Cooper wants quick additions to squad after Bromley draw

Mark Cooper

Mark Cooper

First published in Sport by

MARK Cooper said there was “plenty to work on” after watching his side draw 1-1 with Bromley on Saturday.

The Robins were in control of the clash at the Fortress Stadium in the first half but fell apart in the second and were only spared embarassment by a good performance from Wes Foderingham in goal and the Bromley players’ abject finising.

In the end, Michael Smith’s tap-in kept Swindon from falling to defeat and Cooper reflected on the game by saying: “In the second half, when we made the substitutions, we lost our rhythm. We started running with the ball and stopped passing it and people were falling over the ball on a sticky pitch, and we kept getting caught on the break. There’s plenty there to work on.

“It was what we wanted. We got a tough test in terms of fitness. We had a tough week in training, we weren’t going to ease up on the players just because we had a game. We wanted them to work hard this week and second half they were very tired.”

Town are still keen to tie up deals for four Premier League youngsters on loan before the season gets under way on August 9. Jack Stephens of Southampton and Liverpool full-back Brad Smith are on the menu for Cooper, but business is slow at the County Ground at present.

“I’ve said to you guys for a while now, we are three or four players short - even in terms of first-team players to go straight into the team,” said the Robins boss. “We need three or four players in and we need them in quickly so we can work with them. Nothing changes - we keep working, go to the training ground and prepare for Leeds.”

Reports on Saturday night suggesting Nathan Thompson was close to signing for Peterborough United are wide of the mark, with sources close to the Town captain telling the Advertiser there have been no new developments.

Meanwhile, Ty Belford missed the trip to Bromley because of a stomach bug, while Matty Jones was also absent, Jack Barthram was withdrawn at half-time due to a sore groin and Will Randall was absent with a tight hamstring.

“Jack’s had a sore groin for a couple of weeks now. He wanted to play and we took him off as a precaution,” said Cooper.

“Matty Jones we felt wou’d benefit more from having 90 minutes playing against Aston Villa in the youth team.”

Comments (36)

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6:07am Mon 28 Jul 14

port de soller says...

yes additions are needed,however must be the right ones??????anyone other than JS and the Liverpool player in the frame
Sat yes was a god work out,just seen highlights on the Bromley FC site and you would never have known who were the non leauge side.Still iit was a stern test with I guess Bromley looking the better side.
However let´s not forget it was a"FRIENDLY"
It would be far to easy to jump and say oh the signs are there we will go down this season B/S
They will find it hard and who knows they could surprise all of us like they did last season.OK I do think maybe 2/3 might just be sold alas this is STFC and if selling helps the club to survive financially so be it
So good luck Town for coming season shock us all
yes additions are needed,however must be the right ones??????anyone other than JS and the Liverpool player in the frame Sat yes was a god work out,just seen highlights on the Bromley FC site and you would never have known who were the non leauge side.Still iit was a stern test with I guess Bromley looking the better side. However let´s not forget it was a"FRIENDLY" It would be far to easy to jump and say oh the signs are there we will go down this season B/S They will find it hard and who knows they could surprise all of us like they did last season.OK I do think maybe 2/3 might just be sold alas this is STFC and if selling helps the club to survive financially so be it So good luck Town for coming season shock us all port de soller
  • Score: -9

6:08am Mon 28 Jul 14

Scouse Red says...

hope there is no truth in this 'Nathan to the Posh' story - if he does have to go, and i hope he doesn't, let's hope it's to a big club which benefits both him and the Town
hope there is no truth in this 'Nathan to the Posh' story - if he does have to go, and i hope he doesn't, let's hope it's to a big club which benefits both him and the Town Scouse Red
  • Score: 12

7:51am Mon 28 Jul 14

London Red says...

Scouse Red wrote:
hope there is no truth in this 'Nathan to the Posh' story - if he does have to go, and i hope he doesn't, let's hope it's to a big club which benefits both him and the Town
Both our management and the Posh chairman have said there is no truth in the rumours
[quote][p][bold]Scouse Red[/bold] wrote: hope there is no truth in this 'Nathan to the Posh' story - if he does have to go, and i hope he doesn't, let's hope it's to a big club which benefits both him and the Town[/p][/quote]Both our management and the Posh chairman have said there is no truth in the rumours London Red
  • Score: 3

8:01am Mon 28 Jul 14

EastleazeRed says...

London Red wrote:
Scouse Red wrote:
hope there is no truth in this 'Nathan to the Posh' story - if he does have to go, and i hope he doesn't, let's hope it's to a big club which benefits both him and the Town
Both our management and the Posh chairman have said there is no truth in the rumours
No smoke without fire London ! Squad Still looking very thin on the ground . Could see some panic signings .
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Scouse Red[/bold] wrote: hope there is no truth in this 'Nathan to the Posh' story - if he does have to go, and i hope he doesn't, let's hope it's to a big club which benefits both him and the Town[/p][/quote]Both our management and the Posh chairman have said there is no truth in the rumours[/p][/quote]No smoke without fire London ! Squad Still looking very thin on the ground . Could see some panic signings . EastleazeRed
  • Score: -8

8:59am Mon 28 Jul 14

pastor_of_muppets says...

EastleazeRed wrote:
London Red wrote:
Scouse Red wrote:
hope there is no truth in this 'Nathan to the Posh' story - if he does have to go, and i hope he doesn't, let's hope it's to a big club which benefits both him and the Town
Both our management and the Posh chairman have said there is no truth in the rumours
No smoke without fire London ! Squad Still looking very thin on the ground . Could see some panic signings .
What a ridiculous thing to say. If that were true then Foderingham played for Boremuff and Brentford last year and Jason Roberts was our captain
[quote][p][bold]EastleazeRed[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Scouse Red[/bold] wrote: hope there is no truth in this 'Nathan to the Posh' story - if he does have to go, and i hope he doesn't, let's hope it's to a big club which benefits both him and the Town[/p][/quote]Both our management and the Posh chairman have said there is no truth in the rumours[/p][/quote]No smoke without fire London ! Squad Still looking very thin on the ground . Could see some panic signings .[/p][/quote]What a ridiculous thing to say. If that were true then Foderingham played for Boremuff and Brentford last year and Jason Roberts was our captain pastor_of_muppets
  • Score: 4

9:33am Mon 28 Jul 14

Swindon1984 says...

EastleazeRed wrote:
London Red wrote:
Scouse Red wrote: hope there is no truth in this 'Nathan to the Posh' story - if he does have to go, and i hope he doesn't, let's hope it's to a big club which benefits both him and the Town
Both our management and the Posh chairman have said there is no truth in the rumours
No smoke without fire London ! Squad Still looking very thin on the ground . Could see some panic signings .
To be fair, the rumour sites are full of smoke without fire. Unless the information's coming from a reliable source I wouldn't pay much attention. If it happens it happens but if you look at who Posh have signed it doesn't look like they'll even need Nathan. Whilst I like him as a player, he needs to sort his discipline out - too many cards, and too much reaction (remember vividly against Yeovil a couple of years back one of their players knocking him to the ground and being carded - knew that a couple of minutes later Nathan would end up getting carded as well and of course he did, chasing down the Yeovil guy and battering him. That's only one example of many).
[quote][p][bold]EastleazeRed[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Scouse Red[/bold] wrote: hope there is no truth in this 'Nathan to the Posh' story - if he does have to go, and i hope he doesn't, let's hope it's to a big club which benefits both him and the Town[/p][/quote]Both our management and the Posh chairman have said there is no truth in the rumours[/p][/quote]No smoke without fire London ! Squad Still looking very thin on the ground . Could see some panic signings .[/p][/quote]To be fair, the rumour sites are full of smoke without fire. Unless the information's coming from a reliable source I wouldn't pay much attention. If it happens it happens but if you look at who Posh have signed it doesn't look like they'll even need Nathan. Whilst I like him as a player, he needs to sort his discipline out - too many cards, and too much reaction (remember vividly against Yeovil a couple of years back one of their players knocking him to the ground and being carded - knew that a couple of minutes later Nathan would end up getting carded as well and of course he did, chasing down the Yeovil guy and battering him. That's only one example of many). Swindon1984
  • Score: -1

9:57am Mon 28 Jul 14

The Jockster says...

Rumour or no rumour we are embarrassingly short of putting out even a makeshift side let alone a first choice one.
Whilst understanding the need to be sustainable and cut our cloth accordingly where are there any signs of ambition? How are we going to progress and develop a team capable of challenging for promotion when we are constantly relying on loanees from premiership outfits and face the prospect of losing what few players we have who could form the nucleus of a decent squad.
On reflection I'm glad I didn't shell out for a season ticket because the challenge is even greater than it was last season. I hope Cooper & Power can demonstrate that, that will not be the case.
Rumour or no rumour we are embarrassingly short of putting out even a makeshift side let alone a first choice one. Whilst understanding the need to be sustainable and cut our cloth accordingly where are there any signs of ambition? How are we going to progress and develop a team capable of challenging for promotion when we are constantly relying on loanees from premiership outfits and face the prospect of losing what few players we have who could form the nucleus of a decent squad. On reflection I'm glad I didn't shell out for a season ticket because the challenge is even greater than it was last season. I hope Cooper & Power can demonstrate that, that will not be the case. The Jockster
  • Score: 2

9:59am Mon 28 Jul 14

Wilesy says...

