Swindon Town fans hit out at McCormick link (From Swindon Advertiser)

International Robin2 wrote:
I support the rehabilitation of the guy and despite his previous actions, feel sorry for him with the response so far. As much as I understand why people are angry at it, I also think it's rather narrow minded.

International Robin2 wrote:
I support the rehabilitation of the guy and despite his previous actions, feel sorry for him with the response so far. As much as I understand why people are angry at it, I also think it's rather narrow minded.

International Robin2 wrote:
I support the rehabilitation of the guy and despite his previous actions, feel sorry for him with the response so far. As much as I understand why people are angry at it, I also think it's rather narrow minded.

International Robin2 wrote:
I support the rehabilitation of the guy and despite his previous actions, feel sorry for him with the response so far. As much as I understand why people are angry at it, I also think it's rather narrow minded.

mightywoolst wrote:
i for one will never pay mony to watch this murdering b.....d wear a town shirt

Town Of The Future wrote:
No-one denies that one he serves his time, he has the right to a normal life! What most people are against is why should he head straight back into the glorious lifestyle of a footballer, the dream of millions of kids, when the two children he killed do not even have the chance to live their life! Give him a normal hardworking life back, not the privileged idolised life of a footballer. I will never be at the county ground for as long as he is employed! It will divide the team, divide the supporters, and make us the laughing stock of the football world!

Town Of The Future wrote:
No-one denies that one he serves his time, he has the right to a normal life! What most people are against is why should he head straight back into the glorious lifestyle of a footballer, the dream of millions of kids, when the two children he killed do not even have the chance to live their life! Give him a normal hardworking life back, not the privileged idolised life of a footballer. I will never be at the county ground for as long as he is employed! It will divide the team, divide the supporters, and make us the laughing stock of the football world!

Lazaat wrote:

International Robin2 wrote: I support the rehabilitation of the guy and despite his previous actions, feel sorry for him with the response so far. As much as I understand why people are angry at it, I also think it's rather narrow minded.

I understand where you are coming from Robin and most of us are sensible enough to know he is not a murderer, but if he signed for us our club would be brought into disrepute and our reputation would be tarnished.....not to mention other fans constant abuse which would most likely affect the whole team! We just don't need that and in my opinion it is a lose lose situation to sign him, I just can't see any positives from this at all. He should either play non league football or something less high profile. I also feel a bit sorry for him as his life is now ruined but I also feel very strongly that Swindon should not sign him!

Chish and Fips wrote:

Town Of The Future wrote:
No-one denies that one he serves his time, he has the right to a normal life! What most people are against is why should he head straight back into the glorious lifestyle of a footballer, the dream of millions of kids, when the two children he killed do not even have the chance to live their life! Give him a normal hardworking life back, not the privileged idolised life of a footballer. I will never be at the county ground for as long as he is employed! It will divide the team, divide the supporters, and make us the laughing stock of the football world!

Your decision mate ..

EastleazeRed wrote:

mightywoolst wrote: i for one will never pay mony to watch this murdering b.....d wear a town shirt

Another new poster , funny how they always come out of the woodwork when there's trouble brewing , oxford supporter no doubt !

Chish and Fips wrote:

Town Of The Future wrote:
No-one denies that one he serves his time, he has the right to a normal life! What most people are against is why should he head straight back into the glorious lifestyle of a footballer, the dream of millions of kids, when the two children he killed do not even have the chance to live their life! Give him a normal hardworking life back, not the privileged idolised life of a footballer. I will never be at the county ground for as long as he is employed! It will divide the team, divide the supporters, and make us the laughing stock of the football world!

Your decision mate ..

KojaktheWarg wrote:
I agree - so many new posters here - it must be trolling from our oxfordshire neighbours..

hg191a wrote:
great another chance for our armchair fans to refuse to pay to watch the town anymore just like when paulo was announced as manager ffs just roll on next season if it means promotion i would have harold shipman and fred west up front with bin laden and sadam on the wings we are going up

hg191a wrote:
great another chance for our armchair fans to refuse to pay to watch the town anymore just like when paulo was announced as manager ffs just roll on next season if it means promotion i would have harold shipman and fred west up front with bin laden and sadam on the wings we are going up

Town Of The Future wrote:
No-one denies that one he serves his time, he has the right to a normal life! What most people are against is why should he head straight back into the glorious lifestyle of a footballer, the dream of millions of kids, when the two children he killed do not even have the chance to live their life! Give him a normal hardworking life back, not the privileged idolised life of a footballer. I will never be at the county ground for as long as he is employed! It will divide the team, divide the supporters, and make us the laughing stock of the football world!

redjet wrote:

Town Of The Future wrote:
No-one denies that one he serves his time, he has the right to a normal life! What most people are against is why should he head straight back into the glorious lifestyle of a footballer, the dream of millions of kids, when the two children he killed do not even have the chance to live their life! Give him a normal hardworking life back, not the privileged idolised life of a footballer. I will never be at the county ground for as long as he is employed! It will divide the team, divide the supporters, and make us the laughing stock of the football world!

agreed

Lazaat wrote:

EastleazeRed wrote:

mightywoolst wrote: i for one will never pay mony to watch this murdering b.....d wear a town shirt

Another new poster , funny how they always come out of the woodwork when there's trouble brewing , oxford supporter no doubt !

I was thinking the same thing Eastleaze! No doubt a Poxford fan\Troll coming on here with ridiculous comments like "murdering b@$t@rd"....I think all sensible people accept this guy is not a murderer as he didn't do it intentionally! Having said that I can't see any good coming from him signing for us regardless of how good a goalkeeper he may be. Good morning Louis, don't forget us 2 meeting up at quite a few away matches next season?

Lazaat wrote:

EastleazeRed wrote:

mightywoolst wrote: i for one will never pay mony to watch this murdering b.....d wear a town shirt

Another new poster , funny how they always come out of the woodwork when there's trouble brewing , oxford supporter no doubt !

I was thinking the same thing Eastleaze! No doubt a Poxford fan\Troll coming on here with ridiculous comments like "murdering b@$t@rd"....I think all sensible people accept this guy is not a murderer as he didn't do it intentionally! Having said that I can't see any good coming from him signing for us regardless of how good a goalkeeper he may be. Good morning Louis, don't forget us 2 meeting up at quite a few away matches next season?

EastleazeRed wrote:

hg191a wrote:
great another chance for our armchair fans to refuse to pay to watch the town anymore just like when paulo was announced as manager ffs just roll on next season if it means promotion i would have harold shipman and fred west up front with bin laden and sadam on the wings we are going up

:-D That did make me laugh !

LeGod wrote:
Whilst i dont agree with this guy potentially coming to our club i will never turn my back on the club that i have supported for years and i dont understand fans who have stated they wont go to a game if we sign McCormick.
As i said yesterday i can understand the hatred of the parents of the two children as i could never forgive McCormick as he had a number of chances not to drive that night and people tried to stop him but he carried on and that makes it all the worse. However you cant turn the clock back on what happenned and i will always support the club but i do think we have got this decison drastically wrong as if he does get any game time i cant see may town fans supporting him on the pitch.
We also need to bear in mind he is only training with us and hasnt signed so its not all done and dusted yet and with the fans stating their unhappiness at this decsion to let him have a trial with us it may not happen yet.

Steve. Brentford wrote:

Lazaat wrote:

EastleazeRed wrote:

mightywoolst wrote: i for one will never pay mony to watch this murdering b.....d wear a town shirt

Another new poster , funny how they always come out of the woodwork when there's trouble brewing , oxford supporter no doubt !

I was thinking the same thing Eastleaze! No doubt a Poxford fan\Troll coming on here with ridiculous comments like "murdering b@$t@rd"....I think all sensible people accept this guy is not a murderer as he didn't do it intentionally! Having said that I can't see any good coming from him signing for us regardless of how good a goalkeeper he may be. Good morning Louis, don't forget us 2 meeting up at quite a few away matches next season?

He`s not a new poster chaps, just one that comes out when the brown stuff is flying about.
Laz i agree with your earlier post (the one that sadgit commented on) No good can come of it for Swindon Town so let some other club rehabilitate ex- offenders, we have a very good and passionate manager who brings his own media attention,i just cant see why our board would want to jeopardize the momentum and togetherness that is building nicely at present.

Stroud STFC wrote:
Mr Wray: I'm a life long Town fan - I don't want to watch this man at my/our club. Another chance in life? Yes. But sorry,not here with us.

dreamofacleansheet2 wrote:
Anyone written to their MP yet complaining about sentences for drink drivers who cause death?

.......

Oh thought not......

Perhaps you were all in the Town wearing your blue Chelsea's shirts for Drogba yesterday. As you're all deserting the club perhaps you could all go and join him in Shanghai?

stevehalloz wrote:
He did a very stupid, illegal thing. The consequences were catastrophic for the people in the other car and also for himself.

His life will never be the same again. Granted, he isn't dead or paralysed, but who among you would want to swap places with him? And who among you hasn't done something stupid and illegal that could have had equally catastrophic consequences? I know I have.

Loss of his career, four years in jail (and I would go mad spending a week in jail, never mind 4 years), massive remorse, huge publicity, certainty of abuse wherever he goes - not exactly a picnic.

Even murderers and rapists have a chance for rehabilitation once they have served their time, and he deserves a chance too.

So does he deserve a chance? Yes.

Should it be in football? To be honest, if I were him I'd probably avoid it like the plague knowing the stick I'd get every game, so if nothing else he has guts. But who are we to say "yes you can be rehabilitated and you deserve to get a job - but not in your profession." So yes, he should be allowed to be rehabilitated in football.

Should it be with Swindon? Well, if we truly believe he deserves a chance why not. Because we can't cope with the publicity? Because we don't want to be slagged off by other teams? That's just "not me-ism."

If he has shown remorse, which he has, if his life has been ruined, which it has, if he deserves a chance to make amends, which he does, if he should be allowed to follow his profession, which he should, if we have the courage of our beliefs we should give him that chance.

A brave decision by Mr Wray and one that shows a great deal of compassion and moral courage. I can live with that.

stevehalloz wrote:
Quick question. How many people here have driven their car after drinking 4 pints (enough to get you twice over the limit)?

I'll put my hand up and say I have many times when I was younger. I'm not proud of it but it's true - so it could have been me. Or if you have, even once, it could have been you.

How many people here have driven while on a mobile phone - proven to be at least as dangerous as driving twice over the limit? I have - and if you have, this could have been you.

