House of Fraser goes bargain basement (From Swindon Advertiser)
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House of Fraser goes bargain basement
9:50am Thursday 16th October 2008 in News
House of Fraser
HOUSE of Fraser’s decision to turn its Swindon store into a bargain basement outlet could turn shoppers away from the town.
Jo Stagg, the president of Swindon Chamber of Commerce, said the High Street chain was dumbing down its store by bringing in end-of-the line branded stock and special make-up products tailored to local markets.
The retail giant will be closed for three days next month and reopen on November 29 as the rebranded House of Fraser Outlet.
Between 60 and 70 per cent of the new store’s stock will come from House of Fraser’s core chain.
Ms Stagg said the changes to the flagship store would make shopping centres in other nearby towns and cities more attractive to shoppers.
She said: “They are looking at their business model as are other businesses in light of the fact that times are tough.
“Personally, I would be disappointed if they turned themselves into an outlet.
“It would be a pity and make it more difficult to compete with places like Cabot Circus in Bristol.
“To dumb it down would not be portraying the town with aspiration and prosperity.
“Ultimately it’s their decision. They have to make the decision that’s right for them.”
Peter James, the chief executive of the New Swindon Company, said House of Fraser’s decision was disappointing.
“If House of Fraser closed down it would be awful,” he said.
“As an outlet it will have a new image and offer new brands to the public.
“They will refurbish the shop and change the facade.
“I wouldn’t say its gone downmarket. The pound shops have already done that.
“But it reinforces the importance to get on with the Regent Place shopping centre.”
Don McCarthy, the chairman of House Of Fraser, said the decision to form the House of Fraser Outlet was not the direct result from the downturn in Icelandic firm Baugur, which has shares in the company.
Shoppers were less than enthusiastic about the changes to House of Fraser.
Christina Grainge, 43, from Highworth, said: “I think it’s a bad idea. We already have a outlet centre so why would we want another one? We have enough downmarket shops already.”
Lizze Brinkworth, 24, from Chippenham, said: “House of Fraser is known for its good quality clothes and now it’ll be full of cheap tat. I’m not impressed.”
Mechanical engineer Michael Martin, 51, from Stratton, said: “I’ve often wondered why it was in Swindon in the first place. It seems out of place. Perhaps of where it’s positioned in town.”
Mark Leslie, 35, from Oxford, said: “I come here to buy my suits. I would have a look in still. It depends what they had on offer.”
Comments(56)
Big Mac
says...
10:12am Thu 16 Oct 08
“It would be a pity and make it more difficult to compete with places like Cabot Circus in Bristol."
This is some sort of joke, surely? Swindon town center cannot remotely compete with Cabot Circus.
Talk about summing Swindon up... we'll have Wharf Green (a place made entirely from concrete) with a huge widescreen TV bookended by McDonalds and a bargain basement of House of Fraser.
And let's not forget the closed down, boarded up 'visionary' tented market within spitting distance.
House of Fraser was the one and only high quality retail store in Swindon town centre... and now even that has gone discount.
Bobfm
says...
10:22am Thu 16 Oct 08
Is it any wonder they are going down market. When is reality going to set in to our Council. Swindon only became a growing hub because we allowed major companies to come for 'free'.
Other towns with better road networks and infrastructure are taking the lion share of the retail market and Swindon is floundering. None of us like it but reality has reared it's head and our Councillors still cling to Grand ideas which is now beyond the town for the medium term.
Their new Swindon Business Charter contains details of their perception and ideas for the future which is still based on the 'delusion' that major retailers and more corporate business will come to Swindon. Ten years of dithering means we have missed the boat.
Al Smith
says...
10:35am Thu 16 Oct 08
The Regent Place development (if and when it gets built) won't be in the same league as Bristol and Bath. I feel going open air shopping centre as opposed to an enclosed mall will prove to be a mistake.
The only really good shopping destination in Swindon is the Outlet Village - which is likely to weather the coming storm fairly well by sell cheap brand name goods (which I think is what HoF are thinking as well).
Big Mac
says...
10:38am Thu 16 Oct 08
When is reality going to set in to our Council. Swindon only became a growing hub because we allowed major companies to come for 'free'.
