Obesity costing the NHS millions

Swindon Advertiser: Children enjoy their MEND healthy eating session Children enjoy their MEND healthy eating session

TREATING obesity, and the catalogue of conditions resulting from weight problems, is costing the NHS £31m each year in Swindon.

The figure was released in a report which will come before members of the council’s health overview and scrutiny committee tonight.

An estimated 27 per cent of adults in Swindon are deemed obese, compared with 24.2 per cent nationally. This is due to factors including ethnicity, limited education and the average age of the population.

The report says a higher proportion of people aged 55 to 64 – of residents aged 16 to 74 with no or low qualifications or of black ethnic origin than the rest of England – meant Swindon was more likely to have a larger share of obese people.

Obesity in children is also above average with 10.2 per cent in reception class compared with 9.3 per cent nationwide. The figure nearly doubles in year six with 19.5 per cent of all youngsters found to be obese as opposed to 18.9 per cent in the UK.

The council was unable to give more specific figures on how much obesity cost in the past.

Being overweight or obese does not only affect people’s ability to make the most of their lives but increases the risk of illnesses such as stroke, heart disease, type 2 diabetes and dementia.

This constant rise not only costs millions to the NHS but to social services and puts even more pressure on an already struggling local economy.

To reverse this trend, Swindon Council, along with voluntary groups, Swindon Clinical Commissioning Group and the Great Western Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust has launched the Swindon Healthy Weight strategy. The action plan targets adults and children and includes interventions aimed at prevention and treatment of obesity.

Earlier this month, the authority started the initiative with its Healthy Weight Awareness Week campaign.

Experts reached out to people struggling to maintain a healthy weight and promoted its health programmes such as Dietbusters, and MEND, a scheme aimed at obese or overweight children aged five to 16.

Cherry Jones, acting director of public health, said: “Tackling obesity is important to improve the health and wellbeing of local people as well as improve the local economy, through less time lost due to ill health and the costs of ill health to the NHS and social services.

“Achieving a healthy weight depends on factors in every part of life: the environment we live in, our workplace, school, social life, the people around us and the choices we make in what we eat and what we do.

“The Healthy Weight strategy aims to reduce obesity in Swindon. It looks in the widest context as to what can be done to support people to be more active and eat well.”

Emma Sperring, who heads the council’s MEND programme, said progress was being made in educating children from a young age about healthy eating and promoting fun exercise.

The ten-week scheme, which initially targeted five to 13-year-olds, recently opened a new module for teenagers up to 16.

The MEND groups teach overweight children and their parents simple nutritional facts and follows each session with 45 minutes of exercise.

Emma said: “The aim is to try to reduce obesity in children so they don’t become overweight in adulthood, which means they are less likely to be a burden on the NHS later on.

“Often we see that both their parents are overweight and we try to change that behaviour in both parents and children, which is quite complex.

“We find that half the families manage to maintain their weight after the programme and do not put on any more which is very positive.”

Comments (35)

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8:16am Wed 29 Jan 14

house on the hill says...

This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!).

On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered.

Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.
This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!). On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered. Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions. house on the hill

9:14am Wed 29 Jan 14

nelle2705 says...

Obesity mostly is a lifestyle choice, BUT not every obese person is eating junk food and not getting exercise. There are also medical conditions that contribute to obesity so before spouting your mouth off THINK before you do and get ALL the facts..
There are hundreds of reasons as to why certain people are overweight and you are one contributory factor to this, its called bullying !! Until you have lived a day in those people shoes YOU have no room talk and yes i am talking to you HOUSE ON THE HILL.
I eat very healthy and exercise regularly and yet still am unable to loose weight !! My portion control is as it should be according to dietitian and there are many people out there like me but yet we are still discriminated against and bullied by the likes of YOU for being obese when you do not know all the facts. YOU DISGUST ME !!!
Obesity mostly is a lifestyle choice, BUT not every obese person is eating junk food and not getting exercise. There are also medical conditions that contribute to obesity so before spouting your mouth off THINK before you do and get ALL the facts.. There are hundreds of reasons as to why certain people are overweight and you are one contributory factor to this, its called bullying !! Until you have lived a day in those people shoes YOU have no room talk and yes i am talking to you HOUSE ON THE HILL. I eat very healthy and exercise regularly and yet still am unable to loose weight !! My portion control is as it should be according to dietitian and there are many people out there like me but yet we are still discriminated against and bullied by the likes of YOU for being obese when you do not know all the facts. YOU DISGUST ME !!! nelle2705

9:26am Wed 29 Jan 14

nobody says...

Most of the obese live in denial, they fail(do not want) to see the truth of their over eating and lack of exercise. Only the other day at a supermarket two obese adults with a obese child had a trolley full of crap sugary/fatty "food".
None of the above applies to people with relevant medical conditions.
Most of the obese live in denial, they fail(do not want) to see the truth of their over eating and lack of exercise. Only the other day at a supermarket two obese adults with a obese child had a trolley full of crap sugary/fatty "food". None of the above applies to people with relevant medical conditions. nobody

9:48am Wed 29 Jan 14

Davethered says...

