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Just horrific

8:18am Friday 14th September 2007

comment Comments (46)   Have your say »


BLOOD-STAINED cupboards, dirty bathrooms and neglected patients are just some of the things health watchdog Mary Wilson found on a trip to Great Western Hospital.

The damning report was made public at Swindon's Patient and Public Involvement Forum at Gorse Hill community centre.

Chairwoman Mary Wilson listed the catalogue of claims - which she called "horrific and disturbing" - after visiting Teal ward at the hospital last month.

Mrs Wilson, who has been on the PPI forum for three years, spent the day on the ward observing hospital staff and their interaction with patients.

The health watchdog said her discovery was disturbing evidence that the Swindon hospital is ailing rather than improving.

She said: "I went to the hospital because it was brought to our attention about this particular ward two or three times.

"We heard stories about nurses seeing patients 20 minutes after they had pushed their buttons and one patient even claimed that there was blood all down the bedside table.

"I spoke to some patients who had asked for blankets and four hours later the nurse threw them at them and told them they'd have to put them on the bed themselves."

She claimed that one patient she met endured almost a five-hour wait to go home after being discharged because doctors hadn't prescribed him with the drugs he needed to continue his treatment at home.

She said: "One man was discharged at 1.30pm and had to wait while he was given some medicine to take home - I spoke to him at 6.10pm."

Mrs Wilson also claimed that she witnessed a doctor treat several patients without washing his hands, that bars of soap were left in bathrooms by previous patients instead of the liquid soap dispensers outlined by NHS guidelines.

She said: "There is little privacy for patients who will die in hospital.

"If they want some private times with loved ones they can use the nurses' office but this isn't always available.

"The showers seemed dirty also but they could have been discoloured."

Chris Birdsall, communications manager of Great Western Hospital, said: "We were aware of some of the issues raised before the PPI held their meeting and had resolved the matters to the patients' satisfaction.

"However, we have received a report from the PPI in our Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS) department and will be investigating every point made thoroughly and will report back."

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Grumpy, Swindon says...
11:04am Fri 14 Sep 07

Look at the people doing the cleaning at GWH! Let's just say personal hygiene isn't a natural part of their culture!

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PaulD, says...
11:09am Fri 14 Sep 07

Grumpy wrote:
Look at the people doing the cleaning at GWH! Let's just say personal hygiene isn't a natural part of their culture!
could you expand on this please. I am not familiar with the cleaners at GWH. Could you tell me more of their culture

Report this post »

yeti, swindon says...
11:12am Fri 14 Sep 07

the problem lies with the fact that the cleaning of hospitals has been contracted out.its not in-house anymore

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Big Mac, says...
11:30am Fri 14 Sep 07

The NHS.

'Envy of the world'

Until you actually have to use it.

Report this post »

cfa, newcastle says...
11:42am Fri 14 Sep 07

Give the Chief Exec three months to sort it, if it hasnn't improved sack him/her! These people probably earn £80k pa, the buck stops at the top i'm afraid.

My partner works for the NHS up here as a medical sec and her work load is massive,
moral is low and staff sickness is rife. When staff leave or retire they are not replaced, the work is just passed on to others who are already under massive pressure. Meanwhile some consultants are on the golf course and the managers have gone to a hospital in Orlando to see how they do things.

Some trusts have a three to one ratio of managment to medical.

Unless the NHS returns to it's medical care ethics this will never change. This goverment has chucked billions at it but it's still not working.

It's should be about care of patients. Bring back Matron! I as a taxpayer want doctors & nurses not
non-medical management.

I'm not familiar with with the cleaning regime at GWH but i'm guessing it's a private company like Mitie or Serco.

