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Concern over helicopter
4:04am Monday 19th May 2008
Comments (87)
WILTSHIRE'S new chief constable has expressed his concern over the threat to the county's air ambulance service, which the police share and use in operations.
Last week it was revealed how the Wiltshire Air Ambulance may not be used in conjunction with Wiltshire Police in future as plans are considered for a new helicopter to be based near Bristol, which will serve three counties.
The Great Western Ambulance Service is scheduled to launch a new air ambulance for Avon soon, based at Filton. It is understood that the police want to renew the lease for five years, from December 2008, to continue with a joint police helicopter and air ambulance. Wiltshire Police's chief constable, Brian Moore, said that both he and the police authority were worried by what was happening.
Mr Moore warned: "I am concerned, because if we can't find a partner then we won't be able to replace the police helicopter.
"I am not going to cash in police officers to replace it. I need to find the cash equivalent to maintain the level of service."
He added: "We are very concerned about this helicopter issue.
"I would very much like to have the helicopter, but if there was a choice between having police officers or a helicopter, then I would have police officers."
Wiltshire Police pays the running costs of the helicopter, which is £1.5m a year, while the Wiltshire Air Ambulance Appeal - funded entirely by donations from the public - needs to raise £350,000 a year.
GWAS has been reviewing the future of Wiltshire Air Ambulance for the past 16 months. It is examining whether a shared police and ambulance helicopter is appropriate in Wiltshire or whether an air ambulance with a doctor and paramedics on board would be better. GWAS has been unable to say when a decision would be made.
Last week, a GWAS spokeswoman said: "We have routine meetings with all our partner organisations. The meeting held on April 24 was one such meeting with Wiltshire Police.
"We are in ongoing discussions about the future options for providing air ambulance cover for the people of Wiltshire. No decisions have been made.
"The Wiltshire Air Ambulance trustees (which is the board of GWAS) remain committed to providing air ambulance cover for the people of Wiltshire.
"Wiltshire Air Ambulance Appeal is a restricted fund within the Great Western Ambulance Service charity so none of these funds are being used by Great Western Ambulance Service charity.
"The Wiltshire Air Ambulance fund can only be used to provide air cover in Wiltshire."
Wiltshire's chief constable insisted that a helicopter was vital to the force's operations such as helping in searches, assisting in high-speed police chases, and also in surveillance.
"The helicopter makes high risk operations much safer," added Mr Moore.
"They are brilliant for surveillance when you are covering vast tracts of land. A police helicopter is a highly desirable thing to have and I will be very sorry if we are unable to replace it."
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Meldrews Dad, Wroughton says...
9:41am Mon 19 May 08
As Wiltshire police frequently use the helicopter to hound slightly speeding motoirists I don't see why I should fund such harrassment.
If the police want a helicopter let them pay for it as a separate entity. GWAS will only use there machine for medical emergencies and this I will support.
In flying times 30 miles is nothing, and one presumes GWAS will insist on a better launch time than the police helicopter achieves.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
9:46am Mon 19 May 08
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
10:04am Mon 19 May 08
Meldrews Dad wrote:I thought the understanding is that medical flights will take presidence over the police flights.
I have always shied away from giving money to the air ambulance; not because I don't support it but because it is money being used to fund a POLICE helicopter. As Wiltshire police frequently use the helicopter to hound slightly speeding motoirists I don't see why I should fund such harrassment. If the police want a helicopter let them pay for it as a separate entity. GWAS will only use there machine for medical emergencies and this I will support. In flying times 30 miles is nothing, and one presumes GWAS will insist on a better launch time than the police helicopter achieves.
Taxpayer, As I've said in the provious thread, have you made a complaint to the Environmental Health Dept of SBC? As whinging on here will not get things done.
As for the EU directive that you quoted about quiet zones, police/ambulance helicopters are excluded from it.
Grumpy, Swindon says...
10:19am Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower wrote:Are you a complete moron? Presumably you must live in Penhill where the police helicopter does spend time hovering over 'The Valley'. If you choose to live in a crime ridden ghetto, then you have no cause for complaint. If you are not there by choice then bad luck - just grin and bear it.
anyone seeing that chopper hovering above houses at night should make a complaint. and If no one listens maybe somebody that has had enough will use Lasers and then maybe people will be listened to....
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
10:22am Mon 19 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
10:33am Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
10:41am Mon 19 May 08
That cheesecake thingumajig was fantastic by the way.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
2:28pm Mon 19 May 08
Grumpy wrote:You can continue to presume, however I stick to my point no flying objects (Plane / chopper) over residential areas at night. I presume you are a Moron working nights at Honda so you dont really care about your night sleep.
Taxpower wrote: anyone seeing that chopper hovering above houses at night should make a complaint. and If no one listens maybe somebody that has had enough will use Lasers and then maybe people will be listened to....Are you a complete moron? Presumably you must live in Penhill where the police helicopter does spend time hovering over 'The Valley'. If you choose to live in a crime ridden ghetto, then you have no cause for complaint. If you are not there by choice then bad luck - just grin and bear it.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
2:31pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:Until one plane or chopper crash down on the town and then everybody will say why we didnt ban over residential areas flights.
Try living and working underneath low flight paths from the two RAF bases near Swindon, and tell me you have it hard. A helicopter flying over a few nights a week is nothing.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
2:40pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower wrote:And if you get your way, in time an equivalent number of people will die because the helicopter can't fly at night and then everybody will say "why did we ban flights over residential areas?"
