Swindon AdvertiserMore than 160 people to lose jobs in Swindon as packing firm faces shutdown (From Swindon Advertiser)

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More than 160 people to lose jobs in Swindon as packing firm faces shutdown

Swindon Advertiser: TDP packaging Ltd TDP packaging Ltd

MORE than 160 people will lose their jobs under plans to close a pharmaceutical packaging company in Swindon.

TD Packaging, in Stephenson Road, Groundwell Industrial Estate, has proved unprofitable for multinational parent company United Drug, and the decision to close the factory was taken in early May with costs to upgrade the facility deemed too high.

The 45-day consultation period for staff affected by the plans ended last week, and a spokesman for United Drug said there was currently no planned date for closure of the facility, although it is expected to shut down within the next nine to 12 months.

The spokesman said: “The facility has been unprofitable for some time and, despite all our efforts, sales have remained relatively flat.

“Across the industry, regulatory and customer expectations are becoming increasingly demanding. The cost of upgrading the facility to meet these expectations and to bring the facility up to United Drug’s required standard for the future was not considered to be economically viable for the company as a whole.

There are 169 people employed at the facility, with several engineers and part-time staff already departed, according to one worker still at the plant.

The worker said: “Now that the 45 days are up I think they are well within their rights to shut us down the moment customers no longer need to use our facility.

“United Drug is quite a cash-rich company, so it is surprising they took this step.

“They are giving us next to nothing in the way of a redundancy package.”

The insider said a European director of the Irish pharmaceutical corporation arrived at the Swindon factory and announced the decision to the team in early May, when the consultation period officially started.

United Drug took the decision to close the Swindon branch, which packages, labels, designs and dispatches medical products, after a 12-month review of their European packaging businesses.

“We will be offering our employees generous terms, including incentives to continue working at the company during the period up to the closure of the facility,” the spokesman said.

“We are also making ourselves available for consultation with local organisations which may be working to identify alternative employment.”

Comments (37)

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9:53am Wed 26 Jun 13

Ringer says...

The 'GET SWINDON WORKING' campaign is off to a flying start then.
The 'GET SWINDON WORKING' campaign is off to a flying start then. Ringer
  • Score: 0

10:13am Wed 26 Jun 13

A.Baron-Cohen says...

Mr Tomlinson and Buckland, nowhere to be seen not even a photograph of them two smiling, why?.....green shoots of recovery must wait a bit longer I guess.....
Mr Tomlinson and Buckland, nowhere to be seen not even a photograph of them two smiling, why?.....green shoots of recovery must wait a bit longer I guess..... A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 0

10:22am Wed 26 Jun 13

nigelej says...

Here we go again even more redundancies . Yet we are told the government have created over a million jobs .Come on then mr buck land and Tomlinson tell us how many of these jobs are full time . I'm being told most are none contractual ones with no comitment to hours . I'm not saying that is the case so it would be good to have it clarified what these jobs are .
Here we go again even more redundancies . Yet we are told the government have created over a million jobs .Come on then mr buck land and Tomlinson tell us how many of these jobs are full time . I'm being told most are none contractual ones with no comitment to hours . I'm not saying that is the case so it would be good to have it clarified what these jobs are . nigelej
  • Score: 0

10:29am Wed 26 Jun 13

dglaholm says...

Is there a union in the place....If so the payout should be better than the minimum?
Is there a union in the place....If so the payout should be better than the minimum? dglaholm
  • Score: 0

10:32am Wed 26 Jun 13

Ringer says...

@nigelej: to be fair, just because 160 jobs are lose at one company doesn't mean it's not true that 1m new jobs have been created since 2010.

Of course many of the new jobs are part-time, contracted, varied hours etc. That's actually what a lot of people want and need, especially working single mothers.
@nigelej: to be fair, just because 160 jobs are lose at one company doesn't mean it's not true that 1m new jobs have been created since 2010. [p] Of course many of the new jobs are part-time, contracted, varied hours etc. That's actually what a lot of people want and need, especially working single mothers. Ringer
  • Score: 0

10:34am Wed 26 Jun 13

Ringer says...

A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
Mr Tomlinson and Buckland, nowhere to be seen not even a photograph of them two smiling, why?.....green shoots of recovery must wait a bit longer I guess.....
It's rather childish and silly to believe that two MPs can somehow turn an unprofitable private company that's losing money into a successful business.

Also rather ridiculous to think that they'd appear in a photo 'smiling' about this business closing down.
[quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: Mr Tomlinson and Buckland, nowhere to be seen not even a photograph of them two smiling, why?.....green shoots of recovery must wait a bit longer I guess.....[/p][/quote]It's rather childish and silly to believe that two MPs can somehow turn an unprofitable private company that's losing money into a successful business. [p] Also rather ridiculous to think that they'd appear in a photo 'smiling' about this business closing down. Ringer
  • Score: 0

11:40am Wed 26 Jun 13

A.Baron-Cohen says...

Ringer wrote:
A.Baron-Cohen wrote:
Mr Tomlinson and Buckland, nowhere to be seen not even a photograph of them two smiling, why?.....green shoots of recovery must wait a bit longer I guess.....
It's rather childish and silly to believe that two MPs can somehow turn an unprofitable private company that's losing money into a successful business.

Also rather ridiculous to think that they'd appear in a photo 'smiling' about this business closing down.
The issue here is that we have 2 elected representatives, that are just unable/unwilling to fight for their voters, worse .....unwilling to demonstrate their support at a difficult time.
However, they are both very quick to show their faces and take political credit when good things happen..... even though they have had 0 involvement.
Maybe they have not yet realized this is not the Xfactor competition......
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]A.Baron-Cohen[/bold] wrote: Mr Tomlinson and Buckland, nowhere to be seen not even a photograph of them two smiling, why?.....green shoots of recovery must wait a bit longer I guess.....[/p][/quote]It's rather childish and silly to believe that two MPs can somehow turn an unprofitable private company that's losing money into a successful business. [p] Also rather ridiculous to think that they'd appear in a photo 'smiling' about this business closing down.[/p][/quote]The issue here is that we have 2 elected representatives, that are just unable/unwilling to fight for their voters, worse .....unwilling to demonstrate their support at a difficult time. However, they are both very quick to show their faces and take political credit when good things happen..... even though they have had 0 involvement. Maybe they have not yet realized this is not the Xfactor competition...... A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 0

12:07pm Wed 26 Jun 13

Ringer says...

@A.Baron-Cohen: how do you suppose two MPs can suddenly make an unprofitable company into a successful one? Serious, do explain, I'm sure Tomlinson & Buckland would be only too delighted to know about your miracle solution.

As for your other comment, are you for real? Of course politicians will align themselves with positive things and distance themselves from the negative - wouldn't it be a bit weird if they did the opposite?

Your comments appear to be requesting things that nobody can achieve and which no sane person would ever do.

Based on much of your previous posting, this comes as little surprise.
@A.Baron-Cohen: how do you suppose two MPs can suddenly make an unprofitable company into a successful one? Serious, do explain, I'm sure Tomlinson & Buckland would be only too delighted to know about your miracle solution. [p] As for your other comment, are you for real? Of course politicians will align themselves with positive things and distance themselves from the negative - wouldn't it be a bit weird if they did the opposite? [p] Your comments appear to be requesting things that nobody can achieve and which no sane person would ever do. [p] Based on much of your previous posting, this comes as little surprise. Ringer
  • Score: 0

12:20pm Wed 26 Jun 13

A.Baron-Cohen says...

Ringer wrote:
@A.Baron-Cohen: how do you suppose two MPs can suddenly make an unprofitable company into a successful one? Serious, do explain, I'm sure Tomlinson & Buckland would be only too delighted to know about your miracle solution.

