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MPs vote to reject ban on hybrid embryos
9:44pm Monday 19th May 2008
Comments (44)A cross-party bid to ban the use of hybrid human-animal embryos for scientific research was rejected by MPs last night.
MPs voted 336 to 176, majority 160, against the move led by Tory former minister Edward Leigh.
The Commons then rejected a cross-party bid to ban the use of so called "true hybrids" using the sex cells of a human and an animal. Voting was 286 to 223, majority 63.
It was the first in a series of critical votes on emotive issues in committee stage debate on the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill - the biggest shake-up of law in this area for 20 years.
Mr Leigh said the use of "admixed" embryos, using genetic material from both humans and animals, would cross an "entirely new ethical boundary," and turn the UK into a scientific "rogue state".
The embryos created would have to be destroyed after 14 days, but scientists hope stem cells can be harvested and used to create brain, skin, heart and other tissue for treating diseases.
Labour MP Chris Bryant, a former Anglican curate, compared Mr Leigh's arguments to those used by church leaders against the smallpox vaccine. He said: "They were wrong and I think you are wrong today."
With MPs on all sides granted a free vote, the impassioned debate cut across party lines. Three Roman Catholic Cabinet ministers - Defence Secretary Des Browne, Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly and Welsh Secretary Paul Murphy - voted in favour of the unsuccessful attempt to ban hybrids.
The majority of the shadow cabinet - including shadow foreign secretary William Hague and shadow home secretary David Davis - also backed the ban, even though Tory leader David Cameron voted against.
Your Say YourSwindon Advertiser
MOONRAKER, Looking over the pool says...
1:03am Tue 20 May 08
SpeakUp, Swindon says...
2:25am Tue 20 May 08
MOONRAKER wrote:But it's an horrific abuse of our scientific know-how. Human life is special and precious and we should not meddle to this extent.
Experiments like this have been going on for years and years - if it wasn't for the scientists of this world I dread to think where we might be ......
malkym, says...
7:36am Tue 20 May 08
SpeakUp wrote:Cobblers! SpeakUp!! so you dont want scientists to possibly find an aid to treating such diseases as Parkinson's & Alzheimers then? Maybe when your hands are shaking uncontrollably and you can't remember your name you'll think differently! You wrote-> Human life is special and precious and we should not meddle to this extentExactly it is which is why we should do as much as possible to save lives!
MOONRAKER wrote: Experiments like this have been going on for years and years - if it wasn't for the scientists of this world I dread to think where we might be ......But it's an horrific abuse of our scientific know-how. Human life is special and precious and we should not meddle to this extent.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
8:06am Tue 20 May 08
dc, swindon says...
8:26am Tue 20 May 08
did anyone see dispatches last night? most frightening program i have ever seen.
Frontier(s), says...
8:29am Tue 20 May 08
Good to see the government just lose 90% of the UK Roman Catholic vote though :)
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
8:34am Tue 20 May 08
Roll on with the testing I say.
PaulD, says...
9:22am Tue 20 May 08
exactly! And what about pig insulin. Was it immoral to use that? Of course not.
The double standards of the Imaginary Friend brigade astound me. If something is "against nature", then how are we, the human race, capable of doing it? Are we not natural beings?
It was only in the last few years that the Catholic Church apologised for its persecution of Galileo for suggesting that the Earth orbited the Sun.
Nobody is suggesting that science should be allowed to continue unregulated and unmonitored, but this doesn't mean that Chimera's are going to be prowling the streets anytime soon
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
9:27am Tue 20 May 08
but this doesn't mean that Chimera's are going to be prowling the streets anytime soon
I wish. A pet Chimera would be so awesome.
Robin Harris, Swindon says...
9:57am Tue 20 May 08
It is pure speculation that human animal embryo science will benefit us. Push the boundaries by all means but don't claim benefits until they are known.
dc, swindon says...
10:00am Tue 20 May 08
Thats why its called research.
If we were sure of the results without any scientific method then it would be called religion.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
10:21am Tue 20 May 08
Robin Harris wrote:So we shouldn't allow the research because we don't know if it will give us benefits?
