Wichelstowe development to be joint venture with council and private partner (From Swindon Advertiser)

You just couldn't make it up

Even the Northern Development isn't finished yet! How will building more houses and offices at Tadpole Farm, Coate, East Swindon, Kingsdown, West Swindon and every green space in the town help the situation? Surely the sensible thing to do would be to finish what has been started before concreting over more countryside and green space.

Not another project they cant complete on their own, havent they learned from all the other partnerships and consultants that they dont work. and just what do we pay the council for apart from to waste our money. Pathetic

JeanSaunders wrote:
Even the Northern Development isn't finished yet! How will building more houses and offices at Tadpole Farm, Coate, East Swindon, Kingsdown, West Swindon and every green space in the town help the situation? Surely the sensible thing to do would be to finish what has been started before concreting over more countryside and green space.

Swindon is just a dumping ground for new houses and ill thought out developments. Even on the odd occasion when our local Councils don't want to build houses they get built anyway (Ridgeway Farm) because they are overruled by central govt. It's not just the current lot either, the last Govt used Swindon as a dumping ground for regional housing too.
Swindon still has lots of green compared to many places and we pretty much all live in houses built on what was once green land so I wont be hypocritical and say all development is bad, it isn't. I just don't see who is buying all these houses and where they are going to be working? Certainly not my kids' generation who are all priced out of the housing market unless they have parents with ever deepening pockets. When Swindon was growing fast in the 1960s and 1970s is was because firms were mving to Swindon; that just isn't happening now.

I agree with Pirate. until underlying issues such as jobs and infrastructure are properly thought out, this constant building for the sake of building is ridiculous.

Witchelstowe like much of the Northern developments is a mess of bad planning with small houses, minimal gardens and very little parking.

SBC to read SCS-will they be building more Council flats and houses?

peatmoor pirate wrote:

JeanSaunders wrote:
Even the Northern Development isn't finished yet! How will building more houses and offices at Tadpole Farm, Coate, East Swindon, Kingsdown, West Swindon and every green space in the town help the situation? Surely the sensible thing to do would be to finish what has been started before concreting over more countryside and green space.

Swindon is just a dumping ground for new houses and ill thought out developments. Even on the odd occasion when our local Councils don't want to build houses they get built anyway (Ridgeway Farm) because they are overruled by central govt. It's not just the current lot either, the last Govt used Swindon as a dumping ground for regional housing too.
Swindon still has lots of green compared to many places and we pretty much all live in houses built on what was once green land so I wont be hypocritical and say all development is bad, it isn't. I just don't see who is buying all these houses and where they are going to be working? Certainly not my kids' generation who are all priced out of the housing market unless they have parents with ever deepening pockets. When Swindon was growing fast in the 1960s and 1970s is was because firms were mving to Swindon; that just isn't happening now.

"where they are going to be working?" Building more houses ? Like rolling a snowball in the snow !

JeanSaunders wrote:
Even the Northern Development isn't finished yet! How will building more houses and offices at Tadpole Farm, Coate, East Swindon, Kingsdown, West Swindon and every green space in the town help the situation? Surely the sensible thing to do would be to finish what has been started before concreting over more countryside and green space.

Well said. The council should be answering this.

JeanSaunders wrote:
Even the Northern Development isn't finished yet! How will building more houses and offices at Tadpole Farm, Coate, East Swindon, Kingsdown, West Swindon and every green space in the town help the situation? Surely the sensible thing to do would be to finish what has been started before concreting over more countryside and green space.

What parts of the Northern Development aren't finished yet?

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
I agree with Pirate. until underlying issues such as jobs and infrastructure are properly thought out, this constant building for the sake of building is ridiculous.

Witchelstowe like much of the Northern developments is a mess of bad planning with small houses, minimal gardens and very little parking.

Have you been to Wichelstowe? Every house has at least one dedicated parking space with 80% having two spaces and there visitor spaces on each parcel. The gardens are quite generous except in the case of shared buildings i.e. flats.

Areas of RedHouse are still being build.

I think Haydon End is still under construction too.

Futura wrote:

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
I agree with Pirate. until underlying issues such as jobs and infrastructure are properly thought out, this constant building for the sake of building is ridiculous.

Witchelstowe like much of the Northern developments is a mess of bad planning with small houses, minimal gardens and very little parking.

Have you been to Wichelstowe? Every house has at least one dedicated parking space with 80% having two spaces and there visitor spaces on each parcel. The gardens are quite generous except in the case of shared buildings i.e. flats.

Generous gardens? The picture above shows the gardens are tiny or missing. A cramped estate in my opinion.

