Concern that council ignored police warnings over 20mph zone (From Swindon Advertiser)
Get involved! Send photos, video, news & views. Text SWINDON NEWS to 80360 or email us
Email us your story, call 01793 501806 or text 80360, starting your message with 'SWINDON
NEWS'
Concern that council ignored police warnings over 20mph zone
6:10am Wednesday 28th April 2010 in
SWINDON Council has been accused of ignoring pleas from Wiltshire Police not to install 20mph zones on certain roads in Old Town.
Families living in the area have also said the new experimental speed scheme has made it more dangerous than ever before and that children are at serious risk on their walk to school.
The revelation has come to light after a residents’ action group against the current traffic calming measures, submitted a Freedom Of Information request which confirmed Wiltshire Constabulary’s head of roads policing, Chief Inspector Ian Copus, took the drastic and unusual step of handing the council a formal police objection with several reservations about the scheme.
Last summer, the council put forward plans for a 20mph limit to be introduced on 15 roads in Old Town and Okus, but Wiltshire Police urged them to reconsider and warned them of problems that could arise on Goddard Avenue and Quarry Road.
At the beginning of this year the council started a short-term 18-month 20mph ‘experimental limit’ in the area that did leave out some of the roads the police objected too but kept in some Chief Inspector Copus had strong reservations about.
Residents have come out in force against the latest scheme saying that the council has not delivered what it originally promised local people.
Clare Marlow, mother of two children at Lethbridge Primary School in Lethbridge Road, said: “The Freedom of Information statement clearly reveals that Swindon Borough Council has designed and built a faulty scheme without due care and attention.
“As the police warned, key long streets such as Quarry Road and Goddard Avenue are now more dangerous than before.
“Through drivers are not really aware that the area is now a 20mph zone because of the ineffective design and signage and are driving as normal.
“And, residents are in danger – trying to cross the streets as if the traffic is calmed.
“The scheme is causing confusion and simply does not work.”
The plans for the 20mph zone were approved by Swindon Borough Council in 2007 following a massive response to the Okus and Old Town Traffic study consultations.
Josie Williams, community arts development officer at Commonweal School in The Mall, has said local people have been ignored, including children at her school who had their own designs for safer streets ignored by the council.
She said: “It has been disappointing. I actually attended a meeting last year arranged by residents between the manager of the national Links to School fund and Swindon Borough Council staff to discuss possible additional funding.
“Yet even now, nearly one year on, Swindon Borough Council has not made an application for the money.
“At various meetings poster designs by children were actively encouraged. I am keen to use art as a vehicle to further community cohesion within the scheme. “Ultimately it is the local community who have to live with speeding traffic and to implement visual calming methods both physical and psychological have been proven to reduce speed.”
In a letter addressed to the action group, Dave Potter, Swindon Council’s director of planning and transport, said that the council had listened to the police.
He said: “The scheme was not intended to be a 20mph zone because of the cost associated with introducing speed measures at the required regular intervals; and residents’ concerns at the impact such measures would have on the character of the area, particularly given its conservation status.
“Whilst I note your concerns over the safety of what has been implemented I can advise you that the 20mph limit has been implemented in line with the legislative requirements of a 20mph limit.
“I am sorry that you feel the current scheme does not meet the expectations of local residents, however the borough council have implemented a scheme that meets legislative requirements and current best practice guidance and has the support of local police.”
Comments(60)
politicrat
says...
9:02am Wed 28 Apr 10
no more traffic jams, no more noises and no more risks for pedestrians
I would support such an inititiave, who needs a car in Old town anyway with all the facilities there within walking distance
guiville
says...
9:11am Wed 28 Apr 10
umpcah
says...
9:13am Wed 28 Apr 10
politicrat wrote:Very good ! Haha.
I have a better idea, how about making these street pedestrians only? no more traffic jams, no more noises and no more risks for pedestrians I would support such an inititiave, who needs a car in Old town anyway with all the facilities there within walking distance
Bobfm
says...
9:23am Wed 28 Apr 10
politicrat
says...
9:26am Wed 28 Apr 10
umpcah wrote:I havent been in Old Town in 2 years+, I drove through recently and I really cant see the appeal of living there or shopping there as a matter of fact.
politicrat wrote: I have a better idea, how about making these street pedestrians only? no more traffic jams, no more noises and no more risks for pedestrians I would support such an inititiave, who needs a car in Old town anyway with all the facilities there within walking distanceVery good ! Haha.