If you've ever done something illegal or stupid that could have resulted in a catastrophe like this, then have some compassion. And understand the difference between murder and a stupid, tragic, criminal accident. The law does.

I suggest everyone in the "murdering **** lock him up and throw away the key never watch Swindon again camp" adds a quck paragraph saying it could never possibly have happened to them because they have never taken a risk or made a bad mistake.

I look forward to hearing from both of you.

smirg kcab wrote:
I here he has got to sit his driving test again, Jermaine pennant will be his instructor. Onwards and upwards Jwray we trust

smirg kcab wrote:
He wont sign so let's move on.
It will be another story that gets the town fans behind jwray for making an absolute correct call.
Jwray we trust
Onwards and upwards

Highworth red wrote:

stevehalloz wrote:
He did a very stupid, illegal thing. The consequences were catastrophic for the people in the other car and also for himself.

His life will never be the same again. Granted, he isn't dead or paralysed, but who among you would want to swap places with him? And who among you hasn't done something stupid and illegal that could have had equally catastrophic consequences? I know I have.

Loss of his career, four years in jail (and I would go mad spending a week in jail, never mind 4 years), massive remorse, huge publicity, certainty of abuse wherever he goes - not exactly a picnic.

Even murderers and rapists have a chance for rehabilitation once they have served their time, and he deserves a chance too.

So does he deserve a chance? Yes.

Should it be in football? To be honest, if I were him I'd probably avoid it like the plague knowing the stick I'd get every game, so if nothing else he has guts. But who are we to say "yes you can be rehabilitated and you deserve to get a job - but not in your profession." So yes, he should be allowed to be rehabilitated in football.

Should it be with Swindon? Well, if we truly believe he deserves a chance why not. Because we can't cope with the publicity? Because we don't want to be slagged off by other teams? That's just "not me-ism."

If he has shown remorse, which he has, if his life has been ruined, which it has, if he deserves a chance to make amends, which he does, if he should be allowed to follow his profession, which he should, if we have the courage of our beliefs we should give him that chance.

A brave decision by Mr Wray and one that shows a great deal of compassion and moral courage. I can live with that.

Moral courage from Wray, exactly what planet are you on at present, and compassion to who, the wife of the two dead children and paralyzed father?

International Robin2 wrote:
I support the rehabilitation of the guy and despite his previous actions, feel sorry for him with the response so far. As much as I understand why people are angry at it, I also think it's rather narrow minded.

The-Swindon-Man wrote:
Until anyone is affected by a drink driver, I don't think anyone can fully understand what affects it has on that person or family. Sorry, but Luke is NOT welcome at this club. Wray needs to make a decision. It's Luke or me. Make up your mind Wray.

stevehalloz wrote:
Quick question. How many people here have driven their car after drinking 4 pints (enough to get you twice over the limit)?

I'll put my hand up and say I have many times when I was younger. I'm not proud of it but it's true - so it could have been me. Or if you have, even once, it could have been you.

How many people here have driven while on a mobile phone - proven to be at least as dangerous as driving twice over the limit? I have - and if you have, this could have been you.

If you've ever done something illegal or stupid that could have resulted in a catastrophe like this, then have some compassion. And understand the difference between murder and a stupid, tragic, criminal accident. The law does.

I suggest everyone in the "murdering **** lock him up and throw away the key never watch Swindon again camp" adds a quck paragraph saying it could never possibly have happened to them because they have never taken a risk or made a bad mistake.

I look forward to hearing from both of you.

Highworth red wrote:

stevehalloz wrote:
Quick question. How many people here have driven their car after drinking 4 pints (enough to get you twice over the limit)?

I'll put my hand up and say I have many times when I was younger. I'm not proud of it but it's true - so it could have been me. Or if you have, even once, it could have been you.

How many people here have driven while on a mobile phone - proven to be at least as dangerous as driving twice over the limit? I have - and if you have, this could have been you.

If you've ever done something illegal or stupid that could have resulted in a catastrophe like this, then have some compassion. And understand the difference between murder and a stupid, tragic, criminal accident. The law does.

I suggest everyone in the "murdering **** lock him up and throw away the key never watch Swindon again camp" adds a quck paragraph saying it could never possibly have happened to them because they have never taken a risk or made a bad mistake.

I look forward to hearing from both of you.

This is not just some silly little mistake, he made the conscience decision to drink and drive, something that I have NEVER done, or used a phone while driving. I'm absolutely shocked at some fans on here who think 'not my family, doesn't really matter then, but hey we can get a decent keeper out of this'. This is an error of judgment by the club of the highest order and not sure I can continue supporting a club that thinks this is all okay. Very downhearted at the moment.

Stratton Red wrote:
Been thinking about this. I think a very important aspect missing is the reaction of the parents. If it sickens them then we should not have anything to do with him on. If they've forgiven him then who are we to pass judgement? ADVER - Good chance to do some real journalism and find out what the parents think about him returning to a high profile, well paid profession...

Davidsyrett wrote:
The boys’ angry father Phil, 39, of Partington, Greater Manchester, said: “We’ve lost two sons as a result of Luke McCormick drinking and driving – yet not even four years on he’s being released from jail and will be back playing the game he loves. “Our lads will never play football again. It is so wrong on so many levels. “When he’s released he’ll be going on a pre-season tour to Italy – very nice, not a thought for the victims. “We are disgusted to find out only now that while he’s been in prison he’s been training with the team. Fathers view and mind too, enough said

stevehalloz wrote:

Highworth red wrote:

stevehalloz wrote:
He did a very stupid, illegal thing. The consequences were catastrophic for the people in the other car and also for himself.

His life will never be the same again. Granted, he isn't dead or paralysed, but who among you would want to swap places with him? And who among you hasn't done something stupid and illegal that could have had equally catastrophic consequences? I know I have.

Loss of his career, four years in jail (and I would go mad spending a week in jail, never mind 4 years), massive remorse, huge publicity, certainty of abuse wherever he goes - not exactly a picnic.

Even murderers and rapists have a chance for rehabilitation once they have served their time, and he deserves a chance too.

So does he deserve a chance? Yes.

Should it be in football? To be honest, if I were him I'd probably avoid it like the plague knowing the stick I'd get every game, so if nothing else he has guts. But who are we to say "yes you can be rehabilitated and you deserve to get a job - but not in your profession." So yes, he should be allowed to be rehabilitated in football.

Should it be with Swindon? Well, if we truly believe he deserves a chance why not. Because we can't cope with the publicity? Because we don't want to be slagged off by other teams? That's just "not me-ism."

If he has shown remorse, which he has, if his life has been ruined, which it has, if he deserves a chance to make amends, which he does, if he should be allowed to follow his profession, which he should, if we have the courage of our beliefs we should give him that chance.

A brave decision by Mr Wray and one that shows a great deal of compassion and moral courage. I can live with that.

Moral courage from Wray, exactly what planet are you on at present, and compassion to who, the wife of the two dead children and paralyzed father?

I'm in Australia, I guess that's planet. I have immense compassion for the kids and the paralysed day, and the wife.

But hounding McCormick for the rest of his life won't help them. Everyone is a loser here. I understand your outrage but the ultimate question is when do we forgive, or at least when do we give people a second chance.

Our society says people pay the price - in this case jail, loss of career and public disgrace - and then get a second chance.

Tell me, Highworth Red, COULD it have been you? Have you ever driven over the limit?

Maybe I feel some compassion for him because I've done some spectacularly stupid (and illegal) things and been lucky. It truly could have been me.

EastleazeRed wrote:

mightywoolst wrote:
i for one will never pay mony to watch this murdering b.....d wear a town shirt

Another new poster , funny how they always come out of the woodwork when there's trouble brewing , oxford supporter no doubt !

EastleazeRed wrote:

mightywoolst wrote: i for one will never pay mony to watch this murdering b.....d wear a town shirt

Another new poster , funny how they always come out of the woodwork when there's trouble brewing , oxford supporter no doubt !

Stratton Red wrote:

Davidsyrett wrote:
The boys’ angry father Phil, 39, of Partington, Greater Manchester, said: “We’ve lost two sons as a result of Luke McCormick drinking and driving – yet not even four years on he’s being released from jail and will be back playing the game he loves. “Our lads will never play football again. It is so wrong on so many levels. “When he’s released he’ll be going on a pre-season tour to Italy – very nice, not a thought for the victims. “We are disgusted to find out only now that while he’s been in prison he’s been training with the team. Fathers view and mind too, enough said

No debate then... JW take note and stop the madness and shame you are bringing to our club!

louiscassius wrote:
I swore yesterday, i would never comment on this, having 3 girls myself, but i feel i have too.

To be honest, i dont know how i feel.......angry and upset....absolutely.

.....but then also trying to be more than my feelings and forgive....but then i think if they were my kids, could i forgive.....to be honest i dont know.

There are victims families i've seen on TV that move forward by forgiving the Muderer of their Sons or Daughters, and i think Oh my god, how could you, but the human being is a funny thing sometimes.

Right, after discussing the matter, i think that this young man has made the worse decision that could ever me made, also in that decision he has ended 2 young lives and devasted 2 complete familes....

The very least, and i mean the very least that he should have happened is NEVER EVER play Pro football again.

And, when he thinks what could have been, he'll see those 2 youngs boys he killed and hopefully live with their faces in his mind for the rest of his life....now that is a minimum i think that should happen.....

The fact he is allowed out of jail, to have children, work, run, play with his future kids, should be enough for him to count himself a very very lucky man indeed........

But hey, thats just my opinion..........

Louis :-(((((

JohnNeal4me wrote:
As a father whose son was murdered I find all the very negative responses to this very altruistic move by the Town management to be very demeaning of me and all the other Town supporters who are rather more enlightened. I find it very dis appointing that there seems to be such a large swathe of the Town support that is still living in the dark ages. lets give it rest please.
On a lighter note, I would be grateful if the Adver could be more careful with its headlines. When I first saw yesterday's headline- Town explain about McCormack- I nearly had a heart attack. I thought we had sold Alan McC - now there would be something to get upset about!!

olliejames wrote:
Comments welcome on our STFC fans Facebook page (over 6000 members) www.facebook.com/the

swindontown

Can I please remind people he is not a murderer

Stilloyal wrote:
He is not a murderer, he is a drunk driver that had a terrible accident after believing he had sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep.
This was an awful misjudgement and terrible mistake on his part and he deserved to be punished.
Back in the 80's when I managed a local Sunday team I witnessed a hit and run by a drunken driver outside Headlands school.
I had just finished training and I gave the police a description of the vehicle which was an Alegro. The driver dumped it in the Rodbourne Arms car park. However he was caught and received nine months for killing this poor woman, he was out after four.
I thought his sentence was far too lenient same as this player. This builder was free to continue his trade after release. The question is if the builder was able to carry out his trade after release should McCormick ? or are we all guilty of double standards ?
I'm not defending the footballer just trying to put a reasoned point of view.
It's upsetting to witness something like this and I'll have that memory forever just as the guy who witnessed McCormick's misdemeanor. However life does go on and it's too short to hate for all that time, I wouldn't expect this poor mother to forgive nor forget , but accept that without her tragic sons life can still go on for everyone.
Do I want to see McCormick in a Town shirt ? NO but for several reasons.