So what happened to the deal with Waitrose.

The reason Swindon has so much housing built in the last 30 years is that it's the cheapest town on the M4 in England. (except Chippenham which is a little way off the M4). The developers do well as the land is cheaper and the buyers come from miles around so they dont have to reply on the local town to sell houses. With no sign of pricess dropping Swindon will contiune to build cheaper priced houses. The problem is that this also keeps the local house prices low which is only a problem for home owners if they want to make a profit on their house.There is a net commuted out of Swindon as there aren't enough jobs for the number of houses. I live in North Swindon currently but moving up the M4 to nearer London next month. I was lucky to sell my house here in 4 days. I find North Swindon to just be so full of houses it's hard to sell as there is so much choice and it feels like a huge housing estate with no neighbourhood feel to it. My next door neighbours house. West Swindon is the same and so will be the Wichelstowe developement with the added noise of the M4 to contend with. Swindon isn't a bad place to live but the town centre is not up to the size of population and so I'm moving to somewhere with a decent choice of restuarants bars, and cultural venues.

It would be quite nice if the council had spent £45m on infrastructure in the northern and western developments. Then it might not be quite the traffic hell-hole that it is now.

RichardR1 wrote:
So what happened to the deal with Waitrose.

That-as you know is nothing to do with housing.

StillPav wrote:

JeanSaunders wrote:
Even the Northern Development isn't finished yet! How will building more houses and offices at Tadpole Farm, Coate, East Swindon, Kingsdown, West Swindon and every green space in the town help the situation? Surely the sensible thing to do would be to finish what has been started before concreting over more countryside and green space.

What parts of the Northern Development aren't finished yet?

According to the draft Swindon Borough Local Plan 2026, published in December 2012, it provides for 589 more houses to be built in the NDA (table 1 on p.35). Some of these may be completed now but there is still a target in place to build 132 new dwellings for 2013/14 in the housing trajectory (Appendix 6).

I have been through Wichelstowe on a number of times and to me them house,s look all cramped and small there are a number of house,s with no front garden and most of the homes have a sign up saying respect privacy and don,t look through the window because there house,s come right out on to the foot path.I for one would never buy a house on there there is no open space and all it seems to me is there is roads with massive kerbs and alot of house,s that's it.
I think the council should finish what they started instead of going off and doing another build or wanting to start another build these ppl have brought a house there and now they have just been dumped there and told to get on with it they have no doc,s one school and a pub

I thinkthe gardens are tiny too.
In answer to the question "what happened to the Waitrose deal?" the planning committee meet on 12 Feb to decide on the development of the Wichelstowe district centre, which includes a supermarket, yet to be confirmed as Waitrose. Look on the Swindon Borough Planning Portal application S/COND/12/1706 for more details.

It was part of a larger project including housing, 'aWAITROSE is set to sign a multi-million pound deal to deliver the planned Wichel-stowe District Centre and kick-start the next phase of home-building'. (First paragragh of original article)

As you well know, but once again you are simply trying to start another I said he said moment. Well forget it stalker.

Futura wrote:

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
I agree with Pirate. until underlying issues such as jobs and infrastructure are properly thought out, this constant building for the sake of building is ridiculous.

Witchelstowe like much of the Northern developments is a mess of bad planning with small houses, minimal gardens and very little parking.

Have you been to Wichelstowe? Every house has at least one dedicated parking space with 80% having two spaces and there visitor spaces on each parcel. The gardens are quite generous except in the case of shared buildings i.e. flats.

Actually yes I have.

The picture also suggests that the gardens are not generous and parking is at a premium.

itsamess3 wrote:

RichardR1 wrote:
So what happened to the deal with Waitrose.

That-as you know is nothing to do with housing.

Always looking to put one over Bob eh Messy. How is your court case against him going? Do you still have cameras set up to monitor him?

It's an admission of failure, of course, but, then, we all knew Wichelstowe had failed.

On the other hand, if a private partner can get things back on track and avoid the council losing even more money through interest payments, all well and good.

Better that somebody who can make it work comes in and gets things moving than the council just let things rot even further and cost us all even more money.

umpcah wrote:

peatmoor pirate wrote:

JeanSaunders wrote:
Even the Northern Development isn't finished yet! How will building more houses and offices at Tadpole Farm, Coate, East Swindon, Kingsdown, West Swindon and every green space in the town help the situation? Surely the sensible thing to do would be to finish what has been started before concreting over more countryside and green space.

