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Plea for motorists not to park on grass verges

10:10pm Tuesday 16th September 2008


DEBATE on whether drivers should be fined for parking on grass verges is going nowhere.

The Adver last week printed a letter from Margaret Price, of Old Town, who describes the damage caused by cars and vans on grass verges as shameful.

Coun David Glaholm (Ind, Penhill) has called for Swindon Council to unleash traffic wardens on drivers who park on grass.

But But Coun Peter Greenhalgh, the council’s cabinet member for highways, transport and strategic planning, says the council needs to find another answer.

He said: “I don’t believe the best solution is issuing tickets left right and centre. If there is an issue with safety then yes, I would expect officers to deal with that.

“But not on day to day activities. I would rather we came up with a practical solution.”

Coun Glaholm said: “We have a problem with cars parking on the grass between the edge of roads and footpaths all over the borough.

“It is unsightly and the grass turns into mud which is spread onto roads making them dangerous. I think it is just selfish, as most drivers can park in their gardens.

“To do nothing is no longer an option and we are coming into another winter and no action has been taken.”

Alan Fletcher of the Swindon and District Branch Guide Dogs For The Blind Association says cars parking on grass verges can be dangerous for people who are visually impaired.

He said: “I don’t think people realise it is illegal for them to park on the verges so I think it is important to educate people first. Then if they don’t listen, using traffic wardens may be an option.”

Last week Margaret Price’s letter appeared in the Adver calling for grass verges to be kept clear of vehicles.

Her letter said: “What really aggravates me is the number of households that think it’s okay to park their vehicles on the grass verges of the Lakeside avenues and there are several on Greywethers Avenue guilty of this.

“If it were their grass it would be different but it's not, it’s our grass, maintained by the council and paid for from our rates.

“The damage done by the cars and vans constantly being driven on to these verges is immense and can only be described as vandalism.”


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BWB, SWINDON says...
10:23pm Tue 16 Sep 08

He said: “I don’t believe the best solution is issuing tickets left right and centre. If there is an issue with safety then yes, I would expect officers to deal with that.

IN THAT CASE DEAL WITH THOSE WHO PARK ON ROAD JUNCTIONS.
cars have to pull right out in to the road In order to see whats coming.

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andynewell, Swindon says...
10:33pm Tue 16 Sep 08

It's a total disgrace some of the damage caused by parking on grass verges near where I live. In Cheney Manor Road and Vicarage Road, the council have concreted over some of the grass areas churned up by ignorant parking and turned a leafy suburb into a concrete jungle.

On Akers way, there are drivers who, through PURE LAZINESS, park on the grass outside their front door rather than walk the 50 yards necessary to park in the nearby road where there is plenty of free space. They've turned these verges into quagmires. Hope they don't complain when the council concrete over these areas too.

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malkym1, Highworth on the Hill says...
10:35pm Tue 16 Sep 08

Once again dear old Dave G puts mouth into motion before putting brain in gear --where else are we to park all the vehicles then Dave? Most older estates and central town houses were built when nobody had a car or when it was one per household max. Now there is probably three per household on average minimum! In my road alone I know of two families of four one has three cars and the other five! Two go on each drive and five go on the road - there ain't room Dave - so as Peter G rightly says -we need another solution. Surely in certain areas any grass verge that did exist is now a churned up mudbank - - dig it up tarmac it - instant parking bays - job done! Margaret Price's utopian ideal is fantasy - if they all parked on the road it'd probably get blocked and emergency vehicles face even more problems -you might not even get off your drive Margaret!

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SpeakUp, Swindon says...
11:19pm Tue 16 Sep 08

malkym1's comment is bang on - in today's world there simply isn't enough safe parking in the residential areas. Cars are usually parked partly on the verge and partly on the road simply to allow room for others to get through. Forcing them all onto the road would cause mayhem for other road users - cars, let alone lorries and ambulances etc. Parking on roads would also seriously affect visibility and cause risk to pedestrians and children suddenly appearing in front of oncoming traffic.

