Patey the debt-buster (From Swindon Advertiser)

" If you’re going to get someone to invest in the club they need to know that that investment, their equity in the club will have first call if the club – as we hope – is successful. "


Difficult one this isn't it. We all want what is best for Swindon but playing Devil's Advocate I could see why Fitton et al may think that they invested first so why shouldn't they have first dibs if the club is successful. He may not think like that of course...

Thankfully I'm just a fan, and this is something for the holding company to sort. So I'll just concentrate on going to games and supporting the team :)

Hmm....am I being too pessimistic in thinking something doesn't smell right about events of the last week? Wray goes, new, very different bloke appointed and suddenly no focus on team, Paolo and promotion but rather talk of debt removal and need for new investors. All very important obviously but I wonder what Paolo makes of it - think he is focused on winning football matches and promotion not all this other stuff. Hope I 'm wrong but got a feeling this won't have a happy ending.

Now we're getting to the crux of the matter and it becomes evident (to those still wondering why Wray was swapped out) as to why this guy has been brought in.
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The club wants to move forward, Martin Arbib wants the club to become sustainable and return a profit too, interesting to see now what the reaction of the other parties involved will be.
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One thought, should Wray & Fitton decide to dig their heals in, (some may argue they are entitled to), how long before the very same fans that were bemoaning Wray's departure, start throwing mud at him?

fredi wrote:
Hmm....am I being too pessimistic in thinking something doesn't smell right about events of the last week? Wray goes, new, very different bloke appointed and suddenly no focus on team, Paolo and promotion but rather talk of debt removal and need for new investors. All very important obviously but I wonder what Paolo makes of it - think he is focused on winning football matches and promotion not all this other stuff. Hope I 'm wrong but got a feeling this won't have a happy ending.

You're being to pessimistic I think. Of course the focus will be on the new chairman and the issues behind his appointment.
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It would be very strange if all this was happening and no reasons or media reaction to those reasons took place.
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On the pitch things are fairly settled at the moment, we're 6th in league 1 whilst many believe we've yet to hit top gear. What's to worry about on that front at the moment?

It's a nice break from talking specifically about the embargo. But about the embargo, I don't want them to write off debts to free up more for the manager to be wasteful with. Also, this is a matter stroke from Patey. Putting the onus on Fitton and Wray to cancel their debts meaning some fans will turn on them if they don't.

A master stroke or the plain simple facts of the matter?

Now I'm really confused - first it was made tp appear Equity investments were allowed as part of the income bracket
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Then it was stripped out again and reverted back to just the revenue
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Now it is saying above writing off debt and obtaining new equity can help lift the embargo!
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Can the adver please clarify this once and for all!!
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Will new equity lift us out of the embargo or not?

fredi wrote:
Hmm....am I being too pessimistic in thinking something doesn't smell right about events of the last week? Wray goes, new, very different bloke appointed and suddenly no focus on team, Paolo and promotion but rather talk of debt removal and need for new investors. All very important obviously but I wonder what Paolo makes of it - think he is focused on winning football matches and promotion not all this other stuff. Hope I 'm wrong but got a feeling this won't have a happy ending.

As I said last week - there is only one reason you bring in a guy like Sir William...attracting 'new investment' means selling the club.
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Black's fortune of old was largely on paper and like most I'd be willing to bet that it is worth less than a third of what it was.
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I think STFC are safe and Fitton and Wray should take the swap to shares option IF they can afford to defer things.
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Aren't the 'loans' all repayable next season?...LR?...henc
e the need to get them off the books asap.
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I'd be surprised to see Black invest further funds even if we clear the loans but hope I'm wrong.

The amounts AF and JW are owed will be peanuts to the others as they have always been the money men
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Also it's not actually writing it off as it clearly says they could do an equity swap
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Then any future dividends or sale will provide them with a return
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Can the adver also clarify that when they talk of the debt they are talking about the full or majority of the £9.6m owed to the Holding Company / Directors?
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If so that will pretty much wipe out our negative equity

Loans get renewed all the time and they have changed in each account published
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2010 saw £1m to Sir Arbib but 2011 saw £500k to both him and Andrew Black
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Let's remember the loans are only £1m yet amounts owed to the Holding company as part of paying of the tax man, the cva, fighting the legal battles and covering on going losses is he biggest "debt" we have at over £8m
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This must be the part SWP is talking about - or at least a big chunk of it
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Now it sounds like the shareholders loaned money to that company who then used it to fund the club
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So what SWP wants is those loans converted to equity or written of (or a combo) so that debt goes and can be cancelled in the club
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STFC holdings can then recoup that swp by selling some of their 95% ownership to new investors
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Being private as we have seen at Arsenal that can be at any price deemed fit so could make some "return" there
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With the rest coming from future profits related to redevelopment and championship football

All we need now is a net-buster!

All sounds positive,the new chairman does talk the talk and players budget in place will not be cut so I guess Pdc will just need to manage and get on with it.
What worried me in the past was not the amount of money spent and invested in players but what was my concern what was wasted.
I guess we will know in time if the investors will agree to this plan.
Like all of us I feel worried a little bit that it may not pan out.
As to R/development at the CG, surely efforts should be made to buy the Ground from the SBC/?
I know this has been tried many many times and it's about time the Council just maybe thought about selling.
As for Pdc Embargo etc has taken a back seat,perhaps Pdc know's for once when to keep quiet

LR,

Good morning James, Well to be very honest, if you are confused.com by all of this, I'm totally bamboozled by it all. Clearity is rightly required.

Its all a bit hooky-cokey to me, in-out, in-out, all a bit very vague.

Did you notice ? his jacket didn't stay on for long did it ?

stfc2012 wrote:
It's a nice break from talking specifically about the embargo. But about the embargo, I don't want them to write off debts to free up more for the manager to be wasteful with. Also, this is a matter stroke from Patey. Putting the onus on Fitton and Wray to cancel their debts meaning some fans will turn on them if they don't.

It will be appalling if people turn on Fitton and Wray. Without those two (plus the other investors of course) we would have gone to the wall. Echoes of Sir Seton Wills. He might not have been wise in his choice of "advisor" but he kept the club alive - and look at the stick he got for wanting some of his money back.