It has become a dump and an expensive one.
If I shop, I take my car to Bristol/Oxford, living near the station I can grab a ride to Bath, Gloucester Reading for £7 return ie: 2 hours Swindon parking fee!
Swindon is managed by imbeciles
umpcah
says...
9:30am Wed 28 Apr 10
politicrat wrote:"Swindon is managed by imbeciles" Sh! That was supposed to be a secret !
umpcah wrote:I havent been in Old Town in 2 years+, I drove through recently and I really cant see the appeal of living there or shopping there as a matter of fact. It has become a dump and an expensive one. If I shop, I take my car to Bristol/Oxford, living near the station I can grab a ride to Bath, Gloucester Reading for £7 return ie: 2 hours Swindon parking fee! Swindon is managed by imbecilespoliticrat wrote: I have a better idea, how about making these street pedestrians only? no more traffic jams, no more noises and no more risks for pedestrians I would support such an inititiave, who needs a car in Old town anyway with all the facilities there within walking distanceVery good ! Haha.
guiville
says...
9:35am Wed 28 Apr 10
llage.co.uk/20zone.s
html
guiville
says...
9:44am Wed 28 Apr 10
Bobfm wrote:Where in the article does it mention that parents want their children to play in the street? I live in the street, and all I want is for drivers to respect the 20 mph limit.
I do find it rather odd that it seems parents want their children to play on a busy street, even at 20MPH children can get seriously hurt.
Robh
says...
9:50am Wed 28 Apr 10
Without enforcement these 20mph zones are pointless. Take a trip around Abbeymeads in the morning and evening. Very few keep to 20mph and these are residents not through traffic.
politicrat
says...
9:54am Wed 28 Apr 10
Robh wrote:how about making abbeymeads a pedestrian zone as well?
It's pathetic really. The residents complain because a lot of the traffic doesn't keep to 20mph and the police are almost saying they will not enforce it. Without enforcement these 20mph zones are pointless. Take a trip around Abbeymeads in the morning and evening. Very few keep to 20mph and these are residents not through traffic.
no more cars = no more traffic, no more noise, no more risks
ideal!
guiville
says...
10:14am Wed 28 Apr 10
Robh wrote:The new 20 mph zone is the outcome of traffic study done in 2006 by the SBC. The study concluded that residential roads in Old Town had issues with speeding 'non-resident' through traffic. The study cost £39K - It's pathetic, really?
It's pathetic really. The residents complain because a lot of the traffic doesn't keep to 20mph and the police are almost saying they will not enforce it.
Without enforcement these 20mph zones are pointless. Take a trip around Abbeymeads in the morning and evening. Very few keep to 20mph and these are residents not through traffic.
Bobfm
says...
10:25am Wed 28 Apr 10
Old Town
says...
10:55am Wed 28 Apr 10
.
Children playing in the street was NEVER put forward as a reason for the 20mph zone
.
It is an implementation that just makes sense - when done properly !
.
Goddard Avenue is the biggest problem in Old Town of a road that cars use as a rat run. However no 20mph zone has been put in the one area where it seems most important....
.
People don't want anything stupid here - just a safer environment for the pedestrians.....
.
It just makes sense that a car hitting someone at 20mph is going to cause less damage than a car hitting someone at 30mph...
.
It really is a "no brainer" !
guiville
says...
10:59am Wed 28 Apr 10
Bobfm wrote:Bobfm. Reason for new 20 mph zone: 2006 SBC traffic study concluded there was an issue with speeding traffic in Old Town; there are no other reasons. Reason for study: Front Garden development will in time increase traffic levels in old town, the new limits are a counter measure by the SBC.
guiville, whilst I accept that it doesn't say this in this article when this was brought up comments about children playing was made as a reason to have the limit.
Bobfm
says...
11:03am Wed 28 Apr 10
Old Town
says...
11:15am Wed 28 Apr 10
.
This is for ALL pedestrians - not just children.....
.
Surely even you can see this ?
.
Although you are also calling for capital punishment to be bought back in for kids so maybe you think a sharp shock of being run over will do them some good ?
politicrat
says...
11:35am Wed 28 Apr 10
Old Town wrote:why dont you just petition for a pedestrian zone instead?
