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Schools prepare for strike action
12:02pm Monday 11th February 2008
Comments (64)
By Avantika Bhargava »
A THOUSAND teachers could walk out of the town's schools if a proposed strike gets the go ahead.
The National Union of Teachers (NUT) will ballot members to strike against the continued cutting of teachers' living standards.
And teachers in Swindon are getting the worst deal, according to union leaders.
NUT members in all of Swindon's primary and secondary schools will be balloted at the end of the month about a one-day strike on April 24.
The last time teachers in the town went ahead with major strike action was 22 years ago.
Andy Woolley, the NUT's south west regional secretary, said: "This is the third year running that the pay rise for teachers has been below inflation and this amount is likely to be the same for the next two years.
"Swindon is the worst hit in the south west region because of the high cost of living and so young teachers are constantly finding it difficult to get onto the property ladder."
Peter Smith, the NUT's Swindon representative, feels teachers earn less than the average graduate after leaving university.
He said: "They spend four years at university with no pay, and also have a building student debt and when they start they earn just over £20,000 - that's about £3,000 less than your average graduate. This gap widens over the next two years and within five years of joining the profession.
"Fifty per cent of young teachers leave because of heavy workload and pay conditions.
"The Government had promised us that if inflation continued to rise they would review our pay, but they have gone back on their word."
According to figures from the NUT, junior doctors who earn a basic salary with a supplement would earn £32,087 with the amount increasing to over £39,000.
Police officers also earn a higher wage than teachers and are paid during training and don't need to be graduates.
Your Say YourSwindon
MFM, Wiltshire says...
12:36pm Mon 11 Feb 08
"young teachers are constantly finding it difficult to get onto the property ladder."
My heart bleeds - imagine going to uni and coming out with an MSc to still not be able to get on the propery ladder - welcome to England. I suggest they claim income support and sit on their rumps all day - they will get given a house then to.
My heart bleeds - imagine going to uni and coming out with an MSc to still not be able to get on the propery ladder - welcome to England. I suggest they claim income support and sit on their rumps all day - they will get given a house then to.
john c, swindon says...
12:41pm Mon 11 Feb 08
As for
"young teachers are constantly finding it difficult to get onto the property ladder."
If they had spent more of their spare time whilst at uni working and less of the money partying then they would have savings instead of student debt.
That would make things easier for them.
"young teachers are constantly finding it difficult to get onto the property ladder."
If they had spent more of their spare time whilst at uni working and less of the money partying then they would have savings instead of student debt.
That would make things easier for them.
Oxford, Toothill says...
12:53pm Mon 11 Feb 08
There was a time that I would have probably agreed with John C about teachers, however, there have been attacks on their living conditions (and everyone elses including soldiers) for too long now, and if you take into the bargain how ill disciplined the parents and the children are, then you have to consider that a teacher has a fairly difficult job now. If you also take into consideration that the government has lied to the teachers about their living conditions then I would say that they have a valid point to defend their living and working conditions.
It's the same with any worker, if you don't give them the right tools for the job, or treat them with decency and respect, then you're not going to get an adequate job done and in the case of soldiers and alike, you could end up with fatal consequences.
It's the same with any worker, if you don't give them the right tools for the job, or treat them with decency and respect, then you're not going to get an adequate job done and in the case of soldiers and alike, you could end up with fatal consequences.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
1:03pm Mon 11 Feb 08
john c wrote:Erm...not really that well paid.
I say to the teachers out there the same as I do to the Police. You are Already Well Paid. £20,000 a year for a NQT compare that to £15,667 as a newly trained army private serving in Iraq. I suppose you think a class load of kids with attitude are harder work than terrorist with bombs.
Considering they're teaching said army private, the fact that they're on £4,000 less than a graduate engineer for doing a rather vital job for this country seems a bit of a slap in the face.
Licnep, Swindon/Chester says...
1:03pm Mon 11 Feb 08
I don't think you will find in the next few years any student graduating from Uni with 'savings' left.
As a student I will end up in about £18,000 debt after uni and I don't go out 'partying' as suggested by john and look after the little money I have well. Our accomodation is over £3,000 a year and now with tution fees of £3,070 a year I doubt anyone will have any money left.
I have many friends who are training to be teachers and they have barely any time at all as they basically do 9-5 lectures each day and have teaching practice too plus any extra work such as essays/practicals etc so getting a job is outside the question!