Just had a quick look on the Saints Echo I see their fans are on melt down, 821 comments on one of the latest sale articles. Just can't see how they can let Stephens (or anyone) go out on loan at this point.

Have to say the more I see of the way the Premier League is going you just realize how far away we are. When the probable transfer fee for a young right back who has played what 20 games (Chambers) is around £16 million, that's 10 times our playing budget it's just ridiculous. And the fact that other than Shaw, Lallana, Lambert and Colback I don't think there have been any English players recruited just cheap foreign imports.

For all his faults FA's Greg Dyke has been saying how it is, criticising the PL for this sort of stuff. OK his new league theory wouldn't solve the source of the problem, only the PL or the law makers can do that. When will it all end will there come a breaking point where there are no English players in the PL or England has to recruit from the Championship?
Just had a quick look on the Saints Echo I see their fans are on melt down, 821 comments on one of the latest sale articles. Just can't see how they can let Stephens (or anyone) go out on loan at this point. Have to say the more I see of the way the Premier League is going you just realize how far away we are. When the probable transfer fee for a young right back who has played what 20 games (Chambers) is around £16 million, that's 10 times our playing budget it's just ridiculous. And the fact that other than Shaw, Lallana, Lambert and Colback I don't think there have been any English players recruited just cheap foreign imports. For all his faults FA's Greg Dyke has been saying how it is, criticising the PL for this sort of stuff. OK his new league theory wouldn't solve the source of the problem, only the PL or the law makers can do that. When will it all end will there come a breaking point where there are no English players in the PL or England has to recruit from the Championship? Wilesy
  • Score: 11

10:30am Mon 28 Jul 14

Swindon1984 says...

Wilesy wrote:
Just had a quick look on the Saints Echo I see their fans are on melt down, 821 comments on one of the latest sale articles. Just can't see how they can let Stephens (or anyone) go out on loan at this point. Have to say the more I see of the way the Premier League is going you just realize how far away we are. When the probable transfer fee for a young right back who has played what 20 games (Chambers) is around £16 million, that's 10 times our playing budget it's just ridiculous. And the fact that other than Shaw, Lallana, Lambert and Colback I don't think there have been any English players recruited just cheap foreign imports. For all his faults FA's Greg Dyke has been saying how it is, criticising the PL for this sort of stuff. OK his new league theory wouldn't solve the source of the problem, only the PL or the law makers can do that. When will it all end will there come a breaking point where there are no English players in the PL or England has to recruit from the Championship?
Not sure I'd say foreign players are necessarily "cheap", just cheaper. It's something I've said for a long time, English players really do price themselves out of the market when you look at how much even average homegrown players are at the top level.

The money in the game is crazy, there's no doubt about it. Fair play to Van Gaal for criticising the man united pre season schedule as being detrimental to the squad - not that it matters as getting the brand out to as many territories as possible is the driving force - there're shades of the Harlem globetrotters about some of these pre-season run outs for the bigger teams, putting on a bit of theatre for those abroad to entice them into buying more replica shirts, or courting for foreign sponsors.

As much as we could debate the causes and the potential for changes all day, I get a bit bored with it. I've said before, those with the power (i.e. money) to change things don't want to - and why would they, as it's detrimental for them; and those who should want to (e.g. the FA, Football League, and various sporting think thanks, ministers, fan groups etc etc) have no power when compared with the financial power within the game at the highest level. We've got ourselves into an almighty mess, and I don't think anyone who could get us out of it has the inclination to do so.

Short of a revolution where every single football supporter (and armchair supporter, just as importantly) rips up their season ticket and cancels their Sky Sports subscription to go down the local park and watch amateurs kick a ball around, I fear we're all stuck on this merry-go-round, the momentum of which shows no sign of slowing.
[quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote: Just had a quick look on the Saints Echo I see their fans are on melt down, 821 comments on one of the latest sale articles. Just can't see how they can let Stephens (or anyone) go out on loan at this point. Have to say the more I see of the way the Premier League is going you just realize how far away we are. When the probable transfer fee for a young right back who has played what 20 games (Chambers) is around £16 million, that's 10 times our playing budget it's just ridiculous. And the fact that other than Shaw, Lallana, Lambert and Colback I don't think there have been any English players recruited just cheap foreign imports. For all his faults FA's Greg Dyke has been saying how it is, criticising the PL for this sort of stuff. OK his new league theory wouldn't solve the source of the problem, only the PL or the law makers can do that. When will it all end will there come a breaking point where there are no English players in the PL or England has to recruit from the Championship?[/p][/quote]Not sure I'd say foreign players are necessarily "cheap", just cheaper. It's something I've said for a long time, English players really do price themselves out of the market when you look at how much even average homegrown players are at the top level. The money in the game is crazy, there's no doubt about it. Fair play to Van Gaal for criticising the man united pre season schedule as being detrimental to the squad - not that it matters as getting the brand out to as many territories as possible is the driving force - there're shades of the Harlem globetrotters about some of these pre-season run outs for the bigger teams, putting on a bit of theatre for those abroad to entice them into buying more replica shirts, or courting for foreign sponsors. As much as we could debate the causes and the potential for changes all day, I get a bit bored with it. I've said before, those with the power (i.e. money) to change things don't want to - and why would they, as it's detrimental for them; and those who should want to (e.g. the FA, Football League, and various sporting think thanks, ministers, fan groups etc etc) have no power when compared with the financial power within the game at the highest level. We've got ourselves into an almighty mess, and I don't think anyone who could get us out of it has the inclination to do so. Short of a revolution where every single football supporter (and armchair supporter, just as importantly) rips up their season ticket and cancels their Sky Sports subscription to go down the local park and watch amateurs kick a ball around, I fear we're all stuck on this merry-go-round, the momentum of which shows no sign of slowing. Swindon1984
  • Score: 13

10:36am Mon 28 Jul 14

Swindon1984 says...

Oh - or if you want to kill the snake, chop off the head. Cut loose the top 12 premiership clubs to play in a global league where fans can watch from their various pubs/armchairs, make the Championship the top level of English football, expand the remaining leagues to 26 each and redistribute TV money on a more even keel across the four divisions. No invovlvement from top prem clubs in any domestic cup competition, and seed all but the FA cup into regional heats. Just brain storming here - said I was bored of the debate so thought I'd go for something a bit more off the wall :-)
Oh - or if you want to kill the snake, chop off the head. Cut loose the top 12 premiership clubs to play in a global league where fans can watch from their various pubs/armchairs, make the Championship the top level of English football, expand the remaining leagues to 26 each and redistribute TV money on a more even keel across the four divisions. No invovlvement from top prem clubs in any domestic cup competition, and seed all but the FA cup into regional heats. Just brain storming here - said I was bored of the debate so thought I'd go for something a bit more off the wall :-) Swindon1984
  • Score: 17

11:00am Mon 28 Jul 14

port de soller says...

I said the other day why is STFC allways in the Brown stuff????? gates are a lot better than most clubs in our division,managers seem to attract players without all the fuss that MC appears to be having.
Just amazed that with our gate revenue we appear to be at a standstill why?????
I said the other day why is STFC allways in the Brown stuff????? gates are a lot better than most clubs in our division,managers seem to attract players without all the fuss that MC appears to be having. Just amazed that with our gate revenue we appear to be at a standstill why????? port de soller
  • Score: 2

11:01am Mon 28 Jul 14

London Red says...

The Jockster wrote:
Rumour or no rumour we are embarrassingly short of putting out even a makeshift side let alone a first choice one. Whilst understanding the need to be sustainable and cut our cloth accordingly where are there any signs of ambition? How are we going to progress and develop a team capable of challenging for promotion when we are constantly relying on loanees from premiership outfits and face the prospect of losing what few players we have who could form the nucleus of a decent squad. On reflection I'm glad I didn't shell out for a season ticket because the challenge is even greater than it was last season. I hope Cooper & Power can demonstrate that, that will not be the case.
Jock isn't the ambition shown by not cashing in on the crown jewels?
.
£800k in for Nathan and Luongo would have happened before - but we have stood firm!
.
That also sends out a message on the others like Wes and Louis
.
The core of the team is there and we just need to add to it - this was always going to take time - especially after the court case fiasco causing a lot of finabcial problems - i.e Power said it cost £800k!
.
We've signed previous loanees before - so who is to say 1, 2 or all 4 don't sign on next season to add to the core?
.
As others have pointe dout perm transfers often come and go in 12 months - so are thet really any differen tto loans?
[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Rumour or no rumour we are embarrassingly short of putting out even a makeshift side let alone a first choice one. Whilst understanding the need to be sustainable and cut our cloth accordingly where are there any signs of ambition? How are we going to progress and develop a team capable of challenging for promotion when we are constantly relying on loanees from premiership outfits and face the prospect of losing what few players we have who could form the nucleus of a decent squad. On reflection I'm glad I didn't shell out for a season ticket because the challenge is even greater than it was last season. I hope Cooper & Power can demonstrate that, that will not be the case.[/p][/quote]Jock isn't the ambition shown by not cashing in on the crown jewels? . £800k in for Nathan and Luongo would have happened before - but we have stood firm! . That also sends out a message on the others like Wes and Louis . The core of the team is there and we just need to add to it - this was always going to take time - especially after the court case fiasco causing a lot of finabcial problems - i.e Power said it cost £800k! . We've signed previous loanees before - so who is to say 1, 2 or all 4 don't sign on next season to add to the core? . As others have pointe dout perm transfers often come and go in 12 months - so are thet really any differen tto loans? London Red
  • Score: 6

12:38pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Red till Dead says...

