Do we really need 22,000 new homes in Swindon? (From Swindon Advertiser)

22,000 new homes over 13 years isn't a huge amount (1692 per year for a town with a population of 200,000) but the problem for Swindon is that the increase in housing and population over the last 20 years has not been matched, at all, by the increase in leisure, recreation and other social amenities.

The town cannot continue expanding in population and housing without attention to:

a) what employment opportunities there are.

b) what people are going to actually do in their free time for recreation, leisure and entertainment.

The council, and national government, also need to be far more honest and transparent about WHY these homes are needed and WHY the population is increasing at pace. The answer to both questions is one and the same: uncontrolled immigration.

And we already know that it's going to get much worse as we move into 2014.

Since 2008 there has been a dramatic decline in house-building in Swindon. The figures are as follows:

1st April 2008– 30 March 2009 = 970 new houses built.

1st April 2009– 30 March 2010= 880

1st April 2010– 30 March 2011= 730

1st April 20011– 30 March 2012=820

The latest figures (published in November 2012) =450.

There are only 13 years left for the Local Plan to run with no sign that the economy is improving.

The target for 22,000 extra houses to be built in that time is not only unachievable but undesirable.

The mass house-building companied always lobby for more. No change this time, I see.

There is certainly no need to allocate Kingsdown for development in the current plan.

Quote "Coun Rod Bluh, the council leader, said: “The evidence is before you. Swindon, even in the recession, was building more houses than most other places. These houses, when they’re built, aren’t empty and developers don’t build houses that they can’t sell."

The houses may not be empty, but look at the churn rate for some of them.

Its all well and good constantly building houses, but the infrastructure and jobs must be there to support the longer term and that does not exist and is not properly planned and funded.

Tim Newroman wrote:
22,000 new homes over 13 years isn't a huge amount (1692 per year for a town with a population of 200,000) but the problem for Swindon is that the increase in housing and population over the last 20 years has not been matched, at all, by the increase in leisure, recreation and other social amenities.

The town cannot continue expanding in population and housing without attention to:

a) what employment opportunities there are.

b) what people are going to actually do in their free time for recreation, leisure and entertainment.

The council, and national government, also need to be far more honest and transparent about WHY these homes are needed and WHY the population is increasing at pace. The answer to both questions is one and the same: uncontrolled immigration.

And we already know that it's going to get much worse as we move into 2014.

Agree with the above. The fact that the stats for the birth rates of foreign women is high means the problem is escalating. Many don't bring skills with them and end up doing warehouse or manual jobs undercutting the British workforce and driving standards and pay down. Very worrying times indeed.

We don't need houses but places like Oxford probably do. There are a lot of people who live in Swindon but work in Oxford (when someone tells you they work for BMW/MINI don't assume it's in Stratton it might well be Cowley).

This is reflected in the quality of the bus service between Swindon and Oxford. Which is probably better than the service that some of Swindon's suburbs get to the town centre.

Davey Gravey wrote:

Tim Newroman wrote:
22,000 new homes over 13 years isn't a huge amount (1692 per year for a town with a population of 200,000) but the problem for Swindon is that the increase in housing and population over the last 20 years has not been matched, at all, by the increase in leisure, recreation and other social amenities.

The town cannot continue expanding in population and housing without attention to:

a) what employment opportunities there are.

b) what people are going to actually do in their free time for recreation, leisure and entertainment.

The council, and national government, also need to be far more honest and transparent about WHY these homes are needed and WHY the population is increasing at pace. The answer to both questions is one and the same: uncontrolled immigration.

And we already know that it's going to get much worse as we move into 2014.

Agree with the above. The fact that the stats for the birth rates of foreign women is high means the problem is escalating. Many don't bring skills with them and end up doing warehouse or manual jobs undercutting the British workforce and driving standards and pay down. Very worrying times indeed.

Absolutely. Worse still, a lot of these new homes will be 'affordable housing', intended for those immigrants who arrive and claim to be self-employed and who, therefore, can then access free housing and benefits immediately. If they arrive with children, they will instantly improve their standard of living without even having to work.

All of this then creates even more of a drain on public services and the council's resources - despite the newcomers contributing nothing to the local economy (other than ensuring Aldi stay afloat).

