Swindon AdvertiserInjuries have cost us 10 points says boss (From Swindon Advertiser)

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Injuries have cost us 10 points says Cooper

Swindon Advertiser: Grant Hall is one of the many players on Town’s injury list Grant Hall is one of the many players on Town’s injury list

SWINDON Town may well have been as much as 10 points better off had it not been for a series of injuries this season, according to manager Mark Cooper.

Speaking ahead of his side’s trip to Leyton Orient in League One tomorrow, Cooper stressed that he was not looking to use Town’s extended casualty list as an excuse, but when comparing his selection problems to the relative tranquility experienced by O’s boss Russell Slade in that capacity this term, the 45-year-old suggested that stability or lackthereof can significantly influence the direction of a team’s campaign.

At some point or another this term, Cooper has been without Jay McEveley, Nathan Thompson, Grant Hall, Ryan Mason, Alex Pritchard, Dany N’Guessan, Nile Ranger, Yaser Kasim, Louis Thompson and Ryan Harley through injury - and the Town manager thinks that has taken its toll on his squad, who currently lie eighth in the table having accrued 45 points from 31 matches.

“They’ve probably got 15 or 16 players that they rely on and after that they’ve got some younger players. Speaking to Russell, what they’ve done is gamble on that strength of the nucleus and hope that they stay fit,” Cooper said of Orient.

“So far, so good for them - they’ve managed to stay fit whereas we’ve lost some of our key players along the way. That’s football, it happens. Orient have done well and they’ve managed to keep theirs fit, we haven’t and that’s probably a reason why we’re probably seven, eight, nine, 10 points short of where we could be.

“I’d never look for an excuse and I wouldn’t use that as an excuse. All I’ve said is that Leyton Orient have kept their players fit and ours haven’t. Whether that’s down to us coming together late as a group I don’t know. There are varying reasons but that’s the way it is. It’s not an excuse.”

Comments (33)

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5:35am Fri 21 Feb 14

smirg kcab says...

Nothing to do with Injuries every club gets them, it's more down to the very very poor discipline and very very poor tactics over the season.
Thought you blamed the ref every game anyway?
Just a thought
Home banker, season over
Nothing to do with Injuries every club gets them, it's more down to the very very poor discipline and very very poor tactics over the season. Thought you blamed the ref every game anyway? Just a thought Home banker, season over smirg kcab
  • Score: -9

6:37am Fri 21 Feb 14

dazzastfc says...

It amazes me how its NEVER HIS THOUGHT
It amazes me how its NEVER HIS THOUGHT dazzastfc
  • Score: -9

7:13am Fri 21 Feb 14

Since 1950 says...

smirg kcab wrote:
Nothing to do with Injuries every club gets them, it's more down to the very very poor discipline and very very poor tactics over the season.
Thought you blamed the ref every game anyway?
Just a thought
Home banker, season over
Exactly right grim. Just what I thought. Lack of discipline and some strange team selection and tactics away from home most of the time.
However, we are in a better position than I thought we'd be at the start of the season. It's just frustrating that success has just been in touching distance this season but not quite grasped it.
COYR!
[quote][p][bold]smirg kcab[/bold] wrote: Nothing to do with Injuries every club gets them, it's more down to the very very poor discipline and very very poor tactics over the season. Thought you blamed the ref every game anyway? Just a thought Home banker, season over[/p][/quote]Exactly right grim. Just what I thought. Lack of discipline and some strange team selection and tactics away from home most of the time. However, we are in a better position than I thought we'd be at the start of the season. It's just frustrating that success has just been in touching distance this season but not quite grasped it. COYR! Since 1950
  • Score: -4

7:29am Fri 21 Feb 14

ctown_red says...

Cooper has done a great job since taking over, he has surpassed in my expectations. Start of season i for one was expecting relegation with this squad, but ive been pleasantly suprised. Cooper, Williams and Power's eye for bargain is good to see, we play good attractive football, weve seen many times over the season Coops willingness to change it up, with numerous formations this doesnt strike me as someone who lacks knowledge in his tactics. He switches formation/tactics to suit what players he has at his disposal.

Our ill discipline is my major down point, how weve had 3 players reach 10 yellow cards already and its only feb is beyond me, that is something Cooper needs to sort out.

But overall i am excited for the future of this football club with Cooper at the helm, these young players will continue to grow, if we dont go up this season im sure as day we will next. They will only get better. But this all depends on if we can keep our starlets
Cooper has done a great job since taking over, he has surpassed in my expectations. Start of season i for one was expecting relegation with this squad, but ive been pleasantly suprised. Cooper, Williams and Power's eye for bargain is good to see, we play good attractive football, weve seen many times over the season Coops willingness to change it up, with numerous formations this doesnt strike me as someone who lacks knowledge in his tactics. He switches formation/tactics to suit what players he has at his disposal. Our ill discipline is my major down point, how weve had 3 players reach 10 yellow cards already and its only feb is beyond me, that is something Cooper needs to sort out. But overall i am excited for the future of this football club with Cooper at the helm, these young players will continue to grow, if we dont go up this season im sure as day we will next. They will only get better. But this all depends on if we can keep our starlets ctown_red
  • Score: 14

7:39am Fri 21 Feb 14

harley red says...

Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!!
Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!! harley red
  • Score: -14

7:55am Fri 21 Feb 14

Chish and Fips says...

harley red wrote:
Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!!
Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster...

We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.
[quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!![/p][/quote]Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster... We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious. Chish and Fips
  • Score: 5

8:27am Fri 21 Feb 14

old town robin says...

“I’d never look for an excuse and I wouldn’t use that as an excuse.