Maybe the new jacket is part of a marketing ploy by SWP - get PdC to wear a bright red STFC jacket and then sell it in the club shop :0)
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Clarity for sure - Sam can you ask SWP or NW this question directly - does equity investment count towards lifting the embargo?
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If so you can see why PdC has made his comments as £170k is nothing to people worth over £500m - especially if it helps us to stay up near the top
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Since his comments we have lost Navarro and Thompson to injury - anymore and we could be totally screwed!!!!

WHO YOU GONNA CALL!! DEBT-BUSTER

London Red wrote:
Loans get renewed all the time and they have changed in each account published
.
2010 saw £1m to Sir Arbib but 2011 saw £500k to both him and Andrew Black
.
Let's remember the loans are only £1m yet amounts owed to the Holding company as part of paying of the tax man, the cva, fighting the legal battles and covering on going losses is he biggest "debt" we have at over £8m
.
This must be the part SWP is talking about - or at least a big chunk of it
.
Now it sounds like the shareholders loaned money to that company who then used it to fund the club
.
So what SWP wants is those loans converted to equity or written of (or a combo) so that debt goes and can be cancelled in the club
.
STFC holdings can then recoup that swp by selling some of their 95% ownership to new investors
.
Being private as we have seen at Arsenal that can be at any price deemed fit so could make some "return" there
.
With the rest coming from future profits related to redevelopment and championship football

It's all very Murky and as clear as Mud!tangled web of confusion,weaved to confuse!it time the football league,brought clarity to footballs backers and accounts!!!!!!!!!

London Red wrote:
Now I'm really confused - first it was made tp appear Equity investments were allowed as part of the income bracket
.
Then it was stripped out again and reverted back to just the revenue
.
Now it is saying above writing off debt and obtaining new equity can help lift the embargo!
.
Can the adver please clarify this once and for all!!
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Will new equity lift us out of the embargo or not?

It would be madness if it can. What is the point of having a having a financial fair play system that allows clubs to spend what they want if they receive their funding by way of share subscriptions rather than loans? I thought it all has to come through operating income. Or are the restrictions really designed to stop clubs getting into debt, rather than to prevent them buying their way to success? If so, then I can see why shares would be OK and loans not ( even though the share capital is still a liability of the company).
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If only somebody could give us a simple answer. Sir William?

London Red wrote:
Loans get renewed all the time and they have changed in each account published
.
2010 saw £1m to Sir Arbib but 2011 saw £500k to both him and Andrew Black
.
Let's remember the loans are only £1m yet amounts owed to the Holding company as part of paying of the tax man, the cva, fighting the legal battles and covering on going losses is he biggest "debt" we have at over £8m
.
This must be the part SWP is talking about - or at least a big chunk of it
.
Now it sounds like the shareholders loaned money to that company who then used it to fund the club
.
So what SWP wants is those loans converted to equity or written of (or a combo) so that debt goes and can be cancelled in the club
.
STFC holdings can then recoup that swp by selling some of their 95% ownership to new investors
.
Being private as we have seen at Arsenal that can be at any price deemed fit so could make some "return" there
.
With the rest coming from future profits related to redevelopment and championship football

I still struggle with the role os STFC Holdings...but thanks LR - I now get the terms under which the loans have been made....as you say I'm surprised so much is being made of these as I'd have expected it (as you confirm) to be a small element.
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Converting the loans to equity would make sense but only if it makes a significant difference....until we get the overall debt (£11 million?) halved surely there is no attraction to an investor?
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Do you know who STFC owes what to who?...I've never seen any of the published accounts so still wonder what Black will do about the main element as I doubt he can afford to write of 3 or 4 million nowadays.

Hopefully the ones who know what all this means have done their sums right and checked the legal implications, cos I ain't got a scoobie-doo what all this means to the likes of me.

Providing its legal and it does the club good - I'll go with the flow on this one.

LR,

I think you were there on Sat. I think Thompson and Alan Macca are going to be doubtful for tomorrow night. With Flint barred we are going to be very thin now. Devera and Troy will have to play.

heaven help us if we get any more injuries.

Quiet Monday morning at work so made a few phone calls and think I now understand wage cap. In league one clubs may spend 65% of their turnover on player budget. So if your total revenue is 1m, you can spend 650k on players. Reckon our turnover is about 5m so we could spend 3.25m on players. If money is put in to a club as equity that counts as turnover. If it goes in as debt it does not. So put simply, as long as money goes in as equity, for every 1m that is put in, 650k is allowed towards players. Hence why Bournemouth can spend millions on players with rubbish turnover - wealthy Russian putting in cash for equity. Guess the good news from this is presumably that not much money needs to be invested to clear embargo so long as it goes in as equity. Don't think reducing current debt has any impact on this, but must make the club more attractive to new investors.

As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround.

I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless.

But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

madterrier wrote:
As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround.

I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless.

But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

Terrier's hit the nail on the head!(you don't invest in a club!you Squander your money!)Football clubs are rich men's TOYS!If you ain't got the stake to lose,don't play the game!!!!!!!!!!

avo wrote:
A master stroke or the plain simple facts of the matter?

The latter my boy methinks!

Sir Don Rogers please.

I am amazed PDC was allowed to wear his new Jacket at all , I swear Simon Ferry actually passed to him once . I thought the 4th official would have made PDC put a visi vest on :0) , Very interesting times ahead , we took one step away from the small investors with the Fitton , Wray era , we now take the next leap into a proffessionally directed club . The future looks bright , the future is Rosey Red . COYR .

the don69 wrote:

madterrier wrote: As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround. I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless. But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

Terrier's hit the nail on the head!(you don't invest in a club!you Squander your money!)Football clubs are rich men's TOYS!If you ain't got the stake to lose,don't play the game!!!!!!!!!!

Don -Terrier certainly has, and as I alluded to a few days ago - a local media source implied to me that Sir MA wasn't happy about chucking more dosh in especially when there was virtually no prospect of recovering his initial investment because as Terrier & you rightly says when you pump money into a football club it's certainly a case of "wish me luck as you wave me goodbye" Cheerio off I go"

As regards Sir KillBill I'm warming to him after my initial reservations -he's certainly talking the talk and it remains to be seen whether he walks the walk! Time will tell!

