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PCSOs have to let tagger go
8:15am Friday 12th October 2007
Comments (68)A TAGGER who was caught red-handed by a member of the public walked free when police told him there was no-one available to deal with him.
Two Police Community Support Officers were sent to confront the boy, who had been placed under citizen's arrest by council worker Richard Butler.
Mr Butler had seen a group of teenagers spraying the walls of the House of Fraser car park.
He intervened and detained the boy with the spray can in his hand.
The PCSOs decided to arrest the youngster, but as that was beyond their powers they called for a police officer to carry out the duty.
However, when they radioed through they were told no-one was able to come and deal with the boy.
Mr Butler, 56, said: "I was disgusted. I made an effort. I knew there was a big campaign going on to stop this graffiti and I thought I was just doing my bit to catch these people.
"The PCSOs were only allowed to detain them for half an hour. That's why they called the regular police to come and arrest them.
"They didn't have anyone available so they had to let them go.
"The PCSOs were annoyed themselves. These lads walked off calling them all the names under the sun."
The Adver launched a campaign to tackle graffiti earlier this year, working with the police and the council. There have been a number of taggers arrested.
The council has even offered cash rewards of £100 to catch the most prolific graffiti artists.
Mr Butler, from Grange Park, said: "I was going for my tea break and as I walked around the corner I saw a group of about five lads spraying the wall with an aerosol," he said.
"I made a citizen's arrest on the one with the can and I told him I was doing it for criminal damage.
"I took him back to the office and called the police and two PCSOs turned up.
"I told them what happened. He still had the aerosol can. They asked him various questions and they said they would call for a regular police officer.
"They got on the radio and were told no one was available so they had to let them go.
"With that they said I'm afraid we're going to have to let him go'.
"The next day these lads had come back and sprayed it all and made it worse, just to rub it in.
"I was trying to solve a problem and it makes you think, was it worth it? And it wasn't."
- A 16-year-old has since been arrested in connection with the incident.
Your Say YourSwindon Advertiser
Grumpy, Swindon says...
9:13am Fri 12 Oct 07
themoonraker, swindon says...
9:18am Fri 12 Oct 07
If the PCSOS do not have the power of arrest, why not? and whats the point of them?
I cannot believe that every PC on duty in Swindon was busy attending actual call outs/incidents......
.are we now being told that 'catching up on paperwork' is more important than arresting criminals?
What about the remainder of the Police force on duty? are they incapable of getting off of their backsides and going out making arrests?
Is the lure of a warm office, tea and sandwiches more important?
Incidentally, Inow see that a youth has been arrested....isn't it a shame he isn't still in sity, with the incriminating spray can in his hand!.....still, never mind, it will only make slightly more paperwork than if he was arrested at the time!
To the overstretched PC's ...you have my sympathies....but get on with your paperwork!
To the remainder of the Swindon Police Officers, with powers of arrest, who were on duty at the time, I repeat SHAME,SHAME, SHAME ON YOU
mike, Malmesbury says...
9:24am Fri 12 Oct 07
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
9:25am Fri 12 Oct 07
Andy_C, Swindon says...
9:26am Fri 12 Oct 07
thutch, highworth says...
9:30am Fri 12 Oct 07
nostim, swindon says...
9:31am Fri 12 Oct 07
nostim, swindon says...
9:34am Fri 12 Oct 07
Must have been because someone left their coffee before time.
Amused, Happy Land says...
9:35am Fri 12 Oct 07
Almost sounds like a temporary insanity plea in the making.
I don't think they'd have enough "real" police available to arrest Mr Butler anyway, he looks a bit scary to me!
Tobz, says...
9:54am Fri 12 Oct 07
an idea, swindon says...
9:59am Fri 12 Oct 07
I am so fed up to read insults to the police and to see the law too soft on people who are only RUBBISH!
:(
Mellish, Hounslow says...
9:59am Fri 12 Oct 07
PaulD, says...
10:07am Fri 12 Oct 07
Mellish wrote:I bet not many people have a go at him for ticketing his car. Perhaps he was the one who ticketed the driver who claimed his badge was upside down and the motorcyclist who parked illegally!