35yrRED wrote:
Amazing how many "first time posters" there are on here!!! I suggest you concern yourselves with your own Club(s). Right..personally I don't want this guy at the club...would I stop going if he does sign? NO. Will I chant nonsense and cause him grief? NO. I love following Swindon and that will not change, however...this guy is able to get on with his life and put things behind him...the family of the victims cannot. I think back to that terrible accident on Akers Way many years ago (I'm sure some of you will remember it) when 5 Children's lives were snuffed out because of a complete moron who decided to race down the road...he is a murderer...and our inept and useless law allows him to get sentenced to just 5 years!!! a year for every life he took...this man is now free and allowed to carry on...the families were tore apart and will never fully recover. It is the same with LM...he knowingly got behind the wheel of a car after drinking...he was not forced to do this...he took his car knowing he was going to have a drink...he made a decision...A car in the wrong hands is a lethal weapon..if our laws were any good these people would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, Manslaughter or in many cases Murder. I won't get started on the pathetic laws over all in this country!!! But the fact remains that if this man is allowed to continue with a football career he will earn a living most of us could not ever achieve...he will enjoy himself...yes he may have to live with what he done for the rest of his life...but don't tell me it will come anywhere near comparing what the family of the victims will live through...they are innocent and have a had a life sentence forced on them...in my opinion...drink drivers and those who kill through dangerous driving should also have a life sentence metted out to them.

the don69 wrote:
£5,000 a week!for Andy Williams!that was more than the ol crooner got in Las Vegas back in the Seventies!he better have a lot of hits(in the back of the net)or he won't be getting any applause!LOL!!!!!

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote: He is not a murderer, he is a drunk driver that had a terrible accident after believing he had sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep. This was an awful misjudgement and terrible mistake on his part and he deserved to be punished. Back in the 80's when I managed a local Sunday team I witnessed a hit and run by a drunken driver outside Headlands school. I had just finished training and I gave the police a description of the vehicle which was an Alegro. The driver dumped it in the Rodbourne Arms car park. However he was caught and received nine months for killing this poor woman, he was out after four. I thought his sentence was far too lenient same as this player. This builder was free to continue his trade after release. The question is if the builder was able to carry out his trade after release should McCormick ? or are we all guilty of double standards ? I'm not defending the footballer just trying to put a reasoned point of view. It's upsetting to witness something like this and I'll have that memory forever just as the guy who witnessed McCormick's misdemeanor. However life does go on and it's too short to hate for all that time, I wouldn't expect this poor mother to forgive nor forget , but accept that without her tragic sons life can still go on for everyone. Do I want to see McCormick in a Town shirt ? NO but for several reasons.

So...if a lout has a few bevvies...grabs a bit of sleep goes out...gets into a row and stabs someone then it's a terrible mistake because he's under the influence!!! Knife...Gun....Car.. .all lethal weapons in the wrong hands!!! He KNEW he had been drinking....he KNOWINGLY drove the car...was he forced to? NO..the result...a tragedy for the poor INNOCENT family. The fact remains....that the sentences dished out to these KILLERS are totaly inappropriate, yes...everyone deserves a second chance...but footballers lead priveleged lives in the the PUBLIC spotlight...yet another kick in the teeth for the poor family...if it was a job where he wouldn't be named in newspapers...if he could keep his head down and the family could never hear his name again then that's not quite has bad....what if he plays incredibly well?..does that mean that the innocent family have to now stop reading newspapers? What if he pulls an incredible performance out of the bag in a cup game against Premier opposition? I can only imagine if what I would feel like if a man who had killed my Children had his happy smiling face plastered all over the papers enjoying his life and new roll of 'HERO'. Yes....the modern world...let's put the feelings and pain of the victims at the bottom of the list...it's disgusting!!! A world of difference between a Builder and a proffesional footballer..... Only in this case...they are BOTH muderers!!!

Stilloyal wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote: He is not a murderer, he is a drunk driver that had a terrible accident after believing he had sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep. This was an awful misjudgement and terrible mistake on his part and he deserved to be punished. Back in the 80's when I managed a local Sunday team I witnessed a hit and run by a drunken driver outside Headlands school. I had just finished training and I gave the police a description of the vehicle which was an Alegro. The driver dumped it in the Rodbourne Arms car park. However he was caught and received nine months for killing this poor woman, he was out after four. I thought his sentence was far too lenient same as this player. This builder was free to continue his trade after release. The question is if the builder was able to carry out his trade after release should McCormick ? or are we all guilty of double standards ? I'm not defending the footballer just trying to put a reasoned point of view. It's upsetting to witness something like this and I'll have that memory forever just as the guy who witnessed McCormick's misdemeanor. However life does go on and it's too short to hate for all that time, I wouldn't expect this poor mother to forgive nor forget , but accept that without her tragic sons life can still go on for everyone. Do I want to see McCormick in a Town shirt ? NO but for several reasons.

So...if a lout has a few bevvies...grabs a bit of sleep goes out...gets into a row and stabs someone then it's a terrible mistake because he's under the influence!!! Knife...Gun....Car.. .all lethal weapons in the wrong hands!!! He KNEW he had been drinking....he KNOWINGLY drove the car...was he forced to? NO..the result...a tragedy for the poor INNOCENT family. The fact remains....that the sentences dished out to these KILLERS are totaly inappropriate, yes...everyone deserves a second chance...but footballers lead priveleged lives in the the PUBLIC spotlight...yet another kick in the teeth for the poor family...if it was a job where he wouldn't be named in newspapers...if he could keep his head down and the family could never hear his name again then that's not quite has bad....what if he plays incredibly well?..does that mean that the innocent family have to now stop reading newspapers? What if he pulls an incredible performance out of the bag in a cup game against Premier opposition? I can only imagine if what I would feel like if a man who had killed my Children had his happy smiling face plastered all over the papers enjoying his life and new roll of 'HERO'. Yes....the modern world...let's put the feelings and pain of the victims at the bottom of the list...it's disgusting!!! A world of difference between a Builder and a proffesional footballer..... Only in this case...they are BOTH muderers!!!

Thats a poor arguement , firstly as I said if you read my post properly ,I stated that I wasn't defending McCormick. Secondly if you take a knife to deliberately stab someone then that is calculated and indeed murder. If you think you've sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep that is a serious misjudgement and one many of us could be guilty of. I agree as I've stated above that he shouldn't play for Swindon Town. If another club takes him on, and I doubt they will given all this publicity then thats there prerogative but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

dreamofacleansheet2 wrote:
35 you written to your MP about the level of sentences handed down?

If the media didn't sensationalise LM then indeed the family would be in a better place. I'll suggest to you the hysterical reaction on here is only likely to fuel that media coverage and therefore increase the families pain?

Stilloyal wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote: He is not a murderer, he is a drunk driver that had a terrible accident after believing he had sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep. This was an awful misjudgement and terrible mistake on his part and he deserved to be punished. Back in the 80's when I managed a local Sunday team I witnessed a hit and run by a drunken driver outside Headlands school. I had just finished training and I gave the police a description of the vehicle which was an Alegro. The driver dumped it in the Rodbourne Arms car park. However he was caught and received nine months for killing this poor woman, he was out after four. I thought his sentence was far too lenient same as this player. This builder was free to continue his trade after release. The question is if the builder was able to carry out his trade after release should McCormick ? or are we all guilty of double standards ? I'm not defending the footballer just trying to put a reasoned point of view. It's upsetting to witness something like this and I'll have that memory forever just as the guy who witnessed McCormick's misdemeanor. However life does go on and it's too short to hate for all that time, I wouldn't expect this poor mother to forgive nor forget , but accept that without her tragic sons life can still go on for everyone. Do I want to see McCormick in a Town shirt ? NO but for several reasons.

So...if a lout has a few bevvies...grabs a bit of sleep goes out...gets into a row and stabs someone then it's a terrible mistake because he's under the influence!!! Knife...Gun....Car.. .all lethal weapons in the wrong hands!!! He KNEW he had been drinking....he KNOWINGLY drove the car...was he forced to? NO..the result...a tragedy for the poor INNOCENT family. The fact remains....that the sentences dished out to these KILLERS are totaly inappropriate, yes...everyone deserves a second chance...but footballers lead priveleged lives in the the PUBLIC spotlight...yet another kick in the teeth for the poor family...if it was a job where he wouldn't be named in newspapers...if he could keep his head down and the family could never hear his name again then that's not quite has bad....what if he plays incredibly well?..does that mean that the innocent family have to now stop reading newspapers? What if he pulls an incredible performance out of the bag in a cup game against Premier opposition? I can only imagine if what I would feel like if a man who had killed my Children had his happy smiling face plastered all over the papers enjoying his life and new roll of 'HERO'. Yes....the modern world...let's put the feelings and pain of the victims at the bottom of the list...it's disgusting!!! A world of difference between a Builder and a proffesional footballer..... Only in this case...they are BOTH muderers!!!

Thats a poor arguement , firstly as I said if you read my post properly ,I stated that I wasn't defending McCormick. Secondly if you take a knife to deliberately stab someone then that is calculated and indeed murder. If you think you've sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep that is a serious misjudgement and one many of us could be guilty of. I agree as I've stated above that he shouldn't play for Swindon Town. If another club takes him on, and I doubt they will given all this publicity then thats there prerogative but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

Also there may be a world of difference between a builder and a footballer . However this builder had been drinking ALL day from opening time and was on his way to yet another pub to continue drinking.
McCormick had , had some sleep and made a grave misjudgement assuming he's probably had enough to give him a clear mind and good reflexes.
Both were wrong but for different reasons

Another view wrote:
JohnNeal4me says...
9:36am Thu 24 May 12
As a father whose son was murdered I find all the very negative responses to this very altruistic move by the Town management to be very demeaning of me and all the other Town supporters who are rather more enlightened. I find it very disappointing that there seems to be such a large swathe of the Town support that is still living in the dark ages. lets give it rest please."

