Thirty mph limits, or less, are in place across town and it makes no difference wth no deterrents as speedsters do not get caught, residential roads are being abused by reckless and aggressive drivers all across Swindon. Forget the camera vans, what we need is coppers doing random speed traps like they always used to ... if drivers don't speed, then they won't have a fine and points, simple as that!

I watch, with horror, as cars pass eachother from either direction on the bend in Cheney Manor Road, doing often over 50mph, and that is no exaggeration! Just think, a combined speed of over 100mph a few feet from residential properties!

I picture a Sunday teatime with many pedestrians enjoying a stroll on the pavements, little children on bikes with stabilisers, residents tidying up the front gardens of their homes , two vehicles collide, drivers with or without over the limit drink inside them, and many people could be wiped out. A multiple crash in no time as eleven thousand vehicles use this road most days!

Cars could career into homes, as has happened along here in the past, deaths, carnage ... all sorts of repercussions ... and, incidentally, what is a Community Beat Officer ... I understand we don't have one around here because they are too aware of a disater waiting to happen on our roads!

I wish them every success in relatively 'quiet' Upper Stratton.

About time they tried Lower Stratton, between the Wheatsheaf and the Crown. The pavement on one side of the road is so narrow that you can only walk single file. Houses open right on to the road, and it is on the bus route for the No7 and a direct route between Grange Infant and Junior schools. The laugh of it is that the speed bumps stop before the pavement narrows - not that they're much use anyway. And to top it all it's now a rat run from the police station to North Swindon.

How about a 20 mile limit and some traffic calming measures?? The road is an accident waiting to happen.

"I picture a Sunday teatime with many pedestrians enjoying a stroll on the pavements, little children on bikes with stabilisers, residents tidying up the front gardens of their homes , two vehicles collide, drivers with or without over the limit drink inside them, and many people could be wiped out. A multiple crash in no time as eleven thousand vehicles use this road most days!"



For gods sake donkey I was almost sick reading that sentimental crap

Midge completely agree with you, however the amount of people that cross by the haart estate agent is unreal the amount of times I've nearly run people over coming from Swindon Road doing less than 30mph

Also, I may be wrong here - but there hasnt been an announcement regarding the circumstances that led to Tyrese Hannah's death has there?

Donkey wrote:

Just think, a combined speed of over 100mph a few feet from residential properties!

Er, yes, on roads - made for cars to drive on.

Honestly, all this talk of 'deaths, carnage' is absolute drivel.

Why cannot people read and process the FACTS?

The police themselves admit that 95% of all road traffic accidents occur when NOBODY is travelling in excess of the prevailing speed limit.

That means just 5%, a tiny fraction, of accidents occur due to speeding.

Whilst any traffic accident or death is a tragedy, pretending it's all due to speed is actually very dangerous, as it takes people's minds off the REAL causes of these devastating accidents.

The police themselves admit that 95% of all road traffic accidents occur when NOBODY is travelling in excess of the prevailing speed limit.

For clarification, that's not to say that they were driving at a speed which was safe.

It sounds petty I know, but just because you're travelling inside of the speed limit doesn't mean you're at a safe speed for the conditions.

As much as I find speeding drivers to be selfish pains in the backside, I do feel that Police time would be better spent going toe to toe with all the scummy ferrel out of control brats that are plaguing the town at the moment.
Also, why target the speeding drivers in Upper Stratton, is it because the generally decent law abiding people in that area are more likely to stop when asked and pay their fines etc? Catching speeding drivers is just an easy way to clock up the figures. I'm sure that there are more pressing problems to deal with.

LordBelacqua wrote:

The police themselves admit that 95% of all road traffic accidents occur when NOBODY is travelling in excess of the prevailing speed limit.

For clarification, that's not to say that they were driving at a speed which was safe.

It sounds petty I know, but just because you're travelling inside of the speed limit doesn't mean you're at a safe speed for the conditions.

And conversely, if you're traveling faster than some random number painted on a piece of tin and nailed to a post, it doesn't mean that you're driving dangerously.

The current obsession with speed is lead by the fact that speeders can be caught and fined automatically, very easily with speed cameras. Driving standards and safety will not improve until someone invents a "stupid camera".

