Crash ‘could have so easily been disaster’ (From Swindon Advertiser)

forcryingoutloud says...
9:56am Tue 30 Nov 10

On the one hand I'm glad no one was hurt but on the other I'm so glad that darned plane won't be continuously circling above my home! We have to put up with it's incessant noise day in and day out through the summer so that we are unable to enjoy our garden. why Oh why do they not take any notice of local residents and noise pollution?

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mowgli says...
12:24pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Couldn't agree more. We have the same problem in Old Walcot and the buzzsaw noise of the clapped out old engine as it banks away is irritaing beyond belief. The Council are not interested and are not fit for purpose on this issue.

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F-G says...
12:55pm Tue 30 Nov 10

It could have crashed into the hospital – it never.

It could have crashed into the flats – it never.

It could have crashed into a school full of disabled kids whilst they were outside playing with little puppies – it never.

How anyone can say it was a disaster waiting to happen is deluded, as someone else has already moaned about that plane probably flies hundreds of times throughout the year and up until this incident hasn’t crashed on anyone or anything.

The pilot should be commended for realising the problem as quick as he did and managing to get the plane down without injuring anyone other than himself. I would imagine the people on board are very grateful to him for that.

At least he’ll be out of action for a while now tho hey, so you lot don’t have to put up with irritation of hearing other people enjoying themselves.

Get well soon Mr Kent.

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Malc,Sticks says...
1:31pm Tue 30 Nov 10

I must say that all the negative comments regarding lack of saftey, pilots ability, all seem to be un substantiated - in the 12 years that Ms Lacy has lived near the airfield how many plane crashes has there been compared to the number of road accidents on the wanborough road, perhaps using her words they were accidents waiting to happen we should ban the use of the car or motorbike.
I too support the reader who commended the pilot on his alertness and skill in landing his stricken plane and passengers safely.
The AAIB will hopefully find the reason for the failure which will be published as an advisory to all pilots. it should not be there job to determine if the aircraft noise and apparent annoyance was a factor in the crash........

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Chrisg46 says...
1:46pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Usual Adver armchair experts.

Well done to the pilot, hopes he is able to return to the air soon.

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skydog99 says...
2:51pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Typical middle class bourgois NIMBYism. Using emotive language to over embellish the incident is the usual tactic of the socially inept. You should be more worried about the burglar ready to steal your pearl necklace or treasured piece of Claris Cliffe rather than an aircraft landing in your perfectly manicured back yard.

To rejoice in the pain and suffering of others is a reflection of your own shortcomings. If the noise is that unacceptable then move, but I would suspect that the majority can not because of the huge negative equity they are in.

I live next door to a parachute centre and thoroughly enjoy the activity that goes on. The many people that have a huge smile and have fulfilled a life's ambition because of it. The money brought into the area is a large factor, and in these times of financial austerity, it is essential for the whole community.

So, instead of wishing people dead, embrace the difference or move on and keep small minded bigotries to yourself.

Worry

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skyc says...
3:11pm Tue 30 Nov 10

There have been many microlight crashes as Redlands, indeed the landowner's own microlight G-REDZ was severly damaged. Skydivers and microlight pilots have suffered injuries but the airfield does not of course publicize these incidents nor the number of times all three emergency services have been called out at huge cost. Was it safe to fly on Sunday? The air accidents investigation branch will determine this, but one has to question the wisdom of the jump instructor and the pilot flying with paying passengers in freezing weather in a plane that was left outside open to the elements overnight. It may be normal for skydiving planes to fly when general aviation does not but then one would expect special measures to be taken to ensure that the plane was safe to fly. The temperature at Redlands on the 27th and 28th of November was so low that it could have caused mechanical failure. Furthermoret he apologists for the skydiving menace at Redlands will always make excuses for the nuisance they cause. I witnessed reckless low flying near trees and electricty cables by a skydiving plane pilot earlier this year and was amazed that the plane did not crash then.

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itsamess says...
3:19pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Agreed a very remarkable landing of a stricken plane. Remember the pilot who landed his stricken plane on the river in the USA. All credit to anyone who avoids a disaster.

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CLR says...
3:44pm Tue 30 Nov 10

This article isn't 'news' and certainly no real journalism went in to producing it. It is merely an article built on hysteria and un educated speculation and opion. I was under the impression a journalist was meant to investigate subject matter properly. For example the strict service history of the aircraft that was followed to thwe leeter. The vast experience of the pilot with thousands of flying hours to his name. The effects of weather on an aircraft. To name just a few. Katie Bond you should be ashamed of a poor gloryfication article. News should be report accuratly and with knowledge of subject matter. None of which is present here.

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Hannah303 says...
5:59pm Tue 30 Nov 10

reality_check wrote:
The residents of Covingham and other areas of East Swindon are heartily sick of these idiots disturbing the peace and flying dangerously over residential areas in their assorted ramshackle aircraft. This numpty of a pilot clearly didn't know what he was doing and will hopefully decide to retire from flying before he causes more serious harm. . This outfit have never taken into account the effect of their antics on the nearby residents and consequently have never had the support of the local community. Hopefully the investigation will expose them for the cowboys they are and close them down for good.

I think you will find that what is disturbing the peace over your area of swindon is the police helecopter, not the skydiving aircraft. If the pilot was a "numpty" he would not have landed the plane and kept all 8 skydivers alive, like he did.