Many talk about cures for illnesses but nobody knows if this science will provide them. It is pure speculation that human animal embryo science will benefit us. Push the boundaries by all means but don't claim benefits until they are known.
Robin Harris, Swindon says...
10:30am Tue 20 May 08
It is up to individuals to believe that or not, religion doesn't come into it.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
10:32am Tue 20 May 08
Robin Harris wrote:It's pure speculation whether any research will ever produce anything of benefit. Even if it doesnt't, the potential alone for it's benefit makes it worth allowing.
As I said before. It is pure speculation that this type of research will be of benefit. It is up to individuals to believe that or not, religion doesn't come into it.
Robin Harris, Swindon says...
10:36am Tue 20 May 08
I have my views you have yours. Grow up and comment on the article.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
10:41am Tue 20 May 08
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
10:41am Tue 20 May 08
Robin Harris wrote:Wait, so we're not allowed to question why you believe what you believe?
To those idiots who comment on my posts. I have my views you have yours. Grow up and comment on the article.
So, hypothetically, you wouldn't question me if I were to announce that you were a pathetic dogmatic anti-progressionist? Hypothetically of course, I'm sure you do have your reasons for your views - but isn't it rather silly to put them on a public forum and then complain that people comment on them?
Robin Harris, Swindon says...
10:42am Tue 20 May 08
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
10:45am Tue 20 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:Yet the research itself has led to the effective extinction of smallpox in the wild, and has saved millions of lives by sparking more research into vaccination as a field of its own! As for not being natural: heart transplants, aspirin, neurosurgery...
Lord B have you ever read the history of the small pox vaccine. It is rumoured that the vaccine killed more people than the disease.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
10:50am Tue 20 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
10:57am Tue 20 May 08
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
11:00am Tue 20 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:How does it have to be more of a risk?
There is simply no evidence as yet that cross genetics is any more effective than human genetics, by doing this it has to be more of a risk, for no apparent value.
How is it a risk at all?
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
11:02am Tue 20 May 08
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
11:07am Tue 20 May 08
dc, swindon says...
11:10am Tue 20 May 08
Also called people children and idiots for daring to reply to your posts makes you seem to also not understand the concept of a forum
Robin Harris, Swindon says...
11:16am Tue 20 May 08
As I said before you have your views and I have mine.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
11:21am Tue 20 May 08
Robin Harris wrote:Well, it is a public forum. Also, if we can encourage other people to see the potential benefits of this research, then why not?
dc. I understand what a forum is but this is a comments section. Apart from your first post all you and lordb do is comment on other peoples views. As I said before you have your views and I have mine.
It's almost religious the way you claim we're not allowed to question your views - I welcome people to question what I believe, in the hope that maybe I can learn something through debating. It also helps to look at it through another person's viewpoint - for example, I can see RFM's point that yes, it does appear to be against nature, but the embryos themselves are terminated at 14 days - and even then the animal-supplemented ones (with 0.1% animal DNA as opposed to 100% human DNA in an animal cell - which, coincidentally, is pretty much the same as a humans) have no guarantee of coming to term even if we allowed them to. The true hybrid embryos (50/50 human/animal) have even less chance of doing so.
Peeved, Swindon says...
11:36am Tue 20 May 08
emmylou83, Stratton says...
11:37am Tue 20 May 08
dc. I understand what a forum is but this is a comments section. Apart from your first post all you and lordb do is comment on other peoples views.
Ummm as do most people seeing as though only a handfull of people commetn on here the adver wouldn't get alot of comments if we all only commented once.
I personally think this can only be a good thing esp if it can help people with whatever findings they come across
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
11:40am Tue 20 May 08
Peeved wrote:Well, it's not a moral debate - it's a potential benefits one. I'm disgusted at those that went against it because of "my God's unelected representatives on Earth say that he wouldn't approve, so I'm voting for the ban". Morality doesn't come into research - it comes into it's application. Just because you think it's icky is no reason to vote against it!
Just a quickie... according to the Daily Mail who have a list of who voted which way.... Willing Wills and B"anne"d Wagon Snelgrove both voted against the ban! I just wonder if they voted on either the moral ground or the "we luv Gordon" ground?