What should we do Bob - lock the kids up and not let them out because they might just try and cross the road ? . This is for ALL pedestrians - not just children..... . Surely even you can see this ? . Although you are also calling for capital punishment to be bought back in for kids so maybe you think a sharp shock of being run over will do them some good ?
easier to implement and enforce.
well you would only bother the residents with that, instead of the hard working commuters, so I guess you will not be supporting the idea LOL
Like I have said many times, you old town residents want to appropriate Old town, well you are very close now but don't you start screaming that it is a dying area when we all avoid it like the plague!
Old Town
says...
11:41am Wed 28 Apr 10
.
Who is calling for a "no car" zone apart from you ? No-one that I have heard from !
.
It's so terrible that residents in Old Town want commuters from outside Old Town to slow down a bit on very busy roads to protect the pedestrians - I know we Old Town folk are asking for a lot here....
.
I'm not too sure what it is you have against Old Town, put you sound more than a little pathetic about it....
.
Residents in some of the less built up areas in Abbeymeads that are not used as a rat run can have 20mph schemes without any problems, and you do not object to that, but when we ask for something sensible you object ?
.
sometimes you really do not make much sense....
.
Oh - and as for your daft comment above.....It would be those commuters who ARE affected more than anyone else - they are the ones who come through Old Town in the morning trying to get to work. If you make the area a pedestrian only area, how would they get to work ?
guiville
says...
11:51am Wed 28 Apr 10
politicrat wrote:You really are making me 'lol', are you for real?
Old Town wrote:why dont you just petition for a pedestrian zone instead?
What should we do Bob - lock the kids up and not let them out because they might just try and cross the road ? . This is for ALL pedestrians - not just children..... . Surely even you can see this ? . Although you are also calling for capital punishment to be bought back in for kids so maybe you think a sharp shock of being run over will do them some good ?
easier to implement and enforce.
well you would only bother the residents with that, instead of the hard working commuters, so I guess you will not be supporting the idea LOL
Like I have said many times, you old town residents want to appropriate Old town, well you are very close now but don't you start screaming that it is a dying area when we all avoid it like the plague!
politicrat
says...
12:28pm Wed 28 Apr 10
Old Town wrote:driving at 20mph or not driving at all, I rather leave the car at home to be honest.
What are you rambling on about ? . Who is calling for a "no car" zone apart from you ? No-one that I have heard from ! . It's so terrible that residents in Old Town want commuters from outside Old Town to slow down a bit on very busy roads to protect the pedestrians - I know we Old Town folk are asking for a lot here.... . I'm not too sure what it is you have against Old Town, put you sound more than a little pathetic about it.... . Residents in some of the less built up areas in Abbeymeads that are not used as a rat run can have 20mph schemes without any problems, and you do not object to that, but when we ask for something sensible you object ? . sometimes you really do not make much sense.... . Oh - and as for your daft comment above.....It would be those commuters who ARE affected more than anyone else - they are the ones who come through Old Town in the morning trying to get to work. If you make the area a pedestrian only area, how would they get to work ?
These machines aren't designed to go snail pace.
Honestly looking at the poor state of Old town, it wouldnt hurt much to make it a pedestrian zone all together, shoppers have already deserted the place and many employers have been looking at moving their premises to the Industrial Parks with cheaper rents, easier access+masses of parking available for both their employees and customers.
How do I know? well I made the move LOL and I have never been happier, shorter commute, no stress, plenty of parking and lower fuel bills + my bosses and customers can find our office much much easier.
Nothing wrong with Old Town, it is just not made for the 21st century.
Bobfm
says...
12:31pm Wed 28 Apr 10
politicrat
says...
12:33pm Wed 28 Apr 10
guiville wrote:well apart from laughing, what else can you do?
politicrat wrote:You really are making me 'lol', are you for real?Old Town wrote: What should we do Bob - lock the kids up and not let them out because they might just try and cross the road ? . This is for ALL pedestrians - not just children..... . Surely even you can see this ? . Although you are also calling for capital punishment to be bought back in for kids so maybe you think a sharp shock of being run over will do them some good ?why dont you just petition for a pedestrian zone instead? easier to implement and enforce. well you would only bother the residents with that, instead of the hard working commuters, so I guess you will not be supporting the idea LOL Like I have said many times, you old town residents want to appropriate Old town, well you are very close now but don't you start screaming that it is a dying area when we all avoid it like the plague!
Old Town
says...
1:26pm Wed 28 Apr 10
.
However - as seems usual for you, you seem to swerve the question that was actually asked....