I'd much rather these police didnt do speed traps during the day in stratton, but we out and about in cars in on Friday and Saturday nights looking for drink drivers and boy racers.

And conversely, if you're traveling faster than some random number painted on a piece of tin and nailed to a post, it doesn't mean that you're driving dangerously.

Well, aside from the fact that the number isn't random (although I suspect either stupidy or satirical attempt), I never said that that wasn't a possibility.

However, the speed limits are put there for a reason - whilst I agree that doing 110mph down an empty motorway is, whilst slightly silly, not as dangerous as doing it during rush hour, the speed limit is 70 because that is what the powers that be have considered safe.

Besides, if people left with plenty of time and didn't insist upon being at the traffic lights 5 seconds before the guy ahead of you, they wouldn't be fined would they?

thenoose wrote:
As much as I find speeding drivers to be selfish pains in the backside, I do feel that Police time would be better spent going toe to toe with all the scummy ferrel out of control brats that are plaguing the town at the moment. Also, why target the speeding drivers in Upper Stratton, is it because the generally decent law abiding people in that area are more likely to stop when asked and pay their fines etc? Catching speeding drivers is just an easy way to clock up the figures. I'm sure that there are more pressing problems to deal with.

No doubt you are one of the first to moan when a road has to be closed for the collision investigators to have to piece together, for the sake of a grieving family, how and why a car has killed or seriously injured someone. This uses up more Police time and causes disruption to thousands of road users etc, due to one vehicle. Stop the speeding in built up areas, and keep everybody happy and in one piece. Dont speed and you have nothing to worry about! Well done the nieghbourhood teams, people moan they never see a police officer on their beat, but soon speeders will meet one!

This is appalling, to tar all speeding motorists with that of an irresponsible killer.

Ermin St and Headlands Grove are nowhere near Drove Road for goodness sake.

Why are they making a comparison between Tyrese's death and possible speeding motorists in a separate area of town.

That's appalling.

gwp wrote:

thenoose wrote: As much as I find speeding drivers to be selfish pains in the backside, I do feel that Police time would be better spent going toe to toe with all the scummy ferrel out of control brats that are plaguing the town at the moment. Also, why target the speeding drivers in Upper Stratton, is it because the generally decent law abiding people in that area are more likely to stop when asked and pay their fines etc? Catching speeding drivers is just an easy way to clock up the figures. I'm sure that there are more pressing problems to deal with.

No doubt you are one of the first to moan when a road has to be closed for the collision investigators to have to piece together, for the sake of a grieving family, how and why a car has killed or seriously injured someone. This uses up more Police time and causes disruption to thousands of road users etc, due to one vehicle. Stop the speeding in built up areas, and keep everybody happy and in one piece. Dont speed and you have nothing to worry about! Well done the nieghbourhood teams, people moan they never see a police officer on their beat, but soon speeders will meet one!

Who is more likley to kill someone?

-a "normal" law abading person travelling at 33 in a 30 in broad daylight?

-someone who's had 6 pins and is driving home from town on a saturday night?


Which of these imaginary people is more likley to be caught under the current arrangements?

-someone who's had 6 pins and is driving home from town on a saturday night?

I take the 'pins', due to the pain it'd increase the possibility of an accident.

:)

D'oh!

I'm all for coppers doing what coppers are supposed to be doing - and that includes operations like this.

I'd just like to remind the geographically inept amongst you, that Headlands Grove and Ermin Street run right past SCHOOLS. The scene of (in the case of Ermin Street) a number of historical pedestrian fatalities, some involving schoolchildren - one was a classmate of mine, many years ago.

Let the coppers do their job. 30, not 40. No excuses.

WTF? wrote:
This is appalling, to tar all speeding motorists with that of an irresponsible killer. Ermin St and Headlands Grove are nowhere near Drove Road for goodness sake. Why are they making a comparison between Tyrese's death and possible speeding motorists in a separate area of town. That's appalling.

I agree, whether it's the Adver or the Police that are using Tyrese's untimely and tragic death to somehow make their revenue generating scam appear more acceptable - it's in very bad taste.

The death of Tyrese will not be uppermost in their minds. Uppermost in their minds will be clobbering the motorist, raising revenue and hitting meaningless targets.

