Wray explains quit remarks (From Swindon Advertiser)

LionelHutz wrote:
Well said Jeremy. I really do think this whole topic has brought out the very worst of some of our ill-educated fanbase. Sure it is an emotive issue but, like you, I'm sure the more switched on of us can see the bigger picture.

Once someone has served the sentence handed to them by the courts of law, they should be able to resume their career.

That his sentence was a short one is not our concern. If people feel strongly about that they should be writing to their MP, not spouting drivel on internet forums.

I fully support your stance Jeremy and hope you will be at our club for many years to come.

Lazaat wrote:
There has been some very extreme comments on here over the past few days including the phrase "murdering b@$t@rd" which I have found very distasteful! A few posters who have said he has served his time according to the law of the land have been shot down and ridiculed and when I personally posted that I have no intention of not supporting the club and we should move on I was called a "narrow minded fool" and the poster doubted I had children of my own (I have 3 children)! I have been quite shocked and alarmed by the extremism of some Swindon fans! Jesus said "those of you without sin cast the first stone".....

Lazaat wrote:
There has been some very extreme comments on here over the past few days including the phrase "murdering b@$t@rd" which I have found very distasteful! A few posters who have said he has served his time according to the law of the land have been shot down and ridiculed and when I personally posted that I have no intention of not supporting the club and we should move on I was called a "narrow minded fool" and the poster doubted I had children of my own (I have 3 children)! I have been quite shocked and alarmed by the extremism of some Swindon fans! Jesus said "those of you without sin cast the first stone".....

stfclives wrote:
JW dont quit please you have done so much good and driven the club forward in a way that has never happened before. I don't think that LM should play or train with us but I don't see it as a quitting issue . In the end this is a highly emotive issue so it is inevitable that opinions are divided.

jontyg wrote:
Don't think LM has any influence. It didn't stop our lads from going out on the razz after the Plymouth game , did it!

STFCOntario wrote:
If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:
If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:
If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:
If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Wilesy wrote:
Now the facts of the matter are much clearer, more reasoned views are possible and many of the posts on this thread have been thoughtfully written.

It seems that
A) the majority are fully supportive of Jeremy Wray
B) people are generally ok with LM being given a chance to put something back into the community, at STFC
C) the majority are against LM ever playing for STFC
D) it is an emotive subject which will divide opinion

Hopefully J Wray won't step down and can accept the situation for what it is, although I would hope that LM would walk away from the club rather than letting it get to that situation.

It would be interesting to hear the victims mother view on the subject, now that the LM role is clarified.

STFCOntario wrote:
if you have ever driven under the influence at all... then you are just as guilty as LM ,, why... because you think not being in an accident makes you innocent.. no.. you need to share LM sentance with him.. you did the same crime... your just as guilty your honour. You call Peaks and appologise to them for your part in the crime tell them you driven under the influence but where lucky not to have killed someones children.

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:
If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:
If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

Just because others have a different opinion to you does not make them wrong. STFCOntario do you not think your post is a bit self righteous? You see in my opinion its that type of arrogance that is poor minded. The fact that you think because people don't have the same opinion as you, they are "poor minded". And success comes in many forms but mostly by doing the right thing. Unfortunately in a case like this it can only be measured on the outcome, which is why its such a difficult situation. You need to accept that.

newburymike wrote:
I can just about cope with this if for example he spends the rest of his sentance (the additional 3 years) working for the community up & down the country educating kids & footballers about the evils of drink driving etc. Then let's see.....

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:
If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

Just because others have a different opinion to you does not make them wrong. STFCOntario do you not think your post is a bit self righteous? You see in my opinion its that type of arrogance that is poor minded. The fact that you think because people don't have the same opinion as you, they are "poor minded". And success comes in many forms but mostly by doing the right thing. Unfortunately in a case like this it can only be measured on the outcome, which is why its such a difficult situation. You need to accept that.

stokes_stfc wrote:
i'm glad that jeremy did these last couple of interviews, cause it's cleared up the clubs intentions... i do not want to see LM signed on a professional contract, as I don't think he should be allowed to go straight back into the public eye, almost as if nothing had happened. however, i will fully support the club in allowing him to train with them, providing the first step for him to reintegrate into society.

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:
If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

London Red wrote:
I'm behind you Jeremy
.
Also hopefully now it is clear he is not signing on as a professional (yet anyway) that a more reasoned debate can occur
.
People need to talk about rehabilitation as a whole - should it exist and should companies (STFC included) help in that process?
.
Example a top surgeon who earns hundreds of thousamds of pounds amd saves 100s if not 1000s of lives one night stupidly drives after a event and kills someone under the influence of alcohol
.
After serving his time deemed appropriate by the legal system (different issue) he has the opportunity to rejoin the medical profession again
.
Should he be allowed? Even if it means him earning hundreds of thousands of pounds doing it - but can continue to save lives through that role?

Oi Den! wrote:
I too am fully behind Jeremy Wray. . I don't believe he is holding supporters to ransom at all. He is saying that there seems to be little point in carrying on trying to lead the club when the majority of fans do not support him. . I believe it's very likely that Wray knew that this firestorm would blow up. For me, this shows the courage of the man, and the feeling is strengthened by the fact that although he recognises it may defeat him, he is standing firm for what he believes is right. . Some people have said "What do the family of the two boys think?" Do the hangers and floggers and populist rags really care what they think? Or is it really about encouraging them to display their grief and anger in public because it supports their form of "justice"? . What sort of society do we create if we cast people out forever? The terrible consequences of McCormick's actions have wrecked the lives of at least two families. We will not make things any better for them by continuing to punish McCormick for ever. . As I said the other day, I find it puzzling that worse drink drivers than McCormick are revered in football as heroes, just because they have been lucky enough to avoid killing anyone as a consequence of their recklessness. The day we kick them all out of football will be the day we can say that Luke McCormick should also have no place in it. In the meantime, the vast majority of Town fans who regard Jimmy Davis as a fallen hero could do worse than examine their consciences.

Stratton Red wrote:

stokes_stfc wrote:
i'm glad that jeremy did these last couple of interviews, cause it's cleared up the clubs intentions... i do not want to see LM signed on a professional contract, as I don't think he should be allowed to go straight back into the public eye, almost as if nothing had happened. however, i will fully support the club in allowing him to train with them, providing the first step for him to reintegrate into society.

I don't think it has cleared up the clubs intention. JW states -we’ve made it clear that he is not signing a contract. I want to hear JW say he will NEVER sign a professional football contract with STFC.
*
I also don't like his comment - If the weight of opinion is such that the argument for compassion and giving someone a second chance was not taken. - I think most of us on here welcome and would be proud of the club that played an active role in helping the community - however this is not black and white, there are degrees of crime and what we are talking about is not petty theft. Would we help out footballers who were conviced of rape or sleeping with underage kids or child abuse? - there has to be a line. We rightly promote our club as a family club and I'm afraid (rightly or wrongly) a man that drink drove and destroyed the lives of a family by killing two kids is up there for me - and Mr Wray this is not an extreme view!
*
The other thing that doesn't sit well with me is even if we are not/never going to sign him are we by helping him play football helping him back to play with another club? I don't think he should play professional football again, especially after he said he wouldn't.
*
Like I said in my very first post on this subject, if we agree to help him it should be in a non footballing / community role. I don't accept the argument that footballs his trade. Would those of you with kids let a conviced pedo teacher back teaching becuase it's his trade? so the jury on JW is still out for me...

toshman wrote:
For feck sake, can we not just have a drama free club? I'm fed up of lurching from one potential crisis to another.

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote: If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

Oi Den! wrote:

Stratton Red wrote:

stokes_stfc wrote: i'm glad that jeremy did these last couple of interviews, cause it's cleared up the clubs intentions... i do not want to see LM signed on a professional contract, as I don't think he should be allowed to go straight back into the public eye, almost as if nothing had happened. however, i will fully support the club in allowing him to train with them, providing the first step for him to reintegrate into society.

I don't think it has cleared up the clubs intention. JW states -we’ve made it clear that he is not signing a contract. I want to hear JW say he will NEVER sign a professional football contract with STFC. * I also don't like his comment - If the weight of opinion is such that the argument for compassion and giving someone a second chance was not taken. - I think most of us on here welcome and would be proud of the club that played an active role in helping the community - however this is not black and white, there are degrees of crime and what we are talking about is not petty theft. Would we help out footballers who were conviced of rape or sleeping with underage kids or child abuse? - there has to be a line. We rightly promote our club as a family club and I'm afraid (rightly or wrongly) a man that drink drove and destroyed the lives of a family by killing two kids is up there for me - and Mr Wray this is not an extreme view! * The other thing that doesn't sit well with me is even if we are not/never going to sign him are we by helping him play football helping him back to play with another club? I don't think he should play professional football again, especially after he said he wouldn't. * Like I said in my very first post on this subject, if we agree to help him it should be in a non footballing / community role. I don't accept the argument that footballs his trade. Would those of you with kids let a conviced pedo teacher back teaching becuase it's his trade? so the jury on JW is still out for me...

Stratton, the difference is that rapists and child abusers cause deliberate harm to their victims. McCormick did not set out to crash his car, let alone kill anyone. We are all angry when people, especially children, are killed in avoidable circumstances but how can you possibly equate McCormick with rapists and child abusers? If you do, what do you think about Best, Adams, Davis, Beagrie, Beattie and all the rest of football's drink drivers? Do you believe they should never have been allowed to play football again? (Sadly for Davis, he deprived himself of that opportunity). When they made the same decision as McCormick, the consequences of their recklessness could have been the same or much worse than they were in his case.

Stratton Red wrote:

Oi Den! wrote:

Stratton Red wrote:

stokes_stfc wrote: i'm glad that jeremy did these last couple of interviews, cause it's cleared up the clubs intentions... i do not want to see LM signed on a professional contract, as I don't think he should be allowed to go straight back into the public eye, almost as if nothing had happened. however, i will fully support the club in allowing him to train with them, providing the first step for him to reintegrate into society.

I don't think it has cleared up the clubs intention. JW states -we’ve made it clear that he is not signing a contract. I want to hear JW say he will NEVER sign a professional football contract with STFC. * I also don't like his comment - If the weight of opinion is such that the argument for compassion and giving someone a second chance was not taken. - I think most of us on here welcome and would be proud of the club that played an active role in helping the community - however this is not black and white, there are degrees of crime and what we are talking about is not petty theft. Would we help out footballers who were conviced of rape or sleeping with underage kids or child abuse? - there has to be a line. We rightly promote our club as a family club and I'm afraid (rightly or wrongly) a man that drink drove and destroyed the lives of a family by killing two kids is up there for me - and Mr Wray this is not an extreme view! * The other thing that doesn't sit well with me is even if we are not/never going to sign him are we by helping him play football helping him back to play with another club? I don't think he should play professional football again, especially after he said he wouldn't. * Like I said in my very first post on this subject, if we agree to help him it should be in a non footballing / community role. I don't accept the argument that footballs his trade. Would those of you with kids let a conviced pedo teacher back teaching becuase it's his trade? so the jury on JW is still out for me...

Stratton, the difference is that rapists and child abusers cause deliberate harm to their victims. McCormick did not set out to crash his car, let alone kill anyone. We are all angry when people, especially children, are killed in avoidable circumstances but how can you possibly equate McCormick with rapists and child abusers? If you do, what do you think about Best, Adams, Davis, Beagrie, Beattie and all the rest of football's drink drivers? Do you believe they should never have been allowed to play football again? (Sadly for Davis, he deprived himself of that opportunity). When they made the same decision as McCormick, the consequences of their recklessness could have been the same or much worse than they were in his case.

Den, I understand your agrument and these things are never black and white. With respect to the crimes I mentioned I was thinking of specific football related cases. 1. The recent rape case where a footballer slept with a girl that was too drunk to say no - did he intentionally go out to rape a girl that night? 2. A London club backroom staff member who was found guilty of under age sex with a girl that told him she was older - did he intentionally go out to molest a minor? 3. Then we come to LM. The facts reported in the case are: before he left the hotel his best mate pleaded for him not to go cos he was in no fit state. He then phoned him and pleaded with him to pull over. Based on this I'm afraid I don't accept the arguement it's not a case of I didn't realise. As far as I'm concerned he was aware he was putting his life and other lifes at risk. This is why I don't understand how the sentence could be so lenient (a whole different debate). * So, taking into account yours and others very valid views, intentionally or not, he killed two boys and should have no footballing role at our family club. People are applauding JW for the courage of his convictions, well I'm standing by mine!

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:
If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

aussieg wrote:
Yes have heard it over hear i Aussie that PDC will take the Wigan job--has he his fed up with all the posts on this site.

jam1 wrote:

Stratton Red wrote:

Oi Den! wrote:

Stratton Red wrote:

stokes_stfc wrote: i'm glad that jeremy did these last couple of interviews, cause it's cleared up the clubs intentions... i do not want to see LM signed on a professional contract, as I don't think he should be allowed to go straight back into the public eye, almost as if nothing had happened. however, i will fully support the club in allowing him to train with them, providing the first step for him to reintegrate into society.