LordBelacqua wrote: Try living and working underneath low flight paths from the two RAF bases near Swindon, and tell me you have it hard. A helicopter flying over a few nights a week is nothing.Until one plane or chopper crash down on the town and then everybody will say why we didnt ban over residential areas flights.
I might add that aircraft appear to have a much better safety record than people ;)
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
2:54pm Mon 19 May 08
Initially from previous posts on this and othe threads, the complaint was that of the noise from the helicopter flying/hovering over your house. I have asked if you have reported this to the Environmental Health Dept of SBC to no avail.
Now, you're saying they are a hazard, are you just against all forms of aviation/transport or just the ones that fly over your house?
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
2:59pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:If Police needs it at night then maybe they could use a Drone! no need for chopper at night in the town am afraid. As for ambulances, well in Urban area car ambulances are faster and safer especially at night. Different story when reaching out to the country side or Motorways. There is NO valid need of a chopper hovering over Swindon, there are alternatives that are better value for money.
Taxpower wrote:And if you get your way, in time an equivalent number of people will die because the helicopter can't fly at night and then everybody will say "why did we ban flights over residential areas?" I might add that aircraft appear to have a much better safety record than people ;)LordBelacqua wrote: Try living and working underneath low flight paths from the two RAF bases near Swindon, and tell me you have it hard. A helicopter flying over a few nights a week is nothing.Until one plane or chopper crash down on the town and then everybody will say why we didnt ban over residential areas flights.
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
3:02pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
3:02pm Mon 19 May 08
DarkAuror wrote:your sense of observation amazes me:
Taxpower, I'm struggling to work out the problem you're having as it appears to be far ranging. Initially from previous posts on this and othe threads, the complaint was that of the noise from the helicopter flying/hovering over your house. I have asked if you have reported this to the Environmental Health Dept of SBC to no avail. Now, you're saying they are a hazard, are you just against all forms of aviation/transport or just the ones that fly over your house?
1. there is no need for aircraft to hover or fly over swindon, you seen the size of the country side in Wiltshire
2. police chopper can be replaced by drone
3. no need for ambulance chopper in urban areas especially at night (lack of landing, cables etc...)
Swindon doesnt need a Chopper!
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:12pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower wrote:A car ambulance (if by car, you mean a First Responder rather than a van ambulance) cannot carry a passenger. Nor can it do 150mph to a crash scene.
LordBelacqua wrote:If Police needs it at night then maybe they could use a Drone! no need for chopper at night in the town am afraid. As for ambulances, well in Urban area car ambulances are faster and safer especially at night. Different story when reaching out to the country side or Motorways. There is NO valid need of a chopper hovering over Swindon, there are alternatives that are better value for money.Taxpower wrote:And if you get your way, in time an equivalent number of people will die because the helicopter can't fly at night and then everybody will say "why did we ban flights over residential areas?" I might add that aircraft appear to have a much better safety record than people ;)LordBelacqua wrote: Try living and working underneath low flight paths from the two RAF bases near Swindon, and tell me you have it hard. A helicopter flying over a few nights a week is nothing.Until one plane or chopper crash down on the town and then everybody will say why we didnt ban over residential areas flights.
Did you actually read some of the incidents that the Air Ambulance was called out for? Several involved transfers to Salisbury or Frenchay where, presumably, they have a) more specialist equipment than GWH, and b) a journey by road would have taken too long and would possibly have made the condition of the patient deteriorate. Several involve request from ground ambulance crews - these people might just have a better idea than you about where an airlift is necessary, yes?
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
3:14pm Mon 19 May 08
DarkAuror wrote:I think you should read a little more and familiarise yourself with some of the hightech kit out there: UVA (Drones)
Ah, a drone and what noise does that make? I thought they were just unmanned flying craft and therefore make a similar amount of noise to a helicopter if they were still hovering your house.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
3:17pm Mon 19 May 08
DarkAuror wrote:There is no need for a chopper over swindon. UVA (Drones) could be used, but then it wouldn't so cool to raise charity money for them.....
Taxpower, I'm struggling to work out the problem you're having as it appears to be far ranging. Initially from previous posts on this and othe threads, the complaint was that of the noise from the helicopter flying/hovering over your house. I have asked if you have reported this to the Environmental Health Dept of SBC to no avail. Now, you're saying they are a hazard, are you just against all forms of aviation/transport or just the ones that fly over your house?
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
3:17pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower wrote:Hmm, Still haven't answered my question? Have you reported the noise nuisance to the Environmental Health Dept at SBC?
DarkAuror wrote: Taxpower, I'm struggling to work out the problem you're having as it appears to be far ranging. Initially from previous posts on this and othe threads, the complaint was that of the noise from the helicopter flying/hovering over your house. I have asked if you have reported this to the Environmental Health Dept of SBC to no avail. Now, you're saying they are a hazard, are you just against all forms of aviation/transport or just the ones that fly over your house?your sense of observation amazes me: 1. there is no need for aircraft to hover or fly over swindon, you seen the size of the country side in Wiltshire 2. police chopper can be replaced by drone 3. no need for ambulance chopper in urban areas especially at night (lack of landing, cables etc...) Swindon doesnt need a Chopper!