If there were no other crime on our streets, fine, go after people who've not actually negatively affected anybody. Until then, maybe start looking for the people out there that vandalise and set fire to cars 'for a laugh', rather than the car owners who are just trying to get from A to B.

We MUST get over this ludicrously misguided idea that speed is the major problem on our roads.

LordBelacqua, you should do a quick bit of Google research into how and why our speed limits were chosen in this country. Believe me, there's very little science behind it. They were also set at a time when technology (especially braking technology) was far, far behind what we have now.

Don't get me wrong, we do need speed limits but it's laughable how the anti-speed lobby go on and on about how we must all stick below the speed limit as that's 'safer' but when presented with the facts that 95% of accidents occur while all involved are doing less than the speed limit they suddenly decide that speed limits aren't necessarily safe.

You can't have it both ways and the facts remain, speed is most certainly not the reason why most RTAs occur.

One thing you never hear the government talk about is how many accidents poorly maintained roads are accountable for (hint, it's more than speeding).

Now, I wonder why that might be?

I agree with what the Police are doing every time i go down Headlands or Ermin Street and stick to 30mph on my moped i get cars over taking me at speeds of 40 mph plus.They also should have a look at Pinehurst Road too as the same thing happens there and the speed limit is only 20 mph and yet cars are doing 40 mph.
Speed kills.

That's it, keep repeating it, just like the government brainwashed you to do:

'Speed kills. Speed kills. Speed kills.'

The only problem is, all the evidence overwhelming suggests that it doesn't.

BTW, the people who have commented saying 'speed kills' and 'everyone's speeding like lunatics' seem to have missed one very salient point... if everyone is speeding like devils and speeding kills, how come there are actually very few accidents on our roads?

By your logic it should be carnage and mayhem every other hour.

It simply isn't.

Nothing to do with speed it,s the poor road sufaces. stupid road layout,s actually designed to confuse drivers, pointless and meaningless white paint all over he place.

Easyer to catch a speeding motorist and tax him/her.

emmylou83 wrote:
Midge completely agree with you, however the amount of people that cross by the haart estate agent is unreal the amount of times I've nearly run people over coming from Swindon Road doing less than 30mph

thought about getting some spectacles?

I do not have a problem with the Police catching speeding motorists. What i do have a problem with is the roads that are chosen are usually always dual carriageways were there are no footpaths directly adjacent to the road. This is only to generate revenue. The roads they should be catching speeders on are residential areas with schools and homes close to roads or areas regularly used by pedestrians. I live on one such road in Swindon and am tired of idiots tearing past at 40+ mph, why do they need to be driving so fast? selfish and stupid! The laughable thing is that the council in their wisdom decided to install traffic calming measures which has made the situation worse, as they do not account for the idiotic mentality of the drivers. If there is a big sign painted into the road at a junction with the letters 'S L O W' it's there for a reason. Yes we should have speed checks but they should only be on roads with high accident rates or as i said before near schools and homes.

One thing no-one's considered is that so-called "traffic calming" is actually contributing to car/pedestrian accidents.

Since the introduction of 20mph limits I've noticed many people, both adults and children just walk out infront of cars without so much as a glance, expecting that the cars will just stop like magic. It's happened to me more than once and I'll bet it's happened to most of you too.

When the residential speed limits were 30mph, that didn't happen so often.

Sadly it has taken a death to finally provoke some action. By a remarkable coincidence within a few days of the death of Tyrese Hannah the Council sprang into action and resurfaced the affected area of Drove road with anti-skid surfacing and announced that some speed activated warning signs would be installed. Apparently all part of their pre-programmed road improvement works we were told at a subsequent public meeting. I think we can be forgiven for being sceptical.

This was a tragedy waiting to happen. For well over a decade the police and Swindon Highway Authority were warned by the residents of Drove Road that a fatal accident was going to occur. This based on a long record of frequent collisions, shunts and injuries caused by a combination of bad road design, speeding and poor judgement. Over that entire period the response was to paint some more white lines on the road. Unsuprisingly this made next to no difference to the accident rate.

And now the police are cracking down on speeding motorists, citing the death of Tyrese Hannah as a reason. Oddly enough at the public meeting we were told by the police that the use of speed camera’s was ‘controversial’. Maybe they are and maybe this is because they are often perceived to be sited in locations where their real function is raising revenue and improving conviction records rather than reducing deaths. This is a great shame as I believe most people, even the most selfish of drivers would understand and even support their use where it really counted.