As for your other comment, are you for real? Of course politicians will align themselves with positive things and distance themselves from the negative - wouldn't it be a bit weird if they did the opposite?

Your comments appear to be requesting things that nobody can achieve and which no sane person would ever do.

Based on much of your previous posting, this comes as little surprise.
A statement / show of support would not cost much and would certainly show some sympathy for the real people.
However as most Tory like yourself just demonstrated, empathy is not their forte.
So the show must go on, bring on 2015.....
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: @A.Baron-Cohen: how do you suppose two MPs can suddenly make an unprofitable company into a successful one? Serious, do explain, I'm sure Tomlinson & Buckland would be only too delighted to know about your miracle solution. [p] As for your other comment, are you for real? Of course politicians will align themselves with positive things and distance themselves from the negative - wouldn't it be a bit weird if they did the opposite? [p] Your comments appear to be requesting things that nobody can achieve and which no sane person would ever do. [p] Based on much of your previous posting, this comes as little surprise.[/p][/quote]A statement / show of support would not cost much and would certainly show some sympathy for the real people. However as most Tory like yourself just demonstrated, empathy is not their forte. So the show must go on, bring on 2015..... A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 0

1:02pm Wed 26 Jun 13

nigelej says...

Ringer wrote:
@nigelej: to be fair, just because 160 jobs are lose at one company doesn't mean it's not true that 1m new jobs have been created since 2010.

Of course many of the new jobs are part-time, contracted, varied hours etc. That's actually what a lot of people want and need, especially working single mothers.
That's why I'm asking for a like for like on the jobs lost and those claimed to be made .so we would have the facts . Not the fiction we are lead to believe . Infractions Osborne as just said on tv in parliament that for every job lost in the public sector 5have been created in the private sector so on that basis if they were all full time jobs there should be no problems. However if they are only a few hours a week jobs then he isn't being honest his he .
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: @nigelej: to be fair, just because 160 jobs are lose at one company doesn't mean it's not true that 1m new jobs have been created since 2010. [p] Of course many of the new jobs are part-time, contracted, varied hours etc. That's actually what a lot of people want and need, especially working single mothers.[/p][/quote]That's why I'm asking for a like for like on the jobs lost and those claimed to be made .so we would have the facts . Not the fiction we are lead to believe . Infractions Osborne as just said on tv in parliament that for every job lost in the public sector 5have been created in the private sector so on that basis if they were all full time jobs there should be no problems. However if they are only a few hours a week jobs then he isn't being honest his he . nigelej
  • Score: 0

1:28pm Wed 26 Jun 13

Lips1964 says...

dglaholm wrote:
Is there a union in the place....If so the payout should be better than the minimum?
The existence of a union or not would not necessarily make any impact on redundancy payouts, there are minimum legal employment rights to redundancy and a company is not obliged to pay over and above this if it does not wish to do so ... always sad to hear people getting made redundant !
[quote][p][bold]dglaholm[/bold] wrote: Is there a union in the place....If so the payout should be better than the minimum?[/p][/quote]The existence of a union or not would not necessarily make any impact on redundancy payouts, there are minimum legal employment rights to redundancy and a company is not obliged to pay over and above this if it does not wish to do so ... always sad to hear people getting made redundant ! Lips1964
  • Score: 0

1:48pm Wed 26 Jun 13

Ringer says...

nigelej wrote:
Ringer wrote:
@nigelej: to be fair, just because 160 jobs are lose at one company doesn't mean it's not true that 1m new jobs have been created since 2010.

Of course many of the new jobs are part-time, contracted, varied hours etc. That's actually what a lot of people want and need, especially working single mothers.
That's why I'm asking for a like for like on the jobs lost and those claimed to be made .so we would have the facts . Not the fiction we are lead to believe . Infractions Osborne as just said on tv in parliament that for every job lost in the public sector 5have been created in the private sector so on that basis if they were all full time jobs there should be no problems. However if they are only a few hours a week jobs then he isn't being honest his he .
@nigelj: the facts are the facts. Over 1m new jobs have been created in the private sector since 2010. It would be largely impossible to compare all of them against those lost on a like-for-like basis, especially as many of the jobs lost are in the public sector.

However, even using your own example, if 5 private sector jobs have been created for every 1 public sector job lost, even if those private sector jobs were only 2 hours per day it would still, overall, mean the same amount of employment.

And most jobs, even part-time ones, are more than 2 hours per day.

Whether people believe it or not, the independent figures (not government issued) show that there are now more people in work in the UK than ever before. The reason there are still so many unemployed is largely down to the massive numbers of immigrants the UK has sustained over the past 10 to 15 years.
[quote][p][bold]nigelej[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: @nigelej: to be fair, just because 160 jobs are lose at one company doesn't mean it's not true that 1m new jobs have been created since 2010. [p] Of course many of the new jobs are part-time, contracted, varied hours etc. That's actually what a lot of people want and need, especially working single mothers.[/p][/quote]That's why I'm asking for a like for like on the jobs lost and those claimed to be made .so we would have the facts . Not the fiction we are lead to believe . Infractions Osborne as just said on tv in parliament that for every job lost in the public sector 5have been created in the private sector so on that basis if they were all full time jobs there should be no problems. However if they are only a few hours a week jobs then he isn't being honest his he .[/p][/quote]@nigelj: the facts are the facts. Over 1m new jobs have been created in the private sector since 2010. It would be largely impossible to compare all of them against those lost on a like-for-like basis, especially as many of the jobs lost are in the public sector. [p] However, even using your own example, if 5 private sector jobs have been created for every 1 public sector job lost, even if those private sector jobs were only 2 hours per day it would still, overall, mean the same amount of employment. [p] And most jobs, even part-time ones, are more than 2 hours per day. [p] Whether people believe it or not, the independent figures (not government issued) show that there are now more people in work in the UK than ever before. The reason there are still so many unemployed is largely down to the massive numbers of immigrants the UK has sustained over the past 10 to 15 years. Ringer
  • Score: 0

2:26pm Wed 26 Jun 13

A.Baron-Cohen says...

Ringer wrote:
nigelej wrote:
Ringer wrote:
@nigelej: to be fair, just because 160 jobs are lose at one company doesn't mean it's not true that 1m new jobs have been created since 2010.

Of course many of the new jobs are part-time, contracted, varied hours etc. That's actually what a lot of people want and need, especially working single mothers.
That's why I'm asking for a like for like on the jobs lost and those claimed to be made .so we would have the facts . Not the fiction we are lead to believe . Infractions Osborne as just said on tv in parliament that for every job lost in the public sector 5have been created in the private sector so on that basis if they were all full time jobs there should be no problems. However if they are only a few hours a week jobs then he isn't being honest his he .
@nigelj: the facts are the facts. Over 1m new jobs have been created in the private sector since 2010. It would be largely impossible to compare all of them against those lost on a like-for-like basis, especially as many of the jobs lost are in the public sector.

However, even using your own example, if 5 private sector jobs have been created for every 1 public sector job lost, even if those private sector jobs were only 2 hours per day it would still, overall, mean the same amount of employment.

And most jobs, even part-time ones, are more than 2 hours per day.

