Thousands waiting for council homes (From Swindon Advertiser)
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Thousands waiting for council homes
12:30pm Saturday 4th February 2012 in News By Josh Layton
SWINDON’S waiting list for council houses has risen to more than 13,000 people, figures released this week show.
Another 1,183 households joined the queue last year, while only 217 homes were built in the town under a national regeneration scheme.
The situation reflects a shortage of council housing stock across England, with 40 families chasing every property.
The National Housing Federation, which compiled the statistics, warned the situation is likely to grow even worse unless there is rapid construction of cheap homes.
Jenny Allen, south west lead manager for the federation, said: “Despite a slow down in the housing market, house prices in Swindon remain out of reach for thousands of households, with the average home costing more than eight times the average local wage. This affordability issue, combined with the economic crisis, is clearly putting added pressure on the town’s social housing stock. “The latest figures show 13,218 households were on social housing waiting lists in Swindon in 2011 – a rise of 1,183 on the previous year.
“The problem is echoed across the south west region and with rising unemployment, benefits set to be slashed and private sector rents set to rise, we have grave concerns the situation is set to get even worse.
“Lack of supply is at the root of the problem. Ministers need to act now to turn the tide on the current housing crisis, ensuring homes continue to be built at scale in the region, that affordable housing options remain and that housing is regulated across all sectors.”
Gary Dodson, who has been on the waiting list for 20 years, blamed the backlog on the allocation system.
The father-of-five has been holding out for a house in Tedder Close, Pinehurst, where his mother Carol lived for 50 years before she died in December. The property was allocated to another family.
Mr Dodson, 47, who now lives in Somerset, said: “We are a big family who looked after the house for 50 years and were part of a community.
“It should have been given to us on compassionate grounds. I have two children in Somerset and three children in Swindon who would have come to live with me. I don’t understand the allocation policy.
“The problem is they are giving three-bedroom houses to people with two kids, and there are also people living in houses on their own.
“The homes are not being allocated to people who need them.”
A Swindon Borough Council spokesman said: “We recognise there is a need for more affordable housing in Swindon, but we cannot build more homes to match this demand as we don’t have the resources.
“We are committed to ensuring all future developments contain a significant proportion of affordable homes. So far this financial year we have delivered 227 affordable homes in Swindon with a further 162 scheduled to be built by next month.
“We will continue to ensure we allocate accommodation for those with the greatest need.”
Comments(85)
Robfm
says...
1:10pm Sat 4 Feb 12
The question clearly has to be asked, how many on this list really have a right to be on it.
I think the council should have to publish, not names but details of how many, non Swindon locals currently occupy houses and the same with the waiting list.
It is clear this is going to get much worse unless we 'shut the door'.
TinkeyWinkey
says...
1:17pm Sat 4 Feb 12
As for Gary Dodson - long gone are the days when a home went to the children when their parents passed away.
LordAshOfTheBrake
says...
1:20pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Complaining about Swindon's property prices is ridiculous. Swindon has relatively low house prices when you look at other parts of the South East/West.
What determines greatest need? The council should be very clear about that.
The next 5 to 10 years are going to be very hard for a lot of people and people will have to compromise. That is the result of Labours 15 years in government throwing money they didn't have to just about anyone.
Hmmmf
says...
1:20pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Adver wrote:
The situation reflects a shortage of council housing stock across England, with 40 families chasing every property.
Or does it reflect a large increase in population, and an increasing influx of people seeking council housing as Robfm's post infers? Why must the presumption always be that supply should always outstrip demand where council housing and 'free services' are concerned?
Jim Royle
says...
1:33pm Sat 4 Feb 12
TinkeyWinkey
says...
1:41pm Sat 4 Feb 12
MrAngry
says...
1:44pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Jim Royle wrote:The increase in the number of single parent families is also a factor.
Mad Maggie's flog it off policy without building new homes is a big cause of this. Coupled with a rise in population and the cost of buying a home it equals the mess the country is now in.
In the past 2 parents = 1 family = 1 house. Increasingly 2 parents = 2 families = 2 houses.
faatmaan
says...
1:52pm Sat 4 Feb 12
MrAngry
says...
1:52pm Sat 4 Feb 12
TinkeyWinkey wrote:The majority.
Also wonder how many of these people waiting for houses will have them completely paid for by Housing Benefit.
The best 'career' option for a 16 year old girl with poor qualifications and no job prospects is to get pregnant. A life time of benefits and a free house.
beach1e
says...
2:19pm Sat 4 Feb 12
I 2 Could B
says...
2:23pm Sat 4 Feb 12
It's not difficult to see why this country has no money left. Extrapolating the above figures, it's quite possible that around 40% of the residents of Swindon are either in council housing or fully subsidised by housing benefit.
And some people think things can continue like this?!?
MrAngry
says...
2:51pm Sat 4 Feb 12
The first paragraph states that 13,000 people are waiting, but further down the article says 13,218 households. If each household comprises an average of 2 people, more than 10% of the population are on the waiting list.
Presumably, most of those on the waiting list are in receipt of housing benefit.
nigelej
says...
3:25pm Sat 4 Feb 12
martinwicks
says...
4:09pm Sat 4 Feb 12
The 13,000 figure includes applications for transfer from existing tenants. I would imagine that the numbers would be much higher because a lot of people don't bother putting their names on the list because they know they don't have any chance of getting a house or flat.
Jim Royle's right. "Right to Buy" has created the shortage of housing. It has been a disaster. It's high time it was abandoned and they started building Council housing once again.
