Bailiffs raking in cash for council

8:00am Tuesday 25th September 2012 in News By Josh Layton

THE full scale of Swindon Council’s reliance on bailiffs has been revealed in figures showing the firms are taking in hundreds of thousands of pounds every year.

A handful of companies are making a fortune despite their tactics having been criticised for unfairly penalising poor and vulnerable people.

Debt collectors recovered £170,000 in car parking fees alone between 2011 and 2012, of which they retained £100,000. But the companies have also recouped more than £1m in council tax every year since 2009, and retained an undisclosed share of the proceeds.

Swindon Council said it does not hold information showing how much money the companies kept from this amount in fees.

But if the percentage claimed from council tax is similar to that from parking, the total share taken by the companies would amount to several million pounds in the past four years.

Bailiffs also recovered £244,000 in business rates between 2011 and 2012, with the local authority again saying it could not reveal the share retained by the firms.

The council has been criticised by Swindon’s Citizens Advice Bureau in the past over its use of the firms after families turned to the service to say they felt threatened.

The spotlight also fell on the practice earlier this year when a woman had her car clamped on her drive by a bailiff for an offence by someone with a different name.

Dozens of complaints have been made against the companies, with 29 lodged last year over council tax and business rates alone. Five have been made since April.

The firms currently instructed include Chandlers, Equita, Marstons, Ross & Roberts and Phoenix.

They chased 5,200 council tax debts, 271 business rates debts and followed up 1,988 warrants for the car parking department between 2011 and 2012.

The figures were released in a reply to a Freedom of Information Act request by the Adver.

Council leader Rod Bluh said: “I cannot comment on how bailiffs carry out their duty as you have good bailiffs and bad bailiffs.

“As a general principle clearly the council has a duty to collect the debts and in some cases unfortunately it results in the use of bailiffs.

“As the figures show this has had a beneficial outcome as they have managed to recover substantial debts, in particular with connection to council tax.

“Every pound that someone should pay in council tax represents a pound that has been paid by someone else.”

Asked about the track record of the companies instructed by the council, Coun Bluh said: “I would hope we are using professional firms.

“In eight years doing the job there have been lots of complaints over whether people should be pursued for debts, but I don’t recall any fundamental issues arising from the way bailiffs are doing business.”

Comments(21)

RichardR1 says...
8:48am Tue 25 Sep 12

This is once again the Council simply refusing to say how much the bailiffs took, rather than they don't know.

If the council asked bailiffs to collect X amount in any year and they paid Y, to the Council clearly with the details of the debtors of course the Council would know the difference (ie the bailiffs cut).

As for the professionalism of these bailiffs I have spoken with people subject to their treatment and they use the same 'cons' as other bailiff's as reported in the papers and on television.

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Drivetime says...
9:30am Tue 25 Sep 12

I have had personal experience of the bullying tactics used by these Bailiffs for their own end. Due to a prol;onged period of time off work after a bad accident I missed a direct debit payment for the council tax. When this happens you forfit your right to pay monthly and have to pay the full balance. I got as letter off the council saying unless I paid the full £800 I owed bailiffs would be instructed. At this point I was back to work so rang them to offer a full payment, this was less than a week after the letter was sent. I was told they could no longer accept payment because it was in the hands of the bailiffs, Chandlers. I called them imidiately after the council gave me their number. When I called them they told me they had not recieved the case from the council but would write to me when it came so I could pay them without the need for a visit. 2 Days later a bailiff from chandlers arrived on my door step demanding the £800 plus a fee of £220. Had they taken a payment over the telephone as I had offered 2 days before they would not have been entitled to that £220. It is not in their interest to accept a payment over the telephone. If they do not attend your house they do not get there fee off poor joe public. I offered to pay the £800 as I had previously offered buut refused the £220 fee his response was simply don't pay it and I will take your car. These companies make a living out of lying because of course they denied this.

I spoke to several councillors about this and other cases and they were given the opitunity to take this to scrutiny committee but Labour Councillor Kevin Small saw nothing wrong with this practise despite the councils own policy stating that instruction of bailiffs is a very last resort after all other options are explored. That would include an attachment of earnings. None of this was explored in my case and I have spoken to many others who said the same. The council are simply lazy if you do't pay lets give it to a bailiff is the attitude. The case drove tme to want to move out of Swindon and I am still looking at this.

Cllr Bluh claims “In eight years doing the job there have been lots of complaints over whether people should be pursued for debts, but I don’t recall any fundamental issues arising from the way bailiffs are doing business" Maybe if he responded to my email when I wanted to talk to him about this he would have. People often say when you have debts its no good burying yopur head in the sand. Cllr Bluh clearly disagrees as thats all he seems to do.

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Hmmmf says...
10:36am Tue 25 Sep 12

The headline for this piece could as easily have been "Debt-dodgers owe Council half a million," but no, it's much more fun to spin it. This Josh Layton wouldn't be a mate of Adam Kula's, by any chance?