London Red wrote:
Now I'm really confused - first it was made tp appear Equity investments were allowed as part of the income bracket
.
Then it was stripped out again and reverted back to just the revenue
.
Now it is saying above writing off debt and obtaining new equity can help lift the embargo!
.
Can the adver please clarify this once and for all!!
.
Will new equity lift us out of the embargo or not?

Don't understand either, equity investments are defiantly not allowed to count towards turn-over, the only thing that can count is sponsorship, bit I can't see why the club having outstanding loans would affect any possible deals. To me this is more to prepare the way to sell the club than much interest in the playing side. It would be nice to have an official club statement now to explain the situation.

Malkym wrote:

the don69 wrote:

madterrier wrote: As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround. I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless. But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

Terrier's hit the nail on the head!(you don't invest in a club!you Squander your money!)Football clubs are rich men's TOYS!If you ain't got the stake to lose,don't play the game!!!!!!!!!!

Don -Terrier certainly has, and as I alluded to a few days ago - a local media source implied to me that Sir MA wasn't happy about chucking more dosh in especially when there was virtually no prospect of recovering his initial investment because as Terrier & you rightly says when you pump money into a football club it's certainly a case of "wish me luck as you wave me goodbye" Cheerio off I go"

As regards Sir KillBill I'm warming to him after my initial reservations -he's certainly talking the talk and it remains to be seen whether he walks the walk! Time will tell!

Yes you could right,on Sir KillBill Malky?but we await Vol's 2 and 3!!!!!!!!!!!

Personally and I know Sam has tried to contact him I'd like to hear/see a detailed interview with Andrew Black.

He has eluded on twitter that he was obviously happy with the playing side but not at boardroom level. It would be lovely to know exactly what the problem's are? Is it the fact that we have a great programme but still don't market the club to the Town or others? Is it that they are not happy with how their investment as been spent?

Also we can't buy the ground off the council unless the trustees of the Goddard Estate give there say so. There is a restrictive covenant on all the land that it has to be used for sport. I'm very worried about his comment about another ground. I really hope we don't go down this route but fear we will.

Anyway Dear Mr Black please come on the Adver and give us your thoughts.

Chaps, I accept that putting money into a football club is usually akin to chucking it in to a bottomless pit. However, surely canny businessmen with no previous association with Swindon Town would be unlikely to part with large amounts of their readies without the likelihood of some return? I still believe that Fitton, Black, Arbib and Wray could foresee at least a chance of a decent return, probably related to the ground redevelopment or relocation (please no). And if I was either Fitton or Wray I would not be surrendering my money to people who had squeezed me out, rightly or wrongly. I am equally convinced that Sir William will be "selling" the club to potential interested parties with the same possible return in mind. These people will not have made their money by having a habit of giving it away.

mallorca wrote:
All sounds positive,the new chairman does talk the talk and players budget in place will not be cut so I guess Pdc will just need to manage and get on with it. What worried me in the past was not the amount of money spent and invested in players but what was my concern what was wasted. I guess we will know in time if the investors will agree to this plan. Like all of us I feel worried a little bit that it may not pan out. As to R/development at the CG, surely efforts should be made to buy the Ground from the SBC/? I know this has been tried many many times and it's about time the Council just maybe thought about selling. As for Pdc Embargo etc has taken a back seat,perhaps Pdc know's for once when to keep quiet

Believe this has been done to death before - there might be the chance of a long term lease but the bottom line is we will never own the land because it isn't the council's to sell - they are the custodians, nothing more.

Oh no, this really is like the previous boards. Trying to force ex-chairmen into letting go of their assetts on the cheap by holding the footballing side to randsom. I do not like the sound of this! We won't invest until they let it go on the cheap. The first comments from our new Chairman are not reassuring ones....

What about community, continuity, reassurance?

I know money has been invested and I am grateful our club was saved but they did that as a team of investors. To now push out some of those that saved us and look for investment, or buy out, from the middle east rings of looking for a return on the cash, and I'm sure the hope is for a profit

Please please please prove me wrong, I love this club too much to see us go through another set of owners after a quick buck

Swindon1984 wrote:

mallorca wrote:
All sounds positive,the new chairman does talk the talk and players budget in place will not be cut so I guess Pdc will just need to manage and get on with it. What worried me in the past was not the amount of money spent and invested in players but what was my concern what was wasted. I guess we will know in time if the investors will agree to this plan. Like all of us I feel worried a little bit that it may not pan out. As to R/development at the CG, surely efforts should be made to buy the Ground from the SBC/? I know this has been tried many many times and it's about time the Council just maybe thought about selling. As for Pdc Embargo etc has taken a back seat,perhaps Pdc know's for once when to keep quiet

Believe this has been done to death before - there might be the chance of a long term lease but the bottom line is we will never own the land because it isn't the council's to sell - they are the custodians, nothing more.

Hence why I think a new ground will be on the agenda, There will never be enough investment potential in the CG as Swindon will never own it. A new ground will make us far more investable.

the don69 wrote:

Malkym wrote:

the don69 wrote:

madterrier wrote: As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround. I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless. But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

Terrier's hit the nail on the head!(you don't invest in a club!you Squander your money!)Football clubs are rich men's TOYS!If you ain't got the stake to lose,don't play the game!!!!!!!!!!

Don -Terrier certainly has, and as I alluded to a few days ago - a local media source implied to me that Sir MA wasn't happy about chucking more dosh in especially when there was virtually no prospect of recovering his initial investment because as Terrier & you rightly says when you pump money into a football club it's certainly a case of "wish me luck as you wave me goodbye" Cheerio off I go"

As regards Sir KillBill I'm warming to him after my initial reservations -he's certainly talking the talk and it remains to be seen whether he walks the walk! Time will tell!

Yes you could right,on Sir KillBill Malky?but we await Vol's 2 and 3!!!!!!!!!!!