I don't think it has cleared up the clubs intention. JW states -we’ve made it clear that he is not signing a contract. I want to hear JW say he will NEVER sign a professional football contract with STFC. * I also don't like his comment - If the weight of opinion is such that the argument for compassion and giving someone a second chance was not taken. - I think most of us on here welcome and would be proud of the club that played an active role in helping the community - however this is not black and white, there are degrees of crime and what we are talking about is not petty theft. Would we help out footballers who were conviced of rape or sleeping with underage kids or child abuse? - there has to be a line. We rightly promote our club as a family club and I'm afraid (rightly or wrongly) a man that drink drove and destroyed the lives of a family by killing two kids is up there for me - and Mr Wray this is not an extreme view! * The other thing that doesn't sit well with me is even if we are not/never going to sign him are we by helping him play football helping him back to play with another club? I don't think he should play professional football again, especially after he said he wouldn't. * Like I said in my very first post on this subject, if we agree to help him it should be in a non footballing / community role. I don't accept the argument that footballs his trade. Would those of you with kids let a conviced pedo teacher back teaching becuase it's his trade? so the jury on JW is still out for me...

Stratton, the difference is that rapists and child abusers cause deliberate harm to their victims. McCormick did not set out to crash his car, let alone kill anyone. We are all angry when people, especially children, are killed in avoidable circumstances but how can you possibly equate McCormick with rapists and child abusers? If you do, what do you think about Best, Adams, Davis, Beagrie, Beattie and all the rest of football's drink drivers? Do you believe they should never have been allowed to play football again? (Sadly for Davis, he deprived himself of that opportunity). When they made the same decision as McCormick, the consequences of their recklessness could have been the same or much worse than they were in his case.

Den, I understand your agrument and these things are never black and white. With respect to the crimes I mentioned I was thinking of specific football related cases. 1. The recent rape case where a footballer slept with a girl that was too drunk to say no - did he intentionally go out to rape a girl that night? 2. A London club backroom staff member who was found guilty of under age sex with a girl that told him she was older - did he intentionally go out to molest a minor? 3. Then we come to LM. The facts reported in the case are: before he left the hotel his best mate pleaded for him not to go cos he was in no fit state. He then phoned him and pleaded with him to pull over. Based on this I'm afraid I don't accept the arguement it's not a case of I didn't realise. As far as I'm concerned he was aware he was putting his life and other lifes at risk. This is why I don't understand how the sentence could be so lenient (a whole different debate). * So, taking into account yours and others very valid views, intentionally or not, he killed two boys and should have no footballing role at our family club. People are applauding JW for the courage of his convictions, well I'm standing by mine!

To the detriment of losing Jeremy and possibly Paolo?

Oi Den! wrote:

Stratton Red wrote:

stokes_stfc wrote:
i'm glad that jeremy did these last couple of interviews, cause it's cleared up the clubs intentions... i do not want to see LM signed on a professional contract, as I don't think he should be allowed to go straight back into the public eye, almost as if nothing had happened. however, i will fully support the club in allowing him to train with them, providing the first step for him to reintegrate into society.

I don't think it has cleared up the clubs intention. JW states -we’ve made it clear that he is not signing a contract. I want to hear JW say he will NEVER sign a professional football contract with STFC.
*
I also don't like his comment - If the weight of opinion is such that the argument for compassion and giving someone a second chance was not taken. - I think most of us on here welcome and would be proud of the club that played an active role in helping the community - however this is not black and white, there are degrees of crime and what we are talking about is not petty theft. Would we help out footballers who were conviced of rape or sleeping with underage kids or child abuse? - there has to be a line. We rightly promote our club as a family club and I'm afraid (rightly or wrongly) a man that drink drove and destroyed the lives of a family by killing two kids is up there for me - and Mr Wray this is not an extreme view!
*
The other thing that doesn't sit well with me is even if we are not/never going to sign him are we by helping him play football helping him back to play with another club? I don't think he should play professional football again, especially after he said he wouldn't.
*
Like I said in my very first post on this subject, if we agree to help him it should be in a non footballing / community role. I don't accept the argument that footballs his trade. Would those of you with kids let a conviced pedo teacher back teaching becuase it's his trade? so the jury on JW is still out for me...

Stratton, the difference is that rapists and child abusers cause deliberate harm to their victims. McCormick did not set out to crash his car, let alone kill anyone. We are all angry when people, especially children, are killed in avoidable circumstances but how can you possibly equate McCormick with rapists and child abusers? If you do, what do you think about Best, Adams, Davis, Beagrie, Beattie and all the rest of football's drink drivers? Do you believe they should never have been allowed to play football again? (Sadly for Davis, he deprived himself of that opportunity). When they made the same decision as McCormick, the consequences of their recklessness could have been the same or much worse than they were in his case.

Lazaat wrote:
There has been some very extreme comments on here over the past few days including the phrase "murdering b@$t@rd" which I have found very distasteful! A few posters who have said he has served his time according to the law of the land have been shot down and ridiculed and when I personally posted that I have no intention of not supporting the club and we should move on I was called a "narrow minded fool" and the poster doubted I had children of my own (I have 3 children)! I have been quite shocked and alarmed by the extremism of some Swindon fans! Jesus said "those of you without sin cast the first stone".....

redjet wrote:

Oi Den! wrote:

Stratton Red wrote:

stokes_stfc wrote: i'm glad that jeremy did these last couple of interviews, cause it's cleared up the clubs intentions... i do not want to see LM signed on a professional contract, as I don't think he should be allowed to go straight back into the public eye, almost as if nothing had happened. however, i will fully support the club in allowing him to train with them, providing the first step for him to reintegrate into society.

I don't think it has cleared up the clubs intention. JW states -we’ve made it clear that he is not signing a contract. I want to hear JW say he will NEVER sign a professional football contract with STFC. * I also don't like his comment - If the weight of opinion is such that the argument for compassion and giving someone a second chance was not taken. - I think most of us on here welcome and would be proud of the club that played an active role in helping the community - however this is not black and white, there are degrees of crime and what we are talking about is not petty theft. Would we help out footballers who were conviced of rape or sleeping with underage kids or child abuse? - there has to be a line. We rightly promote our club as a family club and I'm afraid (rightly or wrongly) a man that drink drove and destroyed the lives of a family by killing two kids is up there for me - and Mr Wray this is not an extreme view! * The other thing that doesn't sit well with me is even if we are not/never going to sign him are we by helping him play football helping him back to play with another club? I don't think he should play professional football again, especially after he said he wouldn't. * Like I said in my very first post on this subject, if we agree to help him it should be in a non footballing / community role. I don't accept the argument that footballs his trade. Would those of you with kids let a conviced pedo teacher back teaching becuase it's his trade? so the jury on JW is still out for me...

Stratton, the difference is that rapists and child abusers cause deliberate harm to their victims. McCormick did not set out to crash his car, let alone kill anyone. We are all angry when people, especially children, are killed in avoidable circumstances but how can you possibly equate McCormick with rapists and child abusers? If you do, what do you think about Best, Adams, Davis, Beagrie, Beattie and all the rest of football's drink drivers? Do you believe they should never have been allowed to play football again? (Sadly for Davis, he deprived himself of that opportunity). When they made the same decision as McCormick, the consequences of their recklessness could have been the same or much worse than they were in his case.

Sorry but when he drove a vehicle at twice the legal limit and having no sleep, he made a conscious decision to potentially kill someone. Unfortunately he achieved the full potential.

jam1 wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote: If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

Talk about missing the point redjet! Jesus Christ!

Fully behind you Jeremy as are the majority of town fans with the capacity to take a step back and think rationally about this highly emotive subject before spouting off in a very black and white simplistic fashion.

I agree with a previous poster who said he/she was ashamed at the stance taken by quite a few posters on the forums over the last few days.

Unfortunately is does hightlight the fact that, with the greatest respect, some of our fans are simple minded folk (i'm sure thats the same with a lot of clubs however, being a working class sport and all that) who lack the ability to understand why the board are doing what they're doing.

Dont know how many listed to the 5live debate last night.

Couple of callers saying they were going to rip up their tickets to Jeremy etc.. One woman wasn't the brightest bless her, no real intelligent input other than 'my children worship the players so I couldn't take them'... luckily we had a much more balanced view from rachel later on...

Also a guy called in who's son had been killed in a drink driving tragedy.

He commended and admired Jeremy for what he and the club was doing and said quite clearly that luke deserved to have a second chance and that he could potentially offer a lot with regards to community projects.

A very powerful statement that some people should really listen to.

Jeremy I know this must be a little frustrating for you, but you are doing an amazing job as chairman and most are more than aware of this. Paolo is doing an amazing job as Manager and we are incredibly lucky to have you.

I along with my large network of Town fans would like to say we are with you on this matter and have the utmost respect you and your team.

Of course my thoughts go out to the parents of two boys killed in this horrific tragedy. They will live with this for the rest of their lives and should be in all of our hearts. In a different way, so will Luke though...

old town robin wrote:

Lazaat wrote:
There has been some very extreme comments on here over the past few days including the phrase "murdering b@$t@rd" which I have found very distasteful! A few posters who have said he has served his time according to the law of the land have been shot down and ridiculed and when I personally posted that I have no intention of not supporting the club and we should move on I was called a "narrow minded fool" and the poster doubted I had children of my own (I have 3 children)! I have been quite shocked and alarmed by the extremism of some Swindon fans! Jesus said "those of you without sin cast the first stone".....

Lazaat, exactly the reason i will only comment occassionally on here in future. The lack of reasoning of some, (not just on this subject) is unbelievable, they think they know it all and they're opinion is the only one that count and result in abusing other posters. With regards to McCormick, too many seem to think they are Judge, Jury and executioner and as you said have NEVER made a mistake in their lives. All I can say is all for the grace of God, go I.

old town robin wrote:

Lazaat wrote: There has been some very extreme comments on here over the past few days including the phrase "murdering b@$t@rd" which I have found very distasteful! A few posters who have said he has served his time according to the law of the land have been shot down and ridiculed and when I personally posted that I have no intention of not supporting the club and we should move on I was called a "narrow minded fool" and the poster doubted I had children of my own (I have 3 children)! I have been quite shocked and alarmed by the extremism of some Swindon fans! Jesus said "those of you without sin cast the first stone".....

Lazaat, exactly the reason i will only comment occassionally on here in future. The lack of reasoning of some, (not just on this subject) is unbelievable, they think they know it all and they're opinion is the only one that count and result in abusing other posters. With regards to McCormick, too many seem to think they are Judge, Jury and executioner and as you said have NEVER made a mistake in their lives. All I can say is all for the grace of God, go I.

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote: If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

Talk about missing the point redjet! Jesus Christ! Fully behind you Jeremy as are the majority of town fans with the capacity to take a step back and think rationally about this highly emotive subject before spouting off in a very black and white simplistic fashion. I agree with a previous poster who said he/she was ashamed at the stance taken by quite a few posters on the forums over the last few days. Unfortunately is does hightlight the fact that, with the greatest respect, some of our fans are simple minded folk (i'm sure thats the same with a lot of clubs however, being a working class sport and all that) who lack the ability to understand why the board are doing what they're doing. Dont know how many listed to the 5live debate last night. Couple of callers saying they were going to rip up their tickets to Jeremy etc.. One woman wasn't the brightest bless her, no real intelligent input other than 'my children worship the players so I couldn't take them'... luckily we had a much more balanced view from rachel later on... Also a guy called in who's son had been killed in a drink driving tragedy. He commended and admired Jeremy for what he and the club was doing and said quite clearly that luke deserved to have a second chance and that he could potentially offer a lot with regards to community projects. A very powerful statement that some people should really listen to. Jeremy I know this must be a little frustrating for you, but you are doing an amazing job as chairman and most are more than aware of this. Paolo is doing an amazing job as Manager and we are incredibly lucky to have you. I along with my large network of Town fans would like to say we are with you on this matter and have the utmost respect you and your team. Of course my thoughts go out to the parents of two boys killed in this horrific tragedy. They will live with this for the rest of their lives and should be in all of our hearts. In a different way, so will Luke though...

Yes very condescending, of course you are right and the rest of us are just working class morons at best. Whilst I appreciate that you are obviously much much more intelligent than every one else who's opinion differs from your obviously correct one, please let us less worthy simple minded folk have our say. Again it is so obvious that your opinion will prevail, because it so correct, so what difference will debate make to your higher intelligence on the outcome. Apologies to those simple folk on here but I had to use words with more than 4 letters, I hope you could understand them.... Really some people!

LionelHutz wrote:
Well said Jeremy. I really do think this whole topic has brought out the very worst of some of our ill-educated fanbase. Sure it is an emotive issue but, like you, I'm sure the more switched on of us can see the bigger picture.