Agree with above, the immigration problem will only escalate and building all these houses for social housing seem to just be encouraging more and more to come here. we should stop building social housing, only house those who actually need it and when they no longer need it, that support should stop as it does in all other areas of the welfare system, you receive it when you need it and dont when you dont.

We are so pathetically soft in the country we are going be the architects of our own dowfall if we dont toughen up and tackle the welfare and immigration issues and will simply go bankrupt.

house on the hill wrote:
Agree with above, the immigration problem will only escalate and building all these houses for social housing seem to just be encouraging more and more to come here. we should stop building social housing, only house those who actually need it and when they no longer need it, that support should stop as it does in all other areas of the welfare system, you receive it when you need it and dont when you dont.

We are so pathetically soft in the country we are going be the architects of our own dowfall if we dont toughen up and tackle the welfare and immigration issues and will simply go bankrupt.

@house on the hill: unfortunately, it's already too late. Nothing is going to change in the next couple of years and then Labour will again take office in 2015.

If anything, it's only going to get much worse for the remainder of this decade.

The UK hasn't been able to afford the current set-up for a good few decades. In fact, it is the case that for almost half the period that the current welfare state system has been in place, the country has had to borrow billions upon billions to 'afford' it. As the welfare budget increases, as it is doing, and tax receipts decrease (as they have done for many years) it can only get worse. We can barely afford the interest repayments as it is currently.

All of you seem to be forgetting one important fact with your discussion on immigration, employment etc - the fact is that there is currently a massive shortage of housing\accomodation in this country - satisfying this latent demand is the reason why many if not most of these new houses are needed.

For example it is estimated that currently 1.6 million 20 to 40 year old are living with their parents due to the lack of reasonably priced accomodation in this country.

These people are not immigrants and most have jobs - thereby negating the arguments given about immigration and employment.

The fact is these houses are needed to address the imbalance between supply and demand that currently exists in the housing market - and in addressing this issue, hopefully the ridiculously high cost of accomodation in this country will also reduce, which is something else that needs attention!

Can't argue with the points raised. Cannot see any government of ours saying enough is enough though. Even if no more immigrants came here,those that are here already are breeding at huge rates and cramming inside small houses. It's a bloody mess.

These racist sentiments do not help. Stop blaming immigrants for the housing situation in Swindon. Swindon has been seen as a target for growth for years because successive Councils and politicians have supported growth. It seems that they think that the only way that Swindon will improve is by making it bigger. They don't seem to have heard about quality over quantity that has led to the success of smaller settlements.

Nothing racist about it. The floods of immigrants and their offspring are causing many problems. The standard of living is declining here, services are at breaking point. Housing is part of it but that is hardly scratching the surface. I am not racist at all, think controlled immigration is a good thing but it's gone crazy now.

JeanSaunders wrote...

These racist sentiments do not help.

I'm sorry, Jean, but that level of 'debate' doesn't wash anymore. People don't buy it.

If you are aware of a driver of the UK's requirement for housing over the last 10 years that is greater than immigration, please do inform us.

Nobody builds houses unless they are able to sell them. You may not like developers, but they are business people, and their business is making money. You do not do that by building houses that nobody buys.

Regardless of whether you find it 'racist', or not, the current requirements for, and pressure on, house building is being driven by uncontrolled immigration.

Which, if it calms your sensibilities a little, is, by far, a majority of white people. No racism here, just an acceptance of the reality.

JeanSaunders wrote:
These racist sentiments do not help. Stop blaming immigrants for the housing situation in Swindon. Swindon has been seen as a target for growth for years because successive Councils and politicians have supported growth. It seems that they think that the only way that Swindon will improve is by making it bigger. They don't seem to have heard about quality over quantity that has led to the success of smaller settlements.

Immigration/immigran
ts are a convenient scapegoat.....like Jews during the 1930's Germany. There always been racists and bigots....unfortunat
ely a lot on here.
We need to build more houses because we need them but also because we want people to have a stake in Society, to be Law abiding and active members of the community.
Yes we need more houses, there is a crisis right now but we also need better housing....
UK houses are the smallest in Europe, some will say the UK is a small country, yet in the Netherlands, houses are 30% bigger.

Tim Newroman wrote:

JeanSaunders wrote...

These racist sentiments do not help.

I'm sorry, Jean, but that level of 'debate' doesn't wash anymore. People don't buy it.