As a student I will end up in about £18,000 debt after uni and I don't go out 'partying' as suggested by john and look after the little money I have well. Our accomodation is over £3,000 a year and now with tution fees of £3,070 a year I doubt anyone will have any money left.
I have many friends who are training to be teachers and they have barely any time at all as they basically do 9-5 lectures each day and have teaching practice too plus any extra work such as essays/practicals etc so getting a job is outside the question!
john c, swindon says...
1:20pm Mon 11 Feb 08
The finances of students must have got a lot worse since my sister was at uni in the 80's back then there was always a crowd in the student union bar and most students did find time for a part time job even if it was only at Mcd's during the term and/or the local supermarket during the long holiday's.
As for not being able to get on the property ladder they must be fussy as part rent part buy 2 bed flats start from £52,000 not too hard on £20,000pa.
As for not being able to get on the property ladder they must be fussy as part rent part buy 2 bed flats start from £52,000 not too hard on £20,000pa.
angry monkey, Swindon says...
1:24pm Mon 11 Feb 08
-In my experience most teachers that taught me were rubbish.
-they get massive holidays
- most young people struggle to get on the property ladder these days. teachers are no worse off than anyone else.
- my (and most other peoples) pay rises in the private sector are less than inflation. Tough.
-they get massive holidays
- most young people struggle to get on the property ladder these days. teachers are no worse off than anyone else.
- my (and most other peoples) pay rises in the private sector are less than inflation. Tough.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
1:33pm Mon 11 Feb 08
john c wrote:As a trained teacher who graduated in 2006 I resent that comment john c I worked my **** off for 3yrs and still came out with shed loads of debt and no savings.
As for "young teachers are constantly finding it difficult to get onto the property ladder." If they had spent more of their spare time whilst at uni working and less of the money partying then they would have savings instead of student debt. That would make things easier for them.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
1:37pm Mon 11 Feb 08
angry monkey wrote:Angry monkey, teachers dont get massive holidays all in all they get a few weeks over the summer as the half terms are used for planning and marking and reports, teaching is less about the children and more to do with the paperwork which is why I stopped doing it, I stopped enjoying it.
-In my experience most teachers that taught me were rubbish. -they get massive holidays - most young people struggle to get on the property ladder these days. teachers are no worse off than anyone else. - my (and most other peoples) pay rises in the private sector are less than inflation. Tough.
most students did find time for a part time job even if it was only at Mcd's during the term and/or the local supermarket during the long holiday's.
I had a part time job and nearly killed myself teaching practice 7-4 on nights I worked 5-10 then home to do marking and reports I was lucky if I got any sleep at all. Not all students only have 3 lectures a week that last an hr. I used to be in all day every day 9-5 sometimes later.
john c, swindon says...
1:53pm Mon 11 Feb 08
emmylou83,
If the cap does not fit do not wear it.
Imagine you had not been such a hard worker but more of a party animal just think of the level of debt you would have had when of left uni.
Those are the people my comment was aimed at.
As for the long hours when ~~I did my first cruise as an engineering cadet we were lucky to get the second dog watch off (4 hours sleep on a good day) so do not think that trainee teachers are the only ones to go short on sleep, just ask any new mum about sleep deprivation.
Anyway what are you doing now instead of teaching? How do the pay, hours, holiday and pension compare? Are you glade you change job?
If the cap does not fit do not wear it.
Imagine you had not been such a hard worker but more of a party animal just think of the level of debt you would have had when of left uni.
Those are the people my comment was aimed at.
As for the long hours when ~~I did my first cruise as an engineering cadet we were lucky to get the second dog watch off (4 hours sleep on a good day) so do not think that trainee teachers are the only ones to go short on sleep, just ask any new mum about sleep deprivation.
Anyway what are you doing now instead of teaching? How do the pay, hours, holiday and pension compare? Are you glade you change job?
emmylou83, Stratton says...
2:00pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Well I came out of uni with a £1600 overdraft and £15k of student loan to pay back.
Work in an office now, pay sucks compared to teaching but 9-5 no weekends and no stress (well until the work load piles up over the summer.) I have never been happier work wise. I love my job (not many people can say that)
And I wasnt suggesting that trainee teachers are the only ones going without sleep its just having been there I know how hard and stressful it can be our course leader told us not to get jobs coz we wouldnt be able to do it all and my god she was right!!