After reading this I felt I was finally making my mind up, then read that the two boys' father is saying the punishment is far too lenient.

Whatever people's views on here it's clearly a lot more difficult than giving our views on football. Sadly it's very difficult to take a view when you hear of the heartache such incidents cause.

In the end I think I would have to go with the wishes of the boys' father - but then how does that make John Neal feel?

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote: He is not a murderer, he is a drunk driver that had a terrible accident after believing he had sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep. This was an awful misjudgement and terrible mistake on his part and he deserved to be punished. Back in the 80's when I managed a local Sunday team I witnessed a hit and run by a drunken driver outside Headlands school. I had just finished training and I gave the police a description of the vehicle which was an Alegro. The driver dumped it in the Rodbourne Arms car park. However he was caught and received nine months for killing this poor woman, he was out after four. I thought his sentence was far too lenient same as this player. This builder was free to continue his trade after release. The question is if the builder was able to carry out his trade after release should McCormick ? or are we all guilty of double standards ? I'm not defending the footballer just trying to put a reasoned point of view. It's upsetting to witness something like this and I'll have that memory forever just as the guy who witnessed McCormick's misdemeanor. However life does go on and it's too short to hate for all that time, I wouldn't expect this poor mother to forgive nor forget , but accept that without her tragic sons life can still go on for everyone. Do I want to see McCormick in a Town shirt ? NO but for several reasons.

So...if a lout has a few bevvies...grabs a bit of sleep goes out...gets into a row and stabs someone then it's a terrible mistake because he's under the influence!!! Knife...Gun....Car.. .all lethal weapons in the wrong hands!!! He KNEW he had been drinking....he KNOWINGLY drove the car...was he forced to? NO..the result...a tragedy for the poor INNOCENT family. The fact remains....that the sentences dished out to these KILLERS are totaly inappropriate, yes...everyone deserves a second chance...but footballers lead priveleged lives in the the PUBLIC spotlight...yet another kick in the teeth for the poor family...if it was a job where he wouldn't be named in newspapers...if he could keep his head down and the family could never hear his name again then that's not quite has bad....what if he plays incredibly well?..does that mean that the innocent family have to now stop reading newspapers? What if he pulls an incredible performance out of the bag in a cup game against Premier opposition? I can only imagine if what I would feel like if a man who had killed my Children had his happy smiling face plastered all over the papers enjoying his life and new roll of 'HERO'. Yes....the modern world...let's put the feelings and pain of the victims at the bottom of the list...it's disgusting!!! A world of difference between a Builder and a proffesional footballer..... Only in this case...they are BOTH muderers!!!

Thats a poor arguement , firstly as I said if you read my post properly ,I stated that I wasn't defending McCormick. Secondly if you take a knife to deliberately stab someone then that is calculated and indeed murder. If you think you've sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep that is a serious misjudgement and one many of us could be guilty of. I agree as I've stated above that he shouldn't play for Swindon Town. If another club takes him on, and I doubt they will given all this publicity then thats there prerogative but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

Also there may be a world of difference between a builder and a footballer . However this builder had been drinking ALL day from opening time and was on his way to yet another pub to continue drinking. McCormick had , had some sleep and made a grave misjudgement assuming he's probably had enough to give him a clear mind and good reflexes. Both were wrong but for different reasons

So...your argument is "Despite everyone over the age of ten knowing that a couple of hours sleep does not get the alcohol out of your system...despite for the past 20 years we have had the message "Do not drink and drive..you can kill" rammed down our throats..he made a "mis judgement""????? Also I never said you had defended LM...however don't tell me it was "an error of judgement"....he knew he had been drinking...he knew it was wrong to get into the car...he killed two children!!! My point about the knife is this....if you take a knife out regardless of whether you intend to use it and because your judgement is impaired due to drinking you stab someone it is still murder...likewise he may not have intended to use the car to kill someone but he drove it knowing he was under the influence which led to him killing two children, in my opinion it is skin to murder or at the very least manslaughter!!! Only complete idiots and morons carry a knife....only complete idiots drink and drive. Ask the families of victims of both sorts if it feels any different.

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote: He is not a murderer, he is a drunk driver that had a terrible accident after believing he had sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep. This was an awful misjudgement and terrible mistake on his part and he deserved to be punished. Back in the 80's when I managed a local Sunday team I witnessed a hit and run by a drunken driver outside Headlands school. I had just finished training and I gave the police a description of the vehicle which was an Alegro. The driver dumped it in the Rodbourne Arms car park. However he was caught and received nine months for killing this poor woman, he was out after four. I thought his sentence was far too lenient same as this player. This builder was free to continue his trade after release. The question is if the builder was able to carry out his trade after release should McCormick ? or are we all guilty of double standards ? I'm not defending the footballer just trying to put a reasoned point of view. It's upsetting to witness something like this and I'll have that memory forever just as the guy who witnessed McCormick's misdemeanor. However life does go on and it's too short to hate for all that time, I wouldn't expect this poor mother to forgive nor forget , but accept that without her tragic sons life can still go on for everyone. Do I want to see McCormick in a Town shirt ? NO but for several reasons.

So...if a lout has a few bevvies...grabs a bit of sleep goes out...gets into a row and stabs someone then it's a terrible mistake because he's under the influence!!! Knife...Gun....Car.. .all lethal weapons in the wrong hands!!! He KNEW he had been drinking....he KNOWINGLY drove the car...was he forced to? NO..the result...a tragedy for the poor INNOCENT family. The fact remains....that the sentences dished out to these KILLERS are totaly inappropriate, yes...everyone deserves a second chance...but footballers lead priveleged lives in the the PUBLIC spotlight...yet another kick in the teeth for the poor family...if it was a job where he wouldn't be named in newspapers...if he could keep his head down and the family could never hear his name again then that's not quite has bad....what if he plays incredibly well?..does that mean that the innocent family have to now stop reading newspapers? What if he pulls an incredible performance out of the bag in a cup game against Premier opposition? I can only imagine if what I would feel like if a man who had killed my Children had his happy smiling face plastered all over the papers enjoying his life and new roll of 'HERO'. Yes....the modern world...let's put the feelings and pain of the victims at the bottom of the list...it's disgusting!!! A world of difference between a Builder and a proffesional footballer..... Only in this case...they are BOTH muderers!!!

Thats a poor arguement , firstly as I said if you read my post properly ,I stated that I wasn't defending McCormick. Secondly if you take a knife to deliberately stab someone then that is calculated and indeed murder. If you think you've sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep that is a serious misjudgement and one many of us could be guilty of. I agree as I've stated above that he shouldn't play for Swindon Town. If another club takes him on, and I doubt they will given all this publicity then thats there prerogative but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

Also there may be a world of difference between a builder and a footballer . However this builder had been drinking ALL day from opening time and was on his way to yet another pub to continue drinking. McCormick had , had some sleep and made a grave misjudgement assuming he's probably had enough to give him a clear mind and good reflexes. Both were wrong but for different reasons

So...your argument is "Despite everyone over the age of ten knowing that a couple of hours sleep does not get the alcohol out of your system...despite for the past 20 years we have had the message "Do not drink and drive..you can kill" rammed down our throats..he made a "mis judgement""????? Also I never said you had defended LM...however don't tell me it was "an error of judgement"....he knew he had been drinking...he knew it was wrong to get into the car...he killed two children!!! My point about the knife is this....if you take a knife out regardless of whether you intend to use it and because your judgement is impaired due to drinking you stab someone it is still murder...likewise he may not have intended to use the car to kill someone but he drove it knowing he was under the influence which led to him killing two children, in my opinion it is skin to murder or at the very least manslaughter!!! Only complete idiots and morons carry a knife....only complete idiots drink and drive. Ask the families of victims of both sorts if it feels any different.

bivver wrote:
Quote today in The Sun online from Mrs Peak the mother, about McCormicks plea in court - “One of McCormick’s main points in his plea was that he will never play football again — that was obviously completely wrong. Mrs Peak must have gained some comfort from this plea at the time, but he has now back tracked to add insult to injury. McCormick used this defence in an attempt to gain some advantage in court, but it has been shown to be a cynical ploy. Distress has been caused to Mrs Peak again, and a sorry tale is dug up at a time when the Peaks should be looking for recovery Leave this man alone please Mr Wray !.

Stilloyal wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote: He is not a murderer, he is a drunk driver that had a terrible accident after believing he had sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep. This was an awful misjudgement and terrible mistake on his part and he deserved to be punished. Back in the 80's when I managed a local Sunday team I witnessed a hit and run by a drunken driver outside Headlands school. I had just finished training and I gave the police a description of the vehicle which was an Alegro. The driver dumped it in the Rodbourne Arms car park. However he was caught and received nine months for killing this poor woman, he was out after four. I thought his sentence was far too lenient same as this player. This builder was free to continue his trade after release. The question is if the builder was able to carry out his trade after release should McCormick ? or are we all guilty of double standards ? I'm not defending the footballer just trying to put a reasoned point of view. It's upsetting to witness something like this and I'll have that memory forever just as the guy who witnessed McCormick's misdemeanor. However life does go on and it's too short to hate for all that time, I wouldn't expect this poor mother to forgive nor forget , but accept that without her tragic sons life can still go on for everyone. Do I want to see McCormick in a Town shirt ? NO but for several reasons.

So...if a lout has a few bevvies...grabs a bit of sleep goes out...gets into a row and stabs someone then it's a terrible mistake because he's under the influence!!! Knife...Gun....Car.. .all lethal weapons in the wrong hands!!! He KNEW he had been drinking....he KNOWINGLY drove the car...was he forced to? NO..the result...a tragedy for the poor INNOCENT family. The fact remains....that the sentences dished out to these KILLERS are totaly inappropriate, yes...everyone deserves a second chance...but footballers lead priveleged lives in the the PUBLIC spotlight...yet another kick in the teeth for the poor family...if it was a job where he wouldn't be named in newspapers...if he could keep his head down and the family could never hear his name again then that's not quite has bad....what if he plays incredibly well?..does that mean that the innocent family have to now stop reading newspapers? What if he pulls an incredible performance out of the bag in a cup game against Premier opposition? I can only imagine if what I would feel like if a man who had killed my Children had his happy smiling face plastered all over the papers enjoying his life and new roll of 'HERO'. Yes....the modern world...let's put the feelings and pain of the victims at the bottom of the list...it's disgusting!!! A world of difference between a Builder and a proffesional footballer..... Only in this case...they are BOTH muderers!!!