London Red wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Rumour or no rumour we are embarrassingly short of putting out even a makeshift side let alone a first choice one. Whilst understanding the need to be sustainable and cut our cloth accordingly where are there any signs of ambition? How are we going to progress and develop a team capable of challenging for promotion when we are constantly relying on loanees from premiership outfits and face the prospect of losing what few players we have who could form the nucleus of a decent squad. On reflection I'm glad I didn't shell out for a season ticket because the challenge is even greater than it was last season. I hope Cooper & Power can demonstrate that, that will not be the case.
Jock isn't the ambition shown by not cashing in on the crown jewels?
.
£800k in for Nathan and Luongo would have happened before - but we have stood firm!
.
That also sends out a message on the others like Wes and Louis
.
The core of the team is there and we just need to add to it - this was always going to take time - especially after the court case fiasco causing a lot of finabcial problems - i.e Power said it cost £800k!
.
We've signed previous loanees before - so who is to say 1, 2 or all 4 don't sign on next season to add to the core?
.
As others have pointe dout perm transfers often come and go in 12 months - so are thet really any differen tto loans?
Of course perms are different to loans,as if we have a permanent player like luongo we don't have to sell and if we did it would be for silly money as mc and lp keep saying,it also adds stability to the team and we also can end up with an handsome transfer fee unlike loans that can be called back to there parent clubs at any time.im not saying I don't like loans as I do,you only have to look at Pritchard to see how they benefit us,it's just when there gone after a few months it leaves a big hole to fill.perms are here for the length of there contract unless a silly offer or the club suggests otherwise,you would only have to look at our back line that will probably include 2 loans in js and the lad from Liverpool which I would be very happy with by the way,great for the short term but leaves a gaping hole and an unstable back line next season,that's not stability in an area where you should build a solid foundation and should have more perms than loans.coyr's
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Rumour or no rumour we are embarrassingly short of putting out even a makeshift side let alone a first choice one. Whilst understanding the need to be sustainable and cut our cloth accordingly where are there any signs of ambition? How are we going to progress and develop a team capable of challenging for promotion when we are constantly relying on loanees from premiership outfits and face the prospect of losing what few players we have who could form the nucleus of a decent squad. On reflection I'm glad I didn't shell out for a season ticket because the challenge is even greater than it was last season. I hope Cooper & Power can demonstrate that, that will not be the case.[/p][/quote]Jock isn't the ambition shown by not cashing in on the crown jewels? . £800k in for Nathan and Luongo would have happened before - but we have stood firm! . That also sends out a message on the others like Wes and Louis . The core of the team is there and we just need to add to it - this was always going to take time - especially after the court case fiasco causing a lot of finabcial problems - i.e Power said it cost £800k! . We've signed previous loanees before - so who is to say 1, 2 or all 4 don't sign on next season to add to the core? . As others have pointe dout perm transfers often come and go in 12 months - so are thet really any differen tto loans?[/p][/quote]Of course perms are different to loans,as if we have a permanent player like luongo we don't have to sell and if we did it would be for silly money as mc and lp keep saying,it also adds stability to the team and we also can end up with an handsome transfer fee unlike loans that can be called back to there parent clubs at any time.im not saying I don't like loans as I do,you only have to look at Pritchard to see how they benefit us,it's just when there gone after a few months it leaves a big hole to fill.perms are here for the length of there contract unless a silly offer or the club suggests otherwise,you would only have to look at our back line that will probably include 2 loans in js and the lad from Liverpool which I would be very happy with by the way,great for the short term but leaves a gaping hole and an unstable back line next season,that's not stability in an area where you should build a solid foundation and should have more perms than loans.coyr's Red till Dead
  • Score: 2

1:31pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Swindon1984 says...

Red till Dead wrote:
London Red wrote:
The Jockster wrote: Rumour or no rumour we are embarrassingly short of putting out even a makeshift side let alone a first choice one. Whilst understanding the need to be sustainable and cut our cloth accordingly where are there any signs of ambition? How are we going to progress and develop a team capable of challenging for promotion when we are constantly relying on loanees from premiership outfits and face the prospect of losing what few players we have who could form the nucleus of a decent squad. On reflection I'm glad I didn't shell out for a season ticket because the challenge is even greater than it was last season. I hope Cooper & Power can demonstrate that, that will not be the case.
Jock isn't the ambition shown by not cashing in on the crown jewels? . £800k in for Nathan and Luongo would have happened before - but we have stood firm! . That also sends out a message on the others like Wes and Louis . The core of the team is there and we just need to add to it - this was always going to take time - especially after the court case fiasco causing a lot of finabcial problems - i.e Power said it cost £800k! . We've signed previous loanees before - so who is to say 1, 2 or all 4 don't sign on next season to add to the core? . As others have pointe dout perm transfers often come and go in 12 months - so are thet really any differen tto loans?
Of course perms are different to loans,as if we have a permanent player like luongo we don't have to sell and if we did it would be for silly money as mc and lp keep saying,it also adds stability to the team and we also can end up with an handsome transfer fee unlike loans that can be called back to there parent clubs at any time.im not saying I don't like loans as I do,you only have to look at Pritchard to see how they benefit us,it's just when there gone after a few months it leaves a big hole to fill.perms are here for the length of there contract unless a silly offer or the club suggests otherwise,you would only have to look at our back line that will probably include 2 loans in js and the lad from Liverpool which I would be very happy with by the way,great for the short term but leaves a gaping hole and an unstable back line next season,that's not stability in an area where you should build a solid foundation and should have more perms than loans.coyr's
Agree, we will end up relying on loans to a point as we don't have massive clout to bring in new players, and they can do well for us as they have in the past, but imagine if all the players that took us to within touching distance of the play offs last season were perms and still here - sure we'd all be a lot more confident of getting on this season. Thinking what Brentford did, lost out in the play offs, kept their best players, added a few more and got promotion the following season.

That said it is what it is and the powers (no pun intended) that be are doing a reasonable job on a smallish budget from what I can see. Still looking forward to the season ahead, opening winner against Scunthorpe would be most welcome.
[quote][p][bold]Red till Dead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Rumour or no rumour we are embarrassingly short of putting out even a makeshift side let alone a first choice one. Whilst understanding the need to be sustainable and cut our cloth accordingly where are there any signs of ambition? How are we going to progress and develop a team capable of challenging for promotion when we are constantly relying on loanees from premiership outfits and face the prospect of losing what few players we have who could form the nucleus of a decent squad. On reflection I'm glad I didn't shell out for a season ticket because the challenge is even greater than it was last season. I hope Cooper & Power can demonstrate that, that will not be the case.[/p][/quote]Jock isn't the ambition shown by not cashing in on the crown jewels? . £800k in for Nathan and Luongo would have happened before - but we have stood firm! . That also sends out a message on the others like Wes and Louis . The core of the team is there and we just need to add to it - this was always going to take time - especially after the court case fiasco causing a lot of finabcial problems - i.e Power said it cost £800k! . We've signed previous loanees before - so who is to say 1, 2 or all 4 don't sign on next season to add to the core? . As others have pointe dout perm transfers often come and go in 12 months - so are thet really any differen tto loans?[/p][/quote]Of course perms are different to loans,as if we have a permanent player like luongo we don't have to sell and if we did it would be for silly money as mc and lp keep saying,it also adds stability to the team and we also can end up with an handsome transfer fee unlike loans that can be called back to there parent clubs at any time.im not saying I don't like loans as I do,you only have to look at Pritchard to see how they benefit us,it's just when there gone after a few months it leaves a big hole to fill.perms are here for the length of there contract unless a silly offer or the club suggests otherwise,you would only have to look at our back line that will probably include 2 loans in js and the lad from Liverpool which I would be very happy with by the way,great for the short term but leaves a gaping hole and an unstable back line next season,that's not stability in an area where you should build a solid foundation and should have more perms than loans.coyr's[/p][/quote]Agree, we will end up relying on loans to a point as we don't have massive clout to bring in new players, and they can do well for us as they have in the past, but imagine if all the players that took us to within touching distance of the play offs last season were perms and still here - sure we'd all be a lot more confident of getting on this season. Thinking what Brentford did, lost out in the play offs, kept their best players, added a few more and got promotion the following season. That said it is what it is and the powers (no pun intended) that be are doing a reasonable job on a smallish budget from what I can see. Still looking forward to the season ahead, opening winner against Scunthorpe would be most welcome. Swindon1984
  • Score: 6

2:20pm Mon 28 Jul 14

The Jockster says...