People with mortgages shouldn't be so snooty about people receiving HB. For many years people with mortgages received government subsidies. That was one of the favourites of the odious Margaret Thatcher - she was all in favour of 'middle class subsidies'.
Russell Holland
says...
4:18pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Every Council house tenant pays rent and they pay Council tax. All of them. Yes some tenants rely on benefits to help them but these are benefits that they are eligible for because they need them. Yes the welfare state needs reform but I am glad it is there to be help people.
Council tax does not pay for Council housing. Council housing is paid from rents and this money is "ring fenced" which means rents can only be spent on housing. Council tax by law cannot be used to subsidise Council housing.
Everyone uses public services in one form or another be it schools, hospitals, roads or anything else.
itsamess
says...
4:19pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Where in Swindon can they build that volume of houses?Can swindon take that volume without jobs or adequate income from leisure activities?
Just another number
says...
4:53pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Russell Holland wrote:No Council tenant pays as much rent or council tax as a private tenant does.
There seems to be some misunderstandings about Council houses and how they are financed.
Every Council house tenant pays rent and they pay Council tax. All of them. Yes some tenants rely on benefits to help them but these are benefits that they are eligible for because they need them. Yes the welfare state needs reform but I am glad it is there to be help people.
Council tax does not pay for Council housing. Council housing is paid from rents and this money is "ring fenced" which means rents can only be spent on housing. Council tax by law cannot be used to subsidise Council housing.
Everyone uses public services in one form or another be it schools, hospitals, roads or anything else.
13,000 people or households on the waiting list for Council housing -- does it matter what that number really represents?
I only see 13,000 people or households that are unwilling to be responsible for themselves. Get on a list, sign up for benefits, let the taxpayers do for you what you don't want to do for yourself. Then whinge when you spend all your money on bling and can't afford heat and food. Must be a good life because everyone seems to want it.
If you can't afford to support a child without help from the government, then don't have a child. Think about what kind of life you are giving that child if all they see is you waiting for a benefits check, living in a Council house, and not taking responsibility for your life or contributing to the community.
Almost everywhere else in the world people are expected to take responsibility for their own lives. Why must those in the UK who work and support themselves be taxed to death to support those who choose not to pay their own way?
Russell Holland
says...
5:04pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Housing is no different in principle to other forms of public provision. Society pools resources through the tax system to make things fairer.
I think the welfare state needs reform and I agree that there are deep rooted issues that need to be resolved. But I would rather something is there to help than nothing is there to help.
Meaningless generalisations about people who live in Council houses are neither accurate or helpful.
old 'arry
says...
5:05pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Robfm wrote:You'll never get it because the do-gooders will scream in horror if it shows how many asylum seekers are housed.
Now how many houses would Swindon's share of £68 billion build. The question clearly has to be asked, how many on this list really have a right to be on it. I think the council should have to publish, not names but details of how many, non Swindon locals currently occupy houses and the same with the waiting list. It is clear this is going to get much worse unless we 'shut the door'.
Dazz27
says...
5:25pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Just another number wrote:you truely are a **** some people work all there life then through a can afford to bring up kids then one day something happens that means they are left alone to bring up there kids a they may not want to but need to accept help from benefits until they can get back out to work, so dont just asume all people waiting for a house or living in a council house are scroungers who spend all of there benefits on bling. i have a council house a i never get the council out to do repairs unless it electrical or gas related i do most of it myself so your thoughts on council tennants a people on list are crap
Russell Holland wrote: There seems to be some misunderstandings about Council houses and how they are financed. Every Council house tenant pays rent and they pay Council tax. All of them. Yes some tenants rely on benefits to help them but these are benefits that they are eligible for because they need them. Yes the welfare state needs reform but I am glad it is there to be help people. Council tax does not pay for Council housing. Council housing is paid from rents and this money is "ring fenced" which means rents can only be spent on housing. Council tax by law cannot be used to subsidise Council housing. Everyone uses public services in one form or another be it schools, hospitals, roads or anything else.No Council tenant pays as much rent or council tax as a private tenant does. 13,000 people or households on the waiting list for Council housing -- does it matter what that number really represents? I only see 13,000 people or households that are unwilling to be responsible for themselves. Get on a list, sign up for benefits, let the taxpayers do for you what you don't want to do for yourself. Then whinge when you spend all your money on bling and can't afford heat and food. Must be a good life because everyone seems to want it. If you can't afford to support a child without help from the government, then don't have a child. Think about what kind of life you are giving that child if all they see is you waiting for a benefits check, living in a Council house, and not taking responsibility for your life or contributing to the community. Almost everywhere else in the world people are expected to take responsibility for their own lives. Why must those in the UK who work and support themselves be taxed to death to support those who choose not to pay their own way?
Dazz27
says...