Thats a poor arguement , firstly as I said if you read my post properly ,I stated that I wasn't defending McCormick. Secondly if you take a knife to deliberately stab someone then that is calculated and indeed murder. If you think you've sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep that is a serious misjudgement and one many of us could be guilty of. I agree as I've stated above that he shouldn't play for Swindon Town. If another club takes him on, and I doubt they will given all this publicity then thats there prerogative but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

Also there may be a world of difference between a builder and a footballer . However this builder had been drinking ALL day from opening time and was on his way to yet another pub to continue drinking. McCormick had , had some sleep and made a grave misjudgement assuming he's probably had enough to give him a clear mind and good reflexes. Both were wrong but for different reasons

So...your argument is "Despite everyone over the age of ten knowing that a couple of hours sleep does not get the alcohol out of your system...despite for the past 20 years we have had the message "Do not drink and drive..you can kill" rammed down our throats..he made a "mis judgement""????? Also I never said you had defended LM...however don't tell me it was "an error of judgement"....he knew he had been drinking...he knew it was wrong to get into the car...he killed two children!!! My point about the knife is this....if you take a knife out regardless of whether you intend to use it and because your judgement is impaired due to drinking you stab someone it is still murder...likewise he may not have intended to use the car to kill someone but he drove it knowing he was under the influence which led to him killing two children, in my opinion it is skin to murder or at the very least manslaughter!!! Only complete idiots and morons carry a knife....only complete idiots drink and drive. Ask the families of victims of both sorts if it feels any different.

I agree with the fact that only idiots carry a knife and only idiots drink and drive.
However a fundemental difference is that if you carry a knife it's for one purpose and that is you intend to stab someone. There arn't many people who deliberately get into a car drunk or otherwise intending to kill someone .
We both agree that this person shouldn't be allowed to play football for Swindon Town.
The difference between you and me is that you want to win an arguement whilst I'm just pointing out facts. Whether you agree or not these are the facts stated in my original post.

stfc2011 wrote:
Well i know it must be awful for the family involved and nothing can change what he did and the 2 kids that lost there life. Its very tragic. But like wray said it doesnt matter if he did 3 years 10 years or 20 years in prison it wont change whats happened. And what will prison do for him. I feel the lad knows he has done very wrong and he wakes up every day knowing what he done is awful and he has to live with this for the rest of his life. He needs to give something back to society like wray also said and if he can help stop others doing what he did then he will be helping in some way. I think he has served his time but maybe will never be enough. I think if he is prepared to admit what he did was awful and he wants to change his life for the better and help others not drink and drive then thats something and he deserves a chance for Swindon Town Fc. I for one will back our Board and Di Canio decsion to try and help him and will also support him if he plays in Goal for us as well. A lot of fans on here need to realise it could have been anyone of us driving that day. Im sure he didnt know he was going to get drunk and drive like a idiot. or plan it.

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote: He is not a murderer, he is a drunk driver that had a terrible accident after believing he had sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep. This was an awful misjudgement and terrible mistake on his part and he deserved to be punished. Back in the 80's when I managed a local Sunday team I witnessed a hit and run by a drunken driver outside Headlands school. I had just finished training and I gave the police a description of the vehicle which was an Alegro. The driver dumped it in the Rodbourne Arms car park. However he was caught and received nine months for killing this poor woman, he was out after four. I thought his sentence was far too lenient same as this player. This builder was free to continue his trade after release. The question is if the builder was able to carry out his trade after release should McCormick ? or are we all guilty of double standards ? I'm not defending the footballer just trying to put a reasoned point of view. It's upsetting to witness something like this and I'll have that memory forever just as the guy who witnessed McCormick's misdemeanor. However life does go on and it's too short to hate for all that time, I wouldn't expect this poor mother to forgive nor forget , but accept that without her tragic sons life can still go on for everyone. Do I want to see McCormick in a Town shirt ? NO but for several reasons.

So...if a lout has a few bevvies...grabs a bit of sleep goes out...gets into a row and stabs someone then it's a terrible mistake because he's under the influence!!! Knife...Gun....Car.. .all lethal weapons in the wrong hands!!! He KNEW he had been drinking....he KNOWINGLY drove the car...was he forced to? NO..the result...a tragedy for the poor INNOCENT family. The fact remains....that the sentences dished out to these KILLERS are totaly inappropriate, yes...everyone deserves a second chance...but footballers lead priveleged lives in the the PUBLIC spotlight...yet another kick in the teeth for the poor family...if it was a job where he wouldn't be named in newspapers...if he could keep his head down and the family could never hear his name again then that's not quite has bad....what if he plays incredibly well?..does that mean that the innocent family have to now stop reading newspapers? What if he pulls an incredible performance out of the bag in a cup game against Premier opposition? I can only imagine if what I would feel like if a man who had killed my Children had his happy smiling face plastered all over the papers enjoying his life and new roll of 'HERO'. Yes....the modern world...let's put the feelings and pain of the victims at the bottom of the list...it's disgusting!!! A world of difference between a Builder and a proffesional footballer..... Only in this case...they are BOTH muderers!!!

Thats a poor arguement , firstly as I said if you read my post properly ,I stated that I wasn't defending McCormick. Secondly if you take a knife to deliberately stab someone then that is calculated and indeed murder. If you think you've sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep that is a serious misjudgement and one many of us could be guilty of. I agree as I've stated above that he shouldn't play for Swindon Town. If another club takes him on, and I doubt they will given all this publicity then thats there prerogative but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

Also there may be a world of difference between a builder and a footballer . However this builder had been drinking ALL day from opening time and was on his way to yet another pub to continue drinking. McCormick had , had some sleep and made a grave misjudgement assuming he's probably had enough to give him a clear mind and good reflexes. Both were wrong but for different reasons

So...your argument is "Despite everyone over the age of ten knowing that a couple of hours sleep does not get the alcohol out of your system...despite for the past 20 years we have had the message "Do not drink and drive..you can kill" rammed down our throats..he made a "mis judgement""????? Also I never said you had defended LM...however don't tell me it was "an error of judgement"....he knew he had been drinking...he knew it was wrong to get into the car...he killed two children!!! My point about the knife is this....if you take a knife out regardless of whether you intend to use it and because your judgement is impaired due to drinking you stab someone it is still murder...likewise he may not have intended to use the car to kill someone but he drove it knowing he was under the influence which led to him killing two children, in my opinion it is skin to murder or at the very least manslaughter!!! Only complete idiots and morons carry a knife....only complete idiots drink and drive. Ask the families of victims of both sorts if it feels any different.

I agree with the fact that only idiots carry a knife and only idiots drink and drive. However a fundemental difference is that if you carry a knife it's for one purpose and that is you intend to stab someone. There arn't many people who deliberately get into a car drunk or otherwise intending to kill someone . We both agree that this person shouldn't be allowed to play football for Swindon Town. The difference between you and me is that you want to win an arguement whilst I'm just pointing out facts. Whether you agree or not these are the facts stated in my original post.

Firstly...this certainly was not about "Winning an argument"...which sounds pretty immature to me. Secondly you say you have stated only facts?!?! I recently caught my Nephew carrying a knife...he had no intention os using it....he would probably pee himself if you looked at him cross ways...after a smack around the ear from me and a little more from his Father I'm sure he won't be so sodding stupid again...he carried it because his mates carry them (Frightening isn't it). So your FACT that you only carry a knife for one thing is not really a FACT. Now if he had been drunk and got in a row he may..through not thinking clearly due to the alcohol pull the knife...if this happened as far as I'm concerned he would have at the very least commited Manslaughter...thats my OPINION...I care little if you agree or not or if you think my "argument" is all about point scoring (Although I have no idea who you are so why I should want that is a little beyond me) Now by the same token...if he (My Nephew) had been on the booze and then got into a car and then proceded to knock down two children and kill them then in my OPINION he is guilty of Manslaughter at the very least. In my OPINION a car in the hands of someone under the influence is every bit if not more lethal than a blade. If you do not agree then that is your OPINION and I appreciate that you are entitled to that..we do not have to agree...I do not care if we agree...if you had an argument that made me stop and think "Actually..that's a good point" I would hold my hands up and say "Hey..fair play...I think i'm wrong" which anyone who knows me could testify to. Now..I replied on here to a post by Another View which stopped me in my tracks and made me think....This was before you posted this last "view" of yours. So, my final view is this....I personally hope he does not sign for us....but if he does (and I think it is already done and dusted) then I truly hope everything is handled in a sensitive as possble way out of respect for the family.

Stratton Red wrote:

bivver wrote:
Quote today in The Sun online from Mrs Peak the mother, about McCormicks plea in court - “One of McCormick’s main points in his plea was that he will never play football again — that was obviously completely wrong. Mrs Peak must have gained some comfort from this plea at the time, but he has now back tracked to add insult to injury. McCormick used this defence in an attempt to gain some advantage in court, but it has been shown to be a cynical ploy. Distress has been caused to Mrs Peak again, and a sorry tale is dug up at a time when the Peaks should be looking for recovery Leave this man alone please Mr Wray !.

Bivver, thanks for pointing this out, this whole saga just seems to get worse and worse...
*
JW - to quote an old proverb. "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"...

Rondogers wrote:
I have been thinking long and hard about this and trying to put myself in his shoes. I don't understand how he can even consider returning to football, yes he deserves the right to work but he has given up his right to work in such a glamorous job. If I were Luke then the only reason for me returning to football would be so I could donate the high salary that comes with the job, I would take minimum wage and either give the money to the poor family he has affected or to a charity involved in drink driving. We don't know his motives, but if he thinks he can go back to his old life then he shows no remorse to that poor family. I am very disappointed in the board for even considering this!

mr_flibble wrote:

Rondogers wrote: I have been thinking long and hard about this and trying to put myself in his shoes. I don't understand how he can even consider returning to football, yes he deserves the right to work but he has given up his right to work in such a glamorous job. If I were Luke then the only reason for me returning to football would be so I could donate the high salary that comes with the job, I would take minimum wage and either give the money to the poor family he has affected or to a charity involved in drink driving. We don't know his motives, but if he thinks he can go back to his old life then he shows no remorse to that poor family. I am very disappointed in the board for even considering this!