If you are aware of a driver of the UK's requirement for housing over the last 10 years that is greater than immigration, please do inform us.

Nobody builds houses unless they are able to sell them. You may not like developers, but they are business people, and their business is making money. You do not do that by building houses that nobody buys.

Regardless of whether you find it 'racist', or not, the current requirements for, and pressure on, house building is being driven by uncontrolled immigration.

Which, if it calms your sensibilities a little, is, by far, a majority of white people. No racism here, just an acceptance of the reality.

Let's assume that you are correct.....and that housing is driven by immigrants, shouldn't we see the majority of these new houses in North Swindon, Wichelstowe taken by immigrants?!?

Immigration is not as big as factor around Swindon vs some specific examples groups like Migration Watch seem to endlessly point out.

What's driving this is Swindon's lower prices vs (Oxford, Newbury and Reading) and Gov't benefits policies negating the economic realities of splitting up families.

Buyers in Swindon then need to balance off the lower cost house with the hassle of getting to work up or down the M4 or paying £7750 annual pass to the GWR if they work in London because of outdated transport links. The Oxford road should have been made into duel carriageway years ago like the A419.

As someone said 22,000 houses is not a great number given the time period. However simply building new secondary roads, and laying on a new bus route will not solve the infrastructure problems getting in and out of town and accessing the M4.

The improvements to the A419 will be for not in another 10 years with the same past traffic queues reappearing again. Swindon needs a proper northern ring road connecting the M4 somewhere between J16 and 17 for traffic going down to Bristol rather than squeeze everything down J16 for starters.

It's the same old story in this country. For example between. Germany is not perfect, but they did manage to build an additional 750km of new Autobahn between 2005 - 2010. What new stretches can anyone remember being built in the UK lately apart from some new A road connecting MK with the M1?

Well David Cameron has said the Indians (without hinderance) can come here for education. Strange really as they have many excellent uni's at a fraction of the cost here. It should tell him something that customs and immigration refuse entry--or catch so called students working who are claiming to attend colleges/uni's that know nothing about them. Seems to me he has just opened the flood gates.

A.Baron-Cohen wrote:

Tim Newroman wrote:

JeanSaunders wrote...

These racist sentiments do not help.

I'm sorry, Jean, but that level of 'debate' doesn't wash anymore. People don't buy it.

If you are aware of a driver of the UK's requirement for housing over the last 10 years that is greater than immigration, please do inform us.

Nobody builds houses unless they are able to sell them. You may not like developers, but they are business people, and their business is making money. You do not do that by building houses that nobody buys.

Regardless of whether you find it 'racist', or not, the current requirements for, and pressure on, house building is being driven by uncontrolled immigration.

Which, if it calms your sensibilities a little, is, by far, a majority of white people. No racism here, just an acceptance of the reality.

Let's assume that you are correct.....and that housing is driven by immigrants, shouldn't we see the majority of these new houses in North Swindon, Wichelstowe taken by immigrants?!?

Well said Baron. Just look around the new build areas and find how many are owned by immigrants? very few!!

Social housing on each new estate is very small (I think on Kingsdown Gate it is just 11) and I doubt that half of those would go to immigrants.

Developers will only build houses if they sell. People can only buy houses if they are in employment. Work it out!! People are working out off the area but can't afford houses there, so there buying in Swindon.

@ Davidsyrett
Well said Baron. Just look around the new build areas and find how many are owned by immigrants? very few!!

Social housing on each new estate is very small (I think on Kingsdown Gate it is just 11) and I doubt that half of those would go to immigrants.

Developers will only build houses if they sell. People can only buy houses if they are in employment. Work it out!! People are working out off the area but can't afford houses there, so there buying in Swindon.”

Perhaps you should open your eyes more--its not all about social housing.
Take a look at the Paddington Drive housing build and you will find most languages spoken there-likewise the buy to lets-many occupied by those on benefits (foreign landlords and occupants) and of course the tiny bedsits and multiple occupations with the great majority on the housing list-again mostly owned by asian businessmen-think again!

itsamess3 wrote:
@ Davidsyrett
Well said Baron. Just look around the new build areas and find how many are owned by immigrants? very few!!

Social housing on each new estate is very small (I think on Kingsdown Gate it is just 11) and I doubt that half of those would go to immigrants.