Very true, Bob. House of Fraser themselves only came here because of the peppercorn rent offered to them.
Psychotic Sid
says...
10:56am Thu 16 Oct 08
Agree, that to compare Cabot Circus or even Cribbs to Swindon is ridiculous - we haven't got anythign like that.
Even Newbury has a better atmosphere and some original shops (not offering end of line stuff).
Ankh
says...
10:56am Thu 16 Oct 08
Old Town
says...
11:15am Thu 16 Oct 08
I used to love Swindon - now I am quickly finding I cannot stand the place...My wife and kids have been verbally abused outside HoF by the druggies and drunks and teenage mum's and their "men" who sit there because they have nothing better to do....
Is it any wonder HoF want to dumb down the offering - there is a MASSIVE lack of ambition within the town and its council - our schools are some of the worst in the country - and all the council are hell bent on is installing a completely stupid canal !!!
I really fear that this is just another nail in the coffin for our town.....
Ankh
says...
11:26am Thu 16 Oct 08
P3 NAS Mark II
says...
11:32am Thu 16 Oct 08
If Ted Baker is going to be a 'last season outlet' within House of Fraser then why do we need one over at the Outlet Village as well?
House of Fraser has been struggling for some time in Swindon, which is why SBC keep their rent low - basically begging them to stay.
If you walk around the clothing section on the ground floor you can tell they're desperately trying to fill space. It looks like a shop about to close down.
I still wouldn't understand why people would buy last seasons clothes at still over the top prices. If they don't buy them at full price why would they buy them when they're out of fashion?
House of Chavs is what it could be called now. That's the only people who will buy the crap.
There have been redundancies within the store too, so yet more people out of work/looking for new jobs.
Billy-o
says...
11:43am Thu 16 Oct 08
Personally, I'd been impressed with Swindon's efforts in these bleak times - Wharf Green looks far better than previously, stores have opened in the new developemnt on Holbrook Way, which I thought would never happen. There's a new 3-4* hotel being built on Fleming Way, the library is just about to open, the canopy on the Brunel is finally down, making the streets appear better, and expansion of the Brunel has started construction. The developer has signed up to retail development on the Granville Street car park. And yet people continue to moan.
Of course Swindon can't compete with huge places like Bristol and Cardiff, but it remains a well equipped shopping centre. Swindon is faring remarkably well, when there is much to be worried about. You live in a town that's doing pretty well in the circumstances. Give it some **** support!!
Psychotic Sid
says...
11:57am Thu 16 Oct 08
It's a clear sign that the town is in trouble as it's had zero improvement for years.
Old Town
says...
12:01pm Thu 16 Oct 08
What a lot of nonsense !
Support what ? My kids cannot get a good education - this is down to the council....
My wife and 9 year old daughter have been threatened twice in the "far better Wharf Green area" - by chavvy 20odd year old blokes off their heads on something...
New Hotel - well that will be a dead duck when people stop coming here because there are no decent shops....
Library - whooppee - only waited 40 years for that - good old forward thinking Swindon....
No canopy in the Town - so everyone gets soaking wet in the rain - forward thinking Swindon...
Granville Street car park development - do you REALLY think anyone is going to go ahead with this in the current economic climate ?
However I bet the council will try to push through a canal - rather than sorting out the main problems.
Did you know that the "wichelstowe" site will now not have a secondary school built for the kids that will live there ? So Ridgeway (already oversubscribed) and Commonweal (built for 300 kids - housing 1100) will be expected to take the potential 300 or more kids that move in - great forward planning Swindon !!!
Please do not try to defend what is not defendable !
Al Smith
says...
12:02pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Take knocking down the old brunel market to make way for a new high class department store. Wind the clock forward, the replacement market has been closed down (yet the building is still there a year on) and the high class deparment store is going bargain basement.
We're about to enter a recession and instead of development projects being finished off we are in a position where a lot have yet to start. For example I can foresee users of our new libaray staring out at the former Swindon College site for a good few years to come.
The ModFather
says...
12:27pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Billy-o
says...
12:43pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Psychotic Sid
says...
