IT'S Friday and I've got the hump. Why? Oh, it’s the inane and stupid comments we get on the website from folk who are all too happy to take a pop at the Adver, the very Adver website they are reading.
It's not as if their comments are well thought out, constructive or illuminating.
I just wonder why sometimes these folk log onto the website and why they post. Is it simply to get a reaction?
Let me give you an example from one thread, this from a story about the Swindon Advertiser enjoying success at a newspaper awards ceremony.
The correspondent Donkey was begrudging in his praise for the Adver’s editorial and newspaper sales team who swept the floor at the Newsquest Awards on Wednesday evening in London.
Newsquest is the Adver’s parent company and this evening at the Sheraton Skyline Hotel was all about celebrating excellence from the company’s more than 300 newspaper titles.
“Congratulations all round, but one hopes that, as in the entertainment industry, it was not just because it was the Adver’s turn?” wrote Donkey. “Only joking! Incidentally, the newspaper is having rather a lot of dull news content these days ... why? There is news about!”
When quizzed about this comment by another poster, Donkey replied: “If all the advertisements, magazine type articles, STFC news from the man camped at the County Ground, Births, Deaths and Marriages, television listings and topics, the full page advertisement, acceptance rules as occurred on a recent no news day, excrutiatingly poor columnist's pieces and horoscopes ... well, there ain’t a lot of news is there?
“They make front page banner headlines out of the most trivial piece on many occasions. Thank goodness the Letters Page covers right across the sheet and the other half / full page entitled Your Shout. Let’s face it, the town has grown yet the news features have shrunk!
“Incidentally, it’s not up to me to come up with articles of interest ... that’s why we hand over our 35 pences six days a week ... it’s the journos’ jobs, ain’t it? I’m not complaining but, like many others I only buy the Adver out of traditional habit!”
I am surprised Donkey parts with his 35 pence each day if the paper really doesn’t amount to much. Does he use the Adver as a cure for insomnia?
What is news is an interesting debate. What makes the front page as opposed to page 17 is another question. I’m sure if I pulled out 100 people to edit the Adver there would be numerous different approaches. In the end as editor, I edit the paper to present something every day which excites and interests the readers and, by and large, I believe I get it right if sales is a Litmus test.
Lay out six Advers from any week, and no one paper is the same in feel and content.
As I have mentioned before, the Adver is a mixture of light and hard news, a combination of being informative, challenging and entertaining.
We may not please Donkey and the other acolytes who often post this question on the Adver website: news, what news? The one comforting aspect is that they are in the minority as our editorial policy is gaining strong readership.
One of the awards picked up from Wednesday’s night’s ceremony was for the newspaper showing the biggest growth in readership year on year. The Swindon Advertiser was one of only two newspapers in the UK which managed that during 2007. And in 2008, we continue to lead the way.
So clearly we must be doing something right, the readers must be enjoying what they are reading because they keep coming back to us. We simply didn’t get the award because it was our turn.
On the evening, Andy Cryer was named sports writer of the year which was an outstanding achievement for a guy who has set the agenda as far as coverage of Swindon Town Football Club is concerned.
When the story of Andy’s success was posted on the Adver website on LoftConversions took a nasty pop at him, which was, quite frankly, below the belt. Andy is big enough to take that rubbish because he knows he is respected by the club and the fans as THE authority when it comes to Swindon Town.
I’ll take criticism any time – but let’s make it justified criticism, and if you don’t like the Adver, then no-one is forcing you to buy it.
These two postings were in the minority.
Donkey and Loft Conversions, post any time, but let's think what we are posting, let's be constructive. Just because something is not your cup of tea, don't assert that it must be rubbish for everyone. Your postings come over as very sad and bitter.
Just accept everyone has different tastes and while you might not like some of the trivial stories in the paper, others do like them. They want to be entertained.
To the majority, however, thanks for the e-mails I have received and the positive comments on the website about the Adver.
I think 'donkey' is an **** and 'loft conversion' needs to find something on his top floor 'cos it's empty at the moment. The paper is great, proved by the increased number of sales. I wish people would stop criticising everything in Swindon. If you don't like it, move away. Enough said.