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
3:21pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower wrote:Have been reading about UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vechicles) and they don't come cheap either. Interestingly I couldn't find anything about the decibel levels of them as your biggest problem with the helicopter was noise.
DarkAuror wrote: Ah, a drone and what noise does that make? I thought they were just unmanned flying craft and therefore make a similar amount of noise to a helicopter if they were still hovering your house.I think you should read a little more and familiarise yourself with some of the hightech kit out there: UVA (Drones)
Also what happens if one of these crashed in to a house?
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:21pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower wrote:You know that to buy one of those drones would cost a hell of a lot more than it costs them to run that helicopter right? Especially if you're using it for policework, which inevitably means you'll require something that can do 120mph+ for assisting in chases.
DarkAuror wrote: Ah, a drone and what noise does that make? I thought they were just unmanned flying craft and therefore make a similar amount of noise to a helicopter if they were still hovering your house.I think you should read a little more and familiarise yourself with some of the hightech kit out there: UVA (Drones)
The Northrop-Grumman MQ-8B for example, costs about £7.5 million per unit. Add costs for someone to operate it, fix it, etc, including the training to do so and I'd hardly see it as worthwhile considering it only does half the job of a helicopter and crew.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
3:28pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:thats right: try to land a chopper especially by night in a city: Good Luck!
Taxpower wrote:A car ambulance (if by car, you mean a First Responder rather than a van ambulance) cannot carry a passenger. Nor can it do 150mph to a crash scene. Did you actually read some of the incidents that the Air Ambulance was called out for? Several involved transfers to Salisbury or Frenchay where, presumably, they have a) more specialist equipment than GWH, and b) a journey by road would have taken too long and would possibly have made the condition of the patient deteriorate. Several involve request from ground ambulance crews - these people might just have a better idea than you about where an airlift is necessary, yes?LordBelacqua wrote:If Police needs it at night then maybe they could use a Drone! no need for chopper at night in the town am afraid. As for ambulances, well in Urban area car ambulances are faster and safer especially at night. Different story when reaching out to the country side or Motorways. There is NO valid need of a chopper hovering over Swindon, there are alternatives that are better value for money.Taxpower wrote:And if you get your way, in time an equivalent number of people will die because the helicopter can't fly at night and then everybody will say "why did we ban flights over residential areas?" I might add that aircraft appear to have a much better safety record than people ;)LordBelacqua wrote: Try living and working underneath low flight paths from the two RAF bases near Swindon, and tell me you have it hard. A helicopter flying over a few nights a week is nothing.Until one plane or chopper crash down on the town and then everybody will say why we didnt ban over residential areas flights.
lets see: 1 accident in swindon, what will bring the patient to GWH first? Now I admit the air ambulance is a good thing, but in urban areas, it is not making an impact unless there is a need to transfer patient to a specialist unit, but that is done on the GWH strip.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:36pm Mon 19 May 08
thats right: try to land a chopper especially by night in a city: Good Luck!
lets see: 1 accident in swindon, what will bring the patient to GWH first? Now I admit the air ambulance is a good thing, but in urban areas, it is not making an impact unless there is a need to transfer patient to a specialist unit, but that is done on the GWH strip.
Like I said - read the incidents log - evidently they do do it.
And for the second section - they do transfer straight to a specialist hospital on acquiring the patient. READ THE INCIDENT LOG.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
3:39pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:lol the MQ-8B! why not the MQ-1 Predator since you there.
Taxpower wrote:You know that to buy one of those drones would cost a hell of a lot more than it costs them to run that helicopter right? Especially if you're using it for policework, which inevitably means you'll require something that can do 120mph+ for assisting in chases. The Northrop-Grumman MQ-8B for example, costs about £7.5 million per unit. Add costs for someone to operate it, fix it, etc, including the training to do so and I'd hardly see it as worthwhile considering it only does half the job of a helicopter and crew.DarkAuror wrote: Ah, a drone and what noise does that make? I thought they were just unmanned flying craft and therefore make a similar amount of noise to a helicopter if they were still hovering your house.I think you should read a little more and familiarise yourself with some of the hightech kit out there: UVA (Drones)
No need to spend millions and in effect very low overall life cycle costs with the day and night: DRAC or if you like choppers that much the Scorpio
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
3:40pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:Lord B, I don't think he reads these posts. He still hasn't answered my question about if he's reported the noise nuisance to SBC's Environmental Health Dept.
thats right: try to land a chopper especially by night in a city: Good Luck! lets see: 1 accident in swindon, what will bring the patient to GWH first? Now I admit the air ambulance is a good thing, but in urban areas, it is not making an impact unless there is a need to transfer patient to a specialist unit, but that is done on the GWH strip.Like I said - read the incidents log - evidently they do do it. And for the second section - they do transfer straight to a specialist hospital on acquiring the patient. READ THE INCIDENT LOG.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
3:44pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:Yer of Course they land in Towns all the time and straight to the best hospital saving lives all the time. Stop watching films and get real! you have no idea, Air Ambulance is great but over Cities, thats not POSSIBLE!
thats right: try to land a chopper especially by night in a city: Good Luck! lets see: 1 accident in swindon, what will bring the patient to GWH first? Now I admit the air ambulance is a good thing, but in urban areas, it is not making an impact unless there is a need to transfer patient to a specialist unit, but that is done on the GWH strip.Like I said - read the incidents log - evidently they do do it. And for the second section - they do transfer straight to a specialist hospital on acquiring the patient. READ THE INCIDENT LOG.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:44pm Mon 19 May 08
lol the MQ-8B! why not the MQ-1 Predator since you there.