None of us are angels and I suspect most of us enjoy the freedom of the road to the point where occasionally our enjoyment overrides consideration of the well being and even the lives of others. It’s easily done. That’s why we need speed limits and that’s why they need to be enforced, particularly in built up areas and particularly in locations where pedestrians and cyclists are part of the mix. It’s not just about injuries and death, it is also about giving consideration to others and not only those sitting inside a car.

I only wish this crackdown could have happened ten years ago.

Why do they make cars
that can do 120+mph
when you cant use that speed?.

Try speeding In the States,NO messing .

This country has no Balls when It comes to
dishing out punishment
to offenders.

I'm afraid enforcement comes a poor second to prevention. This is why I firmly believe the flashing speed signs should be used more widely, with perhaps a statistic sign. This road is an accident black spot. We are of course talking revenue generation here, safety is only part of it.

Casual Observer wrote:

emmylou83 wrote: Midge completely agree with you, however the amount of people that cross by the haart estate agent is unreal the amount of times I've nearly run people over coming from Swindon Road doing less than 30mph

thought about getting some spectacles?

Hmmm funny (tw*t)

From today's newspapers:

The Government has allowed Britain's roads to fall into disrepair despite raking in record taxes from motorists, the president of the AA claimed.

Motorists pay more than £44 billion a year in various taxes, yet only £8 billion is spent on the entire transport network, including the railways.

The roads have become littered with potholes because of the under-investment, putting the lives of drivers and their passengers in danger, according to AA president Edmund King.

He said: "Britain's motorists are paying record levels of taxation yet receive poor value for money.

"Skimping can cost lives, and not a single one should be lost on the roads for want of a pothole being filled or a surface renewed."

The truth is out for all to see.

While the government spend millions of our pounds telling us all how evil speeders cost lives (when in reality, they're barely responsbile at all) while at the same time taking our road tax but spending it elsewhere and knowingly allow roads to become neglected, unrepaired and dangerous.

The horrible irony of all this is that dangerous and ill-maintained roads cost more lives than speeding.

Another Labour disgrace.

James wrote:

This is a great shame as I believe most people, even the most selfish of drivers would understand and even support their use where it really counted.

But this is the whole problem. Speed cameras do not slow drivers. They issue tickets without any kind of consideration of the circumstances (in all other aspects of UK law discretion and judgement is applied - so drug addicted burglars and muggers regularly get 'another chance' from judges - a motorist caught on camera doing 34mph in a 30mph zone (but who negatively affected nothing and nobody) will NEVER be given such lenient treatment).

When speed cameras issue 500 tickets a year I will agree that they work. They will have stopped motorists exceding speed limits (not that it makes anything safe, at all).

Unfortunately, speed camera tickets have risen in number every single year since their introduction in the early 90s and especially since Labour saw them as a revenue raiser and started putting them up as fast as they could, often in illegal positions - such as at least two cameras in Swindon that are currently 'out of use'. BTW, all tickets ever issued by those machines are also illegal and those who receive them should have their money refunded, because keeping it is also illegal. Will that ever happen? Of course not.

By the way, I have an apology to make. Throughout this thread I have consistently stated that the number of accidents caused by illegal speeding is 5%.

I have since been sent the official police statistics for the amount of accidents caused by illegal speeding.

It's actually 4%.

BTW, speed cameras currently issue 2 MILLION tickets per year - an average of 1 for every 10 drivers in this country.

Not exactly slowing people down, are they?

So the majority of responses here regard scameras as revenue raising , tax collectors. Unfortunately the people who implement them dont... Drove road is a long way from Stratton that had me confused for a moment. Does anyone know the real reason for Tyreses death??
The 70mph limit was implemented during an oil crisis as a means of reducing petrol consumption - no other safety reason. This is also at a time when most cars utilised drums brakes on at least one axle. Modern cars can stop in a third of the stated highway code distances.
4% of accidents caused by speeding - what the hell causes the other 96%??? Surely we would save more children/oaps/kitten
s/fluffy bunnies by investigating the 96% as opposed to taxing someone who is mindful of road conditions, keeping up with traffic, observing the usual dangers around them but going 5mph above a limit???
All you speed camera lovers tell me this - What is the major cause of road accidents today? I bet poor driving/observance is near the top.