LR both '84 & RTD have nailed the point - yes loans like Stephens and Pritchard can be hugely beneficial but they are not perms so the club cannot build a team around them as a foundation for forming a promotion squad. You yourself make the point about our big four only moving for "silly money" and there's the nub. We simply have to keep the likes if Wes etc. to have any hope of building the foundations of a promotion challenging squad but if we fill up the remainder with predominantly loanees we're never ever going to do a Brentford who as 84 points out is an excellent example of retaining your best players and adding as needed to secure promotion.
Conversely I get the impression that Power and Cooper will be content to be a satellite testing area for potential Prem starlets without necessarily pushing for at least a play off spot, the former because it's a cheap finance option and the latter because it keeps him in a job that he wouldn't have anywhere else, I mean nobody is clamouring for his services are they?
What narks me is that if anyone raises a comment that appears to criticise C & P we get the "lucky to have a club to support" diatribe rammed down our throats for the umpteenth time - WE KNOW THAT ffs and have expressed our gratitude time and again but now some of us want to see some upward forward movement not the prospect of endless limbo that we seem to be facing.
I'm pretty sure that once again after Jedgate most fans will accept another season similar to last - when let's face it we blew a great chance of at least a playoff spot but try selling the same idea to the same fans for season 2015/16 and I'd doubt there'd be the same allegiance and fan loyalty.
LR both '84 & RTD have nailed the point - yes loans like Stephens and Pritchard can be hugely beneficial but they are not perms so the club cannot build a team around them as a foundation for forming a promotion squad. You yourself make the point about our big four only moving for "silly money" and there's the nub. We simply have to keep the likes if Wes etc. to have any hope of building the foundations of a promotion challenging squad but if we fill up the remainder with predominantly loanees we're never ever going to do a Brentford who as 84 points out is an excellent example of retaining your best players and adding as needed to secure promotion. Conversely I get the impression that Power and Cooper will be content to be a satellite testing area for potential Prem starlets without necessarily pushing for at least a play off spot, the former because it's a cheap finance option and the latter because it keeps him in a job that he wouldn't have anywhere else, I mean nobody is clamouring for his services are they? What narks me is that if anyone raises a comment that appears to criticise C & P we get the "lucky to have a club to support" diatribe rammed down our throats for the umpteenth time - WE KNOW THAT ffs and have expressed our gratitude time and again but now some of us want to see some upward forward movement not the prospect of endless limbo that we seem to be facing. I'm pretty sure that once again after Jedgate most fans will accept another season similar to last - when let's face it we blew a great chance of at least a playoff spot but try selling the same idea to the same fans for season 2015/16 and I'd doubt there'd be the same allegiance and fan loyalty. The Jockster
  • Score: 4

3:06pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Red till Dead says...

Swindon1984 wrote:
Red till Dead wrote:
London Red wrote:
The Jockster wrote: Rumour or no rumour we are embarrassingly short of putting out even a makeshift side let alone a first choice one. Whilst understanding the need to be sustainable and cut our cloth accordingly where are there any signs of ambition? How are we going to progress and develop a team capable of challenging for promotion when we are constantly relying on loanees from premiership outfits and face the prospect of losing what few players we have who could form the nucleus of a decent squad. On reflection I'm glad I didn't shell out for a season ticket because the challenge is even greater than it was last season. I hope Cooper & Power can demonstrate that, that will not be the case.
Jock isn't the ambition shown by not cashing in on the crown jewels? . £800k in for Nathan and Luongo would have happened before - but we have stood firm! . That also sends out a message on the others like Wes and Louis . The core of the team is there and we just need to add to it - this was always going to take time - especially after the court case fiasco causing a lot of finabcial problems - i.e Power said it cost £800k! . We've signed previous loanees before - so who is to say 1, 2 or all 4 don't sign on next season to add to the core? . As others have pointe dout perm transfers often come and go in 12 months - so are thet really any differen tto loans?
Of course perms are different to loans,as if we have a permanent player like luongo we don't have to sell and if we did it would be for silly money as mc and lp keep saying,it also adds stability to the team and we also can end up with an handsome transfer fee unlike loans that can be called back to there parent clubs at any time.im not saying I don't like loans as I do,you only have to look at Pritchard to see how they benefit us,it's just when there gone after a few months it leaves a big hole to fill.perms are here for the length of there contract unless a silly offer or the club suggests otherwise,you would only have to look at our back line that will probably include 2 loans in js and the lad from Liverpool which I would be very happy with by the way,great for the short term but leaves a gaping hole and an unstable back line next season,that's not stability in an area where you should build a solid foundation and should have more perms than loans.coyr's
Agree, we will end up relying on loans to a point as we don't have massive clout to bring in new players, and they can do well for us as they have in the past, but imagine if all the players that took us to within touching distance of the play offs last season were perms and still here - sure we'd all be a lot more confident of getting on this season. Thinking what Brentford did, lost out in the play offs, kept their best players, added a few more and got promotion the following season.

That said it is what it is and the powers (no pun intended) that be are doing a reasonable job on a smallish budget from what I can see. Still looking forward to the season ahead, opening winner against Scunthorpe would be most welcome.
Just think jock,if we are looking at js and the lad smith is it from Liverpool to fill in at the back,that is possibly 50% of our back line that needs replacing the following season,that's not stability ,also I didn't like mc comments on about we are trying to achieve the brand of football that will attract other clubs to buy our players,yes I know every team has to sell to survive unless you have a sugar daddy,but how about "we are trying to achieve the brand of football that will attract more supporters,enhance players careers as well as giving youth a chance and trying to gain promotion",now that sounds more attractive and positive,also I really feel we need some experience in the side,I feel cb and mid is a must,especially on those cold nights away on a boggy pitch,we will need these experience players to help the youngsters and to help mix it up a bit and give us a bit of steel,an experienced striker would be beneficial,someone who can hold the ball up and link play aswell as chip in with a few goals but that might be pushing the boat out a bit to much,still you can always hope,all the best for the coming season lads and going 1 better than last but at this moment in time I just can't see it.coyr's
[quote][p][bold]Swindon1984[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Red till Dead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Rumour or no rumour we are embarrassingly short of putting out even a makeshift side let alone a first choice one. Whilst understanding the need to be sustainable and cut our cloth accordingly where are there any signs of ambition? How are we going to progress and develop a team capable of challenging for promotion when we are constantly relying on loanees from premiership outfits and face the prospect of losing what few players we have who could form the nucleus of a decent squad. On reflection I'm glad I didn't shell out for a season ticket because the challenge is even greater than it was last season. I hope Cooper & Power can demonstrate that, that will not be the case.[/p][/quote]Jock isn't the ambition shown by not cashing in on the crown jewels? . £800k in for Nathan and Luongo would have happened before - but we have stood firm! . That also sends out a message on the others like Wes and Louis . The core of the team is there and we just need to add to it - this was always going to take time - especially after the court case fiasco causing a lot of finabcial problems - i.e Power said it cost £800k! . We've signed previous loanees before - so who is to say 1, 2 or all 4 don't sign on next season to add to the core? . As others have pointe dout perm transfers often come and go in 12 months - so are thet really any differen tto loans?[/p][/quote]Of course perms are different to loans,as if we have a permanent player like luongo we don't have to sell and if we did it would be for silly money as mc and lp keep saying,it also adds stability to the team and we also can end up with an handsome transfer fee unlike loans that can be called back to there parent clubs at any time.im not saying I don't like loans as I do,you only have to look at Pritchard to see how they benefit us,it's just when there gone after a few months it leaves a big hole to fill.perms are here for the length of there contract unless a silly offer or the club suggests otherwise,you would only have to look at our back line that will probably include 2 loans in js and the lad from Liverpool which I would be very happy with by the way,great for the short term but leaves a gaping hole and an unstable back line next season,that's not stability in an area where you should build a solid foundation and should have more perms than loans.coyr's[/p][/quote]Agree, we will end up relying on loans to a point as we don't have massive clout to bring in new players, and they can do well for us as they have in the past, but imagine if all the players that took us to within touching distance of the play offs last season were perms and still here - sure we'd all be a lot more confident of getting on this season. Thinking what Brentford did, lost out in the play offs, kept their best players, added a few more and got promotion the following season. That said it is what it is and the powers (no pun intended) that be are doing a reasonable job on a smallish budget from what I can see. Still looking forward to the season ahead, opening winner against Scunthorpe would be most welcome.[/p][/quote]Just think jock,if we are looking at js and the lad smith is it from Liverpool to fill in at the back,that is possibly 50% of our back line that needs replacing the following season,that's not stability ,also I didn't like mc comments on about we are trying to achieve the brand of football that will attract other clubs to buy our players,yes I know every team has to sell to survive unless you have a sugar daddy,but how about "we are trying to achieve the brand of football that will attract more supporters,enhance players careers as well as giving youth a chance and trying to gain promotion",now that sounds more attractive and positive,also I really feel we need some experience in the side,I feel cb and mid is a must,especially on those cold nights away on a boggy pitch,we will need these experience players to help the youngsters and to help mix it up a bit and give us a bit of steel,an experienced striker would be beneficial,someone who can hold the ball up and link play aswell as chip in with a few goals but that might be pushing the boat out a bit to much,still you can always hope,all the best for the coming season lads and going 1 better than last but at this moment in time I just can't see it.coyr's Red till Dead
  • Score: 5

3:17pm Mon 28 Jul 14

The Jockster says...

