Watch out for the bus lane

A CONSULTATION has been opened to give residents and drivers the chance to give their thoughts on plans to install cameras at the town’s bus gates.

There are also plans to put cameras along many of the bus lanes.

The aim of the scheme is to prevent unauthorised drivers from using them and slowing down Swindon’s public transport system.

A survey was carried out on bus gates in 2010, which showed they were misused an estimated 16,000 times per week.

The council is looking to introduce the cameras as a way of supporting the police, who lack the resources to provide round the clock enforcement.

The scheme was given approval by the council in March this year and will cost about £180,000.

Motorists who are found to be misusing the bus gates or lanes will face up to £90 in fines, with all revenue raised going towards covering costs, estimated to be around £30,000 per year, and road maintenance.

If introduced, the order being put forward would cover all of Swindon’s 22 bus gates and 15 bus lanes, although this might not cover all of them at the same time.

A spokesman for the council said: “The main reason for enforcement is to deter people from abusing the bus lanes and bus gates.

“It’s unfortunate that it’s necessary, but there is no point in having priority measures designed to make public transport more attractive if buses are delayed by cars driving where they shouldn’t.

“We won’t have cameras at every site all the time, but they will be mobile and could be used at any of the locations listed in the traffic order.

“We will also be putting up signs to warn drivers that cameras could be in operation.”

It is also hoped that by introducing the cameras, buses will move more freely and therefore become a more attractive option for people.

The digital cameras, expected to come into operation later this year, would disregard authorised vehicles.

But other motorists would receive a £60 fine, which would be halved if paid within 14 days, or increased to £90 if unpaid within 56 days.

People have until Christmas Eve to register their views on the cameras by visiting the highways section of the council website at www.swindon.gov.uk /ts/ts-roadshighways.

Comments (22)

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7:37am Tue 17 Dec 13

Always Grumpy says...

And the cash strapped council are bleating about lack of money and the necessity for putting up council taxes.
This can only be a money making scam to fleece motorists - nothing else.
And the cash strapped council are bleating about lack of money and the necessity for putting up council taxes. This can only be a money making scam to fleece motorists - nothing else. Always Grumpy

7:50am Tue 17 Dec 13

Oldswindonian says...

Always Grumpy wrote:
And the cash strapped council are bleating about lack of money and the necessity for putting up council taxes.
This can only be a money making scam to fleece motorists - nothing else.
Only motorists who abuse bus lanes. As I do not then I wont get fleeced. Common sense?
[quote][p][bold]Always Grumpy[/bold] wrote: And the cash strapped council are bleating about lack of money and the necessity for putting up council taxes. This can only be a money making scam to fleece motorists - nothing else.[/p][/quote]Only motorists who abuse bus lanes. As I do not then I wont get fleeced. Common sense? Oldswindonian

8:34am Tue 17 Dec 13

Ringer says...

What a complete farce.

The discussions should not be about draconian over-enforcement of these ridiculous bus lanes but about getting rid of them completely.

We should be following the eminently sensible approach of Liverpool Council, as soon as possible.
What a complete farce. The discussions should not be about draconian over-enforcement of these ridiculous bus lanes but about getting rid of them completely. We should be following the eminently sensible approach of Liverpool Council, as soon as possible. Ringer

8:34am Tue 17 Dec 13

A.Baron-Cohen says...

I would support CCTV at the bus gates only if bus lanes are then opened to all traffic in the evenings and week ends.
I would support CCTV at the bus gates only if bus lanes are then opened to all traffic in the evenings and week ends. A.Baron-Cohen

10:30am Tue 17 Dec 13

nobody says...

About time, Church Place bus gate is completely ignored by people desperate to get to the Bristol Street car park a few seconds earlier.
Even more dangerous now with all the construction traffic in the area.
Also Penzance Drive bus lane/gate outside the Outlet is ignored by people desperate to go shopping or people who live in the expensive boxes built off Penzance Drive.
About time, Church Place bus gate is completely ignored by people desperate to get to the Bristol Street car park a few seconds earlier. Even more dangerous now with all the construction traffic in the area. Also Penzance Drive bus lane/gate outside the Outlet is ignored by people desperate to go shopping or people who live in the expensive boxes built off Penzance Drive. nobody

10:33am Tue 17 Dec 13

Tyran66 says...