.
do YOU believe in corporal punishment in schools, smacking kids etc.... ?
.
Do you believe that common sense suggests that a car hitting a pedestrian at 30mph will do more damage than a car hitting a pedestrian at 20mph ?
.
Come on Bob - stop avoiding the questions and actually give a straight answer.....
guiville
says...
1:49pm Wed 28 Apr 10
politicrat wrote:You are right that Old Town has suffered in all areas from underdevelopment, we can blame the Old Town councilors for that.
Old Town wrote:driving at 20mph or not driving at all, I rather leave the car at home to be honest.
What are you rambling on about ? . Who is calling for a "no car" zone apart from you ? No-one that I have heard from ! . It's so terrible that residents in Old Town want commuters from outside Old Town to slow down a bit on very busy roads to protect the pedestrians - I know we Old Town folk are asking for a lot here.... . I'm not too sure what it is you have against Old Town, put you sound more than a little pathetic about it.... . Residents in some of the less built up areas in Abbeymeads that are not used as a rat run can have 20mph schemes without any problems, and you do not object to that, but when we ask for something sensible you object ? . sometimes you really do not make much sense.... . Oh - and as for your daft comment above.....It would be those commuters who ARE affected more than anyone else - they are the ones who come through Old Town in the morning trying to get to work. If you make the area a pedestrian only area, how would they get to work ?
These machines aren't designed to go snail pace.
Honestly looking at the poor state of Old town, it wouldnt hurt much to make it a pedestrian zone all together, shoppers have already deserted the place and many employers have been looking at moving their premises to the Industrial Parks with cheaper rents, easier access+masses of parking available for both their employees and customers.
How do I know? well I made the move LOL and I have never been happier, shorter commute, no stress, plenty of parking and lower fuel bills + my bosses and customers can find our office much much easier.
Nothing wrong with Old Town, it is just not made for the 21st century.
politicrat
says...
2:19pm Wed 28 Apr 10
Old Town wrote:would you like your child to be hit by a car at all? I hope not
I apologise Bob - I meant corporal punishment and I think you know that... . However - as seems usual for you, you seem to swerve the question that was actually asked.... . do YOU believe in corporal punishment in schools, smacking kids etc.... ? . Do you believe that common sense suggests that a car hitting a pedestrian at 30mph will do more damage than a car hitting a pedestrian at 20mph ? . Come on Bob - stop avoiding the questions and actually give a straight answer.....
the best way moving forward is to ban traffic around schools, colleges, Universities.
Since Old Town is not designed to accomodate cars (rare parking available and very poor roads surface and design), why not just ban cars in Old town making it a pedestrian zone and thus giving it back to its correct period ie the pre-Industrial age, solving many issues raised by residents.
politicrat
says...
2:22pm Wed 28 Apr 10
guiville wrote:Yes and No, councillors are responsible for the mess but "we" the voters are to blame for electing the same imbeciles.
politicrat wrote:You are right that Old Town has suffered in all areas from underdevelopment, we can blame the Old Town councilors for that.Old Town wrote: What are you rambling on about ? . Who is calling for a "no car" zone apart from you ? No-one that I have heard from ! . It's so terrible that residents in Old Town want commuters from outside Old Town to slow down a bit on very busy roads to protect the pedestrians - I know we Old Town folk are asking for a lot here.... . I'm not too sure what it is you have against Old Town, put you sound more than a little pathetic about it.... . Residents in some of the less built up areas in Abbeymeads that are not used as a rat run can have 20mph schemes without any problems, and you do not object to that, but when we ask for something sensible you object ? . sometimes you really do not make much sense.... . Oh - and as for your daft comment above.....It would be those commuters who ARE affected more than anyone else - they are the ones who come through Old Town in the morning trying to get to work. If you make the area a pedestrian only area, how would they get to work ?driving at 20mph or not driving at all, I rather leave the car at home to be honest. These machines aren't designed to go snail pace. Honestly looking at the poor state of Old town, it wouldnt hurt much to make it a pedestrian zone all together, shoppers have already deserted the place and many employers have been looking at moving their premises to the Industrial Parks with cheaper rents, easier access+masses of parking available for both their employees and customers. How do I know? well I made the move LOL and I have never been happier, shorter commute, no stress, plenty of parking and lower fuel bills + my bosses and customers can find our office much much easier. Nothing wrong with Old Town, it is just not made for the 21st century.
to quote an old saying: reap what sew.
NGG
says...
