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Tackling prostitution in Swindon
9:19pm Sunday 4th May 2008
Comments (42)
ONE of the biggest problems facing Swindon police is prostitution. Women are selling themselves across town, both working as street prostitutes and out of brothels, massage parlours and as call girls.
It is a crime both to sell sex or to pay for it. It is also illegal to run a brothel or profit from another person selling their body.
As well as the main offences linked to prostitution, the town's police are also concerned about other crimes linked to the sex trade, such as drug taking.
Insp Carly Nesbitt, in charge of the central sector neighbourhood policing teams, said: "We can arrest girls for soliciting and we can also get men who pick women up.
"We can compile information to decide whether they are offending by observing them, and if we see them getting into vehicles it helps build a case.
"By speaking to both parties we can then put more of a case together.
"On some occasions people suspected of soliciting can be told to leave a certain area. If they return to that area and don't have a legitimate reason to be there then we can arrest them.
"It all depends on the circumstances and there have been some cases where officers have caught them in the act with a client."
Insp Nesbitt explained that after arrests had been made there were a number of ways suspects could be dealt with.
"Depending on how many times they have been cautioned before we will decide whether to caution or charge them. Whatever happens they would still be arrested and taken to the police station and details taken. Normally after two cautions they would get the status of common prostitute.
"Depending on the age of the girl sometimes there would be more of a threat and they would be put under a police protection order.
"When it comes to kerb crawlers they can be cautioned or charged.
"We are also thinking of introducing, with the Crown Prosecution Service, a system of conditional cautioning."
Call to legalise brothels
A MAN who was accused of running a brothel has called for them to be legalised.
The man was charged with running a brothel but, speaking to the Adver, he said he just wanted to provide a safe place for prostitutes to work.
The man said he allowed his home to be used for his mother and a friend to sell sex as a safer alternative to walking the streets.
"We want nothing. I'm not making any money out of this. Anyone who comes here can see that we are not some big organisation making money," he said.
"These girls are just trying to work in a safe environment.
"This is my mother. Obviously I'm not totally happy about what she does. But if she is going to I would rather she was working under my roof.
"I'm just keeping her safe so she is not working on the streets.
"The police's attitude seemed to be that the girls on the streets were high on drugs so their lives were worthless.
"We know my mother has never touched drugs. It doesn't always revolve around drugs.
"The other woman has kids. That's how she provides for them. She has three little boys and she does what she has to do to get by. This was more an act of desperation on my part. I don't exactly enjoy what my mother is doing. But I can't stop her.
"It is so much better for them to work here where it is safe.
"We have got CCTV so we know who is coming in and who's going out. If anything did go wrong we have got security cameras and I'm here.
"The biggest thing I can't understand is how or why they haven't legalised it.
"What is the difference between porn films and a person paying for sex?
"Why is it that different when it is just not being filmed?"
Your Say YourSwindon Advertiser
GDean, Australia says...
3:56am Mon 5 May 08
All in all, those that want to work in it, or visit have a safe place to do so and the streets have been left to normal people again. It works.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
8:13am Mon 5 May 08
I do however have to agree with this comment:
"What is the difference between **** films and a person paying for sex? It does seem somewhat of a double standard. I would also be quite worried as a client visiting a brothel where a son allows his own mother to prostitute herself and record the comings and goings, so to speak.
BWB, SWINDON says...
8:26am Mon 5 May 08
In the meantime some
poor sod is being mugged,or cars are being vandalised.
Ins. Nesbitt ,get your priorities right.
Concentrate on the REAL CRIME,NOT the easy options.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
8:30am Mon 5 May 08
BWB, SWINDON says...
8:46am Mon 5 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:Robert.
BWB, if your residential area was blighted by this, and your female or for that male, family were accosted, I guess you would be happy with that.
There is no comparison at all.
If accosted,you can tell them to F*** off.
You cant say that to a tooled up mugger
intent on relieving you of your money.
Or the yobs wrenching
your car mirror off.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
9:12am Mon 5 May 08
Donkey, Swindon says...
9:52am Mon 5 May 08
1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver.
2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'!
Need I say more?
BWB, SWINDON says...
