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Worshippers' fury over parking tickets (From Swindon Advertiser)
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Worshippers' fury over parking tickets
10:30am Monday 12th January 2009
MUSLIMS are appealing for traffic wardens to spare them parking tickets while they pray for an hour on Fridays.
Members of the mosques in Manchester Road and Broad Street want Swindon Council to turn a blind eye to worshippers who park in residents’ spaces.
In the past, there was an unwritten rule that wardens largely ignored illegally parked cars during their sermons.
But in recent months, traffic wardens have been ticketing without restraint.
Coun Derique Montaut (Lab, Central): “At one stage traffic wardens took a softly softly approach.
“But we are now saying everyone should be treated the same. There should be no privileges.”
Mansoor Khan, secretary of the Thamesdown Islamic Association, said: “The parking situation is atrocious.
“We are getting sick and tired of it. People don’t have time to go to a car park and walk, as they are on their lunch break from work.”
Muhammad Ali, a representative of the Marat Shahjalal mosque in Manchester Road, said spaces are empty during Islamic prayer time, as residents are at work anyway.
“A lot of prayer goers are getting tickets every week,” he said.
“It is causing unnecessary arguments. I don’t think it is too much to ask for us to be allowed to park in empty resident parking spaces for one hour.
“People should be facilitated for religious purposes.”
Since the parking attendants started cracking down about three months ago, Mr Ali describes the mood as disheartened.
“We are just looking for harmony,” he said.
He added that he felt the Muslim community was often blamed for illegal parking outside the Mirchi Cash and Carry in Manchester Road, but he puts it down to shoppers.
Coun Junab Ali (Lab, Central) is trying to find a solution to the problem, which may involve securing spaces in a car park nearby.
But any suggestions would need to be agreed by Broadgreen residents, he added.
“At the end of the day we live in one community and we want better inclusion and cohesion,” he said.
“There is one rule for everybody. The law is for all of us.”
If you have got a view, then please leave your comment below. However, the Swindon Advertiser would caution all posters to be aware of the terms and conditions of the website which states that users must not post material which is defamatory, offensive, or of an obscene or menacing character. We welcome constructive and informed debate, and we will take action against any poster who abuses these terms. The poster will be liable for any legal claim from a third party.
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Your Say YourSwindon
sadgit, swindon says...
10:49am Mon 12 Jan 09
Lets keep it that way.
shylaird, swindon says...
10:52am Mon 12 Jan 09
Futures, Swindon says...
10:54am Mon 12 Jan 09
And as for blaming them for the illegal parking outside the Cash & Carry down manchester Road, that's probably because it is them! There's vans unloading shedloads of Rice otside that shop on a daily basis, and even if it were the Customers who were causing the blockage, surely it's the job of the Cash & Carry Staff to move them along?
MyViewOk, Highworth says...
10:58am Mon 12 Jan 09
Always Grumpy, Swindon says...
11:00am Mon 12 Jan 09
The same laws and rules should apply to them, the same way they apply to us. No way should they be allowed to get away with this.
If they are going to be allowed to park then anyone else done for illegal parking should sue the council under racial discrimination laws!
SaneSwindoner, Liden says...
11:09am Mon 12 Jan 09
As for residents parking, the residents pay for that privelidge and why should people clog up these spaces? Would they want to move into the houses for free too?
Why not travel to their place of worship by foot, bus, taxi?
hmmmm, Stratton says...
11:13am Mon 12 Jan 09
Geoff Reid, West Swindon says...
11:15am Mon 12 Jan 09
Another good example of worshippers travelling into an area by car, then clogging up local roads with badly and illegally parked cars is St Peters Roman Catholic Church in West Swindon.
If worshippers don't live close enough to their chosen place of worship to walk there, and they're not prepared to use public transport but preferring instead to drive there and chance getting a ticket....then it's tough luck. God gave them all freedom of choice, but not immunity from the law.
No one forces anyone to go to church by car, and nothing destroys inter-faith and inter-community harmony quicker than one group saying to the other: "Your laws should not apply to me because of my right to worship"
Shouldn't all new build churches, temples and mosques be in town centres, next to pay and display car parks, or completely out of town in 'Faith Parks'.....
....like retail parks but for the God Squad.
Why oh why, Swindon says...