nelle2705 wrote:
Obesity mostly is a lifestyle choice, BUT not every obese person is eating junk food and not getting exercise. There are also medical conditions that contribute to obesity so before spouting your mouth off THINK before you do and get ALL the facts..
There are hundreds of reasons as to why certain people are overweight and you are one contributory factor to this, its called bullying !! Until you have lived a day in those people shoes YOU have no room talk and yes i am talking to you HOUSE ON THE HILL.
I eat very healthy and exercise regularly and yet still am unable to loose weight !! My portion control is as it should be according to dietitian and there are many people out there like me but yet we are still discriminated against and bullied by the likes of YOU for being obese when you do not know all the facts. YOU DISGUST ME !!!
Well said , too many people are so quick to judge others.
[quote][p][bold]nelle2705[/bold] wrote: Obesity mostly is a lifestyle choice, BUT not every obese person is eating junk food and not getting exercise. There are also medical conditions that contribute to obesity so before spouting your mouth off THINK before you do and get ALL the facts.. There are hundreds of reasons as to why certain people are overweight and you are one contributory factor to this, its called bullying !! Until you have lived a day in those people shoes YOU have no room talk and yes i am talking to you HOUSE ON THE HILL. I eat very healthy and exercise regularly and yet still am unable to loose weight !! My portion control is as it should be according to dietitian and there are many people out there like me but yet we are still discriminated against and bullied by the likes of YOU for being obese when you do not know all the facts. YOU DISGUST ME !!![/p][/quote]Well said , too many people are so quick to judge others. Davethered

10:06am Wed 29 Jan 14

A.Baron-Cohen says...

VAT on food would be the usual answer
VAT on food would be the usual answer A.Baron-Cohen

10:08am Wed 29 Jan 14

Davey Gravey says...

Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers. Davey Gravey

10:09am Wed 29 Jan 14

AndySN3 says...

house on the hill wrote:
This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!).

On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered.

Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.
I wondered when somebody would spout this sh1t on here!!

Are we going to start discriminating against drinkers, smokers, people with sports injuries??? The list could go on.

Yes for some people it is self inflicted, but so what. As a country, we cannot start picking off various sections of society and commenting on their circumstances without knowing the full facts.

What is fact is that we have a free at source healthcare system, and it is becoming increasingly stretched, so as well as better education for all walks of life, perhaps we should be looking at where all the needless money is spent internally.

You are entitled to your views, but this particular one is a little heartless!!
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!). On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered. Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.[/p][/quote]I wondered when somebody would spout this sh1t on here!! Are we going to start discriminating against drinkers, smokers, people with sports injuries??? The list could go on. Yes for some people it is self inflicted, but so what. As a country, we cannot start picking off various sections of society and commenting on their circumstances without knowing the full facts. What is fact is that we have a free at source healthcare system, and it is becoming increasingly stretched, so as well as better education for all walks of life, perhaps we should be looking at where all the needless money is spent internally. You are entitled to your views, but this particular one is a little heartless!! AndySN3

10:13am Wed 29 Jan 14

benzss says...

house on the hill wrote:
This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!).

On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered.

Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.
By instituting the NHS and welfare state, the people - however you want to interpret that - have implicitly agreed to provide a safety net and healthcare for people regardless of circumstance. We cannot then use this as a pretext to restrict people's freedom of choice if their circumstances happen to cost more money. Of course, this article isn't implying that, but it's not an uncommon view.

In any case, I'd be interested to see the numbers in terms of obese people who die earlier vs non-obese people who live longer.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!). On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered. Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.[/p][/quote]By instituting the NHS and welfare state, the people - however you want to interpret that - have implicitly agreed to provide a safety net and healthcare for people regardless of circumstance. We cannot then use this as a pretext to restrict people's freedom of choice if their circumstances happen to cost more money. Of course, this article isn't implying that, but it's not an uncommon view. In any case, I'd be interested to see the numbers in terms of obese people who die earlier vs non-obese people who live longer. benzss

10:15am Wed 29 Jan 14

Phantom Poster says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
DUST, that's what they should eat.

They'd not only lose weight but it'd save money for their fags and booze.

DUST for breakfast, lunch and dinner!
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]DUST, that's what they should eat. They'd not only lose weight but it'd save money for their fags and booze. DUST for breakfast, lunch and dinner! Phantom Poster

10:19am Wed 29 Jan 14

benzss says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol? benzss

11:06am Wed 29 Jan 14

Davey Gravey says...

Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
DUST, that's what they should eat.

They'd not only lose weight but it'd save money for their fags and booze.

DUST for breakfast, lunch and dinner!
Hahaha. Anybody,no, dust
[quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]DUST, that's what they should eat. They'd not only lose weight but it'd save money for their fags and booze. DUST for breakfast, lunch and dinner![/p][/quote]Hahaha. Anybody,no, dust Davey Gravey

11:38am Wed 29 Jan 14

Davey Gravey says...

benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?
Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity
[quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?[/p][/quote]Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity Davey Gravey

11:41am Wed 29 Jan 14

benzss says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?
Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity
Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay?

Sounds fair.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?[/p][/quote]Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity[/p][/quote]Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay? Sounds fair. benzss

11:51am Wed 29 Jan 14

Davey Gravey says...

benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?
Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity
Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay?

Sounds fair.
They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.
[quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?[/p][/quote]Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity[/p][/quote]Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay? Sounds fair.[/p][/quote]They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle. Davey Gravey

11:55am Wed 29 Jan 14

benzss says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?
Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity
Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay?

Sounds fair.
They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.
Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?[/p][/quote]Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity[/p][/quote]Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay? Sounds fair.[/p][/quote]They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.[/p][/quote]Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate? benzss

12:41pm Wed 29 Jan 14

A.Baron-Cohen says...

benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?
Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity
Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay?

Sounds fair.
They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.
Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?
Maybe if healthcare was private, the people making these choices (eat, drink smoke too much) would pay the relevant insurance contributions towards their healthcare plan, instead of shifting the cost of their decisions onto the community......
[quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?[/p][/quote]Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity[/p][/quote]Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay? Sounds fair.[/p][/quote]They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.[/p][/quote]Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?[/p][/quote]Maybe if healthcare was private, the people making these choices (eat, drink smoke too much) would pay the relevant insurance contributions towards their healthcare plan, instead of shifting the cost of their decisions onto the community...... A.Baron-Cohen

12:53pm Wed 29 Jan 14

benzss says...