I think 'donkey' is an **** and 'loft conversion' needs to find something on his top floor 'cos it's empty at the moment. The paper is great, proved by the increased number of sales. I wish people would stop criticising everything in Swindon. If you don't like it, move away. Enough said.
Posted by: Daniel Barron, a.k.a LordBelacqua at 12:57pm on Tue 8 Apr 08
Hear Hear!
I don't think I congratulated you all on your sweep at the awards (answering Big Macs question, which confused me somewhat - is there any particular significance to having Gannett as your ultimate owner?) - so congratulations!
In light of Donkey-bashing once again (which I regularly seem to be accused of these days in what must be the greatest feat of Tory brainwashing I've known, as not even I knew that I pro-Tory until Donkey started spouting it...I always thought I was anti-Labour, but apparently they're one and the same!), I shouldn't pay that much attention to a man that openly admits he votes Labour because his father and grandfather did so - it's not really an advert for a well-informed opinion!
As for Loft Conversion...what an angry person. When you had your interviews for Andy's job, did you let anyone down harshly? Ha ha! Looked like a bit of a grudge to me. I'm not a sports reader, so whether that's even close to justified I've no idea, as you'll usually find me at the front of the paper.
Now, having not replied to one of your blog posts for some time...current affairs question!
Now, the company I work for owns Aberthaw power station, which was recently the site of a protest by Bristol Rising Tide. The claims made involved the plans to switch from coal to wood fuel - a project I'm involved in to an extent - and how slowly it was progressing.
In their protest, they decided to chain themselves to heavy objects and block the roads in order to "stop the normal operation of the power station". In a stunning twist of irony (and it made my day), the day shift workers went in by a different entrance, and what was stopped was valuable [bold]emmissions-reducing equipment[/bold] (can't you just smell it? The delectable scent of irony...).
So, on to my question. Climate activists - giving us a valuable warning, or a nuisance wanting to take us back to stone huts?
(We all know what my view of Greenpeace et al is, nothing short of direct detestation of these people, their antics at power stations putting plenty of people's lives in danger for no good reason whilst doing nothing to stop operations of the other power plants that we don't have turned on...)
Hear Hear!
I don't think I congratulated you all on your sweep at the awards (answering Big Macs question, which confused me somewhat - is there any particular significance to having Gannett as your ultimate owner?) - so congratulations!
In light of Donkey-bashing once again (which I regularly seem to be accused of these days in what must be the greatest feat of Tory brainwashing I've known, as not even I knew that I pro-Tory until Donkey started spouting it...I always thought I was anti-Labour, but apparently they're one and the same!), I shouldn't pay that much attention to a man that openly admits he votes Labour because his father and grandfather did so - it's not really an advert for a well-informed opinion!
As for Loft Conversion...what an angry person. When you had your interviews for Andy's job, did you let anyone down harshly? Ha ha! Looked like a bit of a grudge to me. I'm not a sports reader, so whether that's even close to justified I've no idea, as you'll usually find me at the front of the paper.
Now, having not replied to one of your blog posts for some time...current affairs question!
Now, the company I work for owns Aberthaw power station, which was recently the site of a protest by Bristol Rising Tide. The claims made involved the plans to switch from coal to wood fuel - a project I'm involved in to an extent - and how slowly it was progressing.
In their protest, they decided to chain themselves to heavy objects and block the roads in order to "stop the normal operation of the power station". In a stunning twist of irony (and it made my day), the day shift workers went in by a different entrance, and what was stopped was valuable emmissions-reducing equipment (can't you just smell it? The delectable scent of irony...).
So, on to my question. Climate activists - giving us a valuable warning, or a nuisance wanting to take us back to stone huts?
(We all know what my view of Greenpeace et al is, nothing short of direct detestation of these people, their antics at power stations putting plenty of people's lives in danger for no good reason whilst doing nothing to stop operations of the other power plants that we don't have turned on...)