I think Mr Butler is not just any old council worker. He's a traffic warden. Do we all still like him?
Big Mac, says...
10:13am Fri 12 Oct 07
All of this 'Community Support Officer' nonsense is just another example of Labour's total failure to halt the massive rise in crime that has occurred during their 10 years of power.
The really sad thing is that virtually everybody's lives, or the lives of their families and friends, are touched by crime on a regular basis and yet nothing is done about it.
I genuinely believe that it's Labour's intention to 'train' us all to simply accept crime as a part of everyday life. Many people already seem to believe that as they keep on voting Labour - the party of the criminal.
an idea, swindon says...
10:14am Fri 12 Oct 07
Mellish wrote:under those circumstances... YES
I think Mr Butler is not just any old council worker. He's a traffic warden. Do we all still like him?
Paul, Swindon says...
10:34am Fri 12 Oct 07
Big Mac wrote:Is your life so sad that you have to blame Labour for absolutely everything? I don't particularly like them at times, but really....
PCSOs do not need more powers... they need scrapping and replacing with real police officers! All of this 'Community Support Officer' nonsense is just another example of Labour's total failure to halt the massive rise in crime that has occurred during their 10 years of power. The really sad thing is that virtually everybody's lives, or the lives of their families and friends, are touched by crime on a regular basis and yet nothing is done about it. I genuinely believe that it's Labour's intention to 'train' us all to simply accept crime as a part of everyday life. Many people already seem to believe that as they keep on voting Labour - the party of the criminal.
If you are so anti-Labour (aren't we all at times?) suggest something practical for once (which is also realistic) instead of just criticising all the time.
I'll guess that you're either Tory, UKIP or BNP. You just feed people's perception of the stereotype who support those parties.
Oh, I don't vote Labour/Green/Lib Dem or any other party your sort would class as lefty.
Big Mac, says...
10:51am Fri 12 Oct 07
If you are so anti-Labour (aren't we all at times?) suggest something practical for once (which is also realistic) instead of just criticising all the time.
Er, I did. Replace PCSOs with the police officers we pay record levels of tax currently to employ.
That's hardly unrealistic, is it?
I'll guess that you're either Tory, UKIP or BNP. You just feed people's perception of the stereotype who support those parties.
Well that's ironic, because I don't support any of those parties.
In fact, there isn't a political party in this country that's worth supporting. I only vote Tory as they are the only party who have a hope of ridding us of this Labour menace.
BTW, your post reflects the problem we have in this country. You're anti-Labour, by your own admission, yet seem happy to defend them.
Mind you, your suggestions to improve the police service and reduce crime are certainly very interesting. They were a bit long-winded though.
Interesting, you imply that you don't like the Tory, UKIP or BNP parties and then claim not to vote for Labour/Green/Lib Dem.
I can only assume you either don't vote at all or are happy in the knowledge that whoever you do vote for will never be in power.
Just A Thought, says...
11:17am Fri 12 Oct 07
Back to the subject, if it takes a few of us to give these little scum bags a slap before police start patrolling properly so be it, this tagging is the same as the bus shelter and phone booth glass breaking Maybe when these urchins are caught they should have their playstations etc taken off of them to repay the debt. We need a clear and decisive message sent to these people Its unacceptable and you will be punished. not Its ok and do you want a ASBO you can ignore?
adam, Swindon says...
11:22am Fri 12 Oct 07
Very lucky taggers!!
an idea, swindon says...
11:27am Fri 12 Oct 07
adam wrote:for the moment...
Mr Butler is a very close and personal friend of mine. He used to do the door at my pub and Im extremely surprised that he was kind enough no to have resolved the matter himself. Very lucky taggers!!
sooner or later they will find what they deserve ;)
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
11:31am Fri 12 Oct 07
Well that's ironic, because I don't support any of those parties.
In fact, there isn't a political party in this country that's worth supporting. I only vote Tory as they are the only party who have a hope of ridding us of this Labour menace.