A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?
Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity
Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay?

Sounds fair.
They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.
Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?
Maybe if healthcare was private, the people making these choices (eat, drink smoke too much) would pay the relevant insurance contributions towards their healthcare plan, instead of shifting the cost of their decisions onto the community......
Perhaps it is an externality related to the free rider problem. Although that would not explain the US.
[quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?[/p][/quote]Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity[/p][/quote]Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay? Sounds fair.[/p][/quote]They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.[/p][/quote]Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?[/p][/quote]Maybe if healthcare was private, the people making these choices (eat, drink smoke too much) would pay the relevant insurance contributions towards their healthcare plan, instead of shifting the cost of their decisions onto the community......[/p][/quote]Perhaps it is an externality related to the free rider problem. Although that would not explain the US. benzss

1:27pm Wed 29 Jan 14

house on the hill says...

benzss wrote:
house on the hill wrote:
This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!).

On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered.

Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.
By instituting the NHS and welfare state, the people - however you want to interpret that - have implicitly agreed to provide a safety net and healthcare for people regardless of circumstance. We cannot then use this as a pretext to restrict people's freedom of choice if their circumstances happen to cost more money. Of course, this article isn't implying that, but it's not an uncommon view.

In any case, I'd be interested to see the numbers in terms of obese people who die earlier vs non-obese people who live longer.
I dont disagree with most of that, but somewhere along the line the reality of funding such a service comes into play. Taxation isn't a bottomless pit (despite what Labour might tell you!) and there will come a point where we simply cant afford the NHS any more if we continue to abuse it.

Whatever the reason for the NHS it still doesn't get away from why the irresponsible feel the responsible should actually fund their choices. I am sorry but I dont work hard and pay my taxes and look after myself to pay for some some fat lazy so and so to have a gastric band fitted because they cant be bothered to get off their backside!
[quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!). On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered. Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.[/p][/quote]By instituting the NHS and welfare state, the people - however you want to interpret that - have implicitly agreed to provide a safety net and healthcare for people regardless of circumstance. We cannot then use this as a pretext to restrict people's freedom of choice if their circumstances happen to cost more money. Of course, this article isn't implying that, but it's not an uncommon view. In any case, I'd be interested to see the numbers in terms of obese people who die earlier vs non-obese people who live longer.[/p][/quote]I dont disagree with most of that, but somewhere along the line the reality of funding such a service comes into play. Taxation isn't a bottomless pit (despite what Labour might tell you!) and there will come a point where we simply cant afford the NHS any more if we continue to abuse it. Whatever the reason for the NHS it still doesn't get away from why the irresponsible feel the responsible should actually fund their choices. I am sorry but I dont work hard and pay my taxes and look after myself to pay for some some fat lazy so and so to have a gastric band fitted because they cant be bothered to get off their backside! house on the hill

1:33pm Wed 29 Jan 14

house on the hill says...

nelle2705 wrote:
Obesity mostly is a lifestyle choice, BUT not every obese person is eating junk food and not getting exercise. There are also medical conditions that contribute to obesity so before spouting your mouth off THINK before you do and get ALL the facts..
There are hundreds of reasons as to why certain people are overweight and you are one contributory factor to this, its called bullying !! Until you have lived a day in those people shoes YOU have no room talk and yes i am talking to you HOUSE ON THE HILL.
I eat very healthy and exercise regularly and yet still am unable to loose weight !! My portion control is as it should be according to dietitian and there are many people out there like me but yet we are still discriminated against and bullied by the likes of YOU for being obese when you do not know all the facts. YOU DISGUST ME !!!
As you disgust me for making excuses and blaming others for something you have total control over, your weight! Don't forget it isn't in your dietician's or any dietitian's interest to get you slim as then they have no clients and no income!!!! Unless you have an overriding medical reason you can be slim, maybe you need to change your dietitician!
[quote][p][bold]nelle2705[/bold] wrote: Obesity mostly is a lifestyle choice, BUT not every obese person is eating junk food and not getting exercise. There are also medical conditions that contribute to obesity so before spouting your mouth off THINK before you do and get ALL the facts.. There are hundreds of reasons as to why certain people are overweight and you are one contributory factor to this, its called bullying !! Until you have lived a day in those people shoes YOU have no room talk and yes i am talking to you HOUSE ON THE HILL. I eat very healthy and exercise regularly and yet still am unable to loose weight !! My portion control is as it should be according to dietitian and there are many people out there like me but yet we are still discriminated against and bullied by the likes of YOU for being obese when you do not know all the facts. YOU DISGUST ME !!![/p][/quote]As you disgust me for making excuses and blaming others for something you have total control over, your weight! Don't forget it isn't in your dietician's or any dietitian's interest to get you slim as then they have no clients and no income!!!! Unless you have an overriding medical reason you can be slim, maybe you need to change your dietitician! house on the hill

1:34pm Wed 29 Jan 14

benzss says...

house on the hill wrote:
benzss wrote:
house on the hill wrote:
This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!).

On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered.

Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.
By instituting the NHS and welfare state, the people - however you want to interpret that - have implicitly agreed to provide a safety net and healthcare for people regardless of circumstance. We cannot then use this as a pretext to restrict people's freedom of choice if their circumstances happen to cost more money. Of course, this article isn't implying that, but it's not an uncommon view.