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FlowerPower says...
10:37am Tue 25 Sep 12

Like Drivetime I fell into debt through ill health. The council wrote to me, unfortunately it was whilst I was in hospital having 2 heart surgeries, 10 days apart. I got home and read the letter. Despite still recovering from surgery I went down to the council. I explained and made them a substantial offer of repayment plan. I was told they'd already passed the case to chandlers but could take it back and they'd consider my case. Three days later chandlers arrived, shouting and abusive. I had no choice but to borrow a large cash amount to make the initial payment plus a monthly amount, half of that which I'd made to the council!!! I was in no fit state to fight it through the legal channels. I've had endless problems with chandlers, including them changing payment dates, so I would pay late, then back they would come demanding yet more money. Rod Bluh, I suggest you speak to your councillors. I've spoken to them on numerous occasions regarding chandlers. I can't believe you have the gall to sit there and deny the problems. For the record I have no issue whatsoever with paying my dues. I got into debt, through no fault of my own, but I will get out of debt on my own. I will not nor have I ever asked the council to forgive my debts. I am living up to my responsibilities but the council could of made my life a whole lot easier if they'd showed a little compassion and supported me and my family whilst I was fighting for my life and undergoing major life threatening surgery. I worked 60 hours a week, raised my eldest 2 sons alone and claimed no benefits. I met and married my now husband, and life was looking good then a run of bad luck left us both out if work, with a disabled baby and then I got ill. I hate having to now claim benefits, but have no choice at the moment. I understand that there will always be those who dont want to pay and in those cases the bailiffs are the only way. But why treat those who do want to pay, who have merely fallen on hard times, but want to pay their way and retain their self respect like utter dirt?

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RichardR1 says...
10:56am Tue 25 Sep 12

The above examples do tend to be 'A' typical when it comes to both the Council and Chandlers, or is it really Capita, who are responsible for much of the Council's incompetence, and uncaring attitude.

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gina948 says...
11:06am Tue 25 Sep 12

Drivetime/Flowerpowe
r - awful stories and you're cases arent isolated. I too had the same thing happen to me. The baliffs turned up demanding money. I stuck to my guns and fought against them, even told them to get off my private property! They did...eventually. The council are absolutely useless here. I've lived in Oxfordshire, Lincolnshire and South Yorkshire and none of the councils are as bad as Swindon. The stress and carnage they cause is horrendous. However, that said, I was a temp for Capita a few years back and when you see that the majority of employees have no initiative at all it comes as no surprise that the public suffer!

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itsamess3 says...
11:15am Tue 25 Sep 12

£100000 from £170000 just from parking fines is a nice little earner.

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Drivetime says...
11:16am Tue 25 Sep 12

I understand the need for bailiffs to collect money that is owed to the council but it should be in line with their own policy which is set on on their website feel free to view it

http://www.swindon.g
ov.uk/cd/foi/cd-foi-
publicationscheme/Do
cuments/sbc-revenues
charter100825.pdf

It talks about bailiffs being a last resort. Is this policy being followed? I know for a fact it is not. The council are not the organisation, the council are the elected 57 members they employ officers to cartry through their policies which they are clearly not doing. Councillors of all sides need to get a grip on this issue and fast.

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RichardR1 says...
11:19am Tue 25 Sep 12

Drivetime, excellent point.

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Bloke58 says...
12:00pm Tue 25 Sep 12

Having had experience of one of the Council's bailiffs, I can say that I'd rather deal with the bailiffs than SBC's ignorant & unhelpful council tax staff.

SBC staff were unhelpful, accused me of being abusive when I made observations about the way they do business and caused me considerable stress.

As for the claim that bailiffs are the last resort... RUBBISH! As soon as they pass your details over, you have no way to negotiate with the council "It's in the hands of the bailiffs" they'll tell you. It's also interesting to note that the "last resort" arrives in July for council tax. This is when SBC send all the people who are behind to court. That's 4 months to last resort!

The bailiff I dealt with was friendly, courteous & helpful. I paid the debt off at a much lower rate than the council wanted, had no problems making the payments & the matter is now closed. It's worth pointing out that I sent Direct Debit forms to the council, but didn't realise they hadn't been actioned, which is how I got in the mess in the first place. SBC denied they had received the paperwork, of course!

I now pay monthly using the online credit//debit system, which works well for me.

My overall impression of SBC council tax staff is, they don't care about their "customers". They don't want to take responsibility for anything & they are really happy for the matter to be passed to bailiffs asap, to reduce their own workload.

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Russell Holland says...
12:14pm Tue 25 Sep 12

I am sorry to hear that some people have had bad experiences with the Council over debt collection issues.

The reality is that it is essential to collect Council tax and the nature of a large scale operation is that sometimes mistakes are made which cause problems for people.