Once someone has served the sentence handed to them by the courts of law, they should be able to resume their career.

That his sentence was a short one is not our concern. If people feel strongly about that they should be writing to their MP, not spouting drivel on internet forums.

I fully support your stance Jeremy and hope you will be at our club for many years to come.

madterrier wrote:
I think it will be extremely difficult for LM to carve out a career in football, particularly as he's a goalkeeper. Offenders need to be rehabilitated and someone needs to employ them. I just think he is going to have to find another trade. If it was me - I'd find another country. Rehab doesn't mean just letting someone get fit - eventually it has to mean employing them. And that's when nimbyism kicks in. But he is going to be given a trial at the club, which has two outcomes - we give him a contract or we don't. JW's intentions are honourable and he's spoken well on the matter - I've listened to some of the interviews. No-one else in football has really backed him up though. Where is Gordon Taylor on this? He usually defends any footballer for any misdemeanour. Or the FA? But this idea is doomed to fail, and will cause the club and its fans a lot of grief in the process. Whichever club takes him on is going to suffer massively. If our own fans react this way then wait for the fans of other 91 clubs to vilify us. I certainly don't think it is a resigning issue. Jeremy Wray has been an excellent chairman and I hope he stays to build on the good work. But the club's fans are the people who pay to watch and I would hope our views are taken into account. However I would expect McCormick to resolve the situation by walking away.

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote: If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

Talk about missing the point redjet! Jesus Christ! Fully behind you Jeremy as are the majority of town fans with the capacity to take a step back and think rationally about this highly emotive subject before spouting off in a very black and white simplistic fashion. I agree with a previous poster who said he/she was ashamed at the stance taken by quite a few posters on the forums over the last few days. Unfortunately is does hightlight the fact that, with the greatest respect, some of our fans are simple minded folk (i'm sure thats the same with a lot of clubs however, being a working class sport and all that) who lack the ability to understand why the board are doing what they're doing. Dont know how many listed to the 5live debate last night. Couple of callers saying they were going to rip up their tickets to Jeremy etc.. One woman wasn't the brightest bless her, no real intelligent input other than 'my children worship the players so I couldn't take them'... luckily we had a much more balanced view from rachel later on... Also a guy called in who's son had been killed in a drink driving tragedy. He commended and admired Jeremy for what he and the club was doing and said quite clearly that luke deserved to have a second chance and that he could potentially offer a lot with regards to community projects. A very powerful statement that some people should really listen to. Jeremy I know this must be a little frustrating for you, but you are doing an amazing job as chairman and most are more than aware of this. Paolo is doing an amazing job as Manager and we are incredibly lucky to have you. I along with my large network of Town fans would like to say we are with you on this matter and have the utmost respect you and your team. Of course my thoughts go out to the parents of two boys killed in this horrific tragedy. They will live with this for the rest of their lives and should be in all of our hearts. In a different way, so will Luke though...

Yes very condescending, of course you are right and the rest of us are just working class morons at best. Whilst I appreciate that you are obviously much much more intelligent than every one else who's opinion differs from your obviously correct one, please let us less worthy simple minded folk have our say. Again it is so obvious that your opinion will prevail, because it so correct, so what difference will debate make to your higher intelligence on the outcome. Apologies to those simple folk on here but I had to use words with more than 4 letters, I hope you could understand them.... Really some people!

Again, with the greatest respect, this confirms part of my point.

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote: If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

Talk about missing the point redjet! Jesus Christ! Fully behind you Jeremy as are the majority of town fans with the capacity to take a step back and think rationally about this highly emotive subject before spouting off in a very black and white simplistic fashion. I agree with a previous poster who said he/she was ashamed at the stance taken by quite a few posters on the forums over the last few days. Unfortunately is does hightlight the fact that, with the greatest respect, some of our fans are simple minded folk (i'm sure thats the same with a lot of clubs however, being a working class sport and all that) who lack the ability to understand why the board are doing what they're doing. Dont know how many listed to the 5live debate last night. Couple of callers saying they were going to rip up their tickets to Jeremy etc.. One woman wasn't the brightest bless her, no real intelligent input other than 'my children worship the players so I couldn't take them'... luckily we had a much more balanced view from rachel later on... Also a guy called in who's son had been killed in a drink driving tragedy. He commended and admired Jeremy for what he and the club was doing and said quite clearly that luke deserved to have a second chance and that he could potentially offer a lot with regards to community projects. A very powerful statement that some people should really listen to. Jeremy I know this must be a little frustrating for you, but you are doing an amazing job as chairman and most are more than aware of this. Paolo is doing an amazing job as Manager and we are incredibly lucky to have you. I along with my large network of Town fans would like to say we are with you on this matter and have the utmost respect you and your team. Of course my thoughts go out to the parents of two boys killed in this horrific tragedy. They will live with this for the rest of their lives and should be in all of our hearts. In a different way, so will Luke though...

Yes very condescending, of course you are right and the rest of us are just working class morons at best. Whilst I appreciate that you are obviously much much more intelligent than every one else who's opinion differs from your obviously correct one, please let us less worthy simple minded folk have our say. Again it is so obvious that your opinion will prevail, because it so correct, so what difference will debate make to your higher intelligence on the outcome. Apologies to those simple folk on here but I had to use words with more than 4 letters, I hope you could understand them.... Really some people!

Again, with the greatest respect, this confirms part of my point.

I was being Facetious, I don't really think you that intelligent, which in the whole proves my point. No doubt you will want the last word on this. So as I can't be bothered helping you see how arrogant you are, I have blocked you id from my feed. Goodbye.

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote: If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

Talk about missing the point redjet! Jesus Christ! Fully behind you Jeremy as are the majority of town fans with the capacity to take a step back and think rationally about this highly emotive subject before spouting off in a very black and white simplistic fashion. I agree with a previous poster who said he/she was ashamed at the stance taken by quite a few posters on the forums over the last few days. Unfortunately is does hightlight the fact that, with the greatest respect, some of our fans are simple minded folk (i'm sure thats the same with a lot of clubs however, being a working class sport and all that) who lack the ability to understand why the board are doing what they're doing. Dont know how many listed to the 5live debate last night. Couple of callers saying they were going to rip up their tickets to Jeremy etc.. One woman wasn't the brightest bless her, no real intelligent input other than 'my children worship the players so I couldn't take them'... luckily we had a much more balanced view from rachel later on... Also a guy called in who's son had been killed in a drink driving tragedy. He commended and admired Jeremy for what he and the club was doing and said quite clearly that luke deserved to have a second chance and that he could potentially offer a lot with regards to community projects. A very powerful statement that some people should really listen to. Jeremy I know this must be a little frustrating for you, but you are doing an amazing job as chairman and most are more than aware of this. Paolo is doing an amazing job as Manager and we are incredibly lucky to have you. I along with my large network of Town fans would like to say we are with you on this matter and have the utmost respect you and your team. Of course my thoughts go out to the parents of two boys killed in this horrific tragedy. They will live with this for the rest of their lives and should be in all of our hearts. In a different way, so will Luke though...

Yes very condescending, of course you are right and the rest of us are just working class morons at best. Whilst I appreciate that you are obviously much much more intelligent than every one else who's opinion differs from your obviously correct one, please let us less worthy simple minded folk have our say. Again it is so obvious that your opinion will prevail, because it so correct, so what difference will debate make to your higher intelligence on the outcome. Apologies to those simple folk on here but I had to use words with more than 4 letters, I hope you could understand them.... Really some people!

Again, with the greatest respect, this confirms part of my point.

I was being Facetious, I don't really think you that intelligent, which in the whole proves my point. No doubt you will want the last word on this. So as I can't be bothered helping you see how arrogant you are, I have blocked you id from my feed. Goodbye.

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote: If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

Talk about missing the point redjet! Jesus Christ! Fully behind you Jeremy as are the majority of town fans with the capacity to take a step back and think rationally about this highly emotive subject before spouting off in a very black and white simplistic fashion. I agree with a previous poster who said he/she was ashamed at the stance taken by quite a few posters on the forums over the last few days. Unfortunately is does hightlight the fact that, with the greatest respect, some of our fans are simple minded folk (i'm sure thats the same with a lot of clubs however, being a working class sport and all that) who lack the ability to understand why the board are doing what they're doing. Dont know how many listed to the 5live debate last night. Couple of callers saying they were going to rip up their tickets to Jeremy etc.. One woman wasn't the brightest bless her, no real intelligent input other than 'my children worship the players so I couldn't take them'... luckily we had a much more balanced view from rachel later on... Also a guy called in who's son had been killed in a drink driving tragedy. He commended and admired Jeremy for what he and the club was doing and said quite clearly that luke deserved to have a second chance and that he could potentially offer a lot with regards to community projects. A very powerful statement that some people should really listen to. Jeremy I know this must be a little frustrating for you, but you are doing an amazing job as chairman and most are more than aware of this. Paolo is doing an amazing job as Manager and we are incredibly lucky to have you. I along with my large network of Town fans would like to say we are with you on this matter and have the utmost respect you and your team. Of course my thoughts go out to the parents of two boys killed in this horrific tragedy. They will live with this for the rest of their lives and should be in all of our hearts. In a different way, so will Luke though...

Yes very condescending, of course you are right and the rest of us are just working class morons at best. Whilst I appreciate that you are obviously much much more intelligent than every one else who's opinion differs from your obviously correct one, please let us less worthy simple minded folk have our say. Again it is so obvious that your opinion will prevail, because it so correct, so what difference will debate make to your higher intelligence on the outcome. Apologies to those simple folk on here but I had to use words with more than 4 letters, I hope you could understand them.... Really some people!

Again, with the greatest respect, this confirms part of my point.

I was being Facetious, I don't really think you that intelligent, which in the whole proves my point. No doubt you will want the last word on this. So as I can't be bothered helping you see how arrogant you are, I have blocked you id from my feed. Goodbye.

Have you ever heard the proverb - give a man enough rope and he will hand himself?

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote: If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

Talk about missing the point redjet! Jesus Christ! Fully behind you Jeremy as are the majority of town fans with the capacity to take a step back and think rationally about this highly emotive subject before spouting off in a very black and white simplistic fashion. I agree with a previous poster who said he/she was ashamed at the stance taken by quite a few posters on the forums over the last few days. Unfortunately is does hightlight the fact that, with the greatest respect, some of our fans are simple minded folk (i'm sure thats the same with a lot of clubs however, being a working class sport and all that) who lack the ability to understand why the board are doing what they're doing. Dont know how many listed to the 5live debate last night. Couple of callers saying they were going to rip up their tickets to Jeremy etc.. One woman wasn't the brightest bless her, no real intelligent input other than 'my children worship the players so I couldn't take them'... luckily we had a much more balanced view from rachel later on... Also a guy called in who's son had been killed in a drink driving tragedy. He commended and admired Jeremy for what he and the club was doing and said quite clearly that luke deserved to have a second chance and that he could potentially offer a lot with regards to community projects. A very powerful statement that some people should really listen to. Jeremy I know this must be a little frustrating for you, but you are doing an amazing job as chairman and most are more than aware of this. Paolo is doing an amazing job as Manager and we are incredibly lucky to have you. I along with my large network of Town fans would like to say we are with you on this matter and have the utmost respect you and your team. Of course my thoughts go out to the parents of two boys killed in this horrific tragedy. They will live with this for the rest of their lives and should be in all of our hearts. In a different way, so will Luke though...

Yes very condescending, of course you are right and the rest of us are just working class morons at best. Whilst I appreciate that you are obviously much much more intelligent than every one else who's opinion differs from your obviously correct one, please let us less worthy simple minded folk have our say. Again it is so obvious that your opinion will prevail, because it so correct, so what difference will debate make to your higher intelligence on the outcome. Apologies to those simple folk on here but I had to use words with more than 4 letters, I hope you could understand them.... Really some people!

Again, with the greatest respect, this confirms part of my point.

I was being Facetious, I don't really think you that intelligent, which in the whole proves my point. No doubt you will want the last word on this. So as I can't be bothered helping you see how arrogant you are, I have blocked you id from my feed. Goodbye.

Have you ever heard the proverb - give a man enough rope and he will hand himself?