Whether people believe it or not, the independent figures (not government issued) show that there are now more people in work in the UK than ever before. The reason there are still so many unemployed is largely down to the massive numbers of immigrants the UK has sustained over the past 10 to 15 years.
Blaming unemployment on immigration is just a myth.....
The fact is that companies have to import people from abroad because UK schools and universities do not provide the workers and skills needed for the companies to remain competitive.
I see this everyday and the sad reality is that the new restrictions on immigrants, are actually damaging British businesses to the point that some might simply relocate or close down!
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nigelej[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: @nigelej: to be fair, just because 160 jobs are lose at one company doesn't mean it's not true that 1m new jobs have been created since 2010. [p] Of course many of the new jobs are part-time, contracted, varied hours etc. That's actually what a lot of people want and need, especially working single mothers.[/p][/quote]That's why I'm asking for a like for like on the jobs lost and those claimed to be made .so we would have the facts . Not the fiction we are lead to believe . Infractions Osborne as just said on tv in parliament that for every job lost in the public sector 5have been created in the private sector so on that basis if they were all full time jobs there should be no problems. However if they are only a few hours a week jobs then he isn't being honest his he .[/p][/quote]@nigelj: the facts are the facts. Over 1m new jobs have been created in the private sector since 2010. It would be largely impossible to compare all of them against those lost on a like-for-like basis, especially as many of the jobs lost are in the public sector. [p] However, even using your own example, if 5 private sector jobs have been created for every 1 public sector job lost, even if those private sector jobs were only 2 hours per day it would still, overall, mean the same amount of employment. [p] And most jobs, even part-time ones, are more than 2 hours per day. [p] Whether people believe it or not, the independent figures (not government issued) show that there are now more people in work in the UK than ever before. The reason there are still so many unemployed is largely down to the massive numbers of immigrants the UK has sustained over the past 10 to 15 years.[/p][/quote]Blaming unemployment on immigration is just a myth..... The fact is that companies have to import people from abroad because UK schools and universities do not provide the workers and skills needed for the companies to remain competitive. I see this everyday and the sad reality is that the new restrictions on immigrants, are actually damaging British businesses to the point that some might simply relocate or close down! A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 0

2:55pm Wed 26 Jun 13

Ringer says...


Blaming unemployment on immigration is just a myth.....


It is not a 'myth', at all. It is a matter of published record that 80% of newly created jobs have gone to immigrants over the past 13 years.

That is simply a fact.

Now, if you removed the 3.2 million immigrants that arrived over the last 13 years, you can quickly see that there would not only be virtually zero unemployment, the country would - for once - actually have a need for carefully selected immigration.

Instead, we did it completely the wrong way round.

You are also very, very wrong about the nature of employment most immigrants take. Yes, at the very top of the tree there are a few thousand very highly skilled professionals we do need to import, but the vast majority of jobs taken are unskilled labour that anyone could.

Again, this is simply a fact, as it would be literally impossible for the 800,000 new jobs that immigrants have taken to ALL be very highly skilled, well paid, professional roles.

As for your last point - utter rubbish. There are virtually NO immigration restrictions whatsoever on professional, qualified people who already have job offers in this country.
[quote] Blaming unemployment on immigration is just a myth..... [/quote] [p] It is not a 'myth', at all. It is a matter of published record that 80% of newly created jobs have gone to immigrants over the past 13 years. [p] That is simply a fact. [p] Now, if you removed the 3.2 million immigrants that arrived over the last 13 years, you can quickly see that there would not only be virtually zero unemployment, the country would - for once - actually have a need for carefully selected immigration. [p] Instead, we did it completely the wrong way round. [p] You are also very, very wrong about the nature of employment most immigrants take. Yes, at the very top of the tree there are a few thousand very highly skilled professionals we do need to import, but the vast majority of jobs taken are unskilled labour that anyone could. [p] Again, this is simply a fact, as it would be literally impossible for the 800,000 new jobs that immigrants have taken to ALL be very highly skilled, well paid, professional roles. [p] As for your last point - utter rubbish. There are virtually NO immigration restrictions whatsoever on professional, qualified people who already have job offers in this country. Ringer
  • Score: 0

4:10pm Wed 26 Jun 13

dc the 2nd says...

Ringer wrote:

Blaming unemployment on immigration is just a myth.....


It is not a 'myth', at all. It is a matter of published record that 80% of newly created jobs have gone to immigrants over the past 13 years.

That is simply a fact.

Now, if you removed the 3.2 million immigrants that arrived over the last 13 years, you can quickly see that there would not only be virtually zero unemployment, the country would - for once - actually have a need for carefully selected immigration.

Instead, we did it completely the wrong way round.

You are also very, very wrong about the nature of employment most immigrants take. Yes, at the very top of the tree there are a few thousand very highly skilled professionals we do need to import, but the vast majority of jobs taken are unskilled labour that anyone could.

Again, this is simply a fact, as it would be literally impossible for the 800,000 new jobs that immigrants have taken to ALL be very highly skilled, well paid, professional roles.

As for your last point - utter rubbish. There are virtually NO immigration restrictions whatsoever on professional, qualified people who already have job offers in this country.
could you quote your sources of published record please.
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote] Blaming unemployment on immigration is just a myth..... [/quote] [p] It is not a 'myth', at all. It is a matter of published record that 80% of newly created jobs have gone to immigrants over the past 13 years. [p] That is simply a fact. [p] Now, if you removed the 3.2 million immigrants that arrived over the last 13 years, you can quickly see that there would not only be virtually zero unemployment, the country would - for once - actually have a need for carefully selected immigration. [p] Instead, we did it completely the wrong way round. [p] You are also very, very wrong about the nature of employment most immigrants take. Yes, at the very top of the tree there are a few thousand very highly skilled professionals we do need to import, but the vast majority of jobs taken are unskilled labour that anyone could. [p] Again, this is simply a fact, as it would be literally impossible for the 800,000 new jobs that immigrants have taken to ALL be very highly skilled, well paid, professional roles. [p] As for your last point - utter rubbish. There are virtually NO immigration restrictions whatsoever on professional, qualified people who already have job offers in this country.[/p][/quote]could you quote your sources of published record please. dc the 2nd
  • Score: 0

4:58pm Wed 26 Jun 13

Davidsyrett says...

Ringer

"Now, if you removed the 3.2 million immigrants that arrived over the last 13 years, you can quickly see that there would not only be virtually zero unemployment, the country would - for once - actually have a need for carefully selected immigration."

Actually this is wrong, a lot of the jobs immigrants do, the British unemployed would turn their noses up at and refuse to get out of bed for the money it pays,

If you look at the facts you will find that immigration only has a small effect on the overall unemployment numbers, just remember that many immigrants have set up their own business and employ workers, many of whom are British.

Very uneducated post Ringer.
Ringer "Now, if you removed the 3.2 million immigrants that arrived over the last 13 years, you can quickly see that there would not only be virtually zero unemployment, the country would - for once - actually have a need for carefully selected immigration." Actually this is wrong, a lot of the jobs immigrants do, the British unemployed would turn their noses up at and refuse to get out of bed for the money it pays, If you look at the facts you will find that immigration only has a small effect on the overall unemployment numbers, just remember that many immigrants have set up their own business and employ workers, many of whom are British. Very uneducated post Ringer. Davidsyrett
  • Score: 0

9:20pm Wed 26 Jun 13

Ringer says...


Actually this is wrong, a lot of the jobs immigrants do, the British unemployed would turn their noses up at and refuse to get out of bed for the money it pays,


Er, so, you've just agreed that most new jobs go to immigrants, then?

Just because British people supposedly 'won't' do certain jobs doesn't mean those jobs that are then taken by immigrants aren't taken by immigrants... because, as you've just confirmed, they are.


If you look at the facts you will find that immigration only has a small effect on the overall unemployment numbers


The facts are that 3.2m immigrants arrived here during a 10 year period.

Source: is.gd/2BZstn


In July, Ed Miliband, the son of a refugee, apologised on behalf of his party for allowing net immigration to reach 3.2m under Labour without sufficiently addressing people's concerns about its impact on housing, schools, jobs and benefit entitlements and the pace of change in some communities.