No need to spend millions and in effect very low overall life cycle costs with the day and night: DRAC or if you like choppers that much the Scorpio
You're mixing up "replace" with "downgrade". The current helicopter does 150mph for a reason - in it's police role, it'll inevitably find itself chasing a car or two. 35kts does not cut a police chase - what's the point of an eye in the sky when it's outpaced by the eyes on the ground?
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:46pm Mon 19 May 08
Yer of Course they land in Towns all the time and straight to the best hospital saving lives all the time. Stop watching films and get real! you have no idea, Air Ambulance is great but over Cities, thats not POSSIBLE!
Not watching films - have you ever considered what the air ambulance in London does 24hrs a day? Or perhaps you're just not even attempting to make a logical argument anymore by looking at the information I'm giving you, and are just clutching at straws to avoid the farce your argument is.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
3:50pm Mon 19 May 08
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
3:52pm Mon 19 May 08
Have you reported the helicopter noise nuisance to SBC's Environmental Health Dept?
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:55pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower wrote:A UAV doing little more than 30mph laden with a thermo-optic camera trying to catch a criminal belting at 90mph down a country lane - how very effective.
You make me laugh, an helicopter doing 150mph to be the eye in the sky. do you realise what a load of rubbish you talking? try to look for a ground target doing 150mph in the air, you obviously never flew! I tell you what have the chopper if thats makes you happy and enjoy the movies.LOL
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:00pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:there is no Need to have a chopper in Swindon, am sorry to hurt your feelings.
Taxpower wrote: You make me laugh, an helicopter doing 150mph to be the eye in the sky. do you realise what a load of rubbish you talking? try to look for a ground target doing 150mph in the air, you obviously never flew! I tell you what have the chopper if thats makes you happy and enjoy the movies.LOLA UAV doing little more than 30mph laden with a thermo-optic camera trying to catch a criminal belting at 90mph down a country lane - how very effective.
I dont care about the country lane or the M4 etc.....there is no need to use a loud and big and expensive chopper over swindon especially at night. You will not sell this argument to me
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:04pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:you are taking yourself too seriously, I can demonstrate that your point of keeping an expensive chopper in Swindon is not necessary. Stop being a bully Labour (ish) partisan and just realise that a UAV could do the job just as well in terms of policing and save Swindonians money.
Yer of Course they land in Towns all the time and straight to the best hospital saving lives all the time. Stop watching films and get real! you have no idea, Air Ambulance is great but over Cities, thats not POSSIBLE!Not watching films - have you ever considered what the air ambulance in London does 24hrs a day? Or perhaps you're just not even attempting to make a logical argument anymore by looking at the information I'm giving you, and are just clutching at straws to avoid the farce your argument is.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:06pm Mon 19 May 08
there is no Need to have a chopper in Swindon, am sorry to hurt your feelings.
I dont care about the country lane or the M4 etc.....there is no need to use a loud and big and expensive chopper over swindon especially at night. You will not sell this argument to me
At least I have an argument - sorry to burst your bubble, but there is plenty of need to have a helicopter serving Swindon and Wiltshire - it isn't just Swindon, remember (the clue is in the name: Wiltshire Air Ambulance). Considering the area it covers I do confess to wondering just how often it hovers over your house considering the area it has to cover.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:09pm Mon 19 May 08
you are taking yourself too seriously, I can demonstrate that your point of keeping an expensive chopper in Swindon is not necessary. Stop being a bully Labour (ish) partisan and just realise that a UAV could do the job just as well in terms of policing and save Swindonians money.
No, it couldn't, as you'd then require a helicopter and a UAV at additional cost for personnel, parts and training.
A budget UAV like the scorpio just doesn't compare to the helicopter - slow, cannot carry a patient (barely has room for the nose camera it's required to carry) - excellent for observing ahead of ground troops...not so great at saving the life of an RTA victim or catching a criminal.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:18pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:stop copy and paste and start thinking for yourself.
you are taking yourself too seriously, I can demonstrate that your point of keeping an expensive chopper in Swindon is not necessary. Stop being a bully Labour (ish) partisan and just realise that a UAV could do the job just as well in terms of policing and save Swindonians money.No, it couldn't, as you'd then require a helicopter and a UAV at additional cost for personnel, parts and training. A budget UAV like the scorpio just doesn't compare to the helicopter - slow, cannot carry a patient (barely has room for the nose camera it's required to carry) - excellent for observing ahead of ground troops...not so great at saving the life of an RTA victim or catching a criminal.
UAV exists for few good reasons: cheaper, reliable, endurance. Believe me if it wasnt for human limitation all planes by now would be UAVs!
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:22pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:believe me I hear often enough.....in Swindon wiltshire
there is no Need to have a chopper in Swindon, am sorry to hurt your feelings. I dont care about the country lane or the M4 etc.....there is no need to use a loud and big and expensive chopper over swindon especially at night. You will not sell this argument to meAt least I have an argument - sorry to burst your bubble, but there is plenty of need to have a helicopter serving Swindon and Wiltshire - it isn't just Swindon, remember (the clue is in the name: Wiltshire Air Ambulance). Considering the area it covers I do confess to wondering just how often it hovers over your house considering the area it has to cover.
