Commuters' call to save park and ride (From Swindon Advertiser)

"MOVES to close the Groundwell park and ride site have sparked the ire of commuters."

What... BOTH OF THEM?????

Here’s a lovely example of joined up thinking.

For Whichelstow, in the South West of town, the council have made the roads narrower and allocated fewer parking spaces.
The reason is to force people out of their cars and onto public transport, possibly via the Park & Ride.

For Groundwell, in the North of the town, the council have now got plans to mothball the site.
The reason seems to be to force people back into their cars, and off public transport.

Oy! SBC – Sort it out. You give the impression that you don’t have a clue what you are doing.

Groundwell Park & Ride was just another waste of time and money from the previous incompetent Labour run council.

Now that's going, can the Council please get rid of the bus lanes as well!

Eh? Well the car park always seems pretty full when I go past it every week day! It' also nearly empty all weekend - so perhaps just reduce the operating hours to when people actually use it?!

Oh, and while we're at it, it might be worth reminding the bus drivers that the speed limit on cricklade road is 30 mph!

Park at Asda for free and catch one of about 5 different busses to any part of the town.

Isn't it easy to do these crass, stupid cutbacks at a time when the electorate are not required this coming May?

Would the Tories dare to greatly up their allowances, shut the P & R, put people's lives at risk by dumping the speeding cameras and raise the Council Tax to around %8 - 10, if their were elections ... no!

They can do what they wish as those who are under the illusion this Council gives good service, will probably still vote for them given the chance next time as well I expect?.

One despairs ... they are despots!

So the council are going to support the town centres retail businesses by filling the town carparks with workers cars once groundwell closes, driving shoppers out of town to the shopping centres on the outter rim of Swindon?

And what does it plan to do with the Groundwell site once the P&R is closed? Its not going to be snapped up for redevelopment in the current financial climate. And road safety issues would restrict access to the site making planning permissions a nightmare!

With public transport routes being cut back buses will not be able to carry those who will park in out lying residential areas and bus in and those who live in the residential areas will suddenly find their street has become a commuters car park!

Has anyone really thought the consequences of this out seriously?

I'm afraid it's the total destruction of anything promoted by the Labour Government and the previous administration which this, stop at nothing Conservative lot are out to achieve. Examples of this behaviour are throughout the borough.

Political hatred of anyone who does not pray to their God is far worse than anything I've ever experienced in many decades in what used to be a decent town!

They will not accept that certain schemes benefit the people they are supposed to represent.

The copse park and ride is mainly used by people who work in Swindon town centre as it is much cheaper than parking in the town centre car parks for the whole day. This means that the busses in peak period are well used but those during the day less so as people going into town for large amounts of shopping do not what to have to hump it on and of busses.
If the council needs to save money on this service then with this in mind it would seem to make more sense to put up the price of a weekly ticket to say £20 (still a lot less than town centre parking) and reduce the number of busses in the off peak periods.
I know that common sense ideas do not score party political points but they should still be considered.

Donkey wrote:
I'm afraid it's the total destruction of anything promoted by the Labour Government and the previous administration which this, stop at nothing Conservative lot are out to achieve. Examples of this behaviour are throughout the borough.

Political hatred of anyone who does not pray to their God is far worse than anything I've ever experienced in many decades in what used to be a decent town!

They will not accept that certain schemes benefit the people they are supposed to represent.

Blah, blah, blah.

Still the same old worn out record eh Donkey?

You really have lost the plot.

Why have a park and ride, who the hell would want to come into Swindons pathetic town centre unless they are a fan of closed, charity, mobile phone and pound shops?

Peter Greenhalgh said "The number using the service is not that great so I don’t think the effect on traffic will be huge". My opinion, as a degree qualified transport professional with over a decade of experience, is that this a hugely naive statement from a man who is the elected representative with responsibility for transport within the borough. I don't want to know what Mr Greenhalgh 'thinks', I want to know what the professional technical analysis of his officers tells him (assuming any has been done, to me his words suggest otherwise).

As a regular user of this service my observations are that at least six morning peak time journeys are well filled with 30-50 passengers, most arriving in cars on their own. A conservative (if you'll excuse the unintended pun) estimate of only 25 additional private cars using the stretch of Cricklade Road from Thamesdown Drive to the Moonrakers Roundabout every 15 minutes (the current bus frequency) will add considerably to peak time traffic congestion on this corridor. If you currently drive along this stretch of road in the AM peak, consider how much further you will be back in the traffic queue if another 25 cars are ahead of you, how much longer it will take you to get to the Moonrakers Roundabout and then across it.

