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Council must pay, claims parking expert


SWINDON Council could have to pay back thousands of pounds to motorists after one of its traffic codes was deemed unenforceable by an adjudicator.

Barrie Segal – Britain’s foremost expert on parking law – said Swindon Council “will soon be tied up in knots” if motorists begin asking for their money back.

He said the council was left badly exposed after an adjudicator ruled in September that it had failed to properly create an article restricting motorists, under contravention 82, from overstaying paid for visits.

On the back of this case he believes anyone fined for the “offence” since parking was decriminalised in 2003 can claim their money back.

“I think the council should be very worried,” said Mr Segal, who set up AppealNow.com.

“In law this is referred to as undue enrichment.

“I would suggest if motorists are within the 28-day appeal period they should appeal, otherwise people must write to the council and ask for their money back.

“In legal terms if one party is unjustly enriched by another they should refund the cash.

“From the looks of this appeal the council has never been entitled to the proceeds of contravention 82.

“Therefore, if they hadn’t misled the motorist by issuing the ticket they would have never been paid.

Mr Segal said in law the burden of proof always rested with the council.

“In any appeal it is the authority that must show that a contravention took place and that it had the power to issue the ticket,” he said. “But the council has never had that power.

”I must warn anyone attempting to do this that you have to be steadfast – it could result in a trip to the small claims court.

“The good news is that I fought a similar ticket in the county court years ago and won.”

The story was brought to the Adver’s attention after a former parking warden who had been made redundant said the council was no longer fining people for contravention 82.

A council spokesman denied this, adding: “Adjudicators from the Traffic Penalty Tribunal have been satisfied with the wording of contravention 82 of the council’s Traffic Regulation Order of 2003.

“An adjudicator recently upheld an appeal against a penalty charge notice issued in respect of contravention 82.

“The council’s legal department is considering the decision.

“In the meantime, the council will be issuing penalty charge notices under contravention 83 of the order.

“Contravention 83 relates to drivers who do not display a valid ticket. If a ticket has expired it is no longer valid.”

However, Mr Segal does not believe using one code to supplement the other is legal.

He said: “I would strongly suggest people fined for this infraction appeal – section 83 refers to penalties due to ‘invalid tickets’.

“However, overstaying a paid-for ticket doesn’t make it invalid.

“Article 18, which outlines the validity of tickets, clearly states that tickets are valid if purchased from a machine, placed in an appropriate place and if all details are clearly visible.”

Comments(14)

Home Boy says...
9:23pm Mon 8 Feb 10

hmmm, how about accidently parking in one of the only "service vehicles only" bays in an otherwise empty muti-story having paid for a valid ticket? Not as stupid as it sounds (although fairly embarrassing), the sign was about 8 feet high on the fence at the back of the bay making it impossible to see through my rear windscreen as I reversed into the parking bay.

itsamess says...
9:40pm Mon 8 Feb 10

This Council has abused the enforcement procedure since they were given the power to enforce parking by using it as revenue collection excercise which is against the whole principle of the law with flawed TROs placing residential areas with serious problems. Despite clear representations to the council the group mounting a challenge have been ignored and are in contact with sources to have these issues placed before the correct body to deal with the issue and no doubt will go public when a decision is reached on which route to take due to the complexity of the issue.

eh says...
10:25pm Mon 8 Feb 10

I and about 7 other parents were fined 30 quid for helping the school on a swimming trip at the oasis. we never knew about the changes to parking there - school nor oasis staff informed us and we were ushured past the payment desk. the council are complete money pinching gits in my opion - and now I intend to expoit all I'm entitled too for free due to a handicaped child (which is quite a lot - I pay in excess of a grand in tax every month so object to being fined 30 quid when helping out at school and having no response from the parking appeal dept appeal even after my local councillor asked!!!!)

Janais is back says...
8:49am Tue 9 Feb 10

I LIKE THIS STORY - I HOPE THE PAPER KEEPS THIS GOING BECAUSE I, AMONGST A LOT MORE, HAVE BEEN FINED FOR OVERSTAYING IN A CAR PARK BY 6 MINUTES ON A BANK HOLIDAY - THE TICKET WARDEN RAN OFF WHEN I WAS RETURNING.