Last time I checked I did not received a road tax rebate when the bus lanes were introduced? Why should I now be fined should I happen to stray into a specific section of the road network that I pay for?

They are entirely pointless and waste valid space on our already congested roads. While the council are at it they could reintroduce the carrier pigeon network, they are about as relevant as our bus lanes!

(N.B. Naturally a heavy fine should be in place for any found to be shooting and eating said carrier pigeons, essential you see)
Last time I checked I did not received a road tax rebate when the bus lanes were introduced? Why should I now be fined should I happen to stray into a specific section of the road network that I pay for? They are entirely pointless and waste valid space on our already congested roads. While the council are at it they could reintroduce the carrier pigeon network, they are about as relevant as our bus lanes! (N.B. Naturally a heavy fine should be in place for any found to be shooting and eating said carrier pigeons, essential you see) Tyran66

11:07am Tue 17 Dec 13

Ringer says...

Oldswindonian wrote:
Always Grumpy wrote:
And the cash strapped council are bleating about lack of money and the necessity for putting up council taxes.
This can only be a money making scam to fleece motorists - nothing else.
Only motorists who abuse bus lanes. As I do not then I wont get fleeced. Common sense?
'Abuse' bus lanes?

What, you mean, drive down a road that's simply been painted a different colour after somebody who was voted in to represent your wishes has arbitrarily decided to do something (using your money) that's against your wishes and makes life more difficult than it needs to be?

REMOVE THE BUS LANES, NOW.
[quote][p][bold]Oldswindonian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Always Grumpy[/bold] wrote: And the cash strapped council are bleating about lack of money and the necessity for putting up council taxes. This can only be a money making scam to fleece motorists - nothing else.[/p][/quote]Only motorists who abuse bus lanes. As I do not then I wont get fleeced. Common sense?[/p][/quote]'Abuse' bus lanes? What, you mean, drive down a road that's simply been painted a different colour after somebody who was voted in to represent your wishes has arbitrarily decided to do something (using your money) that's against your wishes and makes life more difficult than it needs to be? REMOVE THE BUS LANES, NOW. Ringer

11:14am Tue 17 Dec 13

AndySN3 says...

What about a camera system to enforce speed limits for buses??

Are they exempt from prosecution? The ones who thunder along Shrivenham Road obviously think they are, along with the bl00dy idiot who tears up at 7am every weekday on his motorbike thinking he is at Silverstone!! Does anybody know where to get cheese wire??
What about a camera system to enforce speed limits for buses?? Are they exempt from prosecution? The ones who thunder along Shrivenham Road obviously think they are, along with the bl00dy idiot who tears up at 7am every weekday on his motorbike thinking he is at Silverstone!! Does anybody know where to get cheese wire?? AndySN3

11:28am Tue 17 Dec 13

cjones03824 says...

nobody wrote:
About time, Church Place bus gate is completely ignored by people desperate to get to the Bristol Street car park a few seconds earlier.
Even more dangerous now with all the construction traffic in the area.
Also Penzance Drive bus lane/gate outside the Outlet is ignored by people desperate to go shopping or people who live in the expensive boxes built off Penzance Drive.
Church Place isn't a bus gate any more!! it has not been for around 18 months now. if you notice the signs have been taken down and are no longer displayed!
[quote][p][bold]nobody[/bold] wrote: About time, Church Place bus gate is completely ignored by people desperate to get to the Bristol Street car park a few seconds earlier. Even more dangerous now with all the construction traffic in the area. Also Penzance Drive bus lane/gate outside the Outlet is ignored by people desperate to go shopping or people who live in the expensive boxes built off Penzance Drive.[/p][/quote]Church Place isn't a bus gate any more!! it has not been for around 18 months now. if you notice the signs have been taken down and are no longer displayed! cjones03824

11:37am Tue 17 Dec 13

VotingFloaterUK says...

