Mosque plan put on hold (From Swindon Advertiser)
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Mosque plan put on hold
11:00am Tuesday 26th August 2008 in
MUSLIMS have been told ‘no’ for now to their hopes of building a purpose-built mosque in Swindon.
The 3,000-strong community say their cramped mosque in Broad Street is no longer suitable for a congregation of its size.
The Thamesdown Islamic Association had its heart set on a disused site near the North Star roundabout, off Osbourne Street.
But Swindon Council has refused, and says there are no suitable potential sites available at this time.
It says it needs to get full market price for any land sold and cannot make allowances for any groups.
Azim Khan of the Thamesdown Islamic Association said: “Broad Street is no longer sufficient.
“The number of people coming to the mosque is increasing day by day.
“We have built a second floor but it is still not enough.”
Last year worshippers were forced to pray in the street due to lack of room.
But since the extension, everyone can fit inside.
“We manage to hold the service inside but it is very tight,” said Mr Khan.
“We feel let down, as we have a very big population.
“We look after everybody and we get no support.
“They even do not invite us to discuss the problem after we have written several letters.
“We are very disappointed.”
Swindon Council said in a statement: “We are aware of the Thamesdown Islamic Association’s desire to be given land on which to build a new mosque and have been closely liaising with them on this matter.
“Unfortunately we are not in a position to give land away and have a responsibility to get full value for any land sold by achieving the best consideration reasonably obtainable.
“The council cannot therefore make special allowances for particular groups.”
A specialist architect had designed plans of a large, ornate mosque to accommodate 3,000 people for the Thamesdown Islamic Association.
But the plans will remain a dream unless Muslims find a site they can afford.
The council insists it is trying to help.
Its statement continued: “We appreciate the association’s wish for a purpose-built mosque in the borough and will continue to work with them to try and identify a site which they are able to buy.”
Mr Khan said the community’s population continues to grow as people from Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia move to the town.
Comments(72)
Malkym
says...
11:35am Tue 26 Aug 08
Malkym
says...
11:48am Tue 26 Aug 08
john c
says...
12:16pm Tue 26 Aug 08
I have no objection to members of any group wishing to provide their members with bigger or better premises or facilities. As long as groups pay for their own facilities and obey the planning rules it is fine with me but please do not ask me to subsidies them.
Malkym
says...
12:28pm Tue 26 Aug 08
nansview
says...
12:34pm Tue 26 Aug 08
From Swindon And Proud
says...
12:41pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Malkym wrote:What is it with you and Pride??? I'll tell you what i'll speak with the council and ask for a Malkym day ok? Then we can have balloons with your face on and everything!
MMM! At the risk of being seen as controversial one wonders what the response from the council would have been if the personnel connected with the recent PRIDE event had made an application for some land to build premises to provide a permanent base/venue facility for their organisation?
With regards to this article though i feel the council has made the right decision, personally.
Big Mac
says...
12:48pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Mr Khan said the community’s population continues to grow as people from Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia move to the town.
Recently released official government figures show that that 81% of Somalian immigrants are not in employment and rely on UK state benefits to exist. Only 4% of Somalian immigrants own, or are buying, their own home.
Find that hard to believe? Think it can't possibly be true? Read this:
tinyurl.com/5bw7ov
I find it astonishing that the Thamesdown Islamic Association is apparently asking for free, or reduced cost, land in order to build a bigger mosque for these people.
If the Muslim community of Swindon is now so large they need new premises, one might reasonably expect them to be able to pool their resources and fund such premises at market rates.
Malkym
says...
1:41pm Tue 26 Aug 08
The Mancunian Way
says...
1:46pm Tue 26 Aug 08
From Swindon And Proud
says...
1:47pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Pink Balloons it is, and t-shirts! Then off to the pipers for a few strong drinks to get over the excitement!
Wish i was there already .....!
PaulD
says...
1:53pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Religeons of any kind should get no special status.
The Mancunian Way
says...
1:59pm Tue 26 Aug 08
yiddo
says...
3:33pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Sorry Russ but quite a few do work look at the Poles for example, it idiots like the kiddie in the Phillipines who couldnt keeps his flies done up
Missdoodauk
says...
