Dodgers owe £8m in council tax (From Swindon Advertiser)
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Dodgers owe £8m in council tax
9:10am Monday 15th December 2008 in News
COUNCIL tax dodgers in Swindon owe a massive £8m in unpaid bills, and a new league table has been released to name and shame the worst areas.
Despite the council’s collection rate of 98 per cent there are still over 15,000 court orders outstanding around the town.
In an effort to root out the cause of the problem the figures have now been broken down into wards, and produced some surprising results.
Coun Nick Martin, outgoing Swindon cabinet member for resources, said that on the whole the figures showed a link between bad debt and areas where large numbers of people were claiming benefits.
But he admitted that there were anomalies: “We have to look more carefully at these figures because for example, Abbey Meads is not one of the places with a lot of benefit claimants”, he said.
Abbey Meads comes in at fifth in the league of council tax dodgers – with over £572,000 owed from 904 court orders. The worst area is Central ward, which is £688,000 in the red with 1,390 court orders. Gorse Hill & Pinehurst, Eastcott and Parks are close behind, each owing in excess of £600,000.
The most punctual payers evidently live in Ridgeway ward, where just under £44,000 is outstanding from 71 court orders.
Coun Martin explained that over the past few years the council’s bad debt has reduced from £14m to £8m but as belts are tightened around the borough, every penny counts.
He said: “In the past few years we have been able to put more and more back in through collecting bad debt and that has benefited us in a number of budgets.
“We are very keen to reduce the debt as far as possible, but there does come a time when you do have to write it off and if we are still chasing debt that goes back to the mid-90s then we have to think carefully about whether that is wasted effort or not.
“The idea of breaking it down into wards is to help us identify areas that may have problems and see what we can do to help.”
Council officers are trying to contact customers who may have difficulty paying paying their bills, so help can be given.
Any residents on low income, who has lost their job recently or for other reason finds it hard to pay their council tax bill can call the benefits hotline on 0845 850 0962.
Comments(26)
Meldrews Dad
says...
9:16am Mon 15 Dec 08
The only sustainable answer is to reduce the council to core basics of hygene and rubbish collection and get rid of all the rest.
If central government want "services" provided then let them pay for them as a seperate organisation.
Time for a tax payers revolt.
thenoose
says...
9:44am Mon 15 Dec 08
That says it all. Why should the rest of us pay through the nose whilst spongers get away with it.
If they are on benefits then deduct the money directly. Failing that, take their houses or seize their assets.
I suppose my comments will attract the usual response from the do goody lefties, but how many of these spongers are sat at home in their leather sofas watching their brand new wide screen plasmas whilst their offspring are out causing misery.
Donkey
says...
10:17am Mon 15 Dec 08
But, regarding a predominantly Tory stronghold, Justin's patch ... it would appear that not all the debtors live in the estates and Central? You learn something new every day from the Adver.
Big Mac
says...
10:25am Mon 15 Dec 08
"The worst area is Central ward, which is £688,000 in the red with 1,390 court orders. Gorse Hill & Pinehurst, Eastcott and Parks are close behind, each owing in excess of £600,000."
Jesus wept, it'd be almost comical if it wasn't so predictable.
Where's Councillor Motaunt to chip in with an 'amusing' aside on this news story then?
Donkey, please do not try and dodge the fact that four out of five of the worst non-payment areas are Labour areas that very much fit a certain profile.
Interesting that even you appear to have expected ALL the tax dodging areas to be Labour strongholds though - you give the game away there Sir.
Why are our pensioners sent to prison for missing a couple of council tax payments, yet our friends in Central ward presumably get away with it?
This situation is utterly shameful and SBC need to get a handle on it... now!
Alligator
says...
10:40am Mon 15 Dec 08
While Central appears to have a high level of debtors, I think it worth noting that it also has a high level of multi occupancy homes, flats and bedsits, whose residents tend to be more transient and therefore harder to trace for debts. The demographic changes over recent years may now mean that the population of central is proportionatley larger than other wards and many new developments have been squeezed in since the ward boundaries were imposed.
In all areas of Swindon, I'd question whether a large number of the debtors in these figures still live in Swindon.
Big Mac
says...
10:54am Mon 15 Dec 08
That's not really any excuse though. In a lot of cases of high occupancy buildings the evidence suggests that the properties are not offically divided (specifically to cut council tax costs) and only one person's name is on the council house bill for the property.