Posted by: Hi Ho Silver! at 12:24am on Wed 9 Apr 08
Congratulations on your awards. However, don't you think you are being rather hyper-sensitive to single out individual posters for being overly negative? They may not even read this blog, so wouldn't the comments have been more appropriately posted at the time against the article in question, so that they might reply?
As you said:
[quote]These two postings were in the minority. [/quote] so why the big deal?
Ever since the days of usenet it has been known that if you provide a forum where people can "anonymously" post their views on a subject then all extremes of opinion will be be seen - people will relish this opportunity to vent their spleen.
So really, what did you expect when you allowed people to comment on Adver stories?
Congratulations on your awards. However, don't you think you are being rather hyper-sensitive to single out individual posters for being overly negative? They may not even read this blog, so wouldn't the comments have been more appropriately posted at the time against the article in question, so that they might reply?
As you said:
These two postings were in the minority.
so why the big deal?
Ever since the days of usenet it has been known that if you provide a forum where people can "anonymously" post their views on a subject then all extremes of opinion will be be seen - people will relish this opportunity to vent their spleen.
So really, what did you expect when you allowed people to comment on Adver stories?
Posted by: Thelma & Louise at 12:18pm on Wed 9 Apr 08
Congrats on the awards.
Now Thelma and I have been thinking about the 'Donkey' situation.
Well its like this, no two people are the same, and we guess that Donkey likes to make his/her mark on the world, and has chosen to do it via comments on your website.
Infact Donkey is probably an ASSet in one way, because he/she obviously starts the spark that lights the fire on some occassions, leading more people to comment. Also, if you study what people actually write and the manner they write it, it gives you an insight as to the real person behind the blog.
Thelms and I are into the study of human behaviour and the mind lol.
Seriously, I would be glad to have Donkey commenting as it then fuels other people into commenting and before you know it, it snowballs and sometimes there can be a real old debate taking place.
Think about it !
Thelma & Louise
Congrats on the awards.
Now Thelma and I have been thinking about the 'Donkey' situation.
Well its like this, no two people are the same, and we guess that Donkey likes to make his/her mark on the world, and has chosen to do it via comments on your website.
Infact Donkey is probably an ASSet in one way, because he/she obviously starts the spark that lights the fire on some occassions, leading more people to comment. Also, if you study what people actually write and the manner they write it, it gives you an insight as to the real person behind the blog.
Thelms and I are into the study of human behaviour and the mind lol.
Seriously, I would be glad to have Donkey commenting as it then fuels other people into commenting and before you know it, it snowballs and sometimes there can be a real old debate taking place.
Think about it !
Posted by: Hi Ho Silver! at 11:59pm on Sat 12 Apr 08
Oh by the way "LordBelacqua" thanks for YET AGAIN informing everyone that you work in the power generation industry! Why do you think this is of interest to us all?? Do you think that it gives any comments you make more gravitas??
Not that your previous stories of soldering thermcouples (which you chose to broadcast to everyone) weren't interesting!
Oh by the way "LordBelacqua" thanks for YET AGAIN informing everyone that you work in the power generation industry! Why do you think this is of interest to us all?? Do you think that it gives any comments you make more gravitas??
Not that your previous stories of soldering thermcouples (which you chose to broadcast to everyone) weren't interesting!
[quote][bold]Hi Ho Silver![/bold] wrote:
Oh by the way "LordBelacqua" thanks for YET AGAIN informing everyone that you work in the power generation industry! Why do you think this is of interest to us all?? Do you think that it gives any comments you make more gravitas?? Not that your previous stories of soldering thermcouples (which you chose to broadcast to everyone) weren't interesting![/quote] Personally, I care precisely [italic]ziltch[/italic] whether you care. In this case, it adds depth to the question. If you're incapable of seeing that, then, quite frankly, I've no time for you.
Hi Ho Silver! wrote:
Oh by the way "LordBelacqua" thanks for YET AGAIN informing everyone that you work in the power generation industry! Why do you think this is of interest to us all?? Do you think that it gives any comments you make more gravitas?? Not that your previous stories of soldering thermcouples (which you chose to broadcast to everyone) weren't interesting!