Casuses of Road Traffic Accidents UK (home office data)

Inattention: 25.8%

Failure to judge other person's path or speed: 22.6%

Looked but did not see: 19.7%

Behaviour: careless/thoughtless
/reckless: 18.4%

Failed to look: 16.3%

Lack of judgment of own path: 13.7%

Excessive speed: 12.5%

Excessive speed includes both speeding in excess of the speed limit and inappropriate speed for the conditions.

Data from Avon & Somerset (the only force to supply such data) shows that 70% of "excessive speed" accidents takes place within the speed limit. Therefore it's fair to assume that 30% involves exceeding the speed limit.

A quick calculation (30% of 12.5%) reveals that just 3.75% of accidents involves exceeding the speed limit.

Some people will never accept that they are more likely to cause an accident than a speeding motorist is.

Most people who claim (or think) they're 'safe' drivers statistically are no such thing.

This is why so many people very quickly blame speeding motorists for everything.

It's so sad, because it means we focus almost exclusively on something that doesn't actually cause many fatalities, while we ignore the major reasons why people die on the roads.

Thanks Frontier! That was exactly the kind of informative, unbiased, unemotional response which proves that the focus is the wrong cause - speed.
Stand on the roundabout of Jct 16/Wootton Bassett road and count how many near misses are caused by the top 5 listed and all within the speed limit!!

Inattention: 25.8%

Failure to judge other person's path or speed: 22.6%

Looked but did not see: 19.7%

Behaviour: careless/thoughtless

/reckless: 18.4%

Failed to look: 16.3%

Lack of judgment of own path: 13.7%

Okay Smart a$$es ... supposing you live on one of these 'ultra residential' roads that twist and turn and have raised tables with TWENTY MPH as the acceptable and legal speed limit ... do me a favour and tell us all at which speed you would like the motorist to drive along past your home? So why do you want to drive at 40 - 50 mph in a 30 zone past my home?

SELFISH, VERY SELFISH AND DOWNRIGHT INCONSIDERATE PEOPLE OFTEN WRITE ON HERE.

Incidentally, Big Front writes that the roads were built primariliy for the driving of motor vehicles thereupon ... I beg to differ there ... the roads which I occasionally mention are not suitable for a non-speed limit as some of you wish for! They are residential roads which have not really improved since the days of the odd movement of horse and cart! They were not designed for the abuse they receive with todays traffic numbers and I think that residents should at least be given some courtesy by the selfish motorist!

If you want to race ... then pi$$ off down to Castle Coombe!

Donkey, there is nothing 'smart a$$' about wanting to focus our available resources towards reducing road casualties as effectively as possible.

The official police/home office figures confirm this very important FACT:

If we stopped every single motorist from ever speeding again, 96% of accidents would STILL happen!

Regarding your other point, I do live on a residential road. My house is roughly 20ft from a road that was never, ever intended to carry the amount of traffic it does.

Do some people speed down it? Yes. But after living on the same road for 15 years I can tell you that the only serious accident that occurred here (and it was bad) involved two cars both doing less than 20mph! Unfortunately, one of them was shunted into a pedestrian, who was then shunted into a wall.

Had the wall not been there, he'd have been absolutely fine.

Speed was simple a non-issue.

If you stand next to a wall and a car drives into you at 5mph and doesn't stop, you will likely die - or at the very least be horrifically injured.

Speed is, as the figures prove, rarely the problem.

Donkey - where does it say some people want no speed limits at all??
I live on a road that leads directly to a primary school - please make it a 20mph limit and enforce it. That is where we need to focus on speed.

Appropriate speed limits for the road/conditions - thats what most of us want.

Motorways are statistically the safest roads in the country which can easily be raised to 80 without issue. The only time i see problems is when people panic brake from normal motorway speeds to anything under 70 so that they dont get scammed. Safety? NO Revenue Generating? YES

Ade, Donkey often exaggerates and uses overly-emotive language to 'support' his debates.

As so often with the 'I don't like it personally, so ban it' brigade of socialism that Donkey subscribes to, he obviously has a bee in his bonnet about those who decide not to trundle along (dangerously) at 5mph under the speed limit and so he feels people who break the speed limit - the overwhelmingly vast majority of which are very safe drivers - should be demonised.