Developers will only build houses if they sell. People can only buy houses if they are in employment. Work it out!! People are working out off the area but can't afford houses there, so there buying in Swindon.”

Perhaps you should open your eyes more--its not all about social housing.
Take a look at the Paddington Drive housing build and you will find most languages spoken there-likewise the buy to lets-many occupied by those on benefits (foreign landlords and occupants) and of course the tiny bedsits and multiple occupations with the great majority on the housing list-again mostly owned by asian businessmen-think again!

There's a conception on here that Swindon is building houses for immigrants.

There are obviously some who will get social housing but before you make assumptions, the vast majority of houses will go to working people who have the right to be in this country, some of which will not be the same nationality but live & work in this country , these are not immigrants!! They have the right to buy houses just like yourself, just because your not happy with these laws is neither here nor there.

Yes, there will be buy-to-lets, (and I wasn't aware that it was against the law for Asian business men to buy houses and rent them out!) and maybe they will be rented out to people on benefit but, if they're claiming benefit there entitled to a roof over there head, where ever it maybe.

I go back to my original point, houses will only be built if they can be sold.

A.Baron-Cohen wrote:

Tim Newroman wrote:

JeanSaunders wrote... These racist sentiments do not help.

I'm sorry, Jean, but that level of 'debate' doesn't wash anymore. People don't buy it. If you are aware of a driver of the UK's requirement for housing over the last 10 years that is greater than immigration, please do inform us. Nobody builds houses unless they are able to sell them. You may not like developers, but they are business people, and their business is making money. You do not do that by building houses that nobody buys. Regardless of whether you find it 'racist', or not, the current requirements for, and pressure on, house building is being driven by uncontrolled immigration. Which, if it calms your sensibilities a little, is, by far, a majority of white people. No racism here, just an acceptance of the reality.

Let's assume that you are correct.....and that housing is driven by immigrants, shouldn't we see the majority of these new houses in North Swindon, Wichelstowe taken by immigrants?!?

A.Baron-Cohen - "Let's assume that you are correct.....and that housing is driven by immigrants, shouldn't we see the majority of these new houses in North Swindon, Wichelstowe taken by immigrants?!?”

North Swindon is largely inhabited by people who used to live in the centre Swindon.

Central Swindon is now inhabited with a large number of immigrants.

Where you used to have a couple or two professional sharers in a two-bed house you now have a family of four. Where you used to have families in three and four-bed homes, you now have three or four adult sharers.

You only have to look at the pressure on town centre services and issues with parking (cars in the road, on verges and on front lawns) to see that the houses there are not being used as designed.

StillPav wrote:

A.Baron-Cohen wrote:

Tim Newroman wrote:

JeanSaunders wrote... These racist sentiments do not help.

I'm sorry, Jean, but that level of 'debate' doesn't wash anymore. People don't buy it. If you are aware of a driver of the UK's requirement for housing over the last 10 years that is greater than immigration, please do inform us. Nobody builds houses unless they are able to sell them. You may not like developers, but they are business people, and their business is making money. You do not do that by building houses that nobody buys. Regardless of whether you find it 'racist', or not, the current requirements for, and pressure on, house building is being driven by uncontrolled immigration. Which, if it calms your sensibilities a little, is, by far, a majority of white people. No racism here, just an acceptance of the reality.

Let's assume that you are correct.....and that housing is driven by immigrants, shouldn't we see the majority of these new houses in North Swindon, Wichelstowe taken by immigrants?!?

A.Baron-Cohen - "Let's assume that you are correct.....and that housing is driven by immigrants, shouldn't we see the majority of these new houses in North Swindon, Wichelstowe taken by immigrants?!?”

North Swindon is largely inhabited by people who used to live in the centre Swindon.

Central Swindon is now inhabited with a large number of immigrants.

Where you used to have a couple or two professional sharers in a two-bed house you now have a family of four. Where you used to have families in three and four-bed homes, you now have three or four adult sharers.

You only have to look at the pressure on town centre services and issues with parking (cars in the road, on verges and on front lawns) to see that the houses there are not being used as designed.

Most of the houses you talk about were built in the early 1900's, and when first built were often full of Mum & Dad, Granny, and 6 kids, what a ludicrous point to make, "Not being used as designed"

Are you saying that the white people were all pushed out of central Swindon and have to now live in Nth Swindon, or as is probably the real point , they moved there because they wanted too! they wanted new houses, not old ones that needed regular repairs and upkeep.