Personally, I care precisely ziltch whether you care. In this case, it adds depth to the question. If you're incapable of seeing that, then, quite frankly, I've no time for you.
Posted by: Paul F Morse at 6:22pm on Mon 14 Apr 08
Well, I must say that until the young Lord B indicated there was something worth reading on the Editor's Blogsite, it never occurred to me that there would be anything of interest to me, as he usually just remarks on the stories his staff have indicated in that edition.
The Editor's comments, with myself having struck a nerve I guess, are fair game and I appreciate the varied opinion as to whether the old Donkey is an asset or a beast! I don't actually consider myself to be an [italic]acolyte[/italic] , all the same. One wonders, if I used my own name, would he then have thought fit to blacken my character in his blog?
Having given the whole thing some thought, I am glad that Mr King has written his objection to my posting, which at the time I considered to be a reasonable question about one's employers giving out the annual awards to a group of employees, and not that it was decrying any effort on the staff's part, but maybe I considered the other 299 publications run by Newsquest being less worthy than the Adver?
I find the suggestion that my postings spur others to react quite a compliment, as I do take the bit between my teeth when the actual Adver story appears to be chasing adverse comments in return. I am sure the Editor knows fully well that life is not all 'sweetness and light' when it comes to inviting all comers to make their feelings known?
Somehow, along the passage of time, and in the experience of my own memory of the Evening Advertiser, as was, I feel that I have probably far more comparative, in length of years reading the local newspaper to recall than the current Adver squad.
With an expanding town, and being the ONLY local(ish) newspaper available, would it not be reasonable to assume that sales should rise from the time when there were only, say, 70,000 people living in the catchment area?
Anyway, I have my opinions and the man in the hot seat has his, and so be it!
I will just add that having bought the Advertiser for over 40 years and having lived in my home town all my life, I do not need an outsider to tell me to leave the town, neither should I be told that I should not buy the paper. At least I do contribute hard cash to Newsquest which is more than can be said of many Internet readers of the paper.
Incidentally, is it my political beliefs which drew the wrath of Mr King, or was he really offended by home truths ... the mind boggles??
Well, I must say that until the young Lord B indicated there was something worth reading on the Editor's Blogsite, it never occurred to me that there would be anything of interest to me, as he usually just remarks on the stories his staff have indicated in that edition.
The Editor's comments, with myself having struck a nerve I guess, are fair game and I appreciate the varied opinion as to whether the old Donkey is an asset or a beast! I don't actually consider myself to be an acolyte , all the same. One wonders, if I used my own name, would he then have thought fit to blacken my character in his blog?
Having given the whole thing some thought, I am glad that Mr King has written his objection to my posting, which at the time I considered to be a reasonable question about one's employers giving out the annual awards to a group of employees, and not that it was decrying any effort on the staff's part, but maybe I considered the other 299 publications run by Newsquest being less worthy than the Adver?
I find the suggestion that my postings spur others to react quite a compliment, as I do take the bit between my teeth when the actual Adver story appears to be chasing adverse comments in return. I am sure the Editor knows fully well that life is not all 'sweetness and light' when it comes to inviting all comers to make their feelings known?
Somehow, along the passage of time, and in the experience of my own memory of the Evening Advertiser, as was, I feel that I have probably far more comparative, in length of years reading the local newspaper to recall than the current Adver squad.
With an expanding town, and being the ONLY local(ish) newspaper available, would it not be reasonable to assume that sales should rise from the time when there were only, say, 70,000 people living in the catchment area?
Anyway, I have my opinions and the man in the hot seat has his, and so be it!
I will just add that having bought the Advertiser for over 40 years and having lived in my home town all my life, I do not need an outsider to tell me to leave the town, neither should I be told that I should not buy the paper. At least I do contribute hard cash to Newsquest which is more than can be said of many Internet readers of the paper.
Incidentally, is it my political beliefs which drew the wrath of Mr King, or was he really offended by home truths ... the mind boggles??