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I Too says...
6:00pm Tue 30 Nov 10

I must agree with CLR.
Poor journalism, doing nothing to help the plight of the residents, or clarify the incident.
Let's gain some perspective here. I know some of the protestors personally, so I am able to empathise with them. They do seem to be ignored.
I am also a pilot. Suggesting they should move, when they lived there before the airfield is not a civilised attitude or correct response. An extremely selfish attitude, which would be different, if those, making such a statement, were the victims.
At the same time, let's keep the protests sensible.
Comments, such as, "the buzzsaw noise of the clapped out old engine" . An aircraft engine has to be completely overhauled after every 2000 hours of use.
Terms such as "ramshackle aircraft". Equally ridiculous. The GA8 is designed to fly in everything from Australian heat to Alaskan mountain conditions. A very capable aircraft
"Was it safe to fly on Sunday?
It may be normal for skydiving planes to fly when general aviation does not".
Not only was it "safe" to fly on Sunday, but many people did. It was near perfect. In those conditions, there is no turbulence at all, and the visibility is fantastic. There was virtually no wind, making navigation incredibly simple. I flew a four seater aircraft, from a full ATC airport, to Dorset, and landed on a grass runway, which is on a hill top 800ft above sea level. it was exteremely cold, the runway was hard to find, as everything was camouflaged in snow. Although the aircraft had a heater, it didn't seem very effective. One of my passengers, a female, aged 30ish, had never flown in a light aircraft, but said afterwards. that not once did she feel in any danger. It was only when I pointed out I would not be using the brakes, after landing, to avoid furrowing the runway, that she realised we had landed on grass. Relatively speaking, there was no danger. If any unfortunate incident had happened I would hate to think that people would immediately use it as ammunition.
Flying low during landing? Is there any other way to land an aircraft?
Contrary to scenes in movies, when an aircraft engine cuts out, the aircraft does not fall from the sky, or enter a spiral dive. Most can glide for miles.
During landing, an aircraft is not only idling its' engine, but also has flaps down, to cause drag / destroy lift, otherwise it could continue flying past the airfield.
Having said that, EFATO, engine fail after take off is one of the worst scenarios, as the aircraft has gained little speed or altitude. Procedure is to lower the nose immediately, to maintain flying speed, and find a clearing within 30 degrees of take off heading. If that procedure is not possible, an airfield can not be licensed. It would appear that the pilot remained calm and carried out the correct procedure. The aircraft is set very level on the ground.
Well done to the pilot. Glad everyone is safe. Hope the experience doesn't put you off aviation.
Regarding the noise. I'm sure there are louder, more intrusive noises, like traffic, tractors, hi-fi, etc, but in defense of the residents, why does the aircraft have to circle, whilst climbing, within the area. the aircraft would climb faster if the wings were kept level. Give the passengers a return trip to Newbury or something.Climb all the way there and back, less constant local noise, and probably a saving on fuel. Doesn't seem much to ask, for better public relations
Was it an aspirated engine? Was the carb heat applied, prior to take off? Job for the reporters and AAIB.
The only other question is, as the temerature drops, 2 or 3 degrees per 1000 ft, plus the wind chill factor of descending, who on earth wants to jump out of an aircraft at this time of year? Brrrr.

I must agree with CLR. Poor journalism, doing nothing to help the plight of the residents, or clarify the incident. Let's gain some perspective here. I know some of the protestors personally, so I am able to empathise with them. They do seem to be ignored. I am also a pilot. Suggesting they should move, when they lived there before the airfield is not a civilised attitude or correct response. An extremely selfish attitude, which would be different, if those, making such a statement, were the victims. At the same time, let's keep the protests sensible. Comments, such as, "the buzzsaw noise of the clapped out old engine" . An aircraft engine has to be completely overhauled after every 2000 hours of use. Terms such as "ramshackle aircraft". Equally ridiculous. The GA8 is designed to fly in everything from Australian heat to Alaskan mountain conditions. A very capable aircraft "Was it safe to fly on Sunday? It may be normal for skydiving planes to fly when general aviation does not". Not only was it "safe" to fly on Sunday, but many people did. It was near perfect. In those conditions, there is no turbulence at all, and the visibility is fantastic. There was virtually no wind, making navigation incredibly simple. I flew a four seater aircraft, from a full ATC airport, to Dorset, and landed on a grass runway, which is on a hill top 800ft above sea level. it was exteremely cold, the runway was hard to find, as everything was camouflaged in snow. Although the aircraft had a heater, it didn't seem very effective. One of my passengers, a female, aged 30ish, had never flown in a light aircraft, but said afterwards. that not once did she feel in any danger. It was only when I pointed out I would not be using the brakes, after landing, to avoid furrowing the runway, that she realised we had landed on grass. Relatively speaking, there was no danger. If any unfortunate incident had happened I would hate to think that people would immediately use it as ammunition. Flying low during landing? Is there any other way to land an aircraft? Contrary to scenes in movies, when an aircraft engine cuts out, the aircraft does not fall from the sky, or enter a spiral dive. Most can glide for miles. During landing, an aircraft is not only idling its' engine, but also has flaps down, to cause drag / destroy lift, otherwise it could continue flying past the airfield. Having said that, EFATO, engine fail after take off is one of the worst scenarios, as the aircraft has gained little speed or altitude. Procedure is to lower the nose immediately, to maintain flying speed, and find a clearing within 30 degrees of take off heading. If that procedure is not possible, an airfield can not be licensed. It would appear that the pilot remained calm and carried out the correct procedure. The aircraft is set very level on the ground. Well done to the pilot. Glad everyone is safe. Hope the experience doesn't put you off aviation. Regarding the noise. I'm sure there are louder, more intrusive noises, like traffic, tractors, hi-fi, etc, but in defense of the residents, why does the aircraft have to circle, whilst climbing, within the area. the aircraft would climb faster if the wings were kept level. Give the passengers a return trip to Newbury or something.Climb all the way there and back, less constant local noise, and probably a saving on fuel. Doesn't seem much to ask, for better public relations Was it an aspirated engine? Was the carb heat applied, prior to take off? Job for the reporters and AAIB. The only other question is, as the temerature drops, 2 or 3 degrees per 1000 ft, plus the wind chill factor of descending, who on earth wants to jump out of an aircraft at this time of year? Brrrr. I Too

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CLR says...
6:32pm Tue 30 Nov 10

I will not get sucked in to an arguement about what people claim happens but the aircraft does not climb to altitude above covingham, wanborough or swindon it climbs out towards marlbourogh.

