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10,500 council houses may be handed to housing association (From Swindon Advertiser)
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with 'SWINDON NEWS'
10,500 council houses may be handed to housing association
9:10am Wednesday 17th December 2008
THOUSANDS of Swindon people could soon have a new landlord.
And if all goes to plan millions of pounds of improvements could be carried out to council houses across the borough.
Swindon Council is consulting tenants and leaseholders about the transfer of housing stock to a not-for-profit organisation – which would be an entirely separate body from the council.
“This is a complex and serious process,” said David Renard, (Con, Haydon Wick), the cabinet member for health, housing and adult social care.
“It’s the tenants that will make the final decision they are happy with. The majority of tenants would have to be in favour in a secret ballot that could take place at the end of next year.”
Swindon Council has 10,500 properties. Earlier this year the council asked an independent expert to draw up plans for the future of its housing stock, and how to deliver millions of pounds worth of improvements.
The experts concluded that the only way repairs and improvements could be delivered was to transfer all 10,500 council homes to a not-for-profit body.
That organisation could keep all rent money paid by tenants and plough it back into improvements.
If the council kept ownership it would have to continue sending that money back to central Government.
The transfer could be to a body like a housing association or a trust.
Mum-of-five Sarah Lavagna, 44, of Latton Close, Penhill, said: “There would be advantages and some degree of disadvantages.
“The quality of the housing could be improved, but I hope the rent doesn’t go up as a result.
“I know my kitchen has been falling to bits in the 16 years I’ve lived here, so it would be interesting to see if it would make a difference. I think this transfer has been in the pipeline for a long time and isn’t unexpected.”
Under the proposals rent payment would not be affected by the transfer – rent would only rise in line with Government formulas, says the council. The council has stressed the move is not linked to the credit crunch.
Keith Badenski, the chairman of Swindon Tenants Voice (STV), said: “I would urge all tenants and leaseholders to become involved in the Housing Options Appraisal process and give their opinions and thoughts on it.”
Nat Lannin, chairman of Tenants Association for Sheltered Housing (TASH), said: “I have have two important messages for our tenants and leaseholders.
“Firstly, your homes and tenancies are safe. Secondly, no decisions have been made. So please take the opportunities to get involved.”
A public open day will be held on Saturday, January 17, from 11am to 3pm, at the Steam Museum in Kemble Drive.
For more information ring the council helpline between 8.30am and 5.30pm on weekdays, on 01793 445503.
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Your Say YourSwindon
TheBluesBrother, Swindon says...
9:35am Wed 17 Dec 08
Cost of flat in old town is £600 per month?
Mighty Reds, swindon says...
9:40am Wed 17 Dec 08
TheBluesBrother wrote:Read again. the housing stock would be transfered to a not-for-profit body..
Up go the rents, as the housing association is not a charity organisation.
Cost of flat in old town is £600 per month?
mothership, marlborough says...
10:05am Wed 17 Dec 08
Ho hum!, Swindon says...
10:23am Wed 17 Dec 08
Mighty Reds wrote:Just because it's a not-for-profit body doesn't mean that the rents won't go up.
TheBluesBrother wrote: Up go the rents, as the housing association is not a charity organisation. Cost of flat in old town is £600 per month?Read again. the housing stock would be transfered to a not-for-profit body..
Casual Observer, Swindon says...
10:46am Wed 17 Dec 08
mothership wrote:
The rents will rise and council tenants will have to pay or move out.
Just like the rest of us
Justin Tomlinson, Swindon says...
10:56am Wed 17 Dec 08
Geoff Reid, West Swindon says...
11:21am Wed 17 Dec 08
Justin Tomlinson wrote:Yep. Labour Government does indeed want 'parity' of rents between council-owned and association owned housing.
Am I not right in thinking that the Government is making Council converge (over a number of years, with the process already begun) Council House rents with the levels set by housing associations? So ultimately there would be no difference in potential rent rates?
That said, just because SBC owned housing might be initially transferred to a 'not-for-profit' association does not mean that a further transfer or sale to a 'for profit' outfit won't occur.
Newbury District Council initially transferred its housing stock to the 'West Berks Housing Association' but it wasn't long before every house was again transferred, this time to the 'Sovereign Housing Association'.
Strangely, and you'll draw your own conclusions from this, several senior 'staff' members did quite well out of the second transfer.
Offloading the SBC housing stock will be presented as 'a good thing' for the majority of Swindons council tax payers.
It probably won't result in a tax reduction, but might make a neccessary increase less harsh than would otherwise be the case.
If I were an SBC tenant, and I was given a vote on this, I'd think very carefully before voting to change landlords.
You'll pay more rent eventually, no matter who your landord is, and although SBC might not be the best or most responsive landlord in the world but sometimes, (especially where your home is concerned), it's better the devil you know....
Ho hum!, Swindon says...
11:23am Wed 17 Dec 08
FlowerPower, Swindon says...