4:26pm Tue 26 Aug 08
yeti
says...
5:00pm Tue 26 Aug 08
The Mancunian Way wrote:i'm surprised this racist and innacurate post hasn't been removed.
Illegal immigrants, they are like sperm, thousands come but only 1 ever works
Malkym
says...
5:15pm Tue 26 Aug 08
yeti
says...
5:23pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Captain T
says...
5:55pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Good for SBC holding their ground, in this age of political correctness I almost expected to see the council happily obliging.
bulldog
says...
6:29pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Big Mac
says...
7:35pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Missdoodauk wrote:No, it's not surprising in the least that Muslims everywhere are donating vast sums to support the Labour party. I'd be surprised if they weren't. You always look afte those who look after you.
Although i understand why people may not agree with the council funding the building of a new Mosque i think its unfair to say that the Muslims of Swindon do not work and i also think for those of you who think this it would be interesting for you to know that a £500,000 donation from a muslim donation was made to the labour party and a further £300,000 from an organisation called 'the muslim friends of labour' i dont see anyone complaining about that.
And as for your other comment, please read the FACTS about which immigrants work and which don't. There's no point you saying it's 'unfair' to say Muslim immigrants don't work when the reality shows very clearly that they don't.
Your feelings don't really count for much when compared to the actual facts, no matter how much you'd like to believe otherwise.
As I said before, if you want to see the TRUTH, as opposed to how you'd like things to be, read this:
tinyurl.com/5bw7ov
Missdoodauk
says...
7:52pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Big Mac
says...
9:30pm Tue 26 Aug 08
does this country not pride itself on promoting equality and freedom of rights
No, not really.
At no time in the history of Britain has that been true, apart from when the idiots who started the NHS in the 1940s realised they needed cheap labour by the 1950s.
The much vaunted 'tolerance' also re-appeared around 1997 when the Labour party realised they needed to buy an awful lot of votes in order to stay in power (hence our current situation).
Read the history books and then tell me I'm wrong.
Mum's The Word
says...
9:42pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Re your web team comments Malkym, perhaps it is the difference between the official guidelines of what is acceptable on this site and yours and other posters interpretations of what's acceptable and what's not that causes the confussion. Hell, does that make any sense at all lol! I know what I am trying to say :)
We all think differently and have slightly different views and opinons on rights and wrongs. Sometimes official guidelines may not be in keeping with all posters opinions of what is acceptable and what is not?
When we going for that drink? :)
Always Grumpy
says...
10:24pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Big Mac
says...
8:36am Wed 27 Aug 08
yeti wrote:How is the post 'racist', yeti - it only mentions 'illegal immigrants' who, of course, could be any colour (many are, in fact, white).
The Mancunian Way wrote:Illegal immigrants, they are like sperm, thousands come but only 1 ever worksi'm surprised this racist and innacurate post hasn't been removed.
The truth is that you simply saw 'racism' and where there was none (like so many people do these days) and wanted to get the word 'racist' into your argument in order to believe you'd somehow won the debate and to try and have other people's views censored.
Well done to the Web team for recognising a boy who cried wolf and for not removing a post that never was 'racist' in the first place.
Missdoodauk
says...
9:13am Wed 27 Aug 08
Always Grumpy
says...
9:28am Wed 27 Aug 08
Missdoodauk wrote:Yes!
always grumpy how are muslims from swindon meant to travel all the way to the middle east etc to pray? are you openly admitting the fact that your not happy with other ethnical backgrounds living amongst you?
Missdoodauk
says...
9:47am Wed 27 Aug 08
yiddo
says...
10:07am Wed 27 Aug 08
The Mancunian Way
says...
10:20am Wed 27 Aug 08
Missdoodauk
says...
10:20am Wed 27 Aug 08
ourtone
says...
10:36am Wed 27 Aug 08
1:46pm Tue 26 Aug 08
Illegal immigrants, they are like sperm, thousands come but only 1 ever works"
This isnt racist, but it isn't helpful.
I dislike unregulated immigration, and I dislike the fact that too many illegals come here and too few are sent back.