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote: If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

Talk about missing the point redjet! Jesus Christ! Fully behind you Jeremy as are the majority of town fans with the capacity to take a step back and think rationally about this highly emotive subject before spouting off in a very black and white simplistic fashion. I agree with a previous poster who said he/she was ashamed at the stance taken by quite a few posters on the forums over the last few days. Unfortunately is does hightlight the fact that, with the greatest respect, some of our fans are simple minded folk (i'm sure thats the same with a lot of clubs however, being a working class sport and all that) who lack the ability to understand why the board are doing what they're doing. Dont know how many listed to the 5live debate last night. Couple of callers saying they were going to rip up their tickets to Jeremy etc.. One woman wasn't the brightest bless her, no real intelligent input other than 'my children worship the players so I couldn't take them'... luckily we had a much more balanced view from rachel later on... Also a guy called in who's son had been killed in a drink driving tragedy. He commended and admired Jeremy for what he and the club was doing and said quite clearly that luke deserved to have a second chance and that he could potentially offer a lot with regards to community projects. A very powerful statement that some people should really listen to. Jeremy I know this must be a little frustrating for you, but you are doing an amazing job as chairman and most are more than aware of this. Paolo is doing an amazing job as Manager and we are incredibly lucky to have you. I along with my large network of Town fans would like to say we are with you on this matter and have the utmost respect you and your team. Of course my thoughts go out to the parents of two boys killed in this horrific tragedy. They will live with this for the rest of their lives and should be in all of our hearts. In a different way, so will Luke though...

Yes very condescending, of course you are right and the rest of us are just working class morons at best. Whilst I appreciate that you are obviously much much more intelligent than every one else who's opinion differs from your obviously correct one, please let us less worthy simple minded folk have our say. Again it is so obvious that your opinion will prevail, because it so correct, so what difference will debate make to your higher intelligence on the outcome. Apologies to those simple folk on here but I had to use words with more than 4 letters, I hope you could understand them.... Really some people!

Again, with the greatest respect, this confirms part of my point.

I was being Facetious, I don't really think you that intelligent, which in the whole proves my point. No doubt you will want the last word on this. So as I can't be bothered helping you see how arrogant you are, I have blocked you id from my feed. Goodbye.

Have you ever heard the proverb - give a man enough rope and he will hand himself?

Yes, I have a red face and neck to go with it :(

faatmaan wrote:
as i see it , it is the hyporitical stance of marginal hooligan being banned from football for life, yet a person convicted of ending 3 peoples lives is allowed to re-enter football, it is a sad reflection of the standard of english football that we are unable to find an english goalkeeper of suitable quality.

BorisIsTheSpider wrote:
I fully support the chairman. Football in the community cuts both ways. I cannot help but marvel at the hypocricy and narrow-mindedness of some football fans. What if Jimmy Davis had survived and the lorry driver had died? Would the dissenting fans have a different attitude? I somehow think they would.

TenerifeRed wrote:
The story has changed completely since it was originally reported and now doesn't seem quite as bad as was initially feared.

Originally it was reported we were offering LM a trial with the prospect of a footballing contract at our club.
Personally I could never support that and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either, at this or any other club.

Now it's about helping LM back into the community? Well, that's entirely different and sure, I can live with that, as long as it doesn't lead to a footballing contract.

Not one Town fan will want to lose JW over this issue and as long as it remains a non-footballing issue we won't.
Personally I don't expect LM to ever play again.
Could you really imagine him in our goal?
Clapping him onto the pitch? Singing his name? Hero-worshipping him when he saves a penalty?
No, he's not someone I want to put on a pedestal.

He made his choice the day he got into his car whilst over the limit, even though his friends were telling him not to.
It was a life changing, devastating choice - but it was his choice.
He should now make another choice and choose a career that doesn't involve being in the limelight and the idol of thousands.
He's had 3 years to think it through and now's the time to move on with his life, with or without STFCs help.

faatmaan wrote:
as i see it , it is the hyporitical stance of marginal hooligan being banned from football for life, yet a person convicted of ending 3 peoples lives is allowed to re-enter football, it is a sad reflection of the standard of english football that we are unable to find an english goalkeeper of suitable quality.

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

redjet wrote:

jam1 wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote:

redjet wrote:

STFCOntario wrote: If i was Jeremy Wray and see this kind of reaction from my home town.. and it doesnt change, i would resign also and advise Palo and most players to go elsewhere.. at the embarrassment of poor minded swindon people.. the town deservers to stay in lower leagues over the attitude of its people.. im a shamed to have been born in swindon listening to these comments over the last days.. didnt realize the people of swindon where poor minded people.. success little do they realize it.. comes from standing up and beng different.. not following the crowd.. Jeremy Wray is an Excellent man and Palo too.. great characters and will be ideal for Luke McCormick rehabilitation.. Good for them.. i applauded such men.

Thats helpful

thats helpful !! yes its about doing the right thing, if the people disagree against the right action then find a new manager and chairman... besure Palo is watching you too.. why waste time in a town of poor selfish thinking people... life is more than football.. JW and PDC know it too.. and do help the unfortunate.. but thats beyond simple minded selfish thinking men. move on Mr W and PDC the people of swindon have no heart they are just stone cold.

Helpful again!!

How about instead of telling our Chairman and Manager to leave the Town, you suggest that they stay and try to change peoples opinion from within, instead you rally them to walk away and wash their hands of it all. That would make them weak characters and think even you must agree Jwray and PDC are not weak in character.

Yes i agree with you.. they should try to change the minds of the people.. but if the people dont listen to what JW has already said then hes telling you the outcome.. your right JW and PDC are not weak charcter.. thats very strong charcter so listen closely to what is being told you.. back the management or get new one.. .. and standing by his decsion to doing the best for someone who others would ratrher pass on to someone else to make it there issue.. which is poor charcter people.

Talk about missing the point redjet! Jesus Christ! Fully behind you Jeremy as are the majority of town fans with the capacity to take a step back and think rationally about this highly emotive subject before spouting off in a very black and white simplistic fashion. I agree with a previous poster who said he/she was ashamed at the stance taken by quite a few posters on the forums over the last few days. Unfortunately is does hightlight the fact that, with the greatest respect, some of our fans are simple minded folk (i'm sure thats the same with a lot of clubs however, being a working class sport and all that) who lack the ability to understand why the board are doing what they're doing. Dont know how many listed to the 5live debate last night. Couple of callers saying they were going to rip up their tickets to Jeremy etc.. One woman wasn't the brightest bless her, no real intelligent input other than 'my children worship the players so I couldn't take them'... luckily we had a much more balanced view from rachel later on... Also a guy called in who's son had been killed in a drink driving tragedy. He commended and admired Jeremy for what he and the club was doing and said quite clearly that luke deserved to have a second chance and that he could potentially offer a lot with regards to community projects. A very powerful statement that some people should really listen to. Jeremy I know this must be a little frustrating for you, but you are doing an amazing job as chairman and most are more than aware of this. Paolo is doing an amazing job as Manager and we are incredibly lucky to have you. I along with my large network of Town fans would like to say we are with you on this matter and have the utmost respect you and your team. Of course my thoughts go out to the parents of two boys killed in this horrific tragedy. They will live with this for the rest of their lives and should be in all of our hearts. In a different way, so will Luke though...

Yes very condescending, of course you are right and the rest of us are just working class morons at best. Whilst I appreciate that you are obviously much much more intelligent than every one else who's opinion differs from your obviously correct one, please let us less worthy simple minded folk have our say. Again it is so obvious that your opinion will prevail, because it so correct, so what difference will debate make to your higher intelligence on the outcome. Apologies to those simple folk on here but I had to use words with more than 4 letters, I hope you could understand them.... Really some people!

Again, with the greatest respect, this confirms part of my point.

I was being Facetious, I don't really think you that intelligent, which in the whole proves my point. No doubt you will want the last word on this. So as I can't be bothered helping you see how arrogant you are, I have blocked you id from my feed. Goodbye.

Have you ever heard the proverb - give a man enough rope and he will hand himself?

Yes, I have a red face and neck to go with it :(

Either that or an achy wrist!

In all seriousness though this is a very emotional issue and I back Jeremy, the board and Paolo completely on their decision.

the wizard wrote:
Perhaps if over the next few weeks The Town do sign another GK then that will further underline and endorse JW's stance on this that LM will not be in a Town shirt for the foreseeable future. Perhaps that will quell the doubters of JW's sincerity on this issue.

redjet wrote:

the wizard wrote:
Perhaps if over the next few weeks The Town do sign another GK then that will further underline and endorse JW's stance on this that LM will not be in a Town shirt for the foreseeable future. Perhaps that will quell the doubters of JW's sincerity on this issue.

I don't think anyone is doubting JW's sincerity to be fair. I think is very sincere. The issue I think most people have is that he has not stone wall said LM will not PLAY for the club, ever. If he did I think this whole mess would just disappear as quick as it arrived. While there is still a hint that he may at sometime get a contract for Town it will not. Unfortunately his statements so far have left the door to LM being signed for Town.

madterrier wrote:
I think it will be extremely difficult for LM to carve out a career in football, particularly as he's a goalkeeper. Offenders need to be rehabilitated and someone needs to employ them. I just think he is going to have to find another trade. If it was me - I'd find another country.

Rehab doesn't mean just letting someone get fit - eventually it has to mean employing them. And that's when nimbyism kicks in. But he is going to be given a trial at the club, which has two outcomes - we give him a contract or we don't.

JW's intentions are honourable and he's spoken well on the matter - I've listened to some of the interviews. No-one else in football has really backed him up though. Where is Gordon Taylor on this? He usually defends any footballer for any misdemeanour. Or the FA?

But this idea is doomed to fail, and will cause the club and its fans a lot of grief in the process.
Whichever club takes him on is going to suffer massively. If our own fans react this way then wait for the fans of other 91 clubs to vilify us.

I certainly don't think it is a resigning issue. Jeremy Wray has been an excellent chairman and I hope he stays to build on the good work.

But the club's fans are the people who pay to watch and I would hope our views are taken into account. However I would expect McCormick to resolve the situation by walking away.

Oi Den! wrote:
Stratton, we will never agree because I do not think it is right to judge a person's worth on the unintended consequences of his actions. For all we know, STFC, as a family club, could gain considerable benefit from McCormick's involvement. Perhaps more than most us, he will know the value of life, paticularly young life. I think that, as a father, you are not seeing beyond the fact that two boys were killed. As a father of grown up children, I understand that. But I ask you this: Suppose one of your young children grows up to be a decent, well-adjusted individual but makes one terrible mistake and does something like McCormick has done. Would you say that your son / daughter has no place in a family-orientated environment or would you think it better that he/she is rehabilitated and actually puts something into a family environment? You might be thinking "that would never happen in my family" - but the fact is it could happen in any family. I don't think for one moment that McCormick's parents thought it would happen in theirs. A sobering thought.

glasred wrote:
J Wray is not saying my way or bye way,he has said that if the MAJORITY of STFC fans cant support his decisions as interim chairman,his position becomes untenable. Fortunately,I believe that the majority of supporters will want the good work JW has done to continue (including keeping PDC as manager). This issue could destroy all that has been achieved this season,simply because JW would care to help rehabilitate LM. HOW SAD IS THAT

M-Y-O-B wrote:
I personally don't wan't JW to quit as up until this happened he has contributed to providing us with a more solid robust club, making good decisions and supporting PDC etc.
However like someone said previously this situation will last longer than we want in the eye's of others.
I don't work in Swindon and have just had 3 days of snide remarks and questioning of our club's credentials as if I had decided all this.
I'm going away this weekend and have even taken my STFC shirt out of my bag to prevent any further confrontation!!!!!!!



It's still an error of judgement in my eyes and the sort of thing you know happens, have your view and don't want it at your club.

thesixtyniner wrote:
Mr Wray needs to accept the opinions of those who, for once, have disagreed with him. It's not his job to rehabilitate footballers. Many of us have no issue with second chances and have no interest in castigating someone who may or may not deserve one. But that's a world away from welcoming and courting such a player. The football club comes first. It comes before me, before Mr. Wray and it certainly comes before McCormick. Many professions, including mine, do not allow people with criminal records. That doesn't make my profession a bad one, or a dishonest one or an uncaring one.

Since 1950 wrote:

madterrier wrote: I think it will be extremely difficult for LM to carve out a career in football, particularly as he's a goalkeeper. Offenders need to be rehabilitated and someone needs to employ them. I just think he is going to have to find another trade. If it was me - I'd find another country. Rehab doesn't mean just letting someone get fit - eventually it has to mean employing them. And that's when nimbyism kicks in. But he is going to be given a trial at the club, which has two outcomes - we give him a contract or we don't. JW's intentions are honourable and he's spoken well on the matter - I've listened to some of the interviews. No-one else in football has really backed him up though. Where is Gordon Taylor on this? He usually defends any footballer for any misdemeanour. Or the FA? But this idea is doomed to fail, and will cause the club and its fans a lot of grief in the process. Whichever club takes him on is going to suffer massively. If our own fans react this way then wait for the fans of other 91 clubs to vilify us. I certainly don't think it is a resigning issue. Jeremy Wray has been an excellent chairman and I hope he stays to build on the good work. But the club's fans are the people who pay to watch and I would hope our views are taken into account. However I would expect McCormick to resolve the situation by walking away.