Not rubbishing the comments in any way but for a person of his stature and experience I would be flabbergasted if he could not schmooze his way through the first few weeks.
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The real telling time will come in about 4 weeks from now once the initial dust has settled.
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Wonder how much we're paying him - or is Black financing this directly through an up-front fee / free shares or a share of the sales price of STFC to the new owners / 5 of the investment from the new majority share holder when it happens.....probably a mix of 2 from 3.

dreamofacleansheet2 wrote:
Personally and I know Sam has tried to contact him I'd like to hear/see a detailed interview with Andrew Black. He has eluded on twitter that he was obviously happy with the playing side but not at boardroom level. It would be lovely to know exactly what the problem's are? Is it the fact that we have a great programme but still don't market the club to the Town or others? Is it that they are not happy with how their investment as been spent? Also we can't buy the ground off the council unless the trustees of the Goddard Estate give there say so. There is a restrictive covenant on all the land that it has to be used for sport. I'm very worried about his comment about another ground. I really hope we don't go down this route but fear we will. Anyway Dear Mr Black please come on the Adver and give us your thoughts.

Sorry, hadn't seen your response (better explained than mine I might add) prior to posting re. the county ground land.

Davidsyrett wrote:

Swindon1984 wrote:

mallorca wrote: All sounds positive,the new chairman does talk the talk and players budget in place will not be cut so I guess Pdc will just need to manage and get on with it. What worried me in the past was not the amount of money spent and invested in players but what was my concern what was wasted. I guess we will know in time if the investors will agree to this plan. Like all of us I feel worried a little bit that it may not pan out. As to R/development at the CG, surely efforts should be made to buy the Ground from the SBC/? I know this has been tried many many times and it's about time the Council just maybe thought about selling. As for Pdc Embargo etc has taken a back seat,perhaps Pdc know's for once when to keep quiet

Believe this has been done to death before - there might be the chance of a long term lease but the bottom line is we will never own the land because it isn't the council's to sell - they are the custodians, nothing more.

Hence why I think a new ground will be on the agenda, There will never be enough investment potential in the CG as Swindon will never own it. A new ground will make us far more investable.

It would, it's just a shame really - I'd love us to have a redeveloped county ground rather than a stadium in the middle of nowhere. Just hate the thought of one of those grounds which is tacked on the side of a motorway, miles from the town or the nearest pub, with no atmosphere or soul to it. Some seem to think building a shiny new ground would increase attendance, in the circumstances above I could see attendances actually fall. All up in the air for the moment though, and from what's been said nothing will happen for at least another year. No surprises there then.

Well good to see we have cleared the equity part up with two answer put forward with the exact opposite outcome!
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So again Sam can you answer a very simple question - Would an Equity investment by the board take us out of the embargo? Or simply does Equity count towards turnover?
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Then I guess it answers Den's question - its designed to prevent debt not buying success if it does!
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SAP the club accounts simply stated that Creditors over a year (basically non trade creditors) is £9.2m - £7.8 owed to the holding Co and £1.4m to Sir Arbib and Andrew Black (Sorry got the amounts wrong earlier - AB just topped it up not halved SMA's loan)
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The owed to the Holding company will simply be money used to pay the bills by the owners not the club's own finances
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How and what they are in the Holding Co???? I never seen those accounts but today's article suggest most is loans by the Directors
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so a very simply Balance sheet could be
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Assets
Receiables from Sub (the club) £7.8m
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Liabilities
Loans from Directors £6m
Equity £1.8m
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Please note the Liabs are made up numbers
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Changing it to Equity means the amount owed to the Holding Co can become Equity in the club and then the value of the Equity in the Holing Co simply becomes the value of the Club
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I still don't think they want to sell full stop as being suggested as how will that make them any return?
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OK the debts have been paid - but the club will still be a loss making unit with no real assets - as if we were to liquidate the players become worthless as sold for peanuts
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What they obviously want is an external investor to come on board and share the burden of the next step
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They have paid £9m to date and redevelopment was quoted at £20m - so ideally they want someone else to fund half of that rathe rthan htem pumping £30m in
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This is easily achieved by selling some of the remaining 7m share capital we have
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This can then reduce the Holdings Cos ownership down form 95% to X% (they can choose this by selling a set numbr of shares)
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Then any profits made by promotion and the post redeveloped CG or new Ground can be distributed to the Holding Co and the New Investor(s) via dividends - as the Shareholder equity will no longer be negative!
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Investment in football clubs does not have to always be loss making
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If you look at our net transfer income under this board we have achieved a huge amount of profit with Cox and Austin bringing in £2.8m alone!
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Ritchie is worth more than the £250k paid for him as too is Flint worth more than £150k and Wes will certainly be worth more than what we paid ofr him - we don't know the exact fee but know it can not be more than £500k due to the amount in the post balance sheet section being £506 in total - but that was for 7 Transfers in (which we know at least £180 went on Connell, Smith and Cox) and 4 pay offs off-set by 2 transfers out!
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As I have said revenue in the Championship can easily become £10m
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So as long as we can keep our cost of sales (mostly wages) below £7m (currently £5m - of which £4m were wages) we should make an operating profit as I doubt operating expenses (backroom costs) will rise much above the current £3m)
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Thats before any new revenue stremas from the redevelopment!
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Then we will hopefully see net transfer income continue to boost this through wise purchases like Cox, Austin, Ritchie, Flint, Wes, Collins, Troy etc

I'm confused. We've had a great year or so - easy promotion last year, favourites to go up this year. So what do we do?... kick out the person and most popular chairman we've had for a very long time, Jeremy Wray. Then the new lot ask Wray to write off what's owed to him. Are they having a laugh?

In terms of turning debt into equity - its basically an accounting tidy up

It all happenes below "operating profit" which I presume is where the wage cap calculations are made.

The only P&L changes are a reduction in the interest payable, which leads to a slightly higher Tax payment, and then a possible increase in dividends payable.

Brainy_G93 wrote:
I'm confused. We've had a great year or so - easy promotion last year, favourites to go up this year. So what do we do?... kick out the person and most popular chairman we've had for a very long time, Jeremy Wray. Then the new lot ask Wray to write off what's owed to him. Are they having a laugh?

Its about turning the debt into shares, not simply writing the debt off.

Instead of the company owing Wray money in the form of debt, Wray owns a bigger chunk of the company and therefore is entitled to more of a divided pay out (similar to the interest payments he would be recieving on the debt) and then Wray has the option to sell his stake in the club to somebody else, and get back the money he has put into the club that way.

Its not a case of Wray giving the club £10,000 and then the club saying, thanks for the money - can we write it off and not pay you back

Ginge09 wrote:

Brainy_G93 wrote:
I'm confused. We've had a great year or so - easy promotion last year, favourites to go up this year. So what do we do?... kick out the person and most popular chairman we've had for a very long time, Jeremy Wray. Then the new lot ask Wray to write off what's owed to him. Are they having a laugh?