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
12:17pm Tue 20 May 08
Robin Harris, Swindon says...
12:22pm Tue 20 May 08
This is such an emotive subject that the majority probably don't have an opinion and look to others for guidance. Unfortunately Gordon Brown declared his support for this research before the vote which I'm sure persuaded many to follow.
The scientists amongst us obviously support the research but the moralists say it is a step too farand question its validity.
I can see the benefits it may offer but question the emotive hype of what illnesses it may cure. Do they want to do it simply because they can?
Taxpower, Swinetown says...
12:33pm Tue 20 May 08
LordBelacqua wrote:for once I agree with you, if science had to be limited by social / moral / religious rules, we would all be living in mud huts
Peeved wrote: Just a quickie... according to the Daily Mail who have a list of who voted which way.... Willing Wills and B"anne"d Wagon Snelgrove both voted against the ban! I just wonder if they voted on either the moral ground or the "we luv Gordon" ground?Well, it's not a moral debate - it's a potential benefits one. I'm disgusted at those that went against it because of "my God's unelected representatives on Earth say that he wouldn't approve, so I'm voting for the ban". Morality doesn't come into research - it comes into it's application. Just because you think it's icky is no reason to vote against it!
Al Smith, Swindon, UK says...
1:06pm Tue 20 May 08
To those that strongly oppose it, ever considered becoming a Christian Scientist? As I understand it they believe all medical intervention is wrong and against God's will. All you get is them praying that you get better.
Terence, Swindon says...
3:32pm Tue 20 May 08
Other posters are quite correct in saying this is a discussion forum, I believe it has always been so and the site even offers the possibility to 'Quote' other posts which supports this view.
Paul Andkim, west swindon says...
4:00pm Tue 20 May 08
Grumpy, Swindon says...
4:53pm Tue 20 May 08
Robin Harris wrote:People on council estates and third world countries have them in their millions apparently!
Children!!!! Who'd have them.
Frontier(s), says...
6:16pm Tue 20 May 08
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:RFM, I really don't know where you get those figures from.
So which way did our 2 MP's vote, answers on a post card and no prizes for guessing. Interesting poll going on in Crewe. Over 2000 people have voted in advance of the By-election. 26% Labour, 26% UKIP, 20% Tory. It is said that tonight's vote on abortion in the HoC could seriously affect the Vote in Crewe.
The most current independent polls show the following:
The Independent/ComRes survey puts the Conservatives on 48 per cent, with Labour on 35 per cent and the Liberal Democrats on 12.
The Guardian/ ICM survey put the Tories on 41 per cent, Labour on 27 per cent and the Lib-Dems on 22 per cent.
UKIP are nowhere to be seen.
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
7:10pm Tue 20 May 08
Phil, Swindon says...
8:57pm Tue 20 May 08
Frontier(s), says...
8:48am Wed 21 May 08
Still, your man was quite good on Newsnight last night, unlike the thoroughly objectionable, conniving, smug witch Tamsin Dunwoody. What a horrible woman.
Still, you can always rely on Geoff Hoon to provide the (unintentional) comedy element.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:15pm Wed 21 May 08
Phil wrote:O.o
I am not sure why we are going down this route( apart from some people making a load of dosh) considering the complete failure of animal testing over the years.
Forget about Thalidomide so quickly did you?
I Too Could Be a Councillor, Swindon says...
5:24pm Wed 21 May 08
RFM, you know full well UKIP won't come anywhere in Crewe, as do the rest of us.
And Labour are rubbish
Still, your man was quite good on Newsnight last night, Blah Blah
And Labour are rubbish. Not that he's a Tory
None of these embryos will vote Labour.
Oh sorry, this is a site about accepting or rejecting hybrid embryos.
Silly me. I thought it was the election opinion polls.
How did that happen?
Must be my myxomatosis causing distraction
VOTE RABBIT! Not Labour
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I Too Could Be a Councillor, Swindon says...
11:22pm Mon 19 May 08
Are these people trying to find a cure for my myxomatosis, or planning to give my rabbit 4 fingers and a thumb, on each of his front feet?