12:52pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Shouldn't we be trying to emulate succesful developing areas like Bristol's Cabot Place, rather than comparing ourselves to poorer areas and thinking we're actually quite good.
I was also born and bred Swindon and up until 4 years ago was proud to be. Now I'm not so sure, but being ten miles away allows me much more choice and much less of the badness Swindon is being overrun by.
nansview
says...
12:52pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Old Town
says...
1:18pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Completely disregard anyoe who is "moaning" about the state of our town and suggesting it is acceptable....
Sorry but it isn't
I couldn't give a monkeys that we are (as you see it) up there with other areas - we are nowhere near the better areas - and surely we should be striving towards that - not accepting we are doing OK (which I completely disagree with)
What about our schools - I have mentioned it twice and you have ignored it - did you knwo we had the WORST school in the whole country last year ? Did you know our schools are falling down - butthe council want to build a canal ???
Billy - you need to take off those rose coloured spectacles and re-join reality !
Robh
says...
1:22pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Casual Observer
says...
1:33pm Thu 16 Oct 08
On these columns you get the same old politically biased guff coming from the same old posters - often they just want an excuse for self-promotion and to knock anything that doesn't scan with their own political views (dont they Bob).
Just as well they are largely ignored by anyone with a modicum of good sense, as Stan Pajak did this morning (didn't he Bob).
Malkym
says...
1:39pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Billy-o
says...
2:14pm Thu 16 Oct 08
I don't think everything about Swindon is rose tinted. Most of Swindon's buildings and spaces are functional and mediocre, but there is more to be optimistic about here than in other places. And I'm all for aspirational - but within reality and expectations, funding constraints and political meddling. We're never going to be Bristol or London, but we're better than, say, Gloucester, and I'd rather shop here than trek to Oxford or Bath. The former is historically and architecturally great (but name a good post war building...), but the shopping centre is poor and full of buses, and the latter is just too time consuming to go to on a regular basis (and I wouldn't drive there).
And I think the canal is a terrible, ill conceived, backward idea and the biggest threat to the future of Swindon.
pinehurstbiker
says...
2:33pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Ankh
says...
2:55pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Casual Observer
says...
3:05pm Thu 16 Oct 08
"I think the picture tells the story. A typical day in the centre of Swindon, and rubbish shrewn precinct."
It's the autumn Bob... those are LEAVES!
HELLO!
Next time it snows you'll be complaining there's cotton wool everywhere.
Old Town
says...
3:43pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Blimey - I would hate to see your horrible !
nansview
says...
4:02pm Thu 16 Oct 08
nuddy2
says...
4:05pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Casual Observer
says...
4:23pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Even focusing on Warfe Green, that has very little concrete visible and is mostly wood/trees, stainless steel and with a good stone floor surface(I'm not an architect).
The new canopy is, or will be, a vast improvement over the grotty curved canopy it replaces and there are some good shops and cafes too.
For my money there are three things that need sorting out:
1 - It might be a symbol of Swindon's history but I think we need to remove the Brunel Statue and those silly plinths under it. They serve the single purpose of providing a seating area for idiotically dressed burglars, car-thieves and trouble merchants while they eat disgusting ring-donuts and cheap mystery meat products.
2 - Ban those mobile, gipsy-styled, stalls selling disgusting smelling ring-donuts and cheap mystery meat products.
3 - Increase the presence of police and enforce a zero-tolerence policy against anti-social behaviour in the town center. Including spitting, cycling, swearing, silly footwear, teenagers wearing romper-suits and ridiculous baseball caps on anybody.
Lafyor Socksoff
says...
4:24pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Even Angrier Monkey
says...
4:49pm Thu 16 Oct 08
hahahahahahaha
Casual Observer
says...
5:10pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Big Mac
says...
6:13pm Thu 16 Oct 08
tinyurl.co.uk/rtpc
Fair enough, it might not be all concrete - just stone paving and some weird wood covering the concrete multi-storey car park - but it's hardly a thriving wilderness.
Ianto
says...