2:31pm Wed 28 Apr 10
What we want is the "20MPH zone" that we were originally promised, including Westlecot Rd and the other roads that were in the original proposal. We also want properly implemented traffic calming, not just a few poorly visible signs. If it's a properly implemented "20MPH Zone", I don't believe the Police would object. What they object to, is the poorly implemented compromise that we have now.
We're not after a Pedestrianised Zone, we're just after a properly implemented 20MPH Zone which is safer for our kids. We're not saying don't drive down the roads in Old Town, we're just saying PLEASE stick to the 20MPH limits.
politicrat
says...
2:51pm Wed 28 Apr 10
NGG wrote:Traffic calming measures?
The Halcrow study proposed a "20MPH zone" with traffic calming to enforce the 20MPH limit. This is what we were promised and this is what we thought we were getting. SBC then proposed a scheme that didn't include traffic calming and the Police objected, with the result that Westlecot & several other roads were dropped from the scheme. The Police weren't objecting to a 20MPH zone as originally proposed, they were objecting to the cut-down implementation proposed by SBC. If SBC had put in the traffic calming as originally proposed, the Police wouldn't have objected. There was even the offer of matched funding on the table, but for some reason SBC never applied. What we want is the "20MPH zone" that we were originally promised, including Westlecot Rd and the other roads that were in the original proposal. We also want properly implemented traffic calming, not just a few poorly visible signs. If it's a properly implemented "20MPH Zone", I don't believe the Police would object. What they object to, is the poorly implemented compromise that we have now. We're not after a Pedestrianised Zone, we're just after a properly implemented 20MPH Zone which is safer for our kids. We're not saying don't drive down the roads in Old Town, we're just saying PLEASE stick to the 20MPH limits.
ahahaha do you know it is illegal to obstruct traffic?
Now I hear you, you are probably lambasting the council about potholes and here you are screaming for "traffic claming measures"
Please do keep quiet!
20mph No! pedestrians only zone YES!
Old Town
says...
4:24pm Wed 28 Apr 10
.
As you well know a pedestrian Old Town would not work. There are a huge amount of residents, a lot of cars and a fairly large area.
.
Where would people put their cars ?
.
You are "worried" about the commuters - but people in Old Town also commute....
.
Traffic would not be able to get from one side of town to the other....
.
You are being deliberately obtusive - I wont bother worrying about replying any more....
politicrat
says...
4:56pm Wed 28 Apr 10
Old Town wrote:if you do not know the triple E rules, I would recommned you get familiar with it.
Dont be an fool Politicrat ! . As you well know a pedestrian Old Town would not work. There are a huge amount of residents, a lot of cars and a fairly large area. . Where would people put their cars ? . You are "worried" about the commuters - but people in Old Town also commute.... . Traffic would not be able to get from one side of town to the other.... . You are being deliberately obtusive - I wont bother worrying about replying any more....
when it comes to traffic calming mesaures etc... you will find it is residents that are the culprits not the stranger commuter!
Old Town is not designed to accomodate modern day transport, ie cars, buses so it would make sense to ban traffic there all together
just a sensible thought....
Bobfm
says...
8:09pm Wed 28 Apr 10
I and they do not negate their responsibility by trying to blame others, including perhaps speeding drivers. Young kids should not be out on their own.
Brizisnextpm
says...
10:51pm Wed 28 Apr 10
.
You do support your man with his ascertain that corporal punishment should be brought back - don't you?
Casual Observer
says...
10:57pm Wed 28 Apr 10
Bobfm wrote:Classic Bob - lives nowhere near the area but sees fit to offer his badly written, badly thought out advice to us mortals living in Old Town.
OT, I have never and did not subscribe to the premise of your comment. As for children, sorry as a parent or now a grandparent they are my responsibility or my son and his wifes.
I and they do not negate their responsibility by trying to blame others, including perhaps speeding drivers. Young kids should not be out on their own.
All this from the pro-smoking "Head Of Media" - brilliant, thanks for another reason not to vote for UKIP.
SwindonStGeorge
says...
7:43am Thu 29 Apr 10
politicrat
says...
8:31am Thu 29 Apr 10
SwindonStGeorge wrote:we should ban car traffic 1mile radius of any schools to protect children.
Ok, I'll keep to the speed limit. Now who's going to teach all the kids how to cross the road properly? Some just walk into the road expecting cars to stop.
Old Town
says...