Report this post »

mum of three, Swindon says...
12:15pm Fri 14 Sep 07

I work on a ward at GWH and i feel that this qualifies me to comment. I have also recently been a patient at GWH. On our ward,we are very concious of hygiene,the importance of patients bathrooms being kept clean and tidy. Yes,it is true that sometimes things can slip,but we have to prioritise our work load,and a patient who is extremely poorly has got to be our main concern. If your parent or loved one was lying in bed dying,you would want them cared for above and beyond nurses cleaning the bathrooms.Many patients are capable of removing their own items out of the bathroom once they have finished with them. Unfortunately,some people come into hospital,put pyjamas on and then do nothing but stay in bed when they are capable of so much more.
The cleaners at GWH are primarily from Goa,they speak poor English and hygiene isn't as good as it could be,but maybe giving them more training would be better than constantly be-littling them like their supervisors do.(which i have seen nearly every day on my ward)They are treated as second class citizens by their supervisors and that is out of order.They are an important part of the team on our ward and should be treated accordingly.
As for the doctors,and nurses for that point,if they dont wash their hands...thn TELL THEM!!! There are posters throughout the hospital explaining the importance of hand hygiene.
As for the waiting time for drugs on discharge,you DONT have to wait,you are more than welcome to come back for the drugs. Once your prescription has gone down to pharmacy it is out of the wards hands. The pharmacy are constantly busy and things do take time.
We are lucky to have our hospital,why not support the people that work there?

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CE, WB says...
12:28pm Fri 14 Sep 07

Why are the nurses cleaning the bathrooms?? This should be down to the 'cleaners'. It says something if the cleaners have to be trained!! And we shouldn't have to tell the doctors to wash their hands, this is something I thought they did automatically.

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Big Mac, says...
12:34pm Fri 14 Sep 07

We are lucky to have our hospital


Why are we 'lucky' to have it? There are 180,000 people in Swindon all paying, on average, £4000 per year, per household towards the NHS via taxes and NI (that's the government's own figures).

For that kind of money we have a *right* to expect a clean, functioning hospital and to not contract MRSA should we ever visit the place.

Of course, immigrants, benefit scroungers and all the others that receive NHS treatment completely free of charge don't really have much room to complain.

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yeti, swindon says...
12:40pm Fri 14 Sep 07

the tories wrecked the nhs.and labour have failed to help it recover properly

Report this post »

Donkey, Swindon says...
12:48pm Fri 14 Sep 07

Harsh words do not help in improving matters, do they?

There are over-paid executives throughout the NHS and, in fact, many are similarly working for Swindon Borough Council. These people are a drain on resources and when one makes a comparison between a Goan cleaner working for an agency on the minimum wage and in a strange country and those at the top of the tree, it puts everything into perspective.

Equally, as has been pointed out, the buck stops at the top, so maybe Their Highnesses could take the trouble to go and take a look for themselves? Did they have no idea about these problems before the PPI meeting?

I would like to say a thank you to all the genuine caring staff at the GWH, and should I need them, I know I will be in better hands than are often depicted in the media.

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LD86, Swindon says...
1:07pm Fri 14 Sep 07

Grumpy wrote:
Look at the people doing the cleaning at GWH! Let's just say personal hygiene isn't a natural part of their culture!
If personal hygiene isn't part of their culture then it is no fault of their own as they know know better. Its is the hospitals responsibility to provide them with adequate training and give them guidlines as to what is and what is not acceptable.

Report this post »

KJ, Swindon says...
1:20pm Fri 14 Sep 07

My father died in GWH and while it was better than the disgusting John Radcliffe i still dont think it's up to scratch. To the mum of three who is a nurse there, I dont care what you say about someone who is more poorly than someone else. My dad was left by the nurses because he was dying they barely bothered with him, Ok they had patients that were more important to deal with but that does not excuse the face that there were blood stains in the bathroom in my fathers room. I can still picture it now and it did not help my state of mind at the time. A place where you think your loved ones will be in the best possible hands but in reality they might as well be on the street for the amount of care and hygiene that is provided for them.

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Yoda, SN1 1EL says...
2:32pm Fri 14 Sep 07

It is not all down to the managers. There are good and bad nursing staff and doctors. What support would the management get if they started firing the medical staff who can't or won't do their job properly; would the unions rush to support this action because the lazy and incompetent staff put an extra workload on the dedicated workers. Some hope!

As for the cleaning, if you think it is bad during the week, you won't believe how little happens at the weekends. Come first thing Monday morning, the wards see a sudden rush of activity to get things looking decent before the consultants start their rounds.