7:46pm Thu 16 Oct 08
A town of this size deserves a decent shopping centre. It's about time the COuncil got a grip and its about time the silent majority got of their bums and did something aout it too. Everyone likes to moan but that's aobut it.
By the way, I'm off to Oxford on Saturday to do some shopping. ANd I went to Cardiff for the day 3 weeks ago. Now there's a nice place to shop and visit.
Grad
says...
8:33pm Thu 16 Oct 08
As for comparing Swindon to Oxford, Bristol, Cardiff... when will people realise SWINDON IS A TOWN. I live in Leeds and it has a Harvey Nichols and a population of nearly 500,000 compared to Swindon (150,000). Start comparing Swindon to similarly sized TOWNS and see how it sizes up.
Also if you feel strongly about the local council not 'sorting out' the town make darn sure you get out and vote in the next council election, write them letters, organise a campaign... just stop moaning and moaning and moaning because, if you ask me THAT is what is wrong with Swindon. Affluential apathy.
Libertarian
says...
9:13pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Old Town wrote:Old Town
Billy - you are funny !! Completely disregard anyoe who is "moaning" about the state of our town and suggesting it is acceptable.... Sorry but it isn't I couldn't give a monkeys that we are (as you see it) up there with other areas - we are nowhere near the better areas - and surely we should be striving towards that - not accepting we are doing OK (which I completely disagree with) What about our schools - I have mentioned it twice and you have ignored it - did you knwo we had the WORST school in the whole country last year ? Did you know our schools are falling down - butthe council want to build a canal ??? Billy - you need to take off those rose coloured spectacles and re-join reality !
So the fact that government spending on education in Swindon is one of the lowest in the country anything to do with it then? The spending per child in Swindon is way below average and this Labour government intend to keep it that way.
Wake up mate.
Grad
says...
9:43pm Thu 16 Oct 08
I am not well enough informed about the subject in specific relation to Swindon but I will say that as a PGCE student I have had access to many schools that are far far worse than MOST schools in Swindon. (In aesthetics and atmostphere). Swindon is a relatively new town and so are the buildings I don't think that they are 'falling apart'. I agree that Commonweal and Ridgeway are oversubscribed and this places a strain but only reinforces the fact that they are excellent schools. It is a massive exaggeration to say that "Our schools are some of the worst in the country". Bearing in mind two things: SATs are not always a good indicator of how good an education is (infact a broad fullfilling education does not always lend itself to good SAT scores) and even if they are good indicators Swindon is not near the bottom of the country overall.
I agree that more schools need to be built to incorporate the growing population, however a more constructive approach towards supporting the schools already in the area would be beneficial. Good teachers are found in all schools. I believe strongly that you shouldn't judge a school solely on its results. If you support your child and work with the teacher there is no reason that your child cannot get an A in a school where the average is a D.
Swindon may not be pretty or fashionable but compared to many other areas it is safe and it is comfortable. The number of unemployed people in some places is significantly higher. The level of crime is significantly lower than many areas...
Every area has pros and cons. Swindon is no exception but I think that LIVING in a different place will give a far different perspective to merely visiting for a day of shopping.
Big Mac
says...
10:03pm Thu 16 Oct 08
Casual Observer
says...
10:23pm Thu 16 Oct 08
clampit
says...
8:45am Fri 17 Oct 08
Old Town
says...
8:50am Fri 17 Oct 08
Why can we not aspire to be better than we are ? What is it about some people that just "accepts" that this is what we are - what a load of rubbish !
We should aspire to have the BEST schools, the BEST shopping facilities, the BEST hospitals, the BEST public transport etc.etc.etc.
Anyone who is happy to accept mediocre (at best) should be the ones ashamed of themselves...
Swindon is one of the lowest funded education areas in the country. Someone had a moan at Labour about this - are you seriously trying to tell me that it was different under the Tory's ? I think not ! Our council and our MP should have changed this years ago - but they don't have the backbone to fight it - unless it is some publicity stunt like speed camera's !
I am sorry but if you look at the results of our schools I think you will find I was factually correct - swindon has some of the worst in the country - should we aspire and fight for better - of course we should ! Should we accept that "we are sort of OK - but not that good" - no of course we should not !
southsouthwest
says...