The council should start a programme of tarmacing verges or using the 'green grass parking' materials that are readily available.

Solutions need to be grounded in common sense, not the utopian memories of bygone decades.

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PeeGee, Swindon says...
12:45am Wed 17 Sep 08

Cllr Glaholm is right. The thought of cars crawling over kerbs and becoming illegal by entering into the mucky world of verges is just not right.

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SpeakUp, Swindon says...
1:22am Wed 17 Sep 08

PeeGee, Swindon says...
12:45am Wed 17 Sep 08
Cllr Glaholm is right.

Well I guess there's a first time for everything so you could be right. You're not, of course, but you could have been.

:-)

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Bobfm, South Marston says...
8:41am Wed 17 Sep 08

We observe yet again two things from this post, firstly how selfish some can be and secondly how little knowledge our councillors actually have. The actions complained of is a breach of the Road Traffic Act 1988 as amended.

34 Prohibition of driving motor vehicles elsewhere than on roads

(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, if without lawful authority a person drives a motor vehicle—

(a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or

(b) on any road being a footpath or bridleway,

he is guilty of an offence.

(2) It is not an offence under this section to drive a motor vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land.

(3) A person shall not be convicted of an offence under this section with respect to a vehicle if he proves to the satisfaction of the court that it was driven in contravention of this section for the purpose of saving life or extinguishing fire or meeting any other like emergency.

(4) It is hereby declared that nothing in this section prejudices the operation of—

(a) section 193 of the Law of Property Act 1925 (rights of the public over commons and waste lands), or

(b) any byelaws applying to any land,

or affects the law of trespass to land or any right or remedy to which a person may by law be entitled in respect of any such trespass or in particular confers a right to park a vehicle on any land.

It could therefore be argued under paragraph 2 that no offence is committed, although the act of doing so is still selfish in my humble opinion.

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Al Smith, Swindon says...
9:19am Wed 17 Sep 08

I'm pretty sure there is/was a byelaw against parking on grass verges in Swindon - but I could be wrong.

If there really are too many cars for parking spaces why not introduce a law like I believe they have in another overcrowed island - Japan. To buy a car any bigger than something like a Smart/Matiz you have to prove you have somewhere to park it.

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Malkym, Highworth on the hill says...
9:54am Wed 17 Sep 08

PeeGee wrote:
Cllr Glaholm is right. The thought of cars crawling over kerbs and becoming illegal by entering into the mucky world of verges is just not right.
Pee Gee - Speak Up obviously missed the irony in your post but I didn't! Nice One!

And Bobfm - with respect its all very well to quote the law, RTA 1988 etc. and its not a question of being selfish! its being practical and stating facts! May I ask how you would propose to solve the problem? You surely don't expect plod and his woodentop pseudo plod mates to go around the borough ticketing every car? It'd be like painting the Forth road bridge! Half of them wouldn't get processed and the other half wouldn't pay especially if they are one of the uninsured/unlicenced brigade to start with - have you as an individual or you as a UKIP representative perhaps have a Baldrick style "cunning plan" to solve this dilemma? Oh, and I speak as a one person, one car owner who due to mid 1970's building plans is unable to park in my separate garage because its not wide enough for anything bigger than a Smart car! so I park in the ajoining car park OR!!! Yep! ON THE ROAD -but not on the verges -we don't have any!

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ItsPavAgain, Swindon says...
10:14am Wed 17 Sep 08

I actually have a lot of sympathy with the Lawn woman. There really is no reason why people should be parking cars on grass verges, pavements or any other area that isn't specifically designated for car parking.

And malkym1 - I'm afraid I disagree with your comment. People should consider where they are going be park their car before they buy one, not after. A household with four cars but only room to park two is both inconsiderate and selfish in my opinion.

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Bobfm, South Marston says...
10:24am Wed 17 Sep 08

Now here's a novel idea, park it on the road, if it doesn't cause an obstruction. If there isn't a space and you don't have a drive or garage, many of which are never used despite people claiming on insurance applications that their cars are garaged ( a case of fraud). Then one would suggest in the nearest car park. I agree with ItsPavAgain's comments.