8:55am Thu 29 Apr 10
Bobfm wrote:Again Bob - completely swerved the question - so I will ask it again in as simple terms as I can muster.....
OT, I have never and did not subscribe to the premise of your comment. As for children, sorry as a parent or now a grandparent they are my responsibility or my son and his wifes. I and they do not negate their responsibility by trying to blame others, including perhaps speeding drivers. Young kids should not be out on their own.
.
1. Do you agree that a car hitting a pedestrian at 30mph will do more damage than a car hitting a pedestrian at 20mph ?
.
2. Do you believe that corporal punishment should be bought back into schools ?
.
Hopefully I have asked in a clear way.....
Bobfm
says...
12:54pm Thu 29 Apr 10
Of course a car hitting a child at 30 MPH is likely to cause more harm, although the television adverts state a child hit at 30mph has a 95% survival rate.
As for corporal punishment I wasn't even thinking about that on this thread so no I didn't know what you were referring to. I have also answered the question as to UKIP's policy on the appropriate thread. My personal view is just that. I have learnt on these threads that whatever I say will be twisted to suit individuals agenda.
I believe that schools and governors should have an arsenal of measures available to them, and in the end it should be a matter for those who run the schools to decide, but they must accept the consequences of their actions or lack of if education is disrupted.
Old Town
says...
1:06pm Thu 29 Apr 10
.
So you concede that a 20mph zone (properly implemented) is better than a 30mph zone in a built up area.
.
You also confirmed you were (and your party) behind calls to re-introduce corporal punishment.
.
Thanks for answering the question
.
I apologise for not understanding your earlier response - I put it down to the fact that you didn't answer the questions, but I am sure you will have a different view.....
Brizisnextpm
says...
1:14pm Thu 29 Apr 10
.
Do you agree with corporal punishment yes or no. One word would suffice.
.
Your ego has dictated that you want the public attention so you have to be prepared to answer the questions posed by your public!
politicrat
says...
2:31pm Thu 29 Apr 10
Old Town wrote:very well to implement but how do you enforce?
Great - we get somewhere at last :-) . So you concede that a 20mph zone (properly implemented) is better than a 30mph zone in a built up area. . You also confirmed you were (and your party) behind calls to re-introduce corporal punishment. . Thanks for answering the question . I apologise for not understanding your earlier response - I put it down to the fact that you didn't answer the questions, but I am sure you will have a different view.....
install fixed speed cameras?
It would be so much easier and fairer to ban all traffic around schools.
Old Town
says...
4:32pm Thu 29 Apr 10
.
So we need to find real alternatives..
.
Traffic calming ? Camera's ? More Police out and about ?
.
I am not sure - but I do know that 20mph is better than 30mph when someone being hit is involved !
Grad
says...
5:57pm Thu 29 Apr 10
So, if I'm getting it, it's MORE dangerous because some cars don't know it is a 20mph zone and pedestrians are randomly walking out into the road without looking because at 20mph they are invincible?
It may be ineffective/pointles
s/annoying to pedestrians/annoying to drivers/too much expense for too little result and many many other things but can someone explain to me how it can POSSIBLY be more dangerous?
Very very confused.
Bobfm
says...
6:36pm Thu 29 Apr 10
Grad, you have made the point I made early, which is essentially the road is still the road, you are safe on the pavement and safe when crossing the road if no cars are coming.
Remember the Green Cross Code, Stop, Look, Listen, Think, or in later versions the Think becomes Live.
guiville
says...
7:48pm Thu 29 Apr 10
Grad wrote:It's easy to understand Grad. If you drive at 20mph and get overtaken by another car who thinks it 30mph it's a recipe for an accident in a narrow residential road.
I literally do not understand the logic of this argument. What a load of tosh!
So, if I'm getting it, it's MORE dangerous because some cars don't know it is a 20mph zone and pedestrians are randomly walking out into the road without looking because at 20mph they are invincible?
It may be ineffective/pointles
s/annoying to pedestrians/annoying to drivers/too much expense for too little result and many many other things but can someone explain to me how it can POSSIBLY be more dangerous?
Very very confused.
who dat?
says...
9:56pm Thu 29 Apr 10
It is typical local government job protection - take years to make a decision , once made then feck it up ,dig it up, take years to review , re-plan , re-build, etc all the while seeing one's salary increase by the bucket-ful then retire gracefully on fully protected, gold plated pension leaving someone else to start the cycle all over again!
