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WEBCHAT: With Justin Tomlinson
12:00pm Monday 13th October 2008
THE Adver would like to welcome Coun Justin Tomlinson who is taking part in the first of our series of webchats on elected mayors.
Coun Tomlinson will be online between midday and 1pm today so you can grill him on the issues surrounding elected mayors and whether we should have a referendum in Swindon.
Your Vote
Do you want a referendum on an elected mayor for Swindon and if we had one, how would you vote? (Please answer both parts of the question)
- Yes, I want a referendum: 30%
- No, I do not want a referendum: 23%
- In a referendum, I would vote for an elected mayor: 27%
- In a referendum, I would vote against an elected mayor: 20%
We would ask you to abide by our usual rules: any comments which are abusive or do not comply with Newsquest policy will be removed.
Your Say YourSwindon
Web Team, Swindon says...
12:03pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Hi Justin,
Thought I'd get the ball rolling by asking what you think the pros and cons of an elected mayor would be.
Gill
Thought I'd get the ball rolling by asking what you think the pros and cons of an elected mayor would be.
Gill
Geoff Reid, West Swindon says...
12:06pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Geoff Reid, West Swindon says...
11:51am Mon 13 Oct 08
Before we go roaring into this weeks webchats with various people, may I suggest we start the discussion with some reflection on how the current leader & cabinet, (Westminster style), system of leadership was adopted without debate by the Boroughs councillors in 2001....
....and the vote was taken just minutes after the leader of the Council, (Sue Bates), and the entire administration had resigned and left the council chamber.
That's a better place to start.
11:51am Mon 13 Oct 08
Before we go roaring into this weeks webchats with various people, may I suggest we start the discussion with some reflection on how the current leader & cabinet, (Westminster style), system of leadership was adopted without debate by the Boroughs councillors in 2001....
....and the vote was taken just minutes after the leader of the Council, (Sue Bates), and the entire administration had resigned and left the council chamber.
That's a better place to start.
Big Mac, Old Town says...
12:06pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Justin, would any elected mayor have any influence or responsibility over Swindon's magistrates and judges?
At the moment, their ineffectual sentencing is the most concerning aspect of what's going on in this town.
Maybe if we move to a system of elected mayors we might also consider having elected police chiefs who are actually accountable?
At the moment, their ineffectual sentencing is the most concerning aspect of what's going on in this town.
Maybe if we move to a system of elected mayors we might also consider having elected police chiefs who are actually accountable?
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:08pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Web Team wrote:I personally am still undecided, but the main arguements so far seem to have been:
Hi Justin, Thought I'd get the ball rolling by asking what you think the pros and cons of an elected mayor would be. Gill
Pro - Strengthens the role of an individual which in turn may raise the profile of the Council, giving greater weight to stand up to the Government to argue for fairer funding. May also create additional interest in the electoral process.
Against - Increases the power in one individual for a fixed term. A Mayoral election will also cost money and for many of the towns which have adopted the Mayoral it really hasn't helped both in terms of the electoral interest and performance of the local Council.
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:12pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Geoff Reid wrote:Hi Geoff,
Geoff Reid, West Swindon says... 11:51am Mon 13 Oct 08 Before we go roaring into this weeks webchats with various people, may I suggest we start the discussion with some reflection on how the current leader & cabinet, (Westminster style), system of leadership was adopted without debate by the Boroughs councillors in 2001.... ....and the vote was taken just minutes after the leader of the Council, (Sue Bates), and the entire administration had resigned and left the council chamber. That's a better place to start.
The Government changed the way local Councils operated away from the committee system to the Cabinet system. I have only ever know the Cabinet system so can't really comment on the two systems with any authority or experience.
As to the 2001 meeting, if memory serves me right it was one of the last items on a very long agenda (I think the meeting went onto 1am) and as you said shortly after Sue Bates's administration had imploded, so everything was in a state of flux. In addition the report presented was based on an extremely limited consultation, not good for such a potentially important decision.
The Council should not make the same mistake again.
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:14pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Big Mac wrote:I don't think they would, which is one of the potential frustrations. If we were to adopt an elected Mayor, the Government should give the Mayor increased powers that way they would have the teeth to deal with the issues that do bother local residents.