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
4:25pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:26pm Mon 19 May 08
DarkAuror wrote:am afraid I have too much respect for myself, and I cant lie so I guess I could never be a politician
Taxpower, Are you a politician in disguise? Have you reported the helicopter noise nuisance to SBC's Environmental Health Dept?
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:29pm Mon 19 May 08
stop copy and paste and start thinking for yourself.
UAV exists for few good reasons: cheaper, reliable, endurance. Believe me if it wasnt for human limitation all planes by now would be UAVs!
There's a reason UAV's were developed for war zones and not for civilian use...oh, and copy-pasting is perfectly acceptable in an argument that uses verifiable sources. It's hardly necessary to criticise when I've actually gone to the trouble of refuting your points using verifiable facts rather than baseless assertations based on a night or two of discomfort a week.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:29pm Mon 19 May 08
DarkAuror wrote:The What? SBC's Environmental Health Dept, thats right, because you are one of those that think the council do anything for Swindonians? which planet do you live on?
Hmm, Taxpower still hasn't answered to my question. Has he reported the noise nuisance of the helicopter to SBC's Environmental Health Dept. They have a legal duty to investigate all claims of noise nuisance.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:33pm Mon 19 May 08
blobba, swindon says...
4:36pm Mon 19 May 08
uav's are at their best when circling a large area providing a heads up for ground forces how the hell is that gonna help ambulance or police forces is it going to predict an accident or robbery,
its field of view is actually quite limited and as you have been told the cost of just obtaining 1 would run the air ambulance for a good 5 years or more.
maybe ask the council for an exchange out of the valley to the top of the hill,
ooops silly me you cant because nobody wants to move to the valley
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:37pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:shame because if there was a UAV in the air all the time, it could be disuasive and imagine fitting it with a speed camera?? wow all the money Mr Brown would make
Oh, and I might add - the operational requirements of the Air Ambulance/Police helicopter aren't based around endurance, which is the main selling point of a UAV - it's short trip requiring a high-speed vehicle. The Air Ambulance has no need to think about human endurance because it's not in the air for 24hours at a time.
DarkAuror, Swindon says...
4:38pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower wrote:So you're quite happy to whinge about it on a public forum but don't want to do anything constructive to solve your problem (laser pens shone in pilot's eye is a very constructive suggestion ):0)
DarkAuror wrote: Hmm, Taxpower still hasn't answered to my question. Has he reported the noise nuisance of the helicopter to SBC's Environmental Health Dept. They have a legal duty to investigate all claims of noise nuisance.The What? SBC's Environmental Health Dept, thats right, because you are one of those that think the council do anything for Swindonians? which planet do you live on?
I'm sorry but your arguments don't mean much if you're not prepare to do something about it.
The Environmental Health is the first step to helping your problem.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:40pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower wrote:But that's not the remit of the police helicopter, is it? You're diverging from the point again, TP.
LordBelacqua wrote: Oh, and I might add - the operational requirements of the Air Ambulance/Police helicopter aren't based around endurance, which is the main selling point of a UAV - it's short trip requiring a high-speed vehicle. The Air Ambulance has no need to think about human endurance because it's not in the air for 24hours at a time.shame because if there was a UAV in the air all the time, it could be disuasive and imagine fitting it with a speed camera?? wow all the money Mr Brown would make
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:43pm Mon 19 May 08
blobba wrote:Thanks god guys like you dont work in my field or we would all be lving in mud huts today. Thats right, continue watching the program and stick to your good old banger.
hes been watching to much future weapons on discovery channel. uav's are at their best when circling a large area providing a heads up for ground forces how the hell is that gonna help ambulance or police forces is it going to predict an accident or robbery, its field of view is actually quite limited and as you have been told the cost of just obtaining 1 would run the air ambulance for a good 5 years or more. maybe ask the council for an exchange out of the valley to the top of the hill, ooops silly me you cant because nobody wants to move to the valley
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:45pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:am not diverging! I do not want this chopper flying at night because it is Police and Policing could be done better than with having an expensive, loud chopper.
Taxpower wrote:But that's not the remit of the police helicopter, is it? You're diverging from the point again, TP.LordBelacqua wrote: Oh, and I might add - the operational requirements of the Air Ambulance/Police helicopter aren't based around endurance, which is the main selling point of a UAV - it's short trip requiring a high-speed vehicle. The Air Ambulance has no need to think about human endurance because it's not in the air for 24hours at a time.shame because if there was a UAV in the air all the time, it could be disuasive and imagine fitting it with a speed camera?? wow all the money Mr Brown would make
blobba, swindon says...
4:46pm Mon 19 May 08
isnt it time you went off to bhavs stores for another 6 pack and bottle of lambrini
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:47pm Mon 19 May 08
Thanks god guys like you dont work in my field or we would all be lving in mud huts today. Thats right, continue watching the program and stick to your good old banger.
And what exactly is your field that makes you such an expert on the inefficiency of the police helicopter? You don't manage budgets by any chance? Or maybe you work for EADS ;)
blobba, swindon says...
4:48pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:49pm Mon 19 May 08
am not diverging! I do not want this chopper flying at night because it is Police and Policing could be done better than with having an expensive, loud chopper.
You'd rather have an expensive, loud UAV that takes 3 times as long to go over your house?