IF SOMEONE CAN GIVE MORE CLARITY I WILL BE APPEALING MY TICKET.

umpcah says...
9:19am Tue 9 Feb 10

I have been in a similar position and think it was your responsibility to return to your car within the period you paid for - and then renew the ticket or drive off. However there seems to be a loophole and I wish you the very best of luck in your appeal. If rejected have another go !

Home Boy says...
9:26am Tue 9 Feb 10

To be fair there are a lot of signposts in the car park at the Oasis, boards on the walkway up to the entrance, and signs in the windows as you walk in. Still, you'd expect them to have a grace period when changing parking regulations.

trustnopolitician says...
9:38am Tue 9 Feb 10

The twerps in the council who got this wrong out to pay it back out of their own pocket - after all the councillors get £150 per week for generally making crass decisions.

The ModFather says...
9:41am Tue 9 Feb 10

I have been driving for 14 years and use a council car park on average once or twice a week. I have never been issued a parking ticket as I obey the signs and pay for my stay. Why risk a £30 fine for the sake of not paying £1.20. People just don’t think, and then look for somebody else to blame when they get caught. Ps I was issued a ticket once in 1997, as I locked my keys in my 1982 metro and couldn’t put another ticket in the car until I caught the bus home to get my spare keys. But I bought additional tickets and presented them to the warden to let him know what had happened and they let me off.

Janais is back says...
10:11am Tue 9 Feb 10

It is so refreshing to know that truly law abiding citizens have subscribed to this thread - upcah what a stupid comment you made, try living in the real world!

kazikmolyn60 says...
11:45am Tue 9 Feb 10

The ModFather wrote:
I have been driving for 14 years and use a council car park on average once or twice a week. I have never been issued a parking ticket as I obey the signs and pay for my stay. Why risk a £30 fine for the sake of not paying £1.20. People just don’t think, and then look for somebody else to blame when they get caught. Ps I was issued a ticket once in 1997, as I locked my keys in my 1982 metro and couldn’t put another ticket in the car until I caught the bus home to get my spare keys. But I bought additional tickets and presented them to the warden to let him know what had happened and they let me off.
To Mod Father Isay that in 1997 people still used common sense and the councils were not educated yet how to use cash cows.What year did Noo Labor come to power???????????????
?????

politicrat says...
3:23pm Tue 9 Feb 10

eh wrote:
I and about 7 other parents were fined 30 quid for helping the school on a swimming trip at the oasis. we never knew about the changes to parking there - school nor oasis staff informed us and we were ushured past the payment desk. the council are complete money pinching gits in my opion - and now I intend to expoit all I'm entitled too for free due to a handicaped child (which is quite a lot - I pay in excess of a grand in tax every month so object to being fined 30 quid when helping out at school and having no response from the parking appeal dept appeal even after my local councillor asked!!!!)
2 years ago I had a parking fine because parking rules changed in Old town from a 1h free parking to 5mins in the residents parking area.
This fine was actual a wake up call, because for the last 2 years I have been shopping at the Orbital instead, getting my hair cut done at home.
So Old Town is just a distant bad dream :-)

Casual Observer says...
4:48pm Tue 9 Feb 10

Politicrat, I went to the Orbital centre just after Christmas and I can tell you it was one of the most unpleasant shopping experiences I've ever had.
 
Miserable, overweight adults dressed like children, miserable overweight children dressed like adults, all barging around looking for cheap rubbish in tacky clone stores.
 
Free parking? I'd want free shopping to get me back out there, you're welcome to it.
 
Anyway, I thought the council cut your hair.

itsamess says...
8:10pm Tue 9 Feb 10

eh,swindon

If you write to the Council to appeal a FPN they are legally obliged to reply with a reason to reject your appeal and the reason. They are also legally bound to advise you of your right to appeal that ticket to an independent adjudicator where you will be represented by a traffic law expert free of charge. The Council uses this tactic of not replying to prevent you appealing which is a completely free process that if you lose simply means you have to pay the fine.

nlb says...
3:45pm Thu 11 Feb 10

So we're happy that Mr Segal is going to make a fortune from our money, and that the cost of fighting his cases will just increase our Council Tax?


Swindon people who have received fines for overstaying their time in town car parks could be entitled to a refund, claims a parking law specialist Swindon people who have received fines for overstaying their time in town car parks could be entitled to a refund, claims a parking law specialist

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