In terms of new jobs created.

Source: is.gd/lETXjZ


The number of private sector workers has jumped by more than one million since the Coalition came to power, official figures revealed yesterday.

The Office for National Statistics said private firms now employ a record 23.9million workers.


In terms of jobs taken by immigrants.

Source: is.gd/0yMXE2

In the first year of the Coalition, 87 per cent of the 400,000 newly created jobs have gone to immigrants — as Britons fail to chase work, according to new official figures uncovered by the Labour MP. Under previous Labour administrations the figure was about 80 per cent.


So, there are c.2.5m unemployed in the UK, yet c.1.2 jobs have been created in the last 3 years and 80% of them have been taken by people coming into the country.

But apparently immigration has no effect on unemployment levels in the UK.

Riiiiight.
[quote] Actually this is wrong, a lot of the jobs immigrants do, the British unemployed would turn their noses up at and refuse to get out of bed for the money it pays, [/quote] [p] Er, so, you've just agreed that most new jobs go to immigrants, then? [p] Just because British people supposedly 'won't' do certain jobs doesn't mean those jobs that are then taken by immigrants aren't taken by immigrants... because, as you've just confirmed, they are. [p] [quote] If you look at the facts you will find that immigration only has a small effect on the overall unemployment numbers [/quote] [p] The facts are that 3.2m immigrants arrived here during a 10 year period. [p] Source: is.gd/2BZstn [p] [quote] In July, Ed Miliband, the son of a refugee, apologised on behalf of his party for allowing net immigration to reach 3.2m under Labour without sufficiently addressing people's concerns about its impact on housing, schools, jobs and benefit entitlements and the pace of change in some communities. [/quote] [p] In terms of new jobs created. [p] Source: is.gd/lETXjZ [p] [quote] The number of private sector workers has jumped by more than one million since the Coalition came to power, official figures revealed yesterday. [p] The Office for National Statistics said private firms now employ a record 23.9million workers. [/quote] [p] In terms of jobs taken by immigrants. [p] Source: is.gd/0yMXE2 [quote] In the first year of the Coalition, 87 per cent of the 400,000 newly created jobs have gone to immigrants — as Britons fail to chase work, according to new official figures uncovered by the Labour MP. Under previous Labour administrations the figure was about 80 per cent. [/quote] [p] So, there are c.2.5m unemployed in the UK, yet c.1.2 jobs have been created in the last 3 years and 80% of them have been taken by people coming into the country. [p] But apparently immigration has no effect on unemployment levels in the UK. [p] Riiiiight. Ringer
  • Score: 0

11:08pm Wed 26 Jun 13

Davidsyrett says...

Ringer, you have no idea,

Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them.

Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ?

How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants?

Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.
Ringer, you have no idea, Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them. Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ? How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants? Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job. Davidsyrett
  • Score: 0

7:30am Thu 27 Jun 13

Always Grumpy says...

Davidsyrett wrote:
Ringer, you have no idea,

Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them.

Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ?

How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants?

Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.
Yet another left wing pro-immigrant with his head buried deeply in the sand, ignoring what is happening to this country.
Syrett, you have no idea.
[quote][p][bold]Davidsyrett[/bold] wrote: Ringer, you have no idea, Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them. Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ? How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants? Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.[/p][/quote]Yet another left wing pro-immigrant with his head buried deeply in the sand, ignoring what is happening to this country. Syrett, you have no idea. Always Grumpy
  • Score: 0

8:37am Thu 27 Jun 13

Ringer says...

Davidsyrett wrote:
Ringer, you have no idea,

Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them.

Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ?

How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants?

Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.
So, now that the hard evidence has been provided, with creditable sources, you start the person attacks. No surprise there, then.

You are missing the point spectacularly. British law states that it is not up to unemployed people in receipt of benefits to decide if they 'want' a given job or not. You are the one perpetuating myths, I'm afraid.


Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ? How many of the immigrants are unemployed?


I've done more than enough running around to supply the sources that prove my point. If you wish to attempt to prove yours, you supply the evidence.

But, before you waste your time, we are not talking about immigrants setting up businesses (which is obviously good news), we are talking about jobs that have been created that have then been taken, at a rate of 80% - 8 out of 10 - by people who have emigrated to this country. However you try and twist it, that means that only 2 out of 10 newly created jobs over the last 10 years have gone to British people.


How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants?


An interesting point, although, of course, we are continually told that immigrants DON'T tend to claim unemployment benefits or rely on the welfare state - so you can't really have it both ways.

My figures don't add up? You are joking?

2.5m unemployed. 3.2m immigrants have arrived in the last 10 years. They have taken at least 960,000 of the 1.2m new jobs created in the past few years. Those are the numbers, much as you may prefer them to be otherwise.

Yes, there will always be unemployment... but it, quite clearly, does not have to be at the levels we're seeing now.

Although, if you're happy to have 2.5m unemployed as being the norm, that's fine. The problem is that certain quarters like to (a) whinge about high levels of unemployment and (b) claim that uncontrolled immigration is not a problem when it comes to employment.

You can't have your cake and eat it.
[quote][p][bold]Davidsyrett[/bold] wrote: Ringer, you have no idea, Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them. Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ? How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants? Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.[/p][/quote]So, now that the hard evidence has been provided, with creditable sources, you start the person attacks. No surprise there, then. [p] You are missing the point spectacularly. British law states that it is not up to unemployed people in receipt of benefits to decide if they 'want' a given job or not. You are the one perpetuating myths, I'm afraid. [p] [quote] Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ? How many of the immigrants are unemployed? [/quote] [p] I've done more than enough running around to supply the sources that prove my point. If you wish to attempt to prove yours, you supply the evidence. [p] But, before you waste your time, we are not talking about immigrants setting up businesses (which is obviously good news), we are talking about jobs that have been created that have then been taken, at a rate of 80% - 8 out of 10 - by people who have emigrated to this country. However you try and twist it, that means that only 2 out of 10 newly created jobs over the last 10 years have gone to British people. [p] [quote] How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants? [/quote] [p] An interesting point, although, of course, we are continually told that immigrants DON'T tend to claim unemployment benefits or rely on the welfare state - so you can't really have it both ways. [p] My figures don't add up? You are joking? [p] 2.5m unemployed. 3.2m immigrants have arrived in the last 10 years. They have taken at least 960,000 of the 1.2m new jobs created in the past few years. Those are the numbers, much as you may prefer them to be otherwise. [p] Yes, there will always be unemployment... but it, quite clearly, does not have to be at the levels we're seeing now. [p] Although, if you're happy to have 2.5m unemployed as being the norm, that's fine. The problem is that certain quarters like to (a) whinge about high levels of unemployment and (b) claim that uncontrolled immigration is not a problem when it comes to employment. [p] You can't have your cake and eat it. Ringer
  • Score: 0

9:00am Thu 27 Jun 13

Davidsyrett says...

Always Grumpy wrote:
Davidsyrett wrote:
Ringer, you have no idea,

Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them.

Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ?

How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants?

Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.
Yet another left wing pro-immigrant with his head buried deeply in the sand, ignoring what is happening to this country.
Syrett, you have no idea.
love it Grumpy!!
[quote][p][bold]Always Grumpy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davidsyrett[/bold] wrote: Ringer, you have no idea, Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them. Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ? How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants? Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.[/p][/quote]Yet another left wing pro-immigrant with his head buried deeply in the sand, ignoring what is happening to this country. Syrett, you have no idea.[/p][/quote]love it Grumpy!! Davidsyrett
  • Score: 0

11:16am Thu 27 Jun 13

Always Grumpy says...

Davidsyrett wrote:
Always Grumpy wrote:
Davidsyrett wrote:
Ringer, you have no idea,

Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them.

Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ?

How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants?

Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.
Yet another left wing pro-immigrant with his head buried deeply in the sand, ignoring what is happening to this country.
Syrett, you have no idea.
love it Grumpy!!
You're more than welcome.
[quote][p][bold]Davidsyrett[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Always Grumpy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davidsyrett[/bold] wrote: Ringer, you have no idea, Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them. Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ? How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants? Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.[/p][/quote]Yet another left wing pro-immigrant with his head buried deeply in the sand, ignoring what is happening to this country. Syrett, you have no idea.[/p][/quote]love it Grumpy!![/p][/quote]You're more than welcome. Always Grumpy
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Thu 27 Jun 13

A.Baron-Cohen says...

Always Grumpy wrote:
Davidsyrett wrote:
Ringer, you have no idea,

Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them.

Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ?

How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants?

Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.
Yet another left wing pro-immigrant with his head buried deeply in the sand, ignoring what is happening to this country.
Syrett, you have no idea.
It is a labour market, Brits and foreigners compete for jobs.
If companies chose to employ foreigners rather than Brits what is the problem with that?
British businesses will remain competitive, gain market share and foreigners will pay their taxes here......
It is like blaming BMW and Audi for killing off the British car makes......
Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact.
[quote][p][bold]Always Grumpy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davidsyrett[/bold] wrote: Ringer, you have no idea, Do you think these jobs are only offered to immigrants? They're open to all, Why do you think the immigrants get the jobs over the British applicants? I'II tell you why, because the British don't want them. Find the figures for how many new business's have been set up by immigrant's? how many people do they employ? How many of the immigrants are unemployed? Has it ever occurred to you that a high percentage of the unemployed are actually immigrants? Sorry, your figures do not add up, there will always be unemployment even if we had no immigration, as some people just don't want a job.[/p][/quote]Yet another left wing pro-immigrant with his head buried deeply in the sand, ignoring what is happening to this country. Syrett, you have no idea.[/p][/quote]It is a labour market, Brits and foreigners compete for jobs. If companies chose to employ foreigners rather than Brits what is the problem with that? British businesses will remain competitive, gain market share and foreigners will pay their taxes here...... It is like blaming BMW and Audi for killing off the British car makes...... Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact. A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 0

12:53pm Thu 27 Jun 13

Ringer says...


Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact.


Just because you are an immigrant does not mean you have to attempt to change the reality of the situation.

The figures are the facts and the figures do not lie.

960,000 new jobs over the last 3 years have been taken by immigrants.

That is 960,000 jobs that cannot now be done by unemployed British people.

In other words, if it had not been for those immigrants, the unemployment rate would be around 1.5million, rather than 2.5million.

It is utterly ridiculous to claim that immigration doesn't affect unemployment when we know, very clearly, that it does - to a massive degree.
[quote] Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact. [/quote] [p] Just because you are an immigrant does not mean you have to attempt to change the reality of the situation. [p] The figures are the facts and the figures do not lie. [p] 960,000 new jobs over the last 3 years have been taken by immigrants. [p] That is 960,000 jobs that cannot now be done by unemployed British people. [p] In other words, if it had not been for those immigrants, the unemployment rate would be around 1.5million, rather than 2.5million. [p] It is utterly ridiculous to claim that immigration doesn't affect unemployment when we know, very clearly, that it does - to a massive degree. Ringer
  • Score: 0

2:10pm Thu 27 Jun 13

Davidsyrett says...

Ringer wrote:

Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact.


Just because you are an immigrant does not mean you have to attempt to change the reality of the situation.

The figures are the facts and the figures do not lie.

960,000 new jobs over the last 3 years have been taken by immigrants.

That is 960,000 jobs that cannot now be done by unemployed British people.

In other words, if it had not been for those immigrants, the unemployment rate would be around 1.5million, rather than 2.5million.

It is utterly ridiculous to claim that immigration doesn't affect unemployment when we know, very clearly, that it does - to a massive degree.
why did the immigrants get employed instead of the British when all these jobs were available then??

Really Ringer, give up while your losing!!
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote] Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact. [/quote] [p] Just because you are an immigrant does not mean you have to attempt to change the reality of the situation. [p] The figures are the facts and the figures do not lie. [p] 960,000 new jobs over the last 3 years have been taken by immigrants. [p] That is 960,000 jobs that cannot now be done by unemployed British people. [p] In other words, if it had not been for those immigrants, the unemployment rate would be around 1.5million, rather than 2.5million. [p] It is utterly ridiculous to claim that immigration doesn't affect unemployment when we know, very clearly, that it does - to a massive degree.[/p][/quote]why did the immigrants get employed instead of the British when all these jobs were available then?? Really Ringer, give up while your losing!! Davidsyrett
  • Score: 0

2:47pm Thu 27 Jun 13

A.Baron-Cohen says...

Ringer wrote:

Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact.


Just because you are an immigrant does not mean you have to attempt to change the reality of the situation.

The figures are the facts and the figures do not lie.

960,000 new jobs over the last 3 years have been taken by immigrants.

That is 960,000 jobs that cannot now be done by unemployed British people.

In other words, if it had not been for those immigrants, the unemployment rate would be around 1.5million, rather than 2.5million.

It is utterly ridiculous to claim that immigration doesn't affect unemployment when we know, very clearly, that it does - to a massive degree.
You are a good example of why so many British people are unemployed and why so many British businesses prefer to employ foreigners.
You have the wrong attitude..... you know it all better despite being clearly in the wrong, you just do not have the necessary "ouverture" or "exposure" to comprehend how the world is changing, you are simply unwilling / unable to learn, sadly this is why so many applicants with similar profile fail to make it on the labour market.
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote] Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact. [/quote] [p] Just because you are an immigrant does not mean you have to attempt to change the reality of the situation. [p] The figures are the facts and the figures do not lie. [p] 960,000 new jobs over the last 3 years have been taken by immigrants. [p] That is 960,000 jobs that cannot now be done by unemployed British people. [p] In other words, if it had not been for those immigrants, the unemployment rate would be around 1.5million, rather than 2.5million. [p] It is utterly ridiculous to claim that immigration doesn't affect unemployment when we know, very clearly, that it does - to a massive degree.[/p][/quote]You are a good example of why so many British people are unemployed and why so many British businesses prefer to employ foreigners. You have the wrong attitude..... you know it all better despite being clearly in the wrong, you just do not have the necessary "ouverture" or "exposure" to comprehend how the world is changing, you are simply unwilling / unable to learn, sadly this is why so many applicants with similar profile fail to make it on the labour market. A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 0

8:21pm Thu 27 Jun 13

Fubar2150 says...

Proof immigration does have an affect on British workers. From a British HR trade journal.
http://goo.gl/Rr5ev
Proof immigration does have an affect on British workers. From a British HR trade journal. http://goo.gl/Rr5ev Fubar2150
  • Score: 0

7:46am Fri 28 Jun 13

Ringer says...

Davidsyrett wrote:
Ringer wrote:

Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact.


Just because you are an immigrant does not mean you have to attempt to change the reality of the situation.

The figures are the facts and the figures do not lie.

960,000 new jobs over the last 3 years have been taken by immigrants.

That is 960,000 jobs that cannot now be done by unemployed British people.

In other words, if it had not been for those immigrants, the unemployment rate would be around 1.5million, rather than 2.5million.

It is utterly ridiculous to claim that immigration doesn't affect unemployment when we know, very clearly, that it does - to a massive degree.
why did the immigrants get employed instead of the British when all these jobs were available then??

Really Ringer, give up while your losing!!
That's an entirely different question, of course.

It makes no difference WHY 80% of new jobs, 960,000 of them, went to immigrants - the fact is that they did go to immigrants rather than those who already live here and who sit around on benefits.