Now showing at council offices all over the land!
guiville
says...
8:19am Fri 30 Apr 10
who dat? wrote:who dat? It has everything to do with road safety. A 39k study by the SBC said so. There are issues in Old Town of speeding traffic in residential streets. I agree with your views on years to make a decision though, the study was done back in 2007.
This issue has sweet FA to do with road safety!
It is typical local government job protection - take years to make a decision , once made then feck it up ,dig it up, take years to review , re-plan , re-build, etc all the while seeing one's salary increase by the bucket-ful then retire gracefully on fully protected, gold plated pension leaving someone else to start the cycle all over again!
Now showing at council offices all over the land!
Old Town
says...
8:19am Fri 30 Apr 10
Bobfm wrote:It's pretty simple Bob - I asked whether you believed corporal punishment should be bought back in schools ?
OT, I guess you didn't understand my answer, I understood your question.
Of course a car hitting a child at 30 MPH is likely to cause more harm, although the television adverts state a child hit at 30mph has a 95% survival rate.
As for corporal punishment I wasn't even thinking about that on this thread so no I didn't know what you were referring to. I have also answered the question as to UKIP's policy on the appropriate thread. My personal view is just that. I have learnt on these threads that whatever I say will be twisted to suit individuals agenda.
I believe that schools and governors should have an arsenal of measures available to them, and in the end it should be a matter for those who run the schools to decide, but they must accept the consequences of their actions or lack of if education is disrupted.
.
You replied.....
.
"I believe that schools and governors should have an arsenal of measures available to them, and in the end it should be a matter for those who run the schools to decide, but they must accept the consequences of their actions or lack of if education is disrupted."
.
I think most normal people would understand that this means you would support bringing it back, as I asked you the question in the most simple terms and at no stage did you say "No I would not support this"......
.
I guess if you meant something completely different it tells me that talking to a "politician" means you will never get a straight answer....
.
So for the last and final time (and I am looking for a 1 word answer) - would you support bringing back corporal punishment into schools Bob ?
.
And please don't answer while talking in riddles ?!?
politicrat
says...
8:32am Fri 30 Apr 10
Old Town wrote:a 20mph zone will just force other drivers to go around it and put extra pressure on the nearby streets/roads.
But not manageable, not practicle and not ever going to happen... . So we need to find real alternatives.. . Traffic calming ? Camera's ? More Police out and about ? . I am not sure - but I do know that 20mph is better than 30mph when someone being hit is involved !
It is so funny that you guys complain so much about Old Town and yet do not realise that it is people like you that make a trip to Old Town such a chore with all your moronic ideas like this one.
guiville
says...
9:26am Fri 30 Apr 10
politicrat wrote:The whole idea for the 20 mph zone was SBC's. The 42K study they did concluded there was an issue with speeding traffic in Old Town. They offered residents a series of solutions, one being a 20 mph zone.
Old Town wrote:a 20mph zone will just force other drivers to go around it and put extra pressure on the nearby streets/roads.
But not manageable, not practicle and not ever going to happen... . So we need to find real alternatives.. . Traffic calming ? Camera's ? More Police out and about ? . I am not sure - but I do know that 20mph is better than 30mph when someone being hit is involved !
It is so funny that you guys complain so much about Old Town and yet do not realise that it is people like you that make a trip to Old Town such a chore with all your moronic ideas like this one.
There will be more traffic in Old Town once the Front Garden development is finished = more speeding traffic = more possibility of accidents.
I live in Goddard Ave. I see speeding traffic everyday. That's why residents are fed up. The only thing we have left to do now is complain.
Old Town
says...
10:00am Fri 30 Apr 10
.
What is "moronic" about wanting our streets to be safer ?
.
So it might take someone from outside Old Town 2-3 more minutes to get through the residential streets - but it might also save a life ....
.
Bath Road will still be a 30mph zone - this is the main through road in Old Town so your precious commuters can just use this road instead of trying to "cut through" Goddard Avenue and Westlecott Road.
.
Alternatively they can still cut through, but at a reduced speed.
.
If the car drivers don't like it - tough !
.
I am happy to drive my car at a lower speed for the 500 or so yards we are talking about....
.
Anyone who sees that as a problem can just (as you say) use another route - all problems solved....
class
says...
12:37pm Fri 30 Apr 10
Bobfm
says...