A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
I would support CCTV at the bus gates only if bus lanes are then opened to all traffic in the evenings and week ends.
Bus Lanes are already open to all traffic in the evenings, not that anyone in Swindon seems to realise this.

Enforcement on bus gates seems like a good idea. I think the Council will have a much harder job selling the idea of bus lane cameras to the public. I've heard of people in London being fined when using a bus lane to avoid emergency vehicles and, in one case, even swerving to avoid a pedestrian who ran out in front of them. Both of these had their fines upheld on appeal.

By the way Tyran66, road tax was abolished in 1937. You pay an emissions tax. Roads are funded from general taxation.
[quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: I would support CCTV at the bus gates only if bus lanes are then opened to all traffic in the evenings and week ends.[/p][/quote]Bus Lanes are already open to all traffic in the evenings, not that anyone in Swindon seems to realise this. Enforcement on bus gates seems like a good idea. I think the Council will have a much harder job selling the idea of bus lane cameras to the public. I've heard of people in London being fined when using a bus lane to avoid emergency vehicles and, in one case, even swerving to avoid a pedestrian who ran out in front of them. Both of these had their fines upheld on appeal. By the way Tyran66, road tax was abolished in 1937. You pay an emissions tax. Roads are funded from general taxation. VotingFloaterUK

11:54am Tue 17 Dec 13

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

VotingFloaterUK wrote:
A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
I would support CCTV at the bus gates only if bus lanes are then opened to all traffic in the evenings and week ends.
Bus Lanes are already open to all traffic in the evenings, not that anyone in Swindon seems to realise this.

Enforcement on bus gates seems like a good idea. I think the Council will have a much harder job selling the idea of bus lane cameras to the public. I've heard of people in London being fined when using a bus lane to avoid emergency vehicles and, in one case, even swerving to avoid a pedestrian who ran out in front of them. Both of these had their fines upheld on appeal.

By the way Tyran66, road tax was abolished in 1937. You pay an emissions tax. Roads are funded from general taxation.
Some bus lanes are, not all of them.
[quote][p][bold]VotingFloaterUK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: I would support CCTV at the bus gates only if bus lanes are then opened to all traffic in the evenings and week ends.[/p][/quote]Bus Lanes are already open to all traffic in the evenings, not that anyone in Swindon seems to realise this. Enforcement on bus gates seems like a good idea. I think the Council will have a much harder job selling the idea of bus lane cameras to the public. I've heard of people in London being fined when using a bus lane to avoid emergency vehicles and, in one case, even swerving to avoid a pedestrian who ran out in front of them. Both of these had their fines upheld on appeal. By the way Tyran66, road tax was abolished in 1937. You pay an emissions tax. Roads are funded from general taxation.[/p][/quote]Some bus lanes are, not all of them. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man

1:39pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Ringer says...

VotingFloaterUK wrote:
A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
I would support CCTV at the bus gates only if bus lanes are then opened to all traffic in the evenings and week ends.
Bus Lanes are already open to all traffic in the evenings, not that anyone in Swindon seems to realise this.

Enforcement on bus gates seems like a good idea. I think the Council will have a much harder job selling the idea of bus lane cameras to the public. I've heard of people in London being fined when using a bus lane to avoid emergency vehicles and, in one case, even swerving to avoid a pedestrian who ran out in front of them. Both of these had their fines upheld on appeal.

By the way Tyran66, road tax was abolished in 1937. You pay an emissions tax. Roads are funded from general taxation.
Nonsense. The government rakes in around £50bn per year from the various direct motorist taxes.

In return, it spends c.£9bn - in total - on the road network.

Motorists therefore contribute around 25% of the running costs of the benefits system.
[quote][p][bold]VotingFloaterUK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: I would support CCTV at the bus gates only if bus lanes are then opened to all traffic in the evenings and week ends.[/p][/quote]Bus Lanes are already open to all traffic in the evenings, not that anyone in Swindon seems to realise this. Enforcement on bus gates seems like a good idea. I think the Council will have a much harder job selling the idea of bus lane cameras to the public. I've heard of people in London being fined when using a bus lane to avoid emergency vehicles and, in one case, even swerving to avoid a pedestrian who ran out in front of them. Both of these had their fines upheld on appeal. By the way Tyran66, road tax was abolished in 1937. You pay an emissions tax. Roads are funded from general taxation.[/p][/quote]Nonsense. The government rakes in around £50bn per year from the various direct motorist taxes. In return, it spends c.£9bn - in total - on the road network. Motorists therefore contribute around 25% of the running costs of the benefits system. Ringer