@ Davidsyrett
I go back to my original point, houses will only be built if they can be sold.”

Of course they will-buy to let-- to house benefit seekers as its more profitable and in part paid for by child benefits paid by the govt for kids not born or living here.

@ Davidsyrett
I go back to my original point, houses will only be built if they can be sold.”

Of course they will-buy to let-- to house benefit seekers as its more profitable and in part paid for by child benefits paid by the govt for kids not born or living here.

This whole conversation amazes me. The UK has been a place of immigration since Roman times. All someone has to do is go to the site in North Swindon containing a Roman Village which was dug up about 10 years old for proof.

The only thing that has changed is the immigrants come from further a field, but the same principle applies. Does anyone remember the term Anglo-Saxon?

In 2006 there was a show called 'So you think you're English' where they took DNA from some famous people and the results where anything but.

“An independent study carried out revealed that nearly 70 per cent of people still aspire to own their own home, with one in three ranking it more important than getting married, having children or building a career."

I was born near Blunsdon and would like to move back but I cannot afford the prices in the area, maybe this new development will allow me to get on the housing ladder. Its all very well for all of you sitting in your nice homes complaining about more houses being built when all we young want to do is buy a house near where we work. Swindon needs more young professional people, not a load of oldies.

The powers-that-be want the houses in Swindon because it's already a dump. From what I hear, the Wichelstowe houses are hard to shift because of the number of social tenants who moved there from Pinehurst. Door-to-door robberies, for goodness' sake.

adsinibiza wrote:
All of you seem to be forgetting one important fact with your discussion on immigration, employment etc - the fact is that there is currently a massive shortage of housing\accomodation in this country - satisfying this latent demand is the reason why many if not most of these new houses are needed.

For example it is estimated that currently 1.6 million 20 to 40 year old are living with their parents due to the lack of reasonably priced accomodation in this country.

These people are not immigrants and most have jobs - thereby negating the arguments given about immigration and employment.

The fact is these houses are needed to address the imbalance between supply and demand that currently exists in the housing market - and in addressing this issue, hopefully the ridiculously high cost of accomodation in this country will also reduce, which is something else that needs attention!

An you are ignoring the fact that my two 20 year olds will still not be able to get affordable housing in Swindon because unless they get some poor lass up the duff, they have got as much chance of getting a Council house as Eric Pickles has of being welcome anywhere around Swinley Drive in the near future.

peatmoor pirate wrote:

adsinibiza wrote:
All of you seem to be forgetting one important fact with your discussion on immigration, employment etc - the fact is that there is currently a massive shortage of housing\accomodation in this country - satisfying this latent demand is the reason why many if not most of these new houses are needed.

For example it is estimated that currently 1.6 million 20 to 40 year old are living with their parents due to the lack of reasonably priced accomodation in this country.

These people are not immigrants and most have jobs - thereby negating the arguments given about immigration and employment.

The fact is these houses are needed to address the imbalance between supply and demand that currently exists in the housing market - and in addressing this issue, hopefully the ridiculously high cost of accomodation in this country will also reduce, which is something else that needs attention!

An you are ignoring the fact that my two 20 year olds will still not be able to get affordable housing in Swindon because unless they get some poor lass up the duff, they have got as much chance of getting a Council house as Eric Pickles has of being welcome anywhere around Swinley Drive in the near future.

Your 20 year olds are precisely the type of people I had in mind when writing my post.

You are perfectly correct when you say that as things stand they will not be able to afford housing in Swindon and will probably be living with you for many years - the reason for which being that demand has far outstripped supply thereby pushing up the cost of housing - a simple economic fact of life.

This cost increase is demonstrated (as is the need for a reduction in the cost of housing) by the fact that the cost of an average house rose from three times avergae salary to five times betrween the years 2000 and 2010.

Prices need to come down and that will only be acheived by increasing the supply of new homes i.e. building more

Blackmalkin wrote:
The powers-that-be want the houses in Swindon because it's already a dump. From what I hear, the Wichelstowe houses are hard to shift because of the number of social tenants who moved there from Pinehurst. Door-to-door robberies, for goodness' sake.