9:53am Mon 5 May 08
So they intimidate someone for money.Yes we are back to mugging.
I dont think there is an easy solution.
BWB, SWINDON says...
10:04am Mon 5 May 08
Donkey wrote:Good point Donkey.
Two points: 1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver. 2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'! Need I say more?
Perhaps the media that take these ads
could be aiding and abetting. also taking
ad money from immoral
earnings.Money is louder than words.
Suzanne Hammond, Colwyn Bay says...
10:40am Mon 5 May 08
Sadly, Swindon Police are likely to make a bad situation worse for street prostitutes by forcing the trade into dark alleys from well-lit streets, making girls more vulnerable to the next Peter Sutcliffe or Steve Wright to come along.
And the Home Office is even now considering making paying for sex (not selling it) illegal.
For a fuller version of the law go here:
http://www.sw5.info/
law.htm
And to do something about it, go here:
http://petitions.pm.
gov.uk/sexworkers/
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
12:22pm Mon 5 May 08
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to reject proposals to drive prostitution further underground by prosecuting clients of prostitutes; to endorse the policy suggested by the Royal College of Nursing, the National Association of Probation Officers and others by decriminalising prostitution; and to observe Council of Europe Resolution 1579 of October 2007
Tobz, says...
1:09pm Mon 5 May 08
Two points:
1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver.
2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'!
Need I say more?
Spot on Donkey! It makes our local answer to the Daily Mail look somewhat hypocritical, does it not? Money talks - on the street or to the advertising sales guys in the paper... (As we're unlikely to get a proper editorial comment here, I think I'll raise this for open and uncensored debate on another community chat forum ;-) )
Chav, North Swindon says...
2:32pm Mon 5 May 08
You are never going to stop it.
Move the prostitutes on and you are just moving the problem to another area.
I think the only way to get a handle on it, is to accomodate it - not in the way people think.
If there was a place that was out of the way of residential areas, that was a registered place, then they would have somewhere to go where it is monitored.
I am a woman and I do not like the thought of walking through town beeing leered at by kerb crawlers mistaking me for a lady of the night, but as I say, you will never totally rid any area of it completely.
Chav
Frontier(s), says...
3:18pm Mon 5 May 08
Anyway, as the law considers prostitutes to be 'victims', rather than criminals (just like it does drug addicts), you can be sure this problem will continue - encouraged by the very authorities who pretend to want to stamp it out.
Lock up all prostitutes for a long times and, within a few months, there will be less prostituion. But, of course, they'll never do that.
HoneyPie, The Shire says...
3:48pm Mon 5 May 08
Surely the most sensible proposal would be to look at the Australian solution, where the 'problem' is controlled and at least offers some protection for both parties. As well as the tax revenue gain, the drugs problem tends to be reduced and the dangers to health of all involved (including any innocent partners) are protected far more than is currently the case.
If it is away from family areas,surely it is better for everyone concerned.
'Legalisation' or introducing some form of control doesn't necessarily mean condoning what is going on.
P S Altery, Swindon says...
6:25pm Mon 5 May 08
Donkey wrote:First time I've ever agreed with you, spot on!
Two points: 1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver. 2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'! Need I say more?
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
6:34pm Mon 5 May 08
debate on the merits, but If someone is happily married ( whatever that may mean) is the Carnal Urge so great that people would put that at risk.
amlorusso, Swindon says...
6:56pm Mon 5 May 08
Why do prostitutes and clients do this? Ask them, but not every client is a married looking for extra-marital sex, and not every prostitute is funding a drug habit.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
7:24pm Mon 5 May 08
who dat?, says...
7:42pm Mon 5 May 08
"Donkey wrote:
Two points: 1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver. 2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'! Need I say more?
Good point Donkey.
Perhaps the media that take these ads
could be aiding and abetting. also taking
ad money from immoral
earnings.Money is louder than words."
Interesting that 6 MONTHS after the Government and the Newspaper Society launched a campaign to reduce sex trafficking
that the Adver continues to run these ads - presumably Mr Gannett carries more clout at Adver towers than d-d-d-d-dithering Gordon!
Any views from the " Minister for Britishness" or B'Anne'd Wagon Snelgrove?