1:49pm Tue 17 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

Dont think it is quite that simplistic to be fair!!!! And no taxation goes directly back into what it is raised on, it is all one pot used for all areas of Govt spending.
Dont think it is quite that simplistic to be fair!!!! And no taxation goes directly back into what it is raised on, it is all one pot used for all areas of Govt spending. house on the hill

3:07pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Tyran66 says...

@Votingfloater UK.

Being pedantic eh? Well if you want to talk emissions according to a recent DFT report the average bus emits 221g CO2/KM per passenger. Twice that of a large German exec car say a 5 series / A6 / E-Class. perhaps we should charge all bus passengers an emissions surcharge.

Or perhaps you could just stop being silly and accept that motorists pay road tax which goes into the giant government pot to be spent on whatever they fancy. (except ironically the roads).

Their are options - Rather than fining people for using the bus lanes why not toll them at say 10p a mile? Or my personal favourite just tear them up.
@Votingfloater UK. Being pedantic eh? Well if you want to talk emissions according to a recent DFT report the average bus emits 221g CO2/KM per passenger. Twice that of a large German exec car say a 5 series / A6 / E-Class. perhaps we should charge all bus passengers an emissions surcharge. Or perhaps you could just stop being silly and accept that motorists pay road tax which goes into the giant government pot to be spent on whatever they fancy. (except ironically the roads). Their are options - Rather than fining people for using the bus lanes why not toll them at say 10p a mile? Or my personal favourite just tear them up. Tyran66

3:30pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Ringer says...

house on the hill wrote:
Dont think it is quite that simplistic to be fair!!!! And no taxation goes directly back into what it is raised on, it is all one pot used for all areas of Govt spending.
Yes, we know that's what happens, but when a tax is only payable due to direct use of something, you'd kind of expect a decent percentage of it to be used to improve that which generates the tax in the first place.

My point was really that when people say those who don't use the roads are also paying for them, it's actually completely untrue.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: Dont think it is quite that simplistic to be fair!!!! And no taxation goes directly back into what it is raised on, it is all one pot used for all areas of Govt spending.[/p][/quote]Yes, we know that's what happens, but when a tax is only payable due to direct use of something, you'd kind of expect a decent percentage of it to be used to improve that which generates the tax in the first place. My point was really that when people say those who don't use the roads are also paying for them, it's actually completely untrue. Ringer

3:33pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Ringer says...


Liverpool's trial suspension of bus lanes is 'a bold but necessary step'

Evidence suggests that bus lanes are not benefiting the city as planned, says the city's mayor


The same is true of every town and city that has installed bus lanes. At least Liverpool is forward thinking and doing the right thing.

http://www.theguardi
an.com/local-governm
ent-network/2013/oct
/22/liverpool-suspen
sion-bus-lanes

And that's a Labour council for crying out loud, so **** knows what our supposed Tory council are playing at.

GET RID OF THE BUS LANES - NOW.
[quote] Liverpool's trial suspension of bus lanes is 'a bold but necessary step' Evidence suggests that bus lanes are not benefiting the city as planned, says the city's mayor [quote] The same is true of every town and city that has installed bus lanes. At least Liverpool is forward thinking and doing the right thing. http://www.theguardi an.com/local-governm ent-network/2013/oct /22/liverpool-suspen sion-bus-lanes And that's a Labour council for crying out loud, so **** knows what our supposed Tory council are playing at. GET RID OF THE BUS LANES - NOW. Ringer

7:17pm Tue 17 Dec 13

faatmaan says...