Taylor Wimpey, the developer behind East Wichel, says sales are steadily increasing.

A total of 565 homes have been built – and 563 are occupied of which 235 are affordable homes, being a mix of rented and shared ownership, with 328 privately owned. There are about 40 homes being constructed on site currently.

so 2 unsold !!!!

StillPav wrote:

A.Baron-Cohen wrote:

Tim Newroman wrote:

JeanSaunders wrote... These racist sentiments do not help.

I'm sorry, Jean, but that level of 'debate' doesn't wash anymore. People don't buy it. If you are aware of a driver of the UK's requirement for housing over the last 10 years that is greater than immigration, please do inform us. Nobody builds houses unless they are able to sell them. You may not like developers, but they are business people, and their business is making money. You do not do that by building houses that nobody buys. Regardless of whether you find it 'racist', or not, the current requirements for, and pressure on, house building is being driven by uncontrolled immigration. Which, if it calms your sensibilities a little, is, by far, a majority of white people. No racism here, just an acceptance of the reality.

Let's assume that you are correct.....and that housing is driven by immigrants, shouldn't we see the majority of these new houses in North Swindon, Wichelstowe taken by immigrants?!?

A.Baron-Cohen - "Let's assume that you are correct.....and that housing is driven by immigrants, shouldn't we see the majority of these new houses in North Swindon, Wichelstowe taken by immigrants?!?”

North Swindon is largely inhabited by people who used to live in the centre Swindon.

Central Swindon is now inhabited with a large number of immigrants.

Where you used to have a couple or two professional sharers in a two-bed house you now have a family of four. Where you used to have families in three and four-bed homes, you now have three or four adult sharers.

You only have to look at the pressure on town centre services and issues with parking (cars in the road, on verges and on front lawns) to see that the houses there are not being used as designed.

This is a well known and well documented phenomenon. It is not specific to Swindon but a common occurrence in all urban areas all over the world.
Poor people/new arrivals live where they can afford....Urban decay (ghettos, gangs) and White Flight go hand in hand, unless we build more houses, more affordable housing we will end up with a situation like in America where people racially self segregate with all the problems (Social, economic, Justice) that entails.

JeanSaunders wrote...
Immigration/immigran

ts are a convenient scapegoat.....like Jews during the 1930's Germany.

Dear oh dear. Godwin's Law appears, no surprises there then.

You cannot seriously be suggesting that the pressure on housing stock and the increase in the UK population has nothing to do with the uncontrolled immigration of the past 15 years?

Even government departments admit there is an issue.

It is categorically NOT racist to discuss the problems, or to accept their existence.

Either you are a staunch (and rather blind) supporter of everything New Labour or there's an even more insidious agenda behind your attempt to smear those who wish to debate the pressing issues as racists and neo-Nazis.

dukeofM4 wrote:
This whole conversation amazes me. The UK has been a place of immigration since Roman times. All someone has to do is go to the site in North Swindon containing a Roman Village which was dug up about 10 years old for proof.

The only thing that has changed is the immigrants come from further a field, but the same principle applies. Does anyone remember the term Anglo-Saxon?

In 2006 there was a show called 'So you think you're English' where they took DNA from some famous people and the results where anything but.

And this mindset also amazes me.

Do you really believe there is no difference between a man born in England who can trace his family ancestory back to a roman who arrived in Britain 2000 years ago and a man who steps off a plane from Somalia at Heathrow tomorrow morning? Seriously?

To use your logic, I could fly to Ethiopia tomorrow and walk down the street telling everyone, 'It's OK, I'm Ethiopian originally, I'm just like you... other than that I'm white, unable to speak your language and no precisely nothing about your customs and social cues'.

How do you suppose that might work out for me?

Tim Newroman wrote:

JeanSaunders wrote...
Immigration/immigran


ts are a convenient scapegoat.....like Jews during the 1930's Germany.

Dear oh dear. Godwin's Law appears, no surprises there then.

You cannot seriously be suggesting that the pressure on housing stock and the increase in the UK population has nothing to do with the uncontrolled immigration of the past 15 years?

Even government departments admit there is an issue.

It is categorically NOT racist to discuss the problems, or to accept their existence.

Either you are a staunch (and rather blind) supporter of everything New Labour or there's an even more insidious agenda behind your attempt to smear those who wish to debate the pressing issues as racists and neo-Nazis.