Of course the management have to do better but they also need our support when they get rid of the poor staff and start giving us good value for our money.

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Voice of reason, Near Swindon says...
4:13pm Fri 14 Sep 07

So the cleaners are from Goa and don't speak any English. Would I be correct in assuming that the GWH managment went for the cheapest tender possible for cleaning? My guess is yes, abd surprise surprise the chealjack company that carries out the work employs immigrants willing to work for a pittance ie slave labour. And apparently then the hostpital managment cant understand why hygiene standards are so poor? Maybe employing people at a working wage who speak the native lingo have had training and take a pride in what they do might help, but of course that migt cost them some money that could otherwise be spent on consultants.

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keep It Real, Swindon says...
5:15pm Fri 14 Sep 07

Donkey wrote: There are Goan executives throughout the NHS and, in fact, many are similarly working for Swindon Borough Council.


Wrong again Donkey you idiotic fool! There are not Goan executives throughout the NHS. Maybe there should be though!

Report this post »

Donkey, Swindon says...
5:24pm Fri 14 Sep 07

I don't know who, or indeed, what you are, but if you don't mind, refrain from reading any posts from the Donkey if all you can do is throw insults.

You Pr1ck!!!

Report this post »

brianj, swindon says...
5:27pm Fri 14 Sep 07

SACK the management and get some one in who cares.i was up the hospital a few weeks ago.and from what i could see it was ok but i was on kids ward seeing me son.
there was nothing wrong with his ward.
i agree if the cleaners a lacking in training then train them or get a company in that knows what it is doing i dont care what they speak as long as they understand it a hospital and it has to be spotless but to attack the poor nurses i sorry but they are understaffed and over worked so give them a break ok

Report this post »

keep It Real, Swindon says...
5:28pm Fri 14 Sep 07

the Donkey


Who do you think you are? Idiot, get off this site!

Report this post »

yeti, swindon says...
5:33pm Fri 14 Sep 07

keep It Real wrote:
the Donkey
Who do you think you are? Idiot, get off this site!
leave it moron!
donkeys got his opinions why dont you respect them?

all you are doing is making yourself look a plonker

Report this post »

keep It Real, Swindon says...
5:37pm Fri 14 Sep 07

yeti wrote:
keep It Real wrote:
the Donkey
Who do you think you are? Idiot, get off this site!
leave it moron! donkeys got his opinions why dont you respect them? all you are doing is making yourself look a plonker
Shut it. I don't know who you people think you are. If you have nothing constructive to say then dont say anything.
Thanks

Report this post »

keep It Real, Swindon says...
5:40pm Fri 14 Sep 07

Donkey wrote:
I don't know who, or indeed, what you are, but if you don't mind, refrain from reading any posts from the Donkey if all you can do is throw insults. You Pr1ck!!!
Is there really any need for this kind of thing on here? I think not. Please leave the site.
Thanks

Report this post »

yeti, swindon says...
5:42pm Fri 14 Sep 07

what a self rightous plonker you are keep it real!
grow up!

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keep It Real, Swindon says...
5:51pm Fri 14 Sep 07

Mum of three. Absolutely agree. I'm sick of people like donkey and Big MAc (on this occasion) slagging off the NHS. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Think about the bigger picture. There are so many poor blighters in this world who can't afford to even go to hospital or get treated humanely ata all when they are ill.

Swindon, we are proud of our hospital. The DOCTORS AND NURSES do a fantastic job.

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mum of three, Swindon says...
6:47pm Fri 14 Sep 07

I stand by the fact that the cleaners need more training.As for The MRSA mentioned,so many people have MRSA and aren't aware of it,so they are actually bringing it into the hospital,as opposed to contracting it there.We routinely screen patients from nursing/residential homes,many of which have it but are unaware.At the GWH,we have a low rate of MRSA compared to many other hospitals in the UK.
Somebody asked why nurses are cleaning bathrooms,well,that is actually part of our job,if a job needs doing then somebody has to do it.Nursing is not a glamorous job,it's hard work.Yes,we are often under-staffed and our work load is heavy,but i certainly wouldn't want to do any other job.Moral can be low,but it is the same in any job.
What makes it worth while is when you get a heartfelt thankyou from the patients and relatives,that makes my day....it means a job well done.If i can go home and think i have made a difference then i am extremely happy,even if the rest of the day has been a nightmare! Whether i am very un- glamorously cleaning a bathroom or holding a frightened patients hand,i believe myself and my collegues do a fantastic job.