I have no problem with multiple occupancy of vehicles being allowed use of bus lanes, but what really winds me up is the taxis and private cars using these lanes when they are without passengers or they are carrying one person, on this basis they should be classed as a normal vehicle because they are not stopping extra vehicles on the road but are replacing one car for another, if taxis have to carry two or more passengers to be eligible for bus lane use they might be looked upon as solving the road overcrowding problem rather than increasing it, also you will find a lot of these cabs clogging up on street parking spaces, again causing other vehicles to drive around more. Time for the borough to shows who is boss.
I have no problem with multiple occupancy of vehicles being allowed use of bus lanes, but what really winds me up is the taxis and private cars using these lanes when they are without passengers or they are carrying one person, on this basis they should be classed as a normal vehicle because they are not stopping extra vehicles on the road but are replacing one car for another, if taxis have to carry two or more passengers to be eligible for bus lane use they might be looked upon as solving the road overcrowding problem rather than increasing it, also you will find a lot of these cabs clogging up on street parking spaces, again causing other vehicles to drive around more. Time for the borough to shows who is boss. faatmaan

9:59pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Ellofolks says...

Cameras need to be HD or even 3D. Council also need to train a consultant team to train this new essential service. I just wish I could vote in the council team twice each year. They are top drawer. No stone for value missed
Cameras need to be HD or even 3D. Council also need to train a consultant team to train this new essential service. I just wish I could vote in the council team twice each year. They are top drawer. No stone for value missed Ellofolks

12:33pm Wed 18 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

Ringer wrote:
house on the hill wrote:
Dont think it is quite that simplistic to be fair!!!! And no taxation goes directly back into what it is raised on, it is all one pot used for all areas of Govt spending.
Yes, we know that's what happens, but when a tax is only payable due to direct use of something, you'd kind of expect a decent percentage of it to be used to improve that which generates the tax in the first place.

My point was really that when people say those who don't use the roads are also paying for them, it's actually completely untrue.
As I said before it all goes into one big pot, you cant really specify who pays for what. So does that mean because i don't have kids that my taxes don't go towards their education and healthcare and endless benefits to their parents? Or because i don't drink or smoke i don't contribute to the NHS when they treat illnesses and injuries caused by them or the policing to keep drunken morons in check? Taxation comes in many forms and covers lots of different areas, but I don't think you can actually say that one area specifically covers one thing from one person or a group.
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: Dont think it is quite that simplistic to be fair!!!! And no taxation goes directly back into what it is raised on, it is all one pot used for all areas of Govt spending.[/p][/quote]Yes, we know that's what happens, but when a tax is only payable due to direct use of something, you'd kind of expect a decent percentage of it to be used to improve that which generates the tax in the first place. My point was really that when people say those who don't use the roads are also paying for them, it's actually completely untrue.[/p][/quote]As I said before it all goes into one big pot, you cant really specify who pays for what. So does that mean because i don't have kids that my taxes don't go towards their education and healthcare and endless benefits to their parents? Or because i don't drink or smoke i don't contribute to the NHS when they treat illnesses and injuries caused by them or the policing to keep drunken morons in check? Taxation comes in many forms and covers lots of different areas, but I don't think you can actually say that one area specifically covers one thing from one person or a group. house on the hill

5:22pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Ringer says...

house on the hill wrote:
Ringer wrote:
house on the hill wrote:
Dont think it is quite that simplistic to be fair!!!! And no taxation goes directly back into what it is raised on, it is all one pot used for all areas of Govt spending.
Yes, we know that's what happens, but when a tax is only payable due to direct use of something, you'd kind of expect a decent percentage of it to be used to improve that which generates the tax in the first place.