Having said that, the 'joke,' above just reinforces the 'Little Englander / BNP, stereotypes, and stops people having a constructive discussion without being branded racist.
It shouldn't be moderated, but I wish the author would ask for it to be reomved.
The Mancunian Way
says...
10:47am Wed 27 Aug 08
yeti
says...
11:21am Wed 27 Aug 08
Big Mac wrote:it was a sweeping innacurate statement, which to some i'm sure is offensive.also it has nothing to do with the article whatsoever.
yeti wrote:The Mancunian Way wrote:Illegal immigrants, they are like sperm, thousands come but only 1 ever worksi'm surprised this racist and innacurate post hasn't been removed.How is the post 'racist', yeti - it only mentions 'illegal immigrants' who, of course, could be any colour (many are, in fact, white).The truth is that you simply saw 'racism' and where there was none (like so many people do these days) and wanted to get the word 'racist' into your argument in order to believe you'd somehow won the debate and to try and have other people's views censored.Well done to the Web team for recognising a boy who cried wolf and for not removing a post that never was 'racist' in the first place.
also you are wrong about me trying to win a debate,and to have somebodys post censored.i said i was surprised it wasn't removed.
so let's stick to what actually was typed,not what you dress it up to have said!
Big Mac
says...
11:26am Wed 27 Aug 08
The figures show that around 70,000 Somali immigrants have relocated to the UK in the past 10 years. Of those, 81% are unemployed.
It may have been a fairly poor taste joke, but The Mancunian Way's post was actually not very far from the truth at all.
These are simply facts - they see no colour. Just because you may not like the facts does not make them 'racist'.
ourtone
says...
11:28am Wed 27 Aug 08
10:47am Wed 27 Aug 08
OMG people come on, if we are all honest we all dislike the people who enter our country illegaly and dont work and dont show up on the systems, That was who the koke was aimed at. Not people who come from other countries like the poles etc who do work, jesus lighten up will you Web Team please remove the comment as we have so many childish people who see whats not there...?"
Yes. I do dislike people who come here, clinging to the bottom of lorries or who make up a sob-story and claim asylum. Most so-called ‘asylum seekers’ are either economic migrants or criminals, fleeing their own justice system.
The United Nations Convention on Refugees states that a refugee seeking asylum must do so in the first safe country that they reach. In almost all cases, that will not be us. What happens however is that these so called ‘asylum seekers,’ make a choice about their country of final destination, and that makes them economic migrants.
We should have a simple assessment process for these people. We should review how they got here, and if they have been in another country first, we should simply send them back there and let that country deal with them. If they refuse to say how they got here, we should just throw them out anyway.
I don’t want those people in my country, taking up valuable resources, congesting our infrastructure, and making use of the NHS and social housing that they are not entitled to.
I resent having my tax money wasted on them. I would even call them parasites.
When I say things like that, I get called a racist. I am not a racist, but I don’t want my country filling up with people who came here to take advantage of it. I get called one for my views, and that’s because of people making jokes like that
The Mancunian Way
says...
11:44am Wed 27 Aug 08
It was meant in a light hearted way like I said above the web team can remove it. I cant beleive people get so caught up in stuff like this dont we have more important things to worry about.As Big Mac says what I stated was not far from the truth please people come on lets move on ok it was in bad taste but hell its what many of us think behind closed door's and I am not a racist ok I have many asian friends..?
yeti
says...
12:04pm Wed 27 Aug 08
Big Mac wrote:saying "only one works" is further from the truth than anything else posted in the thread.if we are dealing with facts like?
Yet again people are quite happy to ignore reality here.The figures show that around 70,000 Somali immigrants have relocated to the UK in the past 10 years. Of those, 81% are unemployed.It may have been a fairly poor taste joke, but The Mancunian Way's post was actually not very far from the truth at all.These are simply facts - they see no colour. Just because you may not like the facts does not make them 'racist'.
Missdoodauk
says...
12:21pm Wed 27 Aug 08
yeti
says...
12:28pm Wed 27 Aug 08
the illegal immigrant problem(which i do not deny exists)has no bearing on the topic of the thread.the joke was poorly timed and in bad taste.