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Mog, swindon says...
6:54pm Fri 14 Sep 07


Mum of three, why the heck should nurses be cleaning ? Cleaners are employed to do that. Nursing staff cleaning the toilets takes them away from the job they are paid to do. This is totally ridiculous. Nurses train for years at the tax payers expense to care and treat patients! Not to scrub ruddy bogs

My opinion for what its worth. I would not willingly be treated at GWH. When my daughter was born, it was a total nightmare, I was sworn at by the auxillaries, there were soiled sanitary towels on the floor of the loo for three days, oh yes and despite me repeatedly telling the staff there was something wrong with my baby, they refused to check her, when a paediatrician was eventually summoned she was a student, and failed to notice my baby had a heart defect and numerous other issues. Thankfully we have a fantastic GP who spotted her condition and got her referred to the appropriate specialists.

When I had my son 22 months later we went to bath RUH !! brilliant care, beautifully clean and a truly magical experience.
Cleaning wise the big difference between Bath and GWH is the fact that the cleaners in Bath work for a ward. Cleaners at GWH work wherever they are sent. Yes sadly few of them do not speak English. I will not say they are unclean themselves, as others accuse them of, but if they do not understand the instructions given to them how the heck are they supposed to do the job properly ?

Bring back Matron, assign two or three cleaners to each ward, and ensure that they understand the instructions given to them. Easy really isn't it ?


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Mog, swindon says...
6:58pm Fri 14 Sep 07


Sorry mum of three cross posted there, but Oi still maintain that trained nursing staff should not be cleaning toilets. Holding a frightened patients hand yes, doing obs, administering drugs, treating their illness/condition etc YES Cleaning toilets NO WAY !!

I will add to my earlier comments, that in my experience the kids ward is good. Terribly understaffed , but good. The nursing staff there are truly dedicated, caring and all round good eggs !!

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mum of three, Swindon says...
7:04pm Fri 14 Sep 07

We have regular cleaners on our ward,as do most of the other wards,this only normally changes when somebody is on annual leave or off sick.The cleaners are not allowed to clean up blood,urine,vomit or faeces,which is why it is necessary for the Nurses to clean this up.

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mum of three, Swindon says...
7:10pm Fri 14 Sep 07

Thats ok Mog! I am sure there are good/bad wards within the hospital,but its not fair that people tar everyone with the same brush. My job is fantastic and i worked extremely hard to get where i am,as do all nurses.
I also feel sorry for the cleaning staff,they could do better if they had the support and training provided by their supervisors. Instead they are shouted at and treated badly. They leave their families behind in Goa when they come to work here to make a better life for themselves. The house-keeping supervisors should be ashamed at the way they treat them. I wouldn't treat my dog like that.

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Kai, Gorse Hill says...
7:42pm Fri 14 Sep 07

My nan was in hospital for a week after some heart problems, and on the friday she was discharged about 10am. She was told to wait in the family waiting area for some medicines that were prescribed for her heart, and after asking at 6pm when she would be getting her medicines she was told that they had forgotten to get them for her and she'd have to make the 20 minute journey there to pick them up the next day, then the 20 minute journey home. It's disgusting that they can just forget to get medicines that important, and won't even offer to deliver them etc.

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oldtowner, Old Town says...
7:52pm Fri 14 Sep 07

keep It Real wrote:
Mum of three. Absolutely agree. I'm sick of people like donkey and Big MAc (on this occasion) slagging off the NHS. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Think about the bigger picture. There are so many poor blighters in this world who can't afford to even go to hospital or get treated humanely ata all when they are ill.

Swindon, we are proud of our hospital. The DOCTORS AND NURSES do a fantastic job.
You know what else? I have a car, a cellphone and a home computer that people in poor countries don't.