Er, am I missing something here, if he thinks we've lost 10 points because of injury, then in my book that's an excuse. Whether it's a good or bad one is debatable. Maybe he should have also added to his excuse that's not an excuse how many points have been lost through poor discipline, Not sure of the exact numbers but believe we have had at least 5 reds and in excess of 40 yellows leading to suspensions for McEverley, Byrne, Kasim, Pritchard, Nat Thompson are 5 I can think of that have let the team down.

Some of the best discipline has come from Nile and Wardy
“I’d never look for an excuse and I wouldn’t use that as an excuse. Er, am I missing something here, if he thinks we've lost 10 points because of injury, then in my book that's an excuse. Whether it's a good or bad one is debatable. Maybe he should have also added to his excuse that's not an excuse how many points have been lost through poor discipline, Not sure of the exact numbers but believe we have had at least 5 reds and in excess of 40 yellows leading to suspensions for McEverley, Byrne, Kasim, Pritchard, Nat Thompson are 5 I can think of that have let the team down. Some of the best discipline has come from Nile and Wardy old town robin
  • Score: 3

8:33am Fri 21 Feb 14

harley red says...

Perhaps if the club put a bit of thought into things young Miles would be available to help out up front . Even if people don't rate him that much , he's good for half hour at the end of the game , but we don't bother with our own kids we just play other kids we get on loan and if I'm honest some don't seem any better the Miles .
Perhaps if the club put a bit of thought into things young Miles would be available to help out up front . Even if people don't rate him that much , he's good for half hour at the end of the game , but we don't bother with our own kids we just play other kids we get on loan and if I'm honest some don't seem any better the Miles . harley red
  • Score: 0

9:21am Fri 21 Feb 14

LeGod says...

Sorry Mr cooper but we may have had the odd game when Ranger didnt play and it cost us points the majority of points lost have been down to lack lustre performances and mainly against sides below us and negative home tactics and dropping stupid points against the likes of Oldham and Colchester at home.
I know we cant expect to win every home game but we have dropped some points against poor sides and away from home we have had some really poor performances with no desire and committment and the young team thing doesnt wash with me yes they will have games when they under perform but weve had too many away and that is down to motivating the players to get them up for it.
Ive got nothing against cooper as under the circumstances he has done a good job and i feel next season he will be putting together another team and i would imagine the loan players the likes of Pritchard will be playing in the championship with someone.
I think all fans although none of us like losing i dont mind losing if we go down really fighting and we come away from the game knowing we have played well and gave everything but with some of the awat performances we have put in they have been dire and it shows in our away following which is probably a third of what we normally take away which is a shame as weve always had a good following away.
Sorry Mr cooper but we may have had the odd game when Ranger didnt play and it cost us points the majority of points lost have been down to lack lustre performances and mainly against sides below us and negative home tactics and dropping stupid points against the likes of Oldham and Colchester at home. I know we cant expect to win every home game but we have dropped some points against poor sides and away from home we have had some really poor performances with no desire and committment and the young team thing doesnt wash with me yes they will have games when they under perform but weve had too many away and that is down to motivating the players to get them up for it. Ive got nothing against cooper as under the circumstances he has done a good job and i feel next season he will be putting together another team and i would imagine the loan players the likes of Pritchard will be playing in the championship with someone. I think all fans although none of us like losing i dont mind losing if we go down really fighting and we come away from the game knowing we have played well and gave everything but with some of the awat performances we have put in they have been dire and it shows in our away following which is probably a third of what we normally take away which is a shame as weve always had a good following away. LeGod
  • Score: 8

9:22am Fri 21 Feb 14

Graham8181 says...

Mark "full of endless excuses" Cooper .....

Our position outside of the playoffs and being dumped out of the Paint Cup is down to your absolutely shocking tactics Cooper. You have cost us about 20+ points. Take some blame for once. Everyone gets injuries. I remember many occasions us playing teams who have complained about endless injuries so stop saying its just us. Get over yourself, you've cost us a lot this season. It was only through one injury that finally enabled us to drop Hall (obviously hope he makes a full recovery) who has been absolutely shocking. I dread to think if he was not injured Troy would still be on the bench. I'm sure any other manager of fairly decent standard would have us in the playoffs now.
Mark "full of endless excuses" Cooper ..... Our position outside of the playoffs and being dumped out of the Paint Cup is down to your absolutely shocking tactics Cooper. You have cost us about 20+ points. Take some blame for once. Everyone gets injuries. I remember many occasions us playing teams who have complained about endless injuries so stop saying its just us. Get over yourself, you've cost us a lot this season. It was only through one injury that finally enabled us to drop Hall (obviously hope he makes a full recovery) who has been absolutely shocking. I dread to think if he was not injured Troy would still be on the bench. I'm sure any other manager of fairly decent standard would have us in the playoffs now. Graham8181
  • Score: 0

9:24am Fri 21 Feb 14

Graham8181 says...

Chish and Fips wrote:
harley red wrote:
Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!!
Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster...

We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.
i'm with Chish and Fips on this one. Summed it up perfectly. What else can he say apart from stating the obvious. No point making stuff up that isn't true
[quote][p][bold]Chish and Fips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!![/p][/quote]Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster... We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.[/p][/quote]i'm with Chish and Fips on this one. Summed it up perfectly. What else can he say apart from stating the obvious. No point making stuff up that isn't true Graham8181
  • Score: 0

9:40am Fri 21 Feb 14

harley red says...

Graham8181 wrote:
Mark "full of endless excuses" Cooper .....