Once there are more than two people living in such a dwelling it makes no difference to the amount of council tax owed for those properties - hence it's a clever workaround by people who have arrived here and don't mind living three or four to a room.
Your post implies that everything is being done above board and legitately in the Central ward area, when all the evidence and experience of similar areas throughout the country suggest that won't be the case.
BTW, due to the size of existing houses and the types of new developments, Old Town has a similar profile of high occupancy dwellings, flats and bedsists yet it's not in the top five tax dodgers list. Odd that.
Alligator
says...
11:28am Mon 15 Dec 08
Firstly my post wasn't attempting to offer any excuse it also doesn't imply anything about the whether, or not, everything is being done above board. I have no idea where you got that from
The point of my post is that the populations of each ward may not be the same in terms of size or make up, therefore by simply highlighting the wards where debtors come from with top level figures doesn't serve much purpose.
You're right in saying that some house conversions aren't 'officially' divided, but that doesn't change the fact that the population of HMOs is more transient and therefore more likely to leave debts behind them when they move on.
Bobfm
says...
11:38am Mon 15 Dec 08
Robh
says...
11:45am Mon 15 Dec 08
Big Mac
says...
11:54am Mon 15 Dec 08
Bobfm wrote:While I tend to agree, surely it's very plain to compare those council tax bills issued against those that are paid?
I think one has to always be careful when we see these type of figures. We are all to aware that any stats from politicians rarely add up.
Yes, it would have been more instructive to have seen the league of non-payers as a percentage of people in each area but, as I said above, areas like Central Ward ofen have very high occupancy dwellings even though the property itself may only attract the same council tax bill as the property next door that only contains two people.
As mentioned before, the evidence and experience of many different areas in the UK shows that immigrants tend to accept high occupancy dwellings and lower standards of living on the basis that it's less expensive. That being the case, those in Central Ward may be better off laying low about this as the evidence suggests that not only are the legally going to efforts to avoid paying their dues but are also very clearly illegally dodging tax as well.
scottyincs
says...
12:13pm Mon 15 Dec 08
Bobfm wrote:you should know that better than anyone else on here after your evasiveness last week!!
I think one has to always be careful when we see these type of figures. We are all to aware that any stats from politicians rarely add up.
Always Grumpy
says...
12:20pm Mon 15 Dec 08
I hope, for the sake of all of us that pay our dues, the council pursue these defaulters with the utmost vigor.
Somehow, I don't think they will as court orders mean very little to some people!
TKD4ever
says...
12:22pm Mon 15 Dec 08
BWB
says...
12:38pm Mon 15 Dec 08
You bet every penny counts.
My son of 38 lost his job when the company folded.He like many other poor sods has to pay his mortgage
and all other bills out of his
..£60.0 job seekers allowance.
His car has gone,also his TV.
His mortgage is top priority,and
Council tax bottom of the list.
You just CAN NOT pay what you dont
have.And NO there arnt any jobs out
there.He has now given up the will.
Now watch the crime rate
Go up.
ItsPavAgain
says...
2:18pm Mon 15 Dec 08
PeeveD
says...
2:26pm Mon 15 Dec 08
Hence the reason Montaut and Small have nothing to say!
BWB
says...
2:33pm Mon 15 Dec 08
ItsPavAgain wrote:
Maybe the council would publish names, address and amounts of overdue council tax and let the hard-working, tax-payers of Swindon decide what to do about it?
Good idea.
But the now hard working tax payer
might think,..there but for the
grace of God go I.
No doubt if your a out of work
Honda worker,you might get some
sympathy,to hell with the rest.
Why not restore the workhouse and
put all out of work people in it.
Al Smith
says...
3:12pm Mon 15 Dec 08
If you mean Eastcott then the profiles are very similar to Central, and so is the level of CT debt.
Old Town and Lawns ward is a very different profile, suburban as opposed to inner-city. The only 2-up 2-down terraces in Old Town and Lawns are in the Evelyn Street area.
sir lancelot
says...
4:09pm Mon 15 Dec 08
Always Grumpy wrote:Methinks you're right Grumps - if its got to the stage where these people can't pay through genuine circumstances -ala BWB's lad as opposed to those in the mix who are just benefit scroungers, then the fact that they've now received a court order will make diddly squat difference - as "the noose" says take the council tax first out of their benefits rather than let them off- I once a few years ago, having been made redundant, and then becoming re-employed on a vastly reduced salary, applied for a CT rebate - I filled in all the forms -gave over all the information of my finances which were pretty low -submitted a claim(because the guff on the CT bill indicated I was eligible to claim)only to get rejected- when querying this with SBC's CT agent -I think it might have been the dreaded Atkins then - I was rebuffed with " well mate if you've got any job it's not worth applying" - says it all really!