11:41am Wed 17 Dec 08
The letter from the council explaining the proposals have been very much written to encourage tenants to vote in favour of the transfer. the tone of it was ' If you stay with SBC as landlords we cannot afford to do all the necessary repairs and you will have to lump it, but if you transfer then the housing assoc.will be able to afford all the repirs and improvments'. That said, despite being a council tenant, I do think it is unfair that every council tax payer in the borough has to subsidise my housing. Would council tax fall after the transfer as SBC no longer need to pay out for housing/repairs etc? Cynicval it may be, but I doubt it.
SBC have told tenants that currently they have to pay a proportion of the rents to central gov't. The HA do not have to do this, thus freeing up more money for repairs etc. In theory anyway!! I have no doubt at all that rents will rise, they will have to in order to bring the housing up to the gov'ts decent home standards.
I don't know which way I will vote yet. It is a subject which will need many more questions being answered by SBC first. For example, what will happen to the homelss lists? If an individual or family become homeless , and in the current climate that is going to be happening to ever increasing numbers, who will take responsibility for housing them? Who will be responsible for the sheltered housing? Will a HA be able to provide Homeline to vunerable tenants?
I for one will be taking a very in depth look before casting my vote.
Not that I expect them to listen, I believe this transfer will happen whether we like it or not
MikeyH, Stratton St Margaret says...
12:30pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Big Mac, Old Town says...
12:46pm Wed 17 Dec 08
I'm sure we all would.
Thing is, it ain't gonna happen.
Seems to me that these tenants have precisely the same choice that private home owners/renters have:
Either go without repairs and improvements or pay slightly more for it.
Ask the 300,000 people who've lost their jobs over the last 6 months whether they're happy to hand over some of their money to help pay for other people's kitchens being done up. I wouldn't want to be around when they give you the answer.
writer, swindon says...
1:13pm Wed 17 Dec 08
firkhamhall, Out Of Swindon says...
1:23pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Get hold of other groups of tenants who's landlords have gone over through the stock transfer. Ask them how much their rent has gone up and, if all the promised repairs have been carried out.
Ask how much the transfer costs the council and then ask why can't they spend that money on the stock to repair it.
Check on the right to repair scheme if your house is not up to code and standard.
Check if you are still going to be a secure tenant or assured like most housing associations.
Don't sit back and let others change this, you must check it out and get involved and have your say.
If the majority of those who bother to reply to the question choose one or the other, it's too late to argue after.......
David Renard, says...
1:57pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Rent levels are set by a Government formula. Justin is correct. The original intention was that they should converge by 2012 but this was put back to 2017 last year.
Rents of current secure tenants cannot be increased except annually using the formula.
Council Housing income and expenditure has nothing to do with Council Tax levels. The Hosuing Revenue Account is a 'ring fenced' account which means money can't be transferred in or out of it from the 'General Fund'.
The consultation is NOT a ballot. The Council will have to decide later in 2009 whether it wishes to offer tenants a formal ballot or not. This consultation will inform that decision.
Tenants decide if the stock should be transferred NOT the Council.
FlowerPower, Swindon says...
2:18pm Wed 17 Dec 08
BigMac I agree, I do not think its fair that every person who pays council tax should subsidise my housing. In that way I think it would be best for the HA to take over, but yes there are still doubts in my mind. I am intending to look very closely at the proposals and all the facts before I can make a decision.
The bottom line though is I am just one tenant, if the majority vote to stay with SBC in the hope that their rents will not rise, then you could well be stuck with it. Regardless of if it is fair or not. Are non tenant council tax payers going to be allowed to put their views across in any way? Surely they should be, after all it is THEIR money that subsidises the councils housing.
Whether we like it or not, social housing is needed, and sadly that need is only going to increase in the coming months as more and more fall victim to the financial crisis we are in. Someone has to accept responsibility for that. be it council or HA.
I guess that if the rents do rise though, that more and more people will also become eligible for Housing benefit, which again has to come from somewhere. So either way the tax payer is going to be caught. Not fair? Nope, but thats life in the UK
firkhamhall, Out Of Swindon says...
2:46pm Wed 17 Dec 08
David Renard, exactly how much is this consultation costing the HRA? This is before you take it to the tenants.
The law states that, as long as you asks tenants within a prescribed time limit, then you are covering your backs as far as the law is concerned. You DO NOT have to take it through the whole process every time.
firkhamhall, Out Of Swindon says...
2:57pm Wed 17 Dec 08
It's going to take years to get the stock sorted, even after a transfer. Perhaps in a few years, the Government will do what they should and allow councils to use the money they have, to do what they should with the stock. Then, all the housing associations will moan like hell as they go to the wall.
FlowerPower, Swindon says...
3:44pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Firkamhall, where does the housing benefit come from then, if and when there are insufficent rents being paid from tenants in work? In the current climate there are going to be more and more claims coming in. What about those claiming housing benefit that live in private rented properties? They are not paying rent into the council coffers yet are taking out? Sorry but that doesn't add up to me! I might of course have simply misunderstood you?
Spurs Fan, Swindon says...