In any case, I'd be interested to see the numbers in terms of obese people who die earlier vs non-obese people who live longer.
I dont disagree with most of that, but somewhere along the line the reality of funding such a service comes into play. Taxation isn't a bottomless pit (despite what Labour might tell you!) and there will come a point where we simply cant afford the NHS any more if we continue to abuse it.

Whatever the reason for the NHS it still doesn't get away from why the irresponsible feel the responsible should actually fund their choices. I am sorry but I dont work hard and pay my taxes and look after myself to pay for some some fat lazy so and so to have a gastric band fitted because they cant be bothered to get off their backside!
I submit that is a problem with the universal healthcare system in this country, and not necessarily with obese people. The NHS IS a bit of a dinosaur. It may have made sense in the 1950s, but in the 2010s it's much too cumbersome and expensive. Perhaps it's time to look abroad for inspiration.

In any case, this is just a 'deserving' and 'undeserving' thing. You may not like paying for another person's self-inflicted injury (having a gastric band fitted), but how is that morally different to patching up someone who cracked their ribs playing rugby? Or broke an arm falling off a horse?
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!). On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered. Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.[/p][/quote]By instituting the NHS and welfare state, the people - however you want to interpret that - have implicitly agreed to provide a safety net and healthcare for people regardless of circumstance. We cannot then use this as a pretext to restrict people's freedom of choice if their circumstances happen to cost more money. Of course, this article isn't implying that, but it's not an uncommon view. In any case, I'd be interested to see the numbers in terms of obese people who die earlier vs non-obese people who live longer.[/p][/quote]I dont disagree with most of that, but somewhere along the line the reality of funding such a service comes into play. Taxation isn't a bottomless pit (despite what Labour might tell you!) and there will come a point where we simply cant afford the NHS any more if we continue to abuse it. Whatever the reason for the NHS it still doesn't get away from why the irresponsible feel the responsible should actually fund their choices. I am sorry but I dont work hard and pay my taxes and look after myself to pay for some some fat lazy so and so to have a gastric band fitted because they cant be bothered to get off their backside![/p][/quote]I submit that is a problem with the universal healthcare system in this country, and not necessarily with obese people. The NHS IS a bit of a dinosaur. It may have made sense in the 1950s, but in the 2010s it's much too cumbersome and expensive. Perhaps it's time to look abroad for inspiration. In any case, this is just a 'deserving' and 'undeserving' thing. You may not like paying for another person's self-inflicted injury (having a gastric band fitted), but how is that morally different to patching up someone who cracked their ribs playing rugby? Or broke an arm falling off a horse? benzss

2:00pm Wed 29 Jan 14

Hmmmf says...

house on the hill wrote:
Whatever the reason for the NHS it still doesn't get away from why the irresponsible feel the responsible should actually fund their choices. I am sorry but I dont work hard and pay my taxes and look after myself to pay for some some fat lazy so and so to have a gastric band fitted because they cant be bothered to get off their backside!

But you're happy to pay for those whose choice is to 'get off their backsides' and who account for the 14% of all hospital treated injuries caused by playing sport, and the 8% of hospital admissions due to sports-related injuries (not including the undocumented hundreds of thousands of sports-related injuries treated at GP-level which aren't recorded)?
Leaving aside your nonsense in implying that the obese aren't contributing to the NHS and that you are somehow obliged to pay for any medical treatment they might require, you need to try to understand the 'insurance' part of the National Insurance contributions you pay. It's the same as car insurance, you know; good for you on not needing to make a claim, yet, but do keep paying the premiums just in case.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: Whatever the reason for the NHS it still doesn't get away from why the irresponsible feel the responsible should actually fund their choices. I am sorry but I dont work hard and pay my taxes and look after myself to pay for some some fat lazy so and so to have a gastric band fitted because they cant be bothered to get off their backside![/quote] But you're happy to pay for those whose choice is to 'get off their backsides' and who account for the 14% of all hospital treated injuries caused by playing sport, and the 8% of hospital admissions due to sports-related injuries (not including the undocumented hundreds of thousands of sports-related injuries treated at GP-level which aren't recorded)? Leaving aside your nonsense in implying that the obese aren't contributing to the NHS and that you are somehow obliged to pay for any medical treatment they might require, you need to try to understand the 'insurance' part of the National Insurance contributions you pay. It's the same as car insurance, you know; good for you on not needing to make a claim, yet, but do keep paying the premiums just in case. Hmmmf

2:03pm Wed 29 Jan 14

house on the hill says...

AndySN3 wrote:
house on the hill wrote:
This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!).

On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered.

Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.
I wondered when somebody would spout this sh1t on here!!

Are we going to start discriminating against drinkers, smokers, people with sports injuries??? The list could go on.

Yes for some people it is self inflicted, but so what. As a country, we cannot start picking off various sections of society and commenting on their circumstances without knowing the full facts.

What is fact is that we have a free at source healthcare system, and it is becoming increasingly stretched, so as well as better education for all walks of life, perhaps we should be looking at where all the needless money is spent internally.