Big Mac
says...
12:51pm Wed 27 Aug 08
yeti wrote:Er, you do know how jokes work, right?
Big Mac wrote:Yet again people are quite happy to ignore reality here.The figures show that around 70,000 Somali immigrants have relocated to the UK in the past 10 years. Of those, 81% are unemployed.It may have been a fairly poor taste joke, but The Mancunian Way's post was actually not very far from the truth at all.These are simply facts - they see no colour. Just because you may not like the facts does not make them 'racist'.saying "only one works" is further from the truth than anything else posted in the thread.if we are dealing with facts like?
For humour to work it generally has to have some grounding in reality which is then often exagarated for comic effect.
When only 19% of 70,000 people work, even the most PC of people must admit that it's a horrendous statistic. And that reality is certainly no joke at all.
ourtone
says...
1:13pm Wed 27 Aug 08
12:21pm Wed 27 Aug 08
i want to know what the hell building a place of worship for British muslims who are born and brought up here has got to do with asylam seekers, talk about losing the plot....”
“yeti, swindon says...
12:28pm Wed 27 Aug 08
the illegal immigrant problem(which i do not deny exists)has no bearing on the topic of the thread.the joke was poorly timed and in bad taste.”
I do love people who can’t read
(1) Azim Khan of the Thamesdown Islamic Association said: “Broad Street is no longer sufficient.
“The number of people coming to the mosque is increasing day by day.
(2) Mr Khan said the community’s population continues to grow as people from Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia move to the town.
(3) Somalians are mostly refugees and asylum seekers, according to government figures. Less than 19% work, for example, and the average wage of those that do is at the bottom of the table, as is their average educational attainment.
Thus (1) the point of the story is that the Mosque needs more space, (2) that the reason it needs more spaces is because of people of e.g. Somali origin, and (3) according to a study of the most common groups of immigrants by country of origin, Somalis are most likely to be here as refugees or asylum seekers.
That’s why it does have a bearing Yeti, and you are the one who has lost the plot Missdoodauk
The Mancunian Way
says...
1:20pm Wed 27 Aug 08
Missdoodauk
says...
2:07pm Wed 27 Aug 08
Missdoodauk
says...
2:07pm Wed 27 Aug 08
yeti
says...
2:58pm Wed 27 Aug 08
immigrants for sure,asylum seekers very possibly,not necessarily illegaly here at all.
i can read perfectly well thanks.
yeti
says...
3:08pm Wed 27 Aug 08
The Mancunian Way wrote:i've not asked for its removal.i dont care.i said that i was surprised that it wasn't removed.
F.F.Sake I have asked can it be removed Yeti get ouver it will you it was a joke ok, I get it you dont have a sense of humour. How may jokes have been made after a tragedy occurs etc come on can you honetsly hand on heart tell me you have never told one of these jokes our laughed at them if so boswellocks. That is the British way laugh and the world laughs with you come on people is it really that important is your life so dull..?
stuff far less offensive gets wiped off.
i have a sence of humour.just thought your joke was poorly timed,and not funny.
others then chose to make more of what was said as usual.
ourtone
says...
3:18pm Wed 27 Aug 08
Just read the words I wrote at face value and try to make sense of them. Dont make semi-hysterical, meaningless comments in an effort to distort what I said.
Where does punishment come into it? The TIA asked the Council for money, and the council said no.
Yeti - Immigration is relevant to this thread because the Mosque is running short of space because of Immigrants. A significant percentage of these are Somali, and according to the government's own figures, a high proportion of all Somalis are illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. Q.E.D.
If they want a bigger Mosque, let them buy land and build one. Why not! We have a Sikh temple in Gorse Hill, why not a Mosque with Minarets in manchester Road.
But let them pay for it themselves.
Missdoodauk
says...
3:39pm Wed 27 Aug 08
i agree, yes let them pay for it, but dont hide behind the fact that its all to fo with illegal immigrants, what i mean is don't base not giving a bigger mosque to those who are British born Muslims and legal muslims because you are against Illegal ones for someone who doesnt like immigrants you give them enough attention in your threads and the sikh temple had help from the government so why don't muslims with the Mosque?
ourtone
says...