4:02pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Secondly if you are a council tenant and you are worried about a possible transfer get involved and find out the answers for yourselves. Any ballot should SBC decide to further consult tenants will not happen for a year or so. So if you have genuine concerns there is plenty of time to find out answers.
Last but not least Swindon Council Homes already meet The Decent Homes Standard. Swindon is one of the first councils nationally to achieve this! But the Decent Homes Standard is not that good a standard. For instance if your kitchen is say 30 years old, but is not broken it meets decency!
Tenants Get Involved and make up your own minds!
firkhamhall, Out Of Swindon says...
4:02pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Not all 10,500 homes are on housing benefit in fact, contrary to popular belief, more rents are being paid than not.
The money to cover all repairs, rent rebates, repairs to play parks on council estates and renovation, comes from this account. Now some, in fact most, councils are forced to hand this money to Government who then deal it out across the country.
If you google housing revenue account, there are plenty of sites with information about this although, you may fall asleep while reading it. :-)
firkhamhall, Out Of Swindon says...
4:09pm Wed 17 Dec 08
They are the councils preferred consultation group and, the council will have asked them first as was the case 10 years ago when the council were told in no uncertain terms, that there was going to be no money wasted on this ploy to dump the houses.
If they re-vamped the way in which repairs are carried out, along with making tenants responsible for more of the day-to-day minor repairs and, did proper checks on the state of the houses and stopped some tenants before they destroyed them, they would have enough money.
Spurs Fan, Swindon says...
4:17pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Can you supply any data to back up these claims?
I think, I would argue, that more checks would cost more money. How many tenants actually destroy houses?
Private rented tenants do not do their own maintenance! Why should council tenants?
Taffynut, Old Town says...
4:20pm Wed 17 Dec 08
"Council cannot afford the cost of repairs" well, Housing Associations will be burdened with the cost in the end and the answer will be revealed.
Casual Observer, Swindon says...
4:23pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Moth, Swindon says...
4:29pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Why are the Council yet again wasting £thousands on another consultation, the money wasted would be far better spent improving the housing stock they've already got.
Anyone who thinks that rents won't rise needs their heads examined.
Seems to me that the Council don't like taking "No" for an answer!
vernonjya, Essex says...
5:07pm Wed 17 Dec 08
martinwicks, Swindon says...
6:21pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Housing Associations might be called 'non profit' but in fact they are businesses run on a commercial basis. Moreover, the reason why HA rents have been around 20% higher than Council rents is because they have to borrow money at commercial rates, rather than cheaper money from the government.
You can read a press release from Swindon TUC at: http://swindontuc.wo
rdpress.com
As well as being secretary of Swindon TUC, by the way, I am also a tenant.
eileengeorge, Swindon says...
7:10pm Wed 17 Dec 08
It is a fact that it is easier for a Housing Association to evict their "assured" tenants than it is for the Council to evict us from our "secure" tenancies.
Examination of previous transfers will show that rents have always risen more sharply under Housing Associations.
Promises about repairs given to secure a yes vote are not legally binding on a Housing Association, and, in fact several groups of tenants are still waiting for the promised new kitchens and bathrooms years after transfer.
Tenants should attend all meetings in their area and ask LOTS of questions.
A good site to start looking at is the Defend Council Housing campaign website which has lots of information on what has happened to tenants who transferred.
http://www.defendcou
ncilhousing.org.uk
The Realist, Central Swindon says...
9:03pm Wed 17 Dec 08
As many here have said, get invloved but get the facts first, dont listen to those with a political bias or with their own agendas and also look at the bigger picture, not just what it means to the individual as so many are doing now like the union and TASH and STV who take thew very narrow view and mostly dont understand anyway.
Get the facts and then make a decision as this is very important to all tenants not just the ones who shout the loudest.
firkhamhall, Out Of Swindon says...
10:01pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Read about it on the internet. I am not saying stock transfer is, or is not the answer for Swindon, what I am saying is, once it goes through, there is NO going back.
The 'new' 'non profit' organisation, will be your own **** housing department you have now! Their jobs are safe and, their wages double because they now work for a company and not the council!
More company cars, more expenses, less accounting to the tenants, it all makes sense to them. You have to ask yourself, will you get the deal you deserve with the security you have now?
firkhamhall, Out Of Swindon says...
10:03pm Wed 17 Dec 08
martinwicks, Swindon says...
4:56pm Thu 18 Dec 08
No 'firkhamall' that's only the senior managers whose wages go up. The staff who do the work can look forward to declining wages. You know how it goes. Staff go over on same wages and conditions owing to the TUPE regulations, and they put new staff on lower wages etc.
By the way 'Realist', how does the Council go broke if "everything stays the same?"
Your sayYour Swindon
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Donkey, Swindon says...
9:18am Wed 17 Dec 08
These properties, part of the Swindon resident's heritage to a point, could end up being 'lost' to the system which has run successfully for decades?
What, exactly, is there in it for this Tory Council, Spring Sale on the horizon?