None of the suppliers of those try and stand behind lame "but think how lucky you are that you even have a phone, unlike starving Africans" excuses when they make mistakes. They apologise and try and fix the problem.

Because unlike the NHS, I can take my money elsewhere. So, they have to look after me. They have to offer a better deal than the next guy. That drives continuous improvement.

Report this post »

sue, says...
7:57pm Fri 14 Sep 07

i agree the hospital hygiene is not up to the standard it should be .my mum contracted c!diff in her stay there through poor hygiene, even though her tests came back postive for cdiff, her commode was taking out of the ward and used on other patients,she wasnt isulated until two weeks aftershe had tested postive for it. in my opion my mums death could have been prevented if the hospitals hygiene was up to standard.

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lilboo, Town Centre, Swindon says...
8:02pm Fri 14 Sep 07

Just to clarify a few points for the curious amongst us. I too work at the hospital in a nursing capacity, to narrow it down i work in an assessment unit for elective surgery, and all patients that come through the department (way before they are admitted) are screened for MRSA, and the number of people that are found to be MRSA positive (people whom have not yet been admitted i may add) is incredable. so again alot of the MRSA is contracted within the community, only a small number of patients have been found to be MRSA positive since being in our hospital this year, about 7 i believe, which is nothing compared to the thousands of people that come and stay with us each and every year. in respect of "Hand Washing" yes staff have a responsibility to ensure they clean hands between patients, but it is so easy to forget whilst under pressure due to government targets, to that end patients also have a responsilbilty towards their own well being to speak up when something isnt done or to refuse to accept treatment from the staff member in question until they have cleaned hands. alot of it comes down to education, whenever we see patients on our department, each and everyone is given the "handwashing lecture" at least 2 times during their visit, if even thats not enough they are even given "handwashing" literature, which describes what is available, and what should be done, and what action should be taken to address instances where it does not happen, yet so many times i have been onto the wards which my department serves, and i see patients relatives ignoring the signs and the firm words of staff on the wards about not cleaning hands.

In respect of who delivers our cleaning services, these are run and managed by Carillion under contract, the very contract which means we get to have the wonderful hospital that swindon has, unfortuantly management in thier bizzare wisdom allowed for this service to be outsourced.

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lilboo, Town Centre, Swindon says...
8:08pm Fri 14 Sep 07

oh and for those of you reading this that think, you no it all and think you could do a better job, then you are of course more then welcome to come and join us; www.jobs.nhs.uk

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CK, Swindon says...
8:27pm Fri 14 Sep 07

Before cleaning was handed over to contractors, every ward had it's Ward Maids. One of my friends was a Ward Maid and she and her colleagues took a great pride in their work. Their ward was so clean you could have eaten your dinner off the floor, and there wasn't a speck of dirt to be seen anywhere. Bathrooms were kept spotless, the walls were clean and you could see through the windows.

Perhaps it's time to get rid of the contractors and employ properly trained Ward Maids again.

Also get rid of the ridiculous HSE ruling (via the EU) that forbids cleaners to clean above head height.

Maybe then we'll have cleanliness and hygiene in our hospitals.

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angry man, swindon says...
8:38pm Fri 14 Sep 07

I am not surprised with this latest failure in the NHS and its hygiene standards, using excuses as “it’s hard to remember to wash hands, with government targets lol, public or private we all have Targets, goals to reach and work towards. If I used that excuses as a welder id have no eyes….oops sorry boss but will all these targets I forgot to use my helmet. Let’s face it though this is the same organization that employees terrorist cells what more do you expect….

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Voice of Sanity, Swindon says...
9:17pm Fri 14 Sep 07

My mother had the misfortune to spend some time in the GWH before she died - she spent time on the Jupiter and Mercury wards. Jupiter ward was not too bad but Mercury was a disgrace - filth on the walls and railings on the bed with a section of tablets on the floor that the staff had tried to give my mother!!

When it's my turn to go I have told my wife to drop me off at the bus station - far more hygienic!!!