You dont support any of those parties and none are worth supporting but you vote Tory..?
You really telling me they will do any better Total Boswelox there all the same..
yeti, swindon says...
11:35am Fri 12 Oct 07
anyone see the story of the two who stood and watched a boy drown as they were not trained to jump in ponds and save lives?pathetic!!!!
we need more police and tougher laws.even when handed the criminals with evidence they were powerless to nick the scumbags!
sort it out now government!!!! the hardworking, honest people have had enough of this namby pamby approach to law and order!
Big Mac, says...
11:52am Fri 12 Oct 07
but to continually state the same opinion is a bit taxing .
Good work Sir! :)
You dont support any of those parties and none are worth supporting but you vote Tory..?
It's called the 'lesser of two evils'. I don't support the Tory party but I would far rather they were in power because I'm sure they'd do a better job than Labour, even if it is only a slightly better job. Surely that's what using your vote should be all about - not just voting for the same party you've always voted for.
You really telling me they will do any better Total Boswelox there all the same..
Well, nobody knows for sure. But after an entire 10 years of making a complete hash of it I think Labour need to stand aside and let somebody else have a go.
And, if they're 'all the same' then surely it's worth you voting for some fresh blood to lead the country. After all, if you think it won't make any difference, why not?
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
12:10pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Big Mac, says...
2:13pm Fri 12 Oct 07
No, of course you don't, because all you can do is act like a comrade and spout the usual nonsense about the Tories 'sh1tting on the working class'.
What you don't seem to realise is that social mobility and the divide between the rich and poor has got worse since Labour took over!
Your lot are also the ones who are removing tax breaks for the poorest working class people in the country.
It's people like you that vote Labour because you think they champion your sort that make me laugh most loudly. They taking the p1ss out of you and you think they're your friends - no wonder Brown smirks so often.
yeti, swindon says...
2:20pm Fri 12 Oct 07
the tories only looked after the wealthy
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
2:29pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
2:30pm Fri 12 Oct 07
yeti, swindon says...
2:34pm Fri 12 Oct 07
they sold off virtually all the publicly owned companys,making the public suffer.
cut funding to the nhs by huge amounts.
sold off council houses when more were needed to be built.
wrecked the economy.etc.etc.etc
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
2:37pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Amused, Happy Land says...
2:40pm Fri 12 Oct 07
On a seperate note, if MR Mac insists on continually go on about Labour being the spawn of Satan time and time again, I will have to bar him from the legendary Friday Hot tub party.
It's for bikini clad lovelies (Anne, Sammie, CE etc) and happy smiley geezers (adam, VOR, Yeti etc), not people going on and on about Labour this and Labour that. Face it Mr Mac, they all promise the moon on a stick until they get into number 10, then it's all changed. We'll never win, regardless of which muppet is in power, fact.
Right, enough of that serious stuff, who's up for a happy pill and a cuddle?
xx
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
2:47pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Amused, Happy Land says...
2:53pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
2:55pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
2:59pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Labours fault
Amused, Happy Land says...
3:00pm Fri 12 Oct 07
brianj, swindon says...
3:02pm Fri 12 Oct 07
JEA, Swindon says...
3:03pm Fri 12 Oct 07
PCSO's do have a place in a modern police force.
I presume it costs a LOT of money to recruit and train a police officer. To have that officer then spend the majority of their time issuing tickets, guarding crime scenes and on other 'mundane' tasks would be a WASTE of resources. These tasks are still vital to police work but there's no point in tying up a fully qualified officer for hours when "they should be solving real crime" as their critics are often quick to point out (paper work tying up officer's time is another issue). This is not policing on the cheap but a way of ensuring that the right levels of resources are allocated to the right tasks. It means my taxes are not being wasted by spending huge amounts of money to have 'proper' officers following up noise complaints etc.
They should not be treated as regular police or be expected to perform as regular police, a point usually missed by the media.
Their role is also more than just carrying out these 'mundane' tasks.
They punch well above their weight with regard to tasks such as intelligence gathering and community policing.