Work in an office now, pay sucks compared to teaching but 9-5 no weekends and no stress (well until the work load piles up over the summer.) I have never been happier work wise. I love my job (not many people can say that)
And I wasnt suggesting that trainee teachers are the only ones going without sleep its just having been there I know how hard and stressful it can be our course leader told us not to get jobs coz we wouldnt be able to do it all and my god she was right!!
Voice of Sanity, Swindon says...
2:08pm Mon 11 Feb 08
If you allocate teachers' pay to the number of hours they work then they are not onto such a good deal.
The average teacher gets to school each day at 7:30am and works through til at least 5pm - preparation, after school and lunch clubs, staff meetings etc. They will then need to do more work at home; lesson planning, record keeping, assessment etc.
Teachers' pay is based on a 25 hour working week (ie. 9am to 3pm less an hour for lunch). So double the 25 hours and then calculate hourly pay - far more realistic.
The average teacher gets to school each day at 7:30am and works through til at least 5pm - preparation, after school and lunch clubs, staff meetings etc. They will then need to do more work at home; lesson planning, record keeping, assessment etc.
Teachers' pay is based on a 25 hour working week (ie. 9am to 3pm less an hour for lunch). So double the 25 hours and then calculate hourly pay - far more realistic.
PJC, Old Town says...
2:23pm Mon 11 Feb 08
angry monkey wrote:Get massive holidays eh? Yes, but they don't get ANY choice as to when they take them, and they are all in peak periods. Also I suppose you think they start at 8:30 and knock off at 3:30pm? Twit.
-In my experience most teachers that taught me were rubbish.
-they get massive holidays
- most young people struggle to get on the property ladder these days. teachers are no worse off than anyone else.
- my (and most other peoples) pay rises in the private sector are less than inflation. Tough.
PJC, Old Town says...
2:33pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Why is this thread starting to sound strangely like the Monty Python Yorkshireman sketch? Talk about black dog.(sigh)
Casual Observer, Swindon says...
3:01pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Teaching is a very difficult and stressful job - I know firsthand - and much of the hard work is as a result of lazy and stupid parents.
Some poor kids are fed on junk food, allowed up late watching rubbish on the telly, taught from an early age to swear and have no respect for anyone.
Teachers then have to try to 'repair' this somehow when they are half-asleep the next morning.
emmylou you speak wisely - I say give them more pay , more holidays, smaller classes and less bureaucracy.
Some poor kids are fed on junk food, allowed up late watching rubbish on the telly, taught from an early age to swear and have no respect for anyone.
Teachers then have to try to 'repair' this somehow when they are half-asleep the next morning.
emmylou you speak wisely - I say give them more pay , more holidays, smaller classes and less bureaucracy.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
3:06pm Mon 11 Feb 08
smaller classes are fab, reception classes are normally alot smaller say 16 pupils than others 30+ sometimes. I think that should stay right through the school yrs.
I agree with the swearing from an early age the first time a 5 yr old tells you to f off is an eye opener for sure.
I agree with the swearing from an early age the first time a 5 yr old tells you to f off is an eye opener for sure.
SwindonBorn, Swindon says...
3:11pm Mon 11 Feb 08
My family are teachers so I have a lot of time for the profession but striking is not the answer.
Life is tough in the real world and teachers will have to learn to cope like everyone else.
The real culprit is the Government who simply throws money at iniative after iniative and expect teachers to be parents, police and doctors all at the save time rather than letting schools get on and do their job.
Life is tough in the real world and teachers will have to learn to cope like everyone else.
The real culprit is the Government who simply throws money at iniative after iniative and expect teachers to be parents, police and doctors all at the save time rather than letting schools get on and do their job.
Grumpy, Swindon says...
3:19pm Mon 11 Feb 08
SwindonBorn wrote:Don't forget the never ending sets of 'targets' this government keeps imposing on all public sector workers, plus the continual testing of children that serves no real useful purpose what-so-ever.
My family are teachers so I have a lot of time for the profession but striking is not the answer.
Life is tough in the real world and teachers will have to learn to cope like everyone else.