Its about turning the debt into shares, not simply writing the debt off.

Instead of the company owing Wray money in the form of debt, Wray owns a bigger chunk of the company and therefore is entitled to more of a divided pay out (similar to the interest payments he would be recieving on the debt) and then Wray has the option to sell his stake in the club to somebody else, and get back the money he has put into the club that way.

Its not a case of Wray giving the club £10,000 and then the club saying, thanks for the money - can we write it off and not pay you back

Yeah Ginge!you can turn debt into shares,but then the shares are worthless too!football clubs are a bottomless pit for Cash,only the players and their money grabbing Agents make money from the football game!LOL!!!!!!!

Its a little more than simple Accounting Tidy up
.
Yes in our current set up it simply moves £9m from Liabilities to Equity - and leaves the money men in the same position
.
However - more importantly it means anyone buying in is NOT buying that liability
.
Currently if a new investor came on board and him and AB went basically 50/50 - that new guy buys £4.5m existing debt within his/her investment
.
If it is already Equity - he/she buys no existing debt
.
That makes the club a lot more attractive to a new co-investor!
.
No one will buy the club outright until at least the plans have been finalised and planning permission granted - otherwise they could end up back at square one - owning a loss making club with no assets!

All now sold out for Villa! Can't wait

London Red wrote:
Well good to see we have cleared the equity part up with two answer put forward with the exact opposite outcome!
.
So again Sam can you answer a very simple question - Would an Equity investment by the board take us out of the embargo? Or simply does Equity count towards turnover?
.
Then I guess it answers Den's question - its designed to prevent debt not buying success if it does!
.
SAP the club accounts simply stated that Creditors over a year (basically non trade creditors) is £9.2m - £7.8 owed to the holding Co and £1.4m to Sir Arbib and Andrew Black (Sorry got the amounts wrong earlier - AB just topped it up not halved SMA's loan)
.
The owed to the Holding company will simply be money used to pay the bills by the owners not the club's own finances
.
How and what they are in the Holding Co???? I never seen those accounts but today's article suggest most is loans by the Directors
.
so a very simply Balance sheet could be
.
Assets
Receiables from Sub (the club) £7.8m
.
Liabilities
Loans from Directors £6m
Equity £1.8m
.
Please note the Liabs are made up numbers
.
Changing it to Equity means the amount owed to the Holding Co can become Equity in the club and then the value of the Equity in the Holing Co simply becomes the value of the Club
.
I still don't think they want to sell full stop as being suggested as how will that make them any return?
.
OK the debts have been paid - but the club will still be a loss making unit with no real assets - as if we were to liquidate the players become worthless as sold for peanuts
.
What they obviously want is an external investor to come on board and share the burden of the next step
.
They have paid £9m to date and redevelopment was quoted at £20m - so ideally they want someone else to fund half of that rathe rthan htem pumping £30m in
.
This is easily achieved by selling some of the remaining 7m share capital we have
.
This can then reduce the Holdings Cos ownership down form 95% to X% (they can choose this by selling a set numbr of shares)
.
Then any profits made by promotion and the post redeveloped CG or new Ground can be distributed to the Holding Co and the New Investor(s) via dividends - as the Shareholder equity will no longer be negative!
.
Investment in football clubs does not have to always be loss making
.
If you look at our net transfer income under this board we have achieved a huge amount of profit with Cox and Austin bringing in £2.8m alone!
.
Ritchie is worth more than the £250k paid for him as too is Flint worth more than £150k and Wes will certainly be worth more than what we paid ofr him - we don't know the exact fee but know it can not be more than £500k due to the amount in the post balance sheet section being £506 in total - but that was for 7 Transfers in (which we know at least £180 went on Connell, Smith and Cox) and 4 pay offs off-set by 2 transfers out!
.
As I have said revenue in the Championship can easily become £10m
.
So as long as we can keep our cost of sales (mostly wages) below £7m (currently £5m - of which £4m were wages) we should make an operating profit as I doubt operating expenses (backroom costs) will rise much above the current £3m)
.
Thats before any new revenue stremas from the redevelopment!
.
Then we will hopefully see net transfer income continue to boost this through wise purchases like Cox, Austin, Ritchie, Flint, Wes, Collins, Troy etc

Thanks LR...will digest this in more detail a little later - UAT going on at present and loads of errrr 'unique' issues arising....finger trouble tickets most of them but with no admissions it makes life more interesting.

Blah Blah thought the club would lets us in for free as its only the fa cup BLAH,BLAH, only got a full house for Villa apoor turn out BLAH BLAH PDC has spent all the clubs money on a new coat worse than that Lou MACARI he is .

One interesting thing I've just learned: the Football League do not make transfer embargoes public. They leave disclosure of them to the discretion of the clubs involved. There could be many clubs in our position who haven't made it public. Maybe STFC weren't intending to make it public and PDC let the cat out of the bag? (Well, I thought it was interesting anyway.)

Latest piece I have managed to obtain is, there is a meeting on Thursday between SBC and the club, with reference to the ground re development. The new proposal is to be formally put to SBC. The input from SBC is they are at the moment more flexible in their approach and are looking forward to viewing and discussing the issue further. Evidently they see Patey as a professional appointment by the club.

the wizard wrote:
Latest piece I have managed to obtain is, there is a meeting on Thursday between SBC and the club, with reference to the ground re development. The new proposal is to be formally put to SBC. The input from SBC is they are at the moment more flexible in their approach and are looking forward to viewing and discussing the issue further. Evidently they see Patey as a professional appointment by the club.

Good news it sounds like. My best Yoda impression there, accidentally - been a long day.

the wizard wrote:
Latest piece I have managed to obtain is, there is a meeting on Thursday between SBC and the club, with reference to the ground re development. The new proposal is to be formally put to SBC. The input from SBC is they are at the moment more flexible in their approach and are looking forward to viewing and discussing the issue further. Evidently they see Patey as a professional appointment by the club.

Wiz, please don't take this as a pop at you - it isn't - but we've heard this sort of message many times before and it's led nowhere. I will not believe that anything worthwhile is happening until I see / hear some statement from both the Council and the Club setting out in detail what is intended - or at least what is desired.