5:32pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Dazz27 wrote:some people work all there life a can afford to bring up kids,,,,,,, Is how the start of the message should read
Just another number wrote:you truely are a **** some people work all there life then through a can afford to bring up kids then one day something happens that means they are left alone to bring up there kids a they may not want to but need to accept help from benefits until they can get back out to work, so dont just asume all people waiting for a house or living in a council house are scroungers who spend all of there benefits on bling. i have a council house a i never get the council out to do repairs unless it electrical or gas related i do most of it myself so your thoughts on council tennants a people on list are crapRussell Holland wrote: There seems to be some misunderstandings about Council houses and how they are financed. Every Council house tenant pays rent and they pay Council tax. All of them. Yes some tenants rely on benefits to help them but these are benefits that they are eligible for because they need them. Yes the welfare state needs reform but I am glad it is there to be help people. Council tax does not pay for Council housing. Council housing is paid from rents and this money is "ring fenced" which means rents can only be spent on housing. Council tax by law cannot be used to subsidise Council housing. Everyone uses public services in one form or another be it schools, hospitals, roads or anything else.No Council tenant pays as much rent or council tax as a private tenant does. 13,000 people or households on the waiting list for Council housing -- does it matter what that number really represents? I only see 13,000 people or households that are unwilling to be responsible for themselves. Get on a list, sign up for benefits, let the taxpayers do for you what you don't want to do for yourself. Then whinge when you spend all your money on bling and can't afford heat and food. Must be a good life because everyone seems to want it. If you can't afford to support a child without help from the government, then don't have a child. Think about what kind of life you are giving that child if all they see is you waiting for a benefits check, living in a Council house, and not taking responsibility for your life or contributing to the community. Almost everywhere else in the world people are expected to take responsibility for their own lives. Why must those in the UK who work and support themselves be taxed to death to support those who choose not to pay their own way?
LordAshOfTheBrake
says...
5:40pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Do you think your approach is typical of council tennants or do you think you are one of the few prepared to get stuck in and do things? I suspect your in a minority.
The benefits system should be their exactly as you describe it "then one day something happens that means they are left alone to bring up there kids a they may not want to but need to accept help from benefits until they can get back out to work"; a system to aid people to get back on their feet. I know a couple of people who have made nice little gains from social housing.
Unfortunately it is far too open to abuse and their are too many well documented cases of people using the welfare system (including social housing) to fund very comfortable life styles.
Just Another Number's view may be bordering extreme, but it an example of the polar'd nature society is becoming.
The whole council house situation needs sorting out but that takes time and will of which their is none left in politics.
Just another number
says...
5:55pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Russell Holland wrote:Is there help available for everyone?
Just another number - do you think if someone can't afford private education then they shouldn't have a child and if they can't afford private healthcare then they shouldn't have a child?
Housing is no different in principle to other forms of public provision. Society pools resources through the tax system to make things fairer.
I think the welfare state needs reform and I agree that there are deep rooted issues that need to be resolved. But I would rather something is there to help than nothing is there to help.
Meaningless generalisations about people who live in Council houses are neither accurate or helpful.
No.
Why don't you tell us what there is on offer to help those who are single with no dependants? They also find themselves in unfortunate circumstances, the difference is that they have no choice but to sort out their own lives because, unless they allow themselves to become homeless and destitute, there is nothing for them at all.
Absolutely nothing.
Are you aware that single people pay 75% of the council tax that a couple or a family would pay. Think about it, one income, full rent, higher bills because energy providers penalise low users, and almost the same council tax as a family. A single person doesn't put children in the schools, or require as much from any other service. And yet they are the people most responsible as individuals for funding the services for others. It is impossible for anyone without a partner to bring in a second income, or a child that gives access to benefits and housing, to have a good quality of life on the average UK salary.
Taxation, benefits, and housing need to be equitable for all.
Is that enough meaning for your generalisations? Or shall we continue to exclude the hard working people who most deserve a bit of help when they need it?
house on the hill
says...
7:34pm Sat 4 Feb 12
There are 10,500 council properties and around 15,000 tenants.
Around 5,000 properties were sold off under right to buy, of which only 25% of the monies went to housing the rest went to central Govt.
Around 70% of tentants receive either full or part housing benefit from the taxpayer. Rents are subsidised and kept low mainly for this reason because the Govt couldnt afford to pay market rents in housing benefit, so to all those who pompously say "I pay my rent" what you actually do is "pay your subsidsied and artificially low rent".
Part of the problem is that too many were sold off and the money wasnt reinvested in council housing in swindon.
Part of the problem is also that while there is a qualification to get into social housing there is none to get out, so there are many who dont need it and wouldnt qualify if they applied now, but of course love the cheap rent so stay there meaning those who really need it cant get on the ladder. The leader of the RMT on £140k a year still lives in a council house! Er why??? Cheap rent of course. I wonder how many other houses he "owns" in other peoples names.
The other part is that as many have said the whole welfare system is pathetically soft and allows the current, lazy, "me first and sod the rest of you" generation who see free housing and benefits as a right rather than a privelidge to live in this caring country milk it for all its worth.
I have no problem with those who need benefits and housing to have it provided, but I do have a problem with those who systematically abuse it by staying there when they have no need of it and those who would rather scrounge than work. Why is it that those already on benefits who then continue to breed are given bigger houses and more benefits. How are we ever going to teach responsibility and respect while we continue to encourage lazyness and reward them with more and more taxpayers money whilst they contribute absolutely nothing.
Society is its own worst enemy, we need change and fast or we will sink without trace under the welfare system. Policy change and a change in attitude from individuals who seem to know all thier "rights" but have no clue as to their personal responsibilites to Govt, or their fellow man.
Dazz27
says...
7:57pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Russell Holland
says...
7:59pm Sat 4 Feb 12
I think the point some people seem to be missing is that housing, is in principle, no different from any other form of taxpayer funded service. To those who wish to make generalisations about Council house tenants - would you make the same generalisations about people who go to state schools or to people who use the NHS? I doubt it. What is it that troubles you so much about people who make use of one state service but not another?
Most people who go through life want to do their best to make it a success. Some people fall on hard times through no fault of their own. Some people abuse the welfare system. The point I am making is that reform of the system should start with an accurate, fair and reasonable analysis of what the problems are and unfavourable and inaccurate generalisations don't do that.