11:15am Mon 12 Jan 09
It is bad enough when there are football matches on and the fact we have to pay £25 a year for the off chance that we might be able to park in the street we live in.
Itssomewheretowork, Swindon says...
11:17am Mon 12 Jan 09
FunkyPablo, Swindon says...
11:18am Mon 12 Jan 09
I believe that the muslim community have a case for a purpose-built mosque within the town, on the same basis that the Gurdwara was built at Kembrey Park.
dc the 2nd, old town says...
11:29am Mon 12 Jan 09
I hreby request a refund on my parking tickets, for parking on double yellows outside my house (when all residents bays were full), because i was going to church/temple/mosque at the time.
Ta
Bobfm, South Marston says...
11:31am Mon 12 Jan 09
I think these areas have had more than their fair share of help from the Council and HMG.
Desperatedan1, swindon says...
11:34am Mon 12 Jan 09
Mansoor the sec, Swindon says...
11:35am Mon 12 Jan 09
PeeveD, Swindon says...
11:43am Mon 12 Jan 09
hmmmm wrote:And what next? How many more laws do we change to fit in with differing groups?
Well they could change the law and let people park around the area between 12 and 2 on a Friday. I can't see this being a problem if the residential parking areas are freed up form people being at work.
OUR laws are OUR laws!!!!
Abide with them or face the consequences.... simple!
If the council were to bring about the changes you propose do you know how many people would have a right to expect a refund on their fines?
Opinionated Wench, Swindon says...
11:44am Mon 12 Jan 09
ourtone, says...
11:47am Mon 12 Jan 09
Why did they feel that was necessary in a story about Parking Offences!
Personally I think this is discriminatory. Anyway, on with the post.
Solutions
1) Car-sharing
2) Buy one day permits from the council
3) The Mosque could hire a shuttle bus and everyone could park at e.g. the County ground!
If any special concession is made for these guys, then I will consider that I have been discriminated against by the Council!
Big Mac, Old Town says...
12:17pm Mon 12 Jan 09
I am deeply concerned about this admission.
"Coun Derique Montaut (Lab, Central): At one stage traffic wardens took a softly softly approach."
This presumably means that Councillor Montaut was aware that a Council department was neglecting to do its job correctly. Why did it take him so long to correct the problem?
The reality is that parking restrictions are a mess all over the town centre and Old Town area. They have been for years. The Council has promised to remove pointless double and single yellow lines but have failed to do so.
I fail to see why any particular element of the community should receive preferential treatment or be allowed to break the law with impunity.
Home Boy, Swindon says...
12:18pm Mon 12 Jan 09
However, I can't see any reason why resident's zones around the entire town centre couldn't be relaxed at lunch time on week days. Why not allow parking in all resident zones between 12noon - 2pm to encourage people into the already struggling shops in the town centre? I work out of town and it does annoy me having to pay to park if I go in at lunch time when there's empty resident's bays everywhere. Although I wouldn't request a story in the Adver about my plight as a shopper and how unfair it is that I have to pay to park during my lunch break!
john c, swindon says...
12:22pm Mon 12 Jan 09
There is no need to park illegally to get to any location on Manchester road as there are car parks at either end of the road and the road it self is served by more busses than just about any other area of Swindon.
sn5, swindon says...
12:35pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Home Boy, Swindon says...
12:40pm Mon 12 Jan 09
P S Altery, Compton Bassett says...
12:41pm Mon 12 Jan 09
nansview, Swindon says...
12:41pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Big Mac, Old Town says...
1:55pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Reading the article, it would appear that the users of the Mosque are simply experiencing the same resigned deflation we all feel when handed tickets whilst parked outside our own homes or place of work.
Comments made in the article hardly seem to indicate any particular 'fury'.
P S Altery, Compton Bassett says...
1:59pm Mon 12 Jan 09
yeti, swindon says...
2:06pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Home Boy, Swindon says...
2:09pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Khan Saab, says...
2:24pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Anyways, how long is this proposal going to last - the mosque has been there how long? 10 years? Why has it become an issue today? You expect the council to waive parking tickets for the next 10 years? Thamesdown Islamic Association, pull your fingure out and think ahead more than just 2 days.
Popcorn, Swindon says...
2:30pm Mon 12 Jan 09
nuddy2, says...