Justin, would any elected mayor have any influence or responsibility over Swindon's magistrates and judges? At the moment, their ineffectual sentencing is the most concerning aspect of what's going on in this town. Maybe if we move to a system of elected mayors we might also consider having elected police chiefs who are actually accountable?
I agree with you about the elected police chiefs too.
Bobfm, South Marston says...
12:14pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Given that the elected Mayor would appoint the Cabinet, would this not be more democratic as he/she could appoint from any of the Councillors, thus removing the automatic presumption now that anything the Tories want, they get etc.
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:20pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Bobfm wrote:At present the Leader & Cabinet is selected by the ruling group, which is the one who has had the most Councillors elected through the demoncratic process. At present that is us (Conservatives), following us polling 55% of the vote in this years local election and currently having 43 of the 59 Councillors. This doesn't preclude opposition Councillors, though at present there are none in the Cabinet, but the Chair of Scrutiny which holds Cabinet to account is an opposition member.
Given that the elected Mayor would appoint the Cabinet, would this not be more democratic as he/she could appoint from any of the Councillors, thus removing the automatic presumption now that anything the Tories want, they get etc.
It depends on the system, if the Mayor had the final say they could indeed select any of the 59 Councillors for their Cabinet. In other towns this has tended to be exclusively selected from the group they represent, so in effect the status quo. However there have also been examples where the Mayor's fellow group have been bashed in the annual elections before there fixed term leaving them no choice but to select a Cabinet of opposition as that is the electoral will. However the Mayor then simply overrules, by-passing the electoral will.
Bobfm, South Marston says...
12:24pm Mon 13 Oct 08
'exclusively selected from the group they represent', which is precisely the point I have made that no one of party persuasion should be eligible.
Do you agree with this.
Do you agree with this.
Big Mac, Old Town says...
12:27pm Mon 13 Oct 08
I agree with Bob, I would much prefer a mayor who had no political party affiliations - or at least give the electorate the option of voting for somebody who hasn't.
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:30pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Bobfm wrote:No - it is for the people of Swindon to decide who should represent them.
'exclusively selected from the group they represent', which is precisely the point I have made that no one of party persuasion should be eligible. Do you agree with this.
If people wish to elect a Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem or a candidate not connected to a main political parties then that is their democratic right.
Geoff Reid, West Swindon says...
12:30pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Justin, you said:
"In addition the report presented was based on an extremely limited consultation, not good for such a potentially important decision.
The Council should not make the same mistake again."
I'm glad you agree that adopting the current system under those circumstances was a mistake.
Firstly, do you agree that:
1. The issue should have been thoroughly debated at the time, probably at extraordinary meetings of full council.
and:
2. The situation and laws regarding directly elected leaders changed in 2007 to give Swindons voters the choice of two leadership systems for their council, i.e, Directly electing their own leader (Elected Mayor), or consenting to allow Councillors to continue appointing a leader from the largest political party.
..And therefore it would be entirely appropriate that Swindon Borough Council revisit this constitutional issue as a matter of urgency and correct the mistakes made by the previous administration?
"In addition the report presented was based on an extremely limited consultation, not good for such a potentially important decision.
The Council should not make the same mistake again."
I'm glad you agree that adopting the current system under those circumstances was a mistake.
Firstly, do you agree that:
1. The issue should have been thoroughly debated at the time, probably at extraordinary meetings of full council.
and:
2. The situation and laws regarding directly elected leaders changed in 2007 to give Swindons voters the choice of two leadership systems for their council, i.e, Directly electing their own leader (Elected Mayor), or consenting to allow Councillors to continue appointing a leader from the largest political party.
..And therefore it would be entirely appropriate that Swindon Borough Council revisit this constitutional issue as a matter of urgency and correct the mistakes made by the previous administration?
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:33pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Big Mac wrote:Well that potentially could be the case if someone puts themselves forward and local residents voted them in.
I agree with Bob, I would much prefer a mayor who had no political party affiliations - or at least give the electorate the option of voting for somebody who hasn't.
Would they win? A man in a monkey costume did in Hartlepool...
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:37pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Geoff Reid wrote:1 - Clearly having key issues still to be debated at 1am in the morning was not prudent. In hindsight the Council should have moved the remaining items onto another meeting.