My point was really that when people say those who don't use the roads are also paying for them, it's actually completely untrue.
As I said before it all goes into one big pot, you cant really specify who pays for what. So does that mean because i don't have kids that my taxes don't go towards their education and healthcare and endless benefits to their parents? Or because i don't drink or smoke i don't contribute to the NHS when they treat illnesses and injuries caused by them or the policing to keep drunken morons in check? Taxation comes in many forms and covers lots of different areas, but I don't think you can actually say that one area specifically covers one thing from one person or a group.
Well done for completely missing the point, again.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: Dont think it is quite that simplistic to be fair!!!! And no taxation goes directly back into what it is raised on, it is all one pot used for all areas of Govt spending.[/p][/quote]Yes, we know that's what happens, but when a tax is only payable due to direct use of something, you'd kind of expect a decent percentage of it to be used to improve that which generates the tax in the first place. My point was really that when people say those who don't use the roads are also paying for them, it's actually completely untrue.[/p][/quote]As I said before it all goes into one big pot, you cant really specify who pays for what. So does that mean because i don't have kids that my taxes don't go towards their education and healthcare and endless benefits to their parents? Or because i don't drink or smoke i don't contribute to the NHS when they treat illnesses and injuries caused by them or the policing to keep drunken morons in check? Taxation comes in many forms and covers lots of different areas, but I don't think you can actually say that one area specifically covers one thing from one person or a group.[/p][/quote]Well done for completely missing the point, again. Ringer

3:05pm Fri 20 Dec 13

nobody says...

cjones03824 wrote:
nobody wrote:
About time, Church Place bus gate is completely ignored by people desperate to get to the Bristol Street car park a few seconds earlier.
Even more dangerous now with all the construction traffic in the area.
Also Penzance Drive bus lane/gate outside the Outlet is ignored by people desperate to go shopping or people who live in the expensive boxes built off Penzance Drive.
Church Place isn't a bus gate any more!! it has not been for around 18 months now. if you notice the signs have been taken down and are no longer displayed!
Yes it is, if you come from the direction of the TA centre it is still "No Entry".
If you come from the village side the "no entry" signs have been removed.
[quote][p][bold]cjones03824[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nobody[/bold] wrote: About time, Church Place bus gate is completely ignored by people desperate to get to the Bristol Street car park a few seconds earlier. Even more dangerous now with all the construction traffic in the area. Also Penzance Drive bus lane/gate outside the Outlet is ignored by people desperate to go shopping or people who live in the expensive boxes built off Penzance Drive.[/p][/quote]Church Place isn't a bus gate any more!! it has not been for around 18 months now. if you notice the signs have been taken down and are no longer displayed![/p][/quote]Yes it is, if you come from the direction of the TA centre it is still "No Entry". If you come from the village side the "no entry" signs have been removed. nobody

3:10pm Fri 20 Dec 13

nobody says...

Ringer wrote:
VotingFloaterUK wrote:
A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
I would support CCTV at the bus gates only if bus lanes are then opened to all traffic in the evenings and week ends.
Bus Lanes are already open to all traffic in the evenings, not that anyone in Swindon seems to realise this.

Enforcement on bus gates seems like a good idea. I think the Council will have a much harder job selling the idea of bus lane cameras to the public. I've heard of people in London being fined when using a bus lane to avoid emergency vehicles and, in one case, even swerving to avoid a pedestrian who ran out in front of them. Both of these had their fines upheld on appeal.

By the way Tyran66, road tax was abolished in 1937. You pay an emissions tax. Roads are funded from general taxation.
Nonsense. The government rakes in around £50bn per year from the various direct motorist taxes.

In return, it spends c.£9bn - in total - on the road network.

Motorists therefore contribute around 25% of the running costs of the benefits system.
Forget about all the other costs then.
Each driver is subsidised to the sum of £700 funded by all taxpayers.
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VotingFloaterUK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: I would support CCTV at the bus gates only if bus lanes are then opened to all traffic in the evenings and week ends.[/p][/quote]Bus Lanes are already open to all traffic in the evenings, not that anyone in Swindon seems to realise this. Enforcement on bus gates seems like a good idea. I think the Council will have a much harder job selling the idea of bus lane cameras to the public. I've heard of people in London being fined when using a bus lane to avoid emergency vehicles and, in one case, even swerving to avoid a pedestrian who ran out in front of them. Both of these had their fines upheld on appeal. By the way Tyran66, road tax was abolished in 1937. You pay an emissions tax. Roads are funded from general taxation.[/p][/quote]Nonsense. The government rakes in around £50bn per year from the various direct motorist taxes. In return, it spends c.£9bn - in total - on the road network. Motorists therefore contribute around 25% of the running costs of the benefits system.[/p][/quote]Forget about all the other costs then. Each driver is subsidised to the sum of £700 funded by all taxpayers. nobody

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