2:58pm Mon 12 Jan 09
I note that Mohamed Ali of the Manchester Rd Mosque said “spaces are empty during Islamic prayer time, as residents are at work anyway. I don’t think it is too much to ask for us to be allowed to park in empty resident parking spaces for one hour” I have also heard this sort of comment made by people using the community centre in Broad St, which only has a small car park, - that they should be able to park in the empty res. park spaces, and yes it is true there are often empty spaces during the day, but that is the point of a residents parking zone it’s in place for the residents for a very good reason.
I remember only too well the parking situation before res. park was brought in, when every Tom Dick and Harry used to park here to go shopping or football and so did many of the employees at Garrards, it was a joke trying to find a parking space if you were a resident.
The Muslim Community opened both of these Mosques in the full knowledge that they were in a residents parking zone, which is pretty much self-descriptive i.e. the parking is for the residents, so It’s no good moaning that people are being ticketed for illegally parking, when it’s obvious they are.
I do think someone at the council should be answerable to the fact that a blind eye has been turned for years on the actions of a small group of people, who have been openly breaking the law, apparently with the councils blessing.
“We are just looking for harmony” said Mr Ali, well it won’t happen like this. There is one law for all to abide to, if not all you are doing is driving a wedge between people by causing bad feeling.
One final thing, as the parking is so bad, why don’t both Mosques sell up and buy some land big enough for one big Mosque and enough parking for the entire group of worshipper? After all the Sikh community managed to do it.
nuddy2, says...
3:03pm Mon 12 Jan 09
I note that Mohamed Ali of the Manchester Rd Mosque said “spaces are empty during Islamic prayer time, as residents are at work anyway. I don’t think it is too much to ask for us to be allowed to park in empty resident parking spaces for one hour” I have also heard this sort of comment made by people using the community centre in Broad St, which only has a small car park, - that they should be able to park in the empty res. park spaces, and yes it is true there are often empty spaces during the day, but that is the point of a residents parking zone it’s in place for the residents for a very good reason.
I remember only too well the parking situation before res. park was brought in, when every Tom Dick and Harry used to park here to go shopping or football and so did many of the employees at Garrards, it was a joke trying to find a parking space if you were a resident.
The Muslim Community opened both of these Mosques in the full knowledge that they were in a residents parking zone, which is pretty much self-descriptive i.e. the parking is for the residents, so It’s no good moaning that people are being ticketed for illegally parking, when it’s obvious they are.
I do think someone at the council should be answerable to the fact that a blind eye has been turned for years on the actions of a small group of people, who have been openly breaking the law, apparently with the councils blessing.
“We are just looking for harmony” said Mr Ali, well it won’t happen like this. There is one law for all to abide to, if not all you are doing is driving a wedge between people by causing bad feeling.
One final thing, as the parking is so bad, why don’t both Mosques sell up and buy some land big enough for one big Mosque and enough parking for the entire group of worshipper? After all the Sikh community managed to do it.
Big Mac, Old Town says...
3:11pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Central ward's councillors often seem to be treading a very dangerous line in their behaviour and comments, but openly acknowledging the council turning a blind eye to law breakers is something different entirely.
The quote, from Mr Montaut, that:
"But we are now saying everyone should be treated the same. There should be no privileges."
Means he was clearly aware of the issue but has switched his position on the matter.
Can The Adver push for an investigation? Now that the parking is being enforced correctly in the area and people are being ticketed, I don't doubt it'd be too hard to find people more than willing to reveal what Mr Montaut's previous stance on the issue had been.
Donkey, Swindon says...
3:29pm Mon 12 Jan 09
RFM, Swindon says...
3:33pm Mon 12 Jan 09
writer, swindon says...
3:40pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Same rules for everyone... Pay.
PeeveD, Swindon says...
4:20pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Donkey wrote:And if it had been a Tory who said it?
Desperate, very desperate B Mc! Just how trivial can you get?
What a fool you are making yourself look!
Bobfm, South Marston says...
5:07pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Big Mac, Old Town says...
5:11pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Donkey wrote:Not at all, Donkey.
Desperate, very desperate B Mc! Just how trivial can you get?
It would appear that a Councillor has been aware of a Council department 'turning a blind eye' to illegal parking in one specific area by a specific group of motorists.
As PeeveD correctly points out, had the Councillor in question been a Tory councillor 'ignoring' illegal activity on his patch, you'd have been the first screaming blue murder (excuse the pun) about it.