Whenever I read this type of headlines, I always think I'm being taken for a ride. I hope, for the sake of all of us that pay our dues, the council pursue these defaulters with the utmost vigor. Somehow, I don't think they will as court orders mean very little to some people!
Big Mac
says...
5:21pm Mon 15 Dec 08
Al Smith wrote:There are plenty of dwellings converted to flats all over Old Town - Goddard Avenue has loads of them, for example.
Big Mac - Old Town, that's a bit tricky, what bit of Old Town do you mean? The bit that is in Eastcott Ward or the bit in Old Town and Lawns Ward? If you mean Eastcott then the profiles are very similar to Central, and so is the level of CT debt. Old Town and Lawns ward is a very different profile, suburban as opposed to inner-city. The only 2-up 2-down terraces in Old Town and Lawns are in the Evelyn Street area.
Seriously, the housing profile for Old Town (as a geographical area we all accept to be Old Town) is not much different than Central Ward in many streets. There may be a lot more larger dwellings in the area but many are divided up and, if anything, I'd estimate we have far more in the way of blocks of flats in the area than in Central Ward.
The property may be more expensive, but the nature of it is very similar... there are loads of terraced streets here. I'm also not convinced that there are hundreds of simple two-up two-downs in Central Ward either, as your post implies.
All the excuses that Alligator tried to present don't really add up when we discuss the profile of type of housing alone.
Bobfm
says...
6:44pm Mon 15 Dec 08
12:13pm Mon 15 Dec 08
Bobfm wrote:
I think one has to always be careful when we see these type of figures. We are all to aware that any stats from politicians rarely add up.
you should know that better than anyone else on here after your evasiveness last week!!
It was not I who point blank refused to answer a question yes or no, and evaded it at least 4 times, because you were wrong. But that was another thread.
RFM
says...
7:00pm Mon 15 Dec 08
Too right! You should see the figures in the UKRAP's (sorry, UKIP's) manifesto!!!!!
Meanwhile, back on the ranch....
There are a large number of lettings in Abbey Meads and, if Priory Vale is included in this, the proportion rises dramatically. I wonder how much of the debt is from people who have rented for only a short term and then moved on?
doug on the farm
says...
7:49pm Mon 15 Dec 08
Always Grumpy wrote:When I saw my council tax bill of £1800 thios year I knew I was being taken for a ride!
Whenever I read this type of headlines, I always think I'm being taken for a ride. I hope, for the sake of all of us that pay our dues, the council pursue these defaulters with the utmost vigor. Somehow, I don't think they will as court orders mean very little to some people!
Alligator
says...
9:21pm Mon 15 Dec 08
However Al Smith has highlighted that there is a difference in the make up of each ward. This is the same point that I was making, but has been sadly lost on you.
The fact still remains that labelling one ward good or bad is absolutely pointless when you need to look at the social breakdown of those not paying their council tax in order to get to the root of the issue. It's not about where they live or who represents their ward. There ais likely to be much more to it than that.
Big Mac
says...
9:09am Wed 17 Dec 08
There are plenty of nice big houses with nice big gardens and driveways in both Parks and Pinehurst - there are very few (if any) two-up, two-downs in those areas and the residents seem very settled as opposed to transient.
Mavis
says...
10:40pm Wed 17 Dec 08
BWB wrote:Does he not get Council Tax Benefit????, He also needs to ensure he is getting all the benefits that he is entitled to.There are jobs around but probably not the sort of wage he is used to, but if he has access to a pc, or he can use one at the local library, and it may be worth putting a CV on all the major job sites.
Coun Martin explained that over the past few years the council’s bad debt has reduced from £14m to £8m but as belts are tightened around the borough, every penny counts. You bet every penny counts. My son of 38 lost his job when the company folded.He like many other poor sods has to pay his mortgage and all other bills out of his ..£60.0 job seekers allowance. His car has gone,also his TV. His mortgage is top priority,and Council tax bottom of the list. You just CAN NOT pay what you dont have.And NO there arnt any jobs out there.He has now given up the will. Now watch the crime rate Go up.
I know how difficult it is, having been made redundanta couple of times in the late 90s .Good Luck to him.
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