Swindon is just a dumping ground for new houses and ill thought out developments. Even on the odd occasion when our local Councils don't want to build houses they get built anyway (Ridgeway Farm) because they are overruled by central govt. It's not just the current lot either, the last Govt used Swindon as a dumping ground for regional housing too.
Swindon still has lots of green compared to many places and we pretty much all live in houses built on what was once green land so I wont be hypocritical and say all development is bad, it isn't. I just don't see who is buying all these houses and where they are going to be working? Certainly not my kids' generation who are all priced out of the housing market unless they have parents with ever deepening pockets. When Swindon was growing fast in the 1960s and 1970s is was because firms were mving to Swindon; that just isn't happening now.

"where they are going to be working?" Building more houses ? Like rolling a snowball in the snow !

Yep and we all know what happens when the thaw comes.

Witch-hell-stole has got to be the ugliest new housing development in the country that's why nobody want's to live there, no two roof's the same pitch different coloured tile's/ brick's on nearly every plot, must have been a nightmare that the planner had so he put it down in black an white or maybe he wanted to have a laugh at swindon's expense, any one driving past on the motorway must think it's a Disney theme park ,why do these people keep there job's? oh i forgot nobody's in this country you do not have to take responsibility for your action's be it hospital's/ education/immigratio
n/ on an on

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:

Futura wrote:

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
I agree with Pirate. until underlying issues such as jobs and infrastructure are properly thought out, this constant building for the sake of building is ridiculous.

Witchelstowe like much of the Northern developments is a mess of bad planning with small houses, minimal gardens and very little parking.

Have you been to Wichelstowe? Every house has at least one dedicated parking space with 80% having two spaces and there visitor spaces on each parcel. The gardens are quite generous except in the case of shared buildings i.e. flats.

Actually yes I have.

The picture also suggests that the gardens are not generous and parking is at a premium.

Of course...look at all that on-street parking. Why I'd say it's almost as bad as Old Town. I can tell you with certainty that there are more dedicated parking spaces there than any other area in Swindon. The last I heard was that once building had finished and the council have adopted the roads there will be no on-street parking.

Futura wrote:

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:

Futura wrote:

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
I agree with Pirate. until underlying issues such as jobs and infrastructure are properly thought out, this constant building for the sake of building is ridiculous.

Witchelstowe like much of the Northern developments is a mess of bad planning with small houses, minimal gardens and very little parking.

Have you been to Wichelstowe? Every house has at least one dedicated parking space with 80% having two spaces and there visitor spaces on each parcel. The gardens are quite generous except in the case of shared buildings i.e. flats.

Actually yes I have.

The picture also suggests that the gardens are not generous and parking is at a premium.

Of course...look at all that on-street parking. Why I'd say it's almost as bad as Old Town. I can tell you with certainty that there are more dedicated parking spaces there than any other area in Swindon. The last I heard was that once building had finished and the council have adopted the roads there will be no on-street parking.

What you mean is there "should" be no on street parking just like many other areas in Swindon. However the reality is that people will park on the streets and no one will enforce the parking just like North Swindon.

When I look at the picture, I see a line of parked cars on the street on both roads going top to bottom. Are those designated car parking spaces then?

So do you know all the areas of Swindon and their parking arrangements then since you "claim with certainty"?

Davey Gravey wrote:

itsamess3 wrote:

RichardR1 wrote:
So what happened to the deal with Waitrose.

That-as you know is nothing to do with housing.

Always looking to put one over Bob eh Messy. How is your court case against him going? Do you still have cameras set up to monitor him?

You really do need to get your facts correct in your feeble attempts to disrupt an interesting article. Had you not noticed i had addressed that recently-namely that an appeal against a conviction in the 80s had been listed at the CCA. My involvement was merely to provide evidence. The camera incident has been widely misinterpreted and the images posted on you tube and flickr for a limited period and withdrawn when the matter became sub-judice.

As for getting one over on bob-no-just a reminder that he made a fool of himself on the waitrose thread and as that is a retail development of the district centre for wichelstowe.
The issue here being the article is about restarting the housing building there--which could generate jobs.

This debate has thrown up some interesting points and i suggest you take up any you disagee with rather than attempt disrupting the thread.

Tim Neuroman says...
12:32pm Fri 8 Feb 13

On the other hand, if a private partner can get things back on track and avoid the council losing even more money through interest payments, all well and good.

No. not good at all.
SBC will continue to learn nothing from their arrogant blunderings

Agree with Empty. What happens is the partner/consultant comes in, rips us off and disappears again with our money. Yes a good idea but it never works with this useless council. Swindon really is a mess and no wonder it is the butt of so many jokes.

itsamess3 wrote:

Davey Gravey wrote:

itsamess3 wrote:

RichardR1 wrote:
So what happened to the deal with Waitrose.