The real culprit is the Government who simply throws money at iniative after iniative and expect teachers to be parents, police and doctors all at the save time rather than letting schools get on and do their job.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
3:19pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Don't forget the never ending sets of 'targets' this government keeps imposing on all public sector workers, plus the continual testing of children that serves no real useful purpose what-so-ever.
It will become clear soon. Just watch for the barcodes on peoples necks, and all will become clear...
emmylou83, Stratton says...
3:23pm Mon 11 Feb 08
plus the continual testing of children that serves no real useful purpose what-so-ever.
Grumpy for once I agree with you, the pressure put on yr 2 children when they do their SATs is unreal a 6/7yr old should not be stressing out over exams!! Esp wehn they are allowed no help and some can't write properly
Emohawk, Swindon says...
3:40pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Casual Observer, emmylou and PJC - I agree with your comments. Teachers do have to try and sort out the "bad" kids but with not being able to enforce discipline without risking an assault charge, they have a tough job to do. Also, like PJC says teachers have to take their holidays at the same time as the kids - not much of a break either as they are marking coursework and doing lesson plans etc. It's also not just young teachers who suffer with student debt - anyone who goes back to university to re-train in a new career can suffer from this.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
3:45pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Emohawk,
I never said I didnt agree with the other comments I was just defending against what the others were saying, I do believe I mentioned that teachers don't get the holidays to themselves as some may think.
I never said it was just young people who ended up with debt but as the article is about teaching I thought I'd stick with the subject is all.
I never said I didnt agree with the other comments I was just defending against what the others were saying, I do believe I mentioned that teachers don't get the holidays to themselves as some may think.
I never said it was just young people who ended up with debt but as the article is about teaching I thought I'd stick with the subject is all.
Emohawk, Swindon says...
4:09pm Mon 11 Feb 08
emmylou, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was making a general comment about some valid points that were made. There is no need to be so defensive, I think teachers do a great job considering the pressure that they are under and I just think they should be rewarded accordingly. I know that many people think teachers get long holidays, but I live with one so I know this is not the case.
madamspud169, Kempsford, Swindon says...
4:12pm Mon 11 Feb 08
At least they got a payrise, neither my husband nor myself did.
There are some teachers who shouldn't be teaching let alone getting a pay rise. It took me over a decade to start to recover from the emotional abuse I went through with one teacher.
There are some teachers who shouldn't be teaching let alone getting a pay rise. It took me over a decade to start to recover from the emotional abuse I went through with one teacher.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:16pm Mon 11 Feb 08
madamspud169 wrote:There are bad apples in every batch, but that's hardly fair to deny the rest of them a decent pay rise (i.e. in line with inflation).
At least they got a payrise, neither my husband nor myself did. There are some teachers who shouldn't be teaching let alone getting a pay rise. It took me over a decade to start to recover from the emotional abuse I went through with one teacher.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
4:17pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Emohawk
Ok sorry didn't mean to get all defensive just does my nut when people dont understand the pressures of teaching and the pressure of training to be one too - obviously you know where I'm coming from
Ok sorry didn't mean to get all defensive just does my nut when people dont understand the pressures of teaching and the pressure of training to be one too - obviously you know where I'm coming from
Rob, swindon says...
4:23pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Why do so many young people train to be teachers, if the the pay is so poor ?
Oxford, Toothill says...
4:26pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Having read all the comments above, it seems as the anti teacher brigade are very ignorant, selfish, or were the typical obnoxious problem child at school who's parents didn't discipline them for the correct reasons. I also had some crap teachers and hated, loathed and detested school. I also have to take some small part of the blame for having a bad education, but my biggest grievance isn't with the teachers, because all they were doing was a stressful job in difficult circumstances, and they didn't have time to spend with someone like me who had learning and other difficulties. My grievance is with the education authorities who put every obsticle in my way, which prevented me from going to college and taking any further education through the system that was set up to help the other kids. I have however undertaken one or two college courses and 4 or 5 years ago an Open University foundation course, and these have been at great expense to me.
Teachers have had a bad press for along time and a lot of the things that are said about them isn't actually true, because they take a lot of work home with them, and yes they do work through half terms. As for the long summer holiday, Christmas and Easter breaks which would add up to about 8 weeks holiday a year, I think they deserve it, and so does every other worker. The technology is in place, companies make masses of profits every year which go into very few pockets, and there are masses of unemployed people out there, that need the money, who could be channeled into the opened vacancies. Everybody should be supporting the teachers over this issue, because if MPs can vote to award themselves over inflated raises in their already exorbitant rates of pay, then the rest of us should be allowed to have a decent raise in the megre pittances that we are paid.