Our position outside of the playoffs and being dumped out of the Paint Cup is down to your absolutely shocking tactics Cooper. You have cost us about 20+ points. Take some blame for once. Everyone gets injuries. I remember many occasions us playing teams who have complained about endless injuries so stop saying its just us. Get over yourself, you've cost us a lot this season. It was only through one injury that finally enabled us to drop Hall (obviously hope he makes a full recovery) who has been absolutely shocking. I dread to think if he was not injured Troy would still be on the bench. I'm sure any other manager of fairly decent standard would have us in the playoffs now.
What a good post I think the same and gets lots of thumbs down ans I suspect you will also , I'm going to give you a plus to start with . He he
[quote][p][bold]Graham8181[/bold] wrote: Mark "full of endless excuses" Cooper ..... Our position outside of the playoffs and being dumped out of the Paint Cup is down to your absolutely shocking tactics Cooper. You have cost us about 20+ points. Take some blame for once. Everyone gets injuries. I remember many occasions us playing teams who have complained about endless injuries so stop saying its just us. Get over yourself, you've cost us a lot this season. It was only through one injury that finally enabled us to drop Hall (obviously hope he makes a full recovery) who has been absolutely shocking. I dread to think if he was not injured Troy would still be on the bench. I'm sure any other manager of fairly decent standard would have us in the playoffs now.[/p][/quote]What a good post I think the same and gets lots of thumbs down ans I suspect you will also , I'm going to give you a plus to start with . He he harley red
  • Score: 0

9:50am Fri 21 Feb 14

hertz says...

I believe when a team is winning the players just want to be part of the squad get over the knocks and get back on that pitch , after our dismal spell a twisted sock and its in the treatment room , that or there is something fudamentally wrong with our training regime and they just are'nt fit enough . CYR
I believe when a team is winning the players just want to be part of the squad get over the knocks and get back on that pitch , after our dismal spell a twisted sock and its in the treatment room , that or there is something fudamentally wrong with our training regime and they just are'nt fit enough . CYR hertz
  • Score: 2

10:10am Fri 21 Feb 14

Bassett Hound says...

We all have our opinions of this season,but with out a shadow of doubt this season has been by a long way the worst year I can remember for injuries.

if you look at Orient they have hardly missed any players and look were they are.

I remember in our promotion year under Ossie we went 23 games with the same side,which was the main reason we reached the play offs that year.

I too worry about his tactical know and hope he is learning like his young players.But you just cannot disregard our injuries this year.
We all have our opinions of this season,but with out a shadow of doubt this season has been by a long way the worst year I can remember for injuries. if you look at Orient they have hardly missed any players and look were they are. I remember in our promotion year under Ossie we went 23 games with the same side,which was the main reason we reached the play offs that year. I too worry about his tactical know and hope he is learning like his young players.But you just cannot disregard our injuries this year. Bassett Hound
  • Score: 0

10:40am Fri 21 Feb 14

old town robin says...

A friend of mine hacked into an e-mail Mark sent to Danny Wilson the other day, it went like this.

Dear Danny, i have it on good authority, (the Swindon fans), that you are in a class of your own, for coming up with good excuses. I'm getting a bit of stick at the moment because I haven't blamed myself for poor tactics and playing players out of position, you probably know what I mean, some of these guys are never happy unless they're having a moan. Any suggestions you can give me to get them off my back would be appreciated.

Mark,

P.S Look forward to seeing you next season when you get Barnsley relegated.

Danny's reply was,

Dear Mark, don't beat yourself up over this, lord know's that bunch gave me such a hard time i had to resign after I ran out of excuses, whatever you do don't blame yourself, it's a sign of weakness.

On an average season you are going to drop points in about 30 games, so if you maintain 33% of wins that will probably satisfy the chairman biggest majority of them.

I had about 10 to 12 that usually did the trick, you've probably used most of them, but here is a few suggestions.

1. Blame The ref, never fails as most of them are hated by fans anyway.
2. The conditions, a mud heap like I had at Brammel Lane or a bit of wind or rain, nobody can argue with that as a good reason for dropping points
3. No money to bring players in. I was lucky to have a board at Swindon with plenty of dosh, but again not a bad idea to use the fair play card a few time
4. Injuries, Well nobody can argue if you can't field your best team
5. The players are very young and still learning, good for a season or two
6. The players were clueless,find a scapegoat and put it down to being out on the town too late and too often), this lead to my downfall so you'll have to show them your going to come down hard on the culprits, also lock them in the dressing room for an hour or two and don't speak to the media, always makes it look good, you're doing something about it.
7. the players were tired, we have to play too many games in a short time
8. We don't have any money to stay in hotels overnight and it tires the players to travel more than 3 hours on the bus it takes it out of them
9. We had 4 targets to sign, but we couldn't get them in on time
10. Sickness, a convenient virus is probably good for one or two games
11 We haven't been able to do any proper training because our training pitch is water logged we can only train in doors
12 The last one is they were the better team on the day, happens and most fans will accept this one.

Anyway Mark, hope this helps and make sure you got that bottle of red on the desk when i see you.

danny
A friend of mine hacked into an e-mail Mark sent to Danny Wilson the other day, it went like this. Dear Danny, i have it on good authority, (the Swindon fans), that you are in a class of your own, for coming up with good excuses. I'm getting a bit of stick at the moment because I haven't blamed myself for poor tactics and playing players out of position, you probably know what I mean, some of these guys are never happy unless they're having a moan. Any suggestions you can give me to get them off my back would be appreciated. Mark, P.S Look forward to seeing you next season when you get Barnsley relegated. Danny's reply was, Dear Mark, don't beat yourself up over this, lord know's that bunch gave me such a hard time i had to resign after I ran out of excuses, whatever you do don't blame yourself, it's a sign of weakness. On an average season you are going to drop points in about 30 games, so if you maintain 33% of wins that will probably satisfy the chairman biggest majority of them. I had about 10 to 12 that usually did the trick, you've probably used most of them, but here is a few suggestions. 1. Blame The ref, never fails as most of them are hated by fans anyway. 2. The conditions, a mud heap like I had at Brammel Lane or a bit of wind or rain, nobody can argue with that as a good reason for dropping points 3. No money to bring players in. I was lucky to have a board at Swindon with plenty of dosh, but again not a bad idea to use the fair play card a few time 4. Injuries, Well nobody can argue if you can't field your best team 5. The players are very young and still learning, good for a season or two 6. The players were clueless,find a scapegoat and put it down to being out on the town too late and too often), this lead to my downfall so you'll have to show them your going to come down hard on the culprits, also lock them in the dressing room for an hour or two and don't speak to the media, always makes it look good, you're doing something about it. 7. the players were tired, we have to play too many games in a short time 8. We don't have any money to stay in hotels overnight and it tires the players to travel more than 3 hours on the bus it takes it out of them 9. We had 4 targets to sign, but we couldn't get them in on time 10. Sickness, a convenient virus is probably good for one or two games 11 We haven't been able to do any proper training because our training pitch is water logged we can only train in doors 12 The last one is they were the better team on the day, happens and most fans will accept this one. Anyway Mark, hope this helps and make sure you got that bottle of red on the desk when i see you. danny old town robin
  • Score: 2