Now that's a good post.

thesixtyniner wrote:
Sorry, Jam1, you're now suggesting that by us disagreeing with Jeremy Wray over one solitary issue, that the corollary of that would be to lose both Jeremy Wray AND Paolo Di Canio. Seriously?! I think we need a little perspective here.

swindon69 wrote:
I'm currently listening to the Radio 5 Live debate and the saying "mountain out of a molehill" comes to mind. Luke McCormick is NOT being signed by STFC, he is simply being given the opportunity to use the club's facilities to rehabilitate himself. Listen to Jeremy Wray on the iPlayer and then make a reasoned argument. The whole point of the British justice system is punishment and rehabilitation of offenders. The role STFC is playing in Luke McCormick's case is exactly that - rehabilitation. With reference to my earlier post, I feel Jeremy Wray and the club are to be commended for the part they are playing in McCormick's rehabilitation. Perhaps they should next try their hand at rehabilitating Joey Barton although, in Barton's case, that would be a lost cause.

Pinehurstred wrote:
Message to Jeremy Wray ... IF it was your kids would you still fell it your job to help him back in to football or any job ????

Blazing Riff wrote:

swindon69 wrote:
I'm currently listening to the Radio 5 Live debate and the saying "mountain out of a molehill" comes to mind. Luke McCormick is NOT being signed by STFC, he is simply being given the opportunity to use the club's facilities to rehabilitate himself. Listen to Jeremy Wray on the iPlayer and then make a reasoned argument. The whole point of the British justice system is punishment and rehabilitation of offenders. The role STFC is playing in Luke McCormick's case is exactly that - rehabilitation. With reference to my earlier post, I feel Jeremy Wray and the club are to be commended for the part they are playing in McCormick's rehabilitation. Perhaps they should next try their hand at rehabilitating Joey Barton although, in Barton's case, that would be a lost cause.

Please see my earlier post at 9.33am. This whole shambles started as a reaction to either an ill-considered piece of journalism or, an apparent poor choice of words by JW who now seems to be saying something else!. Either way, we the fans, the victim's family and, anyone else connected to this whole debacle should be told the truth with an apology from whoever got it wrong if, that is the case. What an unecessary mess!

jam1 wrote:

Pinehurstred wrote:
Message to Jeremy Wray ... IF it was your kids would you still fell it your job to help him back in to football or any job ????

What if it was your son in Luke Mccormicks position? Or your brother, or your best friend....

jam1 wrote:

Pinehurstred wrote:
Message to Jeremy Wray ... IF it was your kids would you still fell it your job to help him back in to football or any job ????

What if it was your son in Luke Mccormicks position? Or your brother, or your best friend....

the don69 wrote:

jam1 wrote:

Pinehurstred wrote:
Message to Jeremy Wray ... IF it was your kids would you still fell it your job to help him back in to football or any job ????

What if it was your son in Luke Mccormicks position? Or your brother, or your best friend....

If's,but's,could be,should be,might have deal with reality,or LM and J-Wray must,Why J-Wray had to bring this Sh1t to our club,it's a PR disaster!what are we Swindon Samaritans now????????

Oi Den! wrote:

the don69 wrote:

jam1 wrote:

Pinehurstred wrote:
Message to Jeremy Wray ... IF it was your kids would you still fell it your job to help him back in to football or any job ????

What if it was your son in Luke Mccormicks position? Or your brother, or your best friend....

If's,but's,could be,should be,might have deal with reality,or LM and J-Wray must,Why J-Wray had to bring this Sh1t to our club,it's a PR disaster!what are we Swindon Samaritans now????????

Don, how can you say he's a sh1t, when all you know of him is this one incident? Maybe he is a sh1t, maybe he's not - I have no idea. Many footballers have been convicted of driving while over the alcohol limit by more than McCormick. Are they all sh1ts? And if so, would you refuse to have any of them at our club?

EastleazeRed wrote:
Not surprised by this statement after some of the comments i have read on here the past couple of days. Some of the posters on here want to be ashamed of themselves Swindon fans my arse.

red white wrote:
WE ARE SWINDON.

WE'RE TOP OF THE LEAGUE!

the don69 wrote:
Poor ol Danny,we might meet again(if he's not sacked)blown it again never should have been in the play-off's,just like us two years ago!!!!!!!!

the don69 wrote:
Poor ol Danny,we might meet again(if he's not sacked)blown it again never should have been in the play-off's,just like us two years ago!!!!!!!!

Pinehurstred wrote:

the don69 wrote: Poor ol Danny,we might meet again(if he's not sacked)blown it again never should have been in the play-off's,just like us two years ago!!!!!!!!

SPOT ON Don.. spoke to a utd last week and Wilson done exactly the same as he did with use... The last 10 games changed everything

smirg kcab wrote:

Pinehurstred wrote:

the don69 wrote: Poor ol Danny,we might meet again(if he's not sacked)blown it again never should have been in the play-off's,just like us two years ago!!!!!!!!

SPOT ON Don.. spoke to a utd last week and Wilson done exactly the same as he did with use... The last 10 games changed everything

and they all called me a poxford supporter when i said he should have been sacked just before we got to the playoffs.
oh life just gets better.
we should have walked the league after leeds away, and unt should have walked it this year untill the motionless wilson fuucks it up again.
onwards and upwards

smirg kcab wrote:

Pinehurstred wrote:

the don69 wrote: Poor ol Danny,we might meet again(if he's not sacked)blown it again never should have been in the play-off's,just like us two years ago!!!!!!!!

SPOT ON Don.. spoke to a utd last week and Wilson done exactly the same as he did with use... The last 10 games changed everything

and they all called me a poxford supporter when i said he should have been sacked just before we got to the playoffs.
oh life just gets better.
we should have walked the league after leeds away, and unt should have walked it this year untill the motionless wilson fuucks it up again.
onwards and upwards

the don69 wrote:

Oi Den! wrote:

the don69 wrote:

jam1 wrote:

Pinehurstred wrote:
Message to Jeremy Wray ... IF it was your kids would you still fell it your job to help him back in to football or any job ????

What if it was your son in Luke Mccormicks position? Or your brother, or your best friend....

If's,but's,could be,should be,might have deal with reality,or LM and J-Wray must,Why J-Wray had to bring this Sh1t to our club,it's a PR disaster!what are we Swindon Samaritans now????????

Don, how can you say he's a sh1t, when all you know of him is this one incident? Maybe he is a sh1t, maybe he's not - I have no idea. Many footballers have been convicted of driving while over the alcohol limit by more than McCormick. Are they all sh1ts? And if so, would you refuse to have any of them at our club?

Never said LM was Sh1t Den!the whole Cr@py thing is Sh1t,best leave it to the probation Service and PFA,we have nothing to do with this,until J-Wray does his do-gooder Act.

the don69 wrote:

smirg kcab wrote:

Pinehurstred wrote:

the don69 wrote: Poor ol Danny,we might meet again(if he's not sacked)blown it again never should have been in the play-off's,just like us two years ago!!!!!!!!

SPOT ON Don.. spoke to a utd last week and Wilson done exactly the same as he did with use... The last 10 games changed everything

and they all called me a poxford supporter when i said he should have been sacked just before we got to the playoffs. oh life just gets better. we should have walked the league after leeds away, and unt should have walked it this year untill the motionless wilson fuucks it up again. onwards and upwards

Hi Chaps,they'll be calling him Danny blows it now!lol how many times as he blown now?hope we get them first game of the season,home or away,wonder if he will still be there come next season???????

Davidsyrett wrote:
Why do we always shoot ourselves in the foot? After a great season we should be looking forward to new signings and the forthcoming season, but yet again we're surrounded in controversy.

When will boards realise that the club should be run for the fans and not for their own personal agenda.

JW has to stand by his decisions, but also be big enough to admit that sometimes you make a wrong call, he was never going to get the majority in favour of LM coming here. Why then put your job on the line??? I have no doubt that if JW leaves, PdC will follow. Sometimes I despair!!

I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't get discussed in Parliament soon.

Please JW get back to football matters and stop wasting time on this. LM cannot join STFC and he wont. it's just a matter of time when that decision is made.

Robinonfire wrote:
1st game of the L1 season
Sheff Utd Home ?.

London Red wrote:
If what Stratton said is right then LM should never play again - as if that was part of his remorse he should stick to that - integrity is major part of that!
.
However, that doesn't mean he can't be involved in football - a community role and youth coach could be an excellent position
.
He was a great keeper so can pass that on to he next generation - but also show them that one stupid mistake can wipe that out and his career ending at 24 is the ultimate example
.
I say he should never play again only as he said that - if he didn't I do not see why he couldn't play again (in theory bar the abuse etc) as why is football so different to any other profession?
.
Yes they earn a lot but so do surgeons (as my example above) or lawyers or accountants or politicians or pop stars - yet no one (bar M4 who answered my question) seems to care if it was another profession or some if it simply was not our club!
.
I'm not overly religious but agree with sideshow on Christian values - he would not be outcast from Church or that society for one mistake - why should he be from the rest of society?
.
I love the fact JW wants to make STFC a role model for other clubs in every way - including encouraging rehabilitation

CraigClark wrote:
My opinion hasn't changed, I don't want LM at STFC, whether its on day release, just for pre season or contracted.

Let some other club do his rehabilitating, its too much of a touchy subject for the sake of a player who will only ever keep the bench warm whilst Wes is with us and Smiffy was perfectly capable of that.

P*ssed Off wrote:
Whilst I respect that everbody has their own views on this matter, for what it is worth i have to say that the club can do without all of those that have their views that it is a bad thing either to have the player train with us or sign for us. Personally I would rather lose all of you people as 'supporters' ( no joke), than lose JW as chairman in whatever capacity and more so lose PDC (his views have not yet been heard but as we know he can be volatile and walk out (but of course I forgot that the majority of you lot who oppose anything, stll think that he is a facist and shouldn't be here, Paul Caddis is a wee, useless scotsman who shouldn't play for town. My god what a bunch of w*nkers you really are).
Give the club a chance to succeed because we will fold otherwise and this time it won't be down to the board, it will be down to all of you idiots that have already deserted and thereby caused the ship to sink.
Come on JW, don't go, keep PDC, sign who you want, and keep the STFC flag flying. More people support you that the 40-50 that have nothing but bile in their mouths!!!

P*ssed Off wrote:
Whilst I respect that everbody has their own views on this matter, for what it is worth i have to say that the club can do without all of those that have their views that it is a bad thing either to have the player train with us or sign for us. Personally I would rather lose all of you people as 'supporters' ( no joke), than lose JW as chairman in whatever capacity and more so lose PDC (his views have not yet been heard but as we know he can be volatile and walk out (but of course I forgot that the majority of you lot who oppose anything, stll think that he is a facist and shouldn't be here, Paul Caddis is a wee, useless scotsman who shouldn't play for town. My god what a bunch of w*nkers you really are).
Give the club a chance to succeed because we will fold otherwise and this time it won't be down to the board, it will be down to all of you idiots that have already deserted and thereby caused the ship to sink.
Come on JW, don't go, keep PDC, sign who you want, and keep the STFC flag flying. More people support you that the 40-50 that have nothing but bile in their mouths!!!

St Jude wrote:
This issue has been reported, both locally and nationally, with deliberate misrepresentations to help sensationalise the story. Many people have responded to the 'facts' as presented by the press despite Mr Wray's fine efforts to present the real story.

The key issue for me was that the club were asked if they would help in the rehabilitation of LM. To their great credit they did not take the easy way out but accepted what they saw as a responsibility. They did not look to recruit a new player and have not offered any contract to the player.

Having accepted the role they have honoured their responsibilities within that role. At every opportunity Jeremy Wray has made it clear that his sympathies are primarily with the family of the victims. The objective question seems to be that this terrible tragedy has happened, it can't be put right but can anything positive come from it? I can't see a route to anything positive through further condemnation or punishment of LM but only by giving him a chance to help others learn from the dreadful mistake he made - I think the club has seen they can help make this possible.

I have great respect for Jeremy Wray as a chairman and a man and I think we should all feel proud that he is associated with our team.

the wizard wrote:

old town robin wrote:

Lazaat wrote:
There has been some very extreme comments on here over the past few days including the phrase "murdering b@$t@rd" which I have found very distasteful! A few posters who have said he has served his time according to the law of the land have been shot down and ridiculed and when I personally posted that I have no intention of not supporting the club and we should move on I was called a "narrow minded fool" and the poster doubted I had children of my own (I have 3 children)! I have been quite shocked and alarmed by the extremism of some Swindon fans! Jesus said "those of you without sin cast the first stone".....

Lazaat, exactly the reason i will only comment occassionally on here in future. The lack of reasoning of some, (not just on this subject) is unbelievable, they think they know it all and they're opinion is the only one that count and result in abusing other posters. With regards to McCormick, too many seem to think they are Judge, Jury and executioner and as you said have NEVER made a mistake in their lives. All I can say is all for the grace of God, go I.

OTR,

Good to see you back on here and you have been missed. Please continue to bring your views, they are not always the exactly the same as mine but they are always well reasoned and generally well balanced.