There is a difference between acknowledging a problem and making this problem the central piece of your existence.
I really would love to debate pressing issues, but I am afraid, immigration is way down the list, I have like most other people more real issues to deal with like job security, cost of living and providing for myself and my family, whilst a small bunch of Etonians are running this country like a board game....and with very little success if I may say.

@A.Baron-Cohen: and what do you think affects job security, cost of living and providing for your family?

I'll give you a clue, it starts with 'I' and ends with 'N'.

A large part of the reason the country is being run with no success is due to the same thing.

"Because it is one thing to have free immigration to jobs. It is another thing to have free immigration to welfare. And you cannot have both. If you have a welfare state, if you have a state in which every resident is promises a certain minimal level of income, or a minimum level of subsistence, regardless of whether he works or not, produces it or not. Then it really is an impossible thing."

Milton Friedman - Nobel Memorial Prize Winner in Economic Sciences

Rather interestingly, your earlier post on this thread admits that your'e well aware of the pressures on housing caused by immigration.

Its wrong to say that the fact most of the new estate (Wichel and north swindon) would be occupied by immigrants, if immigration was indeed causing the housing requirements.
Many people in those areas will have done one of two things:
Moved out of their town centre house, the ones now traditionally filled with immigrants
Or moved out of their rented properties, which are also being taken by immigrants.
The levels of immigrants vs unemployed brits have been well documented over the years, and while i accept there are a minority who are just lazy and will never work, leaving a good arguments for reasonable immigration, the majority do want to work, but are seeing their jobs and being undercut by immigrants who come here as single people, share a house with 3 or 4 others, claim child benefits for children at home, thus affording the lower wages.
Brits aren't so lucky as they will have families who live with them, unable to take in lodgers to share bills, and not entitled to the same level of benefits.
So the social argument is also null and void. Some working people who are not in receipt of benefits, simply cannot afford to buy houses. Are you saying they should be thrown out on the streets because they have no theoretical need for social housing??
The argument is quite simple, the more people you let into your country, the more houses you will need! You cant stop the building unless you reduce the population!

@Town Of The Future: exactly.

Net migration is still running at c.250,000 people per year into the UK.

Those people, when they arrive at least, are very often single people. They all have to be housed somewhere.

It's the equivalent of an entire town 20% bigger than Swindon simply turning up and demanding a house each and every year.

To claim that it's not putting immense pressure on the housing market is patently incorrect.

Of course nobody is suggesting that, for example, Wichelstowe will end up inhabited by immigrants. That's not how it works. One thing is for sure, though, you can bet that plenty of non-immigrants for places such as Slough and Reading will end up moving to Swindon.

Tim Newroman wrote:
@Town Of The Future: exactly.

Net migration is still running at c.250,000 people per year into the UK.

Those people, when they arrive at least, are very often single people. They all have to be housed somewhere.

It's the equivalent of an entire town 20% bigger than Swindon simply turning up and demanding a house each and every year.

To claim that it's not putting immense pressure on the housing market is patently incorrect.

Of course nobody is suggesting that, for example, Wichelstowe will end up inhabited by immigrants. That's not how it works. One thing is for sure, though, you can bet that plenty of non-immigrants for places such as Slough and Reading will end up moving to Swindon.

"Net migration - the balance between the number of people who come to live in the UK for the long-term and the number who are leaving - fell from 242,000 to 183,000 in the year to March"
Inward migration fell by 42,000 to 536,000 - non-EU nationals 296,000, against EU migrants 240,000.
It is worth noting the number of UK nationals returning from overseas and also the fact that immigrants, include a great number of Foreign Students.

David Cameron's latest escapade will probably make matters worse

A.Baron-Cohen wrote:

Tim Newroman wrote:
@Town Of The Future: exactly.

Net migration is still running at c.250,000 people per year into the UK.

Those people, when they arrive at least, are very often single people. They all have to be housed somewhere.

It's the equivalent of an entire town 20% bigger than Swindon simply turning up and demanding a house each and every year.

To claim that it's not putting immense pressure on the housing market is patently incorrect.

Of course nobody is suggesting that, for example, Wichelstowe will end up inhabited by immigrants. That's not how it works. One thing is for sure, though, you can bet that plenty of non-immigrants for places such as Slough and Reading will end up moving to Swindon.