Why has he given up his right to work in such a 'glamorous job'? Who says? If football is still his talent, he should be allowed to use it. He's paid his debt to society. His sentance didn't include a ruling that he must spend the rest of his life working for the min wage. Pure Jealousy and double standards. Is Lord Archer still in the house of lords after spending time in jail? Is that right? I thought I was right wing but the reaction from Town fans here is mostly based on hot air emotion without looking at the bigger/full picture. Take a long hard look at yourselfs. Of the things you consume or do, ask the question, does this make someone else worse off or does it exploit the vunerable? My clothes from a sweat shop is a good example again. Football fans are fickle and have short memories. The double standards of the majoirty of football fans is also breathtaking. 'Opposition player dives - he's a cheat' 'Our player dives - Its justified because others do it to us.' I haven't seen supporters not cheering Hughes or King goals.

Stilloyal wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

Stilloyal wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Stilloyal wrote: He is not a murderer, he is a drunk driver that had a terrible accident after believing he had sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep. This was an awful misjudgement and terrible mistake on his part and he deserved to be punished. Back in the 80's when I managed a local Sunday team I witnessed a hit and run by a drunken driver outside Headlands school. I had just finished training and I gave the police a description of the vehicle which was an Alegro. The driver dumped it in the Rodbourne Arms car park. However he was caught and received nine months for killing this poor woman, he was out after four. I thought his sentence was far too lenient same as this player. This builder was free to continue his trade after release. The question is if the builder was able to carry out his trade after release should McCormick ? or are we all guilty of double standards ? I'm not defending the footballer just trying to put a reasoned point of view. It's upsetting to witness something like this and I'll have that memory forever just as the guy who witnessed McCormick's misdemeanor. However life does go on and it's too short to hate for all that time, I wouldn't expect this poor mother to forgive nor forget , but accept that without her tragic sons life can still go on for everyone. Do I want to see McCormick in a Town shirt ? NO but for several reasons.

So...if a lout has a few bevvies...grabs a bit of sleep goes out...gets into a row and stabs someone then it's a terrible mistake because he's under the influence!!! Knife...Gun....Car.. .all lethal weapons in the wrong hands!!! He KNEW he had been drinking....he KNOWINGLY drove the car...was he forced to? NO..the result...a tragedy for the poor INNOCENT family. The fact remains....that the sentences dished out to these KILLERS are totaly inappropriate, yes...everyone deserves a second chance...but footballers lead priveleged lives in the the PUBLIC spotlight...yet another kick in the teeth for the poor family...if it was a job where he wouldn't be named in newspapers...if he could keep his head down and the family could never hear his name again then that's not quite has bad....what if he plays incredibly well?..does that mean that the innocent family have to now stop reading newspapers? What if he pulls an incredible performance out of the bag in a cup game against Premier opposition? I can only imagine if what I would feel like if a man who had killed my Children had his happy smiling face plastered all over the papers enjoying his life and new roll of 'HERO'. Yes....the modern world...let's put the feelings and pain of the victims at the bottom of the list...it's disgusting!!! A world of difference between a Builder and a proffesional footballer..... Only in this case...they are BOTH muderers!!!

Thats a poor arguement , firstly as I said if you read my post properly ,I stated that I wasn't defending McCormick. Secondly if you take a knife to deliberately stab someone then that is calculated and indeed murder. If you think you've sobered up enough after a couple of hours sleep that is a serious misjudgement and one many of us could be guilty of. I agree as I've stated above that he shouldn't play for Swindon Town. If another club takes him on, and I doubt they will given all this publicity then thats there prerogative but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

Also there may be a world of difference between a builder and a footballer . However this builder had been drinking ALL day from opening time and was on his way to yet another pub to continue drinking. McCormick had , had some sleep and made a grave misjudgement assuming he's probably had enough to give him a clear mind and good reflexes. Both were wrong but for different reasons

So...your argument is "Despite everyone over the age of ten knowing that a couple of hours sleep does not get the alcohol out of your system...despite for the past 20 years we have had the message "Do not drink and drive..you can kill" rammed down our throats..he made a "mis judgement""????? Also I never said you had defended LM...however don't tell me it was "an error of judgement"....he knew he had been drinking...he knew it was wrong to get into the car...he killed two children!!! My point about the knife is this....if you take a knife out regardless of whether you intend to use it and because your judgement is impaired due to drinking you stab someone it is still murder...likewise he may not have intended to use the car to kill someone but he drove it knowing he was under the influence which led to him killing two children, in my opinion it is skin to murder or at the very least manslaughter!!! Only complete idiots and morons carry a knife....only complete idiots drink and drive. Ask the families of victims of both sorts if it feels any different.

I agree with the fact that only idiots carry a knife and only idiots drink and drive.
However a fundemental difference is that if you carry a knife it's for one purpose and that is you intend to stab someone. There arn't many people who deliberately get into a car drunk or otherwise intending to kill someone .
We both agree that this person shouldn't be allowed to play football for Swindon Town.
The difference between you and me is that you want to win an arguement whilst I'm just pointing out facts. Whether you agree or not these are the facts stated in my original post.

zznewyork wrote:
This man is not a murderer the people who planted the lockerbie bomb,and the terrorist responsible for 9-11 are.

Stilloyal wrote:

mr_flibble wrote:

Rondogers wrote: I have been thinking long and hard about this and trying to put myself in his shoes. I don't understand how he can even consider returning to football, yes he deserves the right to work but he has given up his right to work in such a glamorous job. If I were Luke then the only reason for me returning to football would be so I could donate the high salary that comes with the job, I would take minimum wage and either give the money to the poor family he has affected or to a charity involved in drink driving. We don't know his motives, but if he thinks he can go back to his old life then he shows no remorse to that poor family. I am very disappointed in the board for even considering this!

Why has he given up his right to work in such a 'glamorous job'? Who says? If football is still his talent, he should be allowed to use it. He's paid his debt to society. His sentance didn't include a ruling that he must spend the rest of his life working for the min wage. Pure Jealousy and double standards. Is Lord Archer still in the house of lords after spending time in jail? Is that right? I thought I was right wing but the reaction from Town fans here is mostly based on hot air emotion without looking at the bigger/full picture. Take a long hard look at yourselfs. Of the things you consume or do, ask the question, does this make someone else worse off or does it exploit the vunerable? My clothes from a sweat shop is a good example again. Football fans are fickle and have short memories. The double standards of the majoirty of football fans is also breathtaking. 'Opposition player dives - he's a cheat' 'Our player dives - Its justified because others do it to us.' I haven't seen supporters not cheering Hughes or King goals.

Good post

Sniff my hoop wrote:
Some of the posts on here are quite frankly ridiculous. No-one need highlight the severity of the offence, I think most people on here are intelligent enough to realise that what occurred is truly tragic. And although opinions are divided on the punishment received/time served being sufficient, the fact of the matter remains that a person has served his sentence in jail, and upon release is looking to rehabilitate himself back into society, but obviously needs help in doing so. STFC have offered him a chance to ingratiate himself back into society… they have NOT offered him a contract or role within the club. As I understand it, they will not be doing so and are only offering him rehabilitation – Jeremy Wray has stated this himself. McCormick has been in contact with the PFA about working with young apprentices – it sounds very much to me that he is a man who is looking at how he can prevent such a tragedy from occurring again.
How many times have we read in the press about repeat offenders being sent back to jail mainly because they were offered no support or assistance when released from previous sentences? Personally I applaud STFC & Mr Wray for having the balls to actually offer him the assistance he requires - because if the outcome is simply that one young footballer doesn’t get behind the wheel of his car when over the limit then surely that is a positive outcome.
Don't villify the man for trying to make something better of his life. And don't villify STFC for helping him to do so... I would like to see other clubs follow suit and aid with the rehabilitation of those who have served time as surely society can only benefit.

the don69 wrote:

Sniff my hoop wrote: Some of the posts on here are quite frankly ridiculous. No-one need highlight the severity of the offence, I think most people on here are intelligent enough to realise that what occurred is truly tragic. And although opinions are divided on the punishment received/time served being sufficient, the fact of the matter remains that a person has served his sentence in jail, and upon release is looking to rehabilitate himself back into society, but obviously needs help in doing so. STFC have offered him a chance to ingratiate himself back into society… they have NOT offered him a contract or role within the club. As I understand it, they will not be doing so and are only offering him rehabilitation – Jeremy Wray has stated this himself. McCormick has been in contact with the PFA about working with young apprentices – it sounds very much to me that he is a man who is looking at how he can prevent such a tragedy from occurring again. How many times have we read in the press about repeat offenders being sent back to jail mainly because they were offered no support or assistance when released from previous sentences? Personally I applaud STFC & Mr Wray for having the balls to actually offer him the assistance he requires - because if the outcome is simply that one young footballer doesn’t get behind the wheel of his car when over the limit then surely that is a positive outcome. Don't villify the man for trying to make something better of his life. And don't villify STFC for helping him to do so... I would like to see other clubs follow suit and aid with the rehabilitation of those who have served time as surely society can only benefit.

Why did he say in court in his plea and defence,he would never play football again?(hoping for a lighter sentence maybe?)

bivver wrote:
Quote today in The Sun online from Mrs Peak the mother, about McCormicks plea in court - “One of McCormick’s main points in his plea was that he will never play football again — that was obviously completely wrong. Mrs Peak must have gained some comfort from this plea at the time, but he has now back tracked to add insult to injury. McCormick used this defence in an attempt to gain some advantage in court, but it has been shown to be a cynical ploy. Distress has been caused to Mrs Peak again, and a sorry tale is dug up at a time when the Peaks should be looking for recovery Leave this man alone please Mr Wray !.

Stilloyal wrote:
Good , sensible post although there are some here that will think you are condoning the actions of a murderer.

Sniff my hoop wrote:
Some of the posts on here are quite frankly ridiculous. No-one need highlight the severity of the offence, I think most people on here are intelligent enough to realise that what occurred is truly tragic. And although opinions are divided on the punishment received/time served being sufficient, the fact of the matter remains that a person has served his sentence in jail, and upon release is looking to rehabilitate himself back into society, but obviously needs help in doing so. STFC have offered him a chance to ingratiate himself back into society… they have NOT offered him a contract or role within the club. As I understand it, they will not be doing so and are only offering him rehabilitation – Jeremy Wray has stated this himself. McCormick has been in contact with the PFA about working with young apprentices – it sounds very much to me that he is a man who is looking at how he can prevent such a tragedy from occurring again.
How many times have we read in the press about repeat offenders being sent back to jail mainly because they were offered no support or assistance when released from previous sentences? Personally I applaud STFC & Mr Wray for having the balls to actually offer him the assistance he requires - because if the outcome is simply that one young footballer doesn’t get behind the wheel of his car when over the limit then surely that is a positive outcome.
Don't villify the man for trying to make something better of his life. And don't villify STFC for helping him to do so... I would like to see other clubs follow suit and aid with the rehabilitation of those who have served time as surely society can only benefit.