At least you're now accepting the facts.

But to answer your question... immigrants will tend to work for less money, they will tend to work under worse conditions and longer hours. They will strive harder to secure employment because it means child benefit, working tax credits and other benefits that can be sent home and translate in to comparative riches in their countries of origin.

Your implication, throughout this thread, that immigrants will do the jobs British people 'don't want to do' is also probably quite correct in some cases.

The problem being that if there were still 960,00 vacancies open, those lazy British people would have NO CHOICE but to do the jobs. Benefits can be stopped if people actively refuse to do jobs they've been offered (OK, it never happens, but still...)

But those 960,000 jobs are not open, they have been filled by people who have just arrived in the country specifically for economic/work reasons.

What's the point about moaning about high levels of unemployment if all you're going to do when new jobs are created is import people from around the world to fill them?
[quote][p][bold]Davidsyrett[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote] Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact. [/quote] [p] Just because you are an immigrant does not mean you have to attempt to change the reality of the situation. [p] The figures are the facts and the figures do not lie. [p] 960,000 new jobs over the last 3 years have been taken by immigrants. [p] That is 960,000 jobs that cannot now be done by unemployed British people. [p] In other words, if it had not been for those immigrants, the unemployment rate would be around 1.5million, rather than 2.5million. [p] It is utterly ridiculous to claim that immigration doesn't affect unemployment when we know, very clearly, that it does - to a massive degree.[/p][/quote]why did the immigrants get employed instead of the British when all these jobs were available then?? Really Ringer, give up while your losing!![/p][/quote]That's an entirely different question, of course. [p] It makes no difference WHY 80% of new jobs, 960,000 of them, went to immigrants - the fact is that they did go to immigrants rather than those who already live here and who sit around on benefits. [p] At least you're now accepting the facts. [p] But to answer your question... immigrants will tend to work for less money, they will tend to work under worse conditions and longer hours. They will strive harder to secure employment because it means child benefit, working tax credits and other benefits that can be sent home and translate in to comparative riches in their countries of origin. [p] Your implication, throughout this thread, that immigrants will do the jobs British people 'don't want to do' is also probably quite correct in some cases. [p] The problem being that if there were still 960,00 vacancies open, those lazy British people would have NO CHOICE but to do the jobs. Benefits can be stopped if people actively refuse to do jobs they've been offered (OK, it never happens, but still...) [p] But those 960,000 jobs are not open, they have been filled by people who have just arrived in the country specifically for economic/work reasons. [p] What's the point about moaning about high levels of unemployment if all you're going to do when new jobs are created is import people from around the world to fill them? Ringer
  • Score: 0

8:54am Fri 28 Jun 13

A.Baron-Cohen says...

Ringer wrote:
Davidsyrett wrote:
Ringer wrote:

Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact.


Just because you are an immigrant does not mean you have to attempt to change the reality of the situation.

The figures are the facts and the figures do not lie.

960,000 new jobs over the last 3 years have been taken by immigrants.

That is 960,000 jobs that cannot now be done by unemployed British people.

In other words, if it had not been for those immigrants, the unemployment rate would be around 1.5million, rather than 2.5million.

It is utterly ridiculous to claim that immigration doesn't affect unemployment when we know, very clearly, that it does - to a massive degree.
why did the immigrants get employed instead of the British when all these jobs were available then??

Really Ringer, give up while your losing!!
That's an entirely different question, of course.

It makes no difference WHY 80% of new jobs, 960,000 of them, went to immigrants - the fact is that they did go to immigrants rather than those who already live here and who sit around on benefits.

At least you're now accepting the facts.

But to answer your question... immigrants will tend to work for less money, they will tend to work under worse conditions and longer hours. They will strive harder to secure employment because it means child benefit, working tax credits and other benefits that can be sent home and translate in to comparative riches in their countries of origin.

Your implication, throughout this thread, that immigrants will do the jobs British people 'don't want to do' is also probably quite correct in some cases.

The problem being that if there were still 960,00 vacancies open, those lazy British people would have NO CHOICE but to do the jobs. Benefits can be stopped if people actively refuse to do jobs they've been offered (OK, it never happens, but still...)

But those 960,000 jobs are not open, they have been filled by people who have just arrived in the country specifically for economic/work reasons.

What's the point about moaning about high levels of unemployment if all you're going to do when new jobs are created is import people from around the world to fill them?
We "import" manpower from abroad because there is a demand from British businesses for skills and work ethics that cannot be completely fulfilled by British applicants........
To solve the unemployment issue, we need schools, colleges and Universities to wake up to the fact that children must be prepared to face the realities of a very competitive job market.
If you think times are hard now, wait until the 100s of millions of Indians and Chinese graduates start flooding the labour market.
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davidsyrett[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote] Immigration is not the source of unemployment! that is a fact. [/quote] [p] Just because you are an immigrant does not mean you have to attempt to change the reality of the situation. [p] The figures are the facts and the figures do not lie. [p] 960,000 new jobs over the last 3 years have been taken by immigrants. [p] That is 960,000 jobs that cannot now be done by unemployed British people. [p] In other words, if it had not been for those immigrants, the unemployment rate would be around 1.5million, rather than 2.5million. [p] It is utterly ridiculous to claim that immigration doesn't affect unemployment when we know, very clearly, that it does - to a massive degree.[/p][/quote]why did the immigrants get employed instead of the British when all these jobs were available then?? Really Ringer, give up while your losing!![/p][/quote]That's an entirely different question, of course. [p] It makes no difference WHY 80% of new jobs, 960,000 of them, went to immigrants - the fact is that they did go to immigrants rather than those who already live here and who sit around on benefits. [p] At least you're now accepting the facts. [p] But to answer your question... immigrants will tend to work for less money, they will tend to work under worse conditions and longer hours. They will strive harder to secure employment because it means child benefit, working tax credits and other benefits that can be sent home and translate in to comparative riches in their countries of origin. [p] Your implication, throughout this thread, that immigrants will do the jobs British people 'don't want to do' is also probably quite correct in some cases. [p] The problem being that if there were still 960,00 vacancies open, those lazy British people would have NO CHOICE but to do the jobs. Benefits can be stopped if people actively refuse to do jobs they've been offered (OK, it never happens, but still...) [p] But those 960,000 jobs are not open, they have been filled by people who have just arrived in the country specifically for economic/work reasons. [p] What's the point about moaning about high levels of unemployment if all you're going to do when new jobs are created is import people from around the world to fill them?[/p][/quote]We "import" manpower from abroad because there is a demand from British businesses for skills and work ethics that cannot be completely fulfilled by British applicants........ To solve the unemployment issue, we need schools, colleges and Universities to wake up to the fact that children must be prepared to face the realities of a very competitive job market. If you think times are hard now, wait until the 100s of millions of Indians and Chinese graduates start flooding the labour market. A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 0

9:45am Fri 28 Jun 13

Ringer says...

@A.Baron-Cohen: you are delusional if you believe there are 960,000 highly skilled professionals taking jobs here over the last 3 years alone.

The VAST majority of immigrants do very low-paid work, that's mainly why they're given the jobs in the first place. I doubt that even 50,000 of that near 1million new immigrant workers are employed in jobs paying more than the average wage.

Take a trip to Lincolnshire and Norfolk, field after field after field of thousands of immigrants picking fruit and veg. Why? Because they'll do it for less than minimuim wage and it's cheaper than using machinery.