11:17am Fri 21 Feb 14

themoonraker says...

hertz wrote:
I believe when a team is winning the players just want to be part of the squad get over the knocks and get back on that pitch , after our dismal spell a twisted sock and its in the treatment room , that or there is something fudamentally wrong with our training regime and they just are'nt fit enough . CYR
I think that you haver hit the nail on the head with this post.
Our fitness levels over the past six weeks or so (maybe a bit longer) have looked very poor, couple this with the indiscipline (verbal and physical) and the problem is clear fior all to see.
I recall a comment from Massimo some montgs ago about being tired.....what a load of old claptrap, lack of fitness breeds laziness (not tiredness) which some of our players are very guilty of.
I have never knocked Mark Cooper as he is making the best of what is available and he cannot be expected to make a silk purse out of a sows ear BUT he can and should address and sort out the palyers fitness levels and indiscipline....SO please stop making excuses Mark and get our players fit and better disciplined, your winging and whining over the past couple of months is becoming tiresome and somewhat patronising to us fans, you might get away with it this season, but come October if the fitness levels and indiscipline are still there, you will find that no excuses form you wil be tolerated and your position may then become untenable.
The ball is firmly in youir court, prove to us that you are a decent manager who is both capable and worthy of managing our great club.....the excuses need to stop now.
[quote][p][bold]hertz[/bold] wrote: I believe when a team is winning the players just want to be part of the squad get over the knocks and get back on that pitch , after our dismal spell a twisted sock and its in the treatment room , that or there is something fudamentally wrong with our training regime and they just are'nt fit enough . CYR[/p][/quote]I think that you haver hit the nail on the head with this post. Our fitness levels over the past six weeks or so (maybe a bit longer) have looked very poor, couple this with the indiscipline (verbal and physical) and the problem is clear fior all to see. I recall a comment from Massimo some montgs ago about being tired.....what a load of old claptrap, lack of fitness breeds laziness (not tiredness) which some of our players are very guilty of. I have never knocked Mark Cooper as he is making the best of what is available and he cannot be expected to make a silk purse out of a sows ear BUT he can and should address and sort out the palyers fitness levels and indiscipline....SO please stop making excuses Mark and get our players fit and better disciplined, your winging and whining over the past couple of months is becoming tiresome and somewhat patronising to us fans, you might get away with it this season, but come October if the fitness levels and indiscipline are still there, you will find that no excuses form you wil be tolerated and your position may then become untenable. The ball is firmly in youir court, prove to us that you are a decent manager who is both capable and worthy of managing our great club.....the excuses need to stop now. themoonraker
  • Score: 2

12:17pm Fri 21 Feb 14

Wilesy says...

Points get dropped over the season for various reasons, injuries or suspended players, red cards in games, missed scoring opportunities, defensive errors, managers tactics and subs, players not putting in the effort or having an off day.

I would suggest we've lost more points this season from poor performances away when players were lazy / off day, than through injuries, together with a number of defensive errors. Tactics have been questionable but players more at fault imo. The red cards haven't helped either to be fair.

Contrast this to last season when I think we missed a lot of points from Williams, Collins and Roberts missing sitters at key opportunities. Williams missed countless 1 on 1's, and Roberts far too keen not to get hurt than stretch a bit for a tap in or a 1 yard header.
Points get dropped over the season for various reasons, injuries or suspended players, red cards in games, missed scoring opportunities, defensive errors, managers tactics and subs, players not putting in the effort or having an off day. I would suggest we've lost more points this season from poor performances away when players were lazy / off day, than through injuries, together with a number of defensive errors. Tactics have been questionable but players more at fault imo. The red cards haven't helped either to be fair. Contrast this to last season when I think we missed a lot of points from Williams, Collins and Roberts missing sitters at key opportunities. Williams missed countless 1 on 1's, and Roberts far too keen not to get hurt than stretch a bit for a tap in or a 1 yard header. Wilesy
  • Score: 2

12:45pm Fri 21 Feb 14

Wilesy says...

By the way not disputing we have had bad luck with injuries particularly Mason and Reis who we were probably planning on being first choice players at start of the season, but we have got cover and injuries happen to a lot of teams. I don't think we have had a game where we haven't been able to put out a side on paper capable of winning the game.
By the way not disputing we have had bad luck with injuries particularly Mason and Reis who we were probably planning on being first choice players at start of the season, but we have got cover and injuries happen to a lot of teams. I don't think we have had a game where we haven't been able to put out a side on paper capable of winning the game. Wilesy
  • Score: 2

12:59pm Fri 21 Feb 14

Swindon1984 says...