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:49pm Mon 19 May 08
blobba wrote:Thats right dude, flash out the money like a chav, you can take a guy from the trailer but you can never take the trailer from the guy, you are perfect illustration. Please dont answer back, you are boring
my mud hut far out values your bomb shelter in the valley. isnt it time you went off to bhavs stores for another 6 pack and bottle of lambrini
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:51pm Mon 19 May 08
blobba wrote:keep digging......
i think the real reason your so against this is because it is actually effective at catching you and your mates up to no good
blobba, swindon says...
4:52pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:56pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:I think that you should just try to figure out why there is an increase in research and application into UAVs. The Police like the Chopper to cover up their lack of numbers and lack of tactical skills when it comes drive and arrest. I believe in Police on the ground, not in the air.
Thanks god guys like you dont work in my field or we would all be lving in mud huts today. Thats right, continue watching the program and stick to your good old banger.And what exactly is your field that makes you such an expert on the inefficiency of the police helicopter? You don't manage budgets by any chance? Or maybe you work for EADS ;)
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
4:59pm Mon 19 May 08
blobba wrote:dont give yourself more talents than you have. you are pretty pathetic regurgitating years of social dogma. Grow up or start reading books.
im boring or am i just describing you perfectly.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
5:02pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:maybe you can explain the benefit of Static flight to me?
am not diverging! I do not want this chopper flying at night because it is Police and Policing could be done better than with having an expensive, loud chopper.You'd rather have an expensive, loud UAV that takes 3 times as long to go over your house?
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
5:03pm Mon 19 May 08
I think that you should just try to figure out why there is an increase in research and application into UAVs. The Police like the Chopper to cover up their lack of numbers and lack of tactical skills when it comes drive and arrest. I believe in Police on the ground, not in the air.
So why do you also believe we should have no police, rather army troops on the ground? Oh - and no traffic officers, which would basically mean anyone caught driving dangerously or failing to stop would get away.
One would almost think you wanted to increase crime!
blobba, swindon says...
5:05pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower wrote:lol im pathetic aswell as boring atleast i dont constantly spawn crap on a newpaper comments article complaining of the noise of bloody police helicopter and saying i dislike the helicopter coz its police any law abiding citizen wouldnt actually care as they know the police are up there or out there catching criminals.
LordBelacqua wrote:am not diverging! I do not want this chopper flying at night because it is Police and Policing could be done better than with having an expensive, loud chopper.Taxpower wrote:But that's not the remit of the police helicopter, is it? You're diverging from the point again, TP.LordBelacqua wrote: Oh, and I might add - the operational requirements of the Air Ambulance/Police helicopter aren't based around endurance, which is the main selling point of a UAV - it's short trip requiring a high-speed vehicle. The Air Ambulance has no need to think about human endurance because it's not in the air for 24hours at a time.shame because if there was a UAV in the air all the time, it could be disuasive and imagine fitting it with a speed camera?? wow all the money Mr Brown would make
as for your post on another topic the army are the only heroes well shows your hooked on something
i guess you never heard of a police officer paramedic or fireman saving a life huh.
they all have a role to play and trust me you wouldnt like martial law if you dislike THE law
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
5:05pm Mon 19 May 08
maybe you can explain the benefit of Static flight to me?
You know it's an air ambulance right?
It doesn't take a genius to work out that VTOL can land in a smaller space than conventional aircraft.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
5:06pm Mon 19 May 08
DarkAuror wrote:much less damage! less fuel, less mass, and parachute deployment
Taxpower wrote:Have been reading about UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vechicles) and they don't come cheap either. Interestingly I couldn't find anything about the decibel levels of them as your biggest problem with the helicopter was noise. Also what happens if one of these crashed in to a house?DarkAuror wrote: Ah, a drone and what noise does that make? I thought they were just unmanned flying craft and therefore make a similar amount of noise to a helicopter if they were still hovering your house.I think you should read a little more and familiarise yourself with some of the hightech kit out there: UVA (Drones)
as for the noise, since it so light I dont need to explain the law of gravity and the amount of power needed to be generated? or do I?
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
5:11pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:My point was that at the contrary to Air Ambulance, the Police shopper doesnt need to be fast. and therefore there is no need for it at night in Swindon, it could be done by a UAV. Now again, I am not again the Air Ambulance, just don't want it flying over urban populated area at night!
maybe you can explain the benefit of Static flight to me?You know it's an air ambulance right? It doesn't take a genius to work out that VTOL can land in a smaller space than conventional aircraft.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
5:17pm Mon 19 May 08
blobba wrote:Yes I dislike the Police as much as I dislike the Politicians. And let me say, that I am not the only one believing we pay our taxes to fund penpushers of all sorts. I don't dislike the Law, I just like it to be applied to the letter and whatever the race, age, religion, sex and wealth, morons like you think they above it, and Id like to change that fact.
Taxpower wrote:lol im pathetic aswell as boring atleast i dont constantly spawn crap on a newpaper comments article complaining of the noise of bloody police helicopter and saying i dislike the helicopter coz its police any law abiding citizen wouldnt actually care as they know the police are up there or out there catching criminals. as for your post on another topic the army are the only heroes well shows your hooked on something i guess you never heard of a police officer paramedic or fireman saving a life huh. they all have a role to play and trust me you wouldnt like martial law if you dislike THE lawLordBelacqua wrote:am not diverging! I do not want this chopper flying at night because it is Police and Policing could be done better than with having an expensive, loud chopper.Taxpower wrote:But that's not the remit of the police helicopter, is it? You're diverging from the point again, TP.LordBelacqua wrote: Oh, and I might add - the operational requirements of the Air Ambulance/Police helicopter aren't based around endurance, which is the main selling point of a UAV - it's short trip requiring a high-speed vehicle. The Air Ambulance has no need to think about human endurance because it's not in the air for 24hours at a time.shame because if there was a UAV in the air all the time, it could be disuasive and imagine fitting it with a speed camera?? wow all the money Mr Brown would make
blobba, swindon says...