35yrRED wrote:

Sniff my hoop wrote: Some of the posts on here are quite frankly ridiculous. No-one need highlight the severity of the offence, I think most people on here are intelligent enough to realise that what occurred is truly tragic. And although opinions are divided on the punishment received/time served being sufficient, the fact of the matter remains that a person has served his sentence in jail, and upon release is looking to rehabilitate himself back into society, but obviously needs help in doing so. STFC have offered him a chance to ingratiate himself back into society… they have NOT offered him a contract or role within the club. As I understand it, they will not be doing so and are only offering him rehabilitation – Jeremy Wray has stated this himself. McCormick has been in contact with the PFA about working with young apprentices – it sounds very much to me that he is a man who is looking at how he can prevent such a tragedy from occurring again. How many times have we read in the press about repeat offenders being sent back to jail mainly because they were offered no support or assistance when released from previous sentences? Personally I applaud STFC & Mr Wray for having the balls to actually offer him the assistance he requires - because if the outcome is simply that one young footballer doesn’t get behind the wheel of his car when over the limit then surely that is a positive outcome. Don't villify the man for trying to make something better of his life. And don't villify STFC for helping him to do so... I would like to see other clubs follow suit and aid with the rehabilitation of those who have served time as surely society can only benefit.

In the article is says he will join us on trial next month when he is released, he has been training with us on day release and he is hoping to impress PDC so he gets offered a contract. Can you just point me to where he has spoken to the PFA about working with young appentices? I would like to give that a read..if thats the case and the Adver have totaly screwed this up then that really would be a good thing he is attempting to do!!!

the don69 wrote:

Sniff my hoop wrote:
Some of the posts on here are quite frankly ridiculous. No-one need highlight the severity of the offence, I think most people on here are intelligent enough to realise that what occurred is truly tragic. And although opinions are divided on the punishment received/time served being sufficient, the fact of the matter remains that a person has served his sentence in jail, and upon release is looking to rehabilitate himself back into society, but obviously needs help in doing so. STFC have offered him a chance to ingratiate himself back into society… they have NOT offered him a contract or role within the club. As I understand it, they will not be doing so and are only offering him rehabilitation – Jeremy Wray has stated this himself. McCormick has been in contact with the PFA about working with young apprentices – it sounds very much to me that he is a man who is looking at how he can prevent such a tragedy from occurring again.
How many times have we read in the press about repeat offenders being sent back to jail mainly because they were offered no support or assistance when released from previous sentences? Personally I applaud STFC & Mr Wray for having the balls to actually offer him the assistance he requires - because if the outcome is simply that one young footballer doesn’t get behind the wheel of his car when over the limit then surely that is a positive outcome.
Don't villify the man for trying to make something better of his life. And don't villify STFC for helping him to do so... I would like to see other clubs follow suit and aid with the rehabilitation of those who have served time as surely society can only benefit.

Why did he say in court in his plea and defence,he would never play football again?(hoping for a lighter sentence maybe?)

Sniff my hoop wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Sniff my hoop wrote: Some of the posts on here are quite frankly ridiculous. No-one need highlight the severity of the offence, I think most people on here are intelligent enough to realise that what occurred is truly tragic. And although opinions are divided on the punishment received/time served being sufficient, the fact of the matter remains that a person has served his sentence in jail, and upon release is looking to rehabilitate himself back into society, but obviously needs help in doing so. STFC have offered him a chance to ingratiate himself back into society… they have NOT offered him a contract or role within the club. As I understand it, they will not be doing so and are only offering him rehabilitation – Jeremy Wray has stated this himself. McCormick has been in contact with the PFA about working with young apprentices – it sounds very much to me that he is a man who is looking at how he can prevent such a tragedy from occurring again. How many times have we read in the press about repeat offenders being sent back to jail mainly because they were offered no support or assistance when released from previous sentences? Personally I applaud STFC & Mr Wray for having the balls to actually offer him the assistance he requires - because if the outcome is simply that one young footballer doesn’t get behind the wheel of his car when over the limit then surely that is a positive outcome. Don't villify the man for trying to make something better of his life. And don't villify STFC for helping him to do so... I would like to see other clubs follow suit and aid with the rehabilitation of those who have served time as surely society can only benefit.

In the article is says he will join us on trial next month when he is released, he has been training with us on day release and he is hoping to impress PDC so he gets offered a contract. Can you just point me to where he has spoken to the PFA about working with young appentices? I would like to give that a read..if thats the case and the Adver have totaly screwed this up then that really would be a good thing he is attempting to do!!!

Wouldn't be the first time the Adver posted incorrect info... and the tabloids are having a field day with this which irritates the crap out of me. Wray has been on both 5live and Sky News this afternoon clarifying the situation... I'm sure transcripts will appear online soon enough and will probably be replayed on Sky News & Sky Sports News throughout the day.

We are PANTS wrote:

smirg kcab wrote: He wont sign so let's move on. It will be another story that gets the town fans behind jwray for making an absolute correct call. Jwray we trust Onwards and upwards

Disagree Grim!!! He has been training since January.. He is going on tour... In my eye's it's a done deal.. I think the club have made thier decision and are just "softly softly" buttering us up.... I think it will take an almighty protest to change their minds............

mr_flibble wrote:
35 Year Red.

I'd love to know if you've ever been married in a church, before god (if you believe) and then went on to get divorsed?

If so, what ever happened to 'death do us part'?

If so, double standards.

35yrRED wrote:

Sniff my hoop wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

Sniff my hoop wrote: Some of the posts on here are quite frankly ridiculous. No-one need highlight the severity of the offence, I think most people on here are intelligent enough to realise that what occurred is truly tragic. And although opinions are divided on the punishment received/time served being sufficient, the fact of the matter remains that a person has served his sentence in jail, and upon release is looking to rehabilitate himself back into society, but obviously needs help in doing so. STFC have offered him a chance to ingratiate himself back into society… they have NOT offered him a contract or role within the club. As I understand it, they will not be doing so and are only offering him rehabilitation – Jeremy Wray has stated this himself. McCormick has been in contact with the PFA about working with young apprentices – it sounds very much to me that he is a man who is looking at how he can prevent such a tragedy from occurring again. How many times have we read in the press about repeat offenders being sent back to jail mainly because they were offered no support or assistance when released from previous sentences? Personally I applaud STFC & Mr Wray for having the balls to actually offer him the assistance he requires - because if the outcome is simply that one young footballer doesn’t get behind the wheel of his car when over the limit then surely that is a positive outcome. Don't villify the man for trying to make something better of his life. And don't villify STFC for helping him to do so... I would like to see other clubs follow suit and aid with the rehabilitation of those who have served time as surely society can only benefit.

In the article is says he will join us on trial next month when he is released, he has been training with us on day release and he is hoping to impress PDC so he gets offered a contract. Can you just point me to where he has spoken to the PFA about working with young appentices? I would like to give that a read..if thats the case and the Adver have totaly screwed this up then that really would be a good thing he is attempting to do!!!

Wouldn't be the first time the Adver posted incorrect info... and the tabloids are having a field day with this which irritates the crap out of me. Wray has been on both 5live and Sky News this afternoon clarifying the situation... I'm sure transcripts will appear online soon enough and will probably be replayed on Sky News & Sky Sports News throughout the day.

Cheers mate!!! I'm going to put SSN on now...if this is the case and there was never any intention of giving him a contract the boys at the Adver need sorting out with the rough end of a pineapple!!! If he is indeed planning on working with youngsters and trying to stop others making the mistakes he has then everyone should back him...I'll be among the first to apologise....just before the Adver gets one hell of an E-Mail from me!!!

smirg kcab wrote:

We are PANTS wrote:

smirg kcab wrote: He wont sign so let's move on. It will be another story that gets the town fans behind jwray for making an absolute correct call. Jwray we trust Onwards and upwards

Disagree Grim!!! He has been training since January.. He is going on tour... In my eye's it's a done deal.. I think the club have made thier decision and are just "softly softly" buttering us up.... I think it will take an almighty protest to change their minds............

this site is a powerful tool, and i.m.o jwray has looked and been told, so the outcome of him not signing is obvious.
onwards and upwards

mr_flibble wrote:
35yrRED

Sorry to pick on you individually, but the question goes out to all who have been married in a church who then get divorsed.

The point was, you made a statement, a committment, and then went back on it. Lots are refering to LM statement at trial that he wouldn't play professionally again. The married in a church example is a similar principle and how many can say 'hoiler than thou'.

Remember a trial would be a very stressful experience and this could affect your judgement in what you say.

It wouldn't have got him a leaner sentance anyway, as he received pretty much the maximum you can for manslaughter. I think the most you can get is 8 years so not much difference.

We are PANTS wrote:

smirg kcab wrote:

We are PANTS wrote:

smirg kcab wrote: He wont sign so let's move on. It will be another story that gets the town fans behind jwray for making an absolute correct call. Jwray we trust Onwards and upwards

Disagree Grim!!! He has been training since January.. He is going on tour... In my eye's it's a done deal.. I think the club have made thier decision and are just "softly softly" buttering us up.... I think it will take an almighty protest to change their minds............

this site is a powerful tool, and i.m.o jwray has looked and been told, so the outcome of him not signing is obvious.
onwards and upwards

Good point!! Maybe?? Time will tell though......

mr_flibble wrote:
35yrRED

Sorry to pick on you individually, but the question goes out to all who have been married in a church who then get divorsed.

The point was, you made a statement, a committment, and then went back on it. Lots are refering to LM statement at trial that he wouldn't play professionally again. The married in a church example is a similar principle and how many can say 'hoiler than thou'.

Remember a trial would be a very stressful experience and this could affect your judgement in what you say.

It wouldn't have got him a leaner sentance anyway, as he received pretty much the maximum you can for manslaughter. I think the most you can get is 8 years so not much difference.

dreamofacleansheet2 wrote:
Anyone written to their MP yet complaining about sentences for drink drivers who cause death?

.......

Oh thought not......