Posted by: LordBelacqua at 2:12pm on Thu 17 Apr 08
[quote]Incidentally, is it my political beliefs which drew the wrath of Mr King, or was he really offended by home truths ... the mind boggles??[/quote]
Oh good Lord Mr Morse, please, do not head down this route.
You are, of course, entirely welcome to your views, whatever they may be. If you were to believe that the Adver is run by the Illuminati, that is entirely your opinion.
However, I really must question this incessant belief that the Adver is pro-Tory? Where is your proof? Surely you must at least have some statistical evidence? If we had a Labour-run council, then it would be a great deal fuller of mentions of Labour, correct? So one would then be able to claim it had a pro-Labour bias.
Mentions alone are not an indicator of any bias - our two local MP's also feature regularly in the paper's pages, often being praised by some climate action group or another. The tone of the article is usually positive for our MP's, whereas it appears to vary for our councillor's. The Barrie Thompson saga should not be relied upon, either - pro-Tory, as I am so often explaining, is not the same as anti-Labour.
As for the letters pages, I should think that the letters editor chooses the letters to publish in proportion to what he receives - if there are far more anti-Labour letters than anti-Conservative letters, then it would not be fair on or representative of the population to print equal numbers of both, wouldn't you agree? The letters page, after all, is an outlet for the population of Swindon rather than the Adver team.
As for the "Your Shout" page - I don't generally read it, so I can't really comment, much like regarding the sports. However, I'm sure the two lovely ladies manning the web page do so fairly - although, as Mr King has the final say, I can only imagine that he feels they must do!
However, this is just one 18-year-old's opinion. It may be right, it may be wrong. No doubt I'll be lambasted by HHS for daring to reveal my personal details. Ah well.
Daniel
Incidentally, is it my political beliefs which drew the wrath of Mr King, or was he really offended by home truths ... the mind boggles??
Oh good Lord Mr Morse, please, do not head down this route.
You are, of course, entirely welcome to your views, whatever they may be. If you were to believe that the Adver is run by the Illuminati, that is entirely your opinion.
However, I really must question this incessant belief that the Adver is pro-Tory? Where is your proof? Surely you must at least have some statistical evidence? If we had a Labour-run council, then it would be a great deal fuller of mentions of Labour, correct? So one would then be able to claim it had a pro-Labour bias.
Mentions alone are not an indicator of any bias - our two local MP's also feature regularly in the paper's pages, often being praised by some climate action group or another. The tone of the article is usually positive for our MP's, whereas it appears to vary for our councillor's. The Barrie Thompson saga should not be relied upon, either - pro-Tory, as I am so often explaining, is not the same as anti-Labour.
As for the letters pages, I should think that the letters editor chooses the letters to publish in proportion to what he receives - if there are far more anti-Labour letters than anti-Conservative letters, then it would not be fair on or representative of the population to print equal numbers of both, wouldn't you agree? The letters page, after all, is an outlet for the population of Swindon rather than the Adver team.
As for the "Your Shout" page - I don't generally read it, so I can't really comment, much like regarding the sports. However, I'm sure the two lovely ladies manning the web page do so fairly - although, as Mr King has the final say, I can only imagine that he feels they must do!
However, this is just one 18-year-old's opinion. It may be right, it may be wrong. No doubt I'll be lambasted by HHS for daring to reveal my personal details. Ah well.
Posted by: Paul F Morse at 1:32pm on Fri 18 Apr 08
I'm afraid to say that through experience gained, my opinion will not change over the pro / anti line towards individual political parties from this newspaper. From your subservience towards the editor, maybe you are looking for future employment in the industry, who knows.
I will say that I did not stoop to low personal insults and name calling by this blog's writer, his opinion is his, and mine is mine.
Talking media, though ... Heaton-Jones worked in the 'totally unbiased' BBC Radio, and he was well known for buttering up the Tories and giving every other party a hard time ... and now we know why! This paper could not do more for him, in his fledgling political career and he is a clear example of the leaning to which I have referred.
I'm afraid to say that through experience gained, my opinion will not change over the pro / anti line towards individual political parties from this newspaper. From your subservience towards the editor, maybe you are looking for future employment in the industry, who knows.