1:33pm Fri 30 Apr 10
OT, if I said yes, you would then come back and say, 'well two UKIP people agree that corporal punishment should be re-introduced, so de facto it's UKIP policy.', if I say no then you will no doubt claim that by excluding it we are not enabling schools a full range of sanctions.
So I repeat UKIP would follow the recommendations of the Steed Report.
It is however interesting that a BBC survey suggests that half of parents would like to see the return of corporal punishment in schools in the UK -
Old Town
says...
6:21pm Fri 30 Apr 10
.
However when someone asks you a direct question you squirm around it - you are now trying to read my mind from afar by the look of your last answer !
.
As I say - I don't care whether you agree with it or not - but it would be great to get a straight answer from you !!
.
Oh by the way - I still don't actually have an answer as to whether YOU PERSONALLY would like to see corporal punishment bought back into our schools ?
.
Go on Bob I dare you - answer the question......withou
t hiding behind a "we would follow blah blah blah" answer......
Bobfm
says...
9:49am Sat 1 May 10
If we judge policy and effectiveness on the end result there would certainly be a correlation between Corporal Punishment and good discipline in schools, but as I say that is a matter of partnership between parents, teachers and governors, it is for 'stakeholders' to decide the range of measures they wish, if it included corporal punishment that would be up to them.
guiville
says...
11:47am Sat 1 May 10
Bobfm wrote:Parents and teachers who lower themselves to physical violence and aggression in an attempt to control children are setting an example the children may try to follow. This is the hypocrisy of "Do what I say, not what I do."
I went to school during an era when corporal was the 'norm'. Discipline in schools according to any measure has declined since then.
If we judge policy and effectiveness on the end result there would certainly be a correlation between Corporal Punishment and good discipline in schools, but as I say that is a matter of partnership between parents, teachers and governors, it is for 'stakeholders' to decide the range of measures they wish, if it included corporal punishment that would be up to them.
Bobfm
says...
6:17pm Sat 1 May 10
The reward the good and ignore the bad concept as led to the type of incident resulting in the teacher lashing out. According to the reports of the trial the class as a group set out to drive the teacher over the edge, as someone had installed a hidden video camera.
It was clear from the Judges comments and that of former pupils where they thought the blame lies.
Again all I can say is that when I was at school the only effect someone being can had on 400 other pupils was to make sure they didn't step out of line. Perhaps on the one pupil the effect may have been different who knows.
Brizisnextpm
says...
8:23pm Sun 2 May 10
Bobfm wrote:You went to school before there were cars on the road and it was common place to use a slate as well as beat children.
I went to school during an era when corporal was the 'norm'. Discipline in schools according to any measure has declined since then.
If we judge policy and effectiveness on the end result there would certainly be a correlation between Corporal Punishment and good discipline in schools, but as I say that is a matter of partnership between parents, teachers and governors, it is for 'stakeholders' to decide the range of measures they wish, if it included corporal punishment that would be up to them.
.
This is clearly reflected in your racist attitudes to our European and other friends.
.
In fact UKIP is populated by racist ill-informed bigots just like you. That is way ukip is and always will be a fringe party that will get nothing more than a few far right protest votes. You are a joke as is your nasty little party.
Bobfm
says...
9:17am Mon 3 May 10
But we know your views are lies at best, and psychotic at worst.
Were you proud of your psychopathology you would be open, honest, truthful and transparent. You are none of these things. But please feel free to carry on ranting, threatening, being abusive if it feels your lonely life.
As for me I will no longer respond to you. I have shown you up for the sad nonentity you are. Job done.
Old Town
says...
10:31am Tue 4 May 10
.
Do you believe corporal punishment should be bought back into our schools ?
.
Can you just please answer yes or no so we are all aware of your stance on this matter ?
More News stories
- ‘Legal’ drugs linked to two users’ deaths
- Author Sparkes some extra interest in children's stories
- Store manager is off to help out in Tanzania
- Prostitutes told to accept help, or face the law
- Help raise cash during White Horse walk
- School sets out plans to become academy
- Getting tough on TV licence dodgers
- VisitWiltshire chief joins partnership
- Community groups draw up plans for town’s future
- Nominations wanted for outstanding community policing
Meryl Grant and other parents and pupils of Lethbridge Primary School
Most popular
Local Information
Enter your postcode, town or place name
umpcah says...
8:36am Wed 28 Apr 10
"has the support of local police" Hm ! Is the council spokesman really saying that decisions were made after taking into account just SOME of the police objections ?