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Voice of Sanity, Swindon says...
9:17pm Fri 14 Sep 07

** a selection of tablets.......

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Tracey, Wilts says...
9:21pm Fri 14 Sep 07

I have to agree with lilboo, I have spent a lot of time in GWH over the last couple of years, before surgery I was screened for MRSA, I was also screened before I was discharged! I have nothing but praise for the staff of GWH, everyone I have met has been professional, kind and courteous. My only complaint was the food, but then you can't have it all!! I have had experience of the NHS in five other counties and I have to say GWH beats them all hands down. People are happy to knock it, but if we lost the NHS they would soon be shouting then! I say the staff there are doing a great job and I can't thank them enough for the help and support they have given me!

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mum of three, Swindon says...
9:27pm Fri 14 Sep 07

Nice to hear somebody with a positive comment!

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red_gilly, swindon says...
10:12pm Fri 14 Sep 07

my nan went in hospital due to a uti, caught the cdiff bug snd died, some of the nurses were ok, others including the doctors did not seem to realise she was dying, only cause i am a nurse could see her dying and prepared family for it, sorry but i lost my nan to that hospital

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Big Mac, says...
9:46am Sat 15 Sep 07

Can I just clarify, my problem is with the NHS as a concept, as an organisation.

It was an ill considered venture from the outset and was never going to work and has never worked.

This country has been brainwashed into believing the NHS is a good idea when virtually no other country in the entire world has a similar system yet their levels of healthcare (outside of the third world) are far higher than in the UK.

I do not blame the nurses, I do not blame the doctors and I do not really blame the cleaning staff (although why anyone would wish to work in a strange country where they can't speak the language, I do not know).

As with almost all that is wrong with this country today, I blame the system itself.

The NHS, just like the Welfare State it is such a cornerstone of, needs to be scrapped and replaced.

It will never work properly and is simply a waste of taxpayers money.

I say again, it is NOT the fault of the staff, it is the fault of our political masters who would rather flush away our money to continue their experiment than admit it's failed.

THEY are the cause of the national disgrace that is the NHS.



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Big Mac, says...
9:47am Sat 15 Sep 07

I don't know who, or indeed, what you are, but if you don't mind, refrain from reading any posts from the Donkey if all you can do is throw insults.

You Pr1ck!!!


I almost never agree with anything you say Donkey, but at least you usually say it articulately and respectfully.

The above, whilst an absolute textbook lesson in irony, is a bit much Sir.

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smith, swindon says...
12:05pm Sat 15 Sep 07

I have spent quite a while in GWH over the last 3 years as a patient & the differences between the wards is so great you could almost be in different hospitals. Some wards and their staff are superb & world class, others are very very poor & scary! Regarding the cleaners, i found them very happy friendly people doing their best at what they were trained to do, the problem lies with Carillion & its management. I would tear up Carillions contract and employ their cleaners on the NHS. Regarding a lot of the highly paid & failing GWH management, then goodbye and good riddance as you have let the staff & public down appallingly. NHS get it sorted now!

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tibbie, swindon says...
4:24pm Sun 16 Sep 07

as an ex- housekeeper from Carillion I am aware on what you are getting at, whilst I was working for Carillion the housekeeping supervisors also be-littled us then and this was going back to 2003. When houskeeping staff were part of the trust itself and paid by the trust itself everything was done properly no questions asked, Housekeeping under the trust itself was jobs that we all were proud to do and took pride in what we did and how we did it, there were no complaints the housekeeping manager herself was extremly pleased with her staff's standards. Since Carillion took over all standards that were maintained under the trust have now ceased, reason being Carillion's ways on how they treat and speak to there staff. I know that and I witnessed a supervisor be-littlin a member of staff and I must say I was disgusted on what I saw. I felt that it was very in-appropiate

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tibbie, swindon says...
4:27pm Sun 16 Sep 07

hence I am now no longer employed by Carillion. I thought that their ways of dealing with their staff was totally un-acceptable, hence though I left through reason's of a private nature

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tibbie, swindon says...
4:31pm Sun 16 Sep 07

personal hygene may not be the top agenda for those from different ethnics that are employed as housekeeping assistants, but I don't think that comments should be made about there race or ethnic origin

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