I will say that I did not stoop to low personal insults and name calling by this blog's writer, his opinion is his, and mine is mine.
Talking media, though ... Heaton-Jones worked in the 'totally unbiased' BBC Radio, and he was well known for buttering up the Tories and giving every other party a hard time ... and now we know why! This paper could not do more for him, in his fledgling political career and he is a clear example of the leaning to which I have referred.
Posted by: LordBelacqua at 1:59pm on Fri 18 Apr 08
[quote]I'm afraid to say that through experience gained, my opinion will not change over the pro / anti line towards individual political parties from this newspaper.[/quote]
Considering that you've not attempted to counter any of my points, I'm not surprised.
[quote]From your subservience towards the editor, maybe you are looking for future employment in the industry, who knows.[/quote]
Are you kidding? Subservience? I've no interest in journalism, and, save one or two letters sent in, I've only ever read the paper. I really do fail to see how calling you out on your misplaced assumptions and telling it how it is makes it subservience.
Even your own local MP's have said the paper is unbiased, and they've a lot more to lose if it were than you - why exactly is it that you know better than them?
I'm afraid to say that through experience gained, my opinion will not change over the pro / anti line towards individual political parties from this newspaper.
Considering that you've not attempted to counter any of my points, I'm not surprised.
From your subservience towards the editor, maybe you are looking for future employment in the industry, who knows.
Are you kidding? Subservience? I've no interest in journalism, and, save one or two letters sent in, I've only ever read the paper. I really do fail to see how calling you out on your misplaced assumptions and telling it how it is makes it subservience.
Even your own local MP's have said the paper is unbiased, and they've a lot more to lose if it were than you - why exactly is it that you know better than them?
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Wow ... this is serious stuff!
Like many others, I would imagine, I have considered this and the content of a post now becomes a different shooting match on the Comments section.
It would be very difficult for some posters to keep within limits like that, myself included, at times. Insults are the ongoing trend. I certainly would never consider taking someone to court for libel on here, it's pretty much a bit of a laugh, even when it is hurtful on occasions.
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I would like to read any other posters comments on this statement of the rules because I feel it should be open to debate over whether we can risk the wrath of the legal system by putting our four penn'rth into the melting pot.
Even the newspaper's editor could have actually gone against the rules in his defamation of my character on his blogsite? There is a thin line.
The Web Team are right in bringing this information to our notice, though it does spoil the tactics of the majority I'm sure.
Web Team wrote:
We would like to remind everyone that they are legally responsible for what they post on this site. You can be taken to court if you libel someone. A number of comments have been removed because they were deemed potentially libellous. If you aren’t sure what libel means, put simply, it means anything which is damaging to the character of an individual or a company or organisation. Even if you can prove your claims, you could well end up in court doing so – at huge expense and with a strong possibility of losing and facing an unlimited fine. Basically, stick to verified fact and never make unfounded allegations. Do not accuse people of crimes or other wrongdoing. Anyone who continually libels others will be banned from our website. Sorry to be so officious, but it’s important people leaving comments understand the rules. Thank you.
Wow ... this is serious stuff!
Like many others, I would imagine, I have considered this and the content of a post now becomes a different shooting match on the Comments section.
It would be very difficult for some posters to keep within limits like that, myself included, at times. Insults are the ongoing trend. I certainly would never consider taking someone to court for libel on here, it's pretty much a bit of a laugh, even when it is hurtful on occasions.
The anonimity, presumably, has gone out of the window with a briefing like that?
Are we to assume that these Comments sections are being closed down, because on the face of it, the banter which goes on, especially politically charged comments, are indeed potentially libellous at times.
I would like to read any other posters comments on this statement of the rules because I feel it should be open to debate over whether we can risk the wrath of the legal system by putting our four penn'rth into the melting pot.
Even the newspaper's editor could have actually gone against the rules in his defamation of my character on his blogsite? There is a thin line.
The Web Team are right in bringing this information to our notice, though it does spoil the tactics of the majority I'm sure.
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