Justin, you said: "In addition the report presented was based on an extremely limited consultation, not good for such a potentially important decision. The Council should not make the same mistake again." I'm glad you agree that adopting the current system under those circumstances was a mistake. Firstly, do you agree that: 1. The issue should have been thoroughly debated at the time, probably at extraordinary meetings of full council. and: 2. The situation and laws regarding directly elected leaders changed in 2007 to give Swindons voters the choice of two leadership systems for their council, i.e, Directly electing their own leader (Elected Mayor), or consenting to allow Councillors to continue appointing a leader from the largest political party. ..And therefore it would be entirely appropriate that Swindon Borough Council revisit this constitutional issue as a matter of urgency and correct the mistakes made by the previous administration?
2 - This issue was debated at the last Full Council. It was agreed if local residents showed sufficient interest in this issue then it should go out to a referendum. I have to say though, I still have not had a single person contact me directly about this issue.
I am genuinely undecided as to whether it would be a good ro bad thing for Swindon, but at the moment my main concern is that it isn't really a priority for local residents.
It may be the work of your Talk Swindon website, plus the extensive coverage in the Adver may spark interest - in which case that is the will of the people.
Geoff Reid, West Swindon says...
12:40pm Mon 13 Oct 08
"Would they win? A man in a monkey costume did in Hartlepool..."
...and he keeps on winning.
Stuart Drummond has proved remarkably popular and effective as a directly elected leader....
...whereas many council appointed leaders have proved themselves to be complete monkeys!
(That isn't an observation on Rod Bluh's leadership btw)
Bobfm, South Marston says...
12:40pm Mon 13 Oct 08
You mention the monkey suit, but have you forgotten he did and extremely good job and was re-elected.
Perhaps the Monkey suit illustrates the lack of support the effective 2 party system has. Do you not believe it is the roll of every politician to engender a sense of value in our political system so that 'Comic Events' of this nature do not continue.
Perhaps the Monkey suit illustrates the lack of support the effective 2 party system has. Do you not believe it is the roll of every politician to engender a sense of value in our political system so that 'Comic Events' of this nature do not continue.
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:46pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Bobfm wrote:You are spot on.
You mention the monkey suit, but have you forgotten he did and extremely good job and was re-elected. Perhaps the Monkey suit illustrates the lack of support the effective 2 party system has. Do you not believe it is the roll of every politician to engender a sense of value in our political system so that 'Comic Events' of this nature do not continue.
In the case of Hartlepool the local residents thought he was the best option and to his credit after the 'shock' of winning he rolled his sleeves up and apparently did well and was re-elected (not as a monkey mind).
Yes it is the roll of every politician to do their best, regardless of Party (Big and small) - if they don't you will lose the support of local residents.
In the majority of Mayoral elections independents haven't done well at, including London. But if people wanted to stand under their own banner, good luck to them.
Geoff Reid, West Swindon says...
12:52pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Justin said:
"I still have not had a single person contact me directly about this issue."
I've received several hundred communications regarding this.
Take from this what you will but I'm thinking that the public are far more interested in it than Councillors are.
It's early days yet Justin, far too soon to be repeating the summary of the 2001 SBC consultation which said: "There is little interest in Elected Mayors".
Absence of letters in your in tray is not proof of absence of interest.
"I still have not had a single person contact me directly about this issue."
I've received several hundred communications regarding this.
Take from this what you will but I'm thinking that the public are far more interested in it than Councillors are.
It's early days yet Justin, far too soon to be repeating the summary of the 2001 SBC consultation which said: "There is little interest in Elected Mayors".
Absence of letters in your in tray is not proof of absence of interest.
Bobfm, South Marston says...
12:53pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Your response Justin brings us full circle, the party system is indeed a bar to a truly Independent Mayor, given the power and influence of the party machine on 'their' supporters. Take away the political element, and hey presto you have someone who could re-vitalise local democracy, and trigger voter enthusiasm.
KeepItReal_, Swindon says...
12:55pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Justin. Who are you and why are you qualified to answer these questions?
Thanks
Thanks
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:56pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Geoff Reid wrote:Could be so - to be fair I can only comment on what I have seen my from my inbox / post bag. If local residents want it to happen then they can support your petition and we will have a referendum.