House - as to my profession - there are plenty of barristers (as well as people in all walks of life) who grew up in Council houses - the idea that there is some divide between Council tenants and everyone else is not a sound one.
house on the hill
says...
8:14pm Sat 4 Feb 12
And I dont tar everyone with the same brush, As I said I have no problem contribuiting to the welfare of those who really need my help, but I do object to contributing to those who clearly dont and are abusing the system in ever increasing numbers condoned by successive govts being too soft and too pathetic to stand up and be counted. Why do you think so many immigrants travel through 5 or 6 countries to get here?
Clearly we cannot continue to house people in the numbers we seem to require so somethnig has to change before the whole thing collapses, so lets stop the talk and lets see politicians actually do something rather than just agreeing something needs to be done and lets have another 25 meetings to discuss it!
Just another number
says...
8:31pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Everyone who isn't on benefits and/or in a council house knows exactly what the problem is -- what should be a stopgap measure to help someone in need for a short time has become a lifestyle choice that can easily provide a far better life than working for a living can. And those people are raising their children to live as they do, at the taxpayer's expense. After all, it is a good life and what child doesn't wish to live as well as their parents?
I take great pride in the fact that I've made it through hard times in my life without ever asking for handouts, but what is that worth when I know that in doing so I am supporting a growing number of people who choose to be parasites on society under a government run by politician who won't do anything about it for fear of losing a few votes.
Russell Holland
says...
8:32pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Local Government is quite limited in what it can do because it has to follow the Central Government policy. I think the Coalition Government is taking the need to get control of public spending seriously and I broadly support the measures that they are taking.
In Swindon we are working on policies to encourage individuals, families and communities to take greater responsibility. Change is slow and takes time but I do feel that we are going in the right direction.
Russell Holland
says...
8:48pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Also there are going to be some people who through no fault of their own e.g. medical problems who may never be able to work and live independently.
The point I'm making is that the reason we need state intervention is that left to market forces some people will miss out through no fault of their own.
We have state schools because without state intervention the market would not provide an education for everyone. I think almost everyone would agree with taxpayer funded education but not everyone would agree the state telling governors, heads and teachers what to do all day. That's why I support academies - the taxpayer pays for it but the individual school has more control to best respond to needs.
Same with healthcare, I think the NHS in principle is a good idea - but when millions are spent because people abuse drugs and alcohol - then some reform is needed to encourage more personal responsibility.
Housing is more complex - there are lots of people who work but who cannot afford to buy a house - the market is not responding to this.
I can understand your frustrations with the unfairness in the welfare system but it's not fair to make a judgment about everyone who uses it just because some people abuse it.
house on the hill
says...
8:52pm Sat 4 Feb 12
How many on the waiting list are actually in real need and how many are there "just in case!? As I have said before its about rights and responsibilites that no one seems to understand that they have both. I do understand your hands are tiedand I aso agree that the wrong decision was made on the transfer, but again this was because it was a selfish me me me political decision rather than a wider financial one that would have benefitted some of those on the list releasing money to build more houses.
I just hope you can find a solution, as the waiting list is growing by the day and if you dont there will be real problems facing not only the housing department but also the council and tax payer who do pay for covering the homeless in thier full price rental houses, so actually this does affect the tax payer as we have to fund the temporary accomodation that is required in ever increasing numbers.
Just another number
says...
8:57pm Sat 4 Feb 12
So, has any progress been made in lowering the teen pregnancy rate in Swindon?
Didn't think so.
How about in attracting business so that more entry level jobs are available?
Didn't think so.
What about building affordable homes for those who don't qualify for the Council House waiting list or just don't want handouts?
Didn't think so.
What if all the money wasted on vanity projects and failed business ventures had been spent on making a real difference for the community?
I guess we'll never know, will we?
house on the hill
says...
9:48pm Sat 4 Feb 12
do we know how much is spent on housing those who arent in social housing who are housed by the council at tax payers expense?
outlaw
says...
10:20pm Sat 4 Feb 12
How many are unmarried mums who's lovers/boyfriends are not supporting their children? How much is being paid in housing benefit? Why is a man in Somerset on a Swindon housing list?
Russell Holland
says...
10:23pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Another number - I am happy to stand by the record of the Conservative Administration, not everything has been perfect and there is no room for complacency but there have been improvements. Under Labour Swindon was one of the worst Council's in the country and services had to be taken over by the central government. We have been one of the fastest improving Councils in the country and the Council is increasingly getting recognition at a national level for its work.
See the following for a few examples:
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9353880.Counci
l_doing_well_in_cari
ng_for_kids/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/8910928.Counci
l_praised_by_inspect
ors_for_child_protec
tion/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/5199145.Home_c
are_services_praised
_by_inspectors/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/4839994.Counci
l_is_the_top_for_chi
ld_protection/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/1867137.Counci
l_care_team_are_risi
ng_stars/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9376299.Counci
l___s_work_with_fami
lies_recognised/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9196378.Camero
n_praises_Swindon_tr
oubled_families_sche
me/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9407192.Town_s
peech_therapists_win
_prestige_award/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9419996.Retail
_guru_praises_car_pa
rking_price_cut/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9391715.A_year
_on_and_the_Parade_i
s_booming/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/8181784.A_year
_on_from_our_Big_Wee
kend_mania/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/4863082.Counci
l_celebrates_glowing
_reports/
westswin
says...
2:15am Sun 5 Feb 12
Me thinks that they certainly knew what to do and say to get a nice big house.
Robfm
says...