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I Too says...
6:49pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Well that's a start, but, as the crow flies, and at a few thousand feet, Marlborough isn't very far at all.
Everyone knows that the aircraft circles. I hear it from my house in the town centre. I don't actually mind because I love aircraft and would gladly swap my house for one in Wanborough.
Again, as the aircraft would climb faster, and more economically, in straight lines, why not travel to (for example) Greenham Common and back?

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CLR says...
7:03pm Tue 30 Nov 10

That is not for me to comment on. I'm not in a position to give a qualified answer and will not speculate on why or the way things are done, there is not always a simple answer or black and white way to deal with or conduct the way things are done.

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bellyup says...
7:23pm Tue 30 Nov 10

I witnessed the aircraft the day before the crash, flying low and dangerously over Covingham before making a steep and shaky landing.
The pilot was not being 'brave' or 'skillful', he was simply showing off and showing no concern for whoever he was flying with nor the residents below.

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CLR says...
7:34pm Tue 30 Nov 10

with the greatest respect in the world, how do you know it was dangerous and I doubt from covingham you could see him land on the runway therefore how would you know it was steep or shakey. Also on they way down the pilot is the only person in the aircraft so who would he be 'showing off too'.
Secondly that was a different pilot. Who is a pilot examiner and involved with aircraft full time i can assure you he knows how to fly safely and is a professional who wouldn't jepodise his own or anybody elses safety.

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pallelli@hotmail.com says...
8:09pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Aircraft don't plummet out of the sky when they loose power, they glide in a controlled way - even the big ones, like the one that landed on the river Hudson last year. The safety concerns here are vastly overplayed, and as for the noise, well the nearby A419 & M4 are hardly quite. So next time you whingers are on your way to Malacca, will you spare a though for those who live under the flight path of your Boeing 737? No I don't suppose you will, but hey your right to enjoyment is more important than their's.

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mikemilton says...
8:39pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Well done to the pilot! How many of your readers check their tyres, oil, engine before they set off down the road at silly speeds in poor visibility with no lights? that's a disaster waiting to happen! We pilots are trained to land following engine failure, how many readers know what to do on a slipery surface? but they still go out and race around in conditions like today's. Well done pilot, avoid buildings, don't damage the passengers, good flying!

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TLA says...
10:33pm Tue 30 Nov 10

I'm not an expert but I know someone who did a static line jump at Redlands. I went to watch. That was the only time the plane circled round for a little while, apart from when the air traffic control tower cannot allow then into airspace due to other air traffic. I spoke to the pilot and he discussed flying over homes. The policy is to avoid doing that. I found the staff and experienced skydivers to be motivated, professional, generous and courageous people who care about the sport and participants, Safety was the theme with rigorous checks made on equipment and also on participant knowledge. I wanted to do a jump but checks revealed I would be unfit to jump due to health reasons. The pilot was very informative and came across well educated and passionate about his flying. He has flown thousands of take offs in the plane to take tandem skydivers and experienced skydivers to the height they have to jump from. I am so sorry I cannot participate in this incredible sport which raises thousands and thouasands for charities every year. When I was there I spoke to a young girl who was jumping in memory of her mother who had died of breast cancer, She was raising funds for research into cancer. 'I Too' and 'CLR' seem to have the right spin on this. The residents who feel the noise is unbearable should take the time to get involved in what is happening in their community and then they will view the sound of the plane with a different opinion and frame of mind and train of thought, instead of being negative they will wonder about who is on board, what personal challenge they are facing, how much they are raising and how much they are going to enjoy the thrill of it all. Oh how much I envy them and each time I hear the plane my heart skips a little beat. I wish the pilot a speedy recovery and I wish peace and goodwill to residents of Wanborough. Land owners and facility operators be strong and get ready for another year and some blue skies and endless cries of pure joy. Turn your faces upwards, breath in the fresh pure air and marvel at the skill and strength of mind of those who can take a leap of faith.

I'm not an expert but I know someone who did a static line jump at Redlands. I went to watch. That was the only time the plane circled round for a little while, apart from when the air traffic control tower cannot allow then into airspace due to other air traffic. I spoke to the pilot and he discussed flying over homes. The policy is to avoid doing that. I found the staff and experienced skydivers to be motivated, professional, generous and courageous people who care about the sport and participants, Safety was the theme with rigorous checks made on equipment and also on participant knowledge. I wanted to do a jump but checks revealed I would be unfit to jump due to health reasons. The pilot was very informative and came across well educated and passionate about his flying. He has flown thousands of take offs in the plane to take tandem skydivers and experienced skydivers to the height they have to jump from. I am so sorry I cannot participate in this incredible sport which raises thousands and thouasands for charities every year. When I was there I spoke to a young girl who was jumping in memory of her mother who had died of breast cancer, She was raising funds for research into cancer. 'I Too' and 'CLR' seem to have the right spin on this. The residents who feel the noise is unbearable should take the time to get involved in what is happening in their community and then they will view the sound of the plane with a different opinion and frame of mind and train of thought, instead of being negative they will wonder about who is on board, what personal challenge they are facing, how much they are raising and how much they are going to enjoy the thrill of it all. Oh how much I envy them and each time I hear the plane my heart skips a little beat. I wish the pilot a speedy recovery and I wish peace and goodwill to residents of Wanborough. Land owners and facility operators be strong and get ready for another year and some blue skies and endless cries of pure joy. Turn your faces upwards, breath in the fresh pure air and marvel at the skill and strength of mind of those who can take a leap of faith. TLA

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Domwilko says...
10:54pm Tue 30 Nov 10

I never knew there were so many aviation experts in Swindon, especially in the Redlands area. As a pilot myself, I'm surprised I haven't met any of you!