Their different uniform and limited powers are actually one of their greatest assets. It means people are more likely to approach and talk to them. A regular officer, with their powers of arrest, handcuffs, truncheons, pepper spay etc. can actually be quite intimidating, especially if you're not exactly squeaky clean yourself. PCSO's can present a more friendly face, put boots on the ground, and get to the heart of their communities in order to detect and prevent crime. This is, in my humble opinion anyway, THE most important task in modern policing.
Even though Im far from a leftie, I have to concede theyre a good idea.
Rant over, bring on the rebuttals...
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
3:07pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Amused, Happy Land says...
3:37pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Jason, says...
4:12pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
4:21pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Amused, Happy Land says...
4:22pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Amused, Happy Land says...
4:23pm Fri 12 Oct 07
big hairy sack...he he
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
4:24pm Fri 12 Oct 07
adam, Swindon says...
4:28pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Amused, Happy Land says...
4:28pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Amused, Happy Land says...
4:29pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Me too mate
Big Mac, says...
4:32pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Also I DONT vote Labour I think there all a bunch of lying cheating to faced swindlers so that shuts you up...
No, it just proves how illiterate you are.
adam, Swindon says...
4:32pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Glad to take 10 mins out of my week to make a post at last.
Im going to have to demand a pay rise for all this work stuff they make me do. I just out of order (,)
Dosomethingmutley, Hanger 14 Swindon says...
4:33pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Other countries must be laughing at our pitiful attempts to improve policing and police numbers, what a joke.
adam, Swindon says...
4:34pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Yabba Dabba dooooooooooo!!!!
Amused, Happy Land says...
4:34pm Fri 12 Oct 07
I reckon it's Labours fault mate
Hairy sack tee hee
adam, Swindon says...
4:41pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Amused wrote:Mr Amused,
Yeah, cos you don't earn enough do you? I reckon it's Labours fault mate Hairy sack tee hee
Its not the quantity of work but the quality.
Hairy Sack .. te he he
Paul, Swindon says...
5:18pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Big Mac wrote:So that's Tory then.
If you are so anti-Labour (aren't we all at times?) suggest something practical for once (which is also realistic) instead of just criticising all the time.Er, I did. Replace PCSOs with the police officers we pay record levels of tax currently to employ. That's hardly unrealistic, is it?I'll guess that you're either Tory, UKIP or BNP. You just feed people's perception of the stereotype who support those parties.Well that's ironic, because I don't support any of those parties. In fact, there isn't a political party in this country that's worth supporting. I only vote Tory as they are the only party who have a hope of ridding us of this Labour menace. BTW, your post reflects the problem we have in this country. You're anti-Labour, by your own admission, yet seem happy to defend them. Mind you, your suggestions to improve the police service and reduce crime are certainly very interesting. They were a bit long-winded though. Interesting, you imply that you don't like the Tory, UKIP or BNP parties and then claim not to vote for Labour/Green/Lib Dem. I can only assume you either don't vote at all or are happy in the knowledge that whoever you do vote for will never be in power.
Still no constructive comments though, even when you defend yourself. Just criticism of those who do make suggestions.
And yes, you are correct in your assumption I don't vote at the moment. When someone is worth voting for, I will. That won't be Shameron on his current form. He is as unconstructive with too much criticism and not enough substance as yourself. He is very good at buying votes with his reverse stealth tax approach though. It'll be interesting to see what is left to spend when he has emptied the Treasury to buy his way into office.
Oh, and so much for the "Labour menace". I remember bombs in London and Warrington, unemployment at 3 million, a thousand people dead in the Falklands and paying 12% interest on my mortgage. I think that I can live with a thug with a spray can still roaming the streets.
mike, Malmesbury says...
5:19pm Fri 12 Oct 07
BTW what happened in the case of those 12 'Irish travellers' that 120 plods plus a kennel load of dogs rounded up in a raid on the Chiseldon Firs sanctuary for lost caravans? Will their fate be publicised? Which reminds me, did the plods find any roadsigns during their visit? North Wilts has had dozens stolen recently and not replaced.