I very much look forward to the hundreds of millions of Indian and Chinese coming here to do the -2.5m jobs we currently have available in the UK. You do realise there are actually only c.25m in employment in the UK?
@A.Baron-Cohen: you are delusional if you believe there are 960,000 highly skilled professionals taking jobs here over the last 3 years alone. [p] The VAST majority of immigrants do very low-paid work, that's mainly why they're given the jobs in the first place. I doubt that even 50,000 of that near 1million new immigrant workers are employed in jobs paying more than the average wage. [p] Take a trip to Lincolnshire and Norfolk, field after field after field of thousands of immigrants picking fruit and veg. Why? Because they'll do it for less than minimuim wage and it's cheaper than using machinery. [p] I very much look forward to the hundreds of millions of Indian and Chinese coming here to do the -2.5m jobs we currently have available in the UK. You do realise there are actually only c.25m in employment in the UK? Ringer
  • Score: 0

11:42am Fri 28 Jun 13

A.Baron-Cohen says...

Ringer wrote:
@A.Baron-Cohen: you are delusional if you believe there are 960,000 highly skilled professionals taking jobs here over the last 3 years alone.

The VAST majority of immigrants do very low-paid work, that's mainly why they're given the jobs in the first place. I doubt that even 50,000 of that near 1million new immigrant workers are employed in jobs paying more than the average wage.

Take a trip to Lincolnshire and Norfolk, field after field after field of thousands of immigrants picking fruit and veg. Why? Because they'll do it for less than minimuim wage and it's cheaper than using machinery.

I very much look forward to the hundreds of millions of Indian and Chinese coming here to do the -2.5m jobs we currently have available in the UK. You do realise there are actually only c.25m in employment in the UK?
With a comment like, I think it is clear that you simply do not know what you are talking about.
Yes there are seasonal workers earning very little,however this is only a small proportion of the huge number of foreigners (EU & non-EU) working, earning well above average salaries and paying taxes in this country.
In IT for example, we simply cannot find the people we need in the UK, in my area, we offer competitive salaries £60k up to 90k for consultant, 90% of our analysts are not from the UK, we have to advertise jobs abroad because we cannot get the applicants we need through UK agencies.
This is not the immigrants fault, this is a problem of education in the UK.
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: @A.Baron-Cohen: you are delusional if you believe there are 960,000 highly skilled professionals taking jobs here over the last 3 years alone. [p] The VAST majority of immigrants do very low-paid work, that's mainly why they're given the jobs in the first place. I doubt that even 50,000 of that near 1million new immigrant workers are employed in jobs paying more than the average wage. [p] Take a trip to Lincolnshire and Norfolk, field after field after field of thousands of immigrants picking fruit and veg. Why? Because they'll do it for less than minimuim wage and it's cheaper than using machinery. [p] I very much look forward to the hundreds of millions of Indian and Chinese coming here to do the -2.5m jobs we currently have available in the UK. You do realise there are actually only c.25m in employment in the UK?[/p][/quote]With a comment like, I think it is clear that you simply do not know what you are talking about. Yes there are seasonal workers earning very little,however this is only a small proportion of the huge number of foreigners (EU & non-EU) working, earning well above average salaries and paying taxes in this country. In IT for example, we simply cannot find the people we need in the UK, in my area, we offer competitive salaries £60k up to 90k for consultant, 90% of our analysts are not from the UK, we have to advertise jobs abroad because we cannot get the applicants we need through UK agencies. This is not the immigrants fault, this is a problem of education in the UK. A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 0

1:44pm Fri 28 Jun 13

Ringer says...


however this is only a small proportion of the huge number of foreigners (EU & non-EU) working, earning well above average salaries and paying taxes in this country.


Source? Link? Evidence? You are simply wrong.

Consider the numbers: 960,000 immigrants newly employed in the last 3 years alone... and you're honestly suggesting most earn above the average wage? And yet, on the other hand, people tell us immigrants only take the low paid jobs nobody else will do.

You can't have it both ways.

Yes, of course there are SOME niche roles that immigrants fill, but how many? Does your company have 20,000 highly skilled jobs to fill, really? Or, as I suspect, is it maybe 4?

You are talking *utter nonsense* when you suggest that 960,000 immigrants have arrived here in 3 years to take jobs paying an average £75kpa.

Of course, you're also ignoring the fact that 50% of children in the UK now move on to university education. They're not all doing media studies... and yet hundreds of thousands of them are unemployed.

Oddly, you have also argued on these pages that immigrants come here to take advantage of our education and universities (which they indeed do, in their hundreds of thousands)... and yet you're also saying our education and universities are of no use.

You're running yourself into rings and contradicting yourself at every turn.

1.2 million new jobs, 3.2 million new immigrants, 2.5 million unemployed. Do the math, Einstein.
[quote] however this is only a small proportion of the huge number of foreigners (EU & non-EU) working, earning well above average salaries and paying taxes in this country. [/quote] [p] Source? Link? Evidence? You are simply wrong. [p] Consider the numbers: 960,000 immigrants newly employed in the last 3 years alone... and you're honestly suggesting most earn above the average wage? And yet, on the other hand, people tell us immigrants only take the low paid jobs nobody else will do. [p] You can't have it both ways. [p] Yes, of course there are SOME niche roles that immigrants fill, but how many? Does your company have 20,000 highly skilled jobs to fill, really? Or, as I suspect, is it maybe 4? [p] You are talking *utter nonsense* when you suggest that 960,000 immigrants have arrived here in 3 years to take jobs paying an average £75kpa. [p] Of course, you're also ignoring the fact that 50% of children in the UK now move on to university education. They're not all doing media studies... and yet hundreds of thousands of them are unemployed. [p] Oddly, you have also argued on these pages that immigrants come here to take advantage of our education and universities (which they indeed do, in their hundreds of thousands)... and yet you're also saying our education and universities are of no use. [p] You're running yourself into rings and contradicting yourself at every turn. [p] 1.2 million new jobs, 3.2 million new immigrants, 2.5 million unemployed. Do the math, Einstein. Ringer
  • Score: 0

3:09pm Fri 28 Jun 13

A.Baron-Cohen says...

Ringer wrote:

however this is only a small proportion of the huge number of foreigners (EU & non-EU) working, earning well above average salaries and paying taxes in this country.


Source? Link? Evidence? You are simply wrong.

Consider the numbers: 960,000 immigrants newly employed in the last 3 years alone... and you're honestly suggesting most earn above the average wage? And yet, on the other hand, people tell us immigrants only take the low paid jobs nobody else will do.

You can't have it both ways.

Yes, of course there are SOME niche roles that immigrants fill, but how many? Does your company have 20,000 highly skilled jobs to fill, really? Or, as I suspect, is it maybe 4?

You are talking *utter nonsense* when you suggest that 960,000 immigrants have arrived here in 3 years to take jobs paying an average £75kpa.

Of course, you're also ignoring the fact that 50% of children in the UK now move on to university education. They're not all doing media studies... and yet hundreds of thousands of them are unemployed.

Oddly, you have also argued on these pages that immigrants come here to take advantage of our education and universities (which they indeed do, in their hundreds of thousands)... and yet you're also saying our education and universities are of no use.

You're running yourself into rings and contradicting yourself at every turn.