That-as you know is nothing to do with housing.

Always looking to put one over Bob eh Messy. How is your court case against him going? Do you still have cameras set up to monitor him?

You really do need to get your facts correct in your feeble attempts to disrupt an interesting article. Had you not noticed i had addressed that recently-namely that an appeal against a conviction in the 80s had been listed at the CCA. My involvement was merely to provide evidence. The camera incident has been widely misinterpreted and the images posted on you tube and flickr for a limited period and withdrawn when the matter became sub-judice.

As for getting one over on bob-no-just a reminder that he made a fool of himself on the waitrose thread and as that is a retail development of the district centre for wichelstowe.
The issue here being the article is about restarting the housing building there--which could generate jobs.

This debate has thrown up some interesting points and i suggest you take up any you disagee with rather than attempt disrupting the thread.

Selective memory I think old chap.

JeanSaunders wrote:
Even the Northern Development isn't finished yet! How will building more houses and offices at Tadpole Farm, Coate, East Swindon, Kingsdown, West Swindon and every green space in the town help the situation? Surely the sensible thing to do would be to finish what has been started before concreting over more countryside and green space.

New houses being built at Ocotal Way too.

Empty Car Park wrote:
Tim Neuroman says...
12:32pm Fri 8 Feb 13

On the other hand, if a private partner can get things back on track and avoid the council losing even more money through interest payments, all well and good.

No. not good at all.
SBC will continue to learn nothing from their arrogant blunderings

Oh dear.

So, what's your bright idea then? Leave it wholly under council control, they continue not to do what's necessary and then the town's left bankrupt in a few years time?

We know you have a pathological hatred of both the council and developers, but the reality is that Wichelstowe is there. It's happened. I fully agree it's been a disaster, but when faced with a disaster it is right and sensible to attempt to mitigate the fallout and correct things to as greater degree as you can.

Simply putting your head in the sand and waiting for everything to complete cave in around you might be your preferred option, but it's not the one that remotely sensible people would opt for.

The irony here is that you'd be the very first to be moaning about the council having done nothing if they took your advice and, well, did nothing.

If frontline services were to be hit in four years time, you'd moan. If the council try and make the best of a bad situation, you moan. In fact, there's nothing the council could do that means you wouldn't moan. Please remember that it was only 9 months ago that the town had an all-out local election and the people made their choices.

I know it pains you that your Labour friends didn't take control, but that, unfortunately for you, is democracy.

The development could be mothballed by simply getting the developers to complete whats started and leave the rest!

If the Witchelstowe development is a shambles, what hope for all the other large developments that have planning and not been built....!

Unfortunately deciding on how best to proceed requires full disclosure and our council have a track record in not doing that.

itsamess3 wrote:

Davey Gravey wrote:

itsamess3 wrote:

RichardR1 wrote:
So what happened to the deal with Waitrose.

That-as you know is nothing to do with housing.

Always looking to put one over Bob eh Messy. How is your court case against him going? Do you still have cameras set up to monitor him?

You really do need to get your facts correct in your feeble attempts to disrupt an interesting article. Had you not noticed i had addressed that recently-namely that an appeal against a conviction in the 80s had been listed at the CCA. My involvement was merely to provide evidence. The camera incident has been widely misinterpreted and the images posted on you tube and flickr for a limited period and withdrawn when the matter became sub-judice.

As for getting one over on bob-no-just a reminder that he made a fool of himself on the waitrose thread and as that is a retail development of the district centre for wichelstowe.
The issue here being the article is about restarting the housing building there--which could generate jobs.

This debate has thrown up some interesting points and i suggest you take up any you disagee with rather than attempt disrupting the thread.

Would you like me to look out your posts regarding the cameras?
I can post a link and then we can all see how "widely misinterpreted" you have been :-)

Phantom Poster wrote:

itsamess3 wrote:

Davey Gravey wrote:

itsamess3 wrote:

RichardR1 wrote:
So what happened to the deal with Waitrose.

That-as you know is nothing to do with housing.

Always looking to put one over Bob eh Messy. How is your court case against him going? Do you still have cameras set up to monitor him?

You really do need to get your facts correct in your feeble attempts to disrupt an interesting article. Had you not noticed i had addressed that recently-namely that an appeal against a conviction in the 80s had been listed at the CCA. My involvement was merely to provide evidence. The camera incident has been widely misinterpreted and the images posted on you tube and flickr for a limited period and withdrawn when the matter became sub-judice.