Teachers have had a bad press for along time and a lot of the things that are said about them isn't actually true, because they take a lot of work home with them, and yes they do work through half terms. As for the long summer holiday, Christmas and Easter breaks which would add up to about 8 weeks holiday a year, I think they deserve it, and so does every other worker. The technology is in place, companies make masses of profits every year which go into very few pockets, and there are masses of unemployed people out there, that need the money, who could be channeled into the opened vacancies. Everybody should be supporting the teachers over this issue, because if MPs can vote to award themselves over inflated raises in their already exorbitant rates of pay, then the rest of us should be allowed to have a decent raise in the megre pittances that we are paid.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
4:26pm Mon 11 Feb 08
the pay isnt that bad well I dont think my friends who teach in central london get £25k depending on where you live depends on what you get paid, at least thats how it used to be
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:28pm Mon 11 Feb 08
emmylou83 wrote:That's called danger money.
the pay isnt that bad well I dont think my friends who teach in central london get £25k depending on where you live depends on what you get paid, at least thats how it used to be
If I were teaching in London, I'd want over-the-odds as well.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:31pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Rob wrote:"Making a difference" - same reason I want to go into politics.
Why do so many young people train to be teachers, if the the pay is so poor ?
I'd have to grease myself up first, I'm nowhere near slimy enough for the likes of the Bottler and his cronies.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
4:32pm Mon 11 Feb 08
lordb very funny, I trained in london and the schools i taught at in swindon are just as bad
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:36pm Mon 11 Feb 08
emmylou83 wrote:Well, yeah, you did Oaktree - may as well do a tour of duty in Afghanistan, would be the proper comparison. One of the punks from that school put 3 windows in on our car (cost: £160 minimum) this weekend. We have two witnesses, but I can guarantee that he'll be too young to be prosecuted.
lordb very funny, I trained in london and the schools i taught at in swindon are just as bad
I may need to find myself a school for assassins, and keep shooting until we get a decent PM.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
4:40pm Mon 11 Feb 08
I did oaktree, mountford, freshbrook, penhill, pinehurst (went there for 2days that was more than enough.
Cant blame the teachers for it tho hun, not their fault
Cant blame the teachers for it tho hun, not their fault
Emohawk, Swindon says...
4:41pm Mon 11 Feb 08
emmylou83 wrote:I know what you mean hun - anyone who goes into teaching deserves a medal :-)
Emohawk Ok sorry didn't mean to get all defensive just does my nut when people dont understand the pressures of teaching and the pressure of training to be one too - obviously you know where I'm coming from
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
4:46pm Mon 11 Feb 08
emmylou83 wrote:Oaktree, Penhill, and Pinehurst - that'd explain it ;)
I did oaktree, mountford, freshbrook, penhill, pinehurst (went there for 2days that was more than enough. Cant blame the teachers for it tho hun, not their fault
I don't blame the teachers mind, I can appreciate it's a **** job most of the time, especially if you're at the aforementioned schools.
emmylou83, Stratton says...
4:49pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Emohawk wrote:yeah sometime wish I had the guts to stick it out but I look at my life then and my life now and I'm so much happier even if a bit poorer.
emmylou83 wrote: Emohawk Ok sorry didn't mean to get all defensive just does my nut when people dont understand the pressures of teaching and the pressure of training to be one too - obviously you know where I'm coming fromI know what you mean hun - anyone who goes into teaching deserves a medal :-)
Claire, Swindon says...
5:37pm Mon 11 Feb 08
I am a civil servent working for the cental Government in Swindon. I am still waiting for last years pay rise. The DTI are still in talks with the different unions, so we will hopefully get a below inflation pay rise by the end of this financial year (when the next one is due!!) This happens every year, which I think is disgusting. My husband and worked for the same company for 15 years in the private sector and hasnt had a pay rise for the last four! With the bills and mortages keep going up and no extra money coming in, I suggest the teachers do as my husband and I have done and get part time jobs. I work four evenings a week and my husband works one day at the weekend. That way we dont have to pay for the extra child care and the mortgage gets paid on time.