Spot on RTD
Spot on RTD The Jockster
  • Score: -1

5:11pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Swindon1984 says...

The Jockster wrote:
LR both '84 & RTD have nailed the point - yes loans like Stephens and Pritchard can be hugely beneficial but they are not perms so the club cannot build a team around them as a foundation for forming a promotion squad. You yourself make the point about our big four only moving for "silly money" and there's the nub. We simply have to keep the likes if Wes etc. to have any hope of building the foundations of a promotion challenging squad but if we fill up the remainder with predominantly loanees we're never ever going to do a Brentford who as 84 points out is an excellent example of retaining your best players and adding as needed to secure promotion. Conversely I get the impression that Power and Cooper will be content to be a satellite testing area for potential Prem starlets without necessarily pushing for at least a play off spot, the former because it's a cheap finance option and the latter because it keeps him in a job that he wouldn't have anywhere else, I mean nobody is clamouring for his services are they? What narks me is that if anyone raises a comment that appears to criticise C & P we get the "lucky to have a club to support" diatribe rammed down our throats for the umpteenth time - WE KNOW THAT ffs and have expressed our gratitude time and again but now some of us want to see some upward forward movement not the prospect of endless limbo that we seem to be facing. I'm pretty sure that once again after Jedgate most fans will accept another season similar to last - when let's face it we blew a great chance of at least a playoff spot but try selling the same idea to the same fans for season 2015/16 and I'd doubt there'd be the same allegiance and fan loyalty.
Cheers Jock - to be honest I'm thinking we have several years of mid table mediocrity ahead and have made peace with that - as you say though a season or so after steadying the ship and people will start to get restless - no-one's expecting promotion or trophies every year but we do at least have to see it as a possibility and something to work towards or there's little point in playing the game.

I'm definitely of the "lucky to have a club" brigade but also like to think we have some sort of plan for going forward beyond the Crewe model (i.e. sit in limbo, selling to survive). If this is the only option open to us due to lack of funds then that's the way it'll have to be, and I'm not saying other owners could do better on the same income, but there will come a time when that's not enough. Town fans are quick to show their dissatisfaction and although it's refreshing we have someone like Lee Power who seems to be honest and realistic of our chances, it's also a bit concerning that there's no talk of a plan going forward.
[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: LR both '84 & RTD have nailed the point - yes loans like Stephens and Pritchard can be hugely beneficial but they are not perms so the club cannot build a team around them as a foundation for forming a promotion squad. You yourself make the point about our big four only moving for "silly money" and there's the nub. We simply have to keep the likes if Wes etc. to have any hope of building the foundations of a promotion challenging squad but if we fill up the remainder with predominantly loanees we're never ever going to do a Brentford who as 84 points out is an excellent example of retaining your best players and adding as needed to secure promotion. Conversely I get the impression that Power and Cooper will be content to be a satellite testing area for potential Prem starlets without necessarily pushing for at least a play off spot, the former because it's a cheap finance option and the latter because it keeps him in a job that he wouldn't have anywhere else, I mean nobody is clamouring for his services are they? What narks me is that if anyone raises a comment that appears to criticise C & P we get the "lucky to have a club to support" diatribe rammed down our throats for the umpteenth time - WE KNOW THAT ffs and have expressed our gratitude time and again but now some of us want to see some upward forward movement not the prospect of endless limbo that we seem to be facing. I'm pretty sure that once again after Jedgate most fans will accept another season similar to last - when let's face it we blew a great chance of at least a playoff spot but try selling the same idea to the same fans for season 2015/16 and I'd doubt there'd be the same allegiance and fan loyalty.[/p][/quote]Cheers Jock - to be honest I'm thinking we have several years of mid table mediocrity ahead and have made peace with that - as you say though a season or so after steadying the ship and people will start to get restless - no-one's expecting promotion or trophies every year but we do at least have to see it as a possibility and something to work towards or there's little point in playing the game. I'm definitely of the "lucky to have a club" brigade but also like to think we have some sort of plan for going forward beyond the Crewe model (i.e. sit in limbo, selling to survive). If this is the only option open to us due to lack of funds then that's the way it'll have to be, and I'm not saying other owners could do better on the same income, but there will come a time when that's not enough. Town fans are quick to show their dissatisfaction and although it's refreshing we have someone like Lee Power who seems to be honest and realistic of our chances, it's also a bit concerning that there's no talk of a plan going forward. Swindon1984
  • Score: -1

5:36pm Mon 28 Jul 14

you gots ta be kidding me says...

I could accept mid table mediocracy if I didn't have to listen to Cooper after very game
I could accept mid table mediocracy if I didn't have to listen to Cooper after very game you gots ta be kidding me
  • Score: -6

5:44pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Oxon-Red says...

A loanee that doesn't work out can be returned with little cost. A permanent signing that doesn't work out is potentially paid for 2-3 years.

Permanent signings are the preferred option for me but seen several that have cost us in the past.

Works both ways IMO.

COYMR
A loanee that doesn't work out can be returned with little cost. A permanent signing that doesn't work out is potentially paid for 2-3 years. Permanent signings are the preferred option for me but seen several that have cost us in the past. Works both ways IMO. COYMR Oxon-Red
  • Score: 5

7:12pm Mon 28 Jul 14

The Jockster says...

Swindon1984 wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
LR both '84 & RTD have nailed the point - yes loans like Stephens and Pritchard can be hugely beneficial but they are not perms so the club cannot build a team around them as a foundation for forming a promotion squad. You yourself make the point about our big four only moving for "silly money" and there's the nub. We simply have to keep the likes if Wes etc. to have any hope of building the foundations of a promotion challenging squad but if we fill up the remainder with predominantly loanees we're never ever going to do a Brentford who as 84 points out is an excellent example of retaining your best players and adding as needed to secure promotion. Conversely I get the impression that Power and Cooper will be content to be a satellite testing area for potential Prem starlets without necessarily pushing for at least a play off spot, the former because it's a cheap finance option and the latter because it keeps him in a job that he wouldn't have anywhere else, I mean nobody is clamouring for his services are they? What narks me is that if anyone raises a comment that appears to criticise C & P we get the "lucky to have a club to support" diatribe rammed down our throats for the umpteenth time - WE KNOW THAT ffs and have expressed our gratitude time and again but now some of us want to see some upward forward movement not the prospect of endless limbo that we seem to be facing. I'm pretty sure that once again after Jedgate most fans will accept another season similar to last - when let's face it we blew a great chance of at least a playoff spot but try selling the same idea to the same fans for season 2015/16 and I'd doubt there'd be the same allegiance and fan loyalty.
Cheers Jock - to be honest I'm thinking we have several years of mid table mediocrity ahead and have made peace with that - as you say though a season or so after steadying the ship and people will start to get restless - no-one's expecting promotion or trophies every year but we do at least have to see it as a possibility and something to work towards or there's little point in playing the game.