As for getting one over on bob-no-just a reminder that he made a fool of himself on the waitrose thread and as that is a retail development of the district centre for wichelstowe.
The issue here being the article is about restarting the housing building there--which could generate jobs.

This debate has thrown up some interesting points and i suggest you take up any you disagee with rather than attempt disrupting the thread.

Would you like me to look out your posts regarding the cameras?
I can post a link and then we can all see how "widely misinterpreted" you have been :-)

The lengths he goes to,to try and win an arguement on a local newspapers website said it all. A sad empty life trawling a bog standard towns rags website.

RichardR1 wrote:
It was part of a larger project including housing, 'aWAITROSE is set to sign a multi-million pound deal to deliver the planned Wichel-stowe District Centre and kick-start the next phase of home-building'. (First paragragh of original article)

As you well know, but once again you are simply trying to start another I said he said moment. Well forget it stalker.

Unfortunately your capability to understand that Waitrose are only interested in purchasing the land to build their store and deliver the district centre--much in the same way local residents have called for the promised leisure and play areas promised before the next phase of building took place.
Unlike you i am a born and bred swindonian and as such remember the birth of the idea to develop the front garden which came after the compulsory purchase of land for a school behind w/bassett rd--the land was then turned into housing--further land then purchased (compulsory) which was farmland right the way up to the motorway and finally the front garden.
Recently a massive project which is nearing completion to link whichelstowe sewerage and water systems to the barnfield site via underground boring.
Common sense decrees this was vital for tackling the flood risks in that whole area.
The home building is not reliant on the district centre being built and nothing to do with waitrose-more reliant on the council to find a private partner capable of taking on what has been the biggest shambles in our history--and the costliest. So much so a private company can dictate the terms of any agreement.
As yet we have not seen any plans for leisure facilities etc as the emphasis has been on housing.
Considering also housing is planned for n/e/s and west and little to no jobs for all these residents.
Why do we not have a major manufacturer of solar panels here as we have so many large factories empty.
In my opinion it would have been wiser to build a new motorway junction into the front garden with some quality factories and business space which would prevent the massive congestion in our town.

Could that be because solar panels are only viable via massive government subsidies?

itsamess3 wrote:

RichardR1 wrote:
It was part of a larger project including housing, 'aWAITROSE is set to sign a multi-million pound deal to deliver the planned Wichel-stowe District Centre and kick-start the next phase of home-building'. (First paragragh of original article)

As you well know, but once again you are simply trying to start another I said he said moment. Well forget it stalker.

Unfortunately your capability to understand that Waitrose are only interested in purchasing the land to build their store and deliver the district centre--much in the same way local residents have called for the promised leisure and play areas promised before the next phase of building took place.
Unlike you i am a born and bred swindonian and as such remember the birth of the idea to develop the front garden which came after the compulsory purchase of land for a school behind w/bassett rd--the land was then turned into housing--further land then purchased (compulsory) which was farmland right the way up to the motorway and finally the front garden.
Recently a massive project which is nearing completion to link whichelstowe sewerage and water systems to the barnfield site via underground boring.
Common sense decrees this was vital for tackling the flood risks in that whole area.
The home building is not reliant on the district centre being built and nothing to do with waitrose-more reliant on the council to find a private partner capable of taking on what has been the biggest shambles in our history--and the costliest. So much so a private company can dictate the terms of any agreement.
As yet we have not seen any plans for leisure facilities etc as the emphasis has been on housing.
Considering also housing is planned for n/e/s and west and little to no jobs for all these residents.
Why do we not have a major manufacturer of solar panels here as we have so many large factories empty.
In my opinion it would have been wiser to build a new motorway junction into the front garden with some quality factories and business space which would prevent the massive congestion in our town.

What massive congestion? Swindon is a normal town with normal traffic congestion for its size.

P.P
Subsidies inspire greed and despite all the claims panels have improved greatly and can be produced quite cheaply. As the main suppliers of nuclear have pulled out of new contracts we can expect the chinese to be the big bidders.

Perhaps all new builds should include a mixture of the latest technologies.

itsamess3 wrote:
P.P
Subsidies inspire greed and despite all the claims panels have improved greatly and can be produced quite cheaply. As the main suppliers of nuclear have pulled out of new contracts we can expect the chinese to be the big bidders.

Perhaps all new builds should include a mixture of the latest technologies.

If economically viable, without subsidies then yes.

If economically viable, without subsidies then yes.”
Agreed

Oh my god, we agreed on something! Oh, I feel dirty, I need to go and have a shower!