You are entitled to your views, but this particular one is a little heartless!!
Not heartless, just realistic, taxation is not a bottomless pit and at the present rate we just wont be able to afford the NHS unless people start being more responsible. Where did I say we should stop treating them? my 2 main points were cost and affordability and why would anyone choose to be fat which 95% of obese people have chosen to be? But please don't let that stop you having a go.
[quote][p][bold]AndySN3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: This is an argument that will run and run (unlike those overweight!). On the one side will be those who blindly bleat on about freedom of choice and rights as always ignoring the responsibilities and consequences of their actions that go with them expecting others to always pick up the bills for their mistakes regardless. On the other those who do take responsibility for their life and health and are fed up with being forced to pay for their lazy selfish overweight neighbours who cant be bothered. Obesity is a lifestyle choice for 95% of those without a medical condition and they have no excuse and no one else to blame but themselves. Quite why anyone would want to be like that is beyond me. Most don't live much past retirement age if they get there at all and that's without the 20 to 30 years living on endless medication for a variety of debilitating illnesses. Life is short enough already, why would you choose to shorten it and reduce your quality of life too, not to mention the costs to everyone else of your selfish decisions.[/p][/quote]I wondered when somebody would spout this sh1t on here!! Are we going to start discriminating against drinkers, smokers, people with sports injuries??? The list could go on. Yes for some people it is self inflicted, but so what. As a country, we cannot start picking off various sections of society and commenting on their circumstances without knowing the full facts. What is fact is that we have a free at source healthcare system, and it is becoming increasingly stretched, so as well as better education for all walks of life, perhaps we should be looking at where all the needless money is spent internally. You are entitled to your views, but this particular one is a little heartless!![/p][/quote]Not heartless, just realistic, taxation is not a bottomless pit and at the present rate we just wont be able to afford the NHS unless people start being more responsible. Where did I say we should stop treating them? my 2 main points were cost and affordability and why would anyone choose to be fat which 95% of obese people have chosen to be? But please don't let that stop you having a go. house on the hill

2:23pm Wed 29 Jan 14

A.Baron-Cohen says...

benzss wrote:
A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?
Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity
Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay?

Sounds fair.
They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.
Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?
Maybe if healthcare was private, the people making these choices (eat, drink smoke too much) would pay the relevant insurance contributions towards their healthcare plan, instead of shifting the cost of their decisions onto the community......
Perhaps it is an externality related to the free rider problem. Although that would not explain the US.
In the end, we will end up with an insurance based system, those taking risks will pay more and those being sensible will pay less, this is a lot like car insurance.
Those making the right choices and being sensible would be rewarded and see their health plan contributions fall, whilst those taking risks would have to pay a lot more for their healthcare.
[quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?[/p][/quote]Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity[/p][/quote]Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay? Sounds fair.[/p][/quote]They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.[/p][/quote]Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?[/p][/quote]Maybe if healthcare was private, the people making these choices (eat, drink smoke too much) would pay the relevant insurance contributions towards their healthcare plan, instead of shifting the cost of their decisions onto the community......[/p][/quote]Perhaps it is an externality related to the free rider problem. Although that would not explain the US.[/p][/quote]In the end, we will end up with an insurance based system, those taking risks will pay more and those being sensible will pay less, this is a lot like car insurance. Those making the right choices and being sensible would be rewarded and see their health plan contributions fall, whilst those taking risks would have to pay a lot more for their healthcare. A.Baron-Cohen

2:26pm Wed 29 Jan 14

benzss says...

A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
benzss wrote:
A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?
Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity
Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay?

Sounds fair.
They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.
Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?
Maybe if healthcare was private, the people making these choices (eat, drink smoke too much) would pay the relevant insurance contributions towards their healthcare plan, instead of shifting the cost of their decisions onto the community......
Perhaps it is an externality related to the free rider problem. Although that would not explain the US.
In the end, we will end up with an insurance based system, those taking risks will pay more and those being sensible will pay less, this is a lot like car insurance.
Those making the right choices and being sensible would be rewarded and see their health plan contributions fall, whilst those taking risks would have to pay a lot more for their healthcare.
I know the concept, but like I say it doesn't explain the US, where healthcare is much more expensive and people are much more overweight...
[quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?[/p][/quote]Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity[/p][/quote]Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay? Sounds fair.[/p][/quote]They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.[/p][/quote]Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?[/p][/quote]Maybe if healthcare was private, the people making these choices (eat, drink smoke too much) would pay the relevant insurance contributions towards their healthcare plan, instead of shifting the cost of their decisions onto the community......[/p][/quote]Perhaps it is an externality related to the free rider problem. Although that would not explain the US.[/p][/quote]In the end, we will end up with an insurance based system, those taking risks will pay more and those being sensible will pay less, this is a lot like car insurance. Those making the right choices and being sensible would be rewarded and see their health plan contributions fall, whilst those taking risks would have to pay a lot more for their healthcare.[/p][/quote]I know the concept, but like I say it doesn't explain the US, where healthcare is much more expensive and people are much more overweight... benzss

2:32pm Wed 29 Jan 14

Phantom Poster says...

If people are willing to eat themselves into obesity there's not much that can be done. I mean, they literally choose to make themselves ugly and deeply unattractive, so telling them to cut back on the pies clearly isn't going to work.
If people are willing to eat themselves into obesity there's not much that can be done. I mean, they literally choose to make themselves ugly and deeply unattractive, so telling them to cut back on the pies clearly isn't going to work. Phantom Poster

2:58pm Wed 29 Jan 14

PaulD says...

Watch Sugar V Fat tonight on Channel 4 (or perhaps BBC 2) - it might open your eyes to the food indutry and obesity
Watch Sugar V Fat tonight on Channel 4 (or perhaps BBC 2) - it might open your eyes to the food indutry and obesity PaulD

3:20pm Wed 29 Jan 14

A.Baron-Cohen says...

benzss wrote:
A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
benzss wrote:
A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.
Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?
Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity
Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay?