5:18pm Mon 19 May 08
just noise isnt really a good reason
buy yourself some ear plugs if its just noise
and well your at it maybe point out to the raf that your unhappy with the c-130s flying over as they are far louder than a chopper,
and remember the chopper only has a flight time of around 30 mins once in the sky over swindon before needing refueling.
blobba, swindon says...
5:23pm Mon 19 May 08
i dont think im above it and i actually agree the law needs to apply to all regardless of race age religion.
and i also agree taxes pay for a bunch of toffee nosed pen pushers,
i actually dont have a very good relationship with the police mainly from many moons ago but these days im on the straight and narrow and i do abide by the law and i dont mind the noise regardless of how often its around as i know its probably going to end in 1 less criminal in my area.
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
5:24pm Mon 19 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:maybe options available like the Gendarmerie in France or the Guardia in Spain that could take both military and civilians duties. Decreasing the Police in favour or this British Military Police would prove a tough approach to criminals and also being a flexible instrument of national defence
I think that you should just try to figure out why there is an increase in research and application into UAVs. The Police like the Chopper to cover up their lack of numbers and lack of tactical skills when it comes drive and arrest. I believe in Police on the ground, not in the air.So why do you also believe we should have no police, rather army troops on the ground? Oh - and no traffic officers, which would basically mean anyone caught driving dangerously or failing to stop would get away. One would almost think you wanted to increase crime!
blobba, swindon says...
5:28pm Mon 19 May 08
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
5:30pm Mon 19 May 08
blobba wrote:Thats right, the damned Hercules do my head in but I can live with it, it passes over in few seconds not long enough to wake me up unlike a 15-20 min static flight over my back garden. I wish I was the owner of the air space above my house, cheers
maybe if you explained why your dont want it flying over urban areas at night people may understand a bit more. just noise isnt really a good reason buy yourself some ear plugs if its just noise and well your at it maybe point out to the raf that your unhappy with the c-130s flying over as they are far louder than a chopper, and remember the chopper only has a flight time of around 30 mins once in the sky over swindon before needing refueling.
blobba, swindon says...
5:35pm Mon 19 May 08
would you not rather have it there preventing that.
or would you rather have a dog handler and his dog shouting and barking and then a further 5 coppers nosing over your fences.
i know what i would prefer
willowmoon, swindon says...
5:45pm Mon 19 May 08
blobba, swindon says...
5:45pm Mon 19 May 08
willowmoon wrote:exactly.
its pretty mean spirited to complain about helicopter noise at night when it is the police or air ambulance, either way they are protecting public safety or dealing with a medical emergency.
Jacko, swindon area says...
6:18pm Mon 19 May 08
blobba wrote:No Not Exactly.
willowmoon wrote: its pretty mean spirited to complain about helicopter noise at night when it is the police or air ambulance, either way they are protecting public safety or dealing with a medical emergency.exactly.
Check your self, police dont get hardly any results with the borrowed helicopter.
It just gives a gifted few something to do and costs a fortune. It,s noisey, and even if you complain, they allways say it,s an emergency, which it,s not.
coops, Swindon says...
7:53pm Mon 19 May 08
Meldrews Dad wrote:The helicopter is a vital tool in the fight against crime, and saving lives. Moving it to Bristol, and only flying during the day will not help us at GWH in saving lives. It will only give us even more bad press.
I have always shied away from giving money to the air ambulance; not because I don't support it but because it is money being used to fund a POLICE helicopter. As Wiltshire police frequently use the helicopter to hound slightly speeding motoirists I don't see why I should fund such harrassment. If the police want a helicopter let them pay for it as a separate entity. GWAS will only use there machine for medical emergencies and this I will support. In flying times 30 miles is nothing, and one presumes GWAS will insist on a better launch time than the police helicopter achieves.
helpus, Swindon says...
8:19pm Mon 19 May 08
Value for money for those carried in it and their families and the hospital staff who can start to do their jobs that much quicker with the help of the fast response of the helicopter, I just hope if GWAS have their own helicopter no-one in Wiltshire ever needs it because it will always be unavailable to us as they will be using it in Bristol and the surrounding areas. Work it out this helicopter is a JOINT helicopter and as such fantastic value for money.
Jacko, swindon area says...
9:02pm Mon 19 May 08
31.6 Million would buy severall ambulances and 24hr crews.
Nice toys if you can afford it.
I cant.
I can also remeber the police selling their chopper and renting one, saying this was the most cost effective way, and the new chopper would be quieter, thats a joke.
I was thinking of gettin a noise abbatment order taken out.
Let the police get their own and we,ll suport the ambulance service. But we cant afford the real cost of chasing joyrider(thieves).
Jacko, swindon area says...
9:15pm Mon 19 May 08
This practice has exacerbated the level of noise disturbance for these residents.
The above was taken from a .Gov report.