Oi Den! wrote:

the wizard wrote:
Latest piece I have managed to obtain is, there is a meeting on Thursday between SBC and the club, with reference to the ground re development. The new proposal is to be formally put to SBC. The input from SBC is they are at the moment more flexible in their approach and are looking forward to viewing and discussing the issue further. Evidently they see Patey as a professional appointment by the club.

Wiz, please don't take this as a pop at you - it isn't - but we've heard this sort of message many times before and it's led nowhere. I will not believe that anything worthwhile is happening until I see / hear some statement from both the Council and the Club setting out in detail what is intended - or at least what is desired.

Yes, I know, but the timing seems to fit well and the fact SBC seem to be more willing is surely something positive.

It seems that once we are over the planning stage and actually get close to groundwork and foundations we will need the extra capital coming into the club. I reckon we could be a lot closer than many think. Now that would be a good place to be, and that would make Pateys appointment a lot more logical.

Confused of Bracknell here! LR's basic question needs to be answered but I guess equity must be included on the income side for the club to be confident of getting past the embargo. Logically it seems to go against the pupose of the wage cap. Thought I would get back to football and watched lPaolo's pre-Crewe review on the OS - more confused! Only good thing I got from it was that Paolo's meeting with Sir Will after the match went ok. (I think)

If SBC are now more pro a redevelopment - surely that has nothing to do with the appointment o SWP - who has been here under a week
.
Sure that would have come from dealin with the current regime (and Nick Watkins in particular) over the past 4 years or so
.
They surely have realised that the new board are not looking to simply get the land for cheap and make a personal fortune by selling it to housing developers - but are looking to build a
complex which is good for SBC, the club and the people of Swindon
.
Unlike before it sounds like plans are now discussed and adapted to make them suitable - rather than just thrown at them!
.
At least the Gold Crest Newt or whatever it is that always appears won't stop it this time!

If SBC are now more pro a redevelopment - surely that has nothing to do with the appointment of SWP - who has been here under a week
.
Surely that would have come from dealing with the current regime (and Nick Watkins in particular) over the past 4 years or so
.
They surely have realised that the new board are not looking to simply get the land for cheap and make a personal fortune by selling it to housing developers - but are looking to build a
complex which is good for SBC, the club and the people of Swindon
.
Unlike before it sounds like plans are now discussed and adapted to make them suitable - rather than just thrown at them!
.
At least the Gold Crest Newt or whatever it is that always appears won't stop it this time!

Has anyone got the FL app?
.
If so have they kind their video section doesn't work?
.
If so anyone found a cure? Do I need to upgrade to i06 for example?

Twostatements in he same article:

"I know Andrew Fitton and Jeremy own some of that debt as well - and frankly it has no real value."

The debt is significant but does not affect the day to day running of the club because it is in a holding company"

so it is significan debt which has no real value - I don't understand thi contradiction

Its not contradictory as it is talking about two separate elements
.
The loans to AF and JW (plus AB and SMA) has no value to them at present as the club has no ability to pay it back
.
We have very little cash, make a loss year on year and do not have assets to the tune of £10m to cover it - so it is ineffect worthless
.
However - if a new investor came in the debt is significant to them as it could then allow the club to repay it via their injection
.
Therefore, it has to be converted to equity to attract investors in
.
Would you invest if you knew your £10m would simply go into existing owners pockets and not help the club?
.
Or would you rather that £10m helped redevelop the ground - and therefore lead you to a potential return?

Hello boys.
What's your favourite cheese?
It's vintage cheddar for me.

Paulo Is awfully quiet lately.
He Is definitaly going after the Villa swansong!!!!!

Brainy_G93 wrote:
I'm confused. We've had a great year or so - easy promotion last year, favourites to go up this year. So what do we do?... kick out the person and most popular chairman we've had for a very long time, Jeremy Wray. Then the new lot ask Wray to write off what's owed to him. Are they having a laugh?

Maybe it might have somthing to do with JW being the chairman when STFC went in2 a embargo after just 13 games or was that nothing 2do with him?

madterrier wrote:
As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround. I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless. But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

The easy was now a days is to re-name the ground...
Thats if they can that is...

Loads of money in that

tifosi wrote:
Hello boys.
What's your favourite cheese?
It's vintage cheddar for me.

Its boreing london red ,sorry i mean red leicester for me,a lot on here are double Gloucester

Nowt wrong with a good English cheddar.

Served with a fine British ale!

Maybe (in order to boost revenue) to lift the embargo. Stfc release a cheese....!

Maybe (in order to boost revenue) to lift the embargo. Stfc release a cheese....!

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

madterrier wrote:
As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround. I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless. But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

The easy was now a days is to re-name the ground...
Thats if they can that is...

Loads of money in that

Excellent post Romain.

The County Ground should be renamed 'The Wizard of Witney Multiple Identities Stadium' and in brackets below, 'Where Nobody Else is Welcome'

Wizard could stand outside before matches and sign autographs for himself!!

To be fair, this does save a small fortune on sending forthcoming Christmas Cards, as we only need to send one to Wizard!!!

I guess from reading all the posts from LR today he is an accountant? That explains what he is so fond of stats. Can you confirm please LR?

If I was worth hundreds of millions I would invest heavily in Swindon
Town FC, but only because I am a real supporter, and I would be realistic enough to understand that there was little chance of a serious return because we all know that most clubs including ours make an annual operating loss! And all this talk about turning loans to shares doesn't alter that.

Finally, I have been supporting Swindon since 1966 and have some wonderful memories of the CG, but...if we cannot buy the land why would we be so stupid as to spend 20 to 30 million developing the ground? We have to be realistic and build a new ground on the outskirts of Swindon, look at what Reading have achieved since doing that?

joey butler wrote:

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

madterrier wrote: As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround. I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless. But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

The easy was now a days is to re-name the ground... Thats if they can that is... Loads of money in that

Excellent post Romain. The County Ground should be renamed 'The Wizard of Witney Multiple Identities Stadium' and in brackets below, 'Where Nobody Else is Welcome' Wizard could stand outside before matches and sign autographs for himself!! To be fair, this does save a small fortune on sending forthcoming Christmas Cards, as we only need to send one to Wizard!!!