If anyone is in difficulties with their tax payments or experience problems with a bailiff, I would strongly encourage you to contact your local Councillor and ask them to intervene on your behalf.

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RichardR1 says...
12:38pm Tue 25 Sep 12

Russell if the staff operating the system are doing their jobs properly and abiding by the rules laid down, then contacting a Councillor shouldn't be necessary.

I have heard it can take up to ten days for monies paid to actually be credited to someone's account, which leads to the whole 'debt' system to kick in.

As has been shown on here once that happens there is no stopping it.

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Drivetime says...
1:15pm Tue 25 Sep 12

Russell Holland wrote:
I am sorry to hear that some people have had bad experiences with the Council over debt collection issues. The reality is that it is essential to collect Council tax and the nature of a large scale operation is that sometimes mistakes are made which cause problems for people. If anyone is in difficulties with their tax payments or experience problems with a bailiff, I would strongly encourage you to contact your local Councillor and ask them to intervene on your behalf.
I would like to point out I have experience problems with them twice. I did have the money to pay and I wanted to pay, the costs incured however were totally unacceptable. After my first brush with chandlers I emailled every councillor on SBC and onluy 1 or 2 had the decency to return my email and nothing was done and it was not taken seriously. This is a serious problem and as councillors you need to get on top of this as it is a very bad advert for the borough which on the whole is a decent place to live. I have heard of cases where people are fearful of opening their doors after unneccessary visits from Chandlers. I have to say I have not heartd any negative comments regarding any of the other companies the council use. Maybe you need to look at your arrangement with Chandlers and re assess it. I have today contacted Cllr Kevin Small and ask that this is looked at by Scrutiny

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house on the hill says...
2:00pm Tue 25 Sep 12

Bloke58 says...
12:00pm Tue 25 Sep 12

Having had experience of one of the Council's bailiffs, I can say that I'd rather deal with the bailiffs than SBC's ignorant & unhelpful council tax staff.
My overall impression of SBC council tax staff is, they don't care about their "customers". They don't want to take responsibility for anything & they are really happy for the matter to be passed to bailiffs asap, to reduce their own workload.”""""

The Council Tax department is run by Capita who are a PLC run purely for profit. they have no interest in the people of Swindon and their priority is making money at all costs. The call Centre is in Coventry and the processing is all done in Dorset somewhere I think so there is nothing joined up about the process anyway, so no wonder things go astray. Maybe if the Council handn't been so inept and needed to bring in outside partners it would at least be all in one place.

There is a big "dont care" attitude in the council in general as they know we have nowhere else to go for our services and are required by law to pay them even if they give a rubbish service, so I guess its no surprise they dont care and have become so complacent and useless. A non competative enviroment seems to breed that sort of worker sadly.

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Ringer says...
3:14pm Tue 25 Sep 12

As ever, the situation is made worse because people are very aware that the council and their bailiffs always seem to immediately hammer 'easy' targets and like to add additional costs to accounts that they know have been (and will continue) to pay their way.

There are other properties and residents who pay nothing and who simply threaten violence against bailiffs and, in any case, have no money to pay additional charges or fines. These people are generally left alone.

All of this increases the perception that the council do not play fair.

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Russell Holland says...
7:49pm Tue 25 Sep 12

Richard - it is inevitable that sometimes mistakes are made - when this happens a Councillor can help by drawing specific attention to a particular case.

Drivetime - you can ask a question at public question time at Council meetings and also before Cabinet meetings there is an open forum which allows for a more informal discussion as well.

As I say I am sorry that some people have had some bad experiences.

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Bobfm , says...
8:25pm Tue 25 Sep 12

Hmmmf wrote:
The headline for this piece could as easily have been "Debt-dodgers owe Council half a million," but no, it's much more fun to spin it. This Josh Layton wouldn't be a mate of Adam Kula's, by any chance?
Hello Mr Blackwell aka 20Eyes aka I 2 Could have OCD. Another of your many pseudonyms I see?

Your obsession with Adam Kula is as baffling as it is creepy.

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RichardR1 says...
8:52am Wed 26 Sep 12

I see 1 2 saying what he likes without sanction again, as does Bobfm.

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FlowerPower says...
8:58am Wed 26 Sep 12

RichardR1 wrote:
I see 1 2 saying what he likes without sanction again, as does Bobfm.
I thought you were 1 2 ?

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FlowerPower says...
9:00am Wed 26 Sep 12

Very odd. On my page the post above mine says it's from 1 2 yet in quote it's Richard? Sorry if I've inadvertently offended but that's how it showed up. Very odd please sort the glitch adver

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RichardR1 says...
9:17am Wed 26 Sep 12

FlowerPower, lots of strange goings on, on this site. I have spoken with a number of IT professionals who have given me an interesting take on it.

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