8:21am Sun 5 Feb 12
The system is a mess. I was reading an article with regard to a Czech family of 8 (6 children) coming to the UK and given a council house, then complaining it was only 3 bedroom.
It didn't stop them having another child (7) clearly to circumvent the resident requirement.
The man was on benefits having never worked in the UK.
The whole time this is happening then as the 5th most densely populated country in the world things can only get worse with predictions of 70 million people by 2020.
According to the UN/WHO we are already 3 million above what they define as the optimum area/person requirement.
We really have to now adopt a 3 out, 1 in policy, but of course we can't because of the EU and our stupidity in not applying the 10 year waver that other EU countries did.
That really was down to Labour.
Robfm
says...
8:30am Sun 5 Feb 12
http://www.insidehou
sing.co.uk/tenancies
/environmental-group
s-urged-to-block-imm
igration/6519805.art
icle
TinkeyWinkey
says...
8:37am Sun 5 Feb 12
Close it to anyone from outside Swindon until we can at least help those living within the Borough. And that includes immigrants who turn up on the doorstep thinking a house and benefits are automatically at hand as soon as they arrive!!
Just another number
says...
9:58am Sun 5 Feb 12
Russell Holland wrote:Russell Holland -- If Swindon is doing so well, why it is that the ONS, Acorn, league tables, economic reports, etc. don't ever show the results that the Council claim? I'll give you a hint -- spin isn't real.
House - the main restriction we have is funding - in the current economic climate I don't think it is likely that significant sums will be made available. We have had meetings with the Government to see if anything can be done following the transfer vote. The more likely solution is the affordable housing policy for new developments.
Another number - I am happy to stand by the record of the Conservative Administration, not everything has been perfect and there is no room for complacency but there have been improvements. Under Labour Swindon was one of the worst Council's in the country and services had to be taken over by the central government. We have been one of the fastest improving Councils in the country and the Council is increasingly getting recognition at a national level for its work.
See the following for a few examples:
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9353880.Counci
l_doing_well_in_cari
ng_for_kids/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/8910928.Counci
l_praised_by_inspect
ors_for_child_protec
tion/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/5199145.Home_c
are_services_praised
_by_inspectors/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/4839994.Counci
l_is_the_top_for_chi
ld_protection/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/1867137.Counci
l_care_team_are_risi
ng_stars/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9376299.Counci
l___s_work_with_fami
lies_recognised/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9196378.Camero
n_praises_Swindon_tr
oubled_families_sche
me/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9407192.Town_s
peech_therapists_win
_prestige_award/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9419996.Retail
_guru_praises_car_pa
rking_price_cut/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/9391715.A_year
_on_and_the_Parade_i
s_booming/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/8181784.A_year
_on_from_our_Big_Wee
kend_mania/
http://www.swindonad
vertiser.co.uk/news/
local/4863082.Counci
l_celebrates_glowing
_reports/
How amusing that you post a link about the Big Weekend, when we all know that left the Council with a substantial debt rather than the promised opposite. That was a real success for the Council, wasn't it? I'm sure that the audience enjoyed it, but at a high price for the community. The rest can be just as easily seen to be what they are, half truths, spin, hype, propaganda, political posturing. Shall I go on?
How sad that you assume that every member of the public is naive and ignorant of what goes on in the Council and as such will believe anything in the Adver. Some of us know enough to see that spin for just what it's worth -- nothing. Why not post links to some hard facts rather than something manufactured to deceive?
Robfm
says...
11:17am Sun 5 Feb 12
Interesting debate this morning about capping welfare a £26500. Right at the end a Muslim Cleric described expecting large families ( he clearly was talking Muslim large families) to move from expensive areas, whilst on benefit to cheaper area as Cameron engaging in ethnic cleansing.
Needless to say there was hardly a ripple of applause.
Housing is the tip of a very big iceberg and until localism means exactly that expect the list to get longer and more diverse when other non EU countries fiddle entry into the UK, in addition to states like Turkey joining the EU.
Hmmmf
says...
12:07pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Russell Holland wrote:
Everyone uses public services in one form or another be it schools, hospitals, roads or anything else.
Housing is no different in principle to other forms of public provision.
I think the point some people seem to be missing is that housing, is in principle, no different from any other form of taxpayer funded service.
Perhaps if you say it often enough people might start believing it. It's complete nonsense of course. State education is available to all, council houses and housing benefit certainly aren't. The NHS is available to all, council houses and housing benefit certainly aren't. Roads are available to all (who can afford to use them and pay the relevant road taxes and insurances), council houses and housing benefit certainly aren't. Unless and until the public purse provides low-rent accommodation to everyone in the UK your claim that Housing is no different to any other public service is specious at best.
Russell Holland
says...
12:16pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Hmmmf - the point I was making is that I don't think it is fair to make generalisations about people who live in Council houses. Everyone uses public services in one form or another. While I think the welfare state needs reform, I am glad it is there to help. The problem of housing is more complex than other areas but the principle of taxpayer funded services to assist those in need is the same.
Just another number
says...
12:42pm Sun 5 Feb 12
And worse still you have to put in the usual political rubbish about how people must be pleased with the Conservatives. And your own sweeping generalisations about the opposition. But then what's a little hypocrisy when you believe that no one will notice? So tell us, is the Council proud of the antics of Rod Bluh and his mate Rikki Hunt? Or how much it spends on consultants to do the job that highly paid directors haven't got the skills to do themselves? Or of how poorly it manages S106 money -- how much was it that was lost last year?