I have a feeling that, for some, this isn't about road safety or even revenue raising at all. It's just another way to exert perceived power and get people to do what they want them to do. As usual with socialists, it's all about controlling others.

Donkey should also really point out a very important fact here - he's retired (and has been for years - and therefore never faces the pressures of attending business meetings, commercial deliveries, spending half your day away from family in congestion etc.

When you never particularly have to be anywhere at any particular time, it's fairly easy to point the finger at those who have slightly more pressing engagements to attend.

Frontier(s) wrote:
Ade, Donkey often exaggerates and uses overly-emotive language to 'support' his debates. As so often with the 'I don't like it personally, so ban it' brigade of socialism that Donkey subscribes to, he obviously has a bee in his bonnet about those who decide not to trundle along (dangerously) at 5mph under the speed limit and so he feels people who break the speed limit - the overwhelmingly vast majority of which are very safe drivers - should be demonised. I have a feeling that, for some, this isn't about road safety or even revenue raising at all. It's just another way to exert perceived power and get people to do what they want them to do. As usual with socialists, it's all about controlling others. Donkey should also really point out a very important fact here - he's retired (and has been for years - and therefore never faces the pressures of attending business meetings, commercial deliveries, spending half your day away from family in congestion etc. When you never particularly have to be anywhere at any particular time, it's fairly easy to point the finger at those who have slightly more pressing engagements to attend.

You ignorant, condescending, patronising character Big Frontiers!

I am talking unsuitable speeds in unsuitable places here ... but I would expect you to be your usual self righteous personage with downright rudeness to other posters on here.

Just because others have found you out for what you really stand for ... on the comments about the flooding story, there's no need to try and belittle a decent member of society in this way, it ain't clever and I wonder really what you think of yourself? Quite frightening really!

I really fail to see how I'm 'ignorant' because I can actually read and process the facts about the causes of road accidents correctly.

It's YOU that persists in a tirade against speeding, even when it's shown to you that most accidents do not involve excess, let alone illegal, speeding.

I must admit though, it's taken you a bit longer than usual to endulge yourself in your ludicrous 'victim' style response.

And what on earth had the flooding debate got to do with speeding?!?

Jesus wept, if you live in an area prone to flooding - why are you surprised when the area you live in floods?!?

I SAY THE POLICE SHOULD LEAVE US ALONE ON SPEEDING I N OTHEY ARE THERE TO STOP ACCEDENTS BUT PLEASE I BET BEFORE OR DURING BEING A POLICE OFFICER THEY WENT OVER THE SPEED LIMIT A COUPLE OF TIMES BUT WHEN WE DO FOR IMPORTANT REASON WE GET FINES POINTS AND COURT HEARINGS WHAT EVER NEXT

labour party supporter wrote:
I SAY THE POLICE SHOULD LEAVE US ALONE ON SPEEDING I N OTHEY ARE THERE TO STOP ACCEDENTS BUT PLEASE I BET BEFORE OR DURING BEING A POLICE OFFICER THEY WENT OVER THE SPEED LIMIT A COUPLE OF TIMES BUT WHEN WE DO FOR IMPORTANT REASON WE GET FINES POINTS AND COURT HEARINGS WHAT EVER NEXT

Labour has ALWAYS hated the motorist and seen them as an easy target to raise taxes.

The last time Labour was in government (1970s), oddly enough, we had a fuel shortage then too.

Touch of "deja vu" there.

Labour see anything as a way of raising taxes as we've seen time and time again over the past 10, nearly 11 years.

Anyone who still persists in supporting/voting for Labour really do need their heads examined.

I've never seen such a corrupt, vindictive, controlling shower of incompetents in all my 50 odd years and to think there are still some people naive enough to vote for them, beggars belief.

To get back on track, Frontier's statistics back up what I said in my post.

With the introduction of "traffic calming", people no longer look or can judge speed, or they look without really seeing.

All traffic calming has done is to reduce the thinking capabilities of many people - which is exactly what Labour want - people who can't think for themselves and make rational decisions. It's nothing more than a form of brainwashing. Makes it easier for Labour to create their totalitarian state.