JEA, Swindon says...
6:33pm Fri 12 Oct 07
Returning to the Adver's report, I see that a 16 year old has been arrested in connection with the criminal damage. I hope that - if proved guilty - he is sentenced adequately (perhaps a fine plus compensation for the damage done both of which can be paid by community service at the national minimum wage).
The parents surely bear a responsibility to teach their kids right from wrong. I belive the fine should go to his/her parents.
Tarot, Swindon says...
10:54pm Fri 12 Oct 07
There is no option to comment so perhaps we can do it here.
Where are the vigilantes when you need them after all they appear to be our only hope now.
mike, Malmesbury says...
9:46am Sat 13 Oct 07
Who censors the news items and decides to prevent comment by the public?
Perhaps there's a quota of bad news which mustn't be exceeded. Anyone reading the Adver on-line soon gets the impression that Swindon is plagued by barbaric yobs who are allowed to run free.
Is news of the naughty Irish Travellers and their stash of caravans barred for this reason? Will the yob caught red-handed be told to behave himself or he could face a day scrubbing off graffiti?
I may have dreamt this, but did this crime riddled former People's Democratic Republic once think itself worthy of the title 'city' alongside Bath, Exeter and Oxford?
Big Mac, says...
12:06pm Sat 13 Oct 07
Still no constructive comments though, even when you defend yourself. Just criticism of those who do make suggestions.
I highlighted my original constructive suggestion for you. Are you unable to read, or just choosing to be ignorant?
We're still awaiting your suggestions, naturally.
I remember bombs in London and Warrington, unemployment at 3 million, a thousand people dead in the Falklands and paying 12% interest on my mortgage.
And I was called 'sad' for blaming the government when things directly under government control go wrong.
At least I live in the here and now and not 20 years ago.
Paul, Swindon says...
5:56pm Sat 13 Oct 07
Big Mac wrote:It's called learning lessons from the past. Not living in the past. New Tory/New Labour - it's all the same. If you think Shameron will be that different - forget it. He wants the middle ground in politics. Anything more extreme more extreme may end up with the cr@p we had 20 years ago. Old Tory (and you do smell of it, even though you deny it) is even more dangerous than your "Labour menace" (you don't read thr Daily Mail perchance, do you?)
Paul wrote:Still no constructive comments though, even when you defend yourself. Just criticism of those who do make suggestions.I highlighted my original constructive suggestion for you. Are you unable to read, or just choosing to be ignorant? We're still awaiting your suggestions, naturally.I remember bombs in London and Warrington, unemployment at 3 million, a thousand people dead in the Falklands and paying 12% interest on my mortgage.And I was called 'sad' for blaming the government when things directly under government control go wrong. At least I live in the here and now and not 20 years ago.
Also, I said "constructive". Thousands of police officers around the country means more than the record levels of tax which you appear to experience (may I suggest a good accountant?). Would you be happy to pay more? Or would you rather drop police wages to that of PCSOs? Yes, more PCs, but the abolition of PCSOs? A balance would be good. But, I think you're a tad extreme in your views for balance to be acceptable.
Ignorant? Look in the mirror.
Big Mac, says...
9:53am Sun 14 Oct 07
Paul, Swindon says...
3:39pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Big Mac wrote:Tad Informal adv. to a minor extent.
If you think my views are 'extreme', I'd suggest you need to get out a little more.
As in "tad extreme".
If you weren't so easy to inflame, or I thought you were a raving Nazi, I wouldn't be bothering.
How's the Mail on Sunday looking today?
jesuswept117, swindon says...
6:33pm Sun 14 Oct 07
jack the rippler, east 17 says...
8:58pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Next time I see a copper getting a slap, I would walk on. No I wouldn't really because damage to a building rates higher than a human life. I may have got this story all wrong.
Do I win £10?
steve-o, Swindon says...
2:05pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Jason, says...
4:47pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Richard Butler
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Amused, Happy Land says...
9:06am Fri 12 Oct 07