Anyone that isn't a pilot or understand anything about flying can quite easily mistake a quite normal landing approach for "low and dangerous flying". If you concerns are that founded, then the CAA would have investigate them years ago. Do you people think that you can just setup an airfield and parachuting school and operate outside the law?

Do you realise how much red-tape, licensing, laws and expense is required to setup this sort of operation? And do you think after all that effort and expense that they would fly "ramshackle" aircraft outside the law and ignoring all safety procedures. Believe me, the CAA (or Campaign Against Aviation as us pilots like to call it) do carry out regular checks.

I bet there are more "ramshackle", untaxed, uninsured, no-MOT vehicles driven by unlicenced drivers which drive past your house every day than there are "ramshackle" aircraft flying over your house.

This piece of gutter journalism is just an excuse for all the NIMBYs to appear to be up in arms about a very minor incident, which was handled in a professional manor, probably mainly due the pilot's experience, training and ongoing assessment by flying instructors who check that you are safe to fly.

When all of you armchair experts have completed all seven ground exams, cross-country flight test and general handling flight test and carried out a minimum of 41 hours of flying, just to get your pilots licence; not the mention the hundreds or thousands of hours of flying experience which then follow, then you might have something worthwhile to say. Until then, stick to watching Jeremy Kyle and Eastender as it's pitched at about the right level.

I for one will certainly miss the Airvan circling over my house and watching the jumpers. The Parachuting school was thriving, which is an achievement in itself given the current financial climate. I hope they soon have a replacement aircraft, perhaps a nice Antanov AN2, that will get the NIMBYs attention!

I never knew there were so many aviation experts in Swindon, especially in the Redlands area. As a pilot myself, I'm surprised I haven't met any of you! Anyone that isn't a pilot or understand anything about flying can quite easily mistake a quite normal landing approach for "low and dangerous flying". If you concerns are that founded, then the CAA would have investigate them years ago. Do you people think that you can just setup an airfield and parachuting school and operate outside the law? Do you realise how much red-tape, licensing, laws and expense is required to setup this sort of operation? And do you think after all that effort and expense that they would fly "ramshackle" aircraft outside the law and ignoring all safety procedures. Believe me, the CAA (or Campaign Against Aviation as us pilots like to call it) do carry out regular checks. I bet there are more "ramshackle", untaxed, uninsured, no-MOT vehicles driven by unlicenced drivers which drive past your house every day than there are "ramshackle" aircraft flying over your house. This piece of gutter journalism is just an excuse for all the NIMBYs to appear to be up in arms about a very minor incident, which was handled in a professional manor, probably mainly due the pilot's experience, training and ongoing assessment by flying instructors who check that you are safe to fly. When all of you armchair experts have completed all seven ground exams, cross-country flight test and general handling flight test and carried out a minimum of 41 hours of flying, just to get your pilots licence; not the mention the hundreds or thousands of hours of flying experience which then follow, then you might have something worthwhile to say. Until then, stick to watching Jeremy Kyle and Eastender as it's pitched at about the right level. I for one will certainly miss the Airvan circling over my house and watching the jumpers. The Parachuting school was thriving, which is an achievement in itself given the current financial climate. I hope they soon have a replacement aircraft, perhaps a nice Antanov AN2, that will get the NIMBYs attention! Domwilko

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I Too says...
11:31pm Tue 30 Nov 10

bellyup wrote:
I witnessed the aircraft the day before the crash, flying low and dangerously over Covingham before making a steep and shaky landing.
The pilot was not being 'brave' or 'skillful', he was simply showing off and showing no concern for whoever he was flying with nor the residents below.

What a ridiculous posting. You do the campaigners no justice, by writing stuff like this.
An aircraft will always be "flying low", when it's landing. Do you think they stop in mid air, then float down from 500 ft.?
It's already been explained, that when an aircraft is landing, it's engine is virtually redundant (throttle at idle). If the approach, in your opinion, looked "steep & shaky", the chances are that the aircraft was too high as it neared the runway, so the pilot was sideslipping to lose height.
As others have also stated, aircraft don't just drop out of the sky, if the engine cuts out, especially an aircraft such as this, without the weight of the extra passengers.
I have been asking a logical question, as both a pilot, and friend to some of the residents, as to why the climb out can't be carried out over a larger distance,
And you go and spoil it by writing nonsense.
That doesn't help the residents campaign. Please try to remain informed and sensible

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Chrisg46 says...
11:41pm Tue 30 Nov 10

And the armchair experts are shot down in droves :)

If only this could happen more often!

Again, nicvely done to the pilot, hope you are back on your feet and flying soon.

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Domwilko says...
12:08am Wed 1 Dec 10

@I Too "Was it an aspirated engine? Was the carb heat applied, prior to take off?"

The Airvan GA8 is fitted with a LYCOMING IO-540-K1A5 normally aspirated engine. The engine is fuel injected and so will not suffer from carb icing and therefore would not be fitted with a carb heat control.

I'm sure the AAIB will be able to shed some light on what caused the accident.

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itsamess says...
12:40am Wed 1 Dec 10

Domwilko

Just to clarify "normally aspirated" engines rely on self inducted air as opposed to forced air via turbo/superchargers.

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I Too says...
12:43am Wed 1 Dec 10

Thanks Domwilko.
That's the first bit of informative reporting so far. That also rules out one significant possibility of pilot error.
I didn't notice any major change of performance, after carb heat applications, on Sunday.
I think that, once above the "mini incursion layer, about 1500ft" the air was surprisingly dry. Certainly very calm

We can only wait for the AAIB to do their stuff, which we all know they will

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Domwilko says...
12:55am Wed 1 Dec 10

@itsamess

Your clarification of a normally aspirated engine is correct. With a normally aspirated engine, the fuel delivery mechanism can either be carburetor or fuel injection.