Think the name wizard stadium would be great...
After all it would be named after a true Swindon fan..
BUT then again so would it be great 2 go and watch your team with the ground being named after my dad who also was a big town fan..
I would call it
THE SAM ROMAIN AND SONS STADIUM

This is music to Paolo's ears.

All the attention on something else,while he sharpens his cancerian claws in the background to double nip the Villa next week.

You wait.

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

joey butler wrote:

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

madterrier wrote: As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround. I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless. But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

The easy was now a days is to re-name the ground... Thats if they can that is... Loads of money in that

Excellent post Romain. The County Ground should be renamed 'The Wizard of Witney Multiple Identities Stadium' and in brackets below, 'Where Nobody Else is Welcome' Wizard could stand outside before matches and sign autographs for himself!! To be fair, this does save a small fortune on sending forthcoming Christmas Cards, as we only need to send one to Wizard!!!

Think the name wizard stadium would be great...
After all it would be named after a true Swindon fan..
BUT then again so would it be great 2 go and watch your team with the ground being named after my dad who also was a big town fan..
I would call it
THE SAM ROMAIN AND SONS STADIUM

I will certainly support your idea above Romain.

Anything in fact to stop that massive Dick, Witney Wizard from taking over this site any further than he has done so already!!

Well done rosco And the team for winning the league a true town fan
Onwards and upwards

joey butler wrote:

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

joey butler wrote:

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

madterrier wrote: As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround. I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless. But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

The easy was now a days is to re-name the ground... Thats if they can that is... Loads of money in that

Excellent post Romain. The County Ground should be renamed 'The Wizard of Witney Multiple Identities Stadium' and in brackets below, 'Where Nobody Else is Welcome' Wizard could stand outside before matches and sign autographs for himself!! To be fair, this does save a small fortune on sending forthcoming Christmas Cards, as we only need to send one to Wizard!!!

Think the name wizard stadium would be great... After all it would be named after a true Swindon fan.. BUT then again so would it be great 2 go and watch your team with the ground being named after my dad who also was a big town fan.. I would call it THE SAM ROMAIN AND SONS STADIUM

I will certainly support your idea above Romain. Anything in fact to stop that massive Dick, Witney Wizard from taking over this site any further than he has done so already!!

I DINT KNOW HE HAD A BIG DICK..LOL.

Anyway hes always been fine with me..
I like the man as he dont hold back and worry what others think and always quotes from the heart when it comes to STFC

smirg kcab wrote:
Well done rosco And the team for winning the league a true town fan Onwards and upwards

FANTASTIC
Well done SWINDON ROBINS

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

smirg kcab wrote:
Well done rosco And the team for winning the league a true town fan Onwards and upwards

FANTASTIC
Well done SWINDON ROBINS

Yes well done to the Robins!45 long years since we last won the title!should be headline news in the Adver tomorrow!Paolo and the Town will be pushed off the back page!LOL!!!!!!!!!

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

joey butler wrote:

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

joey butler wrote:

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

madterrier wrote: As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround. I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless. But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

The easy was now a days is to re-name the ground... Thats if they can that is... Loads of money in that

Excellent post Romain. The County Ground should be renamed 'The Wizard of Witney Multiple Identities Stadium' and in brackets below, 'Where Nobody Else is Welcome' Wizard could stand outside before matches and sign autographs for himself!! To be fair, this does save a small fortune on sending forthcoming Christmas Cards, as we only need to send one to Wizard!!!

Think the name wizard stadium would be great... After all it would be named after a true Swindon fan.. BUT then again so would it be great 2 go and watch your team with the ground being named after my dad who also was a big town fan.. I would call it THE SAM ROMAIN AND SONS STADIUM

I will certainly support your idea above Romain. Anything in fact to stop that massive Dick, Witney Wizard from taking over this site any further than he has done so already!!

I DINT KNOW HE HAD A BIG DICK..LOL.

Anyway hes always been fine with me..
I like the man as he dont hold back and worry what others think and always quotes from the heart when it comes to STFC

You made a massive mistake on here over the weekend Romain with a post which 'you' would not usually be capable of with your deliberate spelling mistakes!

So who is the DICK now?

You were far too articulate in your quote at the weekend, I am happy to publish it on here if you wish?

Redhouse Red wrote:
Maybe (in order to boost revenue) to lift the embargo. Stfc release a cheese....!

RR could only be Moonraker cheddar lol!

JB - I will certainly support your idea above Romain. Anything in fact to stop that massive Dick, Witney Wizard from taking over this site any further than he has done so already!!

How about THE SANC T MONIOUS arena lol!

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

smirg kcab wrote: Well done rosco And the team for winning the league a true town fan Onwards and upwards

FANTASTIC Well done SWINDON ROBINS

Yep well done Rosco & the boys!

joey butler wrote:

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

joey butler wrote:

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

joey butler wrote:

DarrenSTFCRomain wrote:

madterrier wrote: As far as I am aware, injections of equity do nothing to change operating income and hence do not affect the embargo. Neither do loans, but 'sponsorship' deals are the favoured workaround. I'm sure the 'investors' have now realised that you don't 'invest' in a football club. Instead, you squander your money. My take on it is that the current investors do not want to throw any more good money after bad, but they cannot exit in an orderly fashion without writing off their loans which are, as Patey has alluded to, worthless. But Patey is hardly a 'debt buster' (stupid Adver title). Sir Martyn is that, by graciously recognising the obvious.

The easy was now a days is to re-name the ground... Thats if they can that is... Loads of money in that

Excellent post Romain. The County Ground should be renamed 'The Wizard of Witney Multiple Identities Stadium' and in brackets below, 'Where Nobody Else is Welcome' Wizard could stand outside before matches and sign autographs for himself!! To be fair, this does save a small fortune on sending forthcoming Christmas Cards, as we only need to send one to Wizard!!!

Think the name wizard stadium would be great... After all it would be named after a true Swindon fan.. BUT then again so would it be great 2 go and watch your team with the ground being named after my dad who also was a big town fan.. I would call it THE SAM ROMAIN AND SONS STADIUM

I will certainly support your idea above Romain. Anything in fact to stop that massive Dick, Witney Wizard from taking over this site any further than he has done so already!!