The is bad news for all users of this stretch of the Cricklade Road in the morning peak. Users of the Park & Ride will have to find a possibly more expensive alternative, motorists will be delayed by additional congestion and local residents will suffer from additional noise and pollution from more private cars slowly passing their homes.

Where the service 'loses' money for the council is in the off-peak periods when many fewer customers appear to use it (it is also run on a commercial basis by Thamesdown in the peak, so the peak bus operation element of the service is no concern for Swindon BC). Savings could be made by reducing the frequency, or combining the route with another.

Some new market opportunities would appear to be:

Operate the PM peak service later to allow rail commuters to benefit from it. The current last departure from the town centre at 18:45 means very tight connections off last trains from Bristol TM at 18:00, Paddington at 17:45 and Reading at 18:11. Any disruption to rail services could result in a Park & Ride customer stranded 2 1/2 miles from their car. The PM peak Park & Ride service could be diverted via the station forecourt for ease of connection. And there is a big market to go for, Swindon station car park has, according to First GW's website, 607 spaces and if I drive to it I am often struggling to get a space by 08:30.

Combine the Park and Ride (901) service and the Hospital Express (16) to form one through route every 15 minutes, providing a more convenient alternative to Hospital parking for motorists and bus users from Northern and North of Swindon.

Introduce stops on Park & Ride services at all intermediate Cricklade Road bus stops from the Park & Ride site to the Moonrakers Roundabout. These are currently only served hourly by the Stagecoach 51 to/from Cirencester. This may only be achievable in the off-peak, due to longer running times and heavy existing loadings in the peak, however has the potential to generate new custom. However if Park & Ride tickets were available from the waiting building (either from the member of staff or a machine) then loading of peak services at Groundwell would be faster (as many customers would not be paying the driver) and these stops might be achievable.

Reduce the service frequency off-peak and extend the route to Haydon Wick (ASDA) giving residents of Pinehurst, Penhill and Queensfield a direct regular route to the Orbital Centre and those from Ash Brake, St Andrew's Ridge and Groundwell West a faster alternative to the town centre.

Reduce the service frequency off-peak and use the existing two vehicles to extend the route to Blunsdon village, which lost direct services to/from Swindon town centre when the bypass opened and Service 51 was diverted away from the old A419. The alternative route from Blunsdon to Swindon town centre takes a tedious 33 minutes via St Andrews Ridge, ASDA Walmart and Pinehurst.

As a cost saving alternative the off-peak service could be withdrawn entirely and the potential users directed to the hourly Stagecoach service 51 from outside the Park & Ride or the 10-minute frequency Thamesdown service 17 around the corner on Penhill Drive. This would be a negative approach however and when viewed as part of a bigger picture could see assets (the buses) parked up for longer periods of the day earning nothing and redundant bus drivers adding to the country's social security bill.

Perhaps Coun Greenhalgh and his fellow members are not interested in trying to develop Swindon's public transport services to attract more custom, but would rather just hack out the costs? Successful businesses thrive when they provide a quality product that consumers want, not when they cut out cost and degrade their products (e.g Rover Group) - I suggest that our councillors seek savings elsewhere.

