training days aren't taken out of pupils term time lessons.
Kenneth Baker, who introduced them in 1988, in effect took 5 days out of teachers holidays in exchange for the 5 training days. Pupils still get the same number of holidays and school days (190) as they did before the training days were introduced. Staff on the other hand are contracted to 195 days in school - 190 days when the pupils are there and 5 days training.

Here, here!

I challenge anyone to teach for a day in a school. It is hard work for very little thanks and very few teachers actually work 9-3.30 everyday. Most of the teachers I know and work with spend a lot of their evenings and weekends planning and getting resources together. How many office/ shop/ manufacturing employees take work home with them?

A lot of children start school not even having the basic skills of how to use cutlery or do a button up, parents need to take more responsibility.

Schooling in the UK is a legal requirement, if you want cheap holidays don't have children!

There are many things in this country that are a legal requirement, but are allowed latitude and common sense.

The same argument could be applied to speeding. Its a legal requirement to drive within the speed limit. Can't keep your speed within the speed limit; don't have a car! Based on what I see on the roads every day there wouldn't be many cars about.

Pointless and petty argument!


The problem with your argument of how hard teaching is and how much time they really spent working is that many non teachers have friends who are teachers and get to hear about some of the stuff that goes on.

There are a lot of good hard working teachers around; but there are also bad ones.

As for this comment "How many office/ shop/ manufacturing employees take work home with them?", probably a lot more than you think work beyond their contracted hours.

"""SimonPrice351 says...
5:12pm Fri 25 Jan 13

Talk about getting a sledgehammer to crack a walnut!

Why is nobody asking the children why they are bunking off? Are they bored in lessons, are they being bullied or threatened and so are scared to go to school?""""

Simon there are some very good ways of measuring that but too many schools wont pay for it or are just too arrogant and say we know best. As will all professions, there are good and bad teachers, hard working and lazy ones, ones who see the job for what they can put into it and those who see it purely for what they can get out of it, some who are more concerned with league tables and OFSTED than they are about actually providing a good education for the pupils and some who understand the pupils are the most important, some who think their job is to inform and some who think their job is to preach etc etc.
As for attitudes, they are all as bad as each other, parents think its ok to break the rules and take their kids out if they want to, teachers blame parents and kids are given the worst possible role modles to follow. Any one who thinks its ok to pick and choose the rules we follow is just as bad as anyone esle. so some here think its ok to ignore the rule because they think it stupid well i think the rule that says i cant punch you in the face is stupid is it ok if i iginre that one?

A rule is a rule is a rule and is there to be followed irrepective of whether we agree with it or not otherwise where do we stop???? we all have different opinons and attitudes so it would be different for all with some doing some thing and others do in others, completely stupid. Good for the school to impose it. presumably then all those who didnt make it into work should be fined and all the businesses that didnt open too? Sometimes the weather catches us all out and there is nothing we can do about it.

As for working at home, yes teachers do it as do a lot of private sector workers too. If teachers dont like their job then go and do something else. There are so many really good ones and as always the bad minority drag the rest down.