Jacko, swindon area says...
9:20pm Mon 19 May 08
Jacko, swindon area says...
9:29pm Mon 19 May 08
Financial saving,
Increased money for other policing functions,
Redeployment of 7 officers to front-line policing.
No requirement for part time observers
Reallocation of office space.
AND it doesnt matter how much we debate it here, they,ll do whatever they want with our money.
Can anyone point to me the real arreast total for this quango
Jacko, swindon area says...
9:31pm Mon 19 May 08
coops wrote:How does this help you??
Meldrews Dad wrote: I have always shied away from giving money to the air ambulance; not because I don't support it but because it is money being used to fund a POLICE helicopter. As Wiltshire police frequently use the helicopter to hound slightly speeding motoirists I don't see why I should fund such harrassment. If the police want a helicopter let them pay for it as a separate entity. GWAS will only use there machine for medical emergencies and this I will support. In flying times 30 miles is nothing, and one presumes GWAS will insist on a better launch time than the police helicopter achieves.The helicopter is a vital tool in the fight against crime, and saving lives. Moving it to Bristol, and only flying during the day will not help us at GWH in saving lives. It will only give us even more bad press.
Get the hospital clean and youll save even more lives.
Just for the price of soap and water.
Swindon Resident, Swindon, Wiltshire says...
9:38am Tue 20 May 08
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
10:29am Tue 20 May 08
31.6 Million would buy severall ambulances and 24hr crews.
Source for that figure please. I'm pretty **** sure it's not one year's running cost for the air ambulance as the helicopter they use doesn't cost that much to buy.
I can also remeber the police selling their chopper and renting one, saying this was the most cost effective way, and the new chopper would be quieter, thats a joke.
It probably is - they get a lease on the helicopter, so that when it reaches the end of it's operating life, they'll get a replacement from McD-D, as part of the lease. It's also easier to budget.
McD-D themselves state that the helicopter is quieter owing to the lack of a rear rotor:
http://www.mdhelicop
ters.com/products.ph
p?id=NOTAR
Let the police get their own and we,ll suport the ambulance service. But we cant afford the real cost of chasing joyrider(thieves).
So you're advocating using two helicopters where one is quite sufficient?
We have also been made aware of the concerns expressed by local residents about helicopters being held over some areas of Swindon.
This practice has exacerbated the level of noise disturbance for these residents.
The above was taken from a .Gov report.
Source please, not just "a .gov report".
Number two, your quote says "helicopters", and does not suggest that it is the police helicopter/air ambulance. There are other airfields near Swindon - Kemble, the two RAF bases, Wroughton - it's not exactly unlikely to guess that with four airfields nearby, we may have more than 1 helicopter around Swindon.
Financial saving,
Increased money for other policing functions,
Redeployment of 7 officers to front-line policing.
No requirement for part time observers
Reallocation of office space.
Source please. Again, police cars can't do 150mph, and the helicopter is also used as an ambulance - take away police funding, you also happen to lose a 150mph ambulance that's capable of making immediate transfers to specialist facilities without risking patients' lives by travelling by road.
How does this help you??
Get the hospital clean and youll save even more lives.
Just for the price of soap and water.
That doesn't require any increase in budget at all - why should we get rid of the ambulance for a cleaner hospital - would you support ridding us of all ground ambulances if it made hospitals cleaner?
willowmoon, swindon says...
12:31pm Tue 20 May 08
Swindon Resident wrote:absolutely!
Next time any of you moaners has the misfortune to have yourself, a loved-one or a friend seriously injured - day or night - that requires immediate transfer to a specialist unit - what will you say if the Air Ambulance is not available for that life-saving airlift....?? Mmm - life or death - I know which I'd choose...
willowmoon, swindon says...
12:33pm Tue 20 May 08
coops, Swindon says...
7:39pm Tue 20 May 08
Jacko wrote:Our hospital is very clean thanks.....and working in the acute area if GWH (ie A+E), the helicopter is a vital tool. I hope you or one of you're relatives never need quick transport to hospital. I'm sure you will have somthing to moan about then.
coops wrote:How does this help you?? Get the hospital clean and youll save even more lives. Just for the price of soap and water.Meldrews Dad wrote: I have always shied away from giving money to the air ambulance; not because I don't support it but because it is money being used to fund a POLICE helicopter. As Wiltshire police frequently use the helicopter to hound slightly speeding motoirists I don't see why I should fund such harrassment. If the police want a helicopter let them pay for it as a separate entity. GWAS will only use there machine for medical emergencies and this I will support. In flying times 30 miles is nothing, and one presumes GWAS will insist on a better launch time than the police helicopter achieves.The helicopter is a vital tool in the fight against crime, and saving lives. Moving it to Bristol, and only flying during the day will not help us at GWH in saving lives. It will only give us even more bad press.
Iceman, Swindon says...
9:26pm Tue 20 May 08
1.The Wiltshire police have never owned an aircraft it has always been provided under a P.F.I agreement.
2. There are only 4 police officers on the unit and not 7
3. There are no 'part time' observers
Taxpower your comments on the use of UAV's have no basis on reality. The Civil Aviation Authority have not licensed them for any form of civil use in this country and are unlikely to do so because there is too much risk of conflict with other aircraft.
MrRandom, on your PC says...
11:24am Wed 21 May 08
Wiltshire's air ambulance
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Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
7:27am Mon 19 May 08