Perhaps you were all in the Town wearing your blue Chelsea's shirts for Drogba yesterday. As you're all deserting the club perhaps you could all go and join him in Shanghai?

the wizard wrote:
Simple questions, why hasn't he gone back to Plymouth ? why come here ? are we now seen as a soft touch ?

ICDeadpeople wrote:
How many players that we try to sign will now not want to come here because we might sign McCormick?
.
Especially if they have a family to move to the area. Their wives/girlfriends will have a big say in this matter.
.
I imagine a lot of players won't want to be associated with the club because of McCormick.

stevehalloz wrote:
He did a very stupid, illegal thing. The consequences were catastrophic for the people in the other car and also for himself.

His life will never be the same again. Granted, he isn't dead or paralysed, but who among you would want to swap places with him? And who among you hasn't done something stupid and illegal that could have had equally catastrophic consequences? I know I have.

Loss of his career, four years in jail (and I would go mad spending a week in jail, never mind 4 years), massive remorse, huge publicity, certainty of abuse wherever he goes - not exactly a picnic.

Even murderers and rapists have a chance for rehabilitation once they have served their time, and he deserves a chance too.

So does he deserve a chance? Yes.

Should it be in football? To be honest, if I were him I'd probably avoid it like the plague knowing the stick I'd get every game, so if nothing else he has guts. But who are we to say "yes you can be rehabilitated and you deserve to get a job - but not in your profession." So yes, he should be allowed to be rehabilitated in football.

Should it be with Swindon? Well, if we truly believe he deserves a chance why not. Because we can't cope with the publicity? Because we don't want to be slagged off by other teams? That's just "not me-ism."

If he has shown remorse, which he has, if his life has been ruined, which it has, if he deserves a chance to make amends, which he does, if he should be allowed to follow his profession, which he should, if we have the courage of our beliefs we should give him that chance.

A brave decision by Mr Wray and one that shows a great deal of compassion and moral courage. I can live with that.

Town Of The Future wrote:
eastleaze, why dont you give it a rest instead of trying to convince me this guy deserve a highly privileged lifestyle. no? thats right. cos you have a right to post, as do i. i'm not telling anyone else not to go to games, nor hold the club to ransom as i'm quite sure wray doesn't give a toss what half the fanbase think. i'm simply paying i, myself and my kids will not be going to a club which supports a child killer. and i'm certainly not going to sit and explain to my boys why away fans are shouting things like 'murderer' to our goalkeeper!

graham81 wrote:

Town Of The Future wrote:
eastleaze, why dont you give it a rest instead of trying to convince me this guy deserve a highly privileged lifestyle. no? thats right. cos you have a right to post, as do i. i'm not telling anyone else not to go to games, nor hold the club to ransom as i'm quite sure wray doesn't give a toss what half the fanbase think. i'm simply paying i, myself and my kids will not be going to a club which supports a child killer. and i'm certainly not going to sit and explain to my boys why away fans are shouting things like 'murderer' to our goalkeeper!

Spot on post mate !!! Taken the words write out of my mouth

zznewyork wrote:
A phone call from his room mate pleading with him to stop again shows he KNEW what he was doing...............

...........

with the greatest respect sir,i think the opposite,it shows he did not know what he was doing
we all know when your drunk you dont think straight.

mr_flibble wrote:
According to the CPS website sentancing guidlines changed on 15 July 2008. LM was sentanced on 6 October 2008, so was within the new guidlines.

The max you can get (bear in mind all the complex circumstances) is indeed 14 years with a min of 7 years.

This is still way more than it used to be. Anyone remember those kids killed in Acre's Way Swindon when he only got 2 years or something?

35yrRED wrote:

zznewyork wrote: A phone call from his room mate pleading with him to stop again shows he KNEW what he was doing............... ........... with the greatest respect sir,i think the opposite,it shows he did not know what he was doing we all know when your drunk you dont think straight.

So...his mate tells him before he leaves, he phones him again to tell him what he is doing is wrong BUT IT SHOWS HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING!!! If he was that p1ssed then I'm afraid he would not have been able to drive 100 yards!!!! Maybe you should read all of it yourself....he was 2 times the legal limit....that is far too dangerous to drive a car (That's why there is a limit) it is not so much that it turned a healthy fit footballer into a complete dribbling cretin with no sense of right or wrong!!! All of this was proved at his court case...so with the greatest respect to YOU sir....you are talking cobblers!!!

EastleazeRed wrote:
Gotta laugh at how this story is being twisted, and some of the quote's in the national newspapers , this one from the Sun reads " luke mc cormac is to be offered a full contract by BAD BOY manager Paolo Di Canio "

zznewyork wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

zznewyork wrote: A phone call from his room mate pleading with him to stop again shows he KNEW what he was doing............... ........... with the greatest respect sir,i think the opposite,it shows he did not know what he was doing we all know when your drunk you dont think straight.

So...his mate tells him before he leaves, he phones him again to tell him what he is doing is wrong BUT IT SHOWS HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING!!! If he was that p1ssed then I'm afraid he would not have been able to drive 100 yards!!!! Maybe you should read all of it yourself....he was 2 times the legal limit....that is far too dangerous to drive a car (That's why there is a limit) it is not so much that it turned a healthy fit footballer into a complete dribbling cretin with no sense of right or wrong!!! All of this was proved at his court case...so with the greatest respect to YOU sir....you are talking cobblers!!!

I,m talking cobblers because i dont share your view?
Of course it was proven at his court case,i have never known anyone not guilty because he was drunk.
I am not on this guys side,what he did was very very wrong,but the point i was making when you drink that much you dont know what your doing,thats why its against the law,its not a defence,he took the lives of two children,and ruined the life of his own son,before you say at least he will be able to se his dad,thats no fault of the child,should we deprive him of being able to support his family? I dont know i,m not that clever.So keep your cobblers in your pocket.

zznewyork wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

zznewyork wrote: A phone call from his room mate pleading with him to stop again shows he KNEW what he was doing............... ........... with the greatest respect sir,i think the opposite,it shows he did not know what he was doing we all know when your drunk you dont think straight.

So...his mate tells him before he leaves, he phones him again to tell him what he is doing is wrong BUT IT SHOWS HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING!!! If he was that p1ssed then I'm afraid he would not have been able to drive 100 yards!!!! Maybe you should read all of it yourself....he was 2 times the legal limit....that is far too dangerous to drive a car (That's why there is a limit) it is not so much that it turned a healthy fit footballer into a complete dribbling cretin with no sense of right or wrong!!! All of this was proved at his court case...so with the greatest respect to YOU sir....you are talking cobblers!!!

I,m talking cobblers because i dont share your view?
Of course it was proven at his court case,i have never known anyone not guilty because he was drunk.
I am not on this guys side,what he did was very very wrong,but the point i was making when you drink that much you dont know what your doing,thats why its against the law,its not a defence,he took the lives of two children,and ruined the life of his own son,before you say at least he will be able to se his dad,thats no fault of the child,should we deprive him of being able to support his family? I dont know i,m not that clever.So keep your cobblers in your pocket.

35yrRED wrote:

zznewyork wrote:

35yrRED wrote:

zznewyork wrote: A phone call from his room mate pleading with him to stop again shows he KNEW what he was doing............... ........... with the greatest respect sir,i think the opposite,it shows he did not know what he was doing we all know when your drunk you dont think straight.

So...his mate tells him before he leaves, he phones him again to tell him what he is doing is wrong BUT IT SHOWS HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING!!! If he was that p1ssed then I'm afraid he would not have been able to drive 100 yards!!!! Maybe you should read all of it yourself....he was 2 times the legal limit....that is far too dangerous to drive a car (That's why there is a limit) it is not so much that it turned a healthy fit footballer into a complete dribbling cretin with no sense of right or wrong!!! All of this was proved at his court case...so with the greatest respect to YOU sir....you are talking cobblers!!!

I,m talking cobblers because i dont share your view? Of course it was proven at his court case,i have never known anyone not guilty because he was drunk. I am not on this guys side,what he did was very very wrong,but the point i was making when you drink that much you dont know what your doing,thats why its against the law,its not a defence,he took the lives of two children,and ruined the life of his own son,before you say at least he will be able to se his dad,thats no fault of the child,should we deprive him of being able to support his family? I dont know i,m not that clever.So keep your cobblers in your pocket.

OK...cobblers in my pocket!!! (And I'm not fiddling with them)...but during the trial it became apparent that although he was way over the limit and his reactions were badly impaired he was not so far gone as to not realise what her was doing was wrong...he was et up over some false alligations concerning his Fiancee'... he stewed on it for just over 2 hours in his hotel room before deciding he was going to confront her...he actually admitted that he knew what he was doing was wrong, and he admitted that he knew it was dangerous to drive...at the time people were disgusted that he could have admitted this a month earlier in court but because he did not it made the family go through the whole thing again...he only admitted it after the full evidence including his room mates testimony was laid bare...he knew he had too much to drink, he knew he was feeling jet lagged (He had just returned from New York and went staright to the wedding) but he still decided to go because he was 'annoyed'. All I'm saying is that they proved he was aware of it all, and he admitted has such. Anyway...have a quick peek at the new article..there are some more posts on there...including one from me that you may find interesting. In the mean time my Misses just pulled up....so I'm getting my cobblers back out!!!

stevehalloz wrote:
Quick question. How many people here have driven their car after drinking 4 pints (enough to get you twice over the limit)?

I'll put my hand up and say I have many times when I was younger. I'm not proud of it but it's true - so it could have been me. Or if you have, even once, it could have been you.

How many people here have driven while on a mobile phone - proven to be at least as dangerous as driving twice over the limit? I have - and if you have, this could have been you.

If you've ever done something illegal or stupid that could have resulted in a catastrophe like this, then have some compassion. And understand the difference between murder and a stupid, tragic, criminal accident. The law does.

I suggest everyone in the "murdering **** lock him up and throw away the key never watch Swindon again camp" adds a quck paragraph saying it could never possibly have happened to them because they have never taken a risk or made a bad mistake.

I look forward to hearing from both of you.

The-Swindon-Man wrote:
Until anyone is affected by a drink driver, I don't think anyone can fully understand what affects it has on that person or family.

Sorry, but Luke is NOT welcome at this club.

Wray needs to make a decision. It's Luke or me. Make up your mind Wray.

RobinsTalk wrote:
All this no sin, first stone claptrap is getting on my wick.
As mentioned on the other thread, if the family can't forgive, and I don't blame them, I couldn't in their situation, then McCormick has no place at a FAMILY club.