1.2 million new jobs, 3.2 million new immigrants, 2.5 million unemployed. Do the math, Einstein.
The unemployed are not the "immigrants", both immigrants and Brits compete openly for the same jobs.
Companies have their own selection criteria, and they offer the job to the best candidate. Why should it be otherwise?
This is not Socialism! or national socialism!
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote] however this is only a small proportion of the huge number of foreigners (EU & non-EU) working, earning well above average salaries and paying taxes in this country. [/quote] [p] Source? Link? Evidence? You are simply wrong. [p] Consider the numbers: 960,000 immigrants newly employed in the last 3 years alone... and you're honestly suggesting most earn above the average wage? And yet, on the other hand, people tell us immigrants only take the low paid jobs nobody else will do. [p] You can't have it both ways. [p] Yes, of course there are SOME niche roles that immigrants fill, but how many? Does your company have 20,000 highly skilled jobs to fill, really? Or, as I suspect, is it maybe 4? [p] You are talking *utter nonsense* when you suggest that 960,000 immigrants have arrived here in 3 years to take jobs paying an average £75kpa. [p] Of course, you're also ignoring the fact that 50% of children in the UK now move on to university education. They're not all doing media studies... and yet hundreds of thousands of them are unemployed. [p] Oddly, you have also argued on these pages that immigrants come here to take advantage of our education and universities (which they indeed do, in their hundreds of thousands)... and yet you're also saying our education and universities are of no use. [p] You're running yourself into rings and contradicting yourself at every turn. [p] 1.2 million new jobs, 3.2 million new immigrants, 2.5 million unemployed. Do the math, Einstein.[/p][/quote]The unemployed are not the "immigrants", both immigrants and Brits compete openly for the same jobs. Companies have their own selection criteria, and they offer the job to the best candidate. Why should it be otherwise? This is not Socialism! or national socialism! A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 0

5:17pm Fri 28 Jun 13

Ringer says...


The unemployed are not the "immigrants", both immigrants and Brits compete openly for the same jobs.


OK, let me try and make this simple for you:

1. There are 1.2m new jobs created.

2. 960,000 of them are taken by immigrants.

3. That means 960,000 unemployed British people could not longer take those jobs.

4. 960,000 people come here to work, 960,000 people who were already here remain unemployed.

What part of that do you not quite understand?
[quote] The unemployed are not the "immigrants", both immigrants and Brits compete openly for the same jobs. [/quote] [p] OK, let me try and make this simple for you: [p] 1. There are 1.2m new jobs created. [p] 2. 960,000 of them are taken by immigrants. [p] 3. That means 960,000 unemployed British people could not longer take those jobs. [p] 4. 960,000 people come here to work, 960,000 people who were already here remain unemployed. [p] What part of that do you not quite understand? Ringer
  • Score: 0

6:01pm Fri 28 Jun 13

Always Grumpy says...

Ringer wrote:

The unemployed are not the "immigrants", both immigrants and Brits compete openly for the same jobs.


OK, let me try and make this simple for you:

1. There are 1.2m new jobs created.

2. 960,000 of them are taken by immigrants.

3. That means 960,000 unemployed British people could not longer take those jobs.

4. 960,000 people come here to work, 960,000 people who were already here remain unemployed.

What part of that do you not quite understand?
"What part of that do you not quite understand?"

I don't think poliprat understands (or wants to understand) any of it.

I've given up trying to argue with poliprat and messy because you can only hit your head against a brick wall for so long, before you end up with a headache.

Both of them are complete idiots with their own agenda, which is just to wind sane, intelligent people up. No-one on this site takes either of them seriously and everyone seems to have nothing but contempt for both of them.

Unlike them I have better things to do with my time.
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote] The unemployed are not the "immigrants", both immigrants and Brits compete openly for the same jobs. [/quote] [p] OK, let me try and make this simple for you: [p] 1. There are 1.2m new jobs created. [p] 2. 960,000 of them are taken by immigrants. [p] 3. That means 960,000 unemployed British people could not longer take those jobs. [p] 4. 960,000 people come here to work, 960,000 people who were already here remain unemployed. [p] What part of that do you not quite understand?[/p][/quote]"What part of that do you not quite understand?" I don't think poliprat understands (or wants to understand) any of it. I've given up trying to argue with poliprat and messy because you can only hit your head against a brick wall for so long, before you end up with a headache. Both of them are complete idiots with their own agenda, which is just to wind sane, intelligent people up. No-one on this site takes either of them seriously and everyone seems to have nothing but contempt for both of them. Unlike them I have better things to do with my time. Always Grumpy
  • Score: 0

9:11pm Fri 28 Jun 13

Always Grumpy says...

Always Grumpy wrote:
Ringer wrote:

The unemployed are not the "immigrants", both immigrants and Brits compete openly for the same jobs.


OK, let me try and make this simple for you:

1. There are 1.2m new jobs created.

2. 960,000 of them are taken by immigrants.

3. That means 960,000 unemployed British people could not longer take those jobs.

4. 960,000 people come here to work, 960,000 people who were already here remain unemployed.

What part of that do you not quite understand?
"What part of that do you not quite understand?"

I don't think poliprat understands (or wants to understand) any of it.

I've given up trying to argue with poliprat and messy because you can only hit your head against a brick wall for so long, before you end up with a headache.

Both of them are complete idiots with their own agenda, which is just to wind sane, intelligent people up. No-one on this site takes either of them seriously and everyone seems to have nothing but contempt for both of them.

Unlike them I have better things to do with my time.
Ooops, should be 'windup'.
[quote][p][bold]Always Grumpy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote] The unemployed are not the "immigrants", both immigrants and Brits compete openly for the same jobs. [/quote] [p] OK, let me try and make this simple for you: [p] 1. There are 1.2m new jobs created. [p] 2. 960,000 of them are taken by immigrants. [p] 3. That means 960,000 unemployed British people could not longer take those jobs. [p] 4. 960,000 people come here to work, 960,000 people who were already here remain unemployed. [p] What part of that do you not quite understand?[/p][/quote]"What part of that do you not quite understand?" I don't think poliprat understands (or wants to understand) any of it. I've given up trying to argue with poliprat and messy because you can only hit your head against a brick wall for so long, before you end up with a headache. Both of them are complete idiots with their own agenda, which is just to wind sane, intelligent people up. No-one on this site takes either of them seriously and everyone seems to have nothing but contempt for both of them. Unlike them I have better things to do with my time.[/p][/quote]Ooops, should be 'windup'. Always Grumpy
  • Score: 0

12:29pm Sat 29 Jun 13

Ringer says...

Always Grumpy wrote:
Ringer wrote:

The unemployed are not the "immigrants", both immigrants and Brits compete openly for the same jobs.


OK, let me try and make this simple for you:

1. There are 1.2m new jobs created.

2. 960,000 of them are taken by immigrants.

3. That means 960,000 unemployed British people could not longer take those jobs.

4. 960,000 people come here to work, 960,000 people who were already here remain unemployed.

What part of that do you not quite understand?
"What part of that do you not quite understand?"

I don't think poliprat understands (or wants to understand) any of it.

I've given up trying to argue with poliprat and messy because you can only hit your head against a brick wall for so long, before you end up with a headache.

Both of them are complete idiots with their own agenda, which is just to wind sane, intelligent people up. No-one on this site takes either of them seriously and everyone seems to have nothing but contempt for both of them.

Unlike them I have better things to do with my time.
A very fair summary.
[quote][p][bold]Always Grumpy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote] The unemployed are not the "immigrants", both immigrants and Brits compete openly for the same jobs. [/quote] [p] OK, let me try and make this simple for you: [p] 1. There are 1.2m new jobs created. [p] 2. 960,000 of them are taken by immigrants. [p] 3. That means 960,000 unemployed British people could not longer take those jobs. [p] 4. 960,000 people come here to work, 960,000 people who were already here remain unemployed. [p] What part of that do you not quite understand?[/p][/quote]"What part of that do you not quite understand?" I don't think poliprat understands (or wants to understand) any of it. I've given up trying to argue with poliprat and messy because you can only hit your head against a brick wall for so long, before you end up with a headache. Both of them are complete idiots with their own agenda, which is just to wind sane, intelligent people up. No-one on this site takes either of them seriously and everyone seems to have nothing but contempt for both of them. Unlike them I have better things to do with my time.[/p][/quote]A very fair summary. Ringer
  • Score: 0

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