I'm definitely of the "lucky to have a club" brigade but also like to think we have some sort of plan for going forward beyond the Crewe model (i.e. sit in limbo, selling to survive). If this is the only option open to us due to lack of funds then that's the way it'll have to be, and I'm not saying other owners could do better on the same income, but there will come a time when that's not enough. Town fans are quick to show their dissatisfaction and although it's refreshing we have someone like Lee Power who seems to be honest and realistic of our chances, it's also a bit concerning that there's no talk of a plan going forward.
'84 the problem I have and other older posters I suspect is that they might not be able to face the prospect of "several seasons of mediocrity" as you term it, with the
very real prospect of some of those seasons possibly being in L2. That's why the Pdc era (leaving aside all the inevitable fall out) was so exciting because it brought back a taste of former glories, cup runs and a real feeling that after years in the doldrums we were in the up, but now we're back there without any real prospects. Take the cups (ignoring the JPT), if we make the 2nd rd of either the FA/league cups that will be seen as a cup run which pales into insignificance compared to past campaigns.
I think you've summed it up completely when you talk of no plan going forward. I believe most fans would be happy with sustainable Championship football but we appear to be a long way from that at the moment.
[quote][p][bold]Swindon1984[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: LR both '84 & RTD have nailed the point - yes loans like Stephens and Pritchard can be hugely beneficial but they are not perms so the club cannot build a team around them as a foundation for forming a promotion squad. You yourself make the point about our big four only moving for "silly money" and there's the nub. We simply have to keep the likes if Wes etc. to have any hope of building the foundations of a promotion challenging squad but if we fill up the remainder with predominantly loanees we're never ever going to do a Brentford who as 84 points out is an excellent example of retaining your best players and adding as needed to secure promotion. Conversely I get the impression that Power and Cooper will be content to be a satellite testing area for potential Prem starlets without necessarily pushing for at least a play off spot, the former because it's a cheap finance option and the latter because it keeps him in a job that he wouldn't have anywhere else, I mean nobody is clamouring for his services are they? What narks me is that if anyone raises a comment that appears to criticise C & P we get the "lucky to have a club to support" diatribe rammed down our throats for the umpteenth time - WE KNOW THAT ffs and have expressed our gratitude time and again but now some of us want to see some upward forward movement not the prospect of endless limbo that we seem to be facing. I'm pretty sure that once again after Jedgate most fans will accept another season similar to last - when let's face it we blew a great chance of at least a playoff spot but try selling the same idea to the same fans for season 2015/16 and I'd doubt there'd be the same allegiance and fan loyalty.[/p][/quote]Cheers Jock - to be honest I'm thinking we have several years of mid table mediocrity ahead and have made peace with that - as you say though a season or so after steadying the ship and people will start to get restless - no-one's expecting promotion or trophies every year but we do at least have to see it as a possibility and something to work towards or there's little point in playing the game. I'm definitely of the "lucky to have a club" brigade but also like to think we have some sort of plan for going forward beyond the Crewe model (i.e. sit in limbo, selling to survive). If this is the only option open to us due to lack of funds then that's the way it'll have to be, and I'm not saying other owners could do better on the same income, but there will come a time when that's not enough. Town fans are quick to show their dissatisfaction and although it's refreshing we have someone like Lee Power who seems to be honest and realistic of our chances, it's also a bit concerning that there's no talk of a plan going forward.[/p][/quote]'84 the problem I have and other older posters I suspect is that they might not be able to face the prospect of "several seasons of mediocrity" as you term it, with the very real prospect of some of those seasons possibly being in L2. That's why the Pdc era (leaving aside all the inevitable fall out) was so exciting because it brought back a taste of former glories, cup runs and a real feeling that after years in the doldrums we were in the up, but now we're back there without any real prospects. Take the cups (ignoring the JPT), if we make the 2nd rd of either the FA/league cups that will be seen as a cup run which pales into insignificance compared to past campaigns. I think you've summed it up completely when you talk of no plan going forward. I believe most fans would be happy with sustainable Championship football but we appear to be a long way from that at the moment. The Jockster
  • Score: -1

8:05pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Di kanny oh says...

Oxon-Red wrote:
A loanee that doesn't work out can be returned with little cost. A permanent signing that doesn't work out is potentially paid for 2-3 years.

Permanent signings are the preferred option for me but seen several that have cost us in the past.

Works both ways IMO.

COYMR
Good post Oxen and my thoughts also, just look at Henville we paid good money for a cripple got stiffed by Exeter big time and after paying him big wages to sit in the stands for most of his contract he then says thanks by clearing off now that is loyalty of the highest order. Navaro, Agombar, Luke Rooney, Pericard, Tossevi, Easyjet, Itiku, Rias, all come to mind to name but a few.
[quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote: A loanee that doesn't work out can be returned with little cost. A permanent signing that doesn't work out is potentially paid for 2-3 years. Permanent signings are the preferred option for me but seen several that have cost us in the past. Works both ways IMO. COYMR[/p][/quote]Good post Oxen and my thoughts also, just look at Henville we paid good money for a cripple got stiffed by Exeter big time and after paying him big wages to sit in the stands for most of his contract he then says thanks by clearing off now that is loyalty of the highest order. Navaro, Agombar, Luke Rooney, Pericard, Tossevi, Easyjet, Itiku, Rias, all come to mind to name but a few. Di kanny oh
  • Score: 2

8:46pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Oi Den! says...

Chaps, surely the fear of failure is no justification for not constructing your own football team? Managers stand or fall by their eye for a player, their nous in the transfer market and their motivation and coaching skills. That's the way it should always be. Loans should be peripheral only.
Chaps, surely the fear of failure is no justification for not constructing your own football team? Managers stand or fall by their eye for a player, their nous in the transfer market and their motivation and coaching skills. That's the way it should always be. Loans should be peripheral only. Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

8:51pm Mon 28 Jul 14

The Jockster says...

Exactly Den, hence mine and 84's reference to Brentford as a perfect example without being predominantly reliant on loans.
Exactly Den, hence mine and 84's reference to Brentford as a perfect example without being predominantly reliant on loans. The Jockster
  • Score: 0

9:01pm Mon 28 Jul 14

ciclosporindorset says...

The stfc pipeline has ben frozen for years. When youngsters see the club is a good place to be, as in the academy, the product will begin to flourish and there will be less need for loanees from elsewhere such as the premiership at 20 and 21. LP needs to replace the missing product at that age until this happens. Maybe if we get Brad Smith, next year Maty Jones will be an option, although I suspect its 2 years and then only if he continues to develop. Good grief, you have to start somewhere. Its a very different kind of revolution to the PDC era, but a revolution nonetheless.
The stfc pipeline has ben frozen for years. When youngsters see the club is a good place to be, as in the academy, the product will begin to flourish and there will be less need for loanees from elsewhere such as the premiership at 20 and 21. LP needs to replace the missing product at that age until this happens. Maybe if we get Brad Smith, next year Maty Jones will be an option, although I suspect its 2 years and then only if he continues to develop. Good grief, you have to start somewhere. Its a very different kind of revolution to the PDC era, but a revolution nonetheless. ciclosporindorset
  • Score: -1

9:47pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Di kanny oh says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Chaps, surely the fear of failure is no justification for not constructing your own football team? Managers stand or fall by their eye for a player, their nous in the transfer market and their motivation and coaching skills. That's the way it should always be. Loans should be peripheral only.
Yes agree Den but with our luck last few years we have had some right old duds.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: Chaps, surely the fear of failure is no justification for not constructing your own football team? Managers stand or fall by their eye for a player, their nous in the transfer market and their motivation and coaching skills. That's the way it should always be. Loans should be peripheral only.[/p][/quote]Yes agree Den but with our luck last few years we have had some right old duds. Di kanny oh
  • Score: 0

10:11pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Oi Den! says...

ciclosporindorset wrote:
The stfc pipeline has ben frozen for years. When youngsters see the club is a good place to be, as in the academy, the product will begin to flourish and there will be less need for loanees from elsewhere such as the premiership at 20 and 21. LP needs to replace the missing product at that age until this happens. Maybe if we get Brad Smith, next year Maty Jones will be an option, although I suspect its 2 years and then only if he continues to develop. Good grief, you have to start somewhere. Its a very different kind of revolution to the PDC era, but a revolution nonetheless.
Not sure how that change will come about ciclo. The kids we've had from Spurs in the last couple of seasons should never have been on the books of a Premier League club. They should have been working their way up to whatever their level is (and that level is probably not Premier League for any of them). The way that organisation now distorts the game in this country is scandalous. And of course there is no shortage starstruck kids and their parents who are happy to be part of it all, despite the fact that most of them will end up looking for a club much lower down the scale. Nothing the Town can do is ever going to change that.
[quote][p][bold]ciclosporindorset[/bold] wrote: The stfc pipeline has ben frozen for years. When youngsters see the club is a good place to be, as in the academy, the product will begin to flourish and there will be less need for loanees from elsewhere such as the premiership at 20 and 21. LP needs to replace the missing product at that age until this happens. Maybe if we get Brad Smith, next year Maty Jones will be an option, although I suspect its 2 years and then only if he continues to develop. Good grief, you have to start somewhere. Its a very different kind of revolution to the PDC era, but a revolution nonetheless.[/p][/quote]Not sure how that change will come about ciclo. The kids we've had from Spurs in the last couple of seasons should never have been on the books of a Premier League club. They should have been working their way up to whatever their level is (and that level is probably not Premier League for any of them). The way that organisation now distorts the game in this country is scandalous. And of course there is no shortage starstruck kids and their parents who are happy to be part of it all, despite the fact that most of them will end up looking for a club much lower down the scale. Nothing the Town can do is ever going to change that. Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

10:23pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Oi Den! says...

Di kanny oh wrote:
Oxon-Red wrote:
A loanee that doesn't work out can be returned with little cost. A permanent signing that doesn't work out is potentially paid for 2-3 years.

Permanent signings are the preferred option for me but seen several that have cost us in the past.

Works both ways IMO.