Justin said: "I still have not had a single person contact me directly about this issue." I've received several hundred communications regarding this. Take from this what you will but I'm thinking that the public are far more interested in it than Councillors are. It's early days yet Justin, far too soon to be repeating the summary of the 2001 SBC consultation which said: "There is little interest in Elected Mayors". Absence of letters in your in tray is not proof of absence of interest.
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:58pm Mon 13 Oct 08
KeepItReal_ wrote:Hi,
Justin. Who are you and why are you qualified to answer these questions? Thanks
I have been one of the Councillors for the Abbey Meads ward since 2000.
I am currently also the Lead Member for Leisure, Recreation & Culture in the Cabinet.
I am also the candidate for the Conservatives in North Swindon for the General Election.
I believe the Advertiser are inviting people to do the web chat throughout the week and they asked me to do today, so here I am!
KeepItReal_, Swindon says...
12:58pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Im not being cheeky, just that I dont know. The adver should think about putting up some background info on you and explain why you are doin this - yes.
Web Team, Swindon says...
12:59pm Mon 13 Oct 08
KeepItReal_ wrote:Sorry - fair point! Will do so for our next webchat candidate.
Im not being cheeky, just that I dont know. The adver should think about putting up some background info on you and explain why you are doin this - yes.
Geoff Reid, West Swindon says...
1:01pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Justin mentioned the Talkswindon forum earlier, (a little disparagingly perhaps), but whatever his feelings on the forum it does contain the best source of local information and debate on directly elected leaders.
This is an invitation to continue this discussion after the webchat closes:
A discussion topic on the Talkwindon forum awaits.....
http://www.talkswind
on.org/index.php?top
ic=3735.msg21264#msg
21264
Meanwhile, thanks Justin.
This is an invitation to continue this discussion after the webchat closes:
A discussion topic on the Talkwindon forum awaits.....
http://www.talkswind
on.org/index.php?top
ic=3735.msg21264#msg
21264
Meanwhile, thanks Justin.
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
1:01pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Bobfm wrote:The party system does also allow local residents to have an idea of what the respective candidates are likely to do as they sign up to their respective manifestos.
Your response Justin brings us full circle, the party system is indeed a bar to a truly Independent Mayor, given the power and influence of the party machine on 'their' supporters. Take away the political element, and hey presto you have someone who could re-vitalise local democracy, and trigger voter enthusiasm.
At the end of the day pretty much anyone can stand for election, whether it is under a Party banner (as I choose to do) or as an independent. The electorate then have the final say as we all must be elected!
Big Mac, Old Town says...
1:01pm Mon 13 Oct 08
I am all for an election for our mayor, however, I do feel Justin is probably right about apathy generally. No matter how much we may want it to happen, most people just do not care about such things.
At this particular time, many in the town are far more concerned about high fuel prices as we move into the colder months, higher food prices generally, the security of their employment, whether or not they'll ever be able to get a mortgage, how much money has been wiped off the value of their home etc.
I'm not convinced that most people are concerned enough about wanting an elected mayor to make it come about. Unfortunately, one of the problems with democracy is that people take it for granted.
At this particular time, many in the town are far more concerned about high fuel prices as we move into the colder months, higher food prices generally, the security of their employment, whether or not they'll ever be able to get a mortgage, how much money has been wiped off the value of their home etc.
I'm not convinced that most people are concerned enough about wanting an elected mayor to make it come about. Unfortunately, one of the problems with democracy is that people take it for granted.
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
1:02pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Geoff Reid wrote:Not at all - I think you have an excellent forum and I am all for you pushing on issues, including this one.
Justin mentioned the Talkswindon forum earlier, (a little disparagingly perhaps), but whatever his feelings on the forum it does contain the best source of local information and debate on directly elected leaders. This is an invitation to continue this discussion after the webchat closes: A discussion topic on the Talkwindon forum awaits..... http://www.talkswind on.org/index.php?top ic=3735.msg21264#msg 21264 Meanwhile, thanks Justin.
Web Team, Swindon says...
1:02pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Thank you to Justin and everyone else for taking part in this webchat, which is now coming to an end.
If you wish to continue debating the issue of elected mayors, please visit our dedicated section at http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
mayor/.
Thank you.