I'm not normally one to criticise the manager but come on Cooper -

“We’ve got a lot of players but at the moment we’re struggling for numbers that are available to play. We have a squad, we have to get on with it, I’ve said all season that I won’t use it as an excuse”

You can't say I'm not making excuses but then also say we'd be better off by ten points if only we had a bit more luck. Pointless comment as you never know what'll happen with injuries - who's to say you would have won the games with that particular player in the team? And who's to say a bench warmer that steps up to the plate won't do better than who you'd normally name on the teamsheet?

Every team gets injuries as Grim rightly pointed out, and we have a bigger squad than most to cover those injuries. Also, how many absences are down to injuries and how many are down to suspensions after back chatting the ref? We certainly haven't done ourselves any favours on that front.

Ranger getting an injury that'll keep him out till the end of the season is a definite blow, as it'll limit our ability to challenge for the play off spots, but realistically I don't think we would have made it anyway. You never know, and it's not over yet, just looking at the probability. What will have cost us without question is dropping points to poor sides when we've had a full squad to choose from - that's on the manager and players, not any misfortune we've had.
I'm not normally one to criticise the manager but come on Cooper - “We’ve got a lot of players but at the moment we’re struggling for numbers that are available to play. We have a squad, we have to get on with it, I’ve said all season that I won’t use it as an excuse” You can't say I'm not making excuses but then also say we'd be better off by ten points if only we had a bit more luck. Pointless comment as you never know what'll happen with injuries - who's to say you would have won the games with that particular player in the team? And who's to say a bench warmer that steps up to the plate won't do better than who you'd normally name on the teamsheet? Every team gets injuries as Grim rightly pointed out, and we have a bigger squad than most to cover those injuries. Also, how many absences are down to injuries and how many are down to suspensions after back chatting the ref? We certainly haven't done ourselves any favours on that front. Ranger getting an injury that'll keep him out till the end of the season is a definite blow, as it'll limit our ability to challenge for the play off spots, but realistically I don't think we would have made it anyway. You never know, and it's not over yet, just looking at the probability. What will have cost us without question is dropping points to poor sides when we've had a full squad to choose from - that's on the manager and players, not any misfortune we've had. Swindon1984
  • Score: 4

1:01pm Fri 21 Feb 14

lifelong red says...

old town robin wrote:
A friend of mine hacked into an e-mail Mark sent to Danny Wilson the other day, it went like this.

Dear Danny, i have it on good authority, (the Swindon fans), that you are in a class of your own, for coming up with good excuses. I'm getting a bit of stick at the moment because I haven't blamed myself for poor tactics and playing players out of position, you probably know what I mean, some of these guys are never happy unless they're having a moan. Any suggestions you can give me to get them off my back would be appreciated.

Mark,

P.S Look forward to seeing you next season when you get Barnsley relegated.

Danny's reply was,

Dear Mark, don't beat yourself up over this, lord know's that bunch gave me such a hard time i had to resign after I ran out of excuses, whatever you do don't blame yourself, it's a sign of weakness.

On an average season you are going to drop points in about 30 games, so if you maintain 33% of wins that will probably satisfy the chairman biggest majority of them.

I had about 10 to 12 that usually did the trick, you've probably used most of them, but here is a few suggestions.

1. Blame The ref, never fails as most of them are hated by fans anyway.
2. The conditions, a mud heap like I had at Brammel Lane or a bit of wind or rain, nobody can argue with that as a good reason for dropping points
3. No money to bring players in. I was lucky to have a board at Swindon with plenty of dosh, but again not a bad idea to use the fair play card a few time
4. Injuries, Well nobody can argue if you can't field your best team
5. The players are very young and still learning, good for a season or two
6. The players were clueless,find a scapegoat and put it down to being out on the town too late and too often), this lead to my downfall so you'll have to show them your going to come down hard on the culprits, also lock them in the dressing room for an hour or two and don't speak to the media, always makes it look good, you're doing something about it.
7. the players were tired, we have to play too many games in a short time
8. We don't have any money to stay in hotels overnight and it tires the players to travel more than 3 hours on the bus it takes it out of them
9. We had 4 targets to sign, but we couldn't get them in on time
10. Sickness, a convenient virus is probably good for one or two games
11 We haven't been able to do any proper training because our training pitch is water logged we can only train in doors
12 The last one is they were the better team on the day, happens and most fans will accept this one.

Anyway Mark, hope this helps and make sure you got that bottle of red on the desk when i see you.

danny
Bit below the belt , hacking into someones Email , don't think I would be very happy if it were me - but who can blame him after all the flak he*s taken on here.
[quote][p][bold]old town robin[/bold] wrote: A friend of mine hacked into an e-mail Mark sent to Danny Wilson the other day, it went like this. Dear Danny, i have it on good authority, (the Swindon fans), that you are in a class of your own, for coming up with good excuses. I'm getting a bit of stick at the moment because I haven't blamed myself for poor tactics and playing players out of position, you probably know what I mean, some of these guys are never happy unless they're having a moan. Any suggestions you can give me to get them off my back would be appreciated. Mark, P.S Look forward to seeing you next season when you get Barnsley relegated. Danny's reply was, Dear Mark, don't beat yourself up over this, lord know's that bunch gave me such a hard time i had to resign after I ran out of excuses, whatever you do don't blame yourself, it's a sign of weakness. On an average season you are going to drop points in about 30 games, so if you maintain 33% of wins that will probably satisfy the chairman biggest majority of them. I had about 10 to 12 that usually did the trick, you've probably used most of them, but here is a few suggestions. 1. Blame The ref, never fails as most of them are hated by fans anyway. 2. The conditions, a mud heap like I had at Brammel Lane or a bit of wind or rain, nobody can argue with that as a good reason for dropping points 3. No money to bring players in. I was lucky to have a board at Swindon with plenty of dosh, but again not a bad idea to use the fair play card a few time 4. Injuries, Well nobody can argue if you can't field your best team 5. The players are very young and still learning, good for a season or two 6. The players were clueless,find a scapegoat and put it down to being out on the town too late and too often), this lead to my downfall so you'll have to show them your going to come down hard on the culprits, also lock them in the dressing room for an hour or two and don't speak to the media, always makes it look good, you're doing something about it. 7. the players were tired, we have to play too many games in a short time 8. We don't have any money to stay in hotels overnight and it tires the players to travel more than 3 hours on the bus it takes it out of them 9. We had 4 targets to sign, but we couldn't get them in on time 10. Sickness, a convenient virus is probably good for one or two games 11 We haven't been able to do any proper training because our training pitch is water logged we can only train in doors 12 The last one is they were the better team on the day, happens and most fans will accept this one. Anyway Mark, hope this helps and make sure you got that bottle of red on the desk when i see you. danny[/p][/quote]Bit below the belt , hacking into someones Email , don't think I would be very happy if it were me - but who can blame him after all the flak he*s taken on here. lifelong red
  • Score: 0