See:
holdthefrontpage.co.
uk/news/080201sextra
de.shtml
newspapersoc.org.uk/
Default.aspx?page=29
80
HoneyPie, The Shire says...
9:42pm Mon 5 May 08
You also claim to have some knowledge of who these clients might be. Not just speculation. Interesting.
I don't understand why these women (and men, for that matter) prostitute their bodies on the streets and on the pages of numerous **** mags and so-called family newspapers. Not to mention films and nightclubs, et al. Other than they are offered money to do it. Usually by men, I understand (although I couldn't possibly corroborate that theory - I have no inside knowledge as such). And why would a man put himself at risk of picking up a nasty disease? It's a risky business for all concerned.
History has demonstrated that you can't get rid of it, only move it somewhere else, send it underground or have proper control of the situation. Clearing them off the streets just makes room for more. The prisons are already bursting at the seams. An answer based in the real world is needed to solve the problem.
We need to be open to ideas that have made a positive difference. Like Australia. They may not have solved it, but they've made it a little bit safer for all concerned.
Mumstheword, Walcot says...
10:32pm Mon 5 May 08
SpeakUp, Swindon says...
1:45am Tue 6 May 08
The fact is you won't stop this sleazy trade. Many generations have tried and failed. It's a shame but no less true for all that.
Tackle the drug problem forcefully and maybe the number of prostitutes will, at least, decrease.
Oh, and make it illegal for newspapers to make profit from advertising the illegal activity too. Or maybe the Adver could lead the moral way and refuse to publish these adverts? Bet they don't.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
8:06am Tue 6 May 08
You also claim to have some knowledge of who these clients might be. Not just speculation. Interesting. I use to be a policeman in the days when we actually did something constructive on the streets, not I hasten to add in Wiltshire. My knowledge comes from the 'facts'. As for pushing it elsewhere if there was zero tolerance in Swindon then it wouldn't matter where they went the police would follow. Aside from enforced prostitution, ie gangs and pimps, those who do it make choices. Those men/women who use prostitutes make choices, those choices are illegal and should be dealt with as such. A society which chooses which laws it wants to obey is on a slippery slope to Anarchy.
Covingham Exile, Hampshire says...
8:52am Tue 6 May 08
angry monkey, Swindon says...
9:40am Tue 6 May 08
A war on prositiution is as pointless as the war on drugs. It will never be won. ever.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
10:23am Tue 6 May 08
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
10:26am Tue 6 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:Well, if we did it on prostitution and drugs, labour could tax it until you couldn't afford to anyway!
So why not give up on all crimes, abolish the police save millions. As I said ignore any law and one creates the potential for Anarchy.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
10:30am Tue 6 May 08
Voice of Reason, The Parks says...
11:11am Tue 6 May 08
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
12:24pm Tue 6 May 08
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
12:27pm Tue 6 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:Yes, it was an imperial "we", Bob, haha!
I sincerely hope that was meant as the 'royal you, LordB.
HoneyPie, The Shire says...
12:59pm Tue 6 May 08
Every encounter with these male predators was with young-ish blokes who I would strongly suspect were not married or with partners. But that's just my experience.
Look at the Stag party trips to Amsterdam & Prague and the like. What a great laugh (not).
Fortunately, these sleeze-balls appear to be in the minority. But you are not going to stop it with pie-in-the-sky 'zero tolerance' zones - you will just move it elsewhere or underground. Yes, yes, yes, it's illegal. So are many things that the law has trouble enforcing. I would wager that the law has changed considerably since you pounded the beat - we need to live in the reality of here and now.
Anarchy is often the result of uninforceable law. Get control. Get a grip!
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
1:09pm Tue 6 May 08
dalekdave, Swindon says...
4:48pm Tue 6 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:Perhaps crime should be defined as only something that someone does to someone who doesnt want it done to them (murder, rape, robbery etc) then this wouldn't be a crime. If people want to engage in this activity willingly, either as worker or customer, why not? Take it off the streets, tax it etc and then those whose lives are blighted by it (Manchester Road area) etc will get some peace at last.
So why not give up on all crimes, abolish the police save millions. As I said ignore any law and one creates the potential for Anarchy.