Carburetors are prone to a condition called icing, which is basically when the fuel-air mixed turns to ice, cause fuel starvation in the engine. However the Airvain GA8 involved in the accident was fitted with a fuel injection system and so would not have suffered carb icing.

The 'carb heat' mentioned by 'I Too' is a mecanism which can be operated from the cockpit which directs warm air from the engine manifold to the carburetors to help prevent carb icing.

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snow123 says...
1:04am Wed 1 Dec 10

There used to be another skydiving airvan used at Redlands G-VANA also owned by Peter Marsden - this also crashed shortly after take-off last year in the Czech Republic with 8 skydivers on board. No wonder he was not availalbe to comment to the Adver!

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I Too says...
1:09am Wed 1 Dec 10

Oops. I also meant to write " mini inversion layer", not incursion layer. It's getting late and I'm typing this on a phone keypad :-)

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I Too says...
1:19am Wed 1 Dec 10

Snow123, there is a major difference, between a crash and a forced landing, which is what this was.
I also doubt the Czech Republic are as stringent as the CAA.
Were the passenger and crew injured?

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Domwilko says...
1:23am Wed 1 Dec 10

snow123 wrote:
There used to be another skydiving airvan used at Redlands G-VANA also owned by Peter Marsden - this also crashed shortly after take-off last year in the Czech Republic with 8 skydivers on board. No wonder he was not availalbe to comment to the Adver!

There have been many accidents with loss of life in Ford Escorts, Vauxhall Astras, Citroen Saxos, buses, lorries, trains, boats, shall we stop all of them from being used.

I know let's all sit indoors where it's nice and safe and accidents don't happen; Oh no, wait a minute, statistically, you are more likely to have a serious accident in the home; quick, let's all stop using houses!

Get real!

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Domwilko says...
1:28am Wed 1 Dec 10

I Too wrote:
Oops. I also meant to write " mini inversion layer", not incursion layer. It's getting late and I'm typing this on a phone keypad :-)

I knew what you meant. :-)

From the forecast on Sunday, there was no reason not to be flying. If it hadn't been for the fact that I had a late night on Saturday, then I probably would have been up too.

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Domwilko says...
1:45am Wed 1 Dec 10

snow123 wrote:
There used to be another skydiving airvan used at Redlands G-VANA also owned by Peter Marsden - this also crashed shortly after take-off last year in the Czech Republic with 8 skydivers on board. No wonder he was not availalbe to comment to the Adver!

None of the 8 occupants were injured in that accident either and I believe G-VANA was repaired and is back flying. It was up at Cranfield at the beginning of the year.

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Domwilko says...
2:36am Wed 1 Dec 10

Does the Swindon Advertiser do any research in to who they are interviewing? I say 'interviewing' as I suspect it was Mrs Kay Lacey who contacted them with her "accident waiting to happen" story!

It was appear that Mrs Lacey is quite a busy anti-airfield activist who seems hell-bent on getting Redlands closed. She has been at it from as far back as 2004, with letters to newspapers including The Daily Mail and The Times as well as numerous local papers stretching from Swindon to Salisbury and Chippenham.

Further research reveals that K.Lacey has been using the WhatDoTheyKnow.com website a lot to find out more information about planning permission at Redlands Farm, which I sure should would like to use in her campaign to see the airfield closed.

Come on Swindon Advertiser, what happened to unbiased reporting?

All you have achieved with this article is the publication of more propaganda from Mrs. Lacey, who is hoping to stir up more unfounded hysteria about Redlands airfield in the hopes that it will recruit fellow narrow minded and frankly selfish people.

Perhaps the Swindon Advertisers would like to go and interview some of the many thousands of people who have used the airfield and find out some of the good work it does?

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P48 says...
9:42am Wed 1 Dec 10

Glad to see that the pilot and passengers are safe.

Most happy that the aircraft is out of commission. Nothing worse than having to listen to the excessive loud noise as the aircraft takes off (Which can even be heard through double glazing!). Followed by the constant droning (like an over sized mosquito) circling overhead, until it discharges it load only to have the process repeated again and again.

One of the best ways to spoil the peace and quite on a weekend.

I have reported this issue to Swindon Borough Council, but they are not interested saying it is a Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) issue.

CAA (01293) 567171

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I Too says...
9:57am Wed 1 Dec 10

P48 wrote:
Glad to see that the pilot and passengers are safe.

Most happy that the aircraft is out of commission. Nothing worse than having to listen to the excessive loud noise as the aircraft takes off (Which can even be heard through double glazing!). Followed by the constant droning (like an over sized mosquito) circling overhead, until it discharges it load only to have the process repeated again and again.

One of the best ways to spoil the peace and quite on a weekend.

I have reported this issue to Swindon Borough Council, but they are not interested saying it is a Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) issue.

CAA (01293) 567171

If people stop writing ridiculous statements, about "ropey aircraft", and how they think an aircraft should land, more focus could be spent questioning why it climbs in orbit, in preference to climbing on a cross country flight.

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Horpiterian says...
10:08am Wed 1 Dec 10

Hannah303 wrote:

reality_check wrote: The residents of Covingham and other areas of East Swindon are heartily sick of these idiots disturbing the peace and flying dangerously over residential areas in their assorted ramshackle aircraft. This numpty of a pilot clearly didn't know what he was doing and will hopefully decide to retire from flying before he causes more serious harm. . This outfit have never taken into account the effect of their antics on the nearby residents and consequently have never had the support of the local community. Hopefully the investigation will expose them for the cowboys they are and close them down for good.
I think you will find that what is disturbing the peace over your area of swindon is the police helecopter, not the skydiving aircraft. If the pilot was a "numpty" he would not have landed the plane and kept all 8 skydivers alive, like he did.