1:02pm Fri 21 Feb 14

Swindon1984 says...

hertz wrote:
I believe when a team is winning the players just want to be part of the squad get over the knocks and get back on that pitch , after our dismal spell a twisted sock and its in the treatment room , that or there is something fudamentally wrong with our training regime and they just are'nt fit enough . CYR
Correct - it's telling how Dany N'Guessan, according to Cooper, didn't reveal his injury straight away, preferring to take the two days off and bring it up once he was due to start training again. In a winning side he may well have been in to see the physio the following morning. I said after the Oldham game the players looked like they knew their season was over already. Happily there've been some far better performances since then, but have to wonder if that'll change now the draw of playing at Wembley's gone.

Anyway, enough of that depressing nonsense, come on lads prove me wrong and do the business at Brisbane Road - I'm going for a (possibly optimistic) hard fought 1-1 draw.
[quote][p][bold]hertz[/bold] wrote: I believe when a team is winning the players just want to be part of the squad get over the knocks and get back on that pitch , after our dismal spell a twisted sock and its in the treatment room , that or there is something fudamentally wrong with our training regime and they just are'nt fit enough . CYR[/p][/quote]Correct - it's telling how Dany N'Guessan, according to Cooper, didn't reveal his injury straight away, preferring to take the two days off and bring it up once he was due to start training again. In a winning side he may well have been in to see the physio the following morning. I said after the Oldham game the players looked like they knew their season was over already. Happily there've been some far better performances since then, but have to wonder if that'll change now the draw of playing at Wembley's gone. Anyway, enough of that depressing nonsense, come on lads prove me wrong and do the business at Brisbane Road - I'm going for a (possibly optimistic) hard fought 1-1 draw. Swindon1984
  • Score: 1

1:04pm Fri 21 Feb 14

Swindon1984 says...

Sorry, just had a look on another article which we're not allowed comment on, I wonder why...

"Smith has pledged to fill Ranger’s void"

Was going to say there be plenty of volunteers for that in prison but...

Come on it's a joke, just a Friday joke. Apologies for any offence caused, genuinely.
Sorry, just had a look on another article which we're not allowed comment on, I wonder why... "Smith has pledged to fill Ranger’s void" Was going to say there be plenty of volunteers for that in prison but... Come on it's a joke, just a Friday joke. Apologies for any offence caused, genuinely. Swindon1984
  • Score: -3

1:10pm Fri 21 Feb 14

lifelong red says...

sorry- meant to say -as for that Email cooper sent Wilson- but you get my drift.
sorry- meant to say -as for that Email cooper sent Wilson- but you get my drift. lifelong red
  • Score: -3

2:25pm Fri 21 Feb 14

harley red says...

Chish and Fips wrote:
harley red wrote:
Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!!
Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster...

We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.
Choke on your chips !!!!!
[quote][p][bold]Chish and Fips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!![/p][/quote]Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster... We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.[/p][/quote]Choke on your chips !!!!! harley red
  • Score: 0

3:07pm Fri 21 Feb 14

Chish and Fips says...

harley red wrote:
Chish and Fips wrote:
harley red wrote:
Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!!
Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster...

We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.
Choke on your chips !!!!!
Fall off your Harley ... ;O)
[quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chish and Fips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!![/p][/quote]Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster... We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.[/p][/quote]Choke on your chips !!!!![/p][/quote]Fall off your Harley ... ;O) Chish and Fips
  • Score: -1

3:28pm Fri 21 Feb 14

smirg kcab says...

Chish and Fips wrote:
harley red wrote:
Chish and Fips wrote:
harley red wrote:
Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!!
Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster...

We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.
Choke on your chips !!!!!
Fall off your Harley ... ;O)
Chish I'm shocked you never post anything swindon town just slaags people opinions off, if you don't like them why waste your time?
Just. Thought
Onwards and upwards
[quote][p][bold]Chish and Fips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chish and Fips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!![/p][/quote]Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster... We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.[/p][/quote]Choke on your chips !!!!![/p][/quote]Fall off your Harley ... ;O)[/p][/quote]Chish I'm shocked you never post anything swindon town just slaags people opinions off, if you don't like them why waste your time? Just. Thought Onwards and upwards smirg kcab
  • Score: -1

4:23pm Fri 21 Feb 14

Chish and Fips says...

smirg kcab wrote:
Chish and Fips wrote:
harley red wrote:
Chish and Fips wrote:
harley red wrote:
Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!!
Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster...