Sounds fair.
They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.
Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?
Maybe if healthcare was private, the people making these choices (eat, drink smoke too much) would pay the relevant insurance contributions towards their healthcare plan, instead of shifting the cost of their decisions onto the community......
Perhaps it is an externality related to the free rider problem. Although that would not explain the US.
In the end, we will end up with an insurance based system, those taking risks will pay more and those being sensible will pay less, this is a lot like car insurance.
Those making the right choices and being sensible would be rewarded and see their health plan contributions fall, whilst those taking risks would have to pay a lot more for their healthcare.
I know the concept, but like I say it doesn't explain the US, where healthcare is much more expensive and people are much more overweight...
The cost of food is much lower in the USA than in the UK but there is the socio-economical aspect of the problem where the lowest paid are buying the cheapest food which is not the most healthy.....increasi
ng VAT, sales tax on targeted food items would do a lot of good.
[quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Make the fatties pay for their treatment. Same should go for smokers and heavy drinkers.[/p][/quote]Would they also get a rebate on national insurance, a portion of income tax and have the duty knocked off tobacco and alcohol?[/p][/quote]Nope. If they are stupid enough to eat, smoke or drink themselves into illness then the last thing they should get is a discount. Responsible people pay all that but don't stretch the nhs by their own actions of gluttony or stupidity[/p][/quote]Sooo, even though they won't be receiving services for payment, they'll still have to pay? Sounds fair.[/p][/quote]They can always opt in by living a healthy lifestyle.[/p][/quote]Do you not think it mildly disgusting to dictate to people the lifestyle you think is appropriate?[/p][/quote]Maybe if healthcare was private, the people making these choices (eat, drink smoke too much) would pay the relevant insurance contributions towards their healthcare plan, instead of shifting the cost of their decisions onto the community......[/p][/quote]Perhaps it is an externality related to the free rider problem. Although that would not explain the US.[/p][/quote]In the end, we will end up with an insurance based system, those taking risks will pay more and those being sensible will pay less, this is a lot like car insurance. Those making the right choices and being sensible would be rewarded and see their health plan contributions fall, whilst those taking risks would have to pay a lot more for their healthcare.[/p][/quote]I know the concept, but like I say it doesn't explain the US, where healthcare is much more expensive and people are much more overweight...[/p][/quote]The cost of food is much lower in the USA than in the UK but there is the socio-economical aspect of the problem where the lowest paid are buying the cheapest food which is not the most healthy.....increasi ng VAT, sales tax on targeted food items would do a lot of good. A.Baron-Cohen

3:43pm Wed 29 Jan 14

adsinibiza says...

As soon as I saw the headline for this story I thought here we go!

The bottom line is that for the vast majority of people being overweight (and unfit) is a lifestyle choice.

For me the moment of truth came a few years back on Christmas day. At a friends house I was asked to clear the drive of snow and ice - it half killed me. Later that day my friends three year old son asked me and I quote "Uncle ***** why are you so fat?'

That was enough for me to give up smoking and start exercising very regularly. Four years later I'm much fitter, quite a bit lighter, much better off and I eat and drink pretty much what I like.

As a direct result I'm also far less likely to have a heart attack or end up with either cancer or diabetes and therefore less likely to be a burden on the NHS or the welfare state.

These are not matters of opinion but facts - simple and straightforward facts - and sorry but the same goes for the vast majority of people.

There is no excuse for most individuals - instead of gastric band operations GP's should hand out a pair of trainers and the address of a local gym and tell obese people not to come back until they have sorted out their own weight and fitness problems.
As soon as I saw the headline for this story I thought here we go! The bottom line is that for the vast majority of people being overweight (and unfit) is a lifestyle choice. For me the moment of truth came a few years back on Christmas day. At a friends house I was asked to clear the drive of snow and ice - it half killed me. Later that day my friends three year old son asked me and I quote "Uncle ***** why are you so fat?' That was enough for me to give up smoking and start exercising very regularly. Four years later I'm much fitter, quite a bit lighter, much better off and I eat and drink pretty much what I like. As a direct result I'm also far less likely to have a heart attack or end up with either cancer or diabetes and therefore less likely to be a burden on the NHS or the welfare state. These are not matters of opinion but facts - simple and straightforward facts - and sorry but the same goes for the vast majority of people. There is no excuse for most individuals - instead of gastric band operations GP's should hand out a pair of trainers and the address of a local gym and tell obese people not to come back until they have sorted out their own weight and fitness problems. adsinibiza

4:21pm Wed 29 Jan 14

Hmmmf says...

adsinibiza wrote:
As a direct result I'm also far less likely to have a heart attack or end up with either cancer or diabetes and therefore less likely to be a burden on the NHS or the welfare state.

When you take your car to a garage for repairs, it is not a burden for the mechanics. It is their livelihood and you are paying them for their work.
The NHS performs a similar service, which you also pay for whether you use it or not. The only people who use the word 'burden' in relation to treatment provided by universal healthcare are hospital managers and the idiots who believe their propaganda.
Your risk factors for cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease may, at best, have been halved, but that still leaves the other half.
[quote][p][bold]adsinibiza[/bold] wrote: As a direct result I'm also far less likely to have a heart attack or end up with either cancer or diabetes and therefore less likely to be a burden on the NHS or the welfare state.[/quote] When you take your car to a garage for repairs, it is not a burden for the mechanics. It is their livelihood and you are paying them for their work. The NHS performs a similar service, which you also pay for whether you use it or not. The only people who use the word 'burden' in relation to treatment provided by universal healthcare are hospital managers and the idiots who believe their propaganda. Your risk factors for cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease may, at best, have been halved, but that still leaves the other half. Hmmmf

4:33pm Wed 29 Jan 14

adsinibiza says...

Hmmmf wrote:
adsinibiza wrote:
As a direct result I'm also far less likely to have a heart attack or end up with either cancer or diabetes and therefore less likely to be a burden on the NHS or the welfare state.