Dont be completely daft, the noise is not the police helicopter. I live directly under the flight path. If the weather is fine the skydiving plane takes off or lands over us, multiple times, throughout the weekend. When it takes off over us, often flying directly above the house, it is so loud it drowns out the tractors! The pilot did a great job in bringing the plane down safely, for which I am extremely grateful. I just have to hope that all the pilots are as skilful for the next time something goes wrong - as it inevitably will. And to those who say we should move, why should we - we lived here before they started up, blighting our weekends with the noise. We love our home, we would just like it to be the peaceful place it was before they started.

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P48 says...
10:53am Wed 1 Dec 10

Too, Swindon says...
9:57am Wed 1 Dec 10
P48 wrote:
Glad to see that the pilot and passengers are safe.

Most happy that the aircraft is out of commission. Nothing worse than having to listen to the excessive loud noise as the aircraft takes off (Which can even be heard through double glazing!). Followed by the constant droning (like an over sized mosquito) circling overhead, until it discharges it load only to have the process repeated again and again.

One of the best ways to spoil the peace and quite on a weekend.

I have reported this issue to Swindon Borough Council, but they are not interested saying it is a Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) issue.

CAA (01293) 567171

If people stop writing ridiculous statements, about "ropey aircraft", and how they think an aircraft should land, more focus could be spent questioning why it climbs in orbit, in preference to climbing on a cross country flight.

Nothing mentioned about ropey aircraft, just the noisy aircraft!

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The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...
11:56am Wed 1 Dec 10

Hmmm, nothing like a bit of hyperbole is there?

I was fruit picking next door up at the Lotmead farm earlier this year and while we were there they were taking off and dropping people out of the aeroplane (why anyone would choose to jump out of an aeroplane is beyond me!). Despite being outdoors and right next door I only barely noticed that a plane had taken off - in fact the only reason I registered anything at all is because one of my children got excited about seeing someone jump out of a plane!

The hercules that regularly fly over the town are far more polluting and far noisier, but no-one seems to complain about them, do they?

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adhawkins says...
12:22pm Wed 1 Dec 10

As a local pilot, I thought I'd add my theory. The reason for the aircraft remaining 'local' during the climb-out could be due to them wanting to receive a service from a local radar unit while doing so.

I think Redlands Para talks to Brize, South Cerney's jump ship generally talks to Lyneham. They have to do this to gain clearance into the airway L9 that runs roughly East-West above Swindon, starting at Flight Level 65 (about 6500 feet). Skydivers will generally drop from anything up to 10000 or 12000 feet, which is in Class A restricted airspace in that area.

The jump aircraft will (probably) be receiving a Traffic service from the radar unit, informing them of any traffic that might be a factor both during the climb and (critically) once the Skydivers exit.

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Hannah303 says...
12:26pm Wed 1 Dec 10

Horpiterian wrote:

Hannah303 wrote:
reality_check wrote: The residents of Covingham and other areas of East Swindon are heartily sick of these idiots disturbing the peace and flying dangerously over residential areas in their assorted ramshackle aircraft. This numpty of a pilot clearly didn't know what he was doing and will hopefully decide to retire from flying before he causes more serious harm. . This outfit have never taken into account the effect of their antics on the nearby residents and consequently have never had the support of the local community. Hopefully the investigation will expose them for the cowboys they are and close them down for good.
I think you will find that what is disturbing the peace over your area of swindon is the police helecopter, not the skydiving aircraft. If the pilot was a "numpty" he would not have landed the plane and kept all 8 skydivers alive, like he did.
Dont be completely daft, the noise is not the police helicopter. I live directly under the flight path. If the weather is fine the skydiving plane takes off or lands over us, multiple times, throughout the weekend. When it takes off over us, often flying directly above the house, it is so loud it drowns out the tractors! The pilot did a great job in bringing the plane down safely, for which I am extremely grateful. I just have to hope that all the pilots are as skilful for the next time something goes wrong - as it inevitably will. And to those who say we should move, why should we - we lived here before they started up, blighting our weekends with the noise. We love our home, we would just like it to be the peaceful place it was before they started.

stop moaning about the noise and get on with your life, these skydivers, me being one, raise a huge amount of money for charity and good causes. some people are so misrible.

[quote][p][bold]Horpiterian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hannah303[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reality_check[/bold] wrote: The residents of Covingham and other areas of East Swindon are heartily sick of these idiots disturbing the peace and flying dangerously over residential areas in their assorted ramshackle aircraft. This numpty of a pilot clearly didn't know what he was doing and will hopefully decide to retire from flying before he causes more serious harm. . This outfit have never taken into account the effect of their antics on the nearby residents and consequently have never had the support of the local community. Hopefully the investigation will expose them for the cowboys they are and close them down for good.[/p][/quote]I think you will find that what is disturbing the peace over your area of swindon is the police helecopter, not the skydiving aircraft. If the pilot was a "numpty" he would not have landed the plane and kept all 8 skydivers alive, like he did.[/p][/quote]Dont be completely daft, the noise is not the police helicopter. I live directly under the flight path. If the weather is fine the skydiving plane takes off or lands over us, multiple times, throughout the weekend. When it takes off over us, often flying directly above the house, it is so loud it drowns out the tractors! The pilot did a great job in bringing the plane down safely, for which I am extremely grateful. I just have to hope that all the pilots are as skilful for the next time something goes wrong - as it inevitably will. And to those who say we should move, why should we - we lived here before they started up, blighting our weekends with the noise. We love our home, we would just like it to be the peaceful place it was before they started.[/p][/quote]stop moaning about the noise and get on with your life, these skydivers, me being one, raise a huge amount of money for charity and good causes. some people are so misrible. Hannah303

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P48 says...
12:31pm Wed 1 Dec 10

Well go and jump out of your aircraft some where else - instead of disturbing the weekend peace!