We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.
Choke on your chips !!!!!
Fall off your Harley ... ;O)
Chish I'm shocked you never post anything swindon town just slaags people opinions off, if you don't like them why waste your time?
Just. Thought
Onwards and upwards
I do post on the odd occasion about STFC thats if I feel that I'm qualified to - but this season I haven't been out there yet.
I do get fed up with some on here though, who keep repeating the same old lines - at least you know some different t lines and which buttons to push - and I believe you do go out there.
I'm sure half of these Cooper out brigade don't attend the matches unlike your good self Grim.
Another. Just a thought, to your Just a thought... :o)
Smile and the world smiles with you ...
[quote][p][bold]smirg kcab[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chish and Fips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chish and Fips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!![/p][/quote]Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster... We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.[/p][/quote]Choke on your chips !!!!![/p][/quote]Fall off your Harley ... ;O)[/p][/quote]Chish I'm shocked you never post anything swindon town just slaags people opinions off, if you don't like them why waste your time? Just. Thought Onwards and upwards[/p][/quote]I do post on the odd occasion about STFC thats if I feel that I'm qualified to - but this season I haven't been out there yet. I do get fed up with some on here though, who keep repeating the same old lines - at least you know some different t lines and which buttons to push - and I believe you do go out there. I'm sure half of these Cooper out brigade don't attend the matches unlike your good self Grim. Another. Just a thought, to your Just a thought... :o) Smile and the world smiles with you ... Chish and Fips
  • Score: -2

6:23pm Fri 21 Feb 14

dazzastfc says...

Chish and Fips wrote:
harley red wrote:
Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!!
Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster...

We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.
Why not the manager is doing it after every defeat ?
[quote][p][bold]Chish and Fips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!![/p][/quote]Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster... We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.[/p][/quote]Why not the manager is doing it after every defeat ? dazzastfc
  • Score: 0

6:39pm Fri 21 Feb 14

Chish and Fips says...

dazzastfc wrote:
Chish and Fips wrote:
harley red wrote:
Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!!
Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster...

We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.
Why not the manager is doing it after every defeat ?
and like wise it has the same effect you are saying - tedious ... I'd agree as I was pointing out.
[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chish and Fips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: Maybe cooper but your poor management skills or lack of has cost us a trip to wembley and 15 points . Why do you blame every one and every thing else when YOUR poor tactics most of the time !!![/p][/quote]Oh dear more negative repetitive same ol same ol from the same poster... We all have opinions but to keep rolling out the same one day after day is very tedious.[/p][/quote]Why not the manager is doing it after every defeat ?[/p][/quote]and like wise it has the same effect you are saying - tedious ... I'd agree as I was pointing out. Chish and Fips
  • Score: -1

9:57pm Fri 21 Feb 14

The Jockster says...

smirg kcab wrote:
Nothing to do with Injuries every club gets them, it's more down to the very very poor discipline and very very poor tactics over the season.
Thought you blamed the ref every game anyway?
Just a thought
Home banker, season over
Spot on Grim - the minus muppets simpletons can't see further than the end of their rose titnted noses - the number if yellow & red cards and resultant suspensions have had far more effect on team selection than any injuries sustained. Some big words there happy to explain for some of our more intellectually( oops there's another one!) challenged posters :)
[quote][p][bold]smirg kcab[/bold] wrote: Nothing to do with Injuries every club gets them, it's more down to the very very poor discipline and very very poor tactics over the season. Thought you blamed the ref every game anyway? Just a thought Home banker, season over[/p][/quote]Spot on Grim - the minus muppets simpletons can't see further than the end of their rose titnted noses - the number if yellow & red cards and resultant suspensions have had far more effect on team selection than any injuries sustained. Some big words there happy to explain for some of our more intellectually( oops there's another one!) challenged posters :) The Jockster
  • Score: 0

10:03pm Fri 21 Feb 14

The Jockster says...

old town robin wrote:
A friend of mine hacked into an e-mail Mark sent to Danny Wilson the other day, it went like this.

Dear Danny, i have it on good authority, (the Swindon fans), that you are in a class of your own, for coming up with good excuses. I'm getting a bit of stick at the moment because I haven't blamed myself for poor tactics and playing players out of position, you probably know what I mean, some of these guys are never happy unless they're having a moan. Any suggestions you can give me to get them off my back would be appreciated.

Mark,

P.S Look forward to seeing you next season when you get Barnsley relegated.

Danny's reply was,

Dear Mark, don't beat yourself up over this, lord know's that bunch gave me such a hard time i had to resign after I ran out of excuses, whatever you do don't blame yourself, it's a sign of weakness.

On an average season you are going to drop points in about 30 games, so if you maintain 33% of wins that will probably satisfy the chairman biggest majority of them.

I had about 10 to 12 that usually did the trick, you've probably used most of them, but here is a few suggestions.

1. Blame The ref, never fails as most of them are hated by fans anyway.
2. The conditions, a mud heap like I had at Brammel Lane or a bit of wind or rain, nobody can argue with that as a good reason for dropping points
3. No money to bring players in. I was lucky to have a board at Swindon with plenty of dosh, but again not a bad idea to use the fair play card a few time
4. Injuries, Well nobody can argue if you can't field your best team
5. The players are very young and still learning, good for a season or two
6. The players were clueless,find a scapegoat and put it down to being out on the town too late and too often), this lead to my downfall so you'll have to show them your going to come down hard on the culprits, also lock them in the dressing room for an hour or two and don't speak to the media, always makes it look good, you're doing something about it.
7. the players were tired, we have to play too many games in a short time
8. We don't have any money to stay in hotels overnight and it tires the players to travel more than 3 hours on the bus it takes it out of them
9. We had 4 targets to sign, but we couldn't get them in on time
10. Sickness, a convenient virus is probably good for one or two games
11 We haven't been able to do any proper training because our training pitch is water logged we can only train in doors
12 The last one is they were the better team on the day, happens and most fans will accept this one.