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Malkym, Highworth on the hill says...
10:38am Wed 17 Sep 08

I-P-A - maybe people should decide where they park their cars but the fact is they don't and many properties dont have any parking access - are you seriously trying to say that nobody should buy a car unless they have somewhere to park it off road - that's abit "I'm alright Jack" isn't it? I agree our little island is becoming increasingly overcrowded but the economic climate might come to the aid of those who wish to see less rather than more vehicles around but if that concept is to work then sure as hell the public transport infrastructure has to improve big time! I do agree that in some cases there are people that are too lazy, obese, and bone idle to walk more than a few yards to their front door, but there are certainly also areas where a genuine lack of parking spaces causes problems.

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Even Angrier Monkey, Swindon says...
11:19am Wed 17 Sep 08

Problem - Not enough parking spaces so people park on grass verges.

Solution - Tarmac sections of the verges to create more parking spaces. Problem solved.

Why do people make such hard work of things?


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Malkym, Highworth on the hill says...
11:49am Wed 17 Sep 08

EAM - exactly - and exactly what I said in my original post - and there is another bonus - the council's grass cutting gang won't need to come out, cut what grass is left, and leave clippings all over the place - less council tax as money saved! QED!

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ItsPavAgain, Swindon says...
12:04pm Wed 17 Sep 08

Malkym wrote:
EAM - exactly - and exactly what I said in my original post - and there is another bonus - the council's grass cutting gang won't need to come out, cut what grass is left, and leave clippings all over the place - less council tax as money saved! QED!
So what about all the other people who live in that road or cul-de-sac who see communal grass verges tarmac-ed over so that one household can part their fleet of cars?

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Malkym, Highworth on the hill says...
12:24pm Wed 17 Sep 08

I-P-A- I think you'll find it'll be all or most of the cul-de-sac! - bet you most of them would have at least two! Hubby, wifey one each at least - off road 4 x4 parked on the verge! well that'd be the only time they'd ever use it off road!

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Bobfm, South Marston says...
12:53pm Wed 17 Sep 08

'I do agree that in some cases there are people that are too lazy, obese, and bone idle to walk more than a few yards to their front door', I see the Lib-dems have a solution for this, tax credits for all those who don't abuse their bodies and belong to leisure clubs. Great idea everyone fit and healthy and live longer, ops, what about the lack of resources for pensions, and the fact that research shows fit and healthy people cost the state more in the long term with long term ill health in later years, from the likes of Parkinsons etc.

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ourtone, says...
1:38pm Wed 17 Sep 08

Pee Gee, I have to say Dave G (hes a caution,) is the man to talk about parking problems. He knows how easy it is to get into trouble if you accidently park in the worng place several times. He just wants to kerb bad habits, crawling onto the grass etc.


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RF1, Swindon says...
1:47pm Wed 17 Sep 08

I live in a cul-de-sac close and the last few houses have access only by footpath with a grass verge cushion to the garden gates. Cars used to be parked on the grass outside these house until all of us in the close were sent a letter by the council saying that parking on the grass was not permitted and that action would be taken against those that did.
Initially it had the desired effect as residents stopped parking their cars on the grass. However, months on, they are all doing it again - so were is the promised action from out council of idiots?
As usual all mouth and no trousers - I think sometimes we would be better off with no council at all.

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Malkym, Highworth on the hill says...
2:30pm Wed 17 Sep 08

ourtone wrote:
Pee Gee, I have to say Dave G (hes a caution,) is the man to talk about parking problems. He knows how easy it is to get into trouble if you accidently park in the worng place several times. He just wants to kerb bad habits, crawling onto the grass etc.
Ourtone -your cautionary tale is indeed correct, its very easy as a driver to get into bad habits when you attempt to park in or on restricted areas, double yellow lines, on/off the kerb, residents parking zones etc. But if one is caught red handed with one's trouser's down and one has to come clean then the advice can only be proceed with caution don't you think?