"Net migration - the balance between the number of people who come to live in the UK for the long-term and the number who are leaving - fell from 242,000 to 183,000 in the year to March"
Inward migration fell by 42,000 to 536,000 - non-EU nationals 296,000, against EU migrants 240,000.
It is worth noting the number of UK nationals returning from overseas and also the fact that immigrants, include a great number of Foreign Students.

Thanks for that, so we have well over half a million immigrants arriving, even now, each year.

Of course, that can't *possibly* be putting any strain at all on housing provision in the UK.

Definitely not.

And just how "British" is our royal family then? As much as you may want to help others sometimes the reality of the cost prevents you from doing so. We have to stop being the world's welfare state, we cant afford to just let more and more people come here and expect to live off the taxpayers whose numbers are reducing. We are having enough of a problem paying for the ageing population of our own and it doesnt matter if they want to work when they get here, if there are no jobs we still end up suppoting them. The money is running out and if it was your business and you were going out of business you wouldnt take on more staff just because they didnt have a job.

the reality is we cant at the moment afford to support all those who would like to come here, eventually it will just collapse and they will end up going somewhere else when the money runs out having never put anything in. Are we areally that stupid and irresponsible to think we can continue on this path?

Are we areally that stupid and irresponsible to think we can continue on this path?

David Cameron appears to be.
On the single issue that I had faith in the Conservative Party.

Disappointing

Empty Car Park wrote:

Are we areally that stupid and irresponsible to think we can continue on this path?

David Cameron appears to be.
On the single issue that I had faith in the Conservative Party.

Disappointing

What would you like David Cameron to do with regards to immigration policy and the welfare budget?

What is it you think he's actually doing?

Or, as per usual, are you just having a pop for the sake of it and adding absolutely nothing to the discussion?

Do any if you actually realise how few 'immigrants' claim housing benefit compared to 'UK' nationals? Most are willing to work and do work. The cost of new homes is beyond all - even in the housing boom of the late 2006/7 period prices rose despite an increase in building. Covering the countryside around Swindon with homes will not decrease prices and will not stop the need for social housing for those who will never support themselves - however councils don't build council houses yet Swindon's opposition groups support more building without a plan.

Eastern Badger wrote:
Do any if you actually realise how few 'immigrants' claim housing benefit compared to 'UK' nationals? Most are willing to work and do work. The cost of new homes is beyond all - even in the housing boom of the late 2006/7 period prices rose despite an increase in building. Covering the countryside around Swindon with homes will not decrease prices and will not stop the need for social housing for those who will never support themselves - however councils don't build council houses yet Swindon's opposition groups support more building without a plan.

and to illustrate your point, a jobless British mother of 11 getting a six-bed home built on the council (at a cost of 400K!) and owns a HORSE, I guess we won't hear anything from the official anti immigrant anti gay anti EU anti etc....Tim Newroman on the subject....

A.Baron-Cohen wrote:

Eastern Badger wrote:
Do any if you actually realise how few 'immigrants' claim housing benefit compared to 'UK' nationals? Most are willing to work and do work. The cost of new homes is beyond all - even in the housing boom of the late 2006/7 period prices rose despite an increase in building. Covering the countryside around Swindon with homes will not decrease prices and will not stop the need for social housing for those who will never support themselves - however councils don't build council houses yet Swindon's opposition groups support more building without a plan.

and to illustrate your point, a jobless British mother of 11 getting a six-bed home built on the council (at a cost of 400K!) and owns a HORSE, I guess we won't hear anything from the official anti immigrant anti gay anti EU anti etc....Tim Newroman on the subject....

What a daft comment. Of course it's ridiculous that we have arrived at a situation where that particular lady's arrangements are not only possible but fully supported and encouraged.

Do not smear me by implying that I am anti-gay, that is a libellous comment.

Equally, while I can understand your touchiness about the subject, I am not anti-immigrants. It is the system I am against, not those who, rather inevitably, take advantage of it.

With regards to the EU, I am actually pro most of the aspects of the arrangement. It is really only the Human Rights Act and the uncontrolled immigration that I find objectionable - but, unfortunately, we have to accept those downsides unless we pull out.

So, your own prejudices have shone through in your little rant above. Sadly, for you, you were wrong on every count. As usual.