Anyway Mark, hope this helps and make sure you got that bottle of red on the desk when i see you.

danny
OTR - clearly you have far too much time on your hands lol! But I like the cut of your jib!
[quote][p][bold]old town robin[/bold] wrote: A friend of mine hacked into an e-mail Mark sent to Danny Wilson the other day, it went like this. Dear Danny, i have it on good authority, (the Swindon fans), that you are in a class of your own, for coming up with good excuses. I'm getting a bit of stick at the moment because I haven't blamed myself for poor tactics and playing players out of position, you probably know what I mean, some of these guys are never happy unless they're having a moan. Any suggestions you can give me to get them off my back would be appreciated. Mark, P.S Look forward to seeing you next season when you get Barnsley relegated. Danny's reply was, Dear Mark, don't beat yourself up over this, lord know's that bunch gave me such a hard time i had to resign after I ran out of excuses, whatever you do don't blame yourself, it's a sign of weakness. On an average season you are going to drop points in about 30 games, so if you maintain 33% of wins that will probably satisfy the chairman biggest majority of them. I had about 10 to 12 that usually did the trick, you've probably used most of them, but here is a few suggestions. 1. Blame The ref, never fails as most of them are hated by fans anyway. 2. The conditions, a mud heap like I had at Brammel Lane or a bit of wind or rain, nobody can argue with that as a good reason for dropping points 3. No money to bring players in. I was lucky to have a board at Swindon with plenty of dosh, but again not a bad idea to use the fair play card a few time 4. Injuries, Well nobody can argue if you can't field your best team 5. The players are very young and still learning, good for a season or two 6. The players were clueless,find a scapegoat and put it down to being out on the town too late and too often), this lead to my downfall so you'll have to show them your going to come down hard on the culprits, also lock them in the dressing room for an hour or two and don't speak to the media, always makes it look good, you're doing something about it. 7. the players were tired, we have to play too many games in a short time 8. We don't have any money to stay in hotels overnight and it tires the players to travel more than 3 hours on the bus it takes it out of them 9. We had 4 targets to sign, but we couldn't get them in on time 10. Sickness, a convenient virus is probably good for one or two games 11 We haven't been able to do any proper training because our training pitch is water logged we can only train in doors 12 The last one is they were the better team on the day, happens and most fans will accept this one. Anyway Mark, hope this helps and make sure you got that bottle of red on the desk when i see you. danny[/p][/quote]OTR - clearly you have far too much time on your hands lol! But I like the cut of your jib! The Jockster
  • Score: 0

12:07am Sat 22 Feb 14

the wizard says...

After reading the above comments from Cooper I had to check the date on the calender as it was obvious he would say all of this on 1st April.

I think Cooper has hit his ability buffers, and is unable to take this team any further. The shear number of cards and suspensions is alarming as others have said. Add to that his tactics and team selections and there you are, all the reasons, not excuses. I think in all honesty most have given Cooper support beyond his capability and ability. I think he would work better as an assistant which is what he was when appointed.
I'll give the guy some credit though in as much as he has got us this far and at times we have played some better than expected football, but his trend of late has not been as good as we hoped and his team selection and tactics on occasion beggars belief.
Power, get real and appoint somebody with experience at the end of the season so they can work with you in selecting players for next season. All is not lost, we still have the club and a future, even if it does come at a turnstile cost. Time always brings change, but some of the changes around the ground over the last season or so have not been for the better and the Legends is one item that has been seriously ruined. If only we could turn the clock back in there two years to when it was full on match days and the tills ringing, well that is a good place to start. Packed out with happy people like it should be.
After reading the above comments from Cooper I had to check the date on the calender as it was obvious he would say all of this on 1st April. I think Cooper has hit his ability buffers, and is unable to take this team any further. The shear number of cards and suspensions is alarming as others have said. Add to that his tactics and team selections and there you are, all the reasons, not excuses. I think in all honesty most have given Cooper support beyond his capability and ability. I think he would work better as an assistant which is what he was when appointed. I'll give the guy some credit though in as much as he has got us this far and at times we have played some better than expected football, but his trend of late has not been as good as we hoped and his team selection and tactics on occasion beggars belief. Power, get real and appoint somebody with experience at the end of the season so they can work with you in selecting players for next season. All is not lost, we still have the club and a future, even if it does come at a turnstile cost. Time always brings change, but some of the changes around the ground over the last season or so have not been for the better and the Legends is one item that has been seriously ruined. If only we could turn the clock back in there two years to when it was full on match days and the tills ringing, well that is a good place to start. Packed out with happy people like it should be. the wizard
  • Score: 0

11:00am Sat 22 Feb 14

Old-Stager, Hilperton says...

I would guess that our injury situation has been far higher than "average" this season, so I would agree with Mark Cooper on that point.
Refereeing decisions also do seem to take their toll against the Town in the League and the Cup.
For instance the two JPT Southern Area Final games; In the first leg the Ref brandishes a Red Card instead of a Yellow against Jay McEveley, and in the second leg the Ref unbelievably doesn't show a Red Card for one of the most blatant penalties I have ever seen. - This was such an important decision by Mr Keith Stroud which has gifted a trip to Wembley for Peterborough United, and in doing so has cost Swindon Town F.C. a massive amount of money.
I would guess that our injury situation has been far higher than "average" this season, so I would agree with Mark Cooper on that point. Refereeing decisions also do seem to take their toll against the Town in the League and the Cup. For instance the two JPT Southern Area Final games; In the first leg the Ref brandishes a Red Card instead of a Yellow against Jay McEveley, and in the second leg the Ref unbelievably doesn't show a Red Card for one of the most blatant penalties I have ever seen. - This was such an important decision by Mr Keith Stroud which has gifted a trip to Wembley for Peterborough United, and in doing so has cost Swindon Town F.C. a massive amount of money. Old-Stager, Hilperton
  • Score: 0

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