COYMR
Good post Oxen and my thoughts also, just look at Henville we paid good money for a cripple got stiffed by Exeter big time and after paying him big wages to sit in the stands for most of his contract he then says thanks by clearing off now that is loyalty of the highest order. Navaro, Agombar, Luke Rooney, Pericard, Tossevi, Easyjet, Itiku, Rias, all come to mind to name but a few.
Simply managerial c0ck-ups Mike. That's of course with the exception of Agombar, who was just one element of McCrory's shafting of the club. I wouldn't be surprised if having that person foisted on him was one of the main reasons Kevin MacDonald threw in the towel.
[quote][p][bold]Di kanny oh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote: A loanee that doesn't work out can be returned with little cost. A permanent signing that doesn't work out is potentially paid for 2-3 years. Permanent signings are the preferred option for me but seen several that have cost us in the past. Works both ways IMO. COYMR[/p][/quote]Good post Oxen and my thoughts also, just look at Henville we paid good money for a cripple got stiffed by Exeter big time and after paying him big wages to sit in the stands for most of his contract he then says thanks by clearing off now that is loyalty of the highest order. Navaro, Agombar, Luke Rooney, Pericard, Tossevi, Easyjet, Itiku, Rias, all come to mind to name but a few.[/p][/quote]Simply managerial c0ck-ups Mike. That's of course with the exception of Agombar, who was just one element of McCrory's shafting of the club. I wouldn't be surprised if having that person foisted on him was one of the main reasons Kevin MacDonald threw in the towel. Oi Den!
  • Score: 1

10:47pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Di kanny oh says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Di kanny oh wrote:
Oxon-Red wrote:
A loanee that doesn't work out can be returned with little cost. A permanent signing that doesn't work out is potentially paid for 2-3 years.

Permanent signings are the preferred option for me but seen several that have cost us in the past.

Works both ways IMO.

COYMR
Good post Oxen and my thoughts also, just look at Henville we paid good money for a cripple got stiffed by Exeter big time and after paying him big wages to sit in the stands for most of his contract he then says thanks by clearing off now that is loyalty of the highest order. Navaro, Agombar, Luke Rooney, Pericard, Tossevi, Easyjet, Itiku, Rias, all come to mind to name but a few.
Simply managerial c0ck-ups Mike. That's of course with the exception of Agombar, who was just one element of McCrory's shafting of the club. I wouldn't be surprised if having that person foisted on him was one of the main reasons Kevin MacDonald threw in the towel.
Actually that is a fair point Den, MacDonald had enough all of a sudden when Jeds best mate wanted his son given a deal at STFC and got a contract which was probably totally against all managerial principles and so Mac called it a day. Jeds Circus had begun.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Di kanny oh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote: A loanee that doesn't work out can be returned with little cost. A permanent signing that doesn't work out is potentially paid for 2-3 years. Permanent signings are the preferred option for me but seen several that have cost us in the past. Works both ways IMO. COYMR[/p][/quote]Good post Oxen and my thoughts also, just look at Henville we paid good money for a cripple got stiffed by Exeter big time and after paying him big wages to sit in the stands for most of his contract he then says thanks by clearing off now that is loyalty of the highest order. Navaro, Agombar, Luke Rooney, Pericard, Tossevi, Easyjet, Itiku, Rias, all come to mind to name but a few.[/p][/quote]Simply managerial c0ck-ups Mike. That's of course with the exception of Agombar, who was just one element of McCrory's shafting of the club. I wouldn't be surprised if having that person foisted on him was one of the main reasons Kevin MacDonald threw in the towel.[/p][/quote]Actually that is a fair point Den, MacDonald had enough all of a sudden when Jeds best mate wanted his son given a deal at STFC and got a contract which was probably totally against all managerial principles and so Mac called it a day. Jeds Circus had begun. Di kanny oh
  • Score: 1

11:43pm Mon 28 Jul 14

House with no name says...

Relegation Season and the excuses have already started!
Relegation Season and the excuses have already started! House with no name
  • Score: 0

11:59pm Mon 28 Jul 14

London Red says...

The Jockster wrote:
Exactly Den, hence mine and 84's reference to Brentford as a perfect example without being predominantly reliant on loans.
You sure about that?
.
Brentford were full of loans!
.
Like us they did sign some on perm - Bidwell, Forshaw and Judge but still have gaps after loanees departed - where is Saville, Fillo and Trotta now?
.
Also what about Akpom, McAleny, Tiexeira, Harris, Nugent and Taylor who all played on loan at Brentford last season
[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Exactly Den, hence mine and 84's reference to Brentford as a perfect example without being predominantly reliant on loans.[/p][/quote]You sure about that? . Brentford were full of loans! . Like us they did sign some on perm - Bidwell, Forshaw and Judge but still have gaps after loanees departed - where is Saville, Fillo and Trotta now? . Also what about Akpom, McAleny, Tiexeira, Harris, Nugent and Taylor who all played on loan at Brentford last season London Red
  • Score: 0

12:12am Tue 29 Jul 14

The Jockster says...

LR I bow to your greater knowledge re Brentford and their loanees but isn't the key point that they kept the likes of Donaldson etc after their play off loss thus giving them a solid basis to go one better the next time - we need to ensure we at the very least retain our marketable four - not to gain promotion but to survive and L1 this year looks a tougher prospect than last.
LR I bow to your greater knowledge re Brentford and their loanees but isn't the key point that they kept the likes of Donaldson etc after their play off loss thus giving them a solid basis to go one better the next time - we need to ensure we at the very least retain our marketable four - not to gain promotion but to survive and L1 this year looks a tougher prospect than last. The Jockster
  • Score: 0

6:59am Tue 29 Jul 14

London Red says...

It's also the point that they spent vast amounts of money - their manager revealed they had the 4th largest budget and their top earner was on £4.5k a week
.
When you think we had Wolves and Bristol coming down with playing budgets of over £15m in the Championship you can see potentially how much their's was
.
We never even had that under Black and PdC
.
Yes it would be lovely to be able to "do a Brentford" but we are simply not able to
.
Also that route is what should of / did in 2010/11 and look how that panned out?
.
Yes I would have preferred a signing like Ranger or Luongo this summer - but obviously those type of deals are not available
.
I would rather have 4 loans and keep the core here like we are - as that way we have a base to build from
.
Just think we could be Saints who have sold everyone or Blackpool who have 9 players and no Keeper - it's not that bad really!
It's also the point that they spent vast amounts of money - their manager revealed they had the 4th largest budget and their top earner was on £4.5k a week . When you think we had Wolves and Bristol coming down with playing budgets of over £15m in the Championship you can see potentially how much their's was . We never even had that under Black and PdC . Yes it would be lovely to be able to "do a Brentford" but we are simply not able to . Also that route is what should of / did in 2010/11 and look how that panned out? . Yes I would have preferred a signing like Ranger or Luongo this summer - but obviously those type of deals are not available . I would rather have 4 loans and keep the core here like we are - as that way we have a base to build from . Just think we could be Saints who have sold everyone or Blackpool who have 9 players and no Keeper - it's not that bad really! London Red
  • Score: -1

9:02am Tue 29 Jul 14

Swindon1984 says...

The Jockster wrote:
Swindon1984 wrote:
The Jockster wrote: LR both '84 & RTD have nailed the point - yes loans like Stephens and Pritchard can be hugely beneficial but they are not perms so the club cannot build a team around them as a foundation for forming a promotion squad. You yourself make the point about our big four only moving for "silly money" and there's the nub. We simply have to keep the likes if Wes etc. to have any hope of building the foundations of a promotion challenging squad but if we fill up the remainder with predominantly loanees we're never ever going to do a Brentford who as 84 points out is an excellent example of retaining your best players and adding as needed to secure promotion. Conversely I get the impression that Power and Cooper will be content to be a satellite testing area for potential Prem starlets without necessarily pushing for at least a play off spot, the former because it's a cheap finance option and the latter because it keeps him in a job that he wouldn't have anywhere else, I mean nobody is clamouring for his services are they? What narks me is that if anyone raises a comment that appears to criticise C & P we get the "lucky to have a club to support" diatribe rammed down our throats for the umpteenth time - WE KNOW THAT ffs and have expressed our gratitude time and again but now some of us want to see some upward forward movement not the prospect of endless limbo that we seem to be facing. I'm pretty sure that once again after Jedgate most fans will accept another season similar to last - when let's face it we blew a great chance of at least a playoff spot but try selling the same idea to the same fans for season 2015/16 and I'd doubt there'd be the same allegiance and fan loyalty.
Cheers Jock - to be honest I'm thinking we have several years of mid table mediocrity ahead and have made peace with that - as you say though a season or so after steadying the ship and people will start to get restless - no-one's expecting promotion or trophies every year but we do at least have to see it as a possibility and something to work towards or there's little point in playing the game. I'm definitely of the "lucky to have a club" brigade but also like to think we have some sort of plan for going forward beyond the Crewe model (i.e. sit in limbo, selling to survive). If this is the only option open to us due to lack of funds then that's the way it'll have to be, and I'm not saying other owners could do better on the same income, but there will come a time when that's not enough. Town fans are quick to show their dissatisfaction and although it's refreshing we have someone like Lee Power who seems to be honest and realistic of our chances, it's also a bit concerning that there's no talk of a plan going forward.
'84 the problem I have and other older posters I suspect is that they might not be able to face the prospect of "several seasons of mediocrity" as you term it, with the very real prospect of some of those seasons possibly being in L2. That's why the Pdc era (leaving aside all the inevitable fall out) was so exciting because it brought back a taste of former glories, cup runs and a real feeling that after years in the doldrums we were in the up, but now we're back there without any real prospects. Take the cups (ignoring the JPT), if we make the 2nd rd of either the FA/league cups that will be seen as a cup run which pales into insignificance compared to past campaigns. I think you've summed it up completely when you talk of no plan going forward. I believe most fans would be happy with sustainable Championship football but we appear to be a long way from that at the moment.
I'd go along with that - I'd personally be happy with us sitting mid table in the championship for the foreseeable future but the gap is so big now that even if we were to get there (which looks a long way off) staying there would be a completely different story. Given the size of the club and attendances which I don't believe would be massive even in the championship (the uplift would largely be from bigger away followings) we'd need massive investment to get there and stay there - look at Yeovil and how they struggled. Bournemouth? Not so much, as they have a wealthy backer behind them (for now).