It's obvious that you think that members of the public should only believe what they are told by the Council however stretched and distorted So here's something that may be news to you, not all of the public are that gullible and it doesn't take much effort to uncover the truth.
Russell Holland
says...
1:45pm Sun 5 Feb 12
MrAngry
says...
6:31pm Sun 5 Feb 12
However, I fail to understand how conservatives can criticise labour for raising council tax by 42% when they increased it by a few percent the following year.
Council tax rises are cumulative. If labour were overcharging, why did the tories feel the need to increase the tax further. The tory rise was on top of labour's 42%.
Robfm
says...
6:40pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Is SBC going to say it has to rise.
Russell Holland
says...
6:55pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Robfm
says...
7:01pm Sun 5 Feb 12
You have simply frozen the tax until such time as it returned to a reasonable figure.
MrAngry
says...
7:11pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Russell Holland wrote:....... but the tories clearly felt that the 42% rise was justified or they would have cut council tax when they had the chance. Instead they increased it, albeit by a small amount.
MrAngry - Council tax increased under Labour but the services became the worst in the country. The Conservatives have had lower Council tax increases and the services have improved. It's a question of how Labour managed the money they had.
who dat?
says...
7:14pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Hmmmf
says...
7:55pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Russell Holland wrote:
Hmmmf - the point I was making is that I don't think it is fair to make generalisations about people who live in Council houses. Everyone uses public services in one form or another. While I think the welfare state needs reform, I am glad it is there to help. The problem of housing is more complex than other areas but the principle of taxpayer funded services to assist those in need is the same.
But council houses are not paid for from the public purse, they are not provided as a public service no matter how many times you keep inferring that they are.
Russell Holland wrote:
Council tax does not pay for Council housing. Council housing is paid from rents and this money is "ring fenced" which means rents can only be spent on housing. Council tax by law cannot be used to subsidise Council housing.
Continually stating "everyone uses public services in one form or another" is disingenuous; claiming that because someone uses roads or an NHS dentist therefore they shouldn't complain about people who have never paid a penny in UK tax or national insurance receiving free housing and associated benefits is illogical.
Jim Royle
says...
8:09pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Russell Holland wrote:No increases= less services. Nothing has improved at all and even street lights are now out at night.
MrAngry - Council tax increased under Labour but the services became the worst in the country. The Conservatives have had lower Council tax increases and the services have improved. It's a question of how Labour managed the money they had.
Russell Holland
says...
9:38pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Jim - I will agree to differ - Labour voted with the Conservative proposal to increase Council tax by 0% last year.
Hmmmf - I agree there is a difference between Council housing and other public services because of the nature of it but the point is that the state provides help to those who are eligible for housing the need. I don't mind fair and reasoned criticisms, what I was objecting to was some people making unfair comments about everyone who lives in a Council house.
Just another number
says...
9:45pm Sun 5 Feb 12
It may be claimed that services have improved in Swindon, but it's only claimed. Little if any proof can be found anywhere outside of the spin manufactured by the SBC or the Conservative councillors. If any of that is real, provide some independent evidence.
As for Housing, if it's not available to everyone, and it clearly isn't. Then it's not truly a public service. Even the Council call centre advises people that the only way they can hope to get on the list for council housing is to have a dependent child.
Have a child and get a house -- it's fairly obvious that young people are acting on that advice. And SBC clearly isn't doing enough about it.
itsamess
says...
12:16am Mon 6 Feb 12
Often you make good points. I am equally critical of our councils performance in many areas--however--like many i do not see you offering any workable solutions.
How many true swindonians (with a brain) are councillors? In fact (more relevant) how many top staff are from here and live in the town?
Further how many staff are true swindonians?
Take that further--honda--work
ers come from far and wide.
Yet our town has the highest unemployment and benefits take up.
Do you have the answer to these problems?
http://Www.Swindon.Org.UK
says...
4:51am Mon 6 Feb 12
MrAngry wrote:
Jim Royle wrote:The increase in the number of single parent families is also a factor.
Mad Maggie's flog it off policy without building new homes is a big cause of this. Coupled with a rise in population and the cost of buying a home it equals the mess the country is now in.
In the past 2 parents = 1 family = 1 house. Increasingly 2 parents = 2 families = 2 houses.
The increase in the number of single parent families is also a factor. In the past 2 parents = 1 family = 1 house. Increasingly 2 parents = 2 families = 2 houses.
Untrue in the UK it is mainly one parent that gets custody(residency).
So the other parent can't claim a dependent and is there fore a single person with little chance of getting a council flat let alone a house.
He or she would need to be homeless, addicted to drugs etc.etc.
In fact council housing is often easier to get as a single parent than a married couple.
That's the point of social housing.
It's to help those with low incomes.
Most familes and married couples have more income than a single parent.
http://Www.Swindon.Org.UK
says...
5:07am Mon 6 Feb 12
who dat? wrote:In such a case the family would have to have been resident 3 yrs paid tax and have rights of abode in the UK.
Is it true that a Muslim with 4 wives with kids can come to this country and 3 of the wives get their own home as we do not legally recognise multiple wives - one is classed as a wife,the others are single parents ??
Hard to live in UK without any income for 3 yrs.
If they were refugees, then they can't work legally until their status is decided (usually takes 2yrs+ due to inept processing).
A family would be housed, but generally not in social housing but private rented accom. Paid for by central goverment.
If not a refugee and an out of work UK resident muslim. Then the main family would possibly be given a council house after a period of homelessness or a long wait.
The other wives aren't recognised and would have to apply as single women.
if each wife had a kid of their own with the father, only one parent can claim support for the child.