I DINT KNOW HE HAD A BIG DICK..LOL. Anyway hes always been fine with me.. I like the man as he dont hold back and worry what others think and always quotes from the heart when it comes to STFC

You made a massive mistake on here over the weekend Romain with a post which 'you' would not usually be capable of with your deliberate spelling mistakes! So who is the DICK now? You were far too articulate in your quote at the weekend, I am happy to publish it on here if you wish?

HA HA..
IM ALWAYS A DICK..
and the spelling is not deliberate mistakes my spelling is realy that sad...

and me articulate...
Must had been a off day lol....

Anyway dont let others get ya gown mate its only words

The Board are missing a trick here if they are looking for investment they should send Paulo on Dragons Den.....'I'm looking for investment to buya soma more players'.

smirg kcab wrote:
Well done rosco And the team for winning the league a true town fan
Onwards and upwards

Absolutely Grim and as a very serious dribbling down the shirt fan myself this has been a long time coming well done Swindon Robins magnifico as Paolo would say.

Lazaat wrote:
I guess from reading all the posts from LR today he is an accountant? That explains what he is so fond of stats. Can you confirm please LR?

If I was worth hundreds of millions I would invest heavily in Swindon
Town FC, but only because I am a real supporter, and I would be realistic enough to understand that there was little chance of a serious return because we all know that most clubs including ours make an annual operating loss! And all this talk about turning loans to shares doesn't alter that.

Finally, I have been supporting Swindon since 1966 and have some wonderful memories of the CG, but...if we cannot buy the land why would we be so stupid as to spend 20 to 30 million developing the ground? We have to be realistic and build a new ground on the outskirts of Swindon, look at what Reading have achieved since doing that?

Sorry Laz but that is the worst kept secret in history.....especial
y as LR has often stated he works in accounting.
...
He may not be an accountant but when it comes to Balance Sheets and P and Ls - I know one name who I check for on here.
===.
Anyway - How's You!?

SAPFanSTFC wrote:

Lazaat wrote:
I guess from reading all the posts from LR today he is an accountant? That explains what he is so fond of stats. Can you confirm please LR?

If I was worth hundreds of millions I would invest heavily in Swindon
Town FC, but only because I am a real supporter, and I would be realistic enough to understand that there was little chance of a serious return because we all know that most clubs including ours make an annual operating loss! And all this talk about turning loans to shares doesn't alter that.

Finally, I have been supporting Swindon since 1966 and have some wonderful memories of the CG, but...if we cannot buy the land why would we be so stupid as to spend 20 to 30 million developing the ground? We have to be realistic and build a new ground on the outskirts of Swindon, look at what Reading have achieved since doing that?

Sorry Laz but that is the worst kept secret in history.....especial

y as LR has often stated he works in accounting.
...
He may not be an accountant but when it comes to Balance Sheets and P and Ls - I know one name who I check for on here.
===.
Anyway - How's You!?

...except he is a senior accountant and from what I can deduce a decent one at least.
---.
I just don't trust your team selection LR!!....it just doesn't add up!!
:-)

Would like to point out that I cheered the Robins every step of the way to their first title since 1967!! Fantastic!!
---.
Would also like to say GITS!! I had £10 at 6/4 that they would win tonight..sadly they stopped the racing for all the interviews and we lost by a point so that is 3 pints you biker crew owe me!!
---.
Used to go every other week but not been in 25yrs....VERY proud of the performance tonight as it was anything but real speedway tonight - just a battle of wills on a damp squid of a track.

Would like to point out that I cheered the Robins every step of the way to their first title since 1967!! Fantastic!!
---.
Would also like to say GITS!! I had £10 at 6/4 that they would win tonight..sadly they stopped the racing for all the interviews and we lost by a point so that is 3 pints you biker crew owe me!!
---.
Used to go every other week but not been in 25yrs....VERY proud of the performance tonight as it was anything but real speedway tonight - just a battle of wills on a damp squid of a track.

London Red wrote:
Has anyone got the FL app?
.
If so have they kind their video section doesn't work?
.
If so anyone found a cure? Do I need to upgrade to i06 for example?

Yeah, I've got the same problem, it happened when I did an update on my iPhone, no idea how to fix it, tried reloading it but didn't work, anyone else got any ideas

Thanks Ian, well as I thought LR is an accountant...right boring ba$tud$ they are....did I tell you I am also an accountant LOL? But I leave my job at work and don't bring it onto this board, having said that I do find LRs posts and stats etc quite interesting but I take them all with a pinch of salt!

Like you Ian I used to go regularly to speedway, I think i started going to Blunsdon in 1968 to watch Barry Briggs retain the Golden Helmut every Meet, what a team that was? I haven't been for about 40 years but watched them at Belle Vue several times since. I will be at Crewe this evening, are you going M8?

Lazaat wrote:
I guess from reading all the posts from LR today he is an accountant? That explains what he is so fond of stats. Can you confirm please LR? If I was worth hundreds of millions I would invest heavily in Swindon Town FC, but only because I am a real supporter, and I would be realistic enough to understand that there was little chance of a serious return because we all know that most clubs including ours make an annual operating loss! And all this talk about turning loans to shares doesn't alter that. Finally, I have been supporting Swindon since 1966 and have some wonderful memories of the CG, but...if we cannot buy the land why would we be so stupid as to spend 20 to 30 million developing the ground? We have to be realistic and build a new ground on the outskirts of Swindon, look at what Reading have achieved since doing that?

I know deep down you're right but am clouded with rage at the thought of trying to emulate anything Reading do - sorry, just can't stand them. It's my problem, I'll deal with it :-)

Some sort of compromise could surely be reached? A new ground but still within a reasonable distance of the town centre? Seriously for me it makes a mockery of the whole idea of being called "Swindon Town FC" if we're playing half way to Hungerford or wherever they happen to want to lump the stadium. Similarly with Reading - miles outside the town. No soul whatsoever. Coventry City - nowhere near the city, I know as the last time I went from Coventry to the Ricoh during the daytime I might add it cost me elevent quid in a taxi, and that was about five years ago! It's a slippery slope to the common move in the US (or the one-off, never should have been allowed move in this country) where you take a team that's failing and relocate them somewhere else to turn a profit. Call me old fashioned but clubs should play in the towns they represent.