8:53am Fri 17 Oct 08
Only now are HoF considering a site in Swansea's brand new shopping centre, so perhaps there is a hidden agenda and HoF are on the move as part of Swindon's regeneration?
Old Town
says...
9:01am Fri 17 Oct 08
Big Mac
says...
11:32am Fri 17 Oct 08
Casual Observer wrote:Typical small-minded, overly defensive reaction from a citizen of Swindon.
Er, Big Mac (or should I say Bob Mac) please go and live there then, and give us a break from your negativity. According to you, you will love it.
Instead of thinking, 'Ah, yes, let's improve the town, bring it up to standard' they simply say 'Leave then, go and live somewhere else'.
Hardly surprising House of Fraser has been forced to go bargain basement with the likes of Casual Observer around.
Casual Observer
says...
12:40pm Fri 17 Oct 08
How are erroneous comments such as "Warfe Green is made entirely of concrete" going to help?
I would like the town to improve but as it is I actually think it's not too bad. Further to that, I think it is indeed improving, elbeit slowly.
This is where we differ - you (and Bob, I can hardly tell you apart sometimes) don't seem to think that ANY of the improvements that DO happen are good or worthwile. Other people clearly do, not all, but most.
That's why I think you should live in Bristol - I'm only thinking of your personal happiness and Swindon is no better for having you here if all you do is criticise any changes.
Old Town
says...
12:56pm Fri 17 Oct 08
Sorry Casual - I do not share your lack of ambition....myself, I think we should all strive to better ourselves all the way through our lives - to settle for anything less is quite honestly alien to me.
Our town should be the same - but the trouble is that I do not see this happening..
Casual Observer
says...
1:30pm Fri 17 Oct 08
I work very hard, as I'm sure you do, I live in a lovely victorian terraced house (in lovely Old Town, lovely Swindon, where I was born and bred). I don't drive a BMW or any such 'aspirational' vehicle. My only crime, it would appear, is that I am content with this.
I'm happy for you Old Town, really I am. If it wasn't for people trying to 'better themselves' we wouldn't have estate agents would we?
HoneyPie
says...
1:49pm Fri 17 Oct 08
Oxford is overcrowded and grim. Bath will be better once they have replaced their concrete precinct. Town/city centres aren't always better somewhere else (anyone visited Bracknell??)
Salisbury is a thriving town centre, with very little in the way of 'covered' malls. It has a huge variety of both large chain stores and small, interesting, shops. It's major draw is the market at the heart of the town. Birmingham's big shopping magnet is their variety of markets.
Maybe Swindon should be looking at reviving their market credentials - not just tacking on a small area of pseudo-market stalls in a remote area of town.
Why not have real market stalls visiting on real market days, somewhere in the heart of the town? If they are located on an area that is used for car parking when the market is not operating, the council can't really lose - reasonable stall rents or parking fees.
The town was definitely more varied when there was a 'market area' within the Brunel (even though they weren't real stalls).
And more smaller specialist shops would be attractive - the usual chain stores are everywhere, so where is draw-factor here?
It isn't always a good idea to 'ape' the big players.
Casual Observer
says...
2:05pm Fri 17 Oct 08
nansview
says...
2:50pm Fri 17 Oct 08
Casual Observer
says...
3:24pm Fri 17 Oct 08
Actually I think many people hold an affinity with their home town - I just feel proud and actually quite lucky that mine is Swindon. It's a whole lot better than many I've visited and getting better all the time.
I won't mention the worst town I ever visited, that wouldn't be helpful, but for what it's worth the best town I've visited recently was Rye in East Sussex. If I came from there I'd be really proud.
Grad
says...
3:29pm Fri 17 Oct 08
As for the worst schools... I still maintain that you are exaggerating vastly for effect. Of ALL the schools in Swindon two or three of them are at the lower end of the spectrum in terms of national curriculum tests. However the cities and towns that are being highlighted as so much better than Swindon are also featured on this list. I have been in several schools and think that it is irresponsible and offensive to label all schools as rubbish in Swindon. I think it is narrow minded and inaccurate.