London Red wrote:
I'm behind you Jeremy
.
Also hopefully now it is clear he is not signing on as a professional (yet anyway) that a more reasoned debate can occur
.
People need to talk about rehabilitation as a whole - should it exist and should companies (STFC included) help in that process?
.
Example a top surgeon who earns hundreds of thousamds of pounds amd saves 100s if not 1000s of lives one night stupidly drives after a event and kills someone under the influence of alcohol
.
After serving his time deemed appropriate by the legal system (different issue) he has the opportunity to rejoin the medical profession again
.
Should he be allowed? Even if it means him earning hundreds of thousands of pounds doing it - but can continue to save lives through that role?

redjet wrote:
Well Mr Wray that certainly puts the cat amongst the pigeons. Whilst I think, and I am 100% sure everyone will agree, you are a great chairman but to put the fans of this club in an impossible situation based on your personal conviction, is in my opinion wrong. What you are saying is if we don't agree with you and relieve ourselves of our personal convictions you will put the clubs future in jeopardy, as I believe if you step down it will. You talked previously about having to make tough decision and not just walking away, so how does this fit with that train of thought. Whilst I dissagree with the prospect of LM appearing as a Swindon player that’s my opinion of which I am entitled and yours are yours to which you are entitled. If you feel your position is untenable because people have different opinions so be it but I certainly had you down as a better man than that. If you feel the need to throw away such a wonderful thing you and the rest of the staff at the club have done these past 15 months, so be it, it’s down to you how you want to be remembered by this club, one of the great Chairman or the Chairman that never was. Personally I hope you can put your personal opinions to one side for the sake of the club and get on with the wonderful job you have done so far but please don’t hold me or any other fans of this club to ransom. I'm sure you are aware of the old saying “No one is bigger than the club"

old town robin wrote:

redjet wrote:
Well Mr Wray that certainly puts the cat amongst the pigeons. Whilst I think, and I am 100% sure everyone will agree, you are a great chairman but to put the fans of this club in an impossible situation based on your personal conviction, is in my opinion wrong. What you are saying is if we don't agree with you and relieve ourselves of our personal convictions you will put the clubs future in jeopardy, as I believe if you step down it will. You talked previously about having to make tough decision and not just walking away, so how does this fit with that train of thought. Whilst I dissagree with the prospect of LM appearing as a Swindon player that’s my opinion of which I am entitled and yours are yours to which you are entitled. If you feel your position is untenable because people have different opinions so be it but I certainly had you down as a better man than that. If you feel the need to throw away such a wonderful thing you and the rest of the staff at the club have done these past 15 months, so be it, it’s down to you how you want to be remembered by this club, one of the great Chairman or the Chairman that never was. Personally I hope you can put your personal opinions to one side for the sake of the club and get on with the wonderful job you have done so far but please don’t hold me or any other fans of this club to ransom. I'm sure you are aware of the old saying “No one is bigger than the club"

no comment

Farteaboy wrote:

LionelHutz wrote:
Well said Jeremy. I really do think this whole topic has brought out the very worst of some of our ill-educated fanbase. Sure it is an emotive issue but, like you, I'm sure the more switched on of us can see the bigger picture.

Once someone has served the sentence handed to them by the courts of law, they should be able to resume their career.

That his sentence was a short one is not our concern. If people feel strongly about that they should be writing to their MP, not spouting drivel on internet forums.

I fully support your stance Jeremy and hope you will be at our club for many years to come.

"Our ill educated fan base"....

You arrogant condescending prat.

Blazing Riff wrote:
You know something fellow fans, the reactions to this story would not have been half as bad and, probably put the club in a much better light, if it were not for the way the original report was presented to us on 23rd May. Who's to blame for this one can only guess but, an apology should be forthcoming. To remind you, the headline was 'Wray explains McCormick decision.' I've highlighted the salient points from the following paragraphs in capitals. Para. 1 of the article - 'Jeremy Wray has said the decision to 'OFFER A TRIAL' to Luke McCormick was not taken lightly.' para 3. - 'However, the 28 year old, who has been training with Town on day release since January will join up with PdC's Robins 'ON TRIAL' upon his full release in June and will spend the pre season trying to 'EARN A CONTRACT' at the County Ground. I'm sure we've all interpreted that as meaning a trial to earn a contract as a fully fledged member of the team which many fans and others around the country cannot accept and has caused this outrage against our beloved club. Excuse the pun but, the goalposts seemed to have shifted over the intervening days and it now appears that that story was not accurate. The implication now is that his rehabilitation with us is so that he hopefully do some good in an advisory capacity to other players under an F.A. umbrella. I think that in most cases, you will all find that far more acceptable and, I would hope the same might apply to the rival fans, the media and of course, to the family of the victims. As I've said on previous posts, I cannot imagine that Luke McCormick will ever get anything more than a hostile reception if he ever appears publicly on a football pitch again and that will not benefit anyone. Our club has undoubtedly been tarnished by this episode and it will require hard work to get it back on track. Let's hope Jeremy Wray stays but, I think an explanation should be forthcoming from him as to how the original story was reported if it was not accurate.

jam1 wrote:

thesixtyniner wrote:
Sorry, Jam1, you're now suggesting that by us disagreeing with Jeremy Wray over one solitary issue, that the corollary of that would be to lose both Jeremy Wray AND Paolo Di Canio. Seriously?! I think we need a little perspective here.

Come again mate?

mr-mm wrote:
my thoughts are with the family, feck stfc why on earth train this murderer ! maybe looking for a cheap goalie, that no other club will take on board, image all the away fans singing 2-0, 2-0 even before the game started !!!. why does a club or anyone want to feel sorry for murderer, he is a threat to stfc and the whole country, who says he wont drink or drive again ???. remember swindon we all have family, as far as im concerned keep him out harms way and away from swindon, pass the problem to elsewhere, stfc, its a disgrace, just as well train a load of pedos for the job, this club seems to be getting worse not better, or maybe we all need to nazi salute stfc

LionelHutz wrote:
Well said Jeremy. I really do think this whole topic has brought out the very worst of some of our ill-educated fanbase. Sure it is an emotive issue but, like you, I'm sure the more switched on of us can see the bigger picture.

Once someone has served the sentence handed to them by the courts of law, they should be able to resume their career.

That his sentence was a short one is not our concern. If people feel strongly about that they should be writing to their MP, not spouting drivel on internet forums.

I fully support your stance Jeremy and hope you will be at our club for many years to come.

swindonurock wrote:
I support the principles that Mr Wray espouses, and I have no problem with McCormick training with Swindon, as part of rehabilitation. The only thing I would have difficulty with is if STFC signed him, which I think would be a mistake.

Jeremy Wray is by far the best person for the chairmanship, and it would be an awful loss to lose him, so I really hope that doesn't happen.

swindonurock wrote:
I support the principles that Mr Wray espouses, and I have no problem with McCormick training with Swindon, as part of rehabilitation. The only thing I would have difficulty with is if STFC signed him, which I think would be a mistake.

Jeremy Wray is by far the best person for the chairmanship, and it would be an awful loss to lose him, so I really hope that doesn't happen.

35yrRED wrote:

swindonurock wrote:
I support the principles that Mr Wray espouses, and I have no problem with McCormick training with Swindon, as part of rehabilitation. The only thing I would have difficulty with is if STFC signed him, which I think would be a mistake.

Jeremy Wray is by far the best person for the chairmanship, and it would be an awful loss to lose him, so I really hope that doesn't happen.

And that is the view of most of the so called "ignorant and ill educated" The story clearly stated "LM will sign for Swindon"..that is what led to people getting upset...most of us that were angry quickly had a change of heart when the 'facts' started coming out. What is now being said makes complete sense and if some good can come out of it then brilliant. People reacted to what they were told...how could they not? Otherwise if something in the news come to light that you don't agree with you should you say nothing? just leave it? in the hope that somewhere down the line it might turn out to be a mistake? Of course not....
Many of those that were angry share your views swindonurock...great post.
Oh...for those getting duplicate posts...once you have pressed "Submit" if nothing happens just wait a few seconds and "Refresh" the site...it will pop you back to the story and your comment will have been added!!! Theres no need to hit refresh more than once!!!

stfclondon wrote:

Wilesy wrote:
Now the facts of the matter are much clearer, more reasoned views are possible and many of the posts on this thread have been thoughtfully written.

It seems that
A) the majority are fully supportive of Jeremy Wray
B) people are generally ok with LM being given a chance to put something back into the community, at STFC
C) the majority are against LM ever playing for STFC
D) it is an emotive subject which will divide opinion

Hopefully J Wray won't step down and can accept the situation for what it is, although I would hope that LM would walk away from the club rather than letting it get to that situation.

It would be interesting to hear the victims mother view on the subject, now that the LM role is clarified.

While the Peak family are uppermost in everyone's thoughts, as they have suffered unimaginable heartache, I would respectfully suggest that nothing McCormick does is ever going to be good enough for them.

stfclondon wrote:

Wilesy wrote:
Now the facts of the matter are much clearer, more reasoned views are possible and many of the posts on this thread have been thoughtfully written.

It seems that
A) the majority are fully supportive of Jeremy Wray
B) people are generally ok with LM being given a chance to put something back into the community, at STFC
C) the majority are against LM ever playing for STFC
D) it is an emotive subject which will divide opinion

Hopefully J Wray won't step down and can accept the situation for what it is, although I would hope that LM would walk away from the club rather than letting it get to that situation.

It would be interesting to hear the victims mother view on the subject, now that the LM role is clarified.

While the Peak family are uppermost in everyone's thoughts, as they have suffered unimaginable heartache, I would respectfully suggest that nothing McCormick does is ever going to be good enough for them.

stfclondon wrote:

Wilesy wrote:
Now the facts of the matter are much clearer, more reasoned views are possible and many of the posts on this thread have been thoughtfully written.

It seems that
A) the majority are fully supportive of Jeremy Wray
B) people are generally ok with LM being given a chance to put something back into the community, at STFC
C) the majority are against LM ever playing for STFC
D) it is an emotive subject which will divide opinion

Hopefully J Wray won't step down and can accept the situation for what it is, although I would hope that LM would walk away from the club rather than letting it get to that situation.

It would be interesting to hear the victims mother view on the subject, now that the LM role is clarified.

While the Peak family are uppermost in everyone's thoughts, as they have suffered unimaginable heartache, I would respectfully suggest that nothing McCormick does is ever going to be good enough for them.

Oi Den! wrote:
Good post LR. Re your first para, my impression is that McCormack thought it was unlikely he would get the chance to play again, not that he gave an undertaking not to play again. They are entirely different things. I think he is probably right anyway. I doubt very much that he'll get the opportunity to play professional football again.
.
I agree with you entirely about Jeremy Wray. He is taking Swindon Town forward in the best possible manner in every way.
.
I urge all Town fans who are talking about shredding their season tickets etc to reconsider. Have a listen on iPlayer to Wray's contribution to the programme on 5 Live last night. I listened just now and felt immense pride that he is our Chairman. There is no self-righteousness about the man, just a real strength to carry through what he believes in. I hope that even those who refuse to accept his reasoning will at least recognise that.
.
It will be a very sad day indeed if Wray eventually decides that he cannot continue to lead Swindon Town.

Chish and Fips wrote:
With the exception of a few Poxford trolls supporters seem to becoming more aware now that this situation was fuelled by the newspapers, whilst there are some concerns I do feel over reaction by some was unnecessary. JW deserves better from some of you and you should hang your heads in shame. Some of the comments were bordering on the ridiculous and were insulting his intelligence.

Redhouse Red wrote:

stfclondon wrote:

Wilesy wrote:
Now the facts of the matter are much clearer, more reasoned views are possible and many of the posts on this thread have been thoughtfully written.

It seems that
A) the majority are fully supportive of Jeremy Wray
B) people are generally ok with LM being given a chance to put something back into the community, at STFC
C) the majority are against LM ever playing for STFC
D) it is an emotive subject which will divide opinion

Hopefully J Wray won't step down and can accept the situation for what it is, although I would hope that LM would walk away from the club rather than letting it get to that situation.

It would be interesting to hear the victims mother view on the subject, now that the LM role is clarified.

While the Peak family are uppermost in everyone's thoughts, as they have suffered unimaginable heartache, I would respectfully suggest that nothing McCormick does is ever going to be good enough for them.

Whilst sharing in your respect to the family, I share in your sentiments.

There does appear to be reluctance on their behalf to allow any form of forgiveness

Again, each individual will have an opinion on whether they should need to.

All I'll say is whilst his actions were selfish and reckless. He never directly set out to kill those boys.

If it were my kids, I'm sure i would feel the same as them. However I'd try my best to not allow the anger to consume me or the wife. Life has to go on.....

35yrRED wrote:

LionelHutz wrote:
Well said Jeremy. I really do think this whole topic has brought out the very worst of some of our ill-educated fanbase. Sure it is an emotive issue but, like you, I'm sure the more switched on of us can see the bigger picture.

Once someone has served the sentence handed to them by the courts of law, they should be able to resume their career.