Donkey, Swindon says...
5:43pm Mon 11 Feb 08
LordBelacqua wrote:The first hurdle is actually getting the support of the electorate ... clever (as you think it is) through jibes and name-calling, it is hardly likely to win friends and the required votes.
Rob wrote: Why do so many young people train to be teachers, if the the pay is so poor ?"Making a difference" - same reason I want to go into politics. I'd have to grease myself up first, I'm nowhere near slimy enough for the likes of the Bottler and his cronies.
Unlike the thoughts of Chairman B Mc ,just because more anti-Government types write on here of negatives, it does not follow that they will be in the majority they perceive!
Donkey, Swindon says...
5:51pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Back to the subject ... I was a school governor when my daughters were at Hreod during the 80s. From what I realised, teaching pay scales were not that bad at the lower end of the entry, and absolutely fantastic at headmaster level!
There are many, many worse professions, paying well below teaching rates.
Okay, it's a mentally straining occupation, but apparently it's the survival of the fittest. I do wish them well, but their lot is not so unbearable as to be treated as lower paid special cases, in my humble view.
I could never be a teacher, myself, I would end up smacking one of the little so and sos in double quick time ... something the parents should be allowed to do. Can't see as it ever hurt anyone to be put in their place.
There are many, many worse professions, paying well below teaching rates.
Okay, it's a mentally straining occupation, but apparently it's the survival of the fittest. I do wish them well, but their lot is not so unbearable as to be treated as lower paid special cases, in my humble view.
I could never be a teacher, myself, I would end up smacking one of the little so and sos in double quick time ... something the parents should be allowed to do. Can't see as it ever hurt anyone to be put in their place.
Teacher, Swindon says...
5:51pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Amazing how ignorant some people in this thread are. I can not believe those of you that think what you're writing is in any way helpful or productive.
Let me set the record straight (as I see it). I work a 50 hour week, this excludes work I do at the weekend - which often runs into 3-4 hours as least. Half Terms are used for assessments, planning and preparation for future work - so little free time there. The article (for those who actually read it) clearly states that the few rises we have had are all below inflation. Some of the comments refer to uni students with debts - is this specific to teaching students? If you feel it is, that shows how little you actually know. The fact that teaching students attend more lectures than most limits free time for extra work, although I know of many students who do work extra (I was one of them).
To sum up with: The min. wage for the UK is £5.25. I've been teaching for 6 years and my hourly pay (if you base it on a 50 hour week excl. weekends) is £8.10. Is £3 an hour worth the extra hassle, work, expectations and everything else that goes with teaching?? (and that's £3 based on the fact that I've been teaching for 6 years - NQTs are on a lot less)
Let me set the record straight (as I see it). I work a 50 hour week, this excludes work I do at the weekend - which often runs into 3-4 hours as least. Half Terms are used for assessments, planning and preparation for future work - so little free time there. The article (for those who actually read it) clearly states that the few rises we have had are all below inflation. Some of the comments refer to uni students with debts - is this specific to teaching students? If you feel it is, that shows how little you actually know. The fact that teaching students attend more lectures than most limits free time for extra work, although I know of many students who do work extra (I was one of them).
To sum up with: The min. wage for the UK is £5.25. I've been teaching for 6 years and my hourly pay (if you base it on a 50 hour week excl. weekends) is £8.10. Is £3 an hour worth the extra hassle, work, expectations and everything else that goes with teaching?? (and that's £3 based on the fact that I've been teaching for 6 years - NQTs are on a lot less)
dalekdave, Swindon says...
6:16pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Teaching is a hard job and during term time, I know teachers work longer hours than most would recognise. But please teachers, you have very long summer holidays (even discounting the others)- don't try and kid us otherwise. I know plenty of teachers and they all agree on this.
With respect to starting pay of £20k - well it's starting pay, not finishing pay - far more interesting would be what a teacher gets say after 5 yrs.
Having said all of this; this country needs new enthusiastic teachers like never before. We know society is falling apart at the moment; whilst measures to deal with the anti social little yobs that are out there now is needed, clearly the aim must be to educate kids so that they don't behave like that.
Bottom line is, if people dont want to become, or dont stay, teachers for long then we are in big trouble.
Instead of comparing the salaries of teachers to squaddies or coppers (all of whom contribute to society in one form or another), how about comparing them to the city fat cats (who only seem to drag the country down when they get nervous about something).