As it is, at least three people in this thread have now questioned Mr Montaut's involvement in this practice.
Do you think it's only Tory councillors that must play by the rules?
Yazoo, Swindon says...
5:12pm Mon 12 Jan 09
romansoldier, swindon says...
6:22pm Mon 12 Jan 09
Dosomethingmutley, Swindon says...
6:27pm Mon 12 Jan 09
The whole area including Manchester Road was built in a time before motor vehicles, hence the provision of adequate parking is always going to be an issue.
I travel Manchester Road regularly and frequently have to squeeze past delivery vehicles or customers cars outside the growing number of cash and carries or other commercial premises that have sprung up over the past few years.
Surely the issue is which bright spark gave planning permission for the Mosques and numerous shops, when clearly there was never going to be the facilities to support all this activity.
In the meantime, I am afraid the worshippers will have to do as the rest of us do, pay to park in the carpark at Carlton Street and walk the 150 yards or so to the Mosque.
Dosomethingmutley, Swindon says...
6:27pm Mon 12 Jan 09
The whole area including Manchester Road was built in a time before motor vehicles, hence the provision of adequate parking is always going to be an issue.
I travel Manchester Road regularly and frequently have to squeeze past delivery vehicles or customers cars outside the growing number of cash and carries or other commercial premises that have sprung up over the past few years.
Surely the issue is which bright spark gave planning permission for the Mosques and numerous shops, when clearly there was never going to be the facilities to support all this activity.
In the meantime, I am afraid the worshippers will have to do as the rest of us do, pay to park in the carpark at Carlton Street and walk the 150 yards or so to the Mosque.
Dick-Turpin, Swindon says...
6:46pm Mon 12 Jan 09
cfa, newcastle says...
7:41pm Mon 12 Jan 09
P S Altery, Compton Bassett says...
7:56pm Mon 12 Jan 09
P S Altery, Compton Bassett says...
8:16pm Mon 12 Jan 09
romansoldier wrote:Take the council to court and sue them for discrimination. They are not legally allowed to selectivley enforce the law based on who they think should be fined and who should not. What the coucil has been doing is against the law. The law applies to is all, it applies to everyone or not at all. Now I really think some questions need to be asked. We already have an admission by a local Councillor that this is going on. May I suggest going to the nationals with this one? I think there is a strong case for legal action here.
I picked my grandson to take him to nursery,got booked for staying 10 minutes, when I spoke to thw warden about all the other cars illigally parked he said that they are praying and its only for an hour .Should I claim my money back from the council
swindonmum, Swindon says...
8:57pm Mon 12 Jan 09
thenoose, Swindon says...
7:43am Tue 13 Jan 09
Bobfm, South Marston says...
8:01am Tue 13 Jan 09
I have said it many times you cannot legislate to avoid prejudice, it just creates more, and this apparent, action inflames the situation.
ourtone, says...
8:48am Tue 13 Jan 09
7:43am Tue 13 Jan 09
Well I think you are all racist. People of other faiths to our own should be able to come and go as they please and that includes parking. We should be far more accommodating and allow them to do what ever they want.
Well said chap!
Speaking as a Jedi, (2001 census) I need to pray for nine hours every weekday and for about three hours every other Saturday. I can only do this in the town centre, and I claim my free parking please.
Bobfm, South Marston says...
10:17am Tue 13 Jan 09
angelagonzalez, London says...
11:13am Tue 13 Jan 09
Racists? Islam is a religion, not a race! Muslims come in all shapes, sizes and colors.
Tonyblairisthedevil, says...
11:43am Tue 13 Jan 09
Cat_cat_cat, Swindon says...
12:06pm Tue 13 Jan 09
No doubt the council will give in to their demands, seeing as nowadays we have to step softly-softly around ethnic minorities for fear of offending them. What a kick in the teeth to the rest of us.
Residents parking - there's a clue in the name!! Residents have to pay for the privilege of parking outside their own homes - if they're lucky!
And how do they know the "residents are at work anyway"? Have they done surveillance on their daily activities? Door-to-door surveys? What if the residents have just popped out to do some shopping?? (well, they'll have a tough time trying to unload it on their return, cos their space will be taken up by someone else!)
Bobfm, South Marston says...
12:11pm Tue 13 Jan 09
ourtone, says...