Who ever received the child benefit would be deemed the parent.
If they all claimed for one child then they'd have to make 3 claims and the family would be split up and each parent would be further down the lists.
How many cases like the one mention do you know of?
It's not a common thing for a muslim to have more than one wife nowadays.
Why not ask about uk men that have a dozen kids with multiple women and never pay for any of them?
Plenty of them on the Jeremy Kyle show.
Robfm
says...
7:23am Mon 6 Feb 12
The whole allocation system needs changing, only HMG can do that, what SBC could do is use the localism condition they were given more often.
They can strip out all those with a vague 'right'. Build hostels for the druggies, homeless etc. Not provide the luxury of a house or flat at the expense of those who do make an effort.
As for Swindons unemployment rate, it was the lowest in the UK a few short years ago, now it's one of the highest.
It is not simply once again the economic down turn that has done this. Even companies like Honda despite claims by some to the contrary are still bringing over Eastern Europeans for interviews for the 500 jobs, when 2500 people applied in the UK we are told.
There may be EU rules but it does seem Britain alone complies to the letter.
A.Baron-Cohen
says...
9:13am Mon 6 Feb 12
Robfm
says...
9:44am Mon 6 Feb 12
Look at the Muse development they are actually being paid to build and then they make the profit by selling it back to the people paying to have it built.
Were they having to fund it themselves they would like as not walk away.
Builders want to build small clusters but SBC seem to discourage that.
itsamess
says...
9:46am Mon 6 Feb 12
Housing officers do help many applicants to find private rentals.
Honda have for years invited EU residents over for training in swindon--they do have factories as well in the EU. One factory is still not in production-reportedl
y waiting for new technology to get the full go ahead.
Tinkerbell76
says...
12:46pm Mon 6 Feb 12
At the end of that day if you have a job you can go out and buy yourself a home.. dont expect us tax payers to pay it for you!!!! get off you bums and stop immergration so we can have our towns and cities back
house on the hill
says...
9:45pm Mon 6 Feb 12
The other thing to look at is why people are in need. Quite a few shouldnt be in need and have worked all their lives but instead of paying into a pension or providing for their own old age, they chose instead to pi55 it up against a wall over their life and then expect the tax payer to look after them on the premise of "well i have paid into it so i deserve it" If everyone had the same selfish attitude the country would have gone broke years ago but their igonorance doesnt extend to working that one out. There is no incentive to be prudent with your money and every incentive not to be like the obnoxious toe rag who won over £10million on the lottery and partied it all away on women, drink and drugs and now lives at the tax payers expense, er why??????
Yes the waiting list needs to be seriously trimmed and only those who have no option but to be on it should be allowed to be there and wanting to move to swindon from outside should not be a reason to qualify nor should breeding like rabbits from fathers unknown.
And to Russell, as for generalisations, you need to put your own house in order first. I had occasion to advise various people about their benefits over the years but never have i been subjected to people looking down their noses at others as i witnessed at the benefit office in the council, benefit claimants are left on no doubt they are second class citizens by the arrogant igonrant staff. And some of the housing staff werent much better talking openly about "scrounging tenants" and "send them back where they came from" when they thought they werent being overheard, but I think the worst thing i heard from a housing officer a while back was "what you have to remember is that tenants lie!" So please before you criticise others for generalisation, maybe you need to look much closer to home. I did hear on my grape vine that one housing officer was cheating on her own benefit claim, I am not sure how true it was but i guess there is no smoke without fire.
housing should go to those in true need and those who can support themsleves should do so, if ont of thier own free will then made to, the country cannot support the current levels of claimants which are on the increase and society needs people to grow up and take responsibility for their own lives before we all go down in flames
martinwicks
says...
11:02am Tue 7 Feb 12
Anybody interested in understanding the impact of RTB should have a look at this:
http://keepourcounci
lhomes.wordpress.com
/2012/02/01/why-the-
right-to-buy-should-
be-abandoned/
itsamess
says...
11:27am Tue 7 Feb 12
Like most you forget the RTB had qualifying periods and an escalator to gain the maximum discount off the market value.
Perhaps you should collate some figures as to the costs of replacing a house--which in the early years was relatively cheap.
Like wise it is far cheaper for the govt to support benefit claimants in council housing than private rentals.
martinwicks
says...
12:28pm Tue 7 Feb 12
eddyxx
says...
1:34pm Tue 7 Feb 12
house on the hill
says...
1:58pm Tue 7 Feb 12
If everyone had the same attitude that the state should provide no matter what the country would collapse.
We need to be encouraging more people to buy their houses so that when they retire, they dont either have to pay a large chunk of their hard earned pensions on housing costs, or as so many seem to think acceptable, that the taxpayer should provide them with subsidised social housing or benefits or both.
As with pretty much everything in this world it comes down to attitudes and for most, they are just too selfish and disrepectful of others around them with no sense of responsibility in any shape of form.
Maybe the council would like to tell us how they are going to solve this problem instead of just endless excuses and blame for things that are in the past and cant be changed. Stop looking back and look forward and decide how we save Swindon housing from complete collapse (although the way the council operate it will collapse anyway)
itsamess
says...
2:10pm Tue 7 Feb 12
Do check the figures--they will surprise you.
Do take a little good advice--work with the council--not against them--you will learn more and perhaps get things going in the right direction. A few high rise blocks for a starter.
eddyxx
says...
2:22pm Tue 7 Feb 12
cjones03824
says...