With respect to starting pay of £20k - well it's starting pay, not finishing pay - far more interesting would be what a teacher gets say after 5 yrs.
Having said all of this; this country needs new enthusiastic teachers like never before. We know society is falling apart at the moment; whilst measures to deal with the anti social little yobs that are out there now is needed, clearly the aim must be to educate kids so that they don't behave like that.
Bottom line is, if people dont want to become, or dont stay, teachers for long then we are in big trouble.
Instead of comparing the salaries of teachers to squaddies or coppers (all of whom contribute to society in one form or another), how about comparing them to the city fat cats (who only seem to drag the country down when they get nervous about something).
Gem, North Swindon says...
6:48pm Mon 11 Feb 08
When teachers are assaulted on a daily basis (I know two who are) then I can't imagine why anyone would stay in the profession - pay rise or not....
Gem, North Swindon says...
6:49pm Mon 11 Feb 08
When teachers are assaulted on a daily basis (I know two who are) then I can't imagine why anyone would stay in the profession - pay rise or not....
Casual Observer, Swindon says...
8:46pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Claire wrote:I found an excellent way of getting pay rises in previous private sector jobs, perhaps you could pass this on to your husband;
I am a civil servent working for the cental Government in Swindon. I am still waiting for last years pay rise. The DTI are still in talks with the different unions, so we will hopefully get a below inflation pay rise by the end of this financial year (when the next one is due!!) This happens every year, which I think is disgusting. My husband and worked for the same company for 15 years in the private sector and hasnt had a pay rise for the last four! With the bills and mortages keep going up and no extra money coming in, I suggest the teachers do as my husband and I have done and get part time jobs. I work four evenings a week and my husband works one day at the weekend. That way we dont have to pay for the extra child care and the mortgage gets paid on time.
What I did each time was, I went in to see the boss and I asked for a pay rise.
Licnep, Swindon/Chester says...
9:23pm Mon 11 Feb 08
Teacher wrote:I'm sure your not the only one at all!!! My Mum is a primary school teacher and people have said its a good job as she gets holidays off...this however is not the case.
Amazing how ignorant some people in this thread are. I can not believe those of you that think what you're writing is in any way helpful or productive. Let me set the record straight (as I see it). I work a 50 hour week, this excludes work I do at the weekend - which often runs into 3-4 hours as least. Half Terms are used for assessments, planning and preparation for future work - so little free time there. The article (for those who actually read it) clearly states that the few rises we have had are all below inflation. Some of the comments refer to uni students with debts - is this specific to teaching students? If you feel it is, that shows how little you actually know. The fact that teaching students attend more lectures than most limits free time for extra work, although I know of many students who do work extra (I was one of them). To sum up with: The min. wage for the UK is £5.25. I've been teaching for 6 years and my hourly pay (if you base it on a 50 hour week excl. weekends) is £8.10. Is £3 an hour worth the extra hassle, work, expectations and everything else that goes with teaching?? (and that's £3 based on the fact that I've been teaching for 6 years - NQTs are on a lot less)
She is constantly working stupidly long hour days often leaving for work at 7:30am and not stopping again till 11pm. This doesn't mean she has weekends/half terms/summer holidays at all she is constantly working. I have been put off the profession all together from seeing how much is expected and how many teachers are treated with constant targets being set but no rewards from completing them.
I think not many people have noted that teachers do amazing jobs and they stay in the profession because they care about children being educated!
Big Mac, says...
8:54am Tue 12 Feb 08
Education, education, education.
It's simple folks. Everything's actually going very well out there because Labour said they'd sort out schools and education and I, for one, am convinced that they have.
Our children are all brighter than ever and teachers are very happy and well paid.
Crime is going down too.
In fact, it's hard to think how anything could even get any better than it already is.
Crime is also going down.
These teachers are all just evil Tories, out to make the government look bad by moaning and striking.
Pay no attention to them and never forget: everything is perfect.
And, the best thing is, crime's going down.
This public service announcement was brought to you by the Government Ministry of Complete Lies.
It's simple folks. Everything's actually going very well out there because Labour said they'd sort out schools and education and I, for one, am convinced that they have.
Our children are all brighter than ever and teachers are very happy and well paid.
Crime is going down too.