John Smith II wrote:
Peter Greenhalgh said "The number using the service is not that great so I don’t think the effect on traffic will be huge". My opinion, as a degree qualified transport professional with over a decade of experience, is that this a hugely naive statement from a man who is the elected representative with responsibility for transport within the borough. I don't want to know what Mr Greenhalgh 'thinks', I want to know what the professional technical analysis of his officers tells him (assuming any has been done, to me his words suggest otherwise). As a regular user of this service my observations are that at least six morning peak time journeys are well filled with 30-50 passengers, most arriving in cars on their own. A conservative (if you'll excuse the unintended pun) estimate of only 25 additional private cars using the stretch of Cricklade Road from Thamesdown Drive to the Moonrakers Roundabout every 15 minutes (the current bus frequency) will add considerably to peak time traffic congestion on this corridor. If you currently drive along this stretch of road in the AM peak, consider how much further you will be back in the traffic queue if another 25 cars are ahead of you, how much longer it will take you to get to the Moonrakers Roundabout and then across it. The is bad news for all users of this stretch of the Cricklade Road in the morning peak. Users of the Park & Ride will have to find a possibly more expensive alternative, motorists will be delayed by additional congestion and local residents will suffer from additional noise and pollution from more private cars slowly passing their homes. Where the service 'loses' money for the council is in the off-peak periods when many fewer customers appear to use it (it is also run on a commercial basis by Thamesdown in the peak, so the peak bus operation element of the service is no concern for Swindon BC). Savings could be made by reducing the frequency, or combining the route with another. Some new market opportunities would appear to be: Operate the PM peak service later to allow rail commuters to benefit from it. The current last departure from the town centre at 18:45 means very tight connections off last trains from Bristol TM at 18:00, Paddington at 17:45 and Reading at 18:11. Any disruption to rail services could result in a Park & Ride customer stranded 2 1/2 miles from their car. The PM peak Park & Ride service could be diverted via the station forecourt for ease of connection. And there is a big market to go for, Swindon station car park has, according to First GW's website, 607 spaces and if I drive to it I am often struggling to get a space by 08:30. Combine the Park and Ride (901) service and the Hospital Express (16) to form one through route every 15 minutes, providing a more convenient alternative to Hospital parking for motorists and bus users from Northern and North of Swindon. Introduce stops on Park & Ride services at all intermediate Cricklade Road bus stops from the Park & Ride site to the Moonrakers Roundabout. These are currently only served hourly by the Stagecoach 51 to/from Cirencester. This may only be achievable in the off-peak, due to longer running times and heavy existing loadings in the peak, however has the potential to generate new custom. However if Park & Ride tickets were available from the waiting building (either from the member of staff or a machine) then loading of peak services at Groundwell would be faster (as many customers would not be paying the driver) and these stops might be achievable. Reduce the service frequency off-peak and extend the route to Haydon Wick (ASDA) giving residents of Pinehurst, Penhill and Queensfield a direct regular route to the Orbital Centre and those from Ash Brake, St Andrew's Ridge and Groundwell West a faster alternative to the town centre. Reduce the service frequency off-peak and use the existing two vehicles to extend the route to Blunsdon village, which lost direct services to/from Swindon town centre when the bypass opened and Service 51 was diverted away from the old A419. The alternative route from Blunsdon to Swindon town centre takes a tedious 33 minutes via St Andrews Ridge, ASDA Walmart and Pinehurst. As a cost saving alternative the off-peak service could be withdrawn entirely and the potential users directed to the hourly Stagecoach service 51 from outside the Park & Ride or the 10-minute frequency Thamesdown service 17 around the corner on Penhill Drive. This would be a negative approach however and when viewed as part of a bigger picture could see assets (the buses) parked up for longer periods of the day earning nothing and redundant bus drivers adding to the country's social security bill. Perhaps Coun Greenhalgh and his fellow members are not interested in trying to develop Swindon's public transport services to attract more custom, but would rather just hack out the costs? Successful businesses thrive when they provide a quality product that consumers want, not when they cut out cost and degrade their products (e.g Rover Group) - I suggest that our councillors seek savings elsewhere.

Yawn

John Smith II.

This has to be one of the best thought out argumenst on the comenst pages. I hope the adver qoute you in full in the 'have your say' page!

forget about buses and cars...get yourself a motorbike or scooter. much quicker,cheaper and free parking.

I congratulate you John Smith II for a very well constructed and 'professional' summary of the problems.

Ignore the usual childish comment from one of the staunch Tory contributors, who actually contributes nothing on here!

This decision is absolutely staggering and it comes down to 1 simple fact.

The council have hiked car park prices to such an extent people decide to use te P&R. The council, then facing a budget shortfall, get p***** because the car parks aren't filling up and decide the solution is to shut the P&R

Absolute c***

For the lady who lives in Redhouse and works in a town centre office there is a simple solution. The number 18 bus travels through Redhouse to the town cwntre. Buy a weekly ticket and use the bus. No Parking fees and a one-bus journey.

madred, says...
forget about buses and cars...get yourself a motorbike

I have. Where are all the bike parking spaces in Swindon? Are they advertised on the Council website?

John Smith II,

In the unlikely event you read this, SCAN would love to hear from you - please contact us via www.swindonclimate.o
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