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ItsPavAgain, Swindon says...
3:19pm Wed 17 Sep 08

Malkym wrote:
I-P-A- I think you'll find it'll be all or most of the cul-de-sac! - bet you most of them would have at least two! Hubby, wifey one each at least - off road 4 x4 parked on the verge! well that'd be the only time they'd ever use it off road!
On the contrary. My experience is that most people are very considerate about how and where they park and they will always use their own garages and driveways where possible.

Only a tiny minority of inconsiderate households will park their cars where ever they feel like it, but this action by a small number of people can very quickly blight an area.

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scottyincs, says...
4:02pm Wed 17 Sep 08

We have a problem in Purton with people who believe that, if there's no yellow lines, it's ok to park. Legally, I guess they're right, but just because it's legal to park right outside a shop near a busy junction, doesn't mean it's not stupid and inconsiderate to do so and cause near gridlock in the rush hour when there's a lay-by (and here's the bit that shows why they do it) about 10 yards away

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Malkym, Highworth on the hill says...
4:32pm Wed 17 Sep 08

Scotty- only if they're not causing an obstruction or a hazard to other motorists or pedestrians - this is where Bobfm and Road Traffic Act 1988 and the good old highway code come back into the equation not that Mr Inconsiderate of Purton or anywhere else will worry about parking safely and walking that extra 10 yds which would probably help many of their waistlines as well!

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I Too, Swindon says...
4:50pm Wed 17 Sep 08

David Glaholm also insists that dogs should never be allowed off the lead.
What a worthy individual he is?

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PeeGee, Swindon says...
6:01pm Wed 17 Sep 08

Malkym wrote:
ourtone wrote:Pee Gee, I have to say Dave G (hes a caution,) is the man to talk about parking problems. He knows how easy it is to get into trouble if you accidently park in the worng place several times. He just wants to kerb bad habits, crawling onto the grass etc. Ourtone -your cautionary tale is indeed correct, its very easy as a driver to get into bad habits when you attempt to park in or on restricted areas, double yellow lines, on/off the kerb, residents parking zones etc. But if one is caught red handed with one's trouser's down and one has to come clean then the advice can only be proceed with caution don't you think?
The photo of Cllr Glaholm doing the business at the roadside of having his photo taken appears to be a perfectly clean, not parked on verge. May I suggest he looks in other parts of Swindon for this business. I would suggest he does this at night while traffic is quieter so this business can be carried out with less risk to him.

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AGINGER, South Marston says...
7:53pm Wed 17 Sep 08

Come on then all you brainboxes in Swindon,Why is grass growing there anyway? it serves no purpose other than animal toilet, and causing much expensive work for 8 months of the year in mowing.
The way things are going,this spare ground will be needed for growing food,not parking motor cars.

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P3 NAS Mark II, Swindon says...
9:07pm Wed 17 Sep 08

I used to have to park on a grass verge in a street I used to live in because cars parked either side.

It was either that or be a serious obstruction to emergency vehicles, who incidentally have the right to get your car out of the way in the quickest manner should you be obstructing their route to said emergency.

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Swindon Local, Swindon says...
6:38am Thu 18 Sep 08

Just one question for anyone who decides to park on a grass verge, or even the path. If I have to walk out into the road and get hit by another vehicle will you pay my bills while I am off work. Of course not. I say fine them all a minimum £200 payable in 7 days.

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fuzzy, Ferndale Rd. (Sometimes) says...
3:02pm Thu 18 Sep 08

A couple of points.

Why do so many people need cars? Surley mum and/ or dad can walk the littleuns to school. reduce the number of cars we rely on!

As for what is the grass verge for? Drainage is one thing. One of the reasons for flooding in may urban areas at the moment is that so many front gardens and grassed areas are being paved over to provide parking that the runoff during heavy rain, that used to soak away into the ground, is now overwhelming the drains.

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Coun David Glaholm wants cars to stay off grass verges. Coun David Glaholm wants cars to stay off grass verges.


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