When you take your car to a garage for repairs, it is not a burden for the mechanics. It is their livelihood and you are paying them for their work.
The NHS performs a similar service, which you also pay for whether you use it or not. The only people who use the word 'burden' in relation to treatment provided by universal healthcare are hospital managers and the idiots who believe their propaganda.
Your risk factors for cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease may, at best, have been halved, but that still leaves the other half.
Their is a huge difference between the two. One is a business run foor profit that repairs cars at the owners cost. The NHS is a publicly owned and funded service paid for by others through general taxation. There is therefore no valid argument to your statement
[quote][p][bold]Hmmmf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]adsinibiza[/bold] wrote: As a direct result I'm also far less likely to have a heart attack or end up with either cancer or diabetes and therefore less likely to be a burden on the NHS or the welfare state.[/quote] When you take your car to a garage for repairs, it is not a burden for the mechanics. It is their livelihood and you are paying them for their work. The NHS performs a similar service, which you also pay for whether you use it or not. The only people who use the word 'burden' in relation to treatment provided by universal healthcare are hospital managers and the idiots who believe their propaganda. Your risk factors for cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease may, at best, have been halved, but that still leaves the other half.[/p][/quote]Their is a huge difference between the two. One is a business run foor profit that repairs cars at the owners cost. The NHS is a publicly owned and funded service paid for by others through general taxation. There is therefore no valid argument to your statement adsinibiza

4:38pm Wed 29 Jan 14

adsinibiza says...

Hmmmf wrote:
adsinibiza wrote:
As a direct result I'm also far less likely to have a heart attack or end up with either cancer or diabetes and therefore less likely to be a burden on the NHS or the welfare state.

When you take your car to a garage for repairs, it is not a burden for the mechanics. It is their livelihood and you are paying them for their work.
The NHS performs a similar service, which you also pay for whether you use it or not. The only people who use the word 'burden' in relation to treatment provided by universal healthcare are hospital managers and the idiots who believe their propaganda.
Your risk factors for cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease may, at best, have been halved, but that still leaves the other half.
And it is a burden because in many cases if not most, problems caused by obesity such as diabetes are totally avoidable if an individual takes responsibility for their own health and keeps themselves fit and healthy which includes taking decisions about their own life that doesn't lead to obesity
[quote][p][bold]Hmmmf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]adsinibiza[/bold] wrote: As a direct result I'm also far less likely to have a heart attack or end up with either cancer or diabetes and therefore less likely to be a burden on the NHS or the welfare state.[/quote] When you take your car to a garage for repairs, it is not a burden for the mechanics. It is their livelihood and you are paying them for their work. The NHS performs a similar service, which you also pay for whether you use it or not. The only people who use the word 'burden' in relation to treatment provided by universal healthcare are hospital managers and the idiots who believe their propaganda. Your risk factors for cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease may, at best, have been halved, but that still leaves the other half.[/p][/quote]And it is a burden because in many cases if not most, problems caused by obesity such as diabetes are totally avoidable if an individual takes responsibility for their own health and keeps themselves fit and healthy which includes taking decisions about their own life that doesn't lead to obesity adsinibiza

4:40pm Wed 29 Jan 14

Geeward says...

This needs to be cleared up sooner rather than later. Every legal product that has an adverse affect on the environment or our own health is heavily taxed. Petrol, tobacco and alcohol, sorry to say it but it's high time the fatties carry the burden as well. Being fat, for most, is nothing to do with genetic make up, nor is it something that just happens. It's caused by over indulging, not watching what you eat and lack of exercise. Being fat is a CHOICE, no one forces the food down your throat and running or walking is free and with this I see little reason why these people are getting away with draining the NHS all the while the smokers and drinkers are paying for the privilige to indulge in their particular vices through heavy taxation. They should either tax fatty food (which would be unfair on the healthy people that allow the extra calories for a treat) or refuse treatment to the obese on anything related to their self inflicted condition. We're quick enough to write off the homeless alcoholic who did it to himself and now it's time we started treating the glutenous slobs the same way. You made your bed, now lie in it.
This needs to be cleared up sooner rather than later. Every legal product that has an adverse affect on the environment or our own health is heavily taxed. Petrol, tobacco and alcohol, sorry to say it but it's high time the fatties carry the burden as well. Being fat, for most, is nothing to do with genetic make up, nor is it something that just happens. It's caused by over indulging, not watching what you eat and lack of exercise. Being fat is a CHOICE, no one forces the food down your throat and running or walking is free and with this I see little reason why these people are getting away with draining the NHS all the while the smokers and drinkers are paying for the privilige to indulge in their particular vices through heavy taxation. They should either tax fatty food (which would be unfair on the healthy people that allow the extra calories for a treat) or refuse treatment to the obese on anything related to their self inflicted condition. We're quick enough to write off the homeless alcoholic who did it to himself and now it's time we started treating the glutenous slobs the same way. You made your bed, now lie in it. Geeward

4:43pm Wed 29 Jan 14

benzss says...