That his sentence was a short one is not our concern. If people feel strongly about that they should be writing to their MP, not spouting drivel on internet forums.

I fully support your stance Jeremy and hope you will be at our club for many years to come.

Lets not fire it all up again...that would be pointless...however just because people do not share your view does not make them ill-educated and not switched on. Who do you think you are? It's a VERY sensitive issue and just because peoples opinion does match your own, for starters the family concerned are much more switched on to this than you are, BUT like I said lets leave it and wait and see what happens down the line, that is probably the best way forward at the moment (Of course that's not your opinion so it must be wrong).
Personally I think your comments come acrosss as both ill educated and switched off. Also...just to give your education a little boost..people HAVE written to their MP's....This forum is about Swindon Town...this whole story concerns Swindon Town....so if you try and think about it, just a little bit, that might be why people have used this forum don't you think? And just maybe those who do not agree with your view are just has dedicated to STFC as you and in some cases more so.

Stratton Red wrote:

glasred wrote:
J Wray is not saying my way or bye way,he has said that if the MAJORITY of STFC fans cant support his decisions as interim chairman,his position becomes untenable. Fortunately,I believe that the majority of supporters will want the good work JW has done to continue (including keeping PDC as manager). This issue could destroy all that has been achieved this season,simply because JW would care to help rehabilitate LM. HOW SAD IS THAT

Not sure I agree glasred. If the vast majority of fans don't want LM at the club then all JW has to do is terminate the agreement. If he's not prepared to listen to the vast majority of fans (customers) and is going to stick to his guns/principles then he is, sadly, causing an alienation.
*
I intend to write to JW this weekend as there are lots of points that I feel need clarifying and hopefully a response will put my mind at rest.

red dragon wrote:
Wot a lot of Anchors STFC has as supporters. Would you really risk losing the best chairman we have had in 54 years? Seton Wills was only a status symbol to HIM. Get OVER it and move on

red white wrote:
We are Swindon.

We're top of the league.

the don69 wrote:

red white wrote:
We are Swindon.

We're top of the league.

Sorry to burst your bubble red white!we were top of the league!we're now in League one with no points!lol!!!!!!!

umpcah wrote:

the don69 wrote:

red white wrote:
We are Swindon.

We're top of the league.

Sorry to burst your bubble red white!we were top of the league!we're now in League one with no points!lol!!!!!!!

and sadly not such a happy and calm club as it should be.

the don69 wrote:

red white wrote:
We are Swindon.

We're top of the league.

Sorry to burst your bubble red white!we were top of the league!we're now in League one with no points!lol!!!!!!!

umpcah wrote:

the don69 wrote:

red white wrote:
We are Swindon.

We're top of the league.

Sorry to burst your bubble red white!we were top of the league!we're now in League one with no points!lol!!!!!!!

and sadly not such a happy and calm club as it should be.

Oi Den! wrote:

umpcah wrote:

the don69 wrote:

red white wrote:
We are Swindon.

We're top of the league.

Sorry to burst your bubble red white!we were top of the league!we're now in League one with no points!lol!!!!!!!

and sadly not such a happy and calm club as it should be.

You sure about that one umpcah? I get the impression that the club is happy, calm and at ease with itself. Isn't the turmoil all happening outside it?
.
I think the club has come out of the last few days looking stonger than ever. The Chairman has been solid, courageous and statesmanlike, no more so than in the face of the grossly unbalanced questioning on that 5 Live programme on Friday.
.
I know there will be those who disagree but I think all Town fans should feel able to walk a little taller now.

madterrier wrote:
Another lesson to come out of this at some point is how carefully you have to handle PR.

Even if you get your facts right, your story set up carefully and rehearsed to the last detail, it is still likely to be distorted in the media. Either because (a) the newspaper is incompetent (the Adver, quite often) and gets the wrong end of the stick or with lazy journalism, casually uses the wrong words without thinking of the implications, or (b) the newspaper cynically twists and distorts it to sensationalise the story and sell newspapers.

I know. I used to have my own PR agency. It's frustrating when your story gets distorted in the media, but you still have to do as much preparation as possible in advance - get your facts straight; anticipate the questions and negative stances; prepare and rehearse your arguments; line-up your spokesmen; and follow it up.

I'd like to think that the club did all this before jumping into the frying pan, but equally I wouldn't be at all surprised if it didn't.

Clearly you're not going to stop nationals like the Mail choosing their angle - they are professional mercenaries (I know, I had supper with the Features Editor on Friday, evening, although he doesn't get anywhere near Sport). But the Adver, with it's 'trial' and 'offer contract' wording has really stirred things up with Swindon fans.

This is something that should be clarified quickly and a statement issued. But as so often happens, much of the damage is already done.

ciclosporindorset wrote:
Isn't it PR agencies that make mountains out of molehills then make lots of money with the tabloids and suckers like the rest of us. or am I jaundiced? Well I suspect both!

Jimbos lunch wrote:
After a few days of this McCormick debate, and reading all the different views it has come down to a few points that I just can't get round, and I don't believe he should ever be allowed back into football.

Rather then showing some remorse and respect for the children and quietly slip away and start rebuilding his life, or at the very least even waiting until he has served half his sentence, the first thing McCormick does is get on the phone to his agent to find him a new club, this action speaks louder then any words and spin that the club have put on this situation.

The main guise and excuse used to justify his return to football is that McCormick is going to help others and give 'something back' but I don't accept that you don't have to be a professional footballer to tell others your story of how drink driving can affect people, just travel round the country and visit different clubs if you feel the need, and it seems a hollow message when he and Swindon football cub is using this situation to justify him being a high profile football player.

A lot of people seem to have forgot that you must be human being in a terrible situation like this and the needs of the victims and their families should always come before the needs of the person that put them there, and there is no way the mother and father of the children killed should have to endure living in hell every day of their life while in their eyes the person who caused it is a high profile football living it up, if Swindon sign him and win promotion next season, the family will have to see him in the papers enjoying the time of his life at the celebrations.

The excuse that everyone has drunk drive at one time or another is not a good enough argument for me, if you get behind the wheel and kill two children, you should lose your ticket and the privilege to be professional football player, this is the lesson and message that should be given to youth players. There has to be some standards in football and this should be one of them.

As a father I could not bring myself to buy a ticket in the knowledge that 1p of it might go towards to McCormick wages, because if I ever meet the boys family I would not be able to look them in the face.

Jimbos lunch wrote:
After a few days of this McCormick debate, and reading all the different views it has come down to a few points that I just can't get round, and I don't believe he should ever be allowed back into football.

Rather then showing some remorse and respect for the children and quietly slip away and start rebuilding his life, or at the very least even waiting until he has served half his sentence, the first thing McCormick does is get on the phone to his agent to find him a new club, this action speaks louder then any words and spin that the club have put on this situation.

The main guise and excuse used to justify his return to football is that McCormick is going to help others and give 'something back' but I don't accept that you don't have to be a professional footballer to tell others your story of how drink driving can affect people, just travel round the country and visit different clubs if you feel the need, and it seems a hollow message when he and Swindon football cub is using this situation to justify him being a high profile football player.

A lot of people seem to have forgot that you must be human being in a terrible situation like this and the needs of the victims and their families should always come before the needs of the person that put them there, and there is no way the mother and father of the children killed should have to endure living in hell every day of their life while in their eyes the person who caused it is a high profile football living it up, if Swindon sign him and win promotion next season, the family will have to see him in the papers enjoying the time of his life at the celebrations.

The excuse that everyone has drunk drive at one time or another is not a good enough argument for me, if you get behind the wheel and kill two children, you should lose your ticket and the privilege to be professional football player, this is the lesson and message that should be given to youth players. There has to be some standards in football and this should be one of them.

As a father I could not bring myself to buy a ticket in the knowledge that 1p of it might go towards to McCormick wages, because if I ever meet the boys family I would not be able to look them in the face.

umpcah wrote:

Jimbos lunch wrote:
After a few days of this McCormick debate, and reading all the different views it has come down to a few points that I just can't get round, and I don't believe he should ever be allowed back into football.

Rather then showing some remorse and respect for the children and quietly slip away and start rebuilding his life, or at the very least even waiting until he has served half his sentence, the first thing McCormick does is get on the phone to his agent to find him a new club, this action speaks louder then any words and spin that the club have put on this situation.

The main guise and excuse used to justify his return to football is that McCormick is going to help others and give 'something back' but I don't accept that you don't have to be a professional footballer to tell others your story of how drink driving can affect people, just travel round the country and visit different clubs if you feel the need, and it seems a hollow message when he and Swindon football cub is using this situation to justify him being a high profile football player.

A lot of people seem to have forgot that you must be human being in a terrible situation like this and the needs of the victims and their families should always come before the needs of the person that put them there, and there is no way the mother and father of the children killed should have to endure living in hell every day of their life while in their eyes the person who caused it is a high profile football living it up, if Swindon sign him and win promotion next season, the family will have to see him in the papers enjoying the time of his life at the celebrations.

The excuse that everyone has drunk drive at one time or another is not a good enough argument for me, if you get behind the wheel and kill two children, you should lose your ticket and the privilege to be professional football player, this is the lesson and message that should be given to youth players. There has to be some standards in football and this should be one of them.

As a father I could not bring myself to buy a ticket in the knowledge that 1p of it might go towards to McCormick wages, because if I ever meet the boys family I would not be able to look them in the face.

" If Swindon sign him " . We have been assured that this is not a possibility.

zznewyork wrote:
I wonder where pdc is in all this? what a season he has had and he came through with flying colours,i,m very proud of him and also JW,but i would,nt be suprised if both of them left,who could blame them. The angelic posters of st,who have never done any wrong,and are quick to jump on any controversy,seem like the old vigilanty,s from the past. I could never even come near to understang there loss of those beauitiful children,they say time heals but they will never heal in there lifetime. Its not up to us to forgive,only the family can do that,but there is some good that could come out of this,to go through life with so much hatred in your heart is no good for anyone. Maybe we should only sign players from the vatican or the salvation army,or maybe even the mormons.(not that we are going to sign him)

Farteaboy wrote:

LionelHutz wrote:
Well said Jeremy. I really do think this whole topic has brought out the very worst of some of our ill-educated fanbase. Sure it is an emotive issue but, like you, I'm sure the more switched on of us can see the bigger picture.

Once someone has served the sentence handed to them by the courts of law, they should be able to resume their career.

That his sentence was a short one is not our concern. If people feel strongly about that they should be writing to their MP, not spouting drivel on internet forums.

I fully support your stance Jeremy and hope you will be at our club for many years to come.

"Our ill educated fan base"....

You arrogant condescending prat.

Oi Den! wrote:
I find it puzzling that people are accusing Wray of dragging the club's name through the mud. I think he's doing exactly the opposite. Since all this blew up, a Friday night and a Saturday night have passed. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some good has already come of the Town's decision to try to assist in McCormick's rehabilitation. There has been a huge public focus in the last few days on the damage drinking and driving can cause to victims and perpetrators, and all associated with them. Maybe it has made some people think twice about getting behind the wheel of a car after a few beers this weekend?
.
In answer to Jimboslunch, I would say he's distorting people's words when he says McCormick's drink driving is beeing excused on the grounds that everybody does it. That is not the point being made at all.
.
I believe the point is that everyone who has ever driven a motor vehicle while over the alcohol limit bears a share of the blame when it produces tragic results like it has in the case of McCormick and the Peaks. I am ashamed to say that in my younger days I probably drank three or four pints and then drove home. How can I vilify and demonise McCormick when I have committed the same offence and just been lucky enough not to cause anyone harm? Am I a better person than McCormick? I don't think so.
.
It's very easy to focus on McCormack as a "murderer" etc because when he took the reckless decision to drink and drive all the circumstances came together to cause heartbreak for so many people.
.
But it is utterly hypocritical to treat McCormick in this way while conveniently ignoring the fact that there are serious and serial drink drivers everywhere in football and elsewhere in society.
.
What we need to be doing is ramming home the message of how stupid and dangerous it is to drink and drive. Maybe we need to make the penalties more severe? Perhaps jail should be an automatic consequence of drink driving so that there is a really powerful deterrent?
.
People will still say "but McCormick killed two boys". So he did, but he is no more a murderer than me or any of the worse drink drivers still making a mint out of football. He has almost completed his sentence in accordance with the laws of the land (whether we like them or not) and I believe it is right that he should now be helped to find his way back into society and to send out an anti drink-drive message through the only job he knows.
.
I also do not understand the notion that STFC are giving priority to the perpetrator over the victims. At every opportunity, the club has stated its sympathy and understanding for the Peak family. There is nothing the club can do to repair the awful damage done. The clock cannot be turned back. What they can do is try to make the future better than the past.
.
I support Jeremy Wray and the Town wholeheartedy in this matter. I also thank them wholeheartedly for forcing me to examine my conscience and to move from a hypocritical attitude towards McCormick to a position where I can be proud that my club is trying to do something very worthwhile.
.
Apologies for the very long post.

california andy wrote:
I haven't commented till now, but the self-righteousness of the crowd that seemingly won't be satisfied till this player is hanged from the nearest lamp-post is really shocking. The sentiments belong in the worst of the tabloids. The awfulness of what happened to the family is clear to all. That should not be a license for the sort of small-minded viciousness that some people on this forum have put on display. I'm reminded of the passage, "Let he who is without sin..." Mr Wray has taken a brave and principled stand. I am glad to see many people backing him. If some of you want to boycott the club as a result, I suggest you go ahead. Better off without you.

fatman wrote:
stfc2467
Your the idiot , his money his choice not yours

Lazaat wrote:
PS the word that is starred out is @$$es, nothing worse

Oi Den! wrote:
Good post LR. Re your first para, my impression is that McCormack thought it was unlikely he would get the chance to play again, not that he gave an undertaking not to play again. They are entirely different things. I think he is probably right anyway. I doubt very much that he'll get the opportunity to play professional football again. . I agree with you entirely about Jeremy Wray. He is taking Swindon Town forward in the best possible manner in every way. . I urge all Town fans who are talking about shredding their season tickets etc to reconsider. Have a listen on iPlayer to Wray's contribution to the programme on 5 Live last night. I listened just now and felt immense pride that he is our Chairman. There is no self-righteousness about the man, just a real strength to carry through what he believes in. I hope that even those who refuse to accept his reasoning will at least recognise that. . It will be a very sad day indeed if Wray eventually decides that he cannot continue to lead Swindon Town.