3:54pm Wed 27 Aug 08
3:39pm Wed 27 Aug 08
ourtone
i agree, yes let them pay for it, but dont hide behind the fact that its all to fo with illegal immigrants, what i mean is don't base not giving a bigger mosque to those who are British born Muslims and legal muslims because you are against Illegal ones for someone who doesnt like immigrants you give them enough attention in your threads and the sikh temple had help from the government so why don't muslims with the Mosque?
Can I recommend an adult literacy course that may be able to help you with your spelling, grammar, punctuation and general comprehension? Your (lack of) logic is probably beyond all hope.
The current Mosque is apparently big enough for the British born Muslims and probably the legal ones as well.
Did the Sikhs have help from the government? The national government, as opposed to the Local Council? Fine, then let the TIA apply to the same source
Big Mac
says...
4:36pm Wed 27 Aug 08
ourtone, do you think that the muslims who were born here and pay their national insurance and work for this country should be punished becuse of immigrants?
Missdoodauk, British born Muslims are not being 'punished' by anyone.
Nobody gets free land or free money to build their places of worship, so why should Muslims suddently expect such treatment simply because hundreds of thousands of them have decided to better their lives by coming here.
If you're one of the 81% of Somali immigrants who lived in a third world country and now have a free house, free money to spend and free health care from a country you have contributed absolutely nothing to, should you really then expect to have a mosque provided for you as well?
Try emigrating to Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan and see what reaction you get when asking their authorities for land to build an Anglican Church on...
Missdoodauk
says...
4:40pm Wed 27 Aug 08
you know what i absolutely agree with you, i just think too much emphasis is put on the immigrants when its not them asking for help its Azim Khan a man who pays his taxes and national insurance,
Missdoodauk
says...
4:47pm Wed 27 Aug 08
don't insult my integrity,i can tell you like to judge people, and though its none of your business my grammer and english is better than yours will ever be at the best of times, the fact is when i want to get my point across quickly i dont focus on my grammer and hope someone who is clearly highly intelligent as yourself would be able to comprehend what im trying to say, oh and to answer your question the Mosque is not big enough for the amount of muslims that are immigrating as well as converting in Britain,
ourtone
says...
7:42pm Wed 27 Aug 08
ourtone,
don't (sic) insult my integrity, my grammer (sic) and english (sic) is better than yours will ever be at the best of times
Apart from the other six mistakes you made, it is grammar and English.
Also, Muslim is a noun and requires capitalisation.
Oh the Irony.
Big Mac
says...
7:51pm Wed 27 Aug 08
The British taxpayer does not, and should not, religious places of worship. It's that simple and there is absolutely no reason why Muslims should be treated any differently than any other religious group.
The bottom line is that if your religion is so important to you and you are unable to practice it here, there are plenty of places you can relocate to where you will be able to practice it. Nobody is forcing anyone to live in the UK.
Missdoodauk
says...
8:18pm Wed 27 Aug 08
oh the irony
Always Grumpy
says...
10:39pm Wed 27 Aug 08
Missdoodauk wrote:I'm neither ignorant or narrow minded.
Well then you're clearly a very narrow minded old man, but hey atleast your proud to be ignorant and a racist congrats
However, I am sick of people coming to this country and expecting a free ride, paid for by my taxes. I despise all religions, not just Islam. I do think Islam is a religion of hate and intolerance however, especially when aimed towards non-believers and followers of other religions.
Whether you like it or not this country is NOT a Muslim country and followers of Islam are welcome to practice their religion in a country that will offer them the sort of religious doctrine they crave so dearly, if they are not happy with their lot here.
Finally, as for being a racist, you obviously do not understand the difference between race and religion. Perhaps you should find out the differences before you condemn other people for their views.
Mansoor the sec
says...
12:17am Thu 28 Aug 08
The TIA does not look after everyone and and support 3000 people. the muslims community is diverse and not everyone so please stop trying to think the TIA repersents every single muslim within the Swindon area.