I agree that aspiration is a positive attribution for any town or city. Certainly no one is suggesting we do not aspire for more however aspiring for better does not imply that what exists already is rubbish.
Negativity rarely breeds success.
I do not think that Swindon is perfect, nor anywhere for that matter. However having lived in several different places I strongly believe that looking at other places without LIVING IN THEM is not a constructive comparison. For example Leeds has fabulous shopping but using Old Towns idea of schools has several on the list of worst schools... what does that mean? Well it means just that- it has fabulous shopping and apparantly some bad schools. Hardly an apt way to summarise whether or not it is a good place to live!
Back to the whole point of the article in the first place... could in be that people just aren't shopping in the House of Fraser..? Maybe it's just not as popular as Debenhams, or the outlet village? Maybe it is the negative attitude of people that live in Swindon that drives people away. Bad service in restaurants. Bad attitudes. I can tell you with absolute certainty that Leeds is far friendlier and despite the average salary being lower here people seem to take a sense of pride in their work and are eager to help. That is sadly lacking in my experience in Swindon. I have rarely experienced good customer service. People are impolite and often offhand. In Leeds shop assistants will talk to me, help me. People on the bus will say hello. People thank you for holding open a door. Perhaps THAT is something to think about?
FlabbyGeek
says...
4:00pm Fri 17 Oct 08
HoF ‘downgrading’ their Swindon store can only be a slap in the face to those trumpeting the ‘regeneration’ of the town centre, and I worry that the developers of Regent Place will struggle / continue to struggle to attract the ‘Big names’ I’d like to see. Whether or not others want the same stores as I do is another matter.
OT - we should all want to better ourselves and have a better town to live in, that’s without question as far as I’m concerned. Clearly everyone will have a different opinion of what is better, we must accept that, but I personally do think Wharf Green is better. Not perfect, but better. I find the flippant and erroneous references to ‘concrete’ as a distraction to the good points made. I also think you sometimes read what you want to read, rather than what someone is saying. Swindon is far from perfect. The ‘regeneration’ so far has been a huge disappointment, not the plans, in my opinion, or the much derided ‘vision’, but the snail like pace of change. However, I do believe there are small signs of progress, as highlighted by CO. Just because the changes aren’t to some people’s liking, does not mean the people who do like them are wrong or lacking ambition.
Regarding the comparison to Bristol, Bath etc. You can’t compare two places based on there size alone, that’s ridiculous. Bath – a world heritage site / city, international tourist destination with world renowned Georgian buildings, and with a very different demographic to Swindon. It’s apples and oranges, regardless of the size of the town. Nothing will give Swindon the same international reputation as Bath, I do not believe that’s possible, not in my lifetime anyway. If people do think there are plans ambitious enough to achieve this, please tell me what they are.
Thanks
Old Town
says...
4:24pm Fri 17 Oct 08
Mine is great - I drive an "apirational" car as you put it - I live in a lovely house...
If only our town centre lived up to the standards of the beautiful victorian terraced houses of Old Town - or the "aspirational" cars than I would be more than happy - unfortunately it does not.........
Big Mac
says...
11:07am Sat 18 Oct 08
We have some decent small music venues, with a larger one - it seems - tantilisingly on the horizon.
We have some great bars in Old Town. We have some of the very best Indian restaurants in the South.
We have some stunning park areas - the Town Gardens, Queens Park and the Lawns, all within urban centres themselves.
I absolutely adore my own home and have lived in three houses within the same 200ft triangle for over 18 years now.
However, none of this changes the fact that we have zero high quality restaurants in the town centre or Old Town, we don't seem to be able to attract the slightly higher quality High Street chains and we appear to have an identikit town centre shopping offering of pound shops, cheap chains, mobile phone shops and a high percentage of empty retail premises.
I would dearly love to see Swindon town centre become a place worth going, with interesting and diverse shops and restaurants. I'd like to see the low end co-exist with the high end, rather than everything being low end.
None of this will happen if we all simply feel we have to say, 'Swindon's great' all the time, as if wanting to do better and improve the place is some kind of treachery.
Merlins Pants
says...
8:55pm Sat 18 Oct 08
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