Stratton Red wrote:

Oi Den! wrote:
Good post LR. Re your first para, my impression is that McCormack thought it was unlikely he would get the chance to play again, not that he gave an undertaking not to play again. They are entirely different things. I think he is probably right anyway. I doubt very much that he'll get the opportunity to play professional football again. . I agree with you entirely about Jeremy Wray. He is taking Swindon Town forward in the best possible manner in every way. . I urge all Town fans who are talking about shredding their season tickets etc to reconsider. Have a listen on iPlayer to Wray's contribution to the programme on 5 Live last night. I listened just now and felt immense pride that he is our Chairman. There is no self-righteousness about the man, just a real strength to carry through what he believes in. I hope that even those who refuse to accept his reasoning will at least recognise that. . It will be a very sad day indeed if Wray eventually decides that he cannot continue to lead Swindon Town.

Hi den, was with a few friends yesterday, Arsenal, Leeds and Villa fans and some who don't follow football and all they wanted to know was my opinion on this etc etc. Everyone recognised the need to rehabilitiate but most felt they would not want him playing football at their club. Most agreed that it had a negative effect on our club.
*
What was mentioned was why the story had not broken earlier if he's been training since Jan. I had not really thought about this. Had this blown up in e.g. February this would have had a real negative effect on the club and could have (potentially) impacted our Championship. Thinking this through JW has taken a massive and unecessary risk in my opinion. His primary role MUST be to safeguard the interests of the club and shareholders not steer it into harms way regardless of his own personal convictions.

the wizard wrote:
Anybody hoping like me for some team and footballing news tomorrow ??? P L E A S E

the don69 wrote:

the wizard wrote:
Anybody hoping like me for some team and footballing news tomorrow ??? P L E A S E

Yeah Wiz,we might sign that ol Crooner from Yeovil,wonder if J-Wray had a nice relaxing week-end lol!!!!!!!

Oi Den! wrote:
Agree Wiz. I think we are at least 3 players short of a promotion challenging side. The next few weeks should be very interesting.

the don69 wrote:

P*ssed Off wrote:
Whilst I respect that everbody has their own views on this matter, for what it is worth i have to say that the club can do without all of those that have their views that it is a bad thing either to have the player train with us or sign for us. Personally I would rather lose all of you people as 'supporters' ( no joke), than lose JW as chairman in whatever capacity and more so lose PDC (his views have not yet been heard but as we know he can be volatile and walk out (but of course I forgot that the majority of you lot who oppose anything, stll think that he is a facist and shouldn't be here, Paul Caddis is a wee, useless scotsman who shouldn't play for town. My god what a bunch of w*nkers you really are).
Give the club a chance to succeed because we will fold otherwise and this time it won't be down to the board, it will be down to all of you idiots that have already deserted and thereby caused the ship to sink.
Come on JW, don't go, keep PDC, sign who you want, and keep the STFC flag flying. More people support you that the 40-50 that have nothing but bile in their mouths!!!

What a load of Rubbish!bile is the right word for your post and p1ssed off is the the right name for you!!!!!!!

glasred wrote:
A judge passed sentance on LM,and he is serving his sentance,and will have to live with what he did until he dies. J Wray is a compassionate man who is trying to help LM move on. As supporters,we do not have to forgive anyone,but life moves forward,and this bitter row is tainting...Once again...our beloved STFC. So lets not dwell on the situation regarding LM,or the late filing of accounts..due to shares changing hands...Lets get on the positive behind PDC and prepare for next season,because if some people dont climb down off there high horse,we may loose J Wray and PDC before next season starts. Is all this bitterness worth that?

madterrier wrote:
Steve, mate - why us? Because we were asked, and because JW is a decent guy.

I wished we hadn't been asked, but I also wish we had handled the matter better - both in the media and in communications with fans. Need to get the next moves and public statements right and a line drawn under it so that the ship can sail in the right direction again. There's a lot more important stuff to sort out.

Steve. Brentford wrote:
My first post on this matter was why us. Days later with several posters having to make multiple posts to get there point across and others trying to ridicule any other who`s opinion is different to there own.Now i have read most of the posts and i have taken into consideration aspects of this case that i may well of neglected to without reading others opinions, however after all that as per my first post on this subject WHY US.

We are PANTS wrote:

Steve. Brentford wrote:
My first post on this matter was why us. Days later with several posters having to make multiple posts to get there point across and others trying to ridicule any other who`s opinion is different to there own.Now i have read most of the posts and i have taken into consideration aspects of this case that i may well of neglected to without reading others opinions, however after all that as per my first post on this subject WHY US.

Hey C##K Head!! Go support Brenford or something!! I am a Swindon fan that has missed about 20 home games in 35 years, i have been to over 75 different grounds with Swindon Town.. I have lived in Exmouth for the last three year's and still have a Season ticket.. I am a REAL fan and i say what i want!! K##B!!

mr-mm wrote:
as a small family myself going to most of stfc games with my 2 kids, im now having second thoughts of going again especially if we have a child killer play in our team.
i work long hours and my hard earned cash is not going to pay "some scums wages", thats my view as simple as that, if stfc wish to give scum like that a chance in life, then count me out for sure and cancel my season ticket, better games to watch, we have approx 4-6 grounds in a 60 mile radius to watch, "take ya pick" "not to hard to find a goalie that hasnt murdered 2 kids, ruined anothers life, and totally messed up a decent family unit, !!!,
any semi decent clubs would of turned this scum away long before this got out of hand, no club will take him, its just to much hassle and no-one wants to give give their club a bad name, or get a bad name, simply because some soft **** felt sorry for him in the first place.
if wray as good as he is, defends this basterd, then i think wray should step down and let some-one with some balls step up to the mark.
hope you all spend your hard earned money wisely thats all im saying

Steve. Brentford wrote:

mr-mm wrote:
as a small family myself going to most of stfc games with my 2 kids, im now having second thoughts of going again especially if we have a child killer play in our team.
i work long hours and my hard earned cash is not going to pay "some scums wages", thats my view as simple as that, if stfc wish to give scum like that a chance in life, then count me out for sure and cancel my season ticket, better games to watch, we have approx 4-6 grounds in a 60 mile radius to watch, "take ya pick" "not to hard to find a goalie that hasnt murdered 2 kids, ruined anothers life, and totally messed up a decent family unit, !!!,
any semi decent clubs would of turned this scum away long before this got out of hand, no club will take him, its just to much hassle and no-one wants to give give their club a bad name, or get a bad name, simply because some soft **** felt sorry for him in the first place.
if wray as good as he is, defends this basterd, then i think wray should step down and let some-one with some balls step up to the mark.
hope you all spend your hard earned money wisely thats all im saying

Behave yourself, i don't think you are a Swindon fan and if you are you should be ashamed of yourself.For the record and for the last time, he is not being signed but Swindon have given him the chance to train with them once a week as part of his rehabilitation.I understand this is difficult for you to understand,it must be, as its been stated several times or are you a troll.

mr-mm wrote:

Steve. Brentford wrote:

mr-mm wrote:
as a small family myself going to most of stfc games with my 2 kids, im now having second thoughts of going again especially if we have a child killer play in our team.
i work long hours and my hard earned cash is not going to pay "some scums wages", thats my view as simple as that, if stfc wish to give scum like that a chance in life, then count me out for sure and cancel my season ticket, better games to watch, we have approx 4-6 grounds in a 60 mile radius to watch, "take ya pick" "not to hard to find a goalie that hasnt murdered 2 kids, ruined anothers life, and totally messed up a decent family unit, !!!,
any semi decent clubs would of turned this scum away long before this got out of hand, no club will take him, its just to much hassle and no-one wants to give give their club a bad name, or get a bad name, simply because some soft **** felt sorry for him in the first place.
if wray as good as he is, defends this basterd, then i think wray should step down and let some-one with some balls step up to the mark.
hope you all spend your hard earned money wisely thats all im saying

Behave yourself, i don't think you are a Swindon fan and if you are you should be ashamed of yourself.For the record and for the last time, he is not being signed but Swindon have given him the chance to train with them once a week as part of his rehabilitation.I understand this is difficult for you to understand,it must be, as its been stated several times or are you a troll.

"me" no im not ashamed, why should i , i havent murdered 2 children !!!
if your happy for swindon town football club, to allow scrum to train with them, your money you earn is paying for his training, or day realease, even down to feeding/drinking while out for the day,give him nothing, not even a chance to a decent life. !!!.

mr_flibble wrote:
35yrRed

What exactly is a family club?

Is it a club where hundreds of people were upset by the conduct of our fans at Wembley this year? Where one poster said he bought tickets in the family area only to hear one parent f and blind in front of his own 8 year old?

Is it a club that didn't sack Nicholas or Pook for being convicted drink drivers?

Is it a club that celebrated and 'lets do it for Jimmy' who killed himself whilst drunk? Did you observe and shed a tear for his minutes silence against Notts County?

Do you 35yrRED sit in the Arkles around Row N seat 121? Were you sat there for the wiltshire air ambulance charity game? Do you have a grey mouschtache? If not, or whoever that person is, I heard 10 f***s and f****gs and 1 c*** even before kick off.

Some 'family club'.

As I've said, it looks like people are finally coming around to the idea and basing opinion on fact and that we are the most tolerant and compasionate country in the world.

I wish LM the very best, and if he earns a contract then good luck to him.

STFCOntario wrote:

mr-mm wrote:

Steve. Brentford wrote:

mr-mm wrote:
as a small family myself going to most of stfc games with my 2 kids, im now having second thoughts of going again especially if we have a child killer play in our team.
i work long hours and my hard earned cash is not going to pay "some scums wages", thats my view as simple as that, if stfc wish to give scum like that a chance in life, then count me out for sure and cancel my season ticket, better games to watch, we have approx 4-6 grounds in a 60 mile radius to watch, "take ya pick" "not to hard to find a goalie that hasnt murdered 2 kids, ruined anothers life, and totally messed up a decent family unit, !!!,
any semi decent clubs would of turned this scum away long before this got out of hand, no club will take him, its just to much hassle and no-one wants to give give their club a bad name, or get a bad name, simply because some soft **** felt sorry for him in the first place.
if wray as good as he is, defends this basterd, then i think wray should step down and let some-one with some balls step up to the mark.
hope you all spend your hard earned money wisely thats all im saying

Behave yourself, i don't think you are a Swindon fan and if you are you should be ashamed of yourself.For the record and for the last time, he is not being signed but Swindon have given him the chance to train with them once a week as part of his rehabilitation.I understand this is difficult for you to understand,it must be, as its been stated several times or are you a troll.

"me" no im not ashamed, why should i , i havent murdered 2 children !!!
if your happy for swindon town football club, to allow scrum to train with them, your money you earn is paying for his training, or day realease, even down to feeding/drinking while out for the day,give him nothing, not even a chance to a decent life. !!!.

So oyu have never got in a car after drinking any small amount or large amount for that matter.. ??

AND DRIVEN.... your own children... !!!!

What makes you immune from this.. just becasue you never had an incident.. you thnk your not a guilty of the same crime..

But you are.. simple as that.. and anyone else who has taken a drink and driven..

You dont have to be LM to be guilty.. you are just as guilty as he was.. least he taken responsability..

Have you or have you not drunk alcohol and driven.. if so... and the majority have... then you share his sentence... just becasue you so far have got away with it.. makes you just as guilty..