4:34pm Tue 7 Feb 12
I am a 23 year old girl single yes!! Who lives in a studio council flat...i do not have children, i do not claim benefits or ANY sort. I pay my full rent on time every month along will my council tax and all other bills! i work TWO Jobs and study part time.
Me and my dad spent 4 months "doing up" my flat so that it could be a long term home for me. i have had housing officers come in to my place and comment on what a great job we have done with the place!! i do not generally use the repairs service unless it is something i or any of my family cannot do ourselves.
i would like to know where the people making assumptions about all single girls who live in council properties get their nerve from. i would personally like to see an apology from some people since i (allong with oher hard working people) seem to have been tarred with the same brush they use on everyone else who lives on a council home!
dmw1984
says...
4:52pm Tue 7 Feb 12
cjones03824 wrote:I agree with you there, I live in a council and can't afford to rent privately I work full time myself and studied part time.
I have to say some of the comments about council tenants on here are so small minded and stereotypical it makes me mad! I am a 23 year old girl single yes!! Who lives in a studio council flat...i do not have children, i do not claim benefits or ANY sort. I pay my full rent on time every month along will my council tax and all other bills! i work TWO Jobs and study part time. Me and my dad spent 4 months "doing up" my flat so that it could be a long term home for me. i have had housing officers come in to my place and comment on what a great job we have done with the place!! i do not generally use the repairs service unless it is something i or any of my family cannot do ourselves. i would like to know where the people making assumptions about all single girls who live in council properties get their nerve from. i would personally like to see an apology from some people since i (allong with oher hard working people) seem to have been tarred with the same brush they use on everyone else who lives on a council home!
Some people will exploit the system, and it's those loopholes that need to closed. When I get a better paying job I will be looking to buy my own property.
You can't tar everyone who lives in council house/estate with the same brush, I'd also like to point out that I grew up in the Parks and now live in Walcot. And no I've never been in trouble with police or use drugs.
Robfm
says...
7:09pm Tue 7 Feb 12
Just another number
says...
8:06pm Tue 7 Feb 12
cjones03824 wrote:Interesting, I've known people in far worse circumstances than being single and leaving home for the first time who the Council refused to even put on the Council Housing list.
I have to say some of the comments about council tenants on here are so small minded and stereotypical it makes me mad!
I am a 23 year old girl single yes!! Who lives in a studio council flat...i do not have children, i do not claim benefits or ANY sort. I pay my full rent on time every month along will my council tax and all other bills! i work TWO Jobs and study part time.
Me and my dad spent 4 months "doing up" my flat so that it could be a long term home for me. i have had housing officers come in to my place and comment on what a great job we have done with the place!! i do not generally use the repairs service unless it is something i or any of my family cannot do ourselves.
i would like to know where the people making assumptions about all single girls who live in council properties get their nerve from. i would personally like to see an apology from some people since i (allong with oher hard working people) seem to have been tarred with the same brush they use on everyone else who lives on a council home!
People who were homeless through divorce or similar misfortune, things that they didn't do to themselves. Decent hard working people who just needed a bit of help to rebuild their lives.
They got nothing, even though they worked and paid their taxes for many years before they found themselves in need.
And you get a studio flat? When I think of the difference that having a studio flat, for even a few months, would have meant to those people, it just makes me angry.
cjones03824
says...
11:49am Wed 8 Feb 12
i waited on the list for 7 years i was not priority however when i bid on the flat i now live in i had the most "points" against my name. This is the way the system works, if someone who was a higher priority than me had bid on the flat they would have got it. i was not given my home at a whim i had to wait a very long time to get it.
i do not deny that i am lucky to have my council home however i don’t think that i should be made to feel like i should not have it! as DMW said i don’t intend to be in council housing forever as soon as i can afford to pay £550.00- £700.00 PM for a privately rented 1 bed flat i will do so until then im afraid it is highly unachievable.
can someone confirm exactly what the criteria is to be able to have a council property..or are your "criteria" all assumptions!!
Robfm
says...
12:05pm Wed 8 Feb 12
eddyxx
says...
4:07pm Wed 8 Feb 12
martinwicks
says...
5:07pm Wed 8 Feb 12
And, of course, some people who buy a house only do so because there is no chance of getting a Council house.
Robfm
says...
8:57am Thu 9 Feb 12
No they realise they can afford to purchase and so not tie up a Council house for someone who cannot afford to buy.
It's called being socially responsible and independent of the State.
eddyxx
says...
9:37am Thu 9 Feb 12
Robfm wrote:Being socially responsible? Is that a joke where's the social responsibility in the the number of people that get houses who do not work don't want to work won't work have kids that push them higher up the list, where's the social responsibility in a pregnant 16 year old demanding society and tax payers take care of her because her and her baby won't have anywhere to live, yes I agree she's entitled to it but its as if council houses are allocated to those that are socially irresponsible and sit there in their castles with two fingers up to those that work hard and are equally if not more deserving than they are. Points systems, its a joke.
"And, of course, some people who buy a house only do so because there is no chance of getting a Council house.”
No they realise they can afford to purchase and so not tie up a Council house for someone who cannot afford to buy.
It's called being socially responsible and independent of the State.
Robfm
says...
9:51am Thu 9 Feb 12
I think the scoring system may be kept secret to avoid some inventing conditions that give them points.
eddyxx
says...
11:33am Thu 9 Feb 12
Robfm
says...
11:46am Thu 9 Feb 12
At least the Government is trying to alter the rules, removing the right for life, and making rents proportionate to income, in effect trying to get those who could afford to buy their own to do so, or pay private sector market rent.
MrAngry says...
12:52pm Sat 4 Feb 12