If you wish to continue debating the issue of elected mayors, please visit our dedicated section at http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
mayor/.
Thank you.
FlabbyGeek, Swindon says...
1:04pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Hi Justin,
Can you 'come clean' over the lack of progress on the town centre regeneration?
The college has been clear of asbestos for months and yet the building is still standing. Rumours are rife that the developers are facing administration and that this land will soon be part of that administration. What is going on here? Bach Homes, the Locarno developers, are already in administration. The Union Square development agreement has been 'due to be signed shortly' for 14 months. The Regent Place scheme has been delayed for 2 years.
Can you just be honest and say that the major developments in the town centre have been de-railed by the economic 'crisis'. To be clear, the Library is NOT a major development, Wharf Green is NOT a major development and if the replacement Brunel canopies are a major developments, we're in serious trouble.
Running up to May 1st, the college site played a key part in the Conservative literature. It was used as an example of an achievement then, so can you now give us an honest update?
Many thanks
Can you 'come clean' over the lack of progress on the town centre regeneration?
The college has been clear of asbestos for months and yet the building is still standing. Rumours are rife that the developers are facing administration and that this land will soon be part of that administration. What is going on here? Bach Homes, the Locarno developers, are already in administration. The Union Square development agreement has been 'due to be signed shortly' for 14 months. The Regent Place scheme has been delayed for 2 years.
Can you just be honest and say that the major developments in the town centre have been de-railed by the economic 'crisis'. To be clear, the Library is NOT a major development, Wharf Green is NOT a major development and if the replacement Brunel canopies are a major developments, we're in serious trouble.
Running up to May 1st, the college site played a key part in the Conservative literature. It was used as an example of an achievement then, so can you now give us an honest update?
Many thanks
Geoff Reid, West Swindon says...
1:05pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Web Team wrote:
Thank you to Justin and everyone else for taking part in this webchat, which is now coming to an end.
If you wish to continue debating the issue of elected mayors, please visit our dedicated section at http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
mayor/.
Thank you.
Not long enough!
Put me down for at least 2 hours tomorrow....
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
1:05pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Big Mac wrote:Aye - we would all like to see more people engagement in the process.
I am all for an election for our mayor, however, I do feel Justin is probably right about apathy generally. No matter how much we may want it to happen, most people just do not care about such things. At this particular time, many in the town are far more concerned about high fuel prices as we move into the colder months, higher food prices generally, the security of their employment, whether or not they'll ever be able to get a mortgage, how much money has been wiped off the value of their home etc. I'm not convinced that most people are concerned enough about wanting an elected mayor to make it come about. Unfortunately, one of the problems with democracy is that people take it for granted.
We all have to look at how we do things, whether as politicians, local residents, the Council, the Government or residents themselves.
As I have said on the issue of an elected Mayor for Swindon, I am undecided if it is right for us - if it would spark interest then that would be a plus for sure.
KeepItReal_, Swindon says...
1:07pm Mon 13 Oct 08
FlabbyGeek wrote:Very very good points mate. I want answers too! Today if possible.
Hi Justin, Can you 'come clean' over the lack of progress on the town centre regeneration? The college has been clear of asbestos for months and yet the building is still standing. Rumours are rife that the developers are facing administration and that this land will soon be part of that administration. What is going on here? Bach Homes, the Locarno developers, are already in administration. The Union Square development agreement has been 'due to be signed shortly' for 14 months. The Regent Place scheme has been delayed for 2 years. Can you just be honest and say that the major developments in the town centre have been de-railed by the economic 'crisis'. To be clear, the Library is NOT a major development, Wharf Green is NOT a major development and if the replacement Brunel canopies are a major developments, we're in serious trouble. Running up to May 1st, the college site played a key part in the Conservative literature. It was used as an example of an achievement then, so can you now give us an honest update? Many thanks
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
1:11pm Mon 13 Oct 08
Thank you to everyone who took the time to post questions etc, I have done my best to give both sides from my perspective.
For those who wanted to ask questions which weren't to do with the Mayoral issue please don't hesitate to contact me directly and I will respond.
For those who wanted to ask questions which weren't to do with the Mayoral issue please don't hesitate to contact me directly and I will respond.
Your sayYourSwindon
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Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
12:03pm Mon 13 Oct 08