Just reckon that uninspiring as it may be, it's probably going to be survival first and anything else being a bonus going forward, and don't think anyone else coming in with a similar model would be able to do much better. The Leeds / Saints / Leicester / Forest / Derby's etc of this world have the attendances generating revenue to keep them in the Championship, and even they have had significant investment on top to keep them where they are (or progress in the case of a lucky few).

We're not a big club, we don't have big support given the size of the town and catchment area, and for that reason it would always take a big investor in this day and age to get us promotion. Money talks unfortunately, and bottom line we don't seem to have enough of it.

Then again, anything can happen over the course of a season, and I'm still trying to be optimistic of our chances. No point starting off convincing ourselves we're going to fail - if we do, we'll have failed before we start.
[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Swindon1984[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: LR both '84 & RTD have nailed the point - yes loans like Stephens and Pritchard can be hugely beneficial but they are not perms so the club cannot build a team around them as a foundation for forming a promotion squad. You yourself make the point about our big four only moving for "silly money" and there's the nub. We simply have to keep the likes if Wes etc. to have any hope of building the foundations of a promotion challenging squad but if we fill up the remainder with predominantly loanees we're never ever going to do a Brentford who as 84 points out is an excellent example of retaining your best players and adding as needed to secure promotion. Conversely I get the impression that Power and Cooper will be content to be a satellite testing area for potential Prem starlets without necessarily pushing for at least a play off spot, the former because it's a cheap finance option and the latter because it keeps him in a job that he wouldn't have anywhere else, I mean nobody is clamouring for his services are they? What narks me is that if anyone raises a comment that appears to criticise C & P we get the "lucky to have a club to support" diatribe rammed down our throats for the umpteenth time - WE KNOW THAT ffs and have expressed our gratitude time and again but now some of us want to see some upward forward movement not the prospect of endless limbo that we seem to be facing. I'm pretty sure that once again after Jedgate most fans will accept another season similar to last - when let's face it we blew a great chance of at least a playoff spot but try selling the same idea to the same fans for season 2015/16 and I'd doubt there'd be the same allegiance and fan loyalty.[/p][/quote]Cheers Jock - to be honest I'm thinking we have several years of mid table mediocrity ahead and have made peace with that - as you say though a season or so after steadying the ship and people will start to get restless - no-one's expecting promotion or trophies every year but we do at least have to see it as a possibility and something to work towards or there's little point in playing the game. I'm definitely of the "lucky to have a club" brigade but also like to think we have some sort of plan for going forward beyond the Crewe model (i.e. sit in limbo, selling to survive). If this is the only option open to us due to lack of funds then that's the way it'll have to be, and I'm not saying other owners could do better on the same income, but there will come a time when that's not enough. Town fans are quick to show their dissatisfaction and although it's refreshing we have someone like Lee Power who seems to be honest and realistic of our chances, it's also a bit concerning that there's no talk of a plan going forward.[/p][/quote]'84 the problem I have and other older posters I suspect is that they might not be able to face the prospect of "several seasons of mediocrity" as you term it, with the very real prospect of some of those seasons possibly being in L2. That's why the Pdc era (leaving aside all the inevitable fall out) was so exciting because it brought back a taste of former glories, cup runs and a real feeling that after years in the doldrums we were in the up, but now we're back there without any real prospects. Take the cups (ignoring the JPT), if we make the 2nd rd of either the FA/league cups that will be seen as a cup run which pales into insignificance compared to past campaigns. I think you've summed it up completely when you talk of no plan going forward. I believe most fans would be happy with sustainable Championship football but we appear to be a long way from that at the moment.[/p][/quote]I'd go along with that - I'd personally be happy with us sitting mid table in the championship for the foreseeable future but the gap is so big now that even if we were to get there (which looks a long way off) staying there would be a completely different story. Given the size of the club and attendances which I don't believe would be massive even in the championship (the uplift would largely be from bigger away followings) we'd need massive investment to get there and stay there - look at Yeovil and how they struggled. Bournemouth? Not so much, as they have a wealthy backer behind them (for now). Just reckon that uninspiring as it may be, it's probably going to be survival first and anything else being a bonus going forward, and don't think anyone else coming in with a similar model would be able to do much better. The Leeds / Saints / Leicester / Forest / Derby's etc of this world have the attendances generating revenue to keep them in the Championship, and even they have had significant investment on top to keep them where they are (or progress in the case of a lucky few). We're not a big club, we don't have big support given the size of the town and catchment area, and for that reason it would always take a big investor in this day and age to get us promotion. Money talks unfortunately, and bottom line we don't seem to have enough of it. Then again, anything can happen over the course of a season, and I'm still trying to be optimistic of our chances. No point starting off convincing ourselves we're going to fail - if we do, we'll have failed before we start. Swindon1984
  • Score: 1

12:23pm Tue 29 Jul 14

The Jockster says...

Good stuff '84 and a balanced view of where we are likely to be for some time to come - even if we don't really want to be!
Good stuff '84 and a balanced view of where we are likely to be for some time to come - even if we don't really want to be! The Jockster
  • Score: 1

11:03pm Wed 30 Jul 14

ciclosporindorset says...

Oi Den! wrote:
ciclosporindorset wrote:
The stfc pipeline has ben frozen for years. When youngsters see the club is a good place to be, as in the academy, the product will begin to flourish and there will be less need for loanees from elsewhere such as the premiership at 20 and 21. LP needs to replace the missing product at that age until this happens. Maybe if we get Brad Smith, next year Maty Jones will be an option, although I suspect its 2 years and then only if he continues to develop. Good grief, you have to start somewhere. Its a very different kind of revolution to the PDC era, but a revolution nonetheless.
Not sure how that change will come about ciclo. The kids we've had from Spurs in the last couple of seasons should never have been on the books of a Premier League club. They should have been working their way up to whatever their level is (and that level is probably not Premier League for any of them). The way that organisation now distorts the game in this country is scandalous. And of course there is no shortage starstruck kids and their parents who are happy to be part of it all, despite the fact that most of them will end up looking for a club much lower down the scale. Nothing the Town can do is ever going to change that.
Fair comment Den. I am less concerned about the wider PL issues and more so our club. My belief, right or wrong, is that the club want to draw a higher calibrefyouth and then keep and develop them to their best. This makes our club more marketable imo. It is a self fulfilling prophecy from there on that the calibre f our own players increases to the point that there's no need to rely on PL clubs - as the gap is then closed over a number of years. My beliefs are based on a lifetime of developing business through developing people and resulting in an attractive proposition to other newcomers. We could be the best club in the west while never being a PL club. Maybe that's what we can aim for, to be the top team in the west of England consistently for years to come. and sustainable. Jordan Turnbull would not maybe have gone away had the set up inspired the possibility of him staying.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ciclosporindorset[/bold] wrote: The stfc pipeline has ben frozen for years. When youngsters see the club is a good place to be, as in the academy, the product will begin to flourish and there will be less need for loanees from elsewhere such as the premiership at 20 and 21. LP needs to replace the missing product at that age until this happens. Maybe if we get Brad Smith, next year Maty Jones will be an option, although I suspect its 2 years and then only if he continues to develop. Good grief, you have to start somewhere. Its a very different kind of revolution to the PDC era, but a revolution nonetheless.[/p][/quote]Not sure how that change will come about ciclo. The kids we've had from Spurs in the last couple of seasons should never have been on the books of a Premier League club. They should have been working their way up to whatever their level is (and that level is probably not Premier League for any of them). The way that organisation now distorts the game in this country is scandalous. And of course there is no shortage starstruck kids and their parents who are happy to be part of it all, despite the fact that most of them will end up looking for a club much lower down the scale. Nothing the Town can do is ever going to change that.[/p][/quote]Fair comment Den. I am less concerned about the wider PL issues and more so our club. My belief, right or wrong, is that the club want to draw a higher calibrefyouth and then keep and develop them to their best. This makes our club more marketable imo. It is a self fulfilling prophecy from there on that the calibre f our own players increases to the point that there's no need to rely on PL clubs - as the gap is then closed over a number of years. My beliefs are based on a lifetime of developing business through developing people and resulting in an attractive proposition to other newcomers. We could be the best club in the west while never being a PL club. Maybe that's what we can aim for, to be the top team in the west of England consistently for years to come. and sustainable. Jordan Turnbull would not maybe have gone away had the set up inspired the possibility of him staying. ciclosporindorset
  • Score: 0

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