Also friday prayers are being held at Broadgreen community centre by a totally indpendent group then TIA.. Since this has been happening it has eased the over-crowding and there is not plenty of room in the TIA mosque. If there is not any room then anyone can go there
Bobfm
says...
8:26am Thu 28 Aug 08
As for the amount of money given to Labour, I nearly laughed out loud. Of course they gave it to Labour, it's because of Labours out of control that we have in excess of 500,000 illegal immigrants in the UK. Who wouldn't reward a party that has created a damaging 'social policy' which is allowing extremist parties like the BNP to expand. Did anyone see Panorama, it seems even the BBC is attempting to create racial hatred.
Missdoodauk
says...
9:18am Thu 28 Aug 08
Big Mac
says...
10:43am Thu 28 Aug 08
Islam is a religion that promotes and teaches peace, purity, submission and obedience
Missdoodauk, with the greatest respet, nobody with the slightest knowledge of Islam could seriously claim that it promotes those things to anyone or anything but other Muslims.
You will know, if you know about Islam, exactly what the Prophet Mohammed and Islam have to say about kafir harbi.
The current trend is to promote 'extremists' for Islam's less than savoury aspects but, unfortunately, it is the type of religion that does not progress and has not moved forward since it was created. In fact, by its very nature, it can never move forward as this would mean deviating from the word of Prophet Muhammad.
Malkym
says...
11:43am Thu 28 Aug 08
Missdoodauk
says...
11:53am Thu 28 Aug 08
Big Mac
says...
12:15pm Thu 28 Aug 08
Big Mac, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and the reason for this is because of its message
a) being the world's fastest growing religion doesn't actually mean it's necessarily a good thing.
b) if you look into the demographics of the world as it stands and consider which countries and peoples are having the most children you will find the real reason why Islam is spreading at such a rate. The 'message' has very little to do with it.
c) I hadn't realised you were an authority on Christianity, Judaism and Islam. That's quite some achievement, especially given that most of the world's preeminent religious leaders would claim they have barely mastered their own scriptures.
Look, it's clear you've been taken in by Islam - that doesn't make everything you say correct for everybody else. Quite the opposite some might argue.
Bobfm
says...
12:16pm Thu 28 Aug 08
Malkym, be care there could be a Fatiwar (if that is how it's spelt) coming your way.
Missdoodauk
says...
12:24pm Thu 28 Aug 08
Big Mac
says...
12:57pm Thu 28 Aug 08
I very much admire your last post.
Always Grumpy
says...
2:55pm Thu 28 Aug 08
Missdoodauk wrote:"Islam is a religion that promotes and teaches peace, purity, submission and obedience, its extremists that take it too far, ok."
although i respect both your views my religion is and should be a private thing, i honestly didnt come into this to talk about my faith, so il end it here, thank you for your comments.
But you have been talking about your religion and not respecting other peoples views. A clear example of the bigotry and hypocrisy of Islam.
ourtone
says...
4:25pm Thu 28 Aug 08
11:53am Thu 28 Aug 08
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and the reason for this is because of its message,
that i know that alot of what is said in the Bible, Torah and Quraan are metaphors and you need to really sit down and study them like i have to understand the meaning behind the scriptures. "
Muslims are taught that each verse of the Qu’ran is the literal, divinely inspired word of Allah, given to the Prophet.
They are not told this is any kind of metaphor. They are presented as the exact truth.
The Hadith, on the other hand are open to a little interpretation, but the main source of Islam is the Qu’ran which is supposed to be written by the Prophet himself.
To believe anything different would be to reject the first of the Five Pillars of Islam, the fundamental duties of every Muslim, summed up by the first spoken words a Muslim’s baby will hear, and recited at the point of death.
“I testify that there is no god but Allah, and I testify that Muhammad is a messenger of Allah".
Mavis
says...
6:15pm Thu 28 Aug 08
It is about the Moslem community paying for their own land and not expecting the council to fund a mosque for them.
If I want a guide to the Muslim religion I'll buy a book.
Old Town
says...
4:07pm Fri 29 Aug 08
Geekzilla
says...
10:15am Tue 2 Sep 08
Surely there are larger, more suitable plots available?
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