In fact, it's hard to think how anything could even get any better than it already is.
Crime is also going down.
These teachers are all just evil Tories, out to make the government look bad by moaning and striking.
Pay no attention to them and never forget: everything is perfect.
And, the best thing is, crime's going down.
This public service announcement was brought to you by the Government Ministry of Complete Lies.
Donkey, Swindon says...
9:18am Tue 12 Feb 08
More electionairing ... and sooo early in the morning by the' NON-political', unattached to any party, Big Mac ... yawn ... yawn again ...
Here, I wonder if you will be Republican or Democrat when you leave the country you love to hate so deeply? Even the Yanks hate whoever they put in charge as soon as the honeymoon period is over ... then what are you gonna do? Come back to the UK, I guess, Pardner??
Here, I wonder if you will be Republican or Democrat when you leave the country you love to hate so deeply? Even the Yanks hate whoever they put in charge as soon as the honeymoon period is over ... then what are you gonna do? Come back to the UK, I guess, Pardner??
Al Smith, Swindon, UK says...
9:51am Tue 12 Feb 08
So what if teachers have long summer holidays. Even when you take into account the 6 week summer hols teachers will work an average of 44 hours a week. Which is more than the average working week in the UK of 40 hours.
Big Mac, says...
10:00am Tue 12 Feb 08
Donkey, don't demean yourself. You know full well that I am not affiliated to any political party.
It just makes me laugh when we've had a so called 'Labour' party in power for 10 years and the police and teachers are threatening strikes. Nothing much changes eh?
Yes, I detest what Labour have done to this country - what sane person wouldn't - but that does not automatically make me a 'Tory', although I'm sure it probably does in your world.
Just because you blindly follow a party doesn't mean we all do. Maybe you should be a little more honest and state that you were once a Labour councillor? Kind of gives your game away, although it's quite strange you still support the very party that treated you so shabbily. Still, what would one expect from Labour?
It just makes me laugh when we've had a so called 'Labour' party in power for 10 years and the police and teachers are threatening strikes. Nothing much changes eh?
Yes, I detest what Labour have done to this country - what sane person wouldn't - but that does not automatically make me a 'Tory', although I'm sure it probably does in your world.
Just because you blindly follow a party doesn't mean we all do. Maybe you should be a little more honest and state that you were once a Labour councillor? Kind of gives your game away, although it's quite strange you still support the very party that treated you so shabbily. Still, what would one expect from Labour?
angry monkey, Swindon says...
1:48pm Tue 12 Feb 08
I'm bloody sick of the army of public servants and their non stop whinging.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
1:52pm Tue 12 Feb 08
angry monkey wrote:O.o
I'm bloody sick of the army of public servants and their non stop whinging.
Suppose you'd rather corporations take care of education then?
Not that we're not approaching that stage already, mind.
Mick out West, West Swindon says...
2:13pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Al Smith wrote:Do the Teachers have the same holidays as the kid's. 6 weeks in the Summer, 2 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter, and 1 week every 6 weeks in between = approx 14/15 weeks holidays per year, if this is so and they are all paid, cant be to bad surely.
So what if teachers have long summer holidays. Even when you take into account the 6 week summer hols teachers will work an average of 44 hours a week. Which is more than the average working week in the UK of 40 hours.
LordBelacqua, Swindon says...
2:20pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Mick out West wrote:But they work through their holidays and before and after the school day - homework and coursework don't mark themselves.
Al Smith wrote: So what if teachers have long summer holidays. Even when you take into account the 6 week summer hols teachers will work an average of 44 hours a week. Which is more than the average working week in the UK of 40 hours.Do the Teachers have the same holidays as the kid's. 6 weeks in the Summer, 2 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter, and 1 week every 6 weeks in between = approx 14/15 weeks holidays per year, if this is so and they are all paid, cant be to bad surely.
It's all very well saying "they've got 14 weeks holiday, it's not too bad", but you've got to consider how much of that holiday is spent planning lessons, making sure homework and coursework is marked, etc., as these are often not done in school hours but at home.
john c, swindon says...
12:24pm Mon 11 Feb 08
You are Already Well Paid.
£20,000 a year for a NQT compare that to £15,667 as a newly trained army private serving in Iraq.
I suppose you think a class load of kids with attitude are harder work than terrorist with bombs.