Geeward wrote:
This needs to be cleared up sooner rather than later. Every legal product that has an adverse affect on the environment or our own health is heavily taxed. Petrol, tobacco and alcohol, sorry to say it but it's high time the fatties carry the burden as well. Being fat, for most, is nothing to do with genetic make up, nor is it something that just happens. It's caused by over indulging, not watching what you eat and lack of exercise. Being fat is a CHOICE, no one forces the food down your throat and running or walking is free and with this I see little reason why these people are getting away with draining the NHS all the while the smokers and drinkers are paying for the privilige to indulge in their particular vices through heavy taxation. They should either tax fatty food (which would be unfair on the healthy people that allow the extra calories for a treat) or refuse treatment to the obese on anything related to their self inflicted condition. We're quick enough to write off the homeless alcoholic who did it to himself and now it's time we started treating the glutenous slobs the same way. You made your bed, now lie in it.
And what about other self-inflicted conditions? Or is it just the fatties you're after?
[quote][p][bold]Geeward[/bold] wrote: This needs to be cleared up sooner rather than later. Every legal product that has an adverse affect on the environment or our own health is heavily taxed. Petrol, tobacco and alcohol, sorry to say it but it's high time the fatties carry the burden as well. Being fat, for most, is nothing to do with genetic make up, nor is it something that just happens. It's caused by over indulging, not watching what you eat and lack of exercise. Being fat is a CHOICE, no one forces the food down your throat and running or walking is free and with this I see little reason why these people are getting away with draining the NHS all the while the smokers and drinkers are paying for the privilige to indulge in their particular vices through heavy taxation. They should either tax fatty food (which would be unfair on the healthy people that allow the extra calories for a treat) or refuse treatment to the obese on anything related to their self inflicted condition. We're quick enough to write off the homeless alcoholic who did it to himself and now it's time we started treating the glutenous slobs the same way. You made your bed, now lie in it.[/p][/quote]And what about other self-inflicted conditions? Or is it just the fatties you're after? benzss

5:41pm Wed 29 Jan 14

Geeward says...

Of course i'm not only targeting the fatties but smokers and drinkers are at least softening the blow when paying duty on the products. 82% of the price of a pack of ciggarettes consists of duty and VAT. The NHS estimates that smokers cost around £6 billion in treatment to smoking related illness, smokers brought in £9.5 billion in just duty last year, not including the VAT,you can do the math. That's £3.5 billion profit before VAT is even accounted for, it's not the smokers fault the government has decided not to allocate all of that revenue to the NHS. What are the fatties contributing? Nothing more than standard tax.
What's needed is a full scale review including drugs, alcohol, binge eating and smoking should be undertaken and a deep investigation into the costs of treating the illnesses related to these addictions should be investigated. If a habit falls short of paying for itself then it should be taxed higher or the consumer should have to pay a certain amount towards their treatment.
Of course i'm not only targeting the fatties but smokers and drinkers are at least softening the blow when paying duty on the products. 82% of the price of a pack of ciggarettes consists of duty and VAT. The NHS estimates that smokers cost around £6 billion in treatment to smoking related illness, smokers brought in £9.5 billion in just duty last year, not including the VAT,you can do the math. That's £3.5 billion profit before VAT is even accounted for, it's not the smokers fault the government has decided not to allocate all of that revenue to the NHS. What are the fatties contributing? Nothing more than standard tax. What's needed is a full scale review including drugs, alcohol, binge eating and smoking should be undertaken and a deep investigation into the costs of treating the illnesses related to these addictions should be investigated. If a habit falls short of paying for itself then it should be taxed higher or the consumer should have to pay a certain amount towards their treatment. Geeward

3:00pm Thu 30 Jan 14

NorthernWarrior says...

Of course everyone should aspire to a healthy lifestyle but it ain't always that simple.

For starters, "obesity" tends to be bandied around as a generic term for anyone overweight, not those who (like most of us) could probably do to shed a couple of stone and I'm not ashamed to put me in that category.

Lifestyle plays a part. Years ago, many people worked in manually intensive or physically demanding work environments, which burned off mum's stodgy dinners and sponge puddings. These days most jobs are sedentary in nature. Shift work can play havoc with balancing diet and exercise, particularly working nights.

Why is it that some people can put away all sorts of junk food and never seem to gain an ounce, yet others (me!) only need to look at a chocolate biscuit and put on 2lb.

Shops have a role to play, why is it the healthy options (e.g. tinned fruit in juice not syrup) are more expensive? Some of the healthy choices are downright awful - I would much rather eat a normal natural yoghourt than a so called diet alternative which is stuffed with gelatine and artificial sweetener.

As regards medicare, if I go for a walk from Hackpen to Manton on the Ridgeway and twist my ankle or gash myself on a fence, that is surely a medical need arising out of a personal choice? Not that the Ridgeway is very attractive this time of year in 3 deg C, overcast leaden skies and dodging the trail bikes and 4 x 4's which flaunt the closed season and the police have no interest in catching!
Of course everyone should aspire to a healthy lifestyle but it ain't always that simple. For starters, "obesity" tends to be bandied around as a generic term for anyone overweight, not those who (like most of us) could probably do to shed a couple of stone and I'm not ashamed to put me in that category. Lifestyle plays a part. Years ago, many people worked in manually intensive or physically demanding work environments, which burned off mum's stodgy dinners and sponge puddings. These days most jobs are sedentary in nature. Shift work can play havoc with balancing diet and exercise, particularly working nights. Why is it that some people can put away all sorts of junk food and never seem to gain an ounce, yet others (me!) only need to look at a chocolate biscuit and put on 2lb. Shops have a role to play, why is it the healthy options (e.g. tinned fruit in juice not syrup) are more expensive? Some of the healthy choices are downright awful - I would much rather eat a normal natural yoghourt than a so called diet alternative which is stuffed with gelatine and artificial sweetener. As regards medicare, if I go for a walk from Hackpen to Manton on the Ridgeway and twist my ankle or gash myself on a fence, that is surely a medical need arising out of a personal choice? Not that the Ridgeway is very attractive this time of year in 3 deg C, overcast leaden skies and dodging the trail bikes and 4 x 4's which flaunt the closed season and the police have no interest in catching! NorthernWarrior

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