HoneyPie, The Shire says...
6:43pm Tue 6 May 08
I think it might have been the introduction of the Police & Criminal Evidence Act that started the slipery slope for the police.
And I also think DalekDave is spot-on.
malkym, says...
8:25pm Tue 6 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:Err RFM as an ex copper your naivety is sometimes mindblowing - to answer your questions - a)because the women know there will always be guys who will pay for it, and they are down on their uppers and unable to survive on state handouts it may be a choice between selling sex and feeding the kids and paying the rent, or they are druggies b)men are clients because they are not in a relationship, and feel unable or they do not want to form one therefore the tart option suits -it discharges its obligation without recourse. c)the unhappily married man needs a safety valve to let off steam and the hooker is the release valve - QED eh RFM?
Sorry this may be old fashioned, but why would women want to prostitute themselves, and why would men want to be clients. I don't wish to create a debate on the merits, but If someone is happily married ( whatever that may mean) is the Carnal Urge so great that people would put that at risk.
malkym, says...
10:22pm Tue 6 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:Err RFM as an ex copper your naivety is sometimes mindblowing - to answer your questions - a)because the women know there will always be guys who will pay for it, and they are down on their uppers and unable to survive on state handouts it may be a choice between selling sex and feeding the kids and paying the rent, or they are druggies b)men are clients because they are not in a relationship, and feel unable or they do not want to form one therefore the tart option suits -it discharges its obligation without recourse. c)the unhappily married man needs a safety valve to let off steam and the hooker is the release valve - QED eh RFM?
Sorry this may be old fashioned, but why would women want to prostitute themselves, and why would men want to be clients. I don't wish to create a debate on the merits, but If someone is happily married ( whatever that may mean) is the Carnal Urge so great that people would put that at risk.
amlorusso, Swindon says...
5:09am Wed 7 May 08
"Those men/women who use prostitutes make choices, those choices are illegal and should be dealt with as such. A society which chooses which laws it wants to obey is on a slippery slope to Anarchy."
Yes, laws need to be enforced. I've said that. My objectivity moment. But imaginary laws should not be enforced or promoted. There is a concerted campaign to push the idea that all buying and selling of sex is illegal, by people who wish it all buying and selling of sex was illegal.
"Suzanne, to coin a phrase, 'you cannot be serious'
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to reject proposals to drive prostitution further underground by prosecuting clients of prostitutes; to endorse the policy suggested by the Royal College of Nursing, the National Association of Probation Officers and others by decriminalising prostitution; and to observe Council of Europe Resolution 1579 of October 2007"
There are clear and known social problems from the consumption of alchohol. Not everybody who consumes alchohol causes problems to themselves or others, but there are enough to cause real problems in our health service, in our homes and on our streets.
How would you react to the proposal to enact a law to rid ourselves the scourge of alchohol, by making illegal the buying, selling and production of alchohol. All our regulations regarding the licensing of the production and sale of alchohol would be gone. Ridiculous you say?
As an ex-policeman and now a Landlord how do you balance the idea that alchohol can be consumed responsibly by some, and irresponsibly by others. Enact and enforce legislation against the anti-social aspects of alcohol you say, license the production of alchhol and the sale of alchohol, including the consumption of alchohol on the premesis, with dozens even hundreds of other people at the same time.
Ridiculous?
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
9:12am Wed 7 May 08
amlorusso, Swindon says...
3:11am Thu 8 May 08
"By all means have your brothels if that is what the majority want but don't expect the decent citizens of Swindon or anywhere else to condone or approve."
So if the majority want it they are all indecent?
I wasn't expecting anything else from you or the decent citizens of Swindon, which includes me by the way, except the objectivity you think I lack.
If you were being objective you would be calling for this to be licensed. But you can't conceive of it and why people do this. You want to be a Public Official, you hope to be a member of parliament. If elected you are going to have to deal with this and other complex issues, and yet you can't imagine it.
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amlorusso, Swindon says...
3:52am Mon 5 May 08
Repeat until this sinks in "Buying and selling sex is not automatically illegal, however many of the activities surrounding it are."
Prostitution is an important issue, whatever side of the fence you sit on. Important enough that this kind of mis-reporting is of no help.