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I Too says...
12:51pm Wed 1 Dec 10

P48, I think you'll find the term "ramshackle aircraft" has been in incorrectly used.
.
Adhawkins. You are correct. I listen to them talking to Lyneham. Still not sure why, as they enter the airway, they can't travel a bit further.
Trouble is there are too many non substantiated opinions, clouding any possibility of resolving issues.
It's pointless blaming a qualified pilot, over planning application discrepancies.

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Domwilko says...
12:53pm Wed 1 Dec 10

P48 wrote:
Well go and jump out of your aircraft some where else - instead of disturbing the weekend peace!

P48 I'm sure we could find all sorts of things that you do annoying to other people, however I'm sure no one come berating you about them.

Live and let live. People have all sorts of weird hobbies and past-times and everyone needs to show some tollerance.

As mentioned by numerous people, the Hercules aircraft out of Lyneham are far noisier than the Airvan and they pass over my house just as often and at all hours of the day. Personally, the noise doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Lyneham has been there for years and has had Hercules flying out of there on a regular basis. If you are really that disturbed by aircraft flying over your house, then why did you move there in the first place? And if you really feel that badly about it, then move! It's that simple. Why should hundreds, even thousands of people stop enjoying their weekend just because a handful of whinging NIMBYs have nothing better to do in their life.

Perhaps you should actually visit the airfield and get involved in the activities there rather than moaning about people enjoying themselves and many of them supporting good charities.

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Mtobin says...
1:19pm Wed 1 Dec 10

Clarification:

The Parachute aircraft will fly away from the airfield to climb. As said climbing in an aircraft is best suited straight and level. They only fly back to airfield to orbit once they have reached or nearly reach there final altitude, plus remember the airfield is under a very active airway L9 and UL9. Do you really think London area controllers want them inside controlled airspace longer than necessary? (of some circumstances the aircraft will be circling above and climbing but that's not very often)

The geek is coming out of me; the pilot of the GA8 will speak to Lyneham usually straight after departure for a ATSOCA usually basic service to be precise, then they will get a clearance from Lyneham on behalf of London to enter the airway.

The aircraft could have suffered one of a number of different faults which every plane could experience, despite being a small GA aircraft to a 744 you get on when you go on holiday.

Anyway drifting there; to cover the 'reckless landing', if you haven't flown from Redlands you won't understand. But us pilots have strict compact circuit which must be followed, this was devised to take in account peoples homes (so we don't over fly them) or the little toddler school down the road and the number of farms.

Due to this small circuit, it may look reckless with the low turn and high angle of bank, but I assure you it isn't. You will know if it was because the aircraft would have spinned on finals ;)

I'll finish on this note, ALL aviation has its risks. And still aviation is the safest things that a person can do statistically. It is always over cooked by the media....

If you don't believe the airfield is safe nor think the owners don't think about the negative aspect of their operation. Then ask them for a visit. I'm sure they will be more than willing to demonstrate they take all incidents seriously.

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P48 says...
2:06pm Wed 1 Dec 10

Domwilko of Eldene:

Hercules aircraft pass over our area in Liden, they don’t constantly take off and circle over us unlike the Redlands air force. I have no problem with the Hercules and other aircraft flying in and out of Lyneham. (Which is academic as Lyneham is due to close in two years).

I don’t wish to move house, nor should I, as the noise nuisance was not an issue when I first moved into the area some twelve years ago. The reason I moved into this area – I was based at RAF Lyneham.

Why doesn’t Readland operate quieter aircraft in the first place?

I have no wish to jump out of a perfectly service able aircraft, I have had enough experiences during my time in the services.

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saymybit says...
2:49pm Wed 1 Dec 10

what about concorde, I miss that beautiful aircraft flying over my house, yes it was noisy, but so are the hercules, so what, it lasts a few minutes.... get over it, Ican think of worse things, like those blooming quad and mini bikes racing up and down the street.
well done to the pilot

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itsamess says...
2:52pm Wed 1 Dec 10

What stands out from this article is that folk put up baseless arguments to thwart others pleasures and hobbies.
How often we hear of folk complaining of noise and dangers--like rail lines close to homes--road noise from motorways etc. Then buy property close to noise and complain.

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I Too says...
5:05pm Wed 1 Dec 10

To be fair to the residents of Wanborough, most of them probably lived there long before the airfiels existed. It is nonsense to suggest that they should move if they don't like it.
On that basis, you imply that anyone can be driven from there homes, to suit selfish individuals.
the majority of pilots are not selfish. Most of them have made sacrifices just to get their licenses.
Where this debate falls flat is protestors making uninformed opinions, and aviation fans stating "like it or leave your long established home.
The obvious correct course to take would be for the airfield to pull out all the stops to see if public relations can be improved. it is incorrect to say that the aircraft only orbits, when it has gained the required flight level.
I hear it from my home, in the town centre.The airway, in that area begins at 6500ft, so there's another 3000 to 6000ft of orbital climbing to be done locally? Or can they get permission to return at high altitude within the airway. Bearing in mid the airway is basically sloping down to Heathrow.
Failing this, a north westerly heading, towards Cheltenham probably offers a slightly better combination of higher airway and open airspace. Has to be worth investigating.
Having said that, if people want to make silly claims, that wobbly aircraft with L plates just missed their car, or knocked their cat off the fence, nobody will resolve anything.

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paul2010 says...
5:20pm Wed 1 Dec 10

If I had an airfield next to me I'd be like, "that's absolutely awesome!" and I'd be wanting to make full use of it too, learning to fly (or skydive) and hiring out a plane after getting my flying licence to fly anywhere I want to.

It would be great for rich Londoners to commute into work!

And the fact that skydiving takes place there is incredible, there must be so few places in the UK that allow you to partake in such an incredible sport, I had read skydivers in this country aren't people with death wishes on their hands but a large proportion are intelligent university educated people with very well paid jobs who see the sport as a calculated risk.