12:20pm Tue 13 Jan 09
Oh dear the very thing the SA feared has happened, people now being offensive. I guess some people just cannot help themselves.
I disagree. Some people have been helping themselves. In this case they have been helping themselves to free parking.
It looks like various F.O.D. councillors (Friends of Donkey,) let this go as they were too scared to do anything.
It now looks like we have councillors who (a) have noticed and (b) have the guts to do something about it.
Well done all round, better late than never.
Security word "vote-path," loving the irony.
ourtone, says...
12:21pm Tue 13 Jan 09
Oh dear the very thing the SA feared has happened, people now being offensive. I guess some people just cannot help themselves.
I disagree. Some people have been helping themselves. In this case they have been helping themselves to free parking.
It looks like various F.O.D. councillors (Friends of Donkey,) let this go as they were too scared to do anything.
It now looks like we have councillors who (a) have noticed and (b) have the guts to do something about it.
Well done all round, better late than never.
Security word "vote-path," loving the irony.
Home Boy, Swindon says...
12:25pm Tue 13 Jan 09
Tonyblairisthedevil wrote:Intelligent!
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics, you may win but your still a retard.
nuddy2, says...
1:15pm Tue 13 Jan 09
'It now looks like we have councillors who (a) have noticed and (b) have the guts to do something about it.
Well done all round, better late than never.'
Or more likely they have been forced to take notice because residents have had enough.
These parking problems have been ongoing for many years, it's just that the parking department have now taken their responsibilities seriously.
I'm willing to bet it wasn't any of the councillors that wanted to take this forward, too much like hard work and hassle for them!
Tonyblairisthedevil, says...
3:59pm Tue 13 Jan 09
Home Boy wrote:I thought so, seeing as your all arguing about pretty pointless issues.. If us brits are not complaining about something we are not happy...
Tonyblairisthedevil wrote: Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics, you may win but your still a retard.Intelligent!
yeti, swindon says...
4:28pm Tue 13 Jan 09
Tonyblairisthedevil, says...
6:00pm Tue 13 Jan 09
P S Altery, Compton Bassett says...
9:12pm Tue 13 Jan 09
a) They have no right to have done so
b)_It is illegal
They can be e-mailed on
parking@swindon.govt
.uk
If you see a car parked in allocated parking space then you should phone the parking dept on Swindon 574925. If you see a car blocking a pavement, parked on double yellow lines or parked in a service alley then this is still the responsibility of the Police. They do not want to fulfil their legal responsibilities but have a duty to do so. They are contactable on 084554087000. If they either refuse to attend, or do not turn up then you should write to the Chief Constable outlining your concerns. In a similar vein if your access to a private parking space is blocked, or if that space is being used, this is now a criminal offence and you have every right to take civil action against the illegal parker. The fine for clocking private parking spaces is astronomical. You should also write to the national papers about this action by the council.
faatmaan, swindon says...
10:02pm Tue 13 Jan 09
swindonmum, Swindon says...
11:16pm Tue 13 Jan 09
Terence, Swindon says...
8:18am Wed 14 Jan 09
Tonyblairisthedevil wrote:You're still a retard, not 'your'. It's quite humourous how you make a weak attempt at calling others 'retards' (personally I don't care for this term) but in the process only expose your own deficiencies.
Home Boy wrote:I thought so, seeing as your all arguing about pretty pointless issues.. If us brits are not complaining about something we are not happy...
Tonyblairisthedevil wrote: Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics, you may win but your still a retard.Intelligent!
ourtone, says...
9:46am Wed 14 Jan 09
remember this religion is prevalent in non democratic countries, where non conforming views can result in barbaric opposition,
Indeed.
I invite people to consider the chances of going to Saudi Arabia and being allowed to even open a church, never mind asking for permission to commit a criminal offence while using it.
You would have the life expectancy of a snowflake in a blast furnace.
Home Boy, Swindon says...
10:22am Wed 14 Jan 09
This story has nothing to do with the religion, or ethnic origin, of the people involved (even if councillors/the police don't seem to understand that). I'm sure exactly the same situation occurs around many schools in town and around shops, dentists, opticians and doctor's surgeries in older residential areas.
Your sayYour Swindon
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RFM, Swindon says...
10:37am Mon 12 Jan 09
Well you're certainly not going to achieve that by wanting to be excluded from laws that apply to everyone else!
Pathetic!