It's a real shame that some of the local residents don't embrace the arrival of the airfield and prefer to distance themselves from it. Having a small airfield nearby should be cherished and not regarded as a nuisance. Objectors should make use of the situation as it is, otherwise you'll only just make your lives miserable if you are always being negative towards it.

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adhawkins says...
5:42pm Wed 1 Dec 10

I Too wrote:
To be fair to the residents of Wanborough, most of them probably lived there long before the airfiels existed. It is nonsense to suggest that they should move if they don't like it.
On that basis, you imply that anyone can be driven from there homes, to suit selfish individuals.
the majority of pilots are not selfish. Most of them have made sacrifices just to get their licenses.
Where this debate falls flat is protestors making uninformed opinions, and aviation fans stating "like it or leave your long established home.
The obvious correct course to take would be for the airfield to pull out all the stops to see if public relations can be improved. it is incorrect to say that the aircraft only orbits, when it has gained the required flight level.
I hear it from my home, in the town centre.The airway, in that area begins at 6500ft, so there's another 3000 to 6000ft of orbital climbing to be done locally? Or can they get permission to return at high altitude within the airway. Bearing in mid the airway is basically sloping down to Heathrow.
Failing this, a north westerly heading, towards Cheltenham probably offers a slightly better combination of higher airway and open airspace. Has to be worth investigating.
Having said that, if people want to make silly claims, that wobbly aircraft with L plates just missed their car, or knocked their cat off the fence, nobody will resolve anything.

I doubt the controllers of the airway want the jump ship in there any longer than necessary.

As for heading North West, that is far from open airspace. North West from Redlands is Fairford, Kemble, Aston Down and South Cerney.

I'm sure there could be a more 'friendly' climb profile they could use. However the odd time I'm over that side of town, we only hear the jump plane as it's actually taking off. The rest of the time the noise is barely noticeable.

Andy

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I Too says...
6:21pm Wed 1 Dec 10

Hmm, Brize are quite accomodating, and there's a strip of Alpha 34 at 18,500ft.
I expect other avenues have all been tried, but if this is true, it throws into question how Redlands was allowed to become a parachute site in the first place.
The Brize radio reception is also much clearer than Lyneham's.
It would be nice to hear what alternatives have been considered.
The offer is open though, if anyone hates living in Wanborough, due to aircraft, I'd gladly swap my house with theirs.

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swindonslicker says...
10:02pm Wed 1 Dec 10

I'm sad this plane has had an accident. I am a plane enthusiast, also in the RAF. I live in Eldene and during summer I happily watched this plane drop skydivers above my garden. It was thrilling to watch.

The plane did make some steep banks and descents but I guess that's to avoid the skydivers. I hope they find a replacement aircraft asap. Glad everyone is ok.

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Hannah303 says...
12:58am Thu 2 Dec 10

P48 wrote:
Well go and jump out of your aircraft some where else - instead of disturbing the weekend peace!

how misrible can you get! are you going to complain about the snowfall too? could be very dangerous going out in these conditions...

why do you have the right to tell me to go somewere else and jump out of a plane for charity?

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P48 says...
10:00am Thu 2 Dec 10

Hannah303 wrote:

P48 wrote:
Well go and jump out of your aircraft some where else - instead of disturbing the weekend peace!
how misrible can you get! are you going to complain about the snowfall too? could be very dangerous going out in these conditions...

why do you have the right to tell me to go somewere else and jump out of a plane for charity?

because your noisy aircraft is disturbing the peace - simples!!!

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Domwilko says...
10:53am Thu 2 Dec 10

P48 wrote:

Hannah303 wrote:

P48 wrote:
Well go and jump out of your aircraft some where else - instead of disturbing the weekend peace!
how misrible can you get! are you going to complain about the snowfall too? could be very dangerous going out in these conditions...

why do you have the right to tell me to go somewere else and jump out of a plane for charity?
because your noisy aircraft is disturbing the peace - simples!!!

In your eyes P48, the aircraft is disturbing your peace. However, there are many other people who appear unperturbed by the aircraft. In fact, there are equally, if not more people who actually enjoy the aircraft.

You appear to be a very selfish individual who thinks they are the only one that matters.

I only hope you never have to rely on any of the charities which these people obtain sponsorship for by doing parachute jumps.

I'd love to say "No, you're not entitled to anything as you didn't like the noise of an aircraft!".

It's a shame society has become the way it has due to selfish individuals like you and Mrs Lacey.

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P48 says...
11:28am Thu 2 Dec 10

Hannah303 wrote:

P48 wrote:
Well go and jump out of your aircraft some where else - instead of disturbing the weekend peace!
how misrible can you get! are you going to complain about the snowfall too? could be very dangerous going out in these conditions...

why do you have the right to tell me to go somewere else and jump out of a plane for charity?

Well in view of your previous sarcasm, let me know when you are doing your next charity parachute jump and I will sponsor – no strings attached!

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Hannah303 says...
6:13pm Thu 2 Dec 10

P48 wrote:

Hannah303 wrote:

P48 wrote:
Well go and jump out of your aircraft some where else - instead of disturbing the weekend peace!
how misrible can you get! are you going to complain about the snowfall too? could be very dangerous going out in these conditions...

why do you have the right to tell me to go somewere else and jump out of a plane for charity?
Well in view of your previous sarcasm, let me know when you are doing your next charity parachute jump and I will sponsor – no strings attached!

thats gotta be the funnist thing iv heard in ages! my sides are splitting! hahaha!!

Im going to make sure i do a few more jumps now next year, maybe do an AFF course at the airfield so i can continue to contribute to your noise pollution and you can continue to be very misrible :)have a good one!

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I Too says...
7:39pm Thu 2 Dec 10

Oh well, that's the end of the diplomatic debating then.
Problems